Just a picture of this book triggers gaytheists.

>>139024326
Jesus never existed. There is no proof that he was real.

>>139024435
stay in your lane faggot. historical studies are important and don't need tainting from /pol

wtf I'm triggered now.

Why would be triggered from childrens' fairytail books?

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>>139024435
Fuck off

>>139024435
>>139024691
>being a sodomite
Hell is for ever!

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>>139024435
>triggered gaytheist
I was right

>>139025031
I never had sex though.

>>139024326
The holy jewish book of goy enslavement

God condemned sodom(y)

>>139024435
like clockwork proving OP right

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>>139025137
You're still a reprobate

>>139025406
Hell isn't real.

Is Bible worth reading? Does it have interesting stories or something like that?

>>139025812
Yeah it has stories of how the Roman Flavian dynasty wanted slaves and Jews to stop rebelling that contradict each other because they were written by multiple Jews, each paid to be traitors of the Judean state by the Roman emperor.

>>139024326
Im athiest and i own a boble.

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>>139025638
says a fag

>>139025919
You do realize animals know God is there right? They can't communicate with us, but they know the maker better then we do....

>>139025812
Yes but it does get a bit boring during leviticus. ifnore sodomites like >>139025993

>>139025638
Proof?

>>139026198
probably not. Animals only role is to serve man

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>>139026368
Proof that it is real?

Why is it that atheists claim to have historian-level knowledge of history yet never once have even a shred of evidence backing up their claims?

Why is it that atheists hate the Bible, but have never even read the first page?

Why is it that atheists are strawmanning liberal retards who cannot put forth proper arguments?

Every time you argue with one, they'll retreat to cherrypicking strawmans and acting smug, it's like they can never actually listen to your argument, because they are delusional.

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>>139026515

>>139026515
No, you said hell is not real.

Proof?

>>139026515
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:15

>>139024435
yes yes we know, the most common male name at the said time of "Jesus'', was yeshua and no historian of that time wrote about any famous yeshua dying on a cross.. But you gotta understand, the christian RE-Legion, and the mysterious Holy Bible are two different things. ;)

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Are atheists capable of any rational thought outside of strawmans and pseudo-nihilism?

>>139027107
You.....do realize that historians write about the past, yes?

>>139027186
There are contemporary accounts of Caesar but not the guy who supposedly founded the mysterious religion that happens to include elements of Caesarian emperor worship.

>>139024326
>Posting sandnigger religion
Ban christianity in Europe please

>>139027271
So Caesar, the ruler of the entire world, has people writing down every day what he does, but a homeless wandering rabbi in occupied Israel does not.

By Jove, I think you may be on to something!

>>139025812
Read both Chronicles, which how Israelits decayed, exactly like Western society nowadays

>>139027271
>>139027680

There are accounts from Roman documents of Jesus, King of the Jews.

There are hundreds of accounts from the saints who followed him as well.

If you knew even the slightest speck of history you would understand this, but you don't and speak out of your ass, pretending you are superior and know anything at all.

Atheism is born of ignorance, nothing more. And the very notion that Atheism is actually enlightenment is unfathomable and hilariously idiotic.

>>139027898
Apparently my sarcasm escaped you.....

>>139027898
Please link to the Roman documents that mentioned Jesus specifically and were not (((edited))) by later Christians.

>>139028284
Please prove they were edited by later Christians first.

Because you obviously must know of them to make that assertion.

>>139028284
I have a serious question for you.

You want nothing to do with God. I get that, you get that, God gets that.

So God has prepared a place for you where you will never, ever, ever have to have anything to do with Him, forever and ever.

Why are you bitching about getting what you want?

>>139028361
Which documents are you referring to?

>>139028489
I don't have an issue with the concept of God. I have an issue with the historicity of Jesus.

>>139028489
Are you implying people in hell are seperated from God? Because that's wrong.
John3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

>>139028742
You'll find that you're in a very small group of ignorant people then.

>>139028762
>Are you implying people in hell are seperated from God? Because that's wrong.

Yes, of course. What do you think "second death" means?

>>139025812
It is the story of how the absolute philosophy came to be, in flesh.

The new testament is literally the greatest collection of books ever.

>>139024435
>Thallus 52AD
Tacitus 56-120AD
>Mara Bar-Serapion 70AD
Phlegon 80-140AD
>Pliny 61-113 AD
Suetonius 69-140AD
>Lucian of Samosta 115-200AD
Josephus 37-101AD

>>139028922
They die a second time. They aren't seperated from God because he is the one torturing them

>>139024435

Is Atheism a faith based religion

>>139029053
http://www.academia.edu/10463098/Josephus_s_Testimonium_Flavianum_Examined_Linguistically_Greek_Analysis_Demonstrates_the_Passage_a_Forgery_In_Toto

>>139029130
Ok - remove Josephus from the list. Still got plenty more non-Biblical references.

>>139029136
Sometime before 117 AD, the Roman historian apparently wrote:

"Nero looked around for a scapegoat, and inflicted the most fiendish tortures on a group of persons already hated for their crimes. This was the sect known as Christians. Their founder, one Christus, had been put to death by the procurator, Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. This checked the abominable superstition for a while, but it broke out again and spread, not merely through Judea, where it originated, but even to Rome itself, the great reservoir and collecting ground for every kind of depravity and filth. Those who confessed to being Christians were at once arrested, but on their testimony a great crowd of people were convicted, not so much on the charge of arson, but of hatred of the entire human race.

Their deaths were made farcical. Dressed in wild animals' skins , they were torn to pieces by dogs, or crucified, or made into torches to be ignited after dark as substitutes for daylight."

– Tacitus (Book 15, chapter 44):


As we have seen, the term 'Christian' was not in use during the reign of Nero and there would not have been 'a great crowd' unless we are speaking of Jews, not Christians. 'Jewish/Christians' – being perceived by Roman authorities (and the populace at large) simply as Jews meant that early Christ-followers also got caught up in general attacks upon the Jews.

"Their effects to dissemble their Jewish origins were detected by the decisive test of circumcision; nor were the Roman magistrates at leisure to enquire into the difference of their religious tenets."

– Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall)

>>139029244
One consequence of the fire which destroyed much of Rome in 64 AD was a capitation tax levied on the Jews and it was the Jews – throughout the empire – who were required to pay for the city’s rebuilding – a factor which helped to radicalise many Jews in the late 60s AD.

Not for the first time would Christian scribes expropriated the real suffering of a whole people to create an heroic 'origins' fable...

No Christian apologist for centuries ever quoted the passage of Tacitus – not in fact, until it had appeared almost word-for-word in the writings of Sulpicius Severus, in the early fifth century, where it is mixed in with other myths. Sulpicius's contemporaries credited him with a skill in the 'antique' hand. He put it to good use and fantasy was his forte: his Life of St. Martin is replete with numerous 'miracles', including raising of the dead and personal appearances by Jesus and Satan.

His dastardly story of Nero was embellished during the Renaissance into a fantastic fable with Nero 'fiddling while Rome burned'. Nero took advantage of the destruction to build his 'Golden House' though no serious scholar believes anymore that he started the fire (we now know Nero was in his hometown of Antium – Anzio – when the blaze started.) Indeed, Nero opened his palace garden for temporary shelter to those made homeless.

In short, the passage in Tacitus is a fraud and adds no evidence for a historic Jesus.

>>139029136
Nowhere in any of Suetonius's writings does he mention 'Jesus of Nazareth.' Suetonius did write a biography called Twelve Caesars around the year 112 AD and of Emperor Claudius he says:

"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."


Jesus in Rome in 54 AD? Of course not. But the unwary can be misled by this reference.

