EU Superpower

No. The Soviet Union taught us that merging multiple countries to create a super power doesn't work out.

>>138743627
>You might disagree with current EU policies - but that is an entirely separate point.
How is this separate?

>>138743627
>Huehue and poo poo
>super powers
About as super as your inbred little island faggot, aren't you leaving the EUSSR anyways?

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>>138743781
>salty americuck mad because his status will get threatened

>>138743868
Because the policies of a current government/leadership are separate from whether a government/leadership should exist at all.

Otherwise it would be like you saying "I don't like Donald Trump, therefore I think the US should no longer be a united country".

>>138743627
No, North/South/East difference is too big to be in the same structure. It'd have to be a very flexible system, at some point it might become too inefficient. If you want smaller regions doing some type of union, that's fine. Then maybe we can help each other restore our former empires.

This is assuming we've regained control of our countries and destroyed the kikes, which isn't looking good honestly. Frankly the biggest problem with a federal europe is that for it to work we're either being led by some genius god-emperor and it works out, or the decisions of the federal govt have to be unanimous- meaning every individual state has to approve. This last one is much easier if you do smaller regions.

>>138743627
There's only one superpower out there - USA.
It has absolute financial, economic, cultural and military supremacy.
>inb4 muh nukes
Nukes are more of a defensive weapon, you can't really project power with them.

>>138743627
They are pushing this RN but I don't think it'll work.
The goals of the seperate countries are just too different, as are the cultures.
It'll hold a few years if they go full federal gov, but I guess it'll fall apart if they'd keep all current countries in the EU, especially the east and south would't take their shit for long.

>>138743627
Not one state but a very strict military alliance and border patrol unit, also a European passport The common identity will probably emerge through the common military .

>>138743627
WE SUPER POWER NAO

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>>138745714

no superpower yet?

>>138743627
Denmark first
Nordic brothers second
Everyone else last.

Fuck your attack on our sovereignty.
Længe lev Hendes Majestæt Dronning Margrethe. Guds hjælp, folkets kærlighed, Danmarks styrke.

>>138744285
Its more like "This entire governmental system is rigged to deny us any say at all and it should cease to exist or radically change"

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>>138745144
>>138745246
>countries are too different
We've managed to co-exist in the EU for quite a few years now. My theory is that the main problem is a lack of DEMOCRACY. I think if the EU was more democratically accountable, then people across Europe would be happier with it.

At the moment, few Europeans know who the European parties are - EPP, PES, ALDE. Can you imagine a national election where you didn't know who the national parties were?

So they need to publicise themselves more. That's the only way they can make themselves properly accountable to the public. At the moment they're not. They're not even forced to take up distinct positions on important issues (like immigration, levels of integration, etc.) because of this lack of visibility and public scrutiny.

Thing is, if you look at the future of the world, with big powers like the US, China, Russia, etc., it might well make good sense for the EU to remain a thing, to give us lots of clout around the world.

>>138745161
Their supremacy is declining with the rise of China and other emerging economies. Picture related, the US share of the global economy has been declining since 2002.

>>138743627
Nah, Europe is a leprosorium for US lefties and an elderly care house in one. It should stay like that

As long as Germany doesn't rule it I'd be fine with it.

>>138745482
>what is nato
>what is schechengen
>what is EU citizen

A united EU would be a international socialist state where west/nord EU gibsdat to southern europe, like it isnt the case today.

EU is nothing but a organisation for politicans to steal money and increase frances and germanys power

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>>138745482
Yes I'm not saying one state. Just a Union, like we have now, but it needs to be more democratically accountable, I strongly believe that.

>The common identity will probably emerge through the common military .
Maybe, but I think more democracy is also needed for a common identity. The European parties (pic related) need to campaign *as themselves*. At the moment, MEP candidates only campaign on a *national* party platform. It's a bit like if American politicians only campaigned on a state platform, rather than a national platform.

This makes the EU parties basically invisible, which is why they're effectively unaccountable to the people of Europe.

>>138746063
I believe in radical change, absolutely. EU parties are not visible enough right now - they are not doing their job of earning a mandate from the electorate. Turnout in EU elections is declining every single time.

They need to do that job better - governing is a privilege, not a right, and it has to be earned from the people. Otherwise the people will rebel, like Britain has just done.

>>138745997
I'm not trying to attack your sovereignty - if the EU does continue to exist then it needs to be FAR more democratically accountable than it is right now. So it absolutely needs to do this. But still, the EU together can be more powerful than apart. Why is the US able to afford the biggest military in the world? Because they're a large country. They pool all their tax revenues, of course. Europe could be like that.

Free trade, yes. Everything else, no.

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>>138745960
Soon my brother, soon
our time shall come

>>138745161
USA is declining. That's the faith of every empire.

>>138747227
If USA is declining, I don't know what Europe is desu. At least USA isn't committing cultural and racial genocide by willfully importing refugees. The way I see it America is trying to redeem itself while Europe is not even ready to acknowledge the refugee problem.

>>138743627
Brazil is a superpower?
Kek

>>138744285
>salty americuck mad because his status will get threatened
What a retarded fucking thing to say man. We each don't represent the our governmens here lel

>>138746152

>We've managed to co-exist in the EU for quite a few years now.

European nations have managed to "co-exist" due to NATO and large numbers of American troops on the continent keeping the peace. And this co-existence only exists if you completely discount the Yugoslav wars and the current crisis in Ukraine.

The Yanks say that they bombed Serbia because they couldn't stand back while Serbia was "genociding" other ethnic minorities. This reasoning falls flat when you see what the opposite was also doing (Why not attack them as well?). The reason for intervening was to send a message, that if you try to provoke a major war that risks engulfing the entire region, that the US will stop you from doing so. The US had already attempted to peacefully solve the crisis, but they quickly realised that talks weren't going to work. They recognised, ultimately, that it's not trade or economics that stop nations from going to war with each other (this was a common attitude prior to the first Great War, read the The Great Illusion), but it is the threat of overwhelming force by a superior power.

The European Union is destined to fail in this regard because it has neither the authority to impose a strong-arm to prevent these conflicts from occurring, nor the tangible power to do so. Any attempt at "democratization" of the EU further will lead to parties representing only the interests of the multitude and diverse ethnicities and cultures in Europe. Factionalism would be inevitable, as a Brit, consider what the SNP is like, but this time consider that there would be a dozen or more, all demanding more power and more money. We have faced two major crisis since the 21stC began and the EU has been unable to counter either, making the situation so worse in-fact, that one of its main contributory member states voted to leave. This is due only in part because of corrupt and useless leaders, but more due to the nature of a union created from over two dozen nations.

>>138747227
Indeed it is, and we could take their place.

>>138747657
>At least USA isn't committing cultural and racial genocide by willfully importing refugees.
Instead it's Mexicans and Central Americans. Wow such a big difference. And they already have tons more blacks than we do.

>The way I see it America is trying to redeem itself while Europe is not even ready to acknowledge the refugee problem.
That's false, many Europeans are acknowledging the problem - that's why we had Brexit. And it's why Poland and Hungary are refusing to take in any migrants.

>>138747676
Yes I know that Tyrone... but it would still affect Americans as individuals if you were no longer the world's superpower.

>>138748616
>Instead it's Mexicans and Central Americans. Wow such a big difference. And they already have tons more blacks than we do.

And their current government at least acknowledges it as a bad thing and is trying to curb immigration

>That's false, many Europeans are acknowledging the problem - that's why we had Brexit. And it's why Poland and Hungary are refusing to take in any migrants.

Well, general public or Poland or Hungary won't be making shit for decisions. Let's be honest if a united Europe happens Germany, Uk and France will be calling the shots. Real power exists with them. With Merkel set to win in Germany and Macron running things in France, I don't think it will end well for anyone involved.

>>138747658
If that place was run by anyone else but brazilians,you would be

>>138744285
>Spends centuries mocking Americans
>Wants to become like America
Like pottery

>>138743627
I support a USE but I don't support the EU or its self-destructive policies.

>>138743627
How could the EU become a superpower if they are all vassals to the US?

Are you suggesting Europe would actually rebuild its military and defend itself? Or just continue to be a modern day Carthage utterly dependent upon Roman protection?

>>138743627
United Europe? Yes.

EU Europe? Fucking no.

t. graduate of the Kai Murros University

>>138743627

If you have 6 superpowers then they aren't superpowers.

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>>138743627
will never happen when you can't bomb Libya for 2 weeks

>>138748187
>but more due to the nature of a union created from over two dozen nations.
When the United States was born, the colonies resisted the idea of centralised power at first. But eventually they relented because they had a common interest in centralising - they could be more powerful by uniting.

In the case of the EU, every country that is in it VOLUNTARILY signed up to it. Nobody forced any country to join the EU through conquest. So while every nation might have reservations with it (like the US colonies did with the federal government), they agreed to a union for their mutual interest.

