Nativer americans technologically superior to europeans

>>138493621
They were a literal stone age civilization going up against one with firearms

>>138494034
Watch the video. He says that our bows had better range and precision than your guns. You basically suck at guns and at making bows because our bows were the fucking shit. They were so good we didn't even need guns.

>>138493621
What technology did they have?

>>138494290
Sewers, incorporated in the city design.

>>138494137
>our bows were the fucking shit.

this is actually the only part of that which is true
but only in comparison to other bows.
not fucking firearms.

musket and fucking CANNONS > bows and ... bows.

>>138494475
Isn't there also proof that natives in the Andes also had electricity through primitive batteries and they would use that to late gold onto ornaments and decorative dress?

>>138493621
WEWUZ TECHNOLOGCALLY ADVANCED N SHEEIT

>>138494554
>not fucking firearms.
Wtf. He actually quoted and cuckropean saying that our bows were better than their guns.

GIT FUCKING GUD.

>>138494475
So did the Romans, what else?

>>138493621
if this is true, how did we btfo them?

>>138493621
there are only two types of people on this planet
those who find a way
and those who find an excuse

euros clearly found a way to colonize you, you clearly found an excuse

>>138495083
Plagues. Watch the video. It is all settled science.

>And Europeans only won the wars because of the diseases they brought.
But this is true

Rewriting history again

>>138494137
He quoted some guy about bows. South Americans didn't have very special bows, as far as I know not even crossbows.

There's a reason guns were preferred.

>>138494976
Were Romans not the height of civilization for thousands of years in Europe and all of the Mediterranean?

If you want to stack up next to any civilization in terms of success would it not be the Romans?

Andean natives were fascistic in practice actually. I think the people here would probably appreciate the art they produced. Even if you don't approve of human sacrifice, it would be the sort of spectacle i could imagine plenty of people here enjoying..

File: IMG_0237.gif (2MB, 268x200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 268x200px

>>138495179
(((Settled science)))

>Super technologically advanced

>Shit tier ships

>Shit tier weapons

If they were truly technologically advanced they would not have lost to Europeans

>White people are the dumbest and weakest creatures who walk among literal gods
>Somehow they BTFO'd everyone of them
Really mumbos my jumbos.

>>138495486
I am not using the term ironically. Watch the video, he is a historian quoting scientific papers.

Well, I wouldn't expect whitey to understand something as advanced as science but still, you can check his sources. He is white too.

>>138495209
Their ability to deceive, divide and conquer, and betray were probably just as if not more important than the plagues.

But they wouldn't have succeeded without one or the other, that much is certain.

>>138493621
>small tribes of people living in caves and tents because having architecture like the real NA powers was for the weak
>advanced medical technology: chanting "hey ya ya ya hey ya ya ya hung wang wang wang" and shaking sticks filled with sand until they got better
>no schools. few tribes with written language, because knowledge is for cucks.
>eat people to take their power.
>all these natural resources? nah. dunno how to use them.
so advanced.

>>138495593
>If they were truly technologically advanced they would not have lost to Europeans

D I S E A S E
I
S
E
A
S
E

>>138495209
No it's not. It's a fucking history meme made to make you feel bad.

>>138495412
Anon, this thread is about native americans allegedly being "far more technologically advanced than Europeans". So far we have bows that are slightly better than muskets and something that Europeans had as well, so what else is there?

>>138495674
If they were technologically advanced enough they would have cured the disease. Checkmate.

>>138495666
>>small tribes of people living in caves and tents because having architecture like the real NA powers was for the weak

Hi Satan. Just as they say, the devil is white. But anyways, see that you are talking about the smaller tribes. There were actually huge empires like the Aztecs who had better technology than europeans.

Obviously the small wandering tribes were shit tier, but Europe also had shit tier societies.

>>138495674
MEDICINE
E
D
I
C
I
N
E

>>138495785
Medicine did not even fucking exist. Not even Europeans had that technology so checkmate back at ya.

>>138494137
>>138493621
Bitch, amerindians didn't even had reflexive bows. You were no mongols.

>>138495864
15TH CENTURY
5
T
H

C
E
N
T
U
R
Y

>>138495900
You aren't mongols either. He simply said we had better tech than europeans, no mention of asians.

>>138494137
>Watch the video
Fuck no. I ain't giving that shit views.

>>138495738
>wiped out 90% of Native Americans
REEEEEE NO SUPERIOR EUROPEAN WARRIOR REEEEEEEEE

>>138496039
I know you faggots have some kind of youtube mod that allows you to watch it by proxy. I know /pol/. Just watch it. It is fucking science. The fucking truth.

>>138495938
Yes, and? Europeans had medicine back then, and way before going back to the ancient greeks and as you said: native americans were "far more advanced", so what's the issue?

>>138494885
>saying that our bows were better than their guns
Then why did the natives trade stuff for european guns and start using them over bows?

>>138496119
Are you retarded? We also had medicine. But our medicine nor your medicine was good enough to cure fucking plagues. Neither of us even knew what caused such diseases back then. It was all about the plants we could find in our respective continents and fucking luck to see if some bullshit plant helps with a disease.