'Chrestus' does not equate to 'Christ' in English but to 'the good' in Greek (and for a definitive study of the manuscript evidence see here). It was a name used by both slaves and freemen and is attested more than eighty times in Latin inscriptions. Clearly, Suetonius was explaining why the Jews (not Christians) were expelled from Rome and is referring to a Jewish agitator in the 50s – not to a Galilean pacifist of the 30s. Yet even this report is questionable. The historian Cassius Dio gives a more convincing account of the same Claudian "expulsion":

"As for the Jews, who had again increased so greatly that by reason of their multitude it would have been hard without raising a tumult to bar them from the city, he did not drive them out, but ordered them, while continuing their traditional mode of life, not to hold meetings." – Roman History, 60.6.


It is also said that Suetonius, in his Life of Nero, described Nero's persecution of the Christians:

'Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief ...' (16.2)


We have moved from 'rebellious Jews' to 'mischievous Christians'.

>>139028742
Josephus: Testimonium Flavianum, Book 20, Ch. 9, part 1:

...so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned...

Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

Annals, book XV:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

Suetonius (c. A.D. 69 - c. A.D. 140)

Lives of the Caesars - Claudius, sec. 25:

Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.

>>139029136
Around 112 AD, in correspondence between Emperor Trajan and the provincial governor of Pontus/Bithynia, Pliny the Younger, reference is made to Christians for the first time. Pliny famously reports to his emperor:

"Christians ... asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so." – Pliny to Trajan, Letters 10.96-97.


Note that Pliny is relaying what those arrested said they believed (and there is no reference here to a 'Jesus.')

Pliny had convened trials of Christians, not because of their beliefs but because he had 'forbidden political associations' which he obviously suspected them of forming. He continues:

"Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition."


Some of those arrested recanted, worshipped the imperial image and state gods, and cursed Christ. But Pliny is uncertain how to proceed with numerous others in what he describes as a widespread 'contagion' and asks Trajan for guidance. Trajan's celebrated reply is:

"They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it -- that is, by worshiping our gods -- even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance."

>>139029406


Is the exchange of letters genuine?

It's worth noting that unlike the 247 letters Pliny himself prepared for publication (so-called books 1-9), book 10, which contains the celebrated letters "96" and "97", was published posthumously and anonymously. "It is surprising," says Betty Radice (translator of the Penguin edition), "that no more letters were to be found in the imperial files or among Pliny's personal papers to add to this record of the relations between one of the best of Rome's Emperors and his devoted servant." On the other hand, Tertullian (c. 160-220 AD) discusses the letter and refers to Trajan's reply in his Apology, chapter 2, which suggests authenticity:

" We find that even inquiry in regard to our case is forbidden. For the younger Pliny, when he was ruler of a province, having condemned some Christians to death, and driven some from their stedfastness, being still annoyed by their great numbers, at last sought the advice of Trajan, the reigning emperor ..."

>>139029136
All this picture makes me want to know is, anyone here tried Sonic Mania yet? Is it any good?

>>139029244
>As we have seen, the term 'Christian' was not in use
The Bible doean't even call Christians "Christians" most of the time. They're almost always called "saints"

>>139029426
Pliny was a lawyer in Rome before going to the east. He was only a child when the "persecution of Christians by Nero" supposedly took place but his guardian Verginius Rufus was a high-placed commander at the time, loyal to Nero. Following Nero's suicide, Rufus actually declined an offer from the army of the Rhine to become emperor himself. Any "lurid massacre" of Christians, if it had taken place, could have been told to Pliny as a child – but in later life he recalls no such thing.

At the age of 17 Pliny inherited his uncle's extensive estates after the elder Pliny died in the eruption of Vesuvius. Rich and talented, and with impeccable connections to the highest echelons of the Roman state, Pliny began a distinguished career. He served on the imperial staff in Syria, a centre – one is led to believe – of energetic Christian activity, but again it left no mark on Pliny.

>>139029076
God is Life.
To be separated from God is to be dead.
Most people reading this are dead.
The second death is eternal separation from God, Who is Life.
The second death is eternal torment in a lake of fire.
Nobody is monitoring this eternal lake of fire; it's a confinement system and it will perform as created.

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>>139024435
I agree with the faggot. The best historical documentation of Christinsanity comes from Tacitus. Tacitus merely mentioned a Jewish cult of Christinsanus. But that's not proof that Jesus existed. However, it is proof that Jews created Christinsanity.

>>139029426
Rising rapidly through the ranks of quaestor, tribune and praetor, while still in his thirties the bright young aristocrat was appointed state prosecutor at four major public trials of provincial governors. Such a career would have made any incumbent aware of "persecution" of Christians, if indeed there had ever been any such thing. But Pliny reports none of it.

Pliny survived the persecution of the Stoic opposition during the reign of Domitian (81-96). The emperor actually made him a senator, even though several of Pliny's Stoic friends were executed. Subsequently Pliny went on to become consul, state priest, and finally, governor of Bithynia-Pontus.

Curious, is it not, that such a well-placed, well-educated Roman grandee, directly and intimately involved in the Roman judicial system at the highest levels, and a friend of historians Tacitus and Suetonius, should – in the second decade of the 2nd century – remain so ignorant of Christians and the persecution of them – unless, that is, they were nothing other than an obscure, and insignificant bunch of fanatics and the "persecution" is a fable?

"Having never been present at any trials concerning those persons who are Christians, I am unacquainted not only with the nature of their crimes, or the measure of their punishment, but how far it is proper to enter into an examination concerning them."

>>139024435
Bart Erhman literally wrote a book to answer you r/atheist accusations about Jesus existence. It's historical fact Jesus existed, virtually all serious scholars attest to this. The details of his life are debated over, but the fact that he existed is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CC7qNZkOE

>>139029510
One of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on humanity is the reference to Nero’s persecution of Christians in the “Annales” of Tacitus.

This is supposedly the earliest reference to Christianity by a non-Roman writer and it’s actually the source that is generally appealed to for attestation of the historical Jesus, given that Pliny’s letter (which I also demonstrated to be a forgery) was written earlier but doesn’t specifically reference Jesus, or at least a historical Jesus. As such, you’ll find that anti-mythicists are EXTREMELY aggressive in using insults and ad hominem attacks to defend the authenticity of the passage, which might dissuade many people from thinking that it’s a forgery.

But, as usual, the arguments of the apologists turn out to be just a smokescreen. I regret to inform Christians everywhere that the evidence in support of the authenticity of the passage is as follows:

1. “The passage is in perfect Tacitean style”. Response: I guess apologists assume that Christian monks during the Middle Ages were so incompetent that they couldn’t figure out how to emulate the style of the writers they were copying.

2. “It appears in every known copy of the Annals.” Response: there are only two copies of the Annals in existence, both written at Monte Cassino in the Middle Ages.

3. “The anti-Christian tone is so strong that it is extremely unlikely that a Christian could have written it.” Response: I guess apologists assume that Christian monks during the Middle Ages were so dumb that they couldn’t figure out that a second century pagan, if he wrote about Christianity, would have treated it with hostility.

>>139029635
4. “There is no evidence that there has been an interpolation.” Response: Given the fact that we have only two manuscripts, what physical evidence could there possibly be to support an interpolation? Do they expect us to produce a handwritten note from the monastery in question saying something like “I, Barnabas Felix, just inserted a spurious passage about Christians into Annales 15.44”?

Now here are some common sense objections to why this is most likely a forgery:

1. The passage is not attested anywhere until the 16th century. This includes Christian writings, including those from authors who explicitly set out to collate all mentions of Jesus or Christianity by pagan writers. It also includes Roman historians like Cassius Dio who mention the fire during Nero’s reign but don’t mention anything about a Christian persecution. For that matter, Cassius Dio’s monumental history spanning from the origins of Rome into the third century, does not even mention Christianity a single time.

Suetonius’ section about Nero contains one questionable sentence about punishment being “inflicted on the Christians”, but it’s not attested anywhere until 1590 AD (also in the sixteenth century). Is there a pattern forming here?