>Factionalism would be inevitable
Nope. Just like in the US, federal politics are not solely comprised of "the Arkansas Party" and "the California Party" etc.

>The European Union is destined to fail in this regard because it has neither the authority to impose a strong-arm to prevent these conflicts from occurring
Europe has already created centralised powers to quell threats. The European Arrest Warrant. Europol, the European police service. The EU military (yes it already exists, in a limited form).

I don't see the EU collapsing, it makes no sense, because it means the European nations will devolve to infighting. Some of the countries are grumpy (just like some of the US colonies were). But there are rich (Germany) and poor (Poland) countries that are strongly interested in the EU project continuing, because they get economic growth, and an avoidance of war and conflict.

>>138749859
Sorry no money all the gibs go to Wallonia.
Or some other retarded social program.

>>138749292
>And their current government at least acknowledges it as a bad thing and is trying to curb immigration
Just like the British government, and the Polish and Hungarian governments - in fact I'd say most EU governments now realise they don't want an entire mass of migration. And the EU itself signed that deal with Turkey FOR THE PRECISE PURPOSE of keeping the migrants in Turkey, away from the EU.

>Well, general public or Poland or Hungary won't be making shit for decisions. Let's be honest if a united Europe happens Germany, Uk and France will be calling the shots. Real power exists with them. With Merkel set to win in Germany and Macron running things in France, I don't think it will end well for anyone involved.
In the US, yes the most powerful states have clout (Texas, California, New York) but that's only because of the size of the population of those states. The EU is the same - representation in parliament is based on population, not wealth.

>>138743627
NÓS SUPERPOWER AND MERDA

fuck no, get the fuck out of here with that horseshit

i am fine with european cooperation, but never a full union

>>138743627
You guys won't ever be a superpower as long as you continue to import countless feral niggers and mudslimes.
Trust a US citizen, our niggers destabilize us regularly and will always be a problem, but our niggers have been somewhat domesticated over the centuries (they're mostly Christian, speak English and value the American lifestyle even if they're not always controllable).
It will take Europe decades, if not centuries to resolve the issues their wild niggers are going to bring with them and frankly, your white folk are far too timid to do anything about it.

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>>138750392
Never?

>>138749962
>Nope. Just like in the US, federal politics are not solely comprised of "the Arkansas Party" and "the California Party" etc.

because people from Arkansas and people from California are all still American

America has a shared identity based on immigration from Europe

A united European identity will never exist

>>138750496
You can start helping by like not bombing North African countries.
Don't give the commies opportunities.

Take it from a EU citizen.

>>138750565
never

as a smaller state, our culture, tradition and language would be absorbed by the Germans or possibly the French.

Any united nation would seek to integrate the minorities into the dominant cultures

This would actually end up playing out just like the old Frankish Empire, where it split into three Empires, but this time it'd be French / German / British

>>138743627
Of course. This is my life goal

Make Europe a superpower. Remove ethnicities and replace them with a big European identity. Then focus on preserving our racial sub-groups from different regions so we can keep our diversity.

I wonder if we can meme a far-right European federalist movement into existence.

>>138743627
If its current USSR 2.0 no.

If its EU rebuild, which gets rid of extre beurocracy, idiotic brussel parlament and all people responsible for current imigration crissis get 9mm aspirin treatment then yeah.

Early 2000 EU was going on right track building union but not going overboard with laws/beurocracy and so on.


But in curent form the EU will kill itself.

>>138750735
>muh diversity
We are stronger together.

>>138750720
Certainly. However, I'm sure Europe can prevent them from making it to your lands. Trump has reduced border crossings by nearly 70% and that's entirely a land crossing, I think the Mediterranean would be easier to prevent crossings if Europe had the will to do it.
Don't fall for the lies that there is nothing your govts can do, they told us here that there was no way to stop the spics and Trump put a massive dent in it within half a year.

>>138750735
How's about an extremely loose confederation?

>>138751000
that is why I'm in favor of European cooperation. Some sort of military alliance and a free trade agreement is fine. Anything beyond that is too much.

I mean, if it would be able to work, I'd be fine with a federal Europe that kept all ethnicities alive and protected Europeans from outside harm. But I just don't think it would survive for very long due to internal differences

For fucks sake, just look at how fragile the Belgian government is and apply that to the entire continent. It's impossible

>>138751166
see >>138751221

as long as the sovereignty of the states would be intact, I wouldn't be against it

>>138743627
Yes, but only because my nation is worthless. I would be opposed to it if I was French, German or British.

we ruled the world at eachothers throats

europe was a sharks womb, and should be again

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I don't care if they become a super state or not, as long as britain isn't in it they can do what they want

>>138751221
It's the banks bro. That's why it will never be reasonable like you desire.
They see the power and wealth opportunities and they need more and more. They're not happy if countries can maintain some control there. It will never stop as long as they're are Jews running central banks

>>138749509
Because you're still fat and dumb and we're still slim and smart.

>>138749557
As I said, disagreement with the current governance of the EU is a separate issue to whether the EU should exist. Otherwise it would be like saying "I don't like Obama so I think the US should stop being a country altogether and should break up into the individual states".

>>138749634
Our military combined is comparable to yours. In fact in some areas it's larger - we have more personnel and more tanks.

>>138749749
As I said, the question of current leadership of the EU is different to whether European to be united.

Otherwise you are effectively saying that if you don't like the current government of the US then that means you think the US shouldn't exist as a country at all.

>>138743627
Who would want to share a country with subhuman snowniggers that depsite us? No way

>>138751366
>at least 95% white
you're fine dude

>>138749859
I still think the EU countries are intentionally weakening their military, so the EU army will be more accepted by the population.

>Do you support the idea of the EU becoming a United States of Europe?
Winston Churchill spoke positively about the United States of Europe, in Churchill's speech he spoke about The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan that would take place once EU is united.

>>138749962
>But eventually they relented
Completely false. They were either illegally annexed or forced through war defeat by Lincoln and the Union.

>>138743627
Yes.
Any of the EU countries, and that includes the UK, will not be able to stand up to any of the current or rising superpowers on its own. That's just facts. Nukes won't do shit when China has their own and they outperform you at every step thanks to slave labor and industrial espionage.
The UK has always the option of becoming an official stationary carrier for the US post-Brexit, but if the other former empires want to maintain relevance in the coming decades, they need to keep together.
The problem of the current EU is there doesn't seem to be anyone with enough balls and enough vision to push it forward. They're good at being bureaucratic nerds, but it's not enough when you need to bring people together.

>>138751504
>post Pan-Europeanist

>>138751623
>Our military combined is comparable to yours. In fact in some areas it's larger - we have more personnel and more tanks.

That's not true.
>the annual defense budget of the European Union (which still includes the UK even though they recently voted to Brexit) is $227 billion or 3 times smaller than United States annual defense budget of $664 billion.

You have 0 supercarriers so you have almost 0 global power projection.

>>138743627
I'd say it could work.
However, it requires a Goal.
Soviet Union had 'creating communism'.
When it wasn't created despite the hasty work mode stopping and being replaced with wasting all resources on cushy life right now - it failed.
USA had beating the commies.
Now they're eating themselves due to lack of a great goal.

People in general need a Great Goal, the Enemy, that kind of shit they can contribute to by just living their lives, by just being normal, patriotic citizens.
Pick a goal for Europe and it will shine.

>>138751442
Smart man

I identified as balkanite until I saw syrians come to my country. I saw thousands of them in 2015 and became an alt-rightist.

Aren't you pissed the pan-European idea is completely hijacked by leftists? And the worst kind of leftists. I'm so pissed we can't have a far-right European continent and control immigration by blood like Israel.

>>138749962

>When the United States was born, the colonies resisted the idea of centralised power at first. But eventually they relented because they had a common interest in centralising - they could be more powerful by uniting.

States in the US != European nations. Nations that have existed for hundreds of years, nations that have been at war with each several times, nations that have unique languages and cultures and nations that today still hold grudges against their former rivals. The re-integration efforts in the US after the Civil War took decades if not longer to achieve. A Union comprised of European nations will never work for the reasons listed above, they are far too unique and that uniqueness would have to be destroyed in order to create the European super-state. Something that should not happen.

>In the case of the EU, every country that is in it VOLUNTARILY signed up to it.

They voluntarily signed up to a trading bloc, one of the principle reasons for British voters rejecting the EU was because they did not want to be part of a political union, regardless of any "global influence" they may get in the process. Peoples of Europe have fought time and time again for their own independence from foreigners, regardless of any benefits that they may receive on the global stage. Polish people present in the German Empire prior to the Great War may have had more "global influence", but they had exactly 0 influence on the main German Government. In a democracy voter numbers count. Nations with larger populations and larger economies would inevitably dominate other smaller nations in any proposed political union in Europe, and once again the smaller nations would find themselves fighting for their freedom. You are inviting war into Europe once again all in the name of greater influence in global affairs.

