What went wrong?

>>138752019
Hitler..going to Stalingrad ..when he should have focused Moscow

>>138752319
just like with talibans the US creates its own enemies

>>138752164
Why didn't he get Japan into the Operation too? They could have attacked USSR from the East

>>138752164
>Hitler..going to Stalingrad ..when he should have focused Moscow

Nonsense. He should have prepared more, took the anglos out of the war first , and played nice with stalin until he closed the other front first.

>>138752608
>Why didn't he get Japan into the Operation too? They could have attacked USSR from the East

They wouldn't attack Russia.

>>138752019
mother nature is jewish

zerg rush
/thread

>>138752019
attacked too late then lost to the winter

>>138752608
>Japan
>Being able to handle China, Russia, and the Pacific all at the same time

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>attacking Soviet Union without having a nuke first
Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Uranus
Read the fucking name of this operation
READ IT

>>138752953
They could or atleast split soviets to 2 fronts. They dont have to win just make casulties

>>138752608
>What is Khalkin Gol?

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>>138752953
They still won the Russo-Japanese war though

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>>138752019
How Germany could have won the WW2
>Had operation Barbarossa started on time instead of 2 week delay because of Italian fail in balkans
>Had Hitler listen to his Generals
>Had Japan attacked SU from flank instead of being pussies and just pillaging poor villages and civilians
>Not oppress Ukrainians who already hated communists and
>start War production UP from start like in the end days

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>>138753154
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnBZ4UToLwQ

>sub human germanics attacking slavic Master Race and expecting to win

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>>138752937
>lost to the winter
Should've brought more Finns, you fucking retards.

>>138752019
Hitler declaring war on the US, politically facilitating massive additional war materiel shipments to USSR. Hitler was a moron.

>>138753092
That was 30 years before. Japan fought a few border skirmishes between 1930-1939 with russia and got their ass whooped pretty bad in the last one,so they agreed to a censor fire and suspension of hostilities. The russians didn't push back at the time because they were worried about war with Germany being a possibility.

>>138752019

Every German officer read De Caulaincourt's memories of the russian campaign. Every one of them knew that even if you did a perfect run against the russians, blowing their armies into pieces, winning every single battles, their winter will fuck you up if you let it happen. This time, not only you had superior tactics, you also had hardware supremacy, manpower and even the doctrinal supremacy, as Stalin decapitated his high command by killing Tukachevsky and so much high rankings during the Purges.

But you launched the offensive in June. In fucking June. A sane man would look at the russian map and instinctively know that it's near impossible to cross all the way to Moskau in this time. You did not, and your army froze to death, while the soviets brushed it away like every winter since the fucking country exist. And in the end, you fucked up harder than Napoleon, the man you tried to learn about to not make the same mistakes.

>>138752019
Hitler was not a military mastermind, people here usually compare him to Napoleon or Trajan. He was good at speeches and little more.

>>138753092
Becase Imperial Russia was absurdly shit and Nicolas II was a massive cuck.

The Soviets swept the entire Manchuria in weeks, and those were some of the best the Japs had to offer.

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>>138752630
He didn't want war with Brittain, he didnt want to fight people that he found very similar to Germans. That is why when he saw Stalin amassing a huge force in the east, Hitler mobilized his army to crush the communist threat. Too bad he didn't learn from history and invaded Russia during the winter... I love Hitler but cmon you should have seen that coming..

http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion.cab

>>138753499
They actually neglected the IJA in favour of the IJN.

>>138752019
There's a whole board for this you retard
This board is for politics
>>>/his/

>>138753092
Look at Khalkin Gol, Japan Amrt was garbage.

>>138753734
It was 1 battle. Nothing means that in next try they would do better. And that battle was at start. After it japs got scarred and never tried anyhitng again

>>138753551
>He didn't want war with Brittain, he didnt want to fight people that he found very similar to Germans. That is why when he saw Stalin amassing a huge force in the east, Hitler mobilized his army to crush the communist threat. Too bad he didn't learn from history and invaded Russia during the winter... I love Hitler but cmon you should have seen that coming..