>>139029244
>As we have seen, the term 'Christian' was not in use during the reign of Nero

What does that matter? If they wrote "Followers of the Way" but contemporary people all knew them as "Christians", which by the way was done well before Nero died, as the Followers of the Way were first called Christians at Antioch, written of by Paul, who died after preaching to Nero, your point is ill taken indeed.

>>139029662
2. The wording of the passage is extremely dubious: “Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators.” This is basically tantamount to saying “One of our procurators crucified the Messiah.” Now he certainly couldn’t have got this information from a Roman source (and even presuming that he did, what would such a source look like? Would it be called “Judaean Crucifixion Ledger – Reign of Tiberius”?) Now many skeptics have proposed that he got the information from Christians, which would mean that he compiled his account of the Neronian fire and then heard from some Christians that their forebears had been persecuted at the time of the fire, and then just slipped in this reference without verifying it in any way. Under that scenario you might as well just say that the passage was a Christian interpolation: the outcome is essentially the same.

>>139029701
3. The mention of Pontius Pilate. Now many people split hairs about the difference between a procurator and a prefect, and I’m not really knowledgeable on that subject, but to me the smoking gun for this passage to be an interpolation is the fact that it mentions Pontius Pilate at all. Pontius Pilate is explicitly mentioned in Christian documents like 2 Peter, the letters of Ignatius, Justin Martyr’s writings, and even made it into the Nicene Creed, but it’s rather a strange thing for a non-Christian to mention the specific procurator who happened to be in charge of Judaea during the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. I mean it might be significant to Christians, given that Pilate allowed the execution to take place, but would a Roman compiling a history 90 years later really care to dig up the name of the frickin’ procurator? First of all, the actual official in charge of Judaea was the governor based in Syria; it would be more appropriate for a historian to mention him. But no, the importance of the association of Jesus and Pilate was second nature to the interpolator and so he added it in, probably without even recognizing that he did it, considering he started out by identifying the crucifixion during the reign of Tiberius, which would have also sufficed.

4. Some apologists have claimed that Tacitus would have been in a position to verify Christian sources given his membership in a special council that supervised foreign cults. In this case he would have had even less of an excuse to put forward such an ambiguous passage.

>>139029720
5. “An immense multitude was convicted”. I don’t even think I need to go into detail on this one.

Not 6. The entire next series of books in the Annales detailing most of the 30’s AD, when we might expect to see the actual account of the founding of Christianity, has not survived. The books which would have covered the time period from the death of Tiberius up to the beginning of the reign of Claudius are all missing. This, to me, is not a little suspicious.

If anyone argues that these ideas aren’t “scientific” or “scholarly”, my response would be: hey, if Christian theologians don’t have to put forth any real effort in proving the authenticity of this passage, then neither do skeptics when it comes to questioning it.

>>139029507
Do you have any scripture supporting that? I showed these ones >>139028762 which says they feel his wrath and are being tortured in front of the angels and the Lamb

>>139029316
On Suetonius: In c. 120 C.E., the Roman writer, lawyer and historian Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus (c. 70–140 C.E.), a friend of Pliny, wrote the following in his history, On the Lives of the Caesars, speaking of an event in 49 C.E.: “He [Claudius] expelled the Jews from Rome, because they were always making disturbances because of the instigator Chrestus”

Christ is Jesus of Nazareth.

>>139024326
Serpent seed triggers kikes

>>139029491
On Pliny the Younger: A friend of Tacitus, and like him the governor of a Roman province (in 110 C.E.), Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (c. 61–113 C.E.), known as Pliny, seems to have been excessively dependent on the Emperor Trajan for directions on how to govern. In his lengthy correspondence with Trajan, titled Epistles, X.96, along with his inquiries about how to treat people accused of being Christians, Pliny wrote:

They [the Christians] assured me that the sum total of their error consisted in the fact that that they regularly assembled on a certain day before daybreak. They recited a hymn antiphonally to Christus as to a god and bound themselves with an oath not to commit any crime, but to abstain from theft, robbery, adultery, breach of faith, and embezzlement of property entrusted to them. After this, it was their custom to separate, and then to come together again to partake of a meal, but an ordinary and innocent one (Evans, “Jesus in Non-Christian Sources,” p. 459)

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>>139029136
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html

The Talmud makes no mention of a Jesus of Nazareth.

>>139029852
Why is it in brackets?

>>139029191
Hahaha this fag got BTFO!

>>139029859
>The Talmud makes no mention of a Jesus of Nazareth.
You're insanely retarded

>>139029944
I'm not doubting that there are a ton of Christian apologetics, I am doubting that there were any actual sources of this guy existing that weren't tampered with by Christian clergy responsible for translating Roman and Greek documents. Since we rarely have older copies of these documents, it is hard to know, but certainly that is not proof of a historical Jesus if we just have documents that were edited by Christians before we can read them now.

>>139029764
Revelation 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

John 5:24 [ Life and Judgment Are Through the Son ] “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

>>139029944
Context

>>139030027
It absolutely does. It says horrid things about Jesus, but it absolutely talks about him.

>>139030066
At least a dozen. We've given you many.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

>>139030189
Ok so what exactly was the word used?

>>139029510
Yes, Jews created a religion purely that made themselves the enemies just so 2000 years later they could infiltrate it, subvert the followers and dismantle it over centuries. It makes total sense.
Why do all Jew memes follow the exact same set up, but just change the target?

>Jews created Christianity
>Jews created the Nazis
>Hitler was actually a Jew
>Trump is actually a Jew

No wonder the only role kikes have ever played in anything that required any actual talent has been (((financing))) whoever actually had the talent.

>>139030218
Where does the Talmud mention Jesus? Never.

>>139030158
Yeah, people in hell are counted as dead but they're still in the presense of God.

reminder that goytheists are literal brainlets that cannont comprehend that the universe demands an eternal creator.

>>139024326

I'm so tired of these threads trying to bait different groups into attacking each other.

I'm Christian. I'm gay. So was King James. LITERALLY.

Deal with it.

>>139025812
Old testament is boring and drawn out. It's also written in single sentences rather than paragraphs. Fucking shit to read and it's not exactly a great philosophical work.

>>139030158

As to "second death"

Revelation 2:11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

>>139030291
They

Meaning the Christians.

>>139024435
OP knew.

>>139030295
Jews were directed by Romans to do so. They had revolted due to new taxes and the Romans wanted to suppress the revolts. Some Jews were tax collectors and thus loyal to the Romans, not their fellow tribe.

>>139030295
It's almost as good as they theory that the Romans created Christianity to peacefully control the masses, then forgot they created it and persecuted them for 300 years.

>>139028284
>Please link to the Roman documents that mentioned Jesus specifically and were not (((edited))) by later Christians.

Not even atheist scholars make the claims you do.

>>139030379
When was the word Christian used and how was it rendered in the original language?

>>139030307
And it is tradition: On the eve of the Passover they hanged Yeshu ha-Noṣri. And the herald went forth before him for forty days, “Yeshu ha-Noṣri is to be stoned, because he has practiced magic and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and speak concerning him.” And they found nothing in his favor. And they hanged him on the eve of the Passover. Ulla says, “Would it be supposed that Yeshu ha-Noṣri was one for whom anything in his favor might be said? Was he not a deceiver? And the Merciful has said, ‘Thou shalt not spare, neither shalt thou conceal him’ [Deuteronomy 13:8]. But it was different with Yeshu ha-Noṣri, for he was near to the kingdom’” (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a; compare Sanhedrin 67a).

>>139030310
No, no they are not.

Why are you arguing that God is in hell?

>>139030405
There is no argument against the historicity of Jesus, you're an absolute kook.

>>139030326
Never met a gay Christian, and I never will.

I do believe you're gay though.

I'm gay and I love this book.

I fuckin hate atheists

>haha science bro weed no biggy just woke af and skeptical about everything

>data suggesting human biological diversity? uhhhh sounds RACIST and BAD

>>139030307
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_the_Talmud

It also calls hin the son of pantera and even jews on here say he existed. You're just being a complete retard.