Cont.

>>138751221
How do you envision this working in the long term though? If the cooperation is successful it's inevitable that each culture would be watered down and become indistinct over a few generations. Merging and assimilating would be the natural course from there.

You'd all learn the lingua franca, you'd all travel a lot and use the lingua franca extensively until your native languages started to seem irrelevant.

It's just the fate of small polities to merge into larger ones over time.

>>138752555

>I don't see the EU collapsing, it makes no sense, because it means the European nations will devolve to infighting.

As previously stated the EU contributes in a minor manner to peace on the European Continent, it has been primarily kept by American forces and dominance over Europe since the end of the Second Great War. On the contrary, if you are to force a political union with intensely centralised powers that will ultimately be controlled only by the nations with the largest population you are inviting war. You cannot destroy culture and identity that has been present for well over a millennia in some cases. Every Empire in Europe has tried to do so, and every one has failed. Some differences are too much to gloss over, and language is principally the worst of them all.

>But there are rich (Germany) and poor (Poland) countries that are strongly interested in the EU project continuing, because they get economic growth, and an avoidance of war and conflict.

Economic Growth? The European continent has taken a significant amount of time since the 2008 Recession to actually recover from it, even today in the Mediterranean nations they still suffer its effects. It has been almost a decade and the EU administration has failed completely and utterly in this regard. In regards to your examples, Germany is interested because it is an exporting nations who profits immensely from being part of the EU and its lead economic power-house. Poland benefits due to the subsidies it receives from the EU, an essentially form of bribery to ensure that they remain in the project, and without it I suspect they would have left already.

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>>138751221
>>138751292
Once upon a time, the Netherlands was but a collection of states.

>>138751802
That's like saying Albania or some Caucasus shithole is fine.
>>138749962
>The European Arrest Warrant. Europol, the European police service.
Another illusion. In fact they don't work. For example, Croatia put out the highest warrant to Europol to arrest Zsolt Hernádi, a Hungarian national, and months later he just visited Austria and Germany multiple times without being touched. The Austrians and Germans just dismissed the warrant and basically told Croatian authorities to shut up.
Now imagine the military working the same way i.e. the way that the French and the Germans like and fuck everybody else.
I'd give EU federation a decade at most before the first armed rebellion and civil war. And I don't mean that a country's government would rebel, I believe that a coup like the Ukranian one would first be necessary after which you couldn't dismiss it as a single government rebelling and complete chaos would ensue.

>>138752617
>If the cooperation is successful it's inevitable that each culture would be watered down

what?
if the cultures are being kept separate how is that going to happen?

>>138752718
with a shared identity, which is why it worked

>>138752728
>That's like saying Albania or some Caucasus shithole is fine.
but they're not white

The USA has cracks starting to show and its just a matter of time that China will inevitably become the economic super power, and Russia the military.

It would be nice to have Europe unified and become the next superpower, with it being white; its the only way that the human population can be kept in check and not destroy itself and the planet...

But, it needs to be unified, and that will never happen unless you are of one language and culture.

>>138743627
I'd rather have the Commonwealth unite into something similar to the Imperial Federation

>>138743627
I hope that the EU will dissolve. United States of Europe sounds like Soviet Union 2.0.

>>138743627
I support common defense policies and some internal lowering of trade barriers with europe, particularly those with similar GDP per capita.

Not a common currency, not a single language, not a single culture, not a single militiary, and not a single political system.

What the EU has done is insane and anti-white, but we should co-operate.

>>138752819
>but they're not white
They are. You should move away from the Atlantic sometimes.

>>138751940
You're talking about the civil war which was much later. Anyway, in a way you're right I guess - might makes right. And the EU has a lot of powerful interests in support of it.

>>138752756
You're speaking English right now.

Cultures aren't kept separate when there is constant exposure to other cultures. Free travel throughout Europe and completely integrated economies will erode cultural differences over time.

Your country exists because its people were kept relatively isolated from others for centuries, allowing a native culture to develop. When cultures are in constant contact with each other it's just a matter of time until they merge into a single culture.

Fuck off we want Independence

>>138753267
Yes, it was much later. But it was the first great test of the Washington DC's power and they failed to use it without resorting to a civil war to achieve their policies.

>>138746152


China isn't a threat. Piss poor economic management, corruption, and a demographic time bomb is what will keep China from becoming a superpower.

If a new superpower arises, it will be a resurgent Russia.

>>138752718
Shared Culture, identitiy language and history.

>>138743627
no.
CCC

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>>138743627
The kikes would rule over all of us anyway so what would be the point?

I'd support a united Europe that isn't importing millions of shitskins and that isn't ruled by Jews.

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>>138743627
> Oswald Mosley and Hitler supported a federal Europe, so why don't you?
This is how you know it's a jew puppet talking.

>>138752909


We might be "showing cracks", but China will never be a superpower, economic, military, or otherwise.

>>138752819
>with a shared identity, which is why it worked
There's a lot of Europeans who have a shared identity, Arjen.

>>138753002
But Indians are pooskins. Surely being allied with white people is better.

>>138750739
thats because you are from a pretend country

>>138743627
i like the idea but i dont know how you would make it work. definitely not by flooding it with murderous arabs and worthless niggers though

>>138753566
Same with Europe. We have a shared history. We're all white, we're all Christian. And English is increasingly becoming the lingua franca.

>>138752718
Flemish, Brabantic, Hollandic people had shared culture and language though.

>>138753940
Lol maybe only the anglosaxons and the germans, but no way we want a state with the french cucks and spanish catholic bastards

>>138752718
so was Austria-Hungary

>>138753756
Dunno about Hitler, but Mosley ardently supported a united Europe after the war.

>>138743781
tbf it did make them a superpower, their economics just fell apart because they were commies

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>>138743627

The EU will not become a superpower, because there's a huge gap between the people of Europe and the Eurocrats in Brussels.

Such as the undemocratic methods of the EU (backdoor meetings and agreements to bypass national referendums), the overpaid salaries of eurocrats, the unelected EU commission, the unelected and unaccountable "president of the EU", the "one economic policy" for different economies, lack of protection of EU borders, unemployment, increasing poverty, mass immigration.

The European Union cannot survive the way it has operated for the last 10+ years.

>>138754083
We should genocide the French and repopulate France.

>>138753410
The Confederates were the ones to secede, and then to fire the first shots at Fort Sumter.

>>138754040
I will never speak english in my own country and im Pagan

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>>138753962
You think you are different to me but if we are in a room and one black person walks in he'll be more different than us two. Countries and ethnicities will be useless to us in the next 100 years. It's time for the pan-European federation.

>>138753315
How do you expect Dutch to survive as a first language for centuries to come? It's so easy to travel now and even easier to communicate and do business with people far away that your people will progressively use your mother tongue less and less and your mannerisms and culture and diet will become less and less distinct from those around you.

I know it's frightening but your people were cut from the same cloth as the Germans to begin with so is it really so terrible for your two peoples to merge into one again? All of Europe can trace its foundations to a blending of Germanic and Roman culture to some degree (even Russia is named after a Germanic people). And before that, Latins and Germans were themselves just two separate branches of the Aryan people who conquered Europe.

>>138754201


Because Lincoln refused to remove the Federal garrison at Fort Sumter, thus provoking a desired war with the CSA.

>>138743627
no

>>138743627
>You might disagree with current EU policies - but that is an entirely separate point. I am just talking about a federal Europe in principle.

This is what I've been saying for years. I am 100% fine with pan-Europeanism and the EU as a concept. What I hate is the leftists morons in charge.

>>138743627
I would support it if it weren't for shitskins and Jews.

>>138753940
>There's a lot of Europeans who have a shared identity, Arjen.
not enough

>>138754239
Yeah and before that aryans were united with negroes.

Also dutch is living and thriving, we shall never surrender.

>>138754239
>>138753276
by staying independent it'll survive

this idea of yours that cultures will erode through interaction on a global level is complete bullshit

Latin should be the main language if it were to happen. Would be good because people would be less insecure about speaking it than they would be towards English.

>>138743627
I don't support the idea. Any other questions?

>>138754572
>latin
>not old german

fucking traitor to your ancestors

>>138754560
Laten we anders gewoon Nederlands spreken tegen deze globalistische Amerikaanse dikzakken

>>138743627
The EU will only become a superpower if it unites with Russia

EU: abundance of advanced technology and financial capital, shortage of skilled labor and fuel sources
Russia: abundance of skilled labor and fuel sources, shortage of advanced technology and financial capital

They're perfect for one another

>>138754470

This.

