CAT/POL/ Thread — Second edition

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>DON'T take the bait from paco posters.

>DON'T start bitching about language or which culture should be dominant, a few generations from now it's going to be NEITHER.

>DON'T get demoralised by trolls or people claiming to be spaniards, they will have similar problems in due time.

Sweet music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-1Bw70mFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lw8nH6dQIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKpMO8rkBLA

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H-Hey we should unite m-maybe?

“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by God! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet.

Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

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>>138875251
>>138875251

Sure, we'll end up just like the copts. Our daughters getting raped and then forced conversion to Shitslam so they "keep their lives".
Begone. We know too well how you scum operate. Every single manor house on our coast has a tower FOR a reason.
Things are fairly fucked up here in regards to immigration and specifically with moorish immigration. Catalonia is in the middle of what is called the Cote d'Azure Banana, on big concentration of moors from Monaco to Valencia, near the coast. They came here after gates opened up and we entered the eurozone, mainly because they are near to friends and family on the other side of the border. The french ones came on the seventies and we all know how it turned out there.


There are around 300 (the last number is 250 but I don't think we should count on exact data on that) mosques here. Nearly one third of them salafists and controlled by imams with funding from Arabia and the Gulf.
Main areas of population are plain of Segria and Lleida, Tortosa, Reus-Vilaseca-Tarragona, coasts, metropolitan area of Barcelona, plain of Vic, Girona and Salt.
The main collectives (and growing) are Senegal, Nigeria, Gambia (blacks mainly on Girona and north), Morocco, Algeria.

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>>138875742

Pic related

>>138875742
Ungrateful puta, we gave you paper >:(

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>>138876124

You gave us nothing Abdelrahman. Except gold as tribute to keep your sorry lives intact. And even then you chimped out.

>>138874284
Do you guys support Basque independence? I heard they were commies

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>>138874284
Only thing I can say is that after the muzzie attack those who already didn't want muslims still hate them and those who're multiculti retards keep being retarded. Maybe they're more like "well we should increase security or something" but they don't blame the muzzies for what happened in Barcelona.

>>138878000

Ain't commies, but nationalists. They staterd when Spanish socialists tried to centralize the state during the late XIXe century, an impossible feat in pre-Franco Spain.

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Catholocism promotes race mixing

>>138878000
Yes. The commie bogeyman is a meme, it's tiring hearing the same thing over and over again.

>>138878000
We don't care much for Basque independence really, except for lefties and commie youth. They have a hardon for basques and their weird movements. The gals (and cuck followers) imitate them on every shit 'fashion', haircut, speech. You name it.

I think most of us understand that they have a good position inside Spain and they would be fools to change it (practically independent on everything).

ETA is not well liked here by the majority of people since the Hipercor massacre.

>>138878521
>>138878645
Thanks, the only reason I asked is because ETA's wiki page says they support "revolutionary socialism". I hope to visit Basque Countru one day

>>138878720
Is Basque Country worth visiting? I'm interested in their language because of its uniqueness

>>138878521
Most of basque nationalists have fairly good relations with Spain and Castille, even after the whole ETA fiasco they are well liked. Lot of common history and admiration.
They have always tried to get on the good side of Spain since the Carlist wars. And thus they have preserved pretty much the structure of self govment from ages ago.

ETA are commies and faggots.

>>138878720
>not supporting the basques for their own independence
Cmon Jordi...

>>138878882
Yes it's a nice place. But it's small so think about visiting other places too.

>>138878720

It's not weird per se. Commies are schizophrenics when it comes to the state's role in their little larping about the proletarian dictatorship. One one side, they want a complete decentralization of the power of the state, like Lenin's Soviets during the Revolution, and on the other side they seem to understand that massive centralization is the only way to keep it tight.

Lusting for ETA is the first face showing off, reminiscing of the Cortes fantasmed role in your history as local counter-power of the king (I wonder, are they still reminiscing of the Cortes de Cadix?).

>>138878882
Very much worth it, if you can. Even the main cities are not so shit as in other places of Southern Europe in regards to immigration and degeneracy. At least when I went there.
Lots of beautiful green countryside, nice chaps and good food.

I personally prefer Asturias but its up there on the top3

>>138879333
I've said that I don't particularly care for it. Just as they don't care for us. Two different worlds and mindset.
They have always done their thing and most often than not allied with the modern state on key issues.

If they want to push for a sovereign ethnostate that's fine by me but I don't think they get a bad deal at all inside with the shekels

>>138880010
>but I don't think they get a bad deal at all inside with the shekels
Yeah castilians have always sucked the basque cock.
Anyway if we had the same deal wouldn't you still want to be independent? Then they think the same.

>>138879721
>>138879721

Yes. They hold it as the great pinnacle that we should aspire to, the start of 'civilized Spain' and the standard that must be applied to each 'nation' in the peninsula.
Not knowing (or ignoring) that the place that most resisted it and had fought against it was Catalonia. During all Carlist uprisings and before.

But for them history of the fight for sovereignty is only from XIX onwards (liberal efforts).