I know,but I talking about what he should have done. He should have flossed one front of the war before starting another one.

>>138753271
the finns barely did anything, they occupied their old land and refused to do anything else

>>138753734
USSR & Mongolia:
>61,860–73,961 soldiers
>498–550 tanks
Japan:
>30,000 - 38.000 soldiers
>73 tanks
Well what did they expect lol?

>>138752019
>italy BTFO by greece
>germany pls come halp
>delayed operation barbarossa
>attacking in winter
>germany BTFO

>>138753395
June was the start date because of the weather. In reality they lost because they thought that the Soviet state couldn't withstand the hammer blows they were about to deliver - and pretty much any state but the Soviet Union would have collapsed from that.

They knew about Napoleon's campaign but unlike Napoleon they planned to destroy the Russian armies close to the borders, which they did, then they crushed the second wave of reformed and newly created Soviet units. No other state could have taken these blows, not then and certainly not today.

>>138752630
It's not exactly easy to take Britain. It would have taken years to build the fleet and that is assuming Britain wouldn't build more ships or the USA wouldn't join in.

>>138752164
Barbarossa was the opening in 1941, Stalingrad was Fall Blau 1942.

>>138753358
Khalkin Gol was Japanese light/scouting forces against a mechanized Soviet force with major air support.

Japan didn't want to commit more because there was nothing to gain except frozen steppe, the real Soviet riches were in Central Asia, the Caucasus, Urals and Ukraine.

>>138752608
Their hands were more than a little tied.

>>138753499
The Sovs faced the dregs of Japanese military in Manchuria. The Americans had killed the best of the Jap formations long before, you bolshie faggot.

Some of you guys have History Channel level knowledge, you should read a World at Arms by (((Weinberg))). Yes he certainly hates Germans and it shines through, just like his worship of Roosevelt but it's nevertheless a great view at some of the strategical aspects of the war beyond 'omg they were too stupid to bring winter gear'

>>138754401
>The incident began on 11 May 1939. A Mongolian cavalry unit of some 70–90 men had entered the disputed area in search of grazing for their horses.
mongol mongol

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>Goring

lel

>Go on herr soldier, go on... leave me be while I drink this 900 mark bottle of wine and smoke my diamond encrusted cigar

>>138752019

Because Hitler was a complete retard. It was necessary to listen to Guderian and others, and not to come up with stupid ideas, such as turning the Army Group Center to Kiev, when the road to Moscow was opened. Even if Hitler had defeated the USSR, the allies would have fucked him anyway.

>>138753841
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
Ideal Blitzkrieg

>>138754053

Problem with Russia, and it was already the case with napoleon, is the sheer size of the thing. You can crush as much russian armies as you want, there is still plenty ogf land to reform, and they do have, contrary to a somewhat popular belief, big, if not huge, centers of population in the Ural and in Asia proper. And the russian buffer was smaller during WW2 than during the war of the Sixth Coalition.

>>138754590
Always prefered Himmler desu

>>138754720
Taking moscow would be it. It was major population and economic hub. This would not be Napoleon this time

>>138754604
They captured over half a Million men in the Kiev operation and the Ukraine had a ton of agricultural as well as mineral ressources, it also opened the road to the Caucasus. Whereas taking Moscow cripples the Soviet rail system somewhat but doesn't do much more. They'd still have to hold it over the winter, and that is if they can take it in the first place.

>>138754720

Yeah of course, their whole assumption was that Russia would break fast, some of the Wehrmacht command thought Barbarossa was won after 2 weeks because of the massive victories.

I think the best move would have been to dig in after the Kiev operation and maybe get Leningrad, then go for the Oil in the second year.

>>138754710
It's called Deep battle, pleb.

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>>138753154
You talk shit you meme flag faggot

>>138752019
Hitler.

