Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

>>138878048
all systems are flawed and will fall, just live life

>>138878048
wrong flag?

>>138878048
What did his ID mean by this?

>>138878048

Drug abuse is cool.

interesting post, would hope to see more replies on this. Personally havent played the game myself, only heard about it.

>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of Bioshock?
Fucking with injecting yourself with some kind of physically altering DNA is gonna end with a bad time. How it got to that level in that society where everyone did it and didnt stop at the first loony tune is never explained and pretty shitty story telling.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

>>138878048

The message, as far as I could tell, was if you allow completely anarchic capitalism someone will inevitably monopolize society.

I never read atlas shrugged, which the game is supposed to be based on so I'm not certain that's the actual message.

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Much better propaganda in 3

>>138878791

>National socialism is flawed because kikes don't like it

Oy vey

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>>138878048
I haven't played it in forever but IIRC the main issue was the unskilled labor they brought down there to support the population. I'm pretty sure most things were fine until the workers went full retard and rioted.

The augments didn't help either but I can't remember how large a problem they were before the riots.

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>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of bioshock?
libertarian society will fail because people will inevitably use their magic to kill each other with bees.

>>138880296
>I'm pretty sure most things were fine until the workers went full retard and rioted.
where the fug did that come from?

>>138878048
Andrew Ryan was a libertarian autist, and when his free market society produced a lot of people who had nothing he told them to fuck off. Fontaine cared for those people and created an army to take over Ryan's city

>>138880322
and McDonald's McChild ArmiesTM

>>138880322
Yep or throwing lightning at each other

>implying (((they))) didn't get on the Rapture train too

Oy vey lets not shoah the 6 million

>>138881156
there were also some minor themes, like Andrew Ryan shitting on his ideals whenever it suited his business interests, like when he cracked down on smugglers (couldn't compete with the surface world). Or about how everyone coming to Rapture thought they would be super-successful without "parasites" holding them back, without realizing that someone has to scrub the toilets even in Rapture. Or about how this free market utopia was every bit as corrupt as the surface world that they shat on

Also the player character was Andrew Ryan's son in case someone missed that

The message of bioshock was tht the developers were commies that hated individualism and objectivism so they infused reality with "magic" (read:plasmids) so their boogeymen apocalypse made sense.

>>138878048
Any free society whose citizens are not self-governing moral Christians is doomed to tear itself apart or turn into a police state.

>>138879956
It is fairly flawed when it comes to dealing with the out-of-group population. Too many different thoughts in regards to this and no real consensus.

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>>138878791
>all systems are flawed
Not national socialism.

>>138878048
Bioshock used a sort of para-Objectivism a thematic (perhaps mostly aestheitc) element for its story. It doesn't really work well if you're looking for arguments against Rand's ideas because the game didn't incorporate her ideas themselves, but just used her writing as inspiration for style (and particularly for characters).

The game was really all over the place in thematic terms. It presents itself as being about the collapse of an "Objectivist" dystopia, but that's really just a setting. It throws in all sorts of questions about the nature of free will and the idea of brainwashing. It has weirdly conflicting themes about supposed, but cleary unrealistic, dangers of genetic engineering. It tells you that using plasmids is bad and will make you insane, but also that you should collect as many plasmid powers as you can and use them all the time with no negative effects (side effects mostly seem scripted to happen no matter what you do, and don't interfere with play). I'm not sure the game was intended as a serious deconstruction of Rand's ideas. If so, they did a poor job of it.


Also, at the end of the game they thell you the real moral of the story is some kind of revelation about the importance of "family". This seemed jarring. The game presented some of clearly dysfunctional familial relationships, but mostly used them as plot devices and didn't really mention any possibility of better familial relationships.

>>138878048
it went to shit because of made up sci fi garbage to make a game

>>138879895
There was no Bioshock 3. Infinishit is not a Bioshock game.

>>138878048
Anarcho capitalism is just a cult of degeneracy

>>138878048
It all fucked up because some little cunt wasnt happy with what he had, cried alot, rioted and people listened and fucked shit up

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>>138878048

>message of Bioshock

Dudes read Ayn Rand's book and came up with some kool looking shit.

Other then a few lines that are mostly ripped out of Ayn Rand's philosophy this game doesn't have much to offer in wisdom.

It's just a cool looking video game.

Don't look too deeply in shallow waters

Damn, that shit was 10 years ago, I get old. It feels like I'm in a time warp

>>138884167
>>138879956
>Socialism isn't flawed.
Nazi Germany was more socialist than Sweden.

>>138884900
I know what you mean.
I feel like I'm 10 years behind whenever I visit Turkey.

>>138880322
/thread

>>138884949
Socialism isn't flawed when it still preaches identity, shuns multiculturalism and happens in a country that's at least 95% white. Flag related.

They intended for it to be anti-Objectivist yet if anything it just reinforced Rand's views. Rapture was a paradise when Andrew Ryan was still true to his beliefs, it only went to shit once he abandoned his Objectivist principles.

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>>138878048
Libertarianism wouldnt even work in a fictional magic underwater art deco city not to mention the real world.
Also, why were there no roads in Rapture?

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The message is that normies ruin everything.

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>>138885823

>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of Bioshock?
love authority

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>>138879895
I wonder how George Washington would feel about Christ-like imagery like this surrounding him.

>>138878048
Bioshock is a strawman argument against Ayn Rand's political and philosophical arguments.
That's really it. The game dev Kevin Levine was interviewed back when the game was first released about the story and he basically said that he was a lolbertarian and that while he was fascinated by Ayn Rand's ideas in Atlas Shrugged, he wanted to write something that would represent how such a situation would go down in reality (something to that effect).
It's literally a strawman against Atlas Shrugged. Similar to how Bioshock in the sky was a strawman against white conservative Christian values. I think at the end of that one however, he tried to give some kind of cheesy meaning with the multiverse stuff, despite everything else being an attack on western culture and American values.
Basically, this is why you don't trust lolbertarians. They're a right wing nihilistic movement and Ayn Rand knew this, which is why she hated them, saying "libertarians plagiarize my ideas and rip the teeth out of them".