>>138874284
>catalan
Is Catalan independence a meme like Californian independence or are you in any way distinct from other Spaniards besides your economy.

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>>138881001
Take the catalan redpill my friend.

>>138881232
So it is just idiots doing it for economic reasons.

>>138881503
Are you retarded? You're more similar to the english than we're to castilians, think about joining the UK.

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>>138880836
I would want for border control, monetary and trade policy, taxes, law system and change the "democratic" rigged game.
So yes, in the current political situation that means total opposition against globalism, liberal world order and modern states.
But for them I think that a cultural rebirth to combat degeneracy is in order before attempting anything that might make them even more slaves. Also more babies.

>>138881001
Ask concrete questions and we will try to answer. We can't make you informed on your own neighbors if you don't want to be.
Speaking of California, a lot of them went to the Americas to explore and establish misiones with support of the jesuits and Hispanic Crown. They were the first europeans to settle those lands. So yes, sovereignty of the Principality precedes even the name of California.
Make of that what you will.

>Pic related, born on the town of my great grandfather.

>Let's have a civil discussion
>90% of the posts are crybabies whining about the Castillian boogeyman
Wew, I'll never take Catalans seriously.

>>138881503
Lot of different factions and demographics want it for different reasons.
Modern man is materialistic, soulless and centered on the economy, so of course the main pragmatic point for the campaign is focused on finances. Bc it's easy for people to see were the money is being spent or wasted, and they are pissed about that.

But without a common sense of nationhood you just would not have the numbers to support it really. Now we can discuss about if you feel that the sense is well grounded in historical fact all you want but that won't change the meme (as you've put it).

>>138882216
What would you like to do about taxes? Realistically speaking ofc.
I'd lower them for the middle and high class as well as for businesses to incentivate entrepreneurship and wealth/job creation. Also make it attractive for sompanies to stay here. That would imply cutting welfare but it's a needed measure.
I'd only raise taxes for the lower class because almost none of them are catalan and they receive most of the gibs. Also give additional tax cuts to certain groups like rural areas, families, and such.

>>138882489
If you enter and steer the discussion to other areas we will welcome it (see last thread).
If the only people here are asking questions on it we'll keep the thread bumped either way.

Not seeing many anons crying here, xiquet.

>>138882489

As >>138883220 sait, the discussion here is quite entertaining, and somewhat free of shitposting. And Castilian aren't the boogeyman here, if that was the case, we would aslo root for the rattachism of Galicia to Portugal and the independence of Leon, Asturias and Andalusia.

To keep it related, for me, the whole Catalonia independence move is very similar to the Scottish one, except the former can sustain themselves. Contrary to Scotland, who hopes at best to do what Norway does with their oil reserves (though they have very few prospects in reality) Catalonia is more economically diverse and dynamic for that purpose. They could do it, and they know that. Do you have any hindsight/rebuttal to this?

>>138883052

Cut regulations on water use for agricultural sector.
Dismantle at least a third of natural parks or protected areas.
Open up construction laws for rustic zoning.
Cut incentives for all energy sources, stop buying the green meme. Open up the market to other providers.
Stop the squatters rights laws and enforce the removal.
Easy the approval process for new industrial zoning.

Those things can be done at a regional level without even having to touch taxes and everyone would benefit. But the fight would have to be monumental to even touch one.

As for taxes a man can dream. They have to be tied to land ownership and resource control, not income. Usury controlled and regulated. Remove IVA & IRPF altogether. Give financial benefits to stable man-woman couples with children, bypassing the whole marriage redefinition fiasco. No single moms on welfare, no benefits to non citizens.

>>138884801

>Cut regulations on water use for agricultural sector.
>Dismantle at least a third of natural parks or protected areas.
>Open up construction laws for rustic zoning.
>Cut incentives for all energy sources, stop buying the green meme. Open up the market to other providers.
>Stop the squatters rights laws and enforce the removal.
>Easy the approval process for new industrial zoning.

>But the fight would have to be monumental to even touch one.

Hoo boy, you don't say. It's literally Trigger the Leftist:the List. By the way, how is Podemos doing in Catalonia? Do you have data on this?

>>138884223
As they see it we receive more than we put in. They did not publish the full numbers for many years and the couple of years they did it was free ammo for independendists here in Catalonia so I wouldn't be surprised if they cooked the numbers somewhat for matters of national security.
The reality is that we will never know for sure, even if there was secession. We could easily crash if they get us on a state where the populous does not have confidence on the economy of the country.

What I will say is that we have not recovered as well from the recession and we are not as strong as we were. Corruption and exponential growth of gvment and burocracy here at home is seriously hindering us. Always being the victim of the 'powerful opressor' meme does nothing to better the situation

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>>138884223
>Do you have any hindsight/rebuttal to this?
Spain really depends on us and that's why they won't let us go without fighting. With only 16% of the total population of Spain, we have 19% of the total GDP, 26% of exports, 24% of industrial production, 24% of high-tech workers and receive 26% of tourism.
Not only Catalonia but any non-capital region of any country that's richer (per capita) than the average will be better becoming independent than remaining in said country.
But in the times we're living maybe the best to happen would be a hard economic crisis. All immigrants would leave and normies would quit their bullshit and become more traditional again.