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>>139030460
>Yeshu ha-Noṣri

Mentioning a common name isn't proof of a Jesus of Nazareth

>>139030445
Pejoratively, at Antioch first, as in "these nutters think their leader came back to life."

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

>>139030482
Because he is the one torturing them. And Jesus went to hell for 3 days after he died

>>139026684
Pride made Satan fall

>>139030603
Jews do NOT say he existed. No religious Jew claims Jesus was mentioned in the Talmud. Certainly people named Joshua were. But not a miracle-performing wayward carpenter born of a virgin or any of that.

>>139030326
>Christian
>gay
loterally impossible(Romans 1:26-32 KJV)

>>139030638
In your picture, Yeshua is Jesus. Yeshua is Aramaic; Yehoshua is Hebrew, Jesus is Hellenized.

>>139030669
So what is the word for Christians that he uses, in the original language.

The book undermines everything you say when you claim to be better than an Islamist. The book and it's interpretation, and the people who follow it, have been neutered by the Enlightenment into a semblance of reason, but it's still just a pretty show we parade to show we're better than Islam when in fact it makes us WORSE. At least Islamists have the balls to actually follow through on what their own book techers, Christians want the cake and to eat it, they ignore parts of the HOLY BOOK that is the LITERAL WORD OF GOD and think they can just pick and choose which parts they want to follow.

YOU CAN'T. Either it's all bullshit or none of it is.

Just say it's all bullshit, we can all move on, and resume our quest for a secular society, as God always wanted. WAIT!

>>139030566
This entire post is concentrated autism. None of that shit is related

>>139030533

If you think you determine when Christ appears in another man, then you never will meet him!

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ITT: Proof of gaytheism in action on pol. Will quote pages and pages of disputable bullshit just to keep the cock coming.
>Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain [4][5][6][7][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels.[nb 5][13][nb 6][15]:168–173 While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

>>139030326
>makes the point that we should stop infighting
>tries to casually throw faggotry into the mix of "peaceful" topics that we shouldn't argue about
kill self

(unless you wrote that to unite the atheists and the christians, then bravo)

>>139030793
Christianos as per the Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament

>>139030670
Nobody needs to torture people who are in a lake of fire. The lake works. The fire will never go out. The people will never die.

Jesus did not go to the lake of fire; Jesus went to Paradise, to the Bosom of Abraham, and led all the righteous believers into heaven at the resurrection.

And He may have taunted the evil spirits in Torment; hard to say. Probably.

>>139030566
I fucking hate christians
>No man we aint cucks even if we worship some jew, btw have you given donations to the gods chosen people of Israel
>Love your neighbour, even if he's s nigger that rapes your wife

>>139030725
Never seen a single Jew deny Jesus existed. Not one.

>>139030725
Jews believe Jesus existed, but they think he isn't the true Messiah. Even Muslims know Jesus. They're still waiting for the "true" Messiah. Yet Jesus is supposed to return so you out that logic together

>>139030782

I'm not a temple prostitute. You should work on your linguistic skills.

>>139030815
Was Nazareth a real town at 0?

Why do the gospels differ in their accounts of his birth?

How did Jesus predict the destruction of the second temple in 70 if he died in 33?

>>139030902
Ok so Christians were definitely a real thing in the late first century CE but was that a specific mention of Jesus?

>>139030793
In Latin? Jesus. From the Greek Iesous.

>>139030963
Jews do NOT believe Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud.

>>139030725
They still believe he existed but that he learned black magic to do miricles

>>139030725
biblical truths come to light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGUlWa2r-bk&t=699s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTtDhvk_aw4&t=81s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSIs2bHi5g&t=23s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d90NM9tgDQE&t=39s

>>139031001
>says "men who list after men"
>not all gays
KYS

>>139030895

The topic was already about that. Did you think I started the thread? Or did you think it was written for you... which is it?

>>139030807
So Jesus commends me, and you condemn me. I wonder which one I care about.

Revelation 2
“I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary.

The bible wouldn't say you can know Christians via X method if there were no X method.

>>139031004
Yes, and backing several centuries as a Roman garrison town. A backwater town. A white trash town, if you will.

>>139031196

is KYS the new WWJD ?

Sounding more Muslim day by day.

>>139031350
Source?

>>139031004
>Why do the gospels differ in their accounts of his birth?

Different people saying different things from all the things available to say without contradiction.

>>139031004
>How did Jesus predict the destruction of the second temple in 70 if he died in 33?

He is God, and God sees the end from the beginning.

>>139030918
God is the one that makes the fire burn

And yes Jesus did go to hell for 3 days
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVLQz-SuLKw

>>139031399
They most certainly contradict each other:

https://www.quora.com/Was-Jesus-born-in-Bethlehem-or-Nazareth

If you read only the Gospel of Matthew, without reading things into it from other stories, you will come away with the impression that

Joseph and Mary lived in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. (2:1)
Some time (months? years?) later, bunch of magi (astrologers?) “from the East” show up to pay homage and bring three gifts, but sort of give away the birth of Jesus (the newborn “king”) to the actual king, Herod [the Great]. (2:1–11)
Herod rather pharaonically decides to slaughter all manner of little Jewish boys in order to ensure that Jesus never grows up to usurp him, so the family flees to Egypt. (2:13–14)
After some years have passed, they return to Palestine, but since Herod’s equally murderous son, also named Herod [Archelaus], is now ruling in Judea, they decide to move to Nazareth in Galilee. (2:21–23)
Now read Luke, equally without presuppositions or eisegesis, and you will find that

Joseph and Mary lived from the very beginning in Nazareth. (1:26–27, 2:4)
Emperor Augustus, in the time that Quirinius was governor of Syria, declared that “all the world should be registered” in an enormous tax census, and because “[Joseph] was descended from the house and family of David”, they had to go to Bethlehem (David’s home town) to register. (2:1–5)
While they were in Bethlehem, they had to stay in a stable, where Mary gave birth to Jesus and laid him in a manger, because the inn had no vacancies. (2:6–7)
A bunch of shepherds came and visited them. (2:8–20)
Eight days later, Jesus was circumcised. (2:21)
A month later, they travelled to Jerusalem to present Jesus in the Temple. (2:22–24)
Finally, they returned to their home town of Nazareth in Galilee. (2:39)

>>139031095
Yes, of course. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Christians are people who follow the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

>>139031428
Or it was written after his death and is a Roman forgery.

>>139031499
*supposed

>>139031429
prove it from the bible

>>139031479
You are worshipping Roman state propaganda written by Jewish tax collectors to suppress tax revolts.

>>139030725
I always heard that Jews think Jesus was just a nice guy, Muslims think Jesus was a prophet, and Christians think Jesus was a manifestation of God.

>>139031269

>and you condemn me
LOL. You should get down off the cross so Jesus has some room.

If you think me pointing out in general terms what Christian blasphemy means, applies directly to you, then you should examine your own heart to find out why that is.

It is not I that have condemned you, but your own conscience.

I live in Christ, and I know my heart is clean.

You react with anger (saying KYS), and claiming that you know who Christ will choose (this is what the Pope does, claiming the title of Jesus).

I will pray for you.

>>139030413

Man the catholic church will burn for what they did to the templars.

>>139031392
In 1620 the Catholic Church purchased an area in the Nazareth basin measuring approximately 100 m × 150 m (328.08 ft × 492.13 ft) on the side of the hill known as the Nebi Sa'in. The Franciscan priest Bellarmino Bagatti, "Director of Christian Archaeology", carried out extensive excavation of this "Venerated Area" from 1955 to 1965. Fr. Bagatti uncovered pottery dating from the Middle Bronze Age (2200 to 1500 BC) and ceramics, silos and grinding mills from the Iron Age (1500 to 586 BC) which indicated substantial settlement in the Nazareth basin at that time. However, lack of archaeological evidence for Nazareth from Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Hellenistic or Early Roman times, at least in the major excavations between 1955 and 1990, shows that the settlement apparently came to an abrupt end about 720 BC, when the Assyrians destroyed many towns in the area.