>>138878048
that jews ruin everything and we're all slaves to the jews. If you read that novel that was written about rapture before it was built Frank Fontaine didn't even belong there and was a subversive fuck who stole identities working his way up to infiltrating rapture. he's also the reason why it went to shit

That libertarianism and "true" capitalism, can't exist, because of nature of the man. Like communism. It will eventually boil down to authoritarianism.

The whole commentary is superficial because if you read into the development history of Bioshock you'll know that the first idea they had was the little sister/bid daddy dynamic and its creepy imagery and then reverse engineered a scenario as for why they were doing anything at all. The critique relies on a deus ex plot device (adam slugs) to justify how a free market society would end in anyway like that at all. The whole thing is superficial and anyone impressed by this game's commentary are morons who don't read books. Fun interactive entertainment at least.

>>138878048
Libertarian societies can advance technologies at a rate 100x that of modern society. Just look at all the cool shit like plasmids they had in the 50's because they were allowed to chase technological innovations without regulation.

>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of Bioshock
Dude weed lmao is a slippery slope to, dude just drink the blood of the sea slug inside that little girl Lmao

>>138885823
Why were there no fat people in rapture?
I'd say that they did a pretty good job all in all.

>>138886171
Ken Levine is a member of the tribe and a smarmy jew

>>138886482

Because they didn't develop any fat character models.

The city was an autocracy with private police. There was a civil war that began with zero charity or opportunity for some people. There was also the widespread drug/superpower problem.

Rand would have objected to Ryan's governance, probably predicting doom just based on that. She also praised reason which drug addiction destroys, and superpowers changed the metaphysics of the in-game universe which also would have necessitated reconsidering some things.

The issue that needs the most attention was the civil war. Ryan brought in a lot of people who were avowedly elitist and uncharitable. Most people who bitch about objectivism suppose that the philosophy would make everybody this way, leaving unfortunates to die. Rand felt more positively about people as a whole (not a group handpicked for their almost-tangible douchiness), and believed enough charity would be available when truly needed, but that less would be needed in the first place.

So I guess the lesson is that a philosophy will fail when you deliberately create the conditions under which the author of that philosophy predicts it will fail.

>>138878048
All systems based on external identity fail? Didn't bioshock take place in a technologic dystopia which people "found" themselves in tech?

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>>138886482
>Why were there no fat people in rapture?

There was a food shortage caused by the lack of roads.

>>138886687
Hierarchy shuffle is not a civil war, dumb leaf

>>138884949
Niggers fuck socialism up. It only works if their just white people. Asians suck at it too.

System shock, system shock2 > bioshock

>>138878048
Random bullshit between a shoot and another.
Pretentious plot.
Good music.

If you want real messages read a book.

>>138878048
It shows the fall of man due to his own hubris.

>>138880322
That's p. fuckin' nasty, bro

>>138886773
civil war is civil war though

>>138882301
Nah uh

>>138878048
The Message: AnCap societies always become drug-ridden shitholes, just like Freeside in Fallout NV

>>138886751
>>138886751
Horsey quality comic.

Absolute trash.

>>138884321
>>138886171
>>138886215
Sure, they use the plasmid shit as an excuse to explain why everyone went crazy and why the player character has to kill so many people. But if you follow the commentary (diaries and stuff) you'd know that the decline started way before that. Even before the plasmids made everyone insane, the libertarian paradise was suffering from corruption (Andrew Ryan abusing his power) and unemployment. The society produced a lot of people who had nothing and who were shit out of luck. Frank Fontaine started building homeless shelters for these people and in return they regarded him as a hero. Eventually, Fontaine and Ryan started duking it out, and Fontaine turned his admirers into an army. In this plasmid arms race they all got super hopped up on plasmids and a lot of people became completely insane

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>>138878048
in case anyone wasn't aware, this is real anarchist/communist propaganda tacked onto a Randian commentary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_gods,_no_masters

>>138886981
>t. Fontaine

>>138887054
It is technically civil, it is technically war. But it isn't civil war, since no civil change is made. Switching one leader for another, even through war, is not a civil war,

>>138884949
yeah all those cartels were just banter lmao

>>138878048
Huh. I watched that video introduction 15 minutes ago.

Baader-Meinhof effect up ins

>>138887155
Fontaine was not a good guy, he only did those things to gather his own army in an attempt to take over rapture. he faked his own violent death to then outrage people that andrew ryan would do that while he used adam to change his appearance to that of Atlas to come take charge of that army he created that was now enraged.
>Andrew Ryan literally did nothing wrong

The true philosophical message of bioshock was don't let potatoniggers (eg fontaine) into paradise

>>138887294
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Rapture_Civil_War

It's referred to as a civil war so that's what I'm calling it. Take the pedantic shit up with someone who cares. I answered OP's question

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>>138878048
Yeah,went so too when man decided there is no God, therefore man is god
We all know how that thinking process ends up producing

>>138887517
I never said that Fontaine was a good guy, only that he pretended to be. As for Andrew Ryan, the reason he got into some shit with Fontaine in the first place was because Fontaine was smuggling stuff from the surface world, which severely hurt Ryan's business interests (no free market for you).

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>>138885823
>They can't even into roads in fantasy.

>>138886588
Explains why his games are strawman bullshit, typical of all Az Jews.

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>>138887601
>right-wing being reffered to as nazis so that's what i'm calling them

>>138878048
That libertarians are even more arrogant regarding human behaviour than commies/socialists.

>>138887840
This is why the game is a strawman argument against atlas shrugged.

>>138878048
>if you have nothing beyond yourself to rely on then you have nothing at all
You were controlled the whole game. >>138878791
>capitalism is failing
>communism has failed
>national socialism was smashed
>Feudal monarchism has been tried and never failed nor defeat from the outside
Really boggles the goggles

you cant create a society free of mans problems when including mankind in that society

>>138887517
Ryan was a retard. That someone would weaponize the poor was a matter of time, especially in such a claustric environment. Charity would guarantee his safety.