>>138496017
Europeans had better tech than asians at that point. You know why muskets had shit range and accuracy? They could. People used them instead of bows and crossbows (lol you didn't even had those) becouse they could punch through armor. That your dumb asses didn't even had.

>>138494137
Gatling would like a word with you, as would every modern military. Marksmanship is less important now, since its basically supression and better manubering that gets the job done. Thsts why the US switched to .556 among other reasons.

>>138496247
Well, you are from the fucking US. You know damn right why the wanted guns.

Obviously, to shoot up their schools. I mean, school shooting with bows is so impractical. You know that better than anyone, whitey.

>>138495749
True. I disagree with the idea that natives were "far more technologically advanced than Europeans".

It's a false dichotomy. The resources available in those disparate parts of the world means they evolved so differently they could hardly be expected to directly compete in parallel ways.

Example: natives had rubber, Europeans only had leather. Europeans were able to develop livestock whereas natives were limited to ducks, dogs, and llamas.

https://books.google.com/books?id=r9TmAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=andes+natives+electricity+gold+plating&source=bl&ots=QAM7BzLFc8&sig=IJYDg2yXmO8_421tVtoJJU9PEpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihj5ey_ejVAhWFZCYKHaH0CbgQ6AEIKDAA

There are other sources aside from this, but this was the most fascinating thing i have come across that might give them a leg up.

>>138496437
Well, remember that europeans had one thing that savages didn't: JIZAS.
He made them win with his blood sorcery.

>>138496437
You definitely are an idiot.
During colonial times natives traded for european guns to use over their shitty bows.

>>138495812
>aztecs
>no metalurgy
>no real medicine
>not seafaring
>no animal husbandry worth mentioning
your example of advanced technology kind of sucks, desu

>>138495412
The Romans also had the wheel.

>>138496631
>We had a fake religion better than your fake religion

Ooh man, fucking scary man shit you got me.
Let me tell you one more thing you had that we didn't.

>JEWS

Check fucking mate. Now that the argument is settled I am free to receive reparations.

>>138493621
You're that fag from /his/ aren't you...

>>138496478

Did Europeans bring all the livestock here when it was colonized?

>>138496734
They wanted to keep it fair.

>>138496894
Nope, I do not touch cancer.

>>138493621
This video just makes them seem even more incompetent

>>138495209
Europeans only massively displaced natives because of diseases. We would have won the wars anyway.

>>138495486
t.creationist

>>138496843
Yes. They also had animals to pull the carts to which those wheels were attached. Natives didn't have beasts of burden other than slaves.

Andean roads were probably superior to Roman's in some ways if you consider that a message could travel 3000km in a week by runners.

look at the cover of that book and tell me you're not laughing your fucking ass off. that book is fucking trash.

File: 1460470061059.jpg (44KB, 277x330px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 277x330px

>tfw some native tribes were prob pretty cool
>tfw this obvious bait by an obvious shitposter
I wish upon you the the niggest of fates, you absolute waste of air, trying to bring down an interesting topic and comparison between cultures, with your fake WE WUZ bait.

>>138493621
Honestly who cares... Why are people assuming NA and Spics are still mad about the European conquest? I'm pretty sure they all have agreed that if wasn't for Europeans this continent wouldn't have been the same, it's also the reason why so many Native Americans kill themselves, and it's mainly because they know their way of life and culture is incompatible and inadequate with european culture

>>138496980
A lot of them. If you read the chronicles the historians actually wrote about how devastating it was to natives in the Caribbean and everywhere else when pigs and goats came.

The people there never had a reason to corral or fence their crops. The European animals would just dig up the potatoes tubers and so on actually causing massive starvation for natives. The Europeans would literally just come and steal anything remaining that the animals didn't eat.

>>138493621
(pure) Native Americans are closer to Europeans genetically than they are to modern Asians.

This is because we share Northeurasian hunter gatherer ancestry, most Europeans have some Hun ancestry (Haplogroup Q), and proto-indo europeans mixed with the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

>>138497332
>WE WUZ

Hey, I ain't claiming that we got fancy shit like quantum teleportation or whatever the blacks claim. I am not delusional. I am merely stating the facts. The guy from the video is WHITE. He is one of you. So he obviously has no reasonable motive to lie about how we were so great. We simply were great.

>>138493621
>They had silent sandals and faster canoes.
We literally didn't have the need for hunting back then, since we were way further than this as we had working goverment systems for producting food for its citizens and instead of some shitty smallboats we had gigantic warships with cannons.
What point does this retard make?

>>138496247
Not to mention the fact that tribes like the Sioux, Nez Perce, and Apache were able to BTFO of other tribes by adopting horses and guns. Most of the "genocide" of the natives you hear about was actually nomadic tribes like Sioux wiping out their old rivals. Libshits don't realize that the Sioux weren't even native to the Dakotas, they launched a campaign of genocide against the actual plains natives like the Pawnee and Crow, which is why those tribes allied with whites. The nomadic tribes we think of as "horse tribes" were the first to trade extensively with whites and this gave them a huge advantage in their tribal conflicts.