>>139031429
Another idiot making Christians look bad. Shoo shoo.

>>139031909
Ok so it was not a town at 0 CE.

>>139031004
probably

they dont

because he's God

>>139031471
There's zero contradictions whatsoever. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. They fled Herod to Egypt. When Herod died, they moved to Nazareth, where Jesus grew up.

Jesus was born in 6 BC.
Herod died in 4 BC.
Herod ordered the slaughter of all male children in Bethlehem under 2 years old.

This is a very tight window.

And nothing you posted contradicts anything else.

>>139031499
Or He is God, and you will see Him with your own eyes one day.

>>139031553
I worship the one true and living God.

>>139032116
>because he is God

not historical evidence. He knew that the temple had been destroyed because the person writing the story was forging his identity and lived after 70 CE.

>>139032243
I just listed a bunch of contradictions.

>>139031792
>You react with anger (saying KYS),

We have IDs you know.

Love is a trick. See if you can so-constitute yourself into being a good person without it.

>>139032030
The Romans picked it back up as a garrison.....they were not around in 720 BC....

>>139031518
He does in the video

also
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption

>>139032300
No, you didn't. You thought you did, but failed.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
Jesus was called a Nazarene because he grew up there.

Luke spent very little if any ink on Jesus' birth and early life, yet you look at Luke for the details of Jesus' birth and very early life.

Why is that, I wonder.

Your family is in A.
They go to B, where you are born.
They go to C.
They go to D.
You are raised in E, and are called an E.

Saying you were born in B and moved to E is not a contradiction.

>>139032631
Now, it’s certainly true that people who believe in biblical inerrancy find ways to interleave these events to mostly fit in a single narrative. However, if you read them separately without attempting to bring anything from one story to the other, I think you’ll find that they tell quite different stories.

Matthew seems to imply that Joseph and Mary lived in Bethlehem. Luke says they lived in Nazareth.
Matthew has no journey to Bethlehem, no inn, no manger, no shepherds—because it seems Jesus was born in their house in Bethlehem.
Luke makes no mention of magi, or of Herod slaughtering babies, and doesn’t say anything about living in Egypt for several years.
Matthew says that they move to Nazareth, where Luke says they return there.
Moreover, each story has historical problems.

Matthew says that Herod had all the male toddlers and babies two years and under killed in Bethlehem, but there’s no outside indication that this ever happened, although it seems a pretty remarkable thing to order, and in spite of some ancient historians taking considerable interest in Herod and documenting his bloody misdeeds (he was pretty fond of murdering family members, for example).

>>139032655
Luke says that there was a worldwide—or at least Roman-Empire-wide—census during the reign of Quirinius as governor of Syria, but although there was a local census under Quirinius, there was no such empire-spanning census at all. Moreover, the description of this census is extremely bizarre. The Romans did have censuses for taxation purposes, but the point of such a census is to figure out how many people live in a given area so that you can figure out how much tax you can squeeze out of it. Why, then, should Joseph have to go to Bethlehem “because he was descended from [David]”? He’d owe taxes where he lived, not where his distant ancestor lived! And what would this kind of census look like logistically? David (if he was a historical person) lived about a thousand years earlier. Was everyone in the Empire supposed to keep track of their ancestors a thousand years earlier, and were millions of people supposed to travel to their ancestral home towns?

Finally, there’s a notable problem in the dates. Herod the Great died in 4 BCE, so the story in Matthew must have happened no later than 4 BCE. Meanwhile, Quirinius was made legate governor of Syria in 6 CE, and Luke says that it was during his reign that the census happened—but by then, Herod had been dead for a decade. Each gospel tells us when it happened, but there’s no overlap (≤4 BCE or ≥ 6 CE).

>>139032597
Read Luke 6.

Jesus went to Hades/Sheol, not Hell/Gehenna. And Hades/Sheol has 2 compartments, Paradise and Torment.

Hell/Gehenna has never had anyone in it.

>>139032655
They lived in both Bethlehem and Nazareth.

Absolutely zero contradiction.

Some writers wrote some things, some writers wrote other things, nothing that was written is a contradiction.

For instance, Jesus made 7 utterances on the cross. Nobody wrote all 7. But there they are, all 7, in all the gospels, harmonized.

>>139032300
Most of the appstles were killed before 70 AD which is why the Bible never mentions jerusalem getting destroyed after it happended

>>139032655
>Matthew has no journey to Bethlehem

Matthew 2
When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.

5 So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet:

6 ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
Are not the least among the rulers of Judah;
For out of you shall come a Ruler
Who will shepherd My people Israel.’”

>>139029720
Pilate was a really famous dickwad for his time. Josephus and Philo wrote at length about how much of a jerk Pilate was. He was pretty fucking famous, even 90 years later. Add in the fact that Pilate was the man who specifically sent Jesus to be crucified, and I don't see the confusion.

4. The passage isn't ambiguous. It's rather specific about the nature of what happened. Nero killed a bunch of Christians, Christians are followers of that Christ guy, and hey, he was killed too.

Only mythers with a lot of time on their hands can come up with these legitimately retarded rationalizations for why Jesus never existed. No historian takes you seriously buddy.

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>>139031200
I'll assume you had a stroke while writing that post.

>>139032675
The following is a record of a census taken in the year 104 A.D. which contains similar wording to that found in the Gospel:

"From the Prefect of Egypt, Gaius Vibius Maximus. Being that the time has come for the house to house census, it is mandatory that all men who are living outside of their districts return to their own homelands, that the census may be carried out . . . "

Another census was uncovered from 48 A.D. which also records a return of the people to their native land for the census. It reads as follows:

"I Thermoutharion along with Apollonius, my guardian, pledge an oath to Tiberius Claudius Caesar that the preceding document gives an accurate account of those returning, who live in my household, and that there is no one else living with me, neither a foreigner, nor an Alexandrian, nor a freedman, nor a Roman citizen, nor an Egyptian. If I am telling the truth, may it be well with me, but if falsely, the reverse. In the ninth year of the reign of Tiberius Claudius Augustus Germanicus Emperor."

It is interesting to note that these two census accounts required a person to return to their homeland to be registered. The same is true of the Gospel account.

>>139032869
However when we look for historical confirmation of this hometown of a god – surprise, surprise! – no other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD.

• Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.

• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.

• St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.

• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.

>>139032675
>ancestors a thousand years earlier

Jews today still have their family trees for 3,500 years, because it has to do with inheriting land in Israel.

So no, 1,000 years is not unheard of. Same families kept doing it for 2,500 more years.

>>139033258
Where was the synagogue in this tiny bucolic hamlet? Why was it not obvious to the first pilgrims like Helena (see below) – it would, after all, have been far more pertinent to her hero than a well? In reality, such a small, rustic community could never have afforded its own holy scrolls, let alone a dedicated building to house them. As peasant farmers almost certainly they would have been illiterate to a man.

If JC had grown up and spent thirty years of his life in a village with as few as 25 families – an inbred clan of less than 300 people – the 'multitude' that were supposedly shocked by his blasphemy and would have thrown him from a cliff, would not have been hostile strangers but, to a man, would have been relatives and friends that he had grown up with, including his own brothers. Presumably, they had heard his pious utterances for years.

Moreover, if the chosen virgin really had had an annunciation of messiah-birthing from an angel the whole clan would have known about it inside ten minutes. Just to remind them, surely they should also have known of the 'Jerusalem incident' (Luke 2.42-49) when supposedly the 12-year-old proclaimed his messiahship?

Indeed, had no one mentioned what had happened in Bethlehem – star, wise men, shepherds, infant-massacre and all? Why would they have been outraged by anything the godman said or did? Had they forgotten a god was growing up in their midst? And what had happened to that gift of gold – had it not made the 'holy family' rich?