>>138888011
Yes, Andrew Ryan didn't live up to his ideals. But even if he had, the free market would still have produced a lot of people who are shit out of luck. That would be very fertile grounds for political agitators even if Fontaine had never existed

>>138888140
>Feudalism never failed.
Pffffahahahaha!

>>138887989
the true redpill is knowing that nothing can ever succeed because people are fucking stupid and that's that

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>>138886482
>>138886751

>>138887109
>freeside
LOL no, you have the two sides, the poor in Freeside and the rich in The Strip. That's what happens in an AnCap society.

>>138887989
Objectivism is not libertarian. Rand Hated libertarians.

>Because libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication when that fits their purpose. They’re lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They want an amoral political program.

Libertarianism is right-wing nihilistic politics.

>>138887294
Just because there wasn't a civil change, doesn't mean there wasn't a civil war. This is like saying just because there was no victory there was no war.

>>138878048
Bioshock were lackluster games but the stories were always cool. The message i got is that any ideology on steroids will lead to failure. In the second game the main villain was a commie and her daughter even says
>she would rather us all be equally miserable than achieve happiness on our own

>>138887936
Since I can't think of an equally bad comparison of the top of my head I'll just say that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck or at least very close, but it's almost certainly not an alligator.

Being right wing myself I'm a little more invested in that kind of pedantic shit since it's pretty easy to demonstrate that I don't have enough in common with nazis to be one.

>>138888362
Oh that makes sense.
Anyways on the issue of roads, they did use trains as well as mini submarines to travel between different parts of the city.
Why build roads when you can just travel through the water I suppose.

>>138888487
Ex. This would be like saying if the U.S. and U.S.S.R. had gotten into a nuclear war. Because they were both dead by the end, there was no war.

>>138878048
I dunno, but I think every civilization will go to shit eventually.

>>138878048
>mfw OP doesn't ask "Would you kindly tell me the message of Bioshock?"

My disappointment is immeasurable, anon.

>>138888487
Civil and social shift presides civil war.
If not happening, then it is not civil war. It is coupe or hierarchy struggle.

>>138888274
Doesn't matter. The game was a strawman and using a strawman as an argument that something will or will not work is a logical fallacy.
You're literally the person this game was made for, to arm you with shallow arguments and steel your mind against arguments to the contrary.
That you use this game in anyway to make a point shows how manipulated you are.

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make way for the better game

>>138878048
>No!' says the man in the Synagogue, 'It belongs to Goldman Sachs and Israel

>>138889040
Literally electra complex: the game

>>138888894
>Civil and social shift presides civil war.
True. But what your saying is because this fighting didn't result in anything, it doesn't count as a civil war. Which it pretty much is implied if not out right stated to be.

>>138889040
Eehhhhhhh debatable.

>Bioshock came out ten years ago

>>138879895
This is the sort of aesthetic the american alt-right should aspire towards

>>138879956
National socialism is flawed because it collapsed after less than 20 years.
Even communism got past 1/2 a century.

>>138887517
>Andrew Ryan literally did nothing wrong
Except betraying his own ideas and ideology the second someone was threatening his political and economic position at the top.

>>138888564
I didn't like the second one very much. I get that they had to criticize some left-wing utopia just to seem fair, but the whole transition seems contrived. Also I just don't get the left wing shit, I never seemed something anyone would take seriously

>>138888981
Ok, what was the strawman? The idea that free market produces losers? Capitalist system has always operated in cycles. Free market will shit itself even we leave it to its own devices. Central banks were created to mitigate these business cycles, and now lolbertarians like molymeme blame the central banks for all these things because they don't understand basic economics.

I mean if you want to go into detail about the flaws of capitalism, we can. Neither me nor the game are using the game against libertarianism. There are some legitimate arguments and both the game and my views are based on those

>>138880322
At least you get to beat Ayn Rand's face in with a golfclub.

>>138889040
bioshock 2 was only better mechanics wise the story was abject hipster trash. *except for the thinker DLC which is what the main game should have been

>>138886974
This

>>138889560
Actually no, he could have crushed Fontaine but didn't, which lead to the whole disaster in the first place when things escalated.

Honestly, societal problems exist when checks and balances fail. When the few can EXPLOIT the many without consequences is when things go to shit. Inequality is natural, allowing inequality to create undue suffering is barbaric and we should be beyond that point as a species.

>>138888564
>>138889671
I remembed Bioshock 2 seeming like kind of a chore as far as gameplay aas concerned, but I thought the plot was intersting. The antagonist is plainly based on B.F. Skinner - kind of an obscure target these days, but a logical one of you want to attack leftist utopian from the early-mid Cold War era.

>>138886162
The elites in the early colonies referred to America as "New Israel"
Many of the founders wanted the seal of the US to be moses parting the sea opposing pharaoh
George Washington said that America couldn't survive if the population wasn't religious and thus virtuous
The Supreme Court is built to look like the Parthenon, the holy temple of Athena the goddess of justice
The Justices wear black, priestly robes and emerge from behind a veil in the back of the courtroom when beginning a session
Washington was the head of his freemason lodge

I'm sure Washington would be fine with it

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>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of Bioshock?
no matter how pure and ”good” your intentions might be,there ll always be someone that will choose corruption and fuck it all up
human beings are morally flawed

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I'll just leave this far more superior game here....

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>>138890516
>Andrew Ryan didn't use state power to eliminate Fontaine
Did you even play the game?

>>138878048

Levine is a kike.

>>138890516
he also let Fontaine become one of the top industrialists in Rapture and even admired him for it. It was the smuggling shit that turned Ryan against Fontaine

>>138890948
Stay mad.

>>138878048
The message was that ideologies cannot solve the problems of man. Andrew Ryan needed people to live in his perfect little world, only surprise surprise, people don't always follow the rules, or give a shit about what their ideology says.