>>138495317
gunpowder-powered artillery was better than the alternative from the get-go, but infantry weapons sucked big time for centuries.
>There's a reason guns were preferred.
yes. they require vastly shorter training than bows to be useful. even in Europe guns only caught up with bows around 1750 or so in terms of precision and range. the reason armies preferred guns for three centuries by then was that you could field a peasant or burgher army with them who did not need two hours archery training daily, as it was the law for the English from the 13th century until around 1960.

>>138497531
If you had such great bows why didn't honkeys stole them?

File: Kusaka - World's Greatest Troll.jpg (44KB, 1233x697px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 1233x697px

>>138497531
>I am merely stating the facts

>>138497546
>What point does this retard make?
That whites only won because they got lucky.

>>138496631
Laudētur Iēsus Christus

>>138497670
The tiny white brain can not even begin to comprehend the complex procedure of using one of our advanced super bows.

>>138497846
>complex procedure of using one of our advanced super bows
>complex
>pull and release
>complex

>>138497846
Bitch, they weren't even reflexive bows.

>>138498003
You've never used a native american bow so what would your cracker ass even know.

>>138498114
i agree with some of what you've said but now you're straight shitposting sir.

File: mongolian_bow.9761_1.jpg (271KB, 2533x1929px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 2533x1929px

Mongolian bow

File: indian-bow.jpg (42KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 800x600px

>>138498395
Indian bow
HONKYS AN CHINKS BTFO

>>138498458
Damn that's a fine ass bow.

File: Chan-Chan-index-2014.jpg (75KB, 964x306px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 964x306px

>>138497435
>their way of life and culture is incompatible and inadequate.

For what exactly?

>>138497703
If they were such kangs with their fast canoes and silent boots, how could they not fight a little flu? After all they are 2000 years ahead of us...
It looks like all that hard european work to make a gun which is more advanced than any other before was pointless infront of the superior indian wood and string bow? How couldn't europeans figure that obvious thing out? I guess we are just stupid.

>>138498114
There's no bow in existence or history that does not boil down to pull and release. That's the function of the bow.

>>138494137
That's because most medieval/early modern weaponry was designed with plate armor and castles in mind. Longbows and muskets were great at piercing armor, and cannons were great at destroying ships and fortifications.
On the other hand, native Americans favored lightly-armored blitzkrieg war. They didn't need power, they needed precision.
It was two fundamentally different war-strategies.

>>138496373
gatling didn't happen until the US civil war

at the time of Cortez bows still had many advantages over guns. the reason guns were preferred was because it was faster to train and defeats Armour

>>138498564
>fast canoes and silent boots can fight plagues
Shit man fantastic. Please show me your scientific paper that proves this.

>>138498564
Could you imagine trying to upkeep a proto-musket from the year 1492?

Are you stupid or dense? Which is easier to maintain and use consistently: a bow or a 1492 ball projectile blow up in your face boom-stick?

You realize for decades after coming here Euro's died en-masse because they weren't acclimated to here right?

They persevered but really? Look at how they were dressed for the weather in the tropics.

>>138494475
I thought it was a "designated shitting streets" joke

>>138498827
I can show you a scientific paper for your retardation. We get it you guys were kangs. You go in the list with all the other regular niggers claiming the same things.

>>138494554
Bows are faster to fire, require less infrastructure to support (gunpowder, bullets, etc), and are more versatile than early muskets.
The big advantage muskets had was that anyone could pick one up and use one, whereas a yeoman required a lifetime of expensive training.
The only reason the native americans could use their bows so well (relative to europeans) is because bows were such a big part of life.

File: plataforma-funeraria-600x385.jpg (62KB, 600x385px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 600x385px

>>138498564
Actually by the time the plague reached the Inca empire, there was already a cure, that didn't stoped the plague for expanding but by the time they reached Chile there was counter meassures for it.

The thing you are ignoring it's social development, textiles and astronomy, that are far more advanced than most european cultures, and that before having contact with the new world, with time things would have been a lot different, but it's no longer the 15th century amerindians who have to prove that.

>>138498789
The main reason guns were preferred so early on, especially by sailors, is the fact that making arrows is a huge pain in the ass. Logistics was the biggest factor

>>138499055
All the shitskins in the south america died anyway, deal with it. Superiority is clearly shown, even in a completely different environment.

>>138499331
Too bad with their advanced astronomy, they were found first by us. And it us who found them landed on their land and colonized them, not the other way around,

>>138498662
Guerrilla warfare was how Enriquillo (Guarocuya) won independence in Hispanola from the Spanish.

He took thousands of warriors and natives to the mountains and literally dropped boulders on the heads of enemy soldiers in a war that lasted over 15 years and led to the first autonomous Indian region in the new world after initial conquest.

This is a great story actually because Guarocuya was essentially the last trace of nobility left from the natives after his fore bearers were tricked by the Spanish into attending a supposed peace and trade meeting where they burned hundreds of leaders gathered together in a central hut, murdering everyone who tried to flee except capturing his mother and burning her at the stake. The literal Queen of the island murdered after showing good faith.

He was then raised by De Las Casas who loved him and the natives so much he actually made the suggestion to bring blacks so as to save the Indian race from perpetual slavery and ultimate destruction.