It hasn't even been a century since the last major European conflict. You can undo millennia of culture, nationalism, and bad blood in less than a century.

The only thing that kept Europe playing nice with one another is the big bad Bear, the end of colonialism, and the influence of the United States via NATO.

Remove all of that, and European powers will have issues again over conflicting national interests.

>>138754742
maar dan worden we weer gebanned

>>138749373
Gee I wonder who is responsible for the racial composition of the Brazilian

>>138754673
I'm Welsh.
Roedd fy hyafiaid siarad yn Gymraeg.
Also, English people are more native British than Anglo-Saxon, genetically.

>>138754769
>The EU will only become a superpower if it unites with Russia

that would hurt our economy, what are you talking about

>>138743627
Oswald Mosley, Hitler and Napoleon all lost buddy. Don't you get it. Your drive for power turns the truly powerful against you.

>>138750739
дa ми гo јaдeш кypoв бpaнкo

>>138743627
>Brazil
>India
>superpowers

>>138754875
>welshman
>wants a united Europe with a single language

what the fuck, your culture would die out in a decade

>>138754957

India will become a suPOOpower by 2030

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>>138752276
>MUH
>MILITURY

>>138754980
No, it won't. It survived the Romans, the Irish, the frogs and the Anglos. I'd rather speak Latin than Welsh anyway. Like, a quarter of Welsh is a retarded version of Latin anyway (e.g. terra = tir; mare = mor).

The EU super state is inevitable.
They're already building an EU army. They probably have hidden nukes and the EU hosts the most intelligent minds in the world.

I can't wait.

>>138754906
No, it would be a symbiotic economic relationship that America and its satellites in Eastern Europe would be incapable of messing with, a Moscow-Berlin-Paris continental axis is the only way Europe will be able to stand up to us on its own

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>>138755091
Fucking kek'd.

>>138755125
Traitor

>>138749373
>>138754836

Brazil is a super power, but only by virtue of having natural resources, not human achievement..

>>138755151
>They probably have hidden nukes
plenty of nukes out in the open here in Europe dude

>>138743627
Hitler supported conquring Europe, not uniting it

>>138743627
not much risk whether they do or don't since all of the countries that bankroll this failed experiment are going to collapse thanks to their humanitarian immigration policies

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>>138755151
>i can't wait to be overrun by kikes

>>138755208
Most Welsh people can't speak Cumrag anyway.

>>138755242
I mean nukes that they can freely use, have created and have ICBMs.

Only France and the UK actually have nukes. But Germany most likely has hidden nukes.

>>138753536
>Piss poor economic management, corruption
Those are certainly threats. But they exist in Russia too. And it won't necessarily stop them becoming large. China eventually allowed the development of the free market didn't they, when they saw the gains to be had. No reason to think they won't adjust again when needed.

>demographic time bomb
The fertility rate in China has been increasing since 2000 (while the US fertility rate has been decreasing)

>If a new superpower arises, it will be a resurgent Russia.
Russia already had their time in the sun. Sure they're resurgent, but they don't pose as big a threat as China. Also, they have a relatively strong alliance between each other, stronger than alliances they have with the West. So that could be a problem for us.

>>138755191
>a Moscow-Berlin-Paris continental axis is the only way Europe will be able to stand up to us on its own

hahahaha, do you really believe that?
Europe wouldn't need Russia to be able to stand up to the American economy you fool

>>138754534
>Yeah and before that aryans were united with negroes.

Lol, not really. Aryan ethnicity and culture developed in isolation for thousands of years, easily long enough to shed any affiliation with any other group they may have been anciently related to.

Each region used to have its own distinct people and language family. Today the Aryan language family spans not a valley but half the world.

>>138755315
>Only France and the UK actually have nukes

we also have nukes

>>138755398
Source?

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>>138743627
>>138750536

The more likely scenario is eventually a union of the Americas (North and South America). They have much more in common with each other. There are only 2 major languages (English, Spanish and a Portuguese as a minor third language).

North and South America has such vast resources, land and sea it can dominate the world and other rising powers like China and India.

North-America is bigger than Russia. It's also two times bigger than Europe.

Reconciling with Russia appears to be a long-term thing.

A global government would be lead by the Americas.

>>138747657

The US still has much growth potential and space, resources. It's the same size as China, but has much more useful land to live and for agriculture.

Canada (US's 51st state) + America is more than double the size of China (PRC), America has much more resources.

>>138754951
ти иcтo

>>138743627

Ur not Europe now.

Go play with your anglosphere, poos and kikebros.

>>138755359
Way before that it was
You know it

>>138755468
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

we didn't make em, but the US gave them to us
same with Germany and Italy and some others

>>138755478
ти пo cпpeтeн cи oд мeнe
cи вeжбaл co гoдини

>>138746152
>Their supremacy is declining with the rise of China and other emerging economies. Picture related, the US share of the global economy has been declining since 2002.
Actually it has risen back to 25% in the last few years.

i wish US and EU would get along with russia. everyone else is irrelevant

>>138755473
When we make a European superstate superpower we'll invite American whites here.

The brown people of the Americas can unify with each other.

>>138755567
You can't actually freely use them though.
They're literally (((NATO))) nukes being held in your country.

>>138755468
It was believed that since the early 1960s, USAF nuclear weapons were stored at Volkel Air Base, to be used by the host nation's aircraft.[6] Formerly, storage took place in a weapon storage area on the north side of the base, and in a heavily defended quick reaction alert (QRA) area - but since 1991, eleven WS3 Weapon Storage and Security System vaults are operational in the floors of the aircraft shelters.[citation needed] The USAF 703rd Munitions Support Squadron (703rd MUNSS) is in charge of maintaining and securing the weapons.[7][8] As of 2008, 22 B61 nuclear bombs are believed to be in storage at Volkel, to be used by the Dutch 311 and 312 F-16 squadrons at the base.[9] The F-16s based at Volkel can at times be seen with BDU-38 dummy bombs, which are used to simulate the B61.[1

>>138755618
Netherlands is in NATO.

>>138743627
they have to resolve if the EU super state would have welfare and free national health care. all Eu nations do not have these but some do. its not truly 1 nation if you dont have some sort of standardized system of laws and benefits for the people

if no one gets either than those who had it will be mad. if every one gets those than some of those who had welfare will be cut because of prerequisites having to be tighter so the super state could afford to give people across the super state welfare

you can have a interim phase where no changes to those 2 happen or a cut off so those changes wont affect those already on them but it gets nasty fast without a standardized policy

underrated but the 2 biggest hurdles for the super state

>>138743627
>Do you support the idea of the EU becoming a United States of Europe - a proper superpower to challenge the likes of the USA, China, etc.?

what's the point challenging burgers or chinks? I don't give a single fuck they are billions or have 10 aircraft carriers, blasting asses around the world. Some nukes are enough to be a deterrent, and we have all the public infrastructure to guarantee one of the best standard of living of the world.
>b-but muh superpower, muh number #1 !!! xD

you maybe rule the world militarily and economically, but if your country is 40% nigger and becoming third world tier on a socially framework you just fool yourself

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>Implying the EU can ever challenge US, Russia or China
Wew lad

>>138755340
Half of the EU would freeze to death in the winter without Russian oil and natural gas, and your other choice is to suck off America and Saudi Arabia instead

You will never have energy independence, and will never be truly independent as a result

>>138755615
The North American continent now kills off Europeans.

You should go back here and help us make a united fascist European ethno continent.

>>138755196
France lost against the Vietcong before the Americans did, how do you think they got independence?

>>138755751
I know.
They have a deterrence programme, much like in other countries like Albania and Poland and other EU countries.

>>138752311
If only USA, EU and China would commit to a goal to colonize Mars and dedicating fully to it...

>>138755799
Mfw the Netherlands alone has almost as much gas as all of Russia

>>138755799
Europe doesn't have resource or monetary shortages. Our only flaws are demographic changes over the next 100 years. Economic, ethnic and resource based nationalism is outdated and useless.

>>138754938
>All 3 fought against Jews
>All 3 stopped by good goys

Well you really got me thinking, faggot.

>>138743627
It's not 2030 yet, where are we there in your map?

>>138756173
Pajeet, my son...

>>138755473

As an American i never wanna join the southern Shitskins............why the fuck would i wanna pay for the welfare of Latina skanks with 9 kids are you fucking insane???? This will never happen.

>>138756037
1. Not nearly as large as Russia
2. Can only feed half the Netherlands, let alone anywhere else

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>>138743627
>norge looks like a part of russia

>>138756173

Honestly Pajeet can you relax on telling us how India is going to be some superpower..........you people still wipe your ass with your hands on the streets............stop that Pajeet and we can talk.

>>138754076
Europeans have shared culture. We're all white and Christian. We share far more in culture between European countries than we do with Asian countries or African countries.