This is the fundamental failing of all fundamentalists, be they commies, nazis, capitalists, socialists, atheists, whatever. If you are a fundamentalist, even if you win and get what you want, it will never last. Fundamentalism always fails because the vast majority of people will never be "true believers" like Andrew Ryan was. All it takes is one Fontaine and the whole thing comes crashing down.

Ryan, like Rand, only supported his philosophy when it benefited him. As an Objectivist Rand should have shunned collecting social security and not be a cunt when the man she was having an affair with started fucking another woman.

>>138890614
>The elites in the early colonies referred to America as "New Israel"
Sauces for this dry nugget of bullshit, anon?

>>138887861
Dunno, the dystopias weren't so horrible, they were beautiful places. They're not so much critiques against right wing ideals in general but against ideological purity and the lack of pragmatism.

>>138891212
Nice flag?

>>138889531
It collapsed because NatSoc got dogpiled by the US/UK and USSR, the greatest powers at the time.

China is going full steam ahead fascist

>>138878048
Watch the plot of bioshock series 50 times and you will get it

>>138879956
No, national socialism is shit and extremely flawed
Because socialism is trash
Hitler literally invented and entire new type of economic model specifically because socialism only was implimented to restart the non-existent German economy

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>>138891177
>Digits of Truth
So the question becomes, what is the answer to governing humans?

>>138880322
>Rapture
>Lolbertarian
I love how you faggots do everything you can to pretend the successful shit isn't capitalism

>>138891594
>Hitler literally invented and entire new type of economic model
>Bought a fuckton of guns
>Stole from the kikes, then the Frogs
"entire new type"
Fucking kek

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So, according to Ryan, buying children from their parents and turning them into abominations of science through painful surgical procedures doesn't violate the non-agression principle?

>>138891637
If we knew that we would be living in a vastly better world. In my opinion it's about empathy, understanding, competence, passion, self-reflection. Until man is a more virtuous animal, any government or ideology is a mere obstacle in his way of getting what he wants. We will dress it up a million different ways, but in the end all this philosophy and arguing is just a fancy way for the rich and powerful to justify what they have and what they want to have at everyone else's expense.

>>138891888
Pretty sure they were orphans.

>>138882301
Literally the only problem with Rapture(besides the fact that it was fucking under water) was that for the unskilled labor he brought retards in to do the work
I know people who clean toilets for a living and they are contempt with it, they don't have delusions of grandeur and they don't expect anything extra other than what the job makes them.
Had Ryan specifically screened people for every single job instead of doing massive sweeping recruitment there wouldn't have been a thing wrong with it other than the psycho trying to destroy a good thing

>>138891888
No, cause they were sold. Plus they can't do shit about it as children, kek.

>>138890966
>he also let Fontaine become one of the top industrialists in Rapture and even admired him for it.

This. He started with crime, but only got truly wealthy of of his plasmid business, which was "legitimate" by setting standards (I don't remember if if how they rationalized the slavery involved). He was one of the richest men around, and was getting richer and more powerful by the day. He didn't need to start a rebellion or continue smuggling to stay on top.at that point. In fact, these activities would have cost him more than they earned him (especially the poorhouse army stuff).

A lot of people don't seem to get Fonaine. He doesn't represent simple corruption, or crime, or authoritarianism using the poor as weapons against freedom, even if he talks about that stuff. He's a purely nihilistic character whose only real motivation is to pull down what others have built and "show them they're not so great". Almost certainly modelled on Toohey from The Fountainhead.

>>138883562
Yeah because Comstock wasn't a god damn retard who followed the exact same formula as Ryan except made christcucktianity the central pillar of the society instead of the individual

>>138891888
Ryan was objectivist, not a fag-er-tarian. Objectivists believe that the ends justify the means, hence the nightmare loli's to produce ADAM.

>>138890577
Ah, so I was simply unaware of the source materialism. Still, it to me it seemed like it was beating a dead horse, criticizing something nobody these days would take seriously

>>138891888
What if the child consents tho?

Fun fact, Soviets invented underwater welding. :^)

>>138891993
Well humanity has been trying to be virtuous for how long now? Doesn't seem to be a possibilty...

I didn't played the first one but the message of Infinty is not listen to womans, they are retard and will fuck everything

>>138888358
>>138888479
I truly believe that the United States of America is built on a great foundation. The problem is that the Jews and globalists have a grip around our collective necks with their untermensch dogs running wild in the streets. The only cure for our ailment now is the purge of about half the population. If this can't be done in a civil way then doing it by force is the only option. America and any country that hopes to be great must consist of the ubermensch.

>>138886171
>despite everything else being an attack on western culture and American values.
Kind of drugs are you on?
Infinite literally showed that religious fanatacism was retarded(it is) and that the majority of normie's alternative to it is communism/anarchism and that their solution doesn't do anything but destroy and doesn't work for shit.
Comstock a shit

>>138892309
Its probably not. However in the long run we are all dead anyway. I guess the best way to improve would be to first admit we have a problem that no "good book", "racial purity", or "egalitarian philosophy" will ever solve.

>>138892290
No they didn't

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>>138892672
Damn. That strikes deep.

>>138892268
>criticizing something nobody these days would take seriously

Read about "Walden Two". You still hear about it from time to tim, and I suspect derivatives of Skinner's moral thinking are still pretty influential in left wing philosophy even if the Behaviorist stuff he was best known for has lost a lot of acceptance among psychologists.

>>138892726
Post proofs.

>>138892810
I take it you haven't read the Bible.

>>138892726
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Khrenov

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>>138878048
The message was that the only way for individual prosperity for all is to become self sufficient
t. varg

>>138892904
I can only ever get half way through Genesis before I do something else. However, I was raised in the church. It's not like I'm deaf to the word.

>>138886171
bioshock infinite shows the vox populi being retarded as well

not just one side is wrong

the vox wanted to kill the one white child because he would supposedly turn into the opressor and yet instead the bitch running the vox get killed by Elizabeth who stops her


so it's not completely against it since it shows the vox being shit as well and not this pure group who dindu nuthing.

