Thoughts about Unitarian Christians?

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Heresy.

>>138872297
Why? they debunk the trinity by using the Bible itself

>>138872378
Not everything is in the Bible.

>>138872439
Develop? What do christians refers to besides the Bible?

>>138872558
Tradition, Church teaching, Church Fathers, Revelation, Prophecy

>>138872711
Do you think that what the church teaches is more important than what the Bible offers?

>>138872800
No, it just supports it. Where the Bible is in conflict with itself, we should look first to the case supported by tradition. If the Trinity is wrong then just about every Christian in history has been fundamentally mistaken about the nature of God. That is literally billions upon billions of souls. Innovation is heresy.

>>138873042
Mh...

>>138872161
Biblical Unitarian Christian here.
There are two types of "Unitarians": Biblical Unitarians, like me, who have actual theology and philosophy rooted in Christian history, and "Universalists", who are hippie freaks who don't even follow the Bible. Don't get us mixed up. Obviously I believe that our Theology Proper is correct, but I wish we could be more high church. Our practices are too Protestant. Also I think that Catholic Canon is right. In other words, I do indeed believe that God is one and there is no other an that He is only one Person (The Father), but I think we need MASSIVE reform. And many of us ignore systematic theology, which is a shame. In other words, we are on the right path, but massive work needs to be done.

>>138872800
This and checked

>>138873042
Not at all friend. Just because people were wrong about A does not mean they were wrong and B or C, etc.
A great argument against the Trinity can actually be derived from Summa Theologica; Aquinas says (and rightly so!) that there can be NO division within the Godhead, right? AND that the Divine nature, being perfect, cannot be added to, subtracted from, nor divided in itself. Therefore, there can be only one personage in the Godhead, and that is the father.

"Billions of souls in hell." Narrow is the path brother.
"Innovation is heresy." Innovation? How is it innovation when it has roots in theology and philosophy? Doctrine =/= innovation. Besides which, where does it say innovation is heresy in scripture?
Besides which, your argument here >>138872711
is largely an argument from tradition, which is condemned in the Bible (Isaiah 29:13). Remember: the Greatest Commandment is that our God is One God (Deaut. 6:4 St. Mark12:29-34)

>>138872558
Philosophy and Theology, among other things. Sola Scriptora is protestant crap; don't let us fall into their mistakes.

>>138872161
Unite with what? Foreskins?

>>138872297
Calling it heresy doesn't make it so. Not an argument.

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>>138873042

This is false. Locke, Newton, and Milton, three of the finest intellects in English history, were Unitarians. What used to be the central proof of the Trinity, the Comma Johanneum, which justified it for centuries (in the same manner as the fraudulent Donation of Constantine did the Catholic Church) was in fact nothing more than an interpolation and a lie. You may read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Sir Isaac Newton directly took pains to prove its falseness, and wrote about it at length.

Jesus Christ expressly says: “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).

>>138872161
I don't really have positive thoughts for them. The one in my home town has signs all over the Church saying it is committed to "social justice" and has a blacklivesmatter banner hanging from it. To do causes for "social justice" is to replace God with man which is the opposite of Christian teaching. No true Christian is a Christian to make a better society, make things equal, or make a better government, although Christianity will lead to all those abstract concepts if followed through. But you are a Christian because you believe it's true, and if true, is of infinite importance.

Churches like that are really social justice machines under the guise of Christianity. Christianity teaches many things that contradict many social justice movements. It's a sham Church overall, so I think very little of the Unitarian faith

>>138872297

fpbp

>>138876405

The majority of the founding fathers of your own country were either Unitarians or Deists.

Protestantism is the only truie christianity.

Non-trinitarian Christian here. Give me your best prooftext and I will refute it.

Do not cite works by "church fathers", please. I get my theology solely from the Word of God, not from the words of men.

>>138872378
John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.
In John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one.
In John 14:9 He said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father.
In Colossians 1:15 Paul wrote that Jesus is the (visible) image of the invisible God.
In Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is called the exact representation of God’s glory
In Hebrews 1:8 God Himself called Jesus God.
God’s Spirit is presumed to be one and the same with God just as your spirit is presumed to be one and the same with you. So if God and Jesus are one and the same, and God and His Spirit are one and the Same, then the three are one.

There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:5-6). Yet there are three persons presented as deity in Scripture: the Father (John 6:27; Colossians 1:3), the Son (John 1:1-3, 14; 8:24; 20:28-29; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17; Acts 5:3-4; 2 Samuel 23:2-3; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Lastly, these three are presented as distinct persons (John 8:16-18; Luke 11:1; 3:21-22; Galatians 4:6). Thus from Scripture we learn that although there is one God, there are three distinct persons who are deity. So the Trinity is the biblical position to hold to once one examines what Scripture teaches.

>>138873042
>Where the Bible is in conflict with itself,

This is why your church is able to lead you to hell.

>>138876026
Do you really not know that the Trinity is One God?

>>138876102
>Let's mix the holy with the profane; surely nothing evil can come of that.

>>138876402
>Jesus Christ expressly says: “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).

In the sense that the one sent, Jesus, is less than the one doing the sending, the Father.

The Trinity is still One God.

>>138878479
>>138878698

>>138878698

I have to find fault with the very first line in your post.

>John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.

Nowhere does it say that "the Word" is Jesus. The word in Greek is "Logos" which means Speech, Reason. The idea of the connection between the Logos and God is a concept derived from the philosophy of Plato and Heraclitus.

>>138876402
Throwing out parts of the bible that Origen didn't agree with is a really good way to be a heretic, like Origen.

>>138879192
Keep reading.

John 1
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

>>138879192
Ditch the foolishness of men.