Also remind me what language you're speaking. It's effectively the lingua franca now.

>>138754100
True, true. I don't think the EU is quite at that stage yet though is it. The EU is still in its infancy as a power.

>>138756695
That's precisely why it's gonna be a superpower. Just how USA is a superpower because you eat that sorry excuse for cheese, drink watered down beer and live in trailers. All the little savings add up to aircraft carriers and shit.

>>138743627
Hitler supported Racial purity and the best possible life for his people. A "united" Europe currently offers none of that in fact the complete opposite.

>>138756888

You wanna get bombed bro? Even though I am Yugo diaspora i will still bomb you bro if you don't calm down with that tone.

>>138743627
The only superpower is the US, everybody else is a larper and could be turned to ash by the US overnight.

>>138743627
>EU super power
Top fucking kek. I can't understand why the EU wants an army so badly and poke Russia with it. Russia would crush the EU. Krauts never fucking learn do they? Guess krauts love ruski dick.

>>138756708
Do you want to start a political movement and meme this in existence? I could start a website with an .eu domain.

>>138754144
>there's a huge gap between the people of Europe and the Eurocrats in Brussels.
>Such as the undemocratic methods of the EU (backdoor meetings and agreements to bypass national referendums), the overpaid salaries of eurocrats, the unelected EU commission, the unelected and unaccountable "president of the EU", the "one economic policy" for different economies, lack of protection of EU borders, unemployment, increasing poverty, mass immigration.
I agree with all of this completely, like I said here: >>138746602

I am in full agreement with you. But still, a united Europe can offer benefits, if only the EU can bring itself to become more democratic.

Brexit will be interesting. It looks like our government has the balls to just walk away if needs be, and I hope they do if it comes to that, because I voted to leave - not because I hate the idea of a united Europe, but because of the reasons you stated. I only want to stay in it if it reforms itself, particularly on the issue of democracy. If we do get a relatively good deal out of Brexit (which I very much hope we will) then other EU countries might be tempted to leave, and then the EU (and the leaders of France and Germany) might give concessions just out of a pure survival instinct.

As for the "one economic policy" though, obviously that makes no sense for ALL of the EU countries, but it makes sense for the Eurozone countries, because you can't share a currency without sharing economic policy. Which is why Macron wants the Eurozone to have its own finance minister and budget.

>>138757083
>yugo daispora
>making fun of Indians
you have no shame

>>138756708
Ireland/Northern Ireland is a perfect example of a place where a bigger polity needs to just come in and force those potato niggers to get along. Best way is to assimilate both of them into a bigger polity.

Same problem in the Balkans.

Little ancient tribes which managed to escape the process of nation-building over the last few centuries need to be consolidated.

Honestly all of Europe is Balkanized. Britain is just a rebellious French province and France is just the other half of Germany. I would support a modern day Imperium Romanum.

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>>138743627
Trade treaties and an all-for-one defense systems are great.
Interfering with the societal fabric of sovereign nations is not.

>>138744252
>Inbred
This is a meme, Britain is not really inbred, less so than large parts of America
>About as super as your little islan
Babby never had a history lesson? You do realize the British Empire was the largest in human history?

>>138756708
>All christian
Think again
>All white
Not if leftists get what they want, and so far they've been getting it in large parts of western europe

In my opinion, Europe needs to become an alliance, and strictly a trade union among its member states, rather than a federation.
Internally, I am all for Western Bloc and Intermarium, provided they are allied and united against any threat, financial, military, or otherwise.
Such an outcome is possible only after the western countries learn the harsh lessons that shaped the post-commie countries into what they are now. Rapefugees welcome will only speed this up.

>>138757216
>Brexit will be interesting. It looks like our government has the balls to just walk away if needs be, and I hope they do if it comes to that, because I voted to leave - not because I hate the idea of a united Europe, but because of the reasons you stated. I only want to stay in it if it reforms itself, particularly on the issue of democracy. If we do get a relatively good deal out of Brexit (which I very much hope we will) then other EU countries might be tempted to leave, and then the EU (and the leaders of France and Germany) might give concessions just out of a pure survival instinct.
I think you need to wake up. The current EU wasn't made for you. It was created to serve as a retirement home for politicians who have become unelectable. Almost none of these institutions are necessary to have a customs union. If they were, you would see countries getting rid of institutions doing the same work. The EU is only called in when it's necessary to avoid a democratic choice. Therefore, it will never be reformed to be more democratic. There's no possible reason for it. If you want more democracy, you can just remove the EU institutions and continue just like before.

Things that need to change in order for a EU federation to work:

> Eliminate ridiculous policy's (TV licences, etc. Just lol)
> EU military
> Single language implementation throughout EU schools (within a century all of EU will speak one language)
> Cut back taxing the public, just tax them enough to cover necessary things. (this will give more people money to spend and will positively stimulate the economy)
> Allow countries the right to negotiate tax rates within their countries (this will allow companies to decide if they want to move to a certain area or not. I'm not sure if they do this now or not, but if I had to guess, I'd probably say no.)
> Freedom of speech (actually listen to the people of Europe, this will help stifle progress and hostilities within the EU because problems will be addressed and squared away)
> etc.

Basically, a more "conservative" EU federation would probably sit very well with the public. More of the same thing that's been happening for the past 10 years, well.....

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>>138743627
>EU
>superpower

No fanks.

If anything I want power further devolved to local communities, not centralised at a supranational, federalised level.

>>138754572
Caecilius est in horto.

>>138754769
Russia would never do that though, they hate us.

>>138757399
>Interfering with the societal fabric of sovereign nations is not.

Sovereign nations are useless.

Look at the migrant crisis:

>Half of europe in disagreement, one side wants to take migrants and the other doesn't
>No leadership, no one knows wtf is going on
>Migrants get passed from one country to another and the other won't send them back

If we were a superstate we could BTFO them at the entrance point.

Look at the next 100 years:

>4 billion African population
>600 million stagnant European population

Italy is overran, Germany is overran, Britain is overran, Greece is overran. This is happening now, not in 2050. The European race will end in the next 50-100 years unless we unify the continent and take radical measures. Federation is inevitable, the only variable is if leftists or conservatives will run it.

>>138744285
>2004
try that again today

>>138743627
No I don't. I hate super powers in general. The European soviet union is practically a federation anyway. Someone does something the EU disagrees with? Congrats your country now loses all financial aid and EU privileges, should've taken in those third worlders and offered your daughter up to them like we said :^)

>>138743627
The glorious Eurabian caliphate is rising, masallah. Butthurt white bois can't do shit about it

>>138757939
> Eliminate ridiculous policy's (TV licences, etc. Just lol)
That has nothing to do with EU.
> EU military
Would probably be breaking a bunch of WW2 peace treaties and regulations.
> Single language implementation throughout EU schools (within a century all of EU will speak one language)
I think it's mandatory to learn English in schools in most of the countries already.
> Cut back taxing the public, just tax them enough to cover necessary things. (this will give more people money to spend and will positively stimulate the economy)
In 10 years this would lead to complete stratification of rich and homeless because of the way corporate ownership works and the huge share of corporations in the economy.
> Allow countries the right to negotiate tax rates within their countries (this will allow companies to decide if they want to move to a certain area or not. I'm not sure if they do this now or not, but if I had to guess, I'd probably say no.)
They have that right already.
> Freedom of speech (actually listen to the people of Europe, this will help stifle progress and hostilities within the EU because problems will be addressed and squared away)
Can never happen in Europe. You would provoke a World War by trying to force it. I can guarantee you that it would lead to a way in the Balkans within months.

>>138757905
No there is a reason for many (though perhaps not all) of the EU institutions: trade. The reason the EU parliament exists is to pass laws about how standards will be universalised across the EU - standards relating to everything from bananas, to televisions, to whatever. So you can produce something in one country, and you know it will be legal to sell it in every other country, without any legal restrictions.

>>138758307
I like that Macedonia recognizes it's useless to be a tiny Balkanized state but Netherlands which is only barely bigger thinks it's a satisfactory size.

>>138758815
We already had that before entering the EU, and without a parliament or anything else. It's called CEFTA.

Nope. Countries are too different for it to work. A shitload of different languages and all that.

>>138743627

Poo isnt a superpower OP

>>138758998
Could gradually implement a nationwide language. English is already spoken by loads across Europe.

>>138757868
>In my opinion, Europe needs to become an alliance, and strictly a trade union among its member states, rather than a federation.
But you realise why the EU Parliament exists right? It means that standards on everything from bananas to televisions to cars get standardised, which means that your goods can be sold across the union, without any legal restrictions.

>>138759265
You can do that using national parliaments.
>>138757868
>In my opinion, Europe needs to become an alliance
RIP Austria, we barely knew ya.