>>138892126
>screening
Isn't that against libertarian principles? Open borders and freedom all the way baby

>>138878048

>Ryan begins working on a society where people are rewarded for their own hard work

>as the creator, he is sort-of the mayor/president/overseer of the city despite not being a real elected official.

>Ryan is paranoid that the cold war will come to rapture and closes rapture off to the world to ensure its independence

>people who want Ryan's job begin challenging him. Ryan accepts the challenge hesitantly

>literal Jew discovers genetic modifying properties (ADAM) in organism that lives around Rapture

>(((Fontaine))) kidnaps little girls to use as hosts for the organism for more Adam and more profits

>(((Fontaine))) uses the genetic manipulation and the degenerate underbelly of Rapture try and stage a coup with addicted genetically modified supersoldiers

>All hell breaks lose as everyone is addicted to ADAM and everyone is able to shoot lightening out of their hands

All in all, pretty redpilled. Asshole kike destroys everything because he wants to be top dog while leeching off others achievements

>>138891177
Andrew Ryan also outs himself as not a true believer. He believed in the great chain while he was the one pulling it, but the moment it pulled him he flipped the fuck out. People push ideologies when it benefits them, but will twist and break them the moment anyone else does better under the exact same rules.

>>138893256
I love games like these where nobody is the "good guy" and you have to choice who you would follow instead of who is the best morally. Echoes humanity and affiliations in our world desu.

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>>138886162
>>138891239
>>138890614
This is the mural inside the dome of our Capital building

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i've been enjoying the discussion here

reminder that we need to make threads like this that are ACTUALLY ABOUT POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY to counteract the trolls and shills

>>138893728
im the good guy i saved all dem babies

>>138893455
This guy gets it. Ideology is simply a tool, nothing more. Very rarely is there a true believer in ideology.

>>138893964
Or you...?

>>138889531
Are you autistic? It didn't "collapse," it was murdered by those filthy kikes. If it actually failed on its own then that would be one thing but it didn't, and it would be around to this day if it wasn't for the kikes.

>>138878048
Ken is subconsciously our guy.

Bioshock infinite proved the white society to be best. Everyone was happy, respectful, dressed and acted with class, technological innovations were flourishing etc. The bad part? Niggers weren't treated that well I guess. Wow, really makes it all seem pointless. Not.

>>138878048
If you don't have oppressive govt then everyone gets awesome super powers + technology but will go crazy and kill/destroy everything.

>>138894119
Tbf it did collapse based on a mixture of it's own choices in dealing with exterior forces and take your pick of other forces.

>>138892290
funner fact, no one gives a shit you nazi

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>>138878048
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

'No!' says the man in Berlin, 'It belongs to his children.'

>>138879895
What type of Political system was Columbia? Would it be considered Fascist by definition?

>>138878048
I think the message was "without the feet firmly on the ground commercialism, decadence and technology will run amok".

>>138878791
The system was as flawed as any other. But really the main fault with all systems is the hypocrisy/corruption of those with power (Same can be said about capitalism or communism). Ryan espoused unfettered capitalism but as the founder and defacto largest corporation in Rapture instead of trying to compete against Fontaines or other successful companies he used his position to act like the governments he claimed to hate (Basically instead of getting rid of government Ryan became the government in his desire to stay in control of what he had built and felt was 'his'). And get competitors shut down or seized and added to his own empire. Also it can be seen as a commentary on how a society only looking for profits without any moral or regulatory limitations doesn't end well (Drug use and splicers etc.)

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>>138891239
here's jefferson and franklin wanting moses to be the national seal

ill look for the new israel reference next

>>138894385
What do you mean? Nobody in the Axis wanted war, the fucking warmongers like Churchill did. If it wasn't for the Allies the system would be around today. Unlike Socialism and Capitalism, Fascism is sustainable in the long run. After all, a goal all Fascist leaders pursued was self sufficiency..The countries could work together and exchange resources that the others needed. Unfortunately, the (((Allies))) decided that nation is allowed to be Fascist, and that anything except Jewish run government was an abomination. As a result, the war happened and the West is where it is today.

>>138888787
this

>>138884949
>Nazi Germany was more socialist than Sweden.
You are wrong, Social Democracy is very careful and committed to democracy or to put it in better words a representative democracy.

A short quote from wikipedia about Social Democracy which i think really describe the political system in Sweden very well:

> Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes; and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Northern and Western Europe—particularly the Nordic model in the Nordic countries—during the latter half of the 20th century.[4][5]"

>>138894661
ethnic nationalism mostly to a extent though having all the minority doing all the shit jobs while having them as second class citizens

then again it's kinda like modern american

with the who ppl at the top using illegals for the shitty jobs no one want.

but the class on top where whites in general

either way i like the society in infinite

and the vox populi where shown to be in the wrong as well

most game today wouldn't even show the other side being in the wrong if ever.

>>138894658
No! Say the man in Sofia it belongs to the migrants!

>>138894661
Ethno-Sky-Nationalist-Theonomic-Oligarchy

>>138879677
>How it got to that level in that society where everyone did it and didnt stop at the first loony tune is never explained and pretty shitty story telling.
It's pretty much stated that taking Adam was addictive so by the time anyone had taken enough for the bad effects like psychosis kicked in everyone was already hooked (and slightly crazy themselves at that point so rational decision making and effective enforcement of any ban kind of goes out the window).
Theres your back story, see it wasn't that hard to figure out....

>>138895332
One nation under (((god)))

>>138895424
>Nobody in the Axis wanted war
Agreed, but their actions towards the Czechs, the balkans, democracy in general and the /pol/ish made it easier for people like Churchill to advance the case for war. This is what I mean when I say that Nazi Germany aided in its destruction. See someone who knows about how they operated internally for how they were kinda sabotaging themselves.

>>138892253
Looks like the fedora missed the point.