>>138885119
Podemos is doing similarly as the PSOE did in the late 80s and 90s, the same letfie voters for gibs with new rebranding as SJWs. Plus a few more voters from the greens and 'federalist' memers. Everyone in catalonia knows them for what they are and I don't see a way for them to grow. Hit the ceiling really.

Don't know if I can find it but last week one anon posted a comparison map between spanish migration/demographics and podemos votes. Let's see if he appears.

>>138885696
>>138885780

Interesting. As I see, the gambit in an economic one, with one side thinking the other is some king of ungrateful asshole. For what it's worth now, Spain should have centralized it's economic activity to prevent the independence, but it's probably too late now. Your country never centralized enough for this, and historically you were quickly put behind france and England, because the Genoese inflitrated your state apparel to rob you of the New world riches by forcing you into keeping an eye in Mediterranean, where it was useless, except for them and the Aragonese.

On a somewhat related note, the Basque country does seem quite rich too. Bilbao is such an economic center? Is it because Santander is located here, or?

>All immigrants would leave and normies would quit their bullshit and become more traditional again.

Wet dream, imho. immigrants are too poor to gtfo, and it would take more than an harsh economic crisis to destroy the social system put in place. It would need a full-blown european war, and the subsequent privations.

>>138886875
For what I've seen there is quite a lot of movement of moors/muzzies between Catalonia, Valencia, other regions of Spain and the Cote d'Azure. They don't stay more than a few years on each place and move to another town if they can find cheaper houses or more gibs.

So there is still hope on that front. If we could cut all the welfare and require work permit seriously only for nationals and high end jobs. At least one fourth of them would self deport.

Basque country and Navarre are fairly wealthy and have a good financial deal, negotiate each year taxes one of one with the Congress. Get a bit more than they put in but they have sensible gvment spending. At least Navarre.

They did try to centralize for centuries but historically the geography and demography of Spain hasn't helped. If you look at the 1700 wars as a battle for the political dominance of different poles of power it makes much more sense. Different elites with different projects and aspirations for Spain.
Although there was a great deal of confluence and intermarriage before and after. It's not after the formation of the liberal state of Spain that they get definitely the upper hand and greater control over other regions.

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amunt!

>>138886875
>Is it because Santander is located here, or?
It is because of demographic factors and economic ones.
1. Basques are an intelligent and capable people.
2. Unlike in Catalonia, they received much less spanish immigration than us and also those immigrants were the best Castile could offer, we got the worst.
3. Despite being so rich they barely don't have third world immigrants.
4. They have a special economic system where they can set their taxes and collect them without giving anything to Madrid. Only the Basque Country and Navarre have this privileged system.

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>>138884801
>Cut regulations on water use for agricultural sector.
Dismantle at least a third of natural parks or protected areas.
Open up construction laws for rustic zoning.
Cut incentives for all energy sources, stop buying the green meme. Open up the market to other providers.
Stop the squatters rights laws and enforce the removal.
Easy the approval process for new industrial zoning.
I don't like these ones, they will screw rural areas and bring immigrants there. Whatever is done, protecting the people and specially where native catalans live is a must.

>>138885119
Podemos is more of a protest vote, hard to say how good they're doing because it depends very much on the type of election and the voters. In the last general spanish election Podemos got the most votes but in the last regional catalan election they got 5th place.
As this indicates Podemos is a party voted by the descendants of spanish immigrants who live in the Barcelona metro area and work in industrial jobs. Pic related is where it won in the last spanish elections.

>>138891781
Also forgot to say that the Santander is based in Cantabria, not the Basque country.

>>138892770
Dude, It's nearly impossible to grow anything on the countryside because of all the expenses and redtape on every single action. It's even difficult to own a couple of acres for self-sustenance. They are depopulating farms and making new forests like there's no tomorrow.
The only future for the rural areas is to move to cities, try to get in the tourism bandwagon or die. Their kids (of course) sent to uni to get brainwashed and whored out.
Agenda 21 playbook.
Of course there should be border control and crackdown on illegal workforce first.

>>138893521
I'd take an approach of dignifying rural life and taking farming as a serious job. Plus measures to raise the birth rate ofc.
Getting rid of regulations is also good but without endangering national parks and forests. Everything must be done so it is sustainable for the people already living in rural areas, if we start building factories there traditional catalan areas will be detroyed.
What I fear the most is not foreigners but the scum living in the metro areas. This process of suburbanization started like 20 years ago and much of the outskirts of Barcelona and Tarragona have been transformed into Andalusia 2.0. Take the Baix penedès for example, once a traditional catalan land of farmers is now a xarnego hotspot of Podemos voters.

Nowadays prosperity means suicide by immigration and degeneracy. Sometimes it is better to lay low and go unnoticed.