>Brazil
>A superpower

Holy kek that was a good laugh

>>138743627
Hitler wanted a Germanic Union, sorry but that's not a full Federal Europe

>>138758924
More important than size is total population. We're barely 500 million in europe. I care about all europeans including americans. This place talks about preserving the white race but doesn't notice how the non-white population worldwide is skyrocketing while the white population is diminishing or stagnating at best.

We better cut aid to Africa because we're financing their population boom which eventually leads to our destruction. If Africa got zero aid from white nations, we could cut their population boom and there wouldn't be 4 billion of them by the end of the century. Africans are giving us hell and there are barely 900 million of them. Imagine a world with 4 billion Africans. Our children will be living in that world. A euro identity and federation based on racial laws will be beautiful.

>>138743627
Hell no! Brussels can go fuck itself!

>>138743627

No. Because the EU is a fucking embarrassment and a failure. Plus, Americans might be many things but we are not so damn stupid to allow our nation to be controlled by mentally retarded foreign overlords.

Frankly, I'll be surprised if the EU doesn't collapse or become the IUE (Islamic Union of Europe) by 2020.

>>138754127
without nukes they were never a credible threat to the US, in terms of making mainland landfall; but the US was able to mobilize and put boots on their soil.

We're already halfway there. But it doesn't really carry any support from the public right now so i don't think they'll be able to implement it for another decade or so.

Which is fine. These sort of things are always long term projects and should never be rushed simply in favor of doing it right the first time. Great example of this is the Euro and the admission of several EU member states from the start who's finances weren't in order. Italy for instances would've been 100% better off had they waited for another 5 years and use said years along with their own versatile currency to levy their financial position up to the initially drawn up Euro standards.

So in short. Yes i'm in favor of a more unified Europe. I even believe it's pretty much a necessity or will be a necessity in the future. But no, never against the will of European citizens. All issues have to adequately addressed, and if done so the public opinion will swing towards its favor naturally.

>>138758929
you use the eurocrat's one weakness. Documented history. Every single nation in the EU was better off before the formation of the EU and all these trade agreements. They can point to statistics or numbers, but personal happiness and quality of life plummeted post EU. The truth is, the "EU" could be either better served by a tithed, fully autonomous, peace keeping force with volunteers who give up their national citizenship for life and agree to serve no single nation under threat of overwhelming penalty, or the old system of just paying the US to stay in place and bitch about it.

I assure you, there are enough Europeans to round out such a volunteer force.

>>138743627
No
The eu must perish for Europe to prosper

>>138759414
>You can do that using national parliaments
No you definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely can't.

Have you never heard of protectionism?

>>138743627
>hey guiz what if the eu were an actual union

yeah fuck off back to plebbit son

>>138760684
I think you misquoted.
>personal happiness and quality of life plummeted post EU
No, it didn't. It plummeted after the recession.

>>138743627
Hitler was elite and leader so of course he supported uniting Europe under him so he could have absolute power.
I don't gain anything from European superstate.

>>138752638
If it was up to youth, we would have left EU too. Post-communist generations don't have this nigger gib me mentality, but we're still pretty spineless.

>>138760894
>Have you never heard of protectionism?
Yes, it's what Germany does in the EU, for example.
Unlike in normal free trade agreement, Germany can't be kicked out or sanctioned for its bad behaviour.

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Great, just what i needed, /pol/ is being raided by paid EU shills now.

All right, let's get this over with: every italian who is not insane hates every single french and german person, including offshots (i'm looking at you, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria and Holland), thinks all of Scandinavia is faggot central, thinks britbongs are bastards but they can barely tolerate them if they stay away (which they never do), despise the concept of a united europe who has not Rome as its capital (seriously, what was everyone thinking to use Bruxelles as the capital of the EU?) and is in the EU nightmere only because an handful of literal communists just signed the papers and fuck what the italian people would think.

All these years being the butt of everyone jokes, paying for everything, getting scolded for attempting to do the very same things Germany and France always do without anyone batting an eye, being invaded by shitskins because Mutti Merkel says so and having non leftist governments we voted being overthrown and replaced by slimy globalist and leftist ones without elections only worsened the pure, unadultered hate we have against the very idea of Europe.

Now you champagne sipping, caviar eating turbo leftists can fuck off.

>>138743627
You can take the UK out of that, thanks

>>138758634
Hello Pope Francis, left the Vatican to explore the rest of Italy I see?

>>138744285
>salty americuck mad because his status will get threatened

kek this

>>138755473

My nationalistic wet dream for years has been a United States of North America, which combines the nations of the United States, Canada, and Mexico. It will happen within my lifetime.

>>138747117
Blue Jacket ape is uruguay

>>138743627
EU survival is about as likely as vulcans visiting the Earth.

Might as well support the galactic federation

>>138761344
>Mexico
Why motherfucker?

>>138761262
>>138743627
Yeah, we're going to the arab league, you eurocucks!

>>138755828
the soviets lost to the afghanis but that didn't stop america from staying there for 30 years

>>138759454

>Not being able to interpret maps

Am*rican "education", everyone

>>138761261
You're all just petty little Gauls squabbling with each other. You need an Empire to come in and sort out your petty feuds.

How was Italy made? Different peoples with different languages were made to assimilate into one larger, better nation. Same thing has to happen to you Balkanized Euro fucks.

We are Europe. We are Christendom. We are one monolithic Romano-German civilization. Your tribal feuds with your cousins across the mountains are meaningless. We should unite like the Mongol tribes. Together we are strong.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich.

No, i disagree, i don't see the point.

>>138749373
It was not a superpower when your people were in charge daddy

>>138743627

SUPERPOOPER BY 2020

UMA DELICIA

>>138762599
Culturally, Italy was better when divised, no ?
Apart for the military power, what is the goal of unification ?

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>>138761098
How exactly? Please explain how Germany is currently protectionist. Their representation in the EU parliament is proportional to their population, just like every other country in the EU (pic related).

So how can they be protectionist? They have just as much representation as everybody else. By themselves, they only have 12.8% of the total MEPs.

>>138763900
Isn't France better today than it would be if it was divided again into Burgundian and Occitan and Brittany etc? Isn't America better off united than if California and Texas and New York were independent and hated each other?

Peace is the product of a homogeneous society. Rome established the Roman Peace by conquering and assimilating its neighbors, and society flourished.

>>138764061
I was talking about economic protectionism.

>>138763576
>The Brazilian per capita income in 1880 was similar to the one of the United States and in 1890 was of $770 (in 1990 US dollars). To give an idea of the economic potential of the country during the Empire, if “it had been able to keep the level of productivity achieved in 1780 and managed to increase exports at a pace equal to the one verified in the second half of 19th century, its per capita income in 1950 would be comparable to the average per capita income the Western European countries, and the country would not have fallen so much behind the others”. That is, at the beginning of the second half of the 20th century, the country would not only be richer, and the Brazilian people would have had a far higher standard of living than actually prevailed at that time. According to João de Scantimburgo, what "hindered the political, social and economical progress of Brazil was the First Republic [that began at the end of 1889], and its consequences stretched to the future".

You had the potential, we left you in a fine state

>>138763900
Stopping all of us from ally to you anytime we had a feud between ourselves, which was, without fail, used as the excuse to invade the entire italian peninsula. One simply can't keep count of how many times you tried this trick, Pierre. And even when no italian state called you in, it was an asshole foreign pope. Now that i think of it, we would have had far less trouble if we also kickbanned that fag in a tall hat and resumed pagan worship.

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>>138765011
>Catholicism
>paganism
>any difference

>>138764350
I know that - how is Germany economically protectionist? How CAN they be when they are members of the EU, which basically sets all the rules about intra-EU trade?

Do you have specific examples of protectionist action they've supposedly taken?

>>138765340
I have yet to see the Grand Asshole in Chief of the Church of Mars to call all of the militaries of the world in Italy because he was jealous of the power of Venice (War of the League of Cambrai) or being french, so he just told the french king to come over and lord over Italy (any french pope ever).

>>138764272
I don't know if the lives of the people of this zones would radically change if they were divided.

And currently, European Union hasn't a politic of assimilation with all the muslims who come here.
But i suppose you talk of another European Union, a dreamed European Union.

>>138757448
(((was)))

>>138766135
Do you not know about the auto cartel in Germany? The German insistence on privatization of foreign utility companies while their state pension funds buy shares of those same companies, etc.

>>138766253
All french popes have brought war in Italy ?
But beside catholicism brought some money in Italy no ? For make all this wonderful cathedrals, like the catedral of Milan.

>>138743627
>so why don't you?
Because I don't feel like it. I don't need any logical reason for why my nation should be preserved. I feel connected to my own people and my experience with foreign people and culture has only made me more conscious about it.