>>138892169
>Almost certainly modelled on Toohey from The Fountainhead.
I'm also pretty sure that's the case. I don't remember if Levine said it directly or not but I remember one interview where when the interviewer just kept bringing up Atlas Shrugged as if it was the only inspiration that Levine definitely said the Fountainhead was a large inspiration as well.

>>138878048
I think a main theme is isolation from the rest of the world. And that power corrupts.

>>138895891
Alright, maybe the Nazis did sabotage themselves. But what about the Italians, they didn't harass other Europeans. (before you say it, Albanians are not people so they dont count)

>>138895632
*Brussels

>>138896444
>Albanians are not people so they dont count
Kek, don't worry we agree there. But what I will say is why would you get involved with a nation that even you know when things settle down will come for you and conceivable slaughter the southern half of your country? Not too mention at the point the joined, two of the axis members had already brought ample heat on themselves for actions in their respective theaters.

>>138896444
they kinda fucked up on their own if anything spain did it better and lasted much longer and it only went away once franco died he knew how to do it right.

>>138892126
What if the retard was willing to so that job for cheaper? Having the leader choose who you can and cannot employ seems pretty socialist

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>>138879895
Columbia was a utopia. Clean, beautiful neighborhoods, people being happy and friendly because of the ethnostate. And it all got destroyed because a bluepill was manipulated into letting the blacks and Irish out of their ghettos, creating unimaginable horror as the simple minded embraced leftism. Luckily this won't happen in the real world as our prophet Jussi Halla-aho will lead humanity to the stars with 1910s aesthetics

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>>138895813
Here is one of the first instances of Jews being tolerated in the colonies

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>>138878048
that you should have bought system shock 2 instead

>>138897070
>>138895332

what is this book, chief?

>>138896444
They did harass the Italians by killing their austrofascist allies in Austria. Mussolini hated Hitler, called him "degenerate creation". Later he had no other choice than to submit.

>>138894658
is this supposed to be bad?

>>138897450
https://www.libertyfund.org/books/the-sacred-rights-of-conscience

700 pages of first person historical documents about religion in the US

>>138878048
>city is simultaneously suffering from massive unemployment and a critical lack of maintenance, cleaning, and education staff.

It's about how Ken Levine is a hack who has made a career off of ripping off one of Warren's games

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>>138897699

Thanks so much.

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All the statists ITT get the FUCK outta my board.

You are not welcome here. Pol has always been an AnCap board.

>>138878048
So was his name being A. Ryan a coincidence?

>>138892672
>However in the long run we are all dead anyway
>admit we have a problem
Death isn't a problem, faggot. I couldn't be happier knowing that you won't live forever. Anybody who wants immortality is weak.

>>138897942
your religion is jewish

>>138895424
>Nobody in the Axis wanted war
They probably shouldn't have invaded neighbouring countries then desu :^)

>>138898035

Atheism isn't a religion you retarded fucking leaf

>>138894658
>'No!' says the man in Berlin, 'It belongs to his wife's son.'
FTFY

>>138898434
you ancuck religion is jewish I mean.

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>>138879956
>>138884167

>the strong are ruled by the ((weak))
>so obsessed with ((them)) that they ignore valid science and burn books
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik
>failed every time it was tried

you people are like communists, sure hope it worked well this time

>>138898672
loosing a war has nothing to do with the quality of an ideology

>>138898761

what has? The ability to actually make a stable society without starting wars either inside your own country because not all "homogenous" people agree? Or the fact that when they manged to drown other voices, they spiral into a superiority complex and mange to get into agressive wars and kill themselves?

Reality is the enemy of all ideologies which never worked before, but atleast there is still fantasy, for commies and nazis.
So i don't think they will be gone any time soon. Facts aren't required for ideologies to function.
Nazis knew that as well as the "post-modern" commies.
Either we choose their brand of anti-intelectualism, or we choose post-modernism.

I thought the message was that perhaps some laws and restrictions are necessary for a society to survive. Letting people shoot themselves up with whatever that drug was called ruined their society from within. Basically, Hoppe was right and degenetates must be physically remove

>>138898672
It actually worked well in Chile, Portugal, and Spain, it worked extremely well economically in Japan, Germany, and italy but they waged wars that resulted in occupation.
Republic of China was hardly fascist and Brazil I'm not up to date on.

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>>138898761

Your ideology has failed every time it has been tried, just like communism you dumb fascist leaf

Follow your leader and kys

>>138900752

spain sure worked well once they removed their own people who disagreed
>if we simply kill everyone who disagrees, the system will be peeerfect

communism worked well in yugoslavia too, too bad the people you disagree with aren't gone just because you remove them, they are born every second of every day

i suggest another ideology

>>138900778
your ancuckistan would be invaded within a week though

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>(((levine)))
Really makes me think

>>138878048
SPLOICERS!!

>>138879833
>I never read atlas shrugged
chekkked, tfw when brainlet

make and effort, its worth it

>>138878048
>muh property
>burns down the Forrest
Andrew Ryan did nothing Wrong.

>>138894661
Fascism is a government which suppresses dissent in order to maintain strict authoritarian control, so yes, it would be fascist, and it's definitely dictatorship.
It's pretty much what it would take for america to become a dictatorship.

>>138878048

The message of Bioshock is: "Hey wasn't system shock cool? Buy this game!!!"

and a generation of kids got fooled into thinking that they got anything close to a SS experience with this garbage.

>>138897942
>Pol has always been an AnCap board.
/pol/ is a Christian board, and while it's true ancap can only function in a deeply religious society, we also recognize ancap is the slowest path of human development

>>138878048
Bioshock is supposed to do for anarchocapitalism what Animal Farm did for communism. Here's the basic gestalt.