>>138755485
Pls no bully Dolfy

>>138755001
Taking Moscow doesn't do much to hurt the war making potential compared to taking Ukraine. The Ukraine was so much more important than Moscow, the Soviets were close to starvation after Germany took it, American shipments helped keep them alive.

>>138753395
Attack lasted many years but it was the winter well ok surrender monkey

>>138755252
Russia has always been a super centralized state. The loss of Moscow would completely paralyze the state. Kiev would have fallen without the participation of the Army Group Centre. Hitler gave the USSR time to pull up reserves from the East and lost.

Ruskies OP! RUSKIES MASTER RACE!

Hahahaha. Dumb ass nazis thought they could take out the Ruskies on their own land! Hitler was a fucking dumbass.

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>>138752164
The Japanese military was divided between the Navy and the Army. Each force had it's own political party and their own military-industrial complexes. The Japanese Army had their war in China and the Navy wanted a war so they wouldn't look weak in comparison to the Army. If Japan had invaded the USSR it would have been another front, and more glory, for the the Army. So in order for the Navy to have their war they needed to fight at sea in the Pacific.

>>138755902
Was supposed to be in reply to this
>>138752608

Hitler rushed.

Had he taken out the weaklings first, then waited another 10 years or so to rebuild his various armies, he could have just started picking people off 1 by 1 until getting them all Instead he went against everyone at the same time and couldn't maintain it.

Hitler would have won the long term game against Europe. USA, I'm skeptical. Russia could have been done, but he was doing too much already.

>>138755609
Hitler was such a brilliant strategist that he did not foresee the US intervention, which by that time was openly hostile to Hitler?

>>138753551
He invaded in June

>>138752608
He tried. However Japanese decided to go for pacific instead of USSR. That was very stupid in hindsight.

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>>138754590
>>138754935
Both Wrong, Heydrich Master Race

Mussolini acting like a trigger-happy moron and jumping the gun on the balkan campaign, fucking it up, forcing Hitler to delay Barbarossa while he helped save the spaghettiniggers asses, and then by the time he was set to invade Russia, it was getting later and it ended up pushing into winter.

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>>138754405
>tiny islands with 40k men top
>meanwhile battles at manchuria involved 200k or more

>>138752019
Not talking out the UK.
He should of got the British Isles as he would of then controlled the Atlantic plus making an American invasion difficult. He should of them focused on the desert and secured the oil fields in Iraq. Then invaded Russia. Having multiple fronts is a bad idea and was hitler downfall in the end.

>>138756156
An invasion isn't an instant thing. He needed to invade earlier to prevent the invasion from dragging out into winter.

He also should've headed straight for Moscow instead of worrying about Stalingrad. It seems he was treating the Russian invasion using 19th century strategy instead of 20th century.

>>138753154
You forgot the most important part

>Not attacking UK and France, since their phony war was just a tantrum

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>>138752019
Dumbass started a land war in Russia. Right before winter.

>>138756566
It started in June ya pinhead, although starting it in March would have been better

>>138756129
He did predict it as did everyone, that was one of the reasons for the invasion, it's hard to have a Soviet-US alliance when there's no Soviet union. I just mentioned the starvation to show how important the Ukraine was in that aspect alone, there's much more to it obviously.

>>138756856
March is bad to invade in Europe, May would have been ideal but floods prevented it.

Mr. Mussolini invaded and cost Hitler a spring/summer invasion.

>>138755001

>Taking moscow would be it. It was major population and economic hub. This would not be Napoleon this time

Russia has several of those. Look at Yekaterinburg, who was the de facto economic and industrial capital of the USSR during WW2, and was nearly the political one if Stalin didn't grew a pair.

>>138755252

>Russia would break fast

It's a fucking tropism, even the russians think it's the case, look at >>138755865. The truth is that only two armies managed to take Moskau, the french and the Mongols, and the latter only won because, at this time, Russia couldn't have that fallback plan called Ural, since it wasn't colonized, and because the fucking invaders came by this side. Russia is more resilient than it looks, even today, their army is crap, but I won't bet on a victory if war broke out.