>>138762599
An Empire? No, thanks, i remember what happened last time. Rome was fine being a republic in the classical sense: an homogeneus, masculine culture in which only those who really loved it (read: only those willing to risk their lives for it, AKA the military) had full citizenship and political rights. You let random barbarians and shitskins run amok and even vote, and what you get? A fucking mess and eventually destruction. Even if all whites managed to unite and form a giant superpower, we would eventually become fragmented again after endless quarreling between ourselves. Think about it, ameribro: would anglo americans be fine with an italian born and raised in Florence running the show in Arizona?
Nah, i'll rather prefer whites being all allied between themselves against the rest of the world, and each of the white tribes having their land and their system of government designed for their specific culture. Less reasons to fight for dominance and sabotage ourselves that way.

>>138746152
>My theory is that the main problem is a lack of DEMOCRACY
disagreed
the eu should have never been given the chance to grow beyond organizing trade tariffs and standards
once they were given authority on human rights, migration, infrastructure spending, etc. it became a weird overlord

>>138767295
My man, all the money the Vatican ever earned was spent either for the pope and his court or for shitskins both christian and not. If you are talking about tourism, i don't think we would have lost much revenue... people all over the world would still have visited Rome simply because it is Rome.

>>138744285
>>138743627

you nigger aint gonna be part of the EU anyways what does it matter for you

>>138743627

Nooooopppppppppeeeeee. Too many power hungry cucks with napoleon syndrome.

>>138767076
>Do you not know about the auto cartel in Germany?
They are manufacturers who operate in the free market of Europe. A free market without tariffs between countries - because that's the whole point of the free market. And there's a common 10% tariff on cars coming into the EU from outside, but that is not decided by Germany, it's decided by every country in the EU.

>The German insistence on privatization of foreign utility companies while their state pension funds buy shares of those same companies, etc.
How can Germany insist on this? Is this a measure that was voted on by the EU parliament? If so then every other country in the EU had a say didn't they?

>>138743627
This will never work. Europe is too diverse for this. There comes a point where decision-making that affects you is too far away in a place you've never been, in a language you don't speak, by a culture that you don't associate with, that will inevitably cause people to feel alienated from those powers. This is recognized in all large countries where decision-making is split in a federal system.

Speaking from experience from one of the colonies, the fact of the matter is that shit you might find petty or irrelevant becomes hot button issues in such systems. Our obvious example is Quebec with language, culture and RELIGION having been, or continue to be, major issues. Europe is too fucking diverse for this. Not only that, there is a substantial lack of will. A major hurdle you need to overcome would be the Common Foreign and Security Policy which is nothing at all. European countries are not the least bit inclined to hand over control of their militaries to a central European authority, which is why this institution is largely irrelevant in terms of real power.

>>138743627
In theory, yes. But due to the sheer cancer that the EU currently is, I support leaving. We can always create a new union once this monstrosity collapses.

>>138770371
They are manufacturers who operate illegally with the protection of the German government.
How could they not insist on this? it's a measure any country can take, they can condition their trade involvement (of course, from a superior position) by making political demands. Merkel even personally stopped the expansion of fiber optics in Croatia because the Deutche Telekom (owned mostly by the German state and pension funds) is the majority holder of Croatian telecom's shares which is the owner of the current fiber optic installations and the new ones couldn't be owned by a single telecom.
I get that you're British so Germany can't pick on you, but imagine if Saudis started buying British utility companies while you can't touch theirs because all of the share holders are ran by state officials. If that's not protectionism, I don't know what is.

>>138771922
See? That's what i was talking about in my previous post. Both France and Germany do this exact thing, but god forbid your country ever tries the same. Free trade for you, mercantilism for them, all guaranteed by the EU very existance. And don't even get me started on immigration.

And those hypocrites still can't imagine why eastern and southern europeans hates their guts.

>>138743627
I dont think the EU necessarily has to be a superpower in that sense that it should try to determine world politics. Just a power that keeps its members well and alive inmidst the turmoils of global affairs. But I also think it should reach out to everyone who is interested in good trade and enviromental standards.

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In principle? Yes.

But I've always thought it needed to be split into three almost equally strong blocks.

EU-wide policies apply ONLY and ONLY in free trade of goods and some basic legislation (as it used to be) and not even freedom of movement accross the EU.

Wider EU policies and freedom of movement apply inside the blocs. Basically I'm perfectly fine with having fairly common policies as let's say, Hungary, but not as fucking Denmark. And I'm sure so is everybody.

Also dismantle the parliament, minimize the commission.

>>138743627
Sure, 1k euro pensions and 2k euro salaries for Eastern Europe pls first.

/thread

>>138776004
Nah, 100 euro pensions 200 euro salaries.

But dismantle the euro and move your dumping businesses out.

>>138743627
EU DELENDA EST
fuck them vampire commie authoritarian niggers
the future is libertarian right, not ooga booga jihad left

>>138775993
fine, but we get esti, luxembourg, half of poland and slovenia for that sweet, sweet meditarianan access. alternatively france.

>>138776503
It's not about who gets what you imperialistic nigger. I did forget to paint Luxembourg though, it's obviously with the northern/germanics.

And what you get is your shitty union doesnt collapse and we don't just abandon ship and stand aside as nogs and muds crawl over your fucked up country and rape and murder all of you.

Not about you getting fucking territory.

>>138743627
Your bureaucracy will be your downfall, too many languages and cultures.

>>138777483
Yes my 56% white friend

Or should I say si, mi amigo?

i can tell by this thread that you guys will all get along very well and be 1 big family

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>>138743627
The EU was a mistake it should never have been formed.

>>138778017
I hate it when people talk about how it WAS a mistake and about the history of it.

The EU was fucking necessary and it did a good job, up until about 25-30 years ago (or a bit less). It only went down the drain and this shit became mainstream outside the UK as of Barroso.

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>>138743627
Yes, but only if we get the United States of America and Canada Megapower.

>>138778309
>That flag

Wouldn't expect any other comment from you.

>>138751221
>>138752718
>>138756708

EU will collapse. Its a sad fact of history.

It was created as a neo-liberal counterpart to the USSR.

All multicultural constructs fail and collapse in Europe.

>Austro-Hungarian Empire
>USSR
>Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

Europe is big enough to be a huge player but not big enough to dominate the globe. Plus we are open to migration in a way the Americans are not

>>138778539
No thanks, keep your shithole cesspool to yourself.

>>138775993
Interesting I have thought about this kind of arangement myself.

Where would Ireland go?

>>138780281
This impossible. It would kill the EU.
The Western nations won't pay gibs for no access to markets. The East will experience massive unemployment as the immigration tap is turned off. Their ecnomies aren't ready for millions returning home. This Maygar is a retard.

East want all the money but none of the obligations while the West want liberal bullshit and don't want to give power to the East

>>138779981
Look at the insanity in your country leaf. Face it your getting annexed and your gonna love it.

>>138743627
I dont support russia us or eu existing.

>>138743627
>Brazil
>Superpower

kek

>>138778667
My country is eurosceptic as fuck fambalam, meanwhile you with the meme flag have no fucking right whatsoever to call out other flags.

When you're too ashamed of your own personal one and some fucking cuck faggot who has no pride, don't talk about others.

>>138780735
>The Western nations won't pay gibs for no access to markets

The market remains.

>The East will experience massive unemployment as the immigration tap is turned off

Immigration is impossible without freedom of movement? Interesting.

> Their ecnomies aren't ready for millions returning home

How so? You a local here? You know your shit?

Moreover, immigration is impossible without absolute freedom of movement? Interesting.

>Maygar

Right.

>East want all the money but none of the obligations while the West want liberal bullshit and don't want to give power to the East

Right, you're a retard.

>>138781154
Would you guys leave? why are Eastern europeans so sceptic. Everyone I talked too says how many roads got built and stuff. What are the Western European countries doing wrong to drive you away

>>138780858
Russia is an abomination union that needs to seperate, EU needs to stop existing, US union needs to dissolve.

>>138781298
Freedom of movement is a central pillar. The EU pretty much dies as a entity when it gets removed.

It was put in place cause in the USSR you would need a visa just to go the capital.

Your country is known for being full of sour faced miserable cunts.

Yeah I've visited and I saw all the new subways and roads and the tourists in Budapest.

Fuck off so and let some Russians start some shit with you.

Its okay to criticize and have different opinions but lots of Eastern europeans want the whole thing to collapse when it has done so much help you guys.

>>138781879
Good, EU needs to stop existing.

>>138781998
EU is the future. It will be America + EU versus the rest when China have a bigger economy than the US. It is the future to a free world rather than godless totalitarianism

>>138743627
No because creating imperial states violates the principle of nationalism.