He really fucked up there and he realized it later also. Once De Las Casas visited that stronghold in the mountain and was actually stripped by warriors and then brought to Guarocuya who then shamed those men because he considered him as his own father since he was the one who saved him, taught him to read, etc.

>>138499420
You're wrong and literally stupid.

>>138499331
The Inca were a degenerated culture that was on the decline even before Europe came on the scene. They were a barbarian tribe that conquered the genuniely civilized Peruvians just a few decades before the Spaniards showed up. The Inca allowed all the arts and infrastructure not directly related to war to vanish. When the Spaniards asked how they accomplished so much in the fields of masonry, gold-smithing and construction, their response was "it wasn't us".

>>138493621

Hang on, why would natives need such precise weapons? I thought they all lived peacefully before the white man showed up

>>138499331
>there was already a cure
such as? plague responds to an overkill of antibiotics. what was the cure "at the time it reached the Inca empire"?

>>138500423
They only used them to hunt bisons after said bisons signed a contract stating that they want to die. They used it as a euthanasia method.

>>138500423
>why would natives need such precise weapons?
The white man was coming with the Death Star and the natives needed to fire an arrow into a tiny exhaust port to win.
They failed.

>>138493621

If white people never arrived, would native Americans have landed on the moon?

>>138495674

Why didn't they build ships and bring their new world diseases to europe and wipe out the natives?

>>138500448
The best and really only thing they could do as to hydrate as much as possible and limit exertion.

How to do that when you need to travel a mile to fetch water probably meant many of them couldn't afford to rest adequately for weeks on end when 90% of their neighbors were suffering the same fate?

Probably would have just been impossible in most cases.

File: 1481825276320.png (98KB, 600x500px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 600x500px

>>138500131

>>138500712
cool meme my nazi friend

>>138500666
trips of satan make this so.

but really you are aware syphilis came from mexico to Europe and devastated hundreds of thousands immediately and millions shortly thereafter right?

>>138500639
They already were, and they still are, watching us, aiming their precise bows at the earth to kill us all when the time comes.

>>138499368
dude, still there were scores of soldiers with crossbow with Cortes, not only muskets. And rodelieros as well - basically dudes with a round shields and shorts swords clad in curass and period steel helmets, The gunpowder was a huge aid for the spaniards, but the main blows was delivered by good old steel swords, pikes and light lances of cavalry. And of course wood-and-stone weapons of their local tribal allies. The matter of technological merit in those days (arguably in modern times as well) is the ability to wage war with better equipment and better skill. Steel cuirasses and helmets were way more effective than rawhide, wood and bone garments of the Aztec warriors. And steel shortsword is far better then a fucking maquahuitl, especially when a guy wielding the said sword is also wearing iron protection on hips, torso and head. Actually, those poore injuns didn't stand a chance. I by a glimps of luck they would somehow survived Cortes and his gang of misfits, they would inevitably fall under the push of some another conquistadors. It's just that Cortes was good both at jewing stoopid savages and waging war against them. Was a great man this Hernan Cortes.

File: 1485555842463.jpg (57KB, 446x700px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 446x700px

>>138500820
Ty

>>138500978
>syphilis came from mexico to Europe
Debatable. There is some proof that syphilis might existed in Europe already.

>>138501063
Giant bow on the dark side of the moon that fires nuclear planet-to-planet missiles?

>>138494759
Nah, that was the Baghdad battery.

>>138501225
>effective than rawhide, wood and bone garments of the Aztec warriors. And steel shortsword is far better then a fucking maquahuitl, especially when a guy wielding the said sword is also wearing iron protection on hips, torso and head.

This. The metal armor was a massive advantage, even moreso against an enemy without firearms.

>>138501318
I'm aware of that one and the link i provided earlier is a little fruity since it claims potential phonecian influence, but there is proof of Moche indians in Chile using this technique.

I haven't seen it debunked and I've seen some of the work in museums and such so i wouldn't doubt their ability to do so. Besides if a bunch of dunecoons can do it I guess its really not that far of a stretch to imagine mountain desert coons(Moche) from the same, right?

File: kambo_veneno_rana_amazonica_medicina_salud_624x460_medicinakambo.jpg (94KB, 624x460px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 624x460px

>>138500448
Kambo.

Rainforest frog venom.

>>138501281
No, regular bow. It is way superior than all those impractical white man tech. You ask me how did they get to the moon than? With the canoes of course! They were very fast. Our ships couldn't even make one MILLION GAZILLION QUADRILLION GORRILION kilometers, to elevate from the water, but theirs were better.

>>138501650
https://books.google.com/books?id=QIFTVWJH3doC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=andes+natives+electricity+gold+plating&source=bl&ots=YeXBCc2W-_&sig=Y9KyZ71rnV-XnMhsPDAIglqMpwA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihj5ey_ejVAhWFZCYKHaH0CbgQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=andes%20natives%20electricity%20gold%20plating&f=true

If you can debunk it I would love to see that.

>>138501915
Canoes so fast that they take off?
Seems legit to me.

>>138493621
did native americans even have a code of law?

I feel like I've seen this exact same thread last week. Even with the exact same replies.