>have ancap society
>no regulations on anything
>scientific innovation EXPLODES
>scientists find a way to give people superpowers
>the side effects are like every single hard drug all at once
>meanwhile poor people are toiling away for less than a living wage
>muh 99%
>pinkos start getting high and wrecking shit
>more powerful weapons have to be developed for non-druggies to protect themselves
>city becomes a war zone
>successful businessman named Fontaine gives drugs to people and creates a druggie army to help him take over the city
>Ryan clamps the state down on him to prevent a coup
>REEEE THAT'S NOT ANCAP
>revolution intensifies
>eventually everyone is either dead or stoned

>>138882513
The "magic" makes sense if you believe that a lack of regulation will create unprecedented advances in technology.

>>138894839

>write story to talk shit about free markets
>invent a setting in which monopolies exist
>bash this strawman
>catastrophe commences
>???
>free market is literally fascism, goy
>PROFIT

Ultimately, the message is "Stay Natty"

>>138879895
I don't understand why everyone's hate Irish. Everyone shits on them and calls them niggers and posts the same picture of skulls that look like no actual Irish people. Meanwhike you all praise America even though they are less than 50% white and civic nationalism is more popular than racial nationalism

>>138905471
The English spread the meme that Irish are nothing more than potato niggers.

>>138905471
because you can fucking take it and im pretty sure everyone knows that the Irish are the toughest motherfuckers on the planet

>>138898672
so peacefully converting back to a democracy after the crisis is over is somehow considered failure?

>>138881099
They were. The proles started using drugs then they all went crazy and demanded socialism.

>>138878048
>what exactly was the message of Bioshock?
That Fontaine is a cunt
>what was the message of Bioshock 2?
That Sophia Lamb is a massive cunt

>>138906158
I think Bio 1 message is that wrenches can not only fix pipes but people's faces as well.

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>>138895644
>It's pretty much stated that taking Adam was addictive so by the time anyone had taken enough for the bad effects like psychosis kicked in everyone was already hooked (and slightly crazy themselves at that point so rational decision making and effective enforcement of any ban kind of goes out the window).
>Theres your back story, see it wasn't that hard to figure out....
thanks based bro for sharing, but gotta say that does sound pretty fucking stupid and hard to swallow that EVERY person used adam and these were supposed to be super smart people with no kings, no god etc yet they behaved like an adam cult...

Actually becoming some sort of adam cult inventing their own religion to fill the void of there being none would have worked anon! Why they not hire me make their games T_T cuz im not one of them with a hooknose, forever not a hooknose

>>138901706
Most of the people who disagreed were commies and globalists anyway. Fuck em

>>138906654
>EVERY person used adam
not everyone, but 99% of the lolstraightedgefags were dead by the time Bioshock happned
>and these were supposed to be super smart people with no kings, no god etc yet they behaved like an adam cult...
there were also a hell of a lot of blue collar schmucks who were treated like shit after building rapture, they started splicing up first and the super smart etc. used ADAM to defend themselves from the smelly communists with lightning hands. things just spiraled out of control from there

>>138878048
That it's a bad idea to build a city underwater

>>138906654
Well when your friends have the power to freeze or burn things with their hands or telekinesis you might go along with it. The only non explained point was why the main character did not go crazy.

>>138907366
>Well when your friends have the power to freeze or burn things with their hands or telekinesis you might go along with it. The only non explained point was why the main character did not go crazy.
well wasnt it that the only people who didnt go crazy become big daddy type zombies which is what happens to the main character?

>>138906654
Fucking with your DNA willy nilly will in fact lead to a bad time.
there is probably a message about peer pressure and drugs and such in bioshock somewhere
if a bunch of druggies were strung out on shit that made them shoot lightning and use their minds to throw shit at me I might be tempted to try and even the field

>>138879956
>communism only fails because capitalists beat it!
[Distant oinking]

>>138907222
>there were also a hell of a lot of blue collar schmucks who were treated like shit after building rapture, they started splicing up first and the super smart etc. used ADAM to defend themselves from the smelly communists with lightning hands. things just spiraled out of control from there
chek'd. and whoa that sounds kinda complicated... i gotta say i like the adam cult idea better :P did you like it?

>>138907512
>if a bunch of druggies were strung out on shit that made them shoot lightning and use their minds to throw shit at me I might be tempted to try and even the field
i dun think youd be tempted watching them lose their minds, i dont see you sitting round now shooting heroin anon :D

>>138907652
heroin doesn't give superpowers :)

>>138878048

The message was that if you strive solely to satisfy your own carnal and material desires, the world will unevitably go to shit.

>>138878048
It's an attack on the right obviously. Rapture was an attack on the libertarian right and the floating city an attack on the more authoritative/traditional right.

>>138907478
No, they were just as crazy if not more. They were bound to a little one and their only motivation was to protect them while they farmed adam, even after the city fell apart.

>>138907366
>The only non explained point was why the main character did not go crazy.
The events of the game only take place over a few days, maybe a week at most, people have obviously been abusing it longer than that based on the state of decay of Rapture and the fact that the place is packed with vending machines and adverts selling the stuff. Also, [spoiler]the protagonist is already crazy, brainwashed by Frank Fontaine[/spoiler].

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From all three, I found them to fiercely promote family. From my take:

Bioshock 1 -Libertarianism fails
Bioshock 2- Communism fails
Bioshock Infinite- Diversity fails

>>138908977
>system shock 2: transhumanism boogaloo

>>138907366
Another problem is the weirdness of plasmids being viewed as society-shaking superweapons when used for violence. It seemed most of the abilities they conffered had no real advantages over conventional weapons (I don't remember using plasmids much in that game, aside from the cases in which you're forced to in order to continue). I guess they're easier to conceal, but that seems like a limited advantage in a society where everyone knows they exist. I'm also unclear regarding Rapture's rules on possessing and carrying weapons. Some stuff seems to suggest that, as one might expect, weaponry was plentiful and unrestricted to begin with. Other things suggest that ordinary people were shocked and defenseless when attacked by splicer terrorists.