>>138781349
The gibs we receive for roads are less or equal to the money that is being taken from foreign businesses. They dump on our markets, destroy any chance of domestic production and pay no taxes. It is only as of recently offset, since western retards keep raising taxes and we keep 10% so businesses tend to re-register here. On the other hand, our politicians are bought out and forced to do EU interests, which often go counter to ours. We will often fuck ourselves over completely just so some dude can become commissioner or such.

>>138781879
>Freedom of movement is a central pillar.

Does it now? Based on what? And why absolute freedom of movement, instead of freedom of movement accross 3 separate places and also significantly eased freedom of movement?

Based on what does this crash the union?

>Your country is known for being full of sour faced miserable cunts.

And you have a meme flag, so I'm assuming yours is known for being full of jihadists and niggers.

>Budapest.

You don't fucking know which flag mine is retard, if you're so fucking uneducated why are you trying to make a point?

>when it has done so much help you guys.

Has it now? And what about the EU completely and utterly crashing and destroying our whole agricultural sector? What about the EU murdering millions of domestic businesses, destroying entire sectors? What about the catastrophic demographic loss through absolute freedom of movement? What about the catastrophic loss of labour through mass immigration?

We know we are to blame, ourselves. We're not some faggot germans with a list of 9-10 things to blame in case something is wrong with our countries. We know we let our politicians do this to us and we were stupid enough to keep at it.

Also we don't want it to outright collapse, we want it to reform heavily or be replaced. We mostly like the EU, because we know what it's like to be fucked over by 5 imperial interests at the same time, so choosing just 1 is better.

>>138782303
>godless totalitarianism
uhhh you know they're working towards censoring all speech over there right?

The only kind of EU I would be for is the kind that Mosley suggested. Not this genocidal liberal hellhole.

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If the UK doesn't see its future with Europe then it should try to create something with its family in CANZUK

>>138771922
>They are manufacturers who operate illegally with the protection of the German government.
Again can you refer to specifics? I don't know what you're referring to. Are you referring to the emissions scandal? They're being sued into oblivion for that so I'm pretty sure they're playing the price. And also I don't know how the German government provided "protection". But perhaps you're referring to something else.

>Merkel even personally stopped the expansion of fiber optics in Croatia because the Deutche Telekom (owned mostly by the German state and pension funds) is the majority holder of Croatian telecom's shares which is the owner of the current fiber optic installations and the new ones couldn't be owned by a single telecom.
How did she do that? Through the EU? If not then that's a separate issue to the merits of the EU.

My original contention was that the purpose of the EU parliament is to pass regulations that apply to every country, which means we can all trade our goods with each other. Which I still stand by. Although I have just thought, I guess you could say that a mere free trade agreement between the EU countries could accomplish the same thing. Perhaps it could.

But anyway. My point about protectionism was that without common regulations agreed by countries (e.g. with the EU, or perhaps with an FTA), then countries will have no incentive but to keep whatever regulations benefit their domestic industries.

>>138782436
My bad. I know Budapest isn't in Bulgaria. Mistook it for Hungarian flag.

They are valid points. But what do you want to do? Maybe it was inevitable because of the USSR that noncompetitive industries would get wiped out?

Farming subsidies are very controversial but they do help small farmers from what I've seen.

I've pointed out why freedom of movement matters. It was to give freedom to all members of society not just rich surgeons and bankers.

I'm from Ireland. We have catastrophic demographic loss anyways due to immigration. It was only when the country put in reforms and became wealthier that people came back.

At least the freedom of movement gave a chance for your friends and family to live abroad and make some money and maybe go back and build a nice house or have a good life.

Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of Eastern Europe,

It has a lot of the values that made European nations great and strong in the world. We need you guys to stop the liberal madness overtaking the continent

>>138782572
Yeah its thanks to an American-British invention that will make it mostly obsolete. The Greate firewall works because the Chinese are the most self censoring cuck slaves to ever exist. They rat each other out to the government and fully support repressive shit going on.

>>138743627
Not gonna happen.
Simple as that.
First big eco gone.Small will follow up if gibs are reduced. Then it will fall apart.

And if you think the EU countrys could form one public(like watching same tv shows, voting for the same parties .....) you are dreaming.

>>138783681
Eurovision, European soccer cup, champions league... I mean I wouldn't like to federalize either but we do have a common kind of culture

Lmao the eu cant even handle the refugee crisis properly.superpower? hahahah NO

>>138783983
>Eurovision, European soccer cup, champions league

Each of these are produced for each country differently. So no you don t watch the same show.

> but we do have a common kind of culture

Maybe some countrys share some kind of culture. Like Germany and Austria. Or France and Belgium. But we don t have sth we all have in common .
Esp. if you comprare the south and the north.
Or the west and east.

What i can tell you is that we are not homogene enough to form a country. If we try to force it, it will end in war.

>>138775993
>Basically I'm perfectly fine with having fairly common policies as let's say, Hungary, but not as fucking Denmark. And I'm sure so is everybody.
I'm interested why you say this? Especially since many Bulgarians (perhaps not yourself, but I personally have known some) love being able to migrate to Western Europe for jobs. And it was my general impression that that's the main reason most Eastern Europeans (especially Poland as well) are fans of the EU. Because it enables them to move to richer countries. That's why Polish approval ratings of the EU are much higher than they are in the Western European countries.

>>138783340
>Maybe it was inevitable because of the USSR that noncompetitive industries would get wiped out?

Noncompetitive? Our wine production was brilliant, but you can't compete with France that can literally afford to sell wine at -1 euro and will make 2 euros profit because of French subsidies that outweigh production costs outright.

>Farming subsidies are very controversial but they do help small farmers from what I've seen.

LEL fucking no educate yourself, about 90% of our subsidies go for grain production that is owned by millionaires who only use the land to get gibs. They take them and get apartments in Paris. We call them "grain apartments". Same as SAPARD, pre-accession, when there was suddenly an increase of Ferraris in Bulgaria - about 30 new ones. SAPARD ferraris, as they are now known.

>It was to give freedom to all members of society not just rich surgeons and bankers.

And there's nothing wrong with making it intelligent instead of absolute. Absolute freedom of movement is fucking stupid - we lose precious labour that we need, while you lose too many jobs to us. Meanwhile the solution is right there - UK style work visas. When they were in place, they were piss easy for us to get, but still required that you were qualified and wanted to go work there. They fixed the problem magnificently. Then when they were taken out, mass gyppos and people we need also came to the UK. They lost, we lost.

>It was only when the country put in reforms and became wealthier that people came back.


Doesn't mean other methods shouldn't also be pursued. Again, we understand its our fault.

>At least the freedom of movement gave a chance for your friends and family to live abroad and make some money and maybe go back and build a nice house or have a good life.

Our biggest communities are in the US and Canada, we don't have freedom of movement there. There were 1 million Bulgarians working in the EU before freedom of movement.

>>138784472
Yeah multiculutral entities don't have a good lifespan in Europe. It would be a pity if the whole thing collapsed. We should stop the migration across the Med and give more thought to what the East wants

>>138778865
>All multicultural constructs fail and collapse in Europe.
>Austro-Hungarian Empire
>USSR
>Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
But the EU is something that countries have willingly joined. It's not one country trying to impose its culture on everybody else, like the Austro-Hungarian Empire and USSR were.

>Europe is big enough to be a huge player but not big enough to dominate the globe.
Well that's what I think, yes. I'm not saying Europe will dominate the globe. But it can be a big player.

I think we can all agree that the trade liberalisation of the EU has been a great thing. I don't think anybody wants to get rid of that. As for the political union, I am in no hurry to destroy the nation states of Europe, I definitely don't want that. But I think a strong EU can be a strong superpower. I just want it to be more democratically accountable than it currently is.

>>138784573
These are all good points. I didn't know about the rich farmer thing. There is controversy over here as well about big pig farmers and the like getting huge subsidies from EU grants. What would you like to see to help countries in Eastern Europe?

Don't you have much lower wage costs? Would be easier to compete in the meantime.

>>138785112
>What would you like to see to help countries in Eastern Europe?

I worked in the EU, I'm disillusioned. It's a long post, too long for this already dead thread anyway.

>Don't you have much lower wage costs? Would be easier to compete in the meantime.

Yeh, we were fucked in all competition until about a year ago or something, we elected a very shit but stable government and our corrupt mafia boss of a prime minister now looks eternal. So the 10% flat tax across everything we have and lower wages are here to stay, foreign businesses started outsourcing en masse. It's the only time we've ever managed to get ahead and it's mostly thanks to our own actions, as you said.

>>138785425
Thanks for your posts I appreciate them. Always good to get a second look at things. For what its worth Bulgaria is becoming more popular as a toruist destination. Lots of people talk about going skiing their and visiting Sofia

>>138785885
Yeh, if only austrian-backed NGOs weren't blocking the building of new lifts for our huge resort with not enough ski tracks.

>>138743627
>Germanys 4th reich
lmao

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>>138780854
Anglo union when?