>>139033258
Take whatever shit town you live in and see if some other country has extensive records of it.

>>139032734
Just watch the video he explains it more

>>139024435
I hope you die of GRIDS faggot

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>>139032675
https://youtu.be/luH581hVdXw

>>139033219

Nobody has questioned your imagination anon...

>>139026755
Hell is on Earth. That's why Satan was cast from heaven.

>>139033258
By the way, it's called the branch, and one of the messianic prophecies refers to the branch:

Isaiah 11:1 [ The Reign of Jesse’s Offspring ] There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.

Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.

The first extra-evangelical but indirect mention of Nazareth is contained in a few Jewish sources from the end of the 1st Century A.D. with reference to the Jewish-Christian community who believed in "Jeshua‘ Hannozrî" (Jesus of Nazareth), the "nozrím" – nazarene – who together with the "miním" –heretics- were part of the twelfth oration of the prayer "Shemonè Esrè", a note inserted during the so-called "Council of Jamnia-Yavne."

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Any Christians who want to help me argue with these trannies on /lgbt/ please be welcome >>>/lgbt/8774594

>>139033363
They all heard, and none believed. Jesus' own brothers did not believe.

You do not believe. And you have heard more than they.

>>139033442
Erase the video and never listen to another false teacher ever again.

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Atheism is a religion.

There are numerous compelling pieces of archaeological evidence that in fact Nazareth did exist in Jesus’ day, and that like other villages and towns in that part of Galilee, it was built on the hillside, near where the later rock-cut kokh tombs were built. For one thing, archaeologists have excavated a farm connected with the village, and it dates to the time of Jesus. Salm disputes the finding of the archaeologists who did the excavation (it needs to be remembered, he himself is not an archaeologist but is simply basing his views on what the real archaeologists – all of whom disagree with him — have to say). For one thing, when archaeologist Yardena Alexandre indicated that 165 coins were found in this excavation, she specified in the report that some of them were late, from the fourteenth or fifteenth centuries. This suits Salm’s purposes just fine. But as it turns out, there were among the coins some that date to the Hellenistic, Hasmonean, and early Roman period, that is, the days of Jesus. Salm objected that this was not in Alexandre’s report, but Alexandre has verbally confirmed (to me personally) that in fact it is the case: there were coins in the collection that date to the time prior to the Jewish uprising.
Salm also claims that the pottery found on the site that is dated to the time of Jesus is not really from this period, even though he is not an expert on pottery. Two archaeologists who reply to Salm’s protestations say the following: “Salm’s personal evaluation of the pottery … reveals his lack of expertise in the area as well as his lack of serious research in the sources.” They go on to state: “By ignoring or dismissing solid ceramic, numismatic [that is, coins], and literary evidence for Nazareth’s existence during the Late Hellenisitic and Early Roman period, it would appear that the analysis which René Salm includes in his review, and his recent book must, in itself, be relegated to the realm of ‘myth.’”

>>139033635
It's in the center of the earth in the third heaven, i.e. a different dimension. Not where we are.

>>139033841
Another archaeologist who specializes in Galilee, Ken Dark, the Director of the Nazareth Archaeological Project, gave a thoroughly negative review of Salm’s book, noting, among other things, that “there is no hint that Salm has qualifications – nor any fieldwork experience – in archaeology.” Dark shows that Salm has misunderstood both the hydrology (how the water systems worked) and the topography (the lay out) of Nazareth, and points out that the town could well have been located on the hill slopes, just as other nearby towns were, such as Khirbet Kana. His concluding remarks are damning: “To conclude: despite initial appearances this is not a well-informed study and ignores much evidence and important published work of direct relevance. The basic premise is faulty, and Salm’s reasoning is often weak and shaped by his preconceptions. Overall, his central argument is archaeologically unsupportable.”

But there is more. As it turns out, another discovery was made in ancient Nazareth, a year after Salm’s book appeared. It is a house that dates to the days of Jesus. Again the principal archaeologist was Yardena Alexandre, the excavations director at the Israel Antiquity Authority, whom I again wrote. She has confirmed the news report. The house is located on the hill slopes. Pottery remains connected to the house range from roughly 100 BCE to 100 CE (i.e., the days of Jesus). There is nothing in the house to suggest that the persons inhabiting it over this time had any wealth: there is no glass and no imported products. The vessels are made of clay and chalk.

>>139033902
The AP story concludes that “the dwelling and older discoveries of nearby tombs in burial caves suggest that Nazareth was an out-of the-way hamlet of around 50 houses on a patch of about four acres… populated by Jews of modest means.” No wonder this place is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, Josephus, or the Talmud. It was far too small, poor, and insignificant. Most people had never heard of it and those who had heard didn’t care. Even though it existed, this is not the place someone would make up as the hometown of the messiah. Jesus really came from there, as attested in multiple sources.

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>>139033818
There are many scriptures showing he did. Just watch it.

>>139033990
I already told you what happened. From the bible.

Not from a false teacher's youtube excrement.

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>>139027153
>Are atheists capable of any rational thought outside of strawmans and pseudo-nihilism?
Literally impossible for them. They cannot comprehend anything that isn't baseless hate against Christianity and all things related to it, all whilst they bend themselves over for the Great Cock of their god "Science". Its honestly no surprise that almost all of them are meme-flags.

>>139034089
Besides what you said was wrong. It's not an important doctrine anayways so doesn't matter much.

>>139031429
Oh, yeah, this guy is one of the biggest false teachers there is.

>>139034266
The bible is wrong, and your heretic Pastor Anderson is right.

Get out of the cult.

>>139034266
It matters that you listen to an antisemetic false teacher who does not know what "It is finished!" means.

>>139034376
the Bible isn't wrong. He supports it using the Bible

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>>139033818
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBA2zp992c&spfreload=10

>>139034671
The bible isn't wrong.

False teachers who twist the bible into their own heresies are wrong.

What does "It is finished" mean?

>>139034662
Are you saying antisemitism is bad? Jesus called jews the synagouge of satan

>>139034741
Won't play; which side did he come down on? Maybe, but it wasn't that bad?

>>139034807
Jesus is a Jew.

So yeah, antisemetism is bad.

kek

>HERP DERP I FOLLOW A JEW AND HATE ALL JEWS

>>139034809
he draws on false numbers, he even has a documentary called March To Zion which is free online about the Jews.
holohoax in short

>>139034755
besides it clearly says he did go to hell for 3 days.

>what does it is ginished mean
Probably that creation is finished. Like when it says that in Revelation 21 because God isn't going to create anything after New Jerusalem.

>>139034878
He isn't a religious jew. And I don't hate jews, I hope they get saved

>>139034809

brings up suppline lines and jew lies

>>139034961
I was googling him and found this gem: all holocaust survivors are paid shills.

kek

>>139035070
You know you have to be 18 to post here, yes?

One more time.

Hades/Sheol is not Hell/Lake of Fire/Gehenna.

Do you understand that?

>>139035354
:^))) proud neckbeered (or mustache :^))))

>>139035185
Jesus.....wasn't the perfect Jew, and so didn't follow the Law of Moses perfectly.

welp, I guess we all go to hell then.

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>>139035411
stop using shitty new versions

>>139035452
Damn, he hates Jews so much he calls Israel "illegitimate".

No wonder /pol/lacks listen to him.

>>139035518
I'm KJV only, dummy.

>>139035654
You mentioned sheol/hades which isn't in KJV

>>139035654
King James was gay. The bible has been altered so many times from the original Roman forgery in the late first century that it doesn't matter what version you use anyways.

>>139035855
He probably wasn't and he didn't translate any of it

No it hasn't

>>139035785
And Bosom of Abraham, and Torment.....and probably some other words not found in the KJV....

Luke 16
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

>>139035855
King James paid the bill. He didn't have any hand in anything the convention did.

>>139035855
Tens of thousands of manuscripts from dozens of countries say you're talking out of your ass.