>>138502547
Weird because I wasn't here.

>>138502446
The U.S constitution mirrors the iroqouis confederacy which was in existence hundreds of years before the pilgrims showed up.

The founders actually appreciated their system of government and chose to incorporate elements were still live by to this day and of course that also spread to Europe by the same token of U.S.A making Europe in its own image.

>>138501675
>Rainforest frog venom.
"administer frog venom until the complaints cease"?

>>138502547
Es un glitcho en el matrix chingado.

>>138502547
I felt i was going completely insane when the election was going down but really it was the russians and their fucking bots putting me in a room full of mirrors. This sort of thread is happening a lot now though because of the controversies with the statues and columbus statues now.

Also fuck Columbus.

>>138493621
FACT: native americans were even more technologically advanced than europeans

FACT: they elected libshits who took away all of their guns

FACT: they got rekt

>>138494137
HAHAHHA you say that to Genghis Khan and the archer masters of this world, the mongols you fucking faggot!

>>138503096
FACT: native americans are the most powerful race in the world

>>138502826
Thanks, but was it actually a code of law or just an understanding between different tribes, that got translated by europeans as a "confederacy". My question is they understood the concept itself.

Same question about aztecs, did they have any written laws?

>>138502946
It works like antibiotics do, they just administer a low enough dosis.

>>138502826
Inca codex it's known ad around, they believed in a system called ayllu or community and it worked like a social democracy, with the exception of the specific roles given to the Inca, outside the empire most tribes lived in a state of intertribe peace maintained by inner tribe rules.

Mapuches for example recognized every head of a family as a feudal lord and there was no mapuche king, but a council that operated in times of war, there was no need for leadership outside war.

>>138493621
>>138496242
All major schools of philosophy originate from the minds and mouths of either White or Asian men. Even feminism drips from the stem of a pen in the hand of a man.
>Jeremy Bentham

>>138502826
Lol, that's fantastic bait truth be told.

>"natives" only advance up to wood and stone tech

>vikings already into metallurgy and advanced inter-continental sailing

>discover americas 700 years before columbus and spain

sure thing OP!

>>138503246
If you want anyone to believe you then it needs to be in ALL CAPS, not just some, my dear.

>>138503321
Aztecs and Mayans were the only ones to codify anything whatsoever into a readable language. They definitely had organized systems of law in place. They were well past grunts and pointing at things to make themselves known.

The Iroquois didn't write things down, but they had understood systems within tribes and with their neighbors. Over a dozen tribes within the confederacy enjoyed peace and war with one another and common enemies for centuries.

>>138503689
Go ahead and add substance if you care to. Otherwise the only bait i see if yours. I learned this shit in elementary school as some random Hispanic kid in New York. Where are you from exactly?

>>138503585
>Mapuches for example recognized every head of a family as a feudal lord and there was no mapuche king, but a council that operated in times of war, there was no need for leadership outside war.

This isn't an inaccurate picture of what life was like for millions of natives.

>>138503585
>It works like antibiotics do, they just administer a low enough dosis.
wiki says it's used in "cleansing rituals", no other medical uses are listed. do "cleansing rituals" include induced vomiting like they did in ancient Middle East? because that doesn't cure the plague.

>>138504037
They definitely knew how to work metal in some places and tribes. Perhaps you ought to read the thread before shitposting.

>>138494137
really nigger? longbows and crossbows wouldnt be able to out perform the stick and string the shitskins thought of?

>>138503585
>Inca codex
Prove it.

They used quipu and that's about it as far as i know. Incans had no written language whatsoever.

>>138504040
>They definitely had organized systems of law in place.

Well, can you substantiate this more? I'm just curious what sort of legal code could justify for example public sacrifice.

>The Iroquois didn't write things down, but they had understood systems within tribes and with their neighbors. Over a dozen tribes within the confederacy enjoyed peace and war with one another and common enemies for centuries.

So it seems I was more or less right? They did not have a perfect understanding of different forms of government, and europeans classified them as a "confederacy"?

>>138496437
>>138496110
>>138496017

For god shake dude, pizarros wars was even before they enter in contact of the natives, and he slaughter 100 natives just killing 2 men, if pizarro was a succed is becouse he was able to make tons of political alliances, and was smart enough to not fight all natives as one, also bringing them new items religion etc luring them into its culture.

Saying you werent as retard as africa is okay, but that you were more advanced than the poeple that colonized you is bullshit


Also if the diseases were so important why when europeans arrived to japan or new guinea australia etc, they didnt died becouse this?

>>138504633
>So it seems I was more or less right? They did not have a perfect understanding of different forms of government, and europeans classified them as a "confederacy"?

I think after hundreds of years they would have been able to classify themselves in any number of ways. I'm not really a historian however so I can't say too much about it.

>>138504633
>>They definitely had organized systems of law in place.
>
>Well, can you substantiate this more? I'm just curious what sort of legal code could justify for example public sacrifice.

That kind of system is what i would call a good old theocracy. Their way of life was bound up in politics for sure, but even politics most of the time fell under the umbrella of ancient beliefs and religion.

I've run across this guy's videos multiple times. He's a total leftist revisionist, which explains his weak effeminate/homosexual lisping voice.