>>138755624

Retard spotted. Germany lost the initiative during winter, by being effectively halted by the Red Army. They used this situation in quite the efficient way by developing their industry lost in Ukraine, relocating those near Moskau at Yekaterinburg, and drafting new divisions. The Wehrmacht's logistic struggled to even give warm coats and food to the soldiers, who literally froze to death in the steppe.

>>138756129

>Hitler was such a brilliant strategist that he did not foresee the US intervention, which by that time was openly hostile to Hitler?

Hitler's only military success was to reiterate the Schlieffen plan against France. Every high ranking german officer though it would fail. It succeeded because french high command was actually more retarded than him, and the german tankists were high as fuck on meth, keeping the pace needed to exploit the breakthrough. His second genius idea was to backstab Russia while having a front againts UK, and we are debating about it to show, not if it could have succeeded, but HOW MUCH it was retarded to do so.

>>138756351
He looks like he's Jared Kushner's grandpa.

>>138753395
attack was initially scheduled for early May 1st or 15th

However it was repeatedly postponed because of weather, a late spring and the rivers were swollen, making it impossible to cross them

Also, Italy had attacked Greece and needed German assistance, which diverted valuable resources to the Greek theater. Some German units, such as the SS, did not join Barbarossa until mid-late July, as they were transferred from the Balkans.

>>138752019
Romania and Hungary can't be on the same side

>>138755902
Would it hav been possible for both sectors to agree on things like handing industry over to the other side in time of need, the Imperial Army in China lacked Artillery for example, how could they have possibly convinced the Navy-industry to hand over some factories, at least it would have resulted in future Navy and Artillery cadetts to practice,the industry could expand econmically and retain expertisee in Cannon-manufacturing.

A flexibel and more vital use of the Navy would most likely have been to start producing tactical vehicles for the swamps and great rivers of China, this would have allowed the Army to make the attack more rapid, use Manpower more effectively by spreading the frontline out and resulted in much better supply routes, combat improvemnt would be only a small bonus.
This would especially be practical when the Chinese Units carried out floods in the Areas of the Jangzhe river.

What do you think?

>>138757174
You misspelled Italy

>>138752019
Insane land grab failed when hitler ran out of manpower.

>>138758334

SS divisions wouldn't have made much difference during the initial start, considering the state of the the russian army: abysmal morale because of the Purge and the NKVD commissars, no tactics, no preparation whatsoever (Stalin was even in total denial while Schulenburg talked about the invasion a few weeks before the start). Waiting for them was one of the mistakes.

>>138752019
You need lots of manpower to hold a frontline that huge.
Also you loose it constantly even without advancing the frontline because of attrition caused by a lack of supplies bad climate and terrain.
Plus they are getting shelled shot and bombed.
All stalin did is wait for the germans to run out of manpower.
Plus the south frontline was full of under equipped and low quality units from hungary italy and romania

>>138752019
And the blitzkrieg doctorine was made for flat and small countries with decent infastructure.
You cant drive tanks and supply trucks in mud

>>138752019
TIGER TANKS COULD NOT BE REPAIRED ON THE BATTLE GROUND
>GERMANS LOST MORE TANKS TO BEING LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE THEY BROKE DOWN THEN TO RUSSIANS
FOR EVERY ONE TIGER THE GERMANS HAND CRAFTED THE RUSSIANS BUILT 100 T-34S IN AN ASSEMBLY LINE
>HITLER DEMANDED HIS ENGINEERS FOCUSED ON THE OVERLY COMPLICATED TIGER INSTEAD OF BUILDING MORE PANZER IV'S
HITLER WAS AN IDIOT

>>138752019
Having Italy as an ally

>>138758493
this
neither of them could watch germans flank