>>139035855

Are you done?

Have we not put to rest each and every one of your questions, laid bare each and every one of your misstatements, and given you sufficient reason to believe the bible is for real?

So why do atheists help and support jews in their fight against Christianity - then turn around and hate jews who are essentially their brother in arms? It's hard to even tell them apart.

>>139035613
gangsta

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>>139036250
Nope. Christians have invested Billions into their tax-collection fraud but most aren't buying it anymore.

>>139036461
So you'll finish with the logical fallacy of ad populum.

Got it.

>>139036148
I am KJV only, but a few passages at end of Mark are confirmed forgery. Mark ends at 16:8

>>139036630
Nope just stating the fact that most don't find a historical argument sufficient enough to justify legal protections.

>>139036461
You would do well if, lacking any other knowledge you acquire today, you learn that Catholics and Chrsitians have very little overlap.

>>139036656
You use the word forgery too loosely. The addition is true. It was added later. John Mark did not write it.

Is that a forgery?

No, the Gospel of Mark ended right where it should have; nobody cares about the birth of a servant, and nobody cares about what happens after the death of a servant. And Mark (Peter) wrote about Jesus as the Ox, the Suffering Servant.

>>139036694
Both rely on historical fiction presented at historical fact so I am not concerned with either.

>>139036687
So you want from Jesus did not exist, to Jesus existed, but that's not sufficient for.....and then you lost me.

>>139036866
Nope.

>>139036922
I never said Jesus existed. I said Christians existed and lots of people named Joshua existed. The specific tale of one from Nazareth is unattested fiction.

>>139036866
Jesus really lived.
Jesus is really God.
Jesus really did rise from the dead.
Jesus really did ascend into heaven.
Jesus really did die for you, to pay a debt you owed to God, that you could not pay.

>>139037107
The most famous historian of ancient Rome wrote of Jesus.

It's time you remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

>>139036943
Well your opinion doesn't matter. Young people are increasingly gay and decreasingly religious.

7% of millennials are gay:

https://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PRRI-Millennials-Web-FINAL.pdf

>>139037107

Does America exist, if Americans exist?

>>139037197
http://www.academia.edu/10463098/Josephus_s_Testimonium_Flavianum_Examined_Linguistically_Greek_Analysis_Demonstrates_the_Passage_a_Forgery_In_Toto

>>139037205
Again with the logical fallacies.

Would it help you to know that the bible says most people are going to hell?

So you picked the popular destination?

>>139037238
There is no evidence of a Jesus of Nazareth who performed miracles.

>>139037241
He's a Jew.

I was speaking of Tacitus.

>>139037323
There's an entire bible full.

>>139037294
Oh no, Roman propaganda from 80 CE says I am going to hell!

>>139032300
>>139032655
>>139032675
>>139033258
>>139033363
>>139035855


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv8IqJm6q7w

remember, love is the greatest

>>139037344
And we went over how Tacitus is bullshit as a source too.

>>139037375
Your Creator says you must repent, and be saved, or go to hell.

Your choice.

>>139037398
In your mind, perhaps. And in the mind of other deviants who think they can hide from God in the darkness.

>>139030326
You cant be Christian and gay. But you can be Christian struggling with sexual deviancy in the form of same sex attraction.

>>139037398
Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

Annals, book XV:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

>>139037410
Jesus had nothing to with my creation since he is not real.

>>139024326
What a wonderful and magical book. No other book leaves degenerates and wicked people frothing at the mouth like so. Look at all the people who get so ANGRY at it.

>fags/trannies
>fat feminists
>welfare leeches
>niggers
>low-test numales
>fat fuck fedoralords
>muslims
>fat pagans

I mean it's just the wonderful gift that keeps on giving, in the form of hatred from the worst and lowest scum of society, primarily from fat people.

>>139037566
Then you are not real, and the earth is not real, and the universe is not real.

>>139037567
It's a powerful book. Take one into a bar, open it and start reading it.

It will bother people.

>>139024326
Pop-quiz:
Who can tell me: who was the next prophet after he who recorded the book of Revelation perished?

>>139024766
you feel quite safe saying that?

>>139037565
http://www.textexcavation.com/documents/zaratacituschrestianos.pdf

>>139037753
That had never been a prophet before?

No one.

>>139025031
no, it is finite

>>139025638
nope, not yet anyway
gehenna is yet to come
right after the millennium

>>139037825
So people like you who do not like what Tacitus recorded in his annals have written a paper saying you do not like it.

That's just marvelous evidence.

Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

Annals, book XV:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

>>139037851
yeah
but no

>>139037949
http://www.textexcavation.com/documents/zaratacituschrestianos.pdf

>>139037852
Jesus said it is eternal punishment.

So it is eternal punishment.

>>139038005
Then you're in the realm of false prophets, of which there are many.

>>139038011
Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

Annals, book XV:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

>>139037949
i want to verify that text
can you cite a source(s)?

It triggers me that you're using the KJV version instead of the much superior LXX

>>139038011
Chrestus, by the way, means Righteous One, and again, that would only be Jesus of Nazareth.

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>>139038087

>>139038200
It's literally in the quote.

Annals, Book XV

>>139038221
I want an XXL tshirt wth your id :^)))

>>139038245
>>139038227

>>139038017
yes
exactly
but be careful
but words have precise meanings

hellfire is finite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQiR4satkk

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>>139024326

>>139038060
im talking about the one and only, SOLE and TRUE prophet after the Apostles

>>139038280
thats not a URL, i mean

>>139038200
Chapter 44

Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their
CHRISTIANS ACCUSED OF INCENDIARISM

centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.

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>>139038227
>If I write X it refers to Y because I say so.

>>139038331
If Paster David Assterisk says hell is finite, he is contradicting what Jesus said.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

>>139024766
pretty heavy reading for fairlytales, oh I forgot, you're illiterate, thats probably why you didnt read it

>>139038453
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0078%3Abook%3D15%3Achapter%3D44

>>139025161
then why do they hate it so much, and react to the cross like vampires?

>>139038518
Words mean things. Christos means Anointed One. Chrestus means Righteous One.

Jesus is both.

>>139025638
It is real in the sense of your miserable life

>>139038757
Sad thing is, he's peaking now. It's all downhill from here.

These are his "good times".

>>139038704
Right? I feel like anon is being intentionally obtuse just because it means it would affect their life and way of thinking directly.
God bless!

>>139038685
Devil tells them they can't be saved.

None so good that don't need to be saved
None so foul that they cannot be saved.

>>139038568
listen to the video he makes it clear and does not contradict your that text

that text which you misunderstand, though

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>>139024326
Every word directly from God's heart without the slightest translation error.

>>139038967
He loses a lot when he believes Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and deep down he knows it.

What he doesn't know is that he stands to gain something infinitely better, to the point where he will take everything he clings to now and burn it as trash.

>>139038990
I don't care to, thanks. If you can't make his point, maybe he didn't make his point clearly to you.

>>139038704
I consider it now totally safe to say, in accordance with the examinations made by Andresen, Lodi and Rao, that the fourth letter in “Christianos” indeed has been changed from an “e” to an “i”. Accordingly, the scribe originally wrote Chrestiani, “Chrestians”, which might be what the Romans called the Christians, according to some scholars.

>>139039095
Yes, unlike the quran, the bible has been translated into hundreds of languages. Successfully. And nobody thinks they have to read the original.

>>139025812
the bible was put together by the council of nicea, 325 by roman prelates. they could have never foreseen universal literacy or the printing press. it was never meant to be a popular work or anything like mass media. it was meant to be an instruction manual for highly trained technicians. It takes many years of study to learn what it all really means, you cannot read it the way you read a novel.

Why can't we agree to disagree? I went to a christian elementary school and highschool and even when i was a kid i had the feeling that this shit just isn't true.