>>138887217
So my personal creed is communist. Damn that sucks

>>138886162
Look up 'The Apotheosis of Washington'

>>138905707

this. whites are white stop getting so easily trolled fucking mick

>>138891742
Rapture is literally ancap you faggot

>>138908977
I completely forgot the plot of Bioshock 2

>Youre a big daddy
>Some bitch has "control" of rapture
>just trying to get your illegitamite daughter back
>big sisters exist

what was it about again?

>>138912427
Lamb was a communist and the rapture family thing was basically communism

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No!
Moscow says "to each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"!

>>138890652
This desu people are shit

>>138912904
I need a mercedes m8.
gibs me dat

>>138878048

Don't harm loli

>>138910245
>Another problem is the weirdness of plasmids being viewed as society-shaking superweapons when used for violence
I definitely see where you're coming from. Plasmids may not be the kind of game changer they advertise them to be, but I can definitely see how things like swarms of deadly bees, more health and invisibility could come in handy

>>138907222
>there were also a hell of a lot of blue collar schmucks who were treated like shit after building rapture, they started splicing up first and the super smart etc. used ADAM to defend themselves from the smelly communists with lightning hands. things just spiraled out of control from there
no of that blue collar smuck shit is canon to the original Bioshock it was all introduced in Bioshock 2- SJW bugaloo with the intro of minorities

>>138878048
who is or is not "entitled" to what, or anything, is subjective

>>138901706
It literally does though. I don't agree with it, but it does work.

>>138905471

I think Bioshock did it because it was an easy way to project hypocrisy onto people that want control of their own borders.

>>138894661
Ethno-nationalist theocratic hereditary absolute monarchy? I wouldn't know what else to call Comstock.

Whatever it is, it's the system America deserves.

>>138912904
What is the greatest lie every created? What is the most vicious obscenity ever perpetrated on mankind? Slavery? The Holocaust? Dictatorship? No. It's the tool with which all that wickedness is built: altruism. Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their altruism. Never mind your own needs, they say, think of the needs of... of whoever. The state. The poor. Of the army, of the king, of God! The list goes on and on. How many catastrophes were launched with the words "think of yourself"? It's the "king and country" crowd who light the torch of destruction. It is this great inversion, this ancient lie, which has chained humanity to an endless cycle of guilt and failure.

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To this entire thread:


not an argument

>>138878048
That (((someone))) inevitably ruins everything beautiful.

>>138913916
Money and language are also both "subjective," but that doesn't make them any less real, dumbass.

>>138878048
There is no such thing as Utopia. The ancap paradise meme would fail. Even if you got it set up right, outside influences, even the commies you Physically Remove, will conspire to destroy you. In BioShock, Fontaine was able to fund his war chest with smuggling - creating a deleterious trade imbalance and eroding Rapture's self reliance. Ryan knew that Fontaine was a bad moral actor, but the leadership was unwilling to see that there was after all a legitimate use for government - to remove bad moral actors and enforce such punishments and embargoes as is necessary.

The real issue is Objectivism. Ayn Rand wrote her works on Objectivism to draw a contrast with the rampant Subjectivism that controlled her day, and still controls us now. Neither extreme is appropriate for a human society.

Ancaps and others make a fundamental mistake regarding human nature. They accept that men are imperfect, and we need some 'invisible hand' to guide us. They fail to realize that the flaws men are capable of go much deeper than selfishness and tyranny. Think about everything we know the Jews to be guilty of. In a pure Objectivist society, everyone would be Jews, inflicting massive suffering and anguish on each other. Not really a society at all.

As Hobbes wrote, the goal for any government is to guarantee its citizens their natural right to live in peace and security, so that men might be free from fear and need, that we might achieve Godly things and advance ourselves. When elements of society are swayed by pure Objectivism, all care for other humans goes out the window. You become a bad moral actor. It is then a race to the bottom for the worst elements of society.
Because they have chosen to be less bound by moral rules than you, allowing Objectivists like Fontaine or early-stage-Ryan to set up a free for all will always result in bad things.

We need governments of our own to keep us out of the chains of others.

>>138879895
>native american
>foreign hordes

so stupid desu

>>138914689

You don't know what's Libertarianism or anarcho-capitalism ... everything you said we believe/promise isn't true.Go study a bit please:

https://www.mises.org/

>>138890670
Boom boom akkik akkik boom akkik huhuhuh

>>138886171
I keep hearing how Ayn Rand hated libertarians but I would like to know what's the difference between the two.

>>138878048
The message once were subliminal.

Now they just add them to the story lines and people have an easier time accepting it.

If you played Bioshock, you're probably an atheist, agnostic or don't care about religion in your daily life after you finished playing the series.

Go read your bible.

>>138914444
Kek confirmed, Altruism is cancer of humanity

>>138879677
kek away

>>138881156
fontaine was a greedy nig who snuck into rapture. like roaches crawling

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>>138914799
guess you never heard of manifest destiny

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>>138878791
This, man is fallen by nature.

>>138913885
It's not as SJW as it sounds- basically shows that socialists are fucking savages that will tear down any society they don't think is "fair" and bring it to ruin.

>>138889742
Except that you don't.

>>138914444
>What is the greatest lie every created? What is the most vicious obscenity ever perpetrated on mankind? Slavery? The Holocaust? Dictatorship? No. It's the tool with which all that wickedness is built: altruism. Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their altruism. Never mind your own needs, they say, think of the needs of... of whoever. The state. The poor. Of the army, of the king, of God! The list goes on and on. How many catastrophes were launched with the words "think of yourself"? It's the "king and country" crowd who light the torch of destruction. It is this great inversion, this ancient lie, which has chained humanity to an endless cycle of guilt and failure.
Quads of truth.

>>138878791
This is the most profound and insightful post I've ever seen on /pol/

why are leafs so based?

>>138889531
>collapsed
You mean it took almost the entire rest of the world that mattered to destroy a country and its tiny ally barely 2% of their size, one of them that just got off its feet again from and with barely nothing and the other got literally just out of the feudal times with more human and about equal capital losses on the side trying to destroy it.

>>138917368
leafs know a lot about falling