Virtually nothing he says on or related to the subject of colonisation is legitmate.

>>138504834
But they did, pendejo.

How many Spanish died when they came to the Americas from all causes? Year in, year out, they lost half their ranks consistently for decades. This was due to diseases mostly.

>>138505085
Tradition credits the formation of the confederacy, between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah, born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an Onondaga living among Mohawks, to abandon cannibalism and advance “peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law” as sanctions for confederation. Cemented mainly by their desire to stand together against invasion, the tribes united in a common council composed of clan and village chiefs; each tribe had one vote, and unanimity was required for decisions. The joint jurisdiction of 50 peace chiefs, known as sachems, embraced all civil affairs at the intertribal level.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Iroquois-Confederacy

This is a nice place to start.

>>138505085
>That kind of system is what i would call a good old theocracy. Their way of life was bound up in politics for sure, but even politics most of the time fell under the umbrella of ancient beliefs and religion.

well not exactly. Even in theocracies there exists a code of law. For example, you cannot be burned in the pyre if there is not an accusation of a crime against you. So there usually is at least the semblance of a "trial" where a person is accused and can defend themselves.

>>138505362
Of course they died for diseases and for lack of provisioning

Im even giving you the ones that you were more advanced in astronomy and textiles, but saying "we wuz" is a big bullshit, chinese peopel used power for thousands but we made weapons with that, people was sailing for thousands but we crossed an ocean with our boats, our art wasnt comparable with anything from before

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captura_de_Atahualpa

please tell me that is advanced technologycally

> in the conquest of America

Well, spaniards barely used guns, we used crowbars, a weapon that was essential in that time because it was more precise than the primitive fireguns of that time, and also were capable to surpass the armor. The use of guns was very late.


Daily reminder that the spanish conquest was diplomatic (Cortés) and tactical (Pizarro), without that the war would have been much more long and bloody. Instead they conquered massive portions of land in little time.

BTW the desastrous state of latin america in our days comes from their liberators, the faggots destroyed the system used by the spaniard, disconnecting the relationship of the rural areas (natives) and rulers. This only brought wars, fights for regions,and shit, damning the natives to live marginally to our days.

>>138494137
I make wooden bows and they may have better precision but they did not have better range and also when you are hit by a musket you are fucking blown apart. Also Spanish brought crossbows to the Americas and crossbows were feared by the natives because of their power and accuracy. There are literary sources on this.

>>138506869
>crowbars


WHAT THE FUCK DID I SAID LOL

i mean crossbow

File: aztecs vs spanish.png (171KB, 314x595px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 314x595px

>>138493621
>>138494137

>horses/mounted combat and cavalry
>metal armor
>advanced tactics revolving around killing instead of capturing people for sacrifice/slavery
>guns
>canons

Spanish beat the fuck out of the natives in numerous battles while massively outnumbered. They did not win these battles because of disease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Otumba

Don't forget slow death by lead, and sepsis from the wound.

Why do you think gunshot was treated with amputation up through the Civil War, lead balls are a bitch kids.

>>138506596
>>138506596
>but saying "we wuz" is a big bullshit

I don't know what this means exactly.

What i can say without a doubt is that we will never know just how advanced they were because only fragments could remain from 500 years ago let alone a thousand.

The records that might have given us that insight got burnt to a crisp and the people that might have passed that knowledge down got murdered.

Right or wrong, there is just no knowing precisely how far they got, but they achieved great things while enduring greater isolation and in a shorter amount of time than any other people. That much is plain for me to see.

>>138506573
They definitely had traditions that they went by. When laws can't be codified tradition is the crux on which they stand.

Maybe that's not very satisfying to you but many tribes were successful for very long periods under that system and they were able to expand that to reach other tribes like i said. Whether positively by including them or for purposes of destroying competing tribes and factions.

>>138506869
>Crowbars

A weapon to surpass the metal gear

File: 4704.jpg (202KB, 1200x300px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 1200x300px

>>138504040
Most tribes lived independently from each other it's a big continent, most tribes had no king or ruler, therefore that's how most natives lived.

>>138504319
Small pox can be cured with it, as it's probably an inmunological enhancer, it was often used during the time, along with many other preparations, not all died so it probably does something.

The quipu it's a written language as it has symbols that correspond to phonetics, regardless the empire was still working by the time the spanish arrived and the methods of organization are well described.

Including the public mail system.

File: Hernán Cortés.jpg (156KB, 681x900px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 681x900px

>>138507605

>>138494137
Guns are easier to aim and BTFO all kinds of armor. European bows were much better than native american stone age shit too.

>>138494475
Give sauce on these sewers. Many European villages had a garbage/sewer canal running through them. It's a concept only niggers and Indians can't wrap their heads around.

>>138495412
Some shitting canals does not make you equal to the Romans.

File: aa003154a28f47f7461cfd464cbcf1d2.jpg (20KB, 320x256px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 320x256px

daily reminder native americans summoned ancient magic powers, so there was no need for material technology

>>138494885
Yes I'm sure some bows outrange a .50-.80cal, blackpowder musket. The musket will BTFO armor though and is easier to aim.