I just hate religion because it seperates people and christians have an inflated ego much like retarded athiests. Then both parties only see the worst of eachother. Then theres me who respects both sides but neither is right nor wrong. Ill be a fencesitter forever but at least im not ambnoxious about my beliefs.

Its so strange that in school we are taught to use different sources MULTIPLE sources but christians are allowed to cite from the bible and everything there written is 100 percent the truth that is some grade A bullshit.

>>139039171
Killed a bunch of them to. They went to their deaths singing praises to God. They're glorified in heaven now.

They sure would like to meet you.

>>139039243
Nope.

>>139037398
You didn't even come close to debunking Tacitus as a source. You just repeated some debunked arguments, wrote a whole lot of nonsense, and just threw it at us hoping it would convince someone.

>>139039360
Please cite proof of heaven. Payable on death means never paid.

>>139039323
Christianity is an offense to the world. Look what the world did to our leader. We don't expect better treatment, and neither should you.

>>139039148
it takes time
i could of course just state the conclusion more elaborately, but i cant make it clear and founded as it need be, but you must be prepared to hear it by many Biblical references/etc

i cannot set it up and all such minutiae properly in little text posts on an image board

start with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

then watch his video

>>139039446
all of it is non-falsifiable
you must choose either Christ, or the adversary
and as of now, it appears you have chosen the adversary, which is entirely your freedom

>>139039411
Jeffery Jay Lowder states:

"There is no good reason to believe that Tacitus conducted independent research concerning the historicity of Jesus. The context of the reference was simply to explain the origin of the term "Christians," which was in turn made in the context of documenting Nero's vices..."

It is not just 'Christ-mythicists' who deny that Tacitus provides independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus; indeed, there are numerous Christian scholars who do the same! For example, France writes, Annals XV.44 "cannot carry alone the weight of the role of 'independent testimony' with which it has often been invested." E.P. Sanders notes, "Roman sources that mention [Jesus] are all dependent on Christian reports." And William Lane Craig states that Tacitus' statement is "no doubt dependent on Christian tradition."
- Jeffery Jay Lowder, "Evidence" for Jesus, Is It Reliable?
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html

So it may simply be that Tacitus was relying on oral tradition, and not on any historical research for his reference to Jesus. Tacitus himself tells us about the vlaue of such traditions:

"...everything gets exaggerated is typical for any story" and "all the greatest events are obscure--while some people accept whatever they hear as beyond doubt, others twist the truth into its opposite, and both errors grow over subsequent generations" (Annals 3.44 & 3.19). (Cited via Carrier's article)

>>139039645
As weak as the Tacitus claim is, it remains a possibility that even this weak bit of apparent corroboration is a later interpolation. The problems with this claim are examined here:

http://www.atheistnetwork.com/viewtopic.php?p=38864&sid=eae887916e8679c9cd9fd7af5fc065e5#38864

>>139039676
Some of these problems are summarized by Gordon Stein:

"While we know from the way in which the above is written that Tacitus did not claim to have firsthand knowledge of the origins of Christianity, we can see that he is repeating a story which was then commonly believed, namely that the founder of Christianity, one Christus, had been put to death under Tiberius. There are a number of serious difficulties which must be answered before this passage can be accepted as genuine. There is no other historical proof that Nero persecuted the Christians at all. There certainly were not multitudes of Christians in Rome at that date (circa 60 A.D.). In fact, the term "Christian" was not in common use in the first century. We know Nero was indifferent to various religions in his city, and, since he almost definitely did not start the fire in Rome, he did not need any group to be his scapegoat. Tacitus does not use the name Jesus, and writes as if the reader would know the name Pontius Pilate, two things which show that Tacitus was not working from official records or writing for non-Christian audiences, both of which we would expect him to have done if the passage were genuine.

Perhaps most damning to the authenticity of this passage is the fact that it is present almost word-for-word in the Chronicle of Sulpicius Severus (died in 403 A.D.), where it is mixed in with obviously false tales. At the same time, it is highly unlikely that Sulpicius could have copied this passage from Tacitus, as none of his contemporaries mention the passage. This means that it was probably not in the Tacitus manuscripts at that date. It is much more likely, then, that copyists working in the Dark Ages from the only existing manuscript of the Chronicle, simply copied the passage from Sulpicius into the manuscript of Tacitus which they were reproducing."
- The Jesus of History: A Reply to Josh McDowell
Gordon Stein, Ph.D. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/gordon_stein/jesus.shtml

>>139024326
It always fascinates me how those so called 'atheists' are only so happy to take advantage of christian holidays such as Christmas.

>>139039643
exactly, It was invented. That's why there is no proof.

>>139039446
Ah, but death is an instant transition from this life to a life eternal:

Acts 7
When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, [Stephen the first martyr] being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

The man watching all this, and holding the robes of the murderers, and consenting to this atrocity, was Saul of Tarsus, later to be Paul, the greatest apostle of Jesus Christ.

>>139039528
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

Heresy. Sorry. Done.

>>139039738
Or cry out to God in distress.

>>139039095
i think those old peoples in england were illiterate. dafuq is a raet and how does he drithen?

>>139039528
>Annihilationism
False. You eother have eternal life or eternal torment
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

>>139039645
if you rest your conclusions on such things, then go ahead and reject Christ and embrace the dragon

though you will of course not be aware/think that you are embracing that old serpent

>>139039446
Moreover, you will be given an earnest downpayment on your eternal transformation; you will be given the gift of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit of God.

Ephesians 1
14 The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God’s own people, resulting in the honor of God’s glory.

>>139039764
>It was invented.

no, that conclusion doesnt work either where non-falsifiability is concerned
you cannot prove any of it either way

>>139039772
>Ah, but death is an instant transition from this life to a life eternal:

sort of
it only appears that way
when you die it does not matter if 1 day or 10 millennia pass until the day of judgement, for you it is as a blink of an eye

>>139039738
santa claus and christmas trees are pagan symbols of Odin worship. yet even christians celebrate those symbols

>>139040129
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I find the gay poster more sincere than you. You have bought false goods; he has not bought anything.

>>139040137
Because they wanted to attract and convert pagans, ame reason why Christmas is celebrated in December.

What reason do atheists have to do this when they don't even believe -any- God(s) exists?

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>>139029053
>>139024326
>>139024326
>>>139024435 >>139025158 >>139026070 >>139027278 >>139029789 >>139030326 >>139037567 >>139037753 >>139038342 >>139039095 >>139039738
>>139024435
>>>139024670 >>139025005 >>139025031 >>139025032 >>139025280 >>139027107 >>139029053 >>139029107 >>139029510 >>139029586 >>139030391 >>139033490
>>>139024326 (OP)
>>139025812
>>>139025993 >>139026238 >>139027770 >>139028978 >>139030343 >>139039243
>>139029136
>>>139029244 >>139029316 >>139029406 >>139029441 >>139029859
>File: 1490981856592.jpg (220 KB, 918x628)

godcucks are the most disgusting subhumans

>>139039810
it is easily verifiable if you are willing to trust the Word.

if hell lasts forever, where is the final victory over sin, for one thing?

and if you think THAT is bad, you would have a brain hemorrhage with this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv2wUz_qrX4&t=601s

Or perhaps you think you have all of your doctrine and theology perfect? with nothing to learn, ever?

>>139040137
Some do, some don't.

Ephesians 1
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

>>139039944
>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

again, you misunderstand that
so watch the video, unless you think your understanding of doctrine and theology and the Word is somehow perfect

>>139040315
1 Corinthians 15:55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

The victory over sin was at Calvary, Nisan 17, 32 AD.

>>139040440
>>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

This is not up for debate.

>>139039764
The greatest part about free will is being able to choose.
I know you don't believe or care about God anon and that's entirely your right.
Hell, I didnt believe it either for a long ass time but I can tell you that life surprises you sometimes.
It's like someone flipped on a light switch and all of a sudden you start to view life completely differently.
I hope that someday you find your way Christ anon, God bless and have a good one.