>>138872161
The word "trinity" its not a biblical word and it literally means three when Jesus very clearly said in Mark 12:-29

"Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE."

God is a spirit as Jesus said in John 4:24

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Jesus is a part of Gods spirit that was separated and born into the flesh. Matthew 1:20

“Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is literally a part of God not a separate entity thats what he means when he says that he and his father are one and whoever has seen him has seen the father,

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 10:30 "I and my Father are ONE."

Trinity means three and is not biblical God is ONE

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I'd like to add pic related to the discussion.

>>138879350
Trinity does not mean three. Tri means three. Unity means One.

>>138879350
>Trinity means three and is not biblical God is ONE

The Trinity is One God Who manifested Himself as three persons so that we might get to know Him.

>>138878802

How can you possibly contend that one is three and three is one? It defies rationality itself. I do not think that Thomas Jefferson was at all far off the mark when he said, "I should as soon undertake to bring the crazy skulls of Bedlam to sound understanding, as to inculcate reason into that of an Athanasian."

>>138872378
Impossible since the trinity is the truth.

>>138879448
*three entities

>>138879354
Exactly. Co-equal, Co-eternal, Co-divine, Unity. One God.

>>138879472

One threefold God.

>>138879561
Three persons in the Trinity, One God.

>>138872161
So what, theyre Neo-Cathars?

>>138879256

Yes -- "Logos" became flesh, in other words, a being was created imbued with the highest attributes of speech and reason. Or will you contend that Jesus Christ was somehow identical with rationality and speech itself?

>>138879638
The logical extension of "God is one and the trinity is three" is to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, and to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Ergo, not Christians at all. Cathars were dualists. God was both good and evil.

>>138879718
I reject your absolutely insane notion that neo-platonism can describe God better than the Word of God can describe God.

>>138879718
1 John 2
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

>>138872161
Wicked evil. one of the powers that be's attempt at creating a prototype for their one world religion. One of the schools I used to go to was a Jesuit school, for all the rich kids and many important people went to that school. Once I overheard the jesuit "priest" say to a muslim student that all religions are the same, heresy of the highest order.

>>138880064
Mary gave birth to the Messiah.

>>138879896

The Bible was written in Greek, not English. The word Logos has a very special and particular history in the ancient Greek tongue, and it is widely admitted that the author of the Gospel of John was influenced by Platonism. You may look it up if you please.

>>138880064
(Which is why I take issue with people who call Mary the Mother of God. Kind begets kind, always. Calling Mary the Mother of God is calling Mary God, just as Jesus calling Himself the Son of God caused Him to be accused of blasphemy.)

>>138880170
Jesus is the Word of God.

Revelation 19:13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Ditch the foolishness of men.

>>138880170

What universe did Plato create?

>>138878935
Lets deal with one at a time.

John 1:1

Clearly "The Word" is referring to Jesus when we look at the rest of the chapter. How can Jesus both be with God and God?

The original Greek has a "the" in John 1:1 that translators leave out (look it up if you doubt me). But it serves a purpose. Here's the most literal translation of John 1:1...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with THE God, and the Word was God."

Now it's a bit more clear what the passage is saying. Jesus is not THE God (The Father), but he has inherited his Father's divinity.

"In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the Deity, and Jesus was Deity."

Jesus was with the supreme deity, his Father. He shared divine nature, but was not THE supreme deity. Jesus is God in the sense of being divine like his father.

Bible worship is idolatry not placing other gods before me INCLUDES a collection of testimonials agreed upon in Nicaea under the protection of the Emperor. The bible is the word of man and worshiping it as the word of god is is and of itself heretical

>>138880472
>How can Jesus both be with God and God?
Trinity.

>was with THE God
Trinity. There is only one God.

>Jesus is not THE God (The Father)
The Father is not THE God, either. The Trinity, One God, is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

>>138880653
The traditions of men can be idols, yes, but the people who hold their traditions up to the level of holy writ also have idols. Literal idols.

>>138880305

"Philo (20 BCE – 50 CE), a Hellenized Jew, used the term Logos to mean an intermediary divine being, or demiurge.[7] Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect Form, and therefore intermediary beings were necessary to bridge the enormous gap between God and the material world. The Logos was the highest of these intermediary beings, and was called by Philo "the first-born of God". Philo also wrote that "the Logos of the living God is the bond of everything, holding all things together and binding all the parts, and prevents them from being dissolved and separated"."

"Philo, and the Alexandrian Jews, to whose philosophy John referred, understood, by the Logos of God, some celestial nature which existed before the world, but which had emanated from the Deity." - Kuinoel

>>138880707
This isn't a refutation of anything I said. It's just reading the trinity doctrine into John 1:1.

Do the Father and Son and Spirit share a mind? Are there any thoughts they hide from one another?

>>138881047
Philo never wrote about Jesus, and you're counting on him to speak of Jesus.

You are an idiot.

>>138881434
Each has one unique attribute revealed to us:

You can blaspheme the Father and Son and be forgiven, but you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit;

Only the Father knows when the Rapture will be; and

Only the Son knows His new name.

>>138881434
>It's just reading the trinity doctrine into John 1:1.

Yes, it's properly reading John 1:1.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt with us.

>>138883416
*and be forgiven

>>138881434
The Word Who became flesh and dwelt with John was, in the beginning, and with God, in the beginning, and is God.

Do you understand that?

>>138872161
Never met one, which is nice.

>>138872161
No different than their goat fucking cousins

>>138872297
/thread

>>138872161
Those lolis are clearly Orthodox though

>>138886489
>using anime pedophile language on a Christian board

>>138886489
Even I can see that without clicking and I never knew a thing about orothodox until the past few years.