>>138508330
Yeah.

So what?

File: 1502993486657.png (419KB, 1353x769px) Image search: [Google]

419KB, 1353x769px

Your slaves were out dated.

>>138494137
The conquistadors had to experiment a little, but they found that good quilted armor made them practically immune to arrow attacks.

Musket or armored formation tactics are a little harder to understand from a modern perspective than the guerilla/raider tactics of the natives. Like, why would British soldiers march around bunched up in bright red coats, instead of sneaking around and shooting from cover?

The first thing you have to understand is that their main focus wasn't on killing enemy forces, it was on seizing key tactical and strategic points. If you can march where you want and deter the enemy from effective attacks, you never have to fight them to the death.

The second thing is that muskets are individually inaccurate at long ranges, but exceptionally effective as an area weapon when fired in concentrated volleys, and sufficiently accurate at short ranges to make charges against musket formations suicidal. It's important to remember that soldiers could easily carry (and afford) a hundred or more bullets and powder charges, whereas arrows are expensive and bulky, so the musketeers could spend their shots more freely. Furthermore, arrows are visible in flight, so can be dodged or blocked, especially at long ranges.

The third thing you have to take into account is psychology/morale. It's a terribly frightening thing to approach a musket or armored formation, to think that their offense or defense is impenetrable, and having seen them and been too afraid to attack once, you're broken. Everyone wants to be on the winning team, so European invaders found making allies and recruiting defectors much easier than you might expect.

File: padre island.jpg (47KB, 1000x630px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 1000x630px

Look it's a bow-gun. The Spanish at one point employed the locals to fashion bolt heads out of sheet copper. The role of native allies of the Spanish is frequently intentionally ommited. What brought down the native population was a treason of everyone against everyone on a mass scale.

File: SMUGMEGUMIN.jpg (77KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 1280x720px

>>138508526
but the power of magic negates existence and the nature of gunpowder itself, try again

>>138508666
am i right satan , us native americans had a different idea of slaves

File: serveimage.jpg (522KB, 1283x1559px) Image search: [Google]

522KB, 1283x1559px

>>138494137
*blocks your path*

File: MonteAlbanWest.jpg (92KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 800x600px

>>138508330
Not only sewers, acueducts, central goverment, advanced teaching of math and science, the development of mendelian genetics and the production of manipulated crops, to name a few advances, it's obvious that people in the americas reached a classical age that's parallel to euro/asian civilization.

>>138493621
The natives sold their land for alcohol and guns. Seems they weren't very advanced, or just didn't give a shit like yuppies do.

>>138493621

dude.. look how big is Central and South America.. one small country aka Spain colonized all of you, that says everything.

>>138509318

nope, thats pure bullshit, is same bullshit with pyramids, nobody knows who made them and how, but everyone in Egypt assume they made it lol.

>>138499331
>textiles and astronomy, that are far more advanced than most european cultures

no

>>138495179
The very idea of "settled science" is an insult to science. Science is never settled. Relativity, for example, may turn out to be wrong once we take to the stars (if we ever make it). Science is in a constant state of flux.

>>138509318
Why did they fail to culturally assimilate the conquerors, the way greek culture assimilated roman culture, and christian culture pagan barbarians?

>>138509397
this is an inaccurate statement , specifically in the fact that there were no treaties which contained the conditions which you speak of

File: C53oeeSWQAA3tki.jpg (123KB, 1168x1152px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 1168x1152px

>>138494137
>tfw too smart to invent guns

>>138510209
Many people don't know the catholic church literally divided the Americas for Spain and Portugal. They made it legal to enslave non-christians.

The fact of the matter was the monarch is 4k miles away so fuck her, theyre only christians if we let them be right? so lets just enslave everyone we can find.

People don't have any idea of the numbers of natives who were slaughtered or enslaved even though they wanted to become christians if only to avoid a horrible end.

Look this shit up it was around 1500 when they came out with the first decree.

Europeans didn't want to advance them in anyway, only subjugate and murder them. Never mind the shit the monarchs were saying, what was happening on the ground by people like columbus destroyed any hope for that.

A big reason he was dishonored and thrown in a cell after all his so-called good work was that he was destroying the queen's 'christian subjects' and actually interfering with the spread of christianity out of his own greed.

>>138493621
Europeans would not have survived here (particularly in the north) if the Native Americans didn't help them. If Indians killed every white they ever saw they might still be here. Same for Africans and Asians. Europe couldn't penetrate and hold territory in Africa or Asia until the industrial revolution. The conquest of Africa would have much harder if there wasn't a transatlantic slave trade. The only "strength" of the European is an unrivaled tendency to kill. But your day is up and white supremacy is dead.

>>138510304
There were no treaties.
From what I remember, the Europeans would show up in an area and trade with the natives. Then they'd fuck off.

>>138510893

hahaha... please continue

Hatuey (/ˈɑːˈtweJ/), also Hatüey (/ˈɑːtˈuːˈeJ/) (died February 2, 1512), was a Taíno Cacique (chief) from the island of Quisqueya (now Hispaniola), who lived in the early sixteenth century. He has attained legendary status for leading a group of natives in a fight against the invading Spaniards, and thus becoming one the first fighters against colonialism in the New World. He is celebrated as "Cuba's First National Hero".[1] The 2010 film Even the Rain includes a cinematic account of Hatuey's execution.

In 1511, Diego Velázquez set out from Hispaniola to conquer the island of Cuba (Taino name, recorded by Columbus). He was preceded, however, by Hatuey, who fled Hispaniola with a party of four hundred in canoes and warned some of the Native people of eastern Cuba about what to expect from the Spaniards.[2]

Bartolomé de Las Casas later attributed the following speech to Hatuey. He showed the Taíno of Caobana a basket of gold and jewels, saying:

Here is the God the Spaniards worship. For these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea... They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break...[3]
The Taino chiefs in Cuba did not respond to Hatuey's message, and few joined him to fight. Hatuey resorted to guerrilla tactics against the Spaniards, and was able to confine them for a time. He and his fighters were able to kill at least eight Spanish soldiers. Eventually, using mastiffs and torturing the Native people for information, the Spaniards succeeded in capturing him.

>>138511218
On February 2, 1512, he was tied to a stake and burned alive at Yara, near present-day City of Bayamo (See Jose Barreiro, "A Note on Taino," in View From the Shore, Cornell Akwe:son Press, 1990.)

Before he was burned, a priest asked Hatuey if he would accept Jesus and go to heaven. Las Casas recalled the reaction of the chief:

[Hatuey], thinking a little, asked the religious man if Spaniards went to heaven. The religious man answered yes... The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there but to hell so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people. This is the name and honor that God and our faith have earned.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatuey

>>138494475
River valley civilizations like the ones in Pakistan had that, europeans are just disgusting.

>>138497637
>It was the law for the English to train for 2 hours daily with bows until 1960
Citation needed, neither of my grandfathers have ever even touched a bow.

File: pdun.jpg (37KB, 720x779px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 720x779px

>>138511005
Oh as if in the earliest days that you colonialists didnt have either a verbal or written contract with us, either in your language , or the interpretation of agreement within our society

even the most idealized animated version of himself he's a pudgy smug-eyed freak with a patchy beard.

Really starting to believe in genetic determinism

File: araucania-pampas.png (832KB, 932x673px) Image search: [Google]

832KB, 932x673px

>>138509755
We know who made them, their own bones are next to the ruins, and they left paintings and statues of people that looks just like their descendants look like.

This cultures were fully civilized and developed, rather you like or not, the point about what stuff it's better it's just a gloryfied pissing contest.

The point is that they were humans, educated and respectful, that got massacrated like cattle because it was the right time do it.

File: imisshoobastank.jpg (23KB, 398x500px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 398x500px

>>138493621
yea man your bows were wayy better, lotta good that did ya huh?

>>138512728

yeah yeah dude, we know that story.. now explain how you can move a block of 100 tones of granite, we have trouble doing it today.

>>138513260
You don't move it, you mix it.

It's artificial limestone.

>superior
They haven't even invited the wheel by the time the Europeans came.

File: 1482336043211.jpg (48KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 480x360px

>>138513366

you are an idiot

>>138513636
read the thread.

>>138493621
The most advance native at the time were the Inca they had bronze weaponry. A few Indian in the pacific northwest had iron weapons when we first arrived but it's believe they got them either with trade in Siberia or Japanese junks that lost their crews.

>>138494137
The only thing the bow had over guns was the speed in which the fired. One of the reason why the bow replaced the gun was because it takes years of training to become a master bowmen. You could teach someone to fire a gun somewhat accurately in a day. So no.

>>138508218
The Aztec had aqueducts and sewers.
http://www.cabnr.unr.edu/saito/classes/nres400/readings/becerril07.pdf

>>138509755
God you're fucking retarded, we know who made the pyramids. The Aztec and Mayans and a few lesser civilizations inslaved locals and those are the ones who built the pryamids.

Sources: I got a fucking degree in this shit.

>>138514058
>Sources: I got a fucking degree in this shit.

you are fucking retarded, what you've learn is what some one else from decades ago was thinking is right.. look out of the box, all those megaliths wasn't made by natives, they could not do that, they just assumed they own everything, and build generally in top of that, but not on that scale.

File: qmY5Dlq.jpg (2MB, 2300x2100px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2300x2100px

>>138514396
prove it, asshat

evidence contrary to your argument abound but i've never heard any legitimate argument that natives had nothing to do with any of these pyramids or other megalithic structures.

why come on the internet to lie? what sort of person would do such a thing?

File: Ladrillo-1-litro.jpg (131KB, 640x378px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 640x378px

>>138514396
You are the idiot, if you have time you can research on the work of Janusz Mikula on geoplymers done with volcanic ash.

It's not only possible but the best explanation.

It's stupid to claim that the people there didn't do it, given that all the evidence points to that, and there's zero evidence that points to anything else.

>>138513821
You're arguing the superiority of a dead and forgotten civilization.

>>138514396
Then who do you think built them? Because someone who has been on the ground must know over people who have spent decades studying not only native mexican culture but also the spanish.

BTW these pyramids aren't fucking complex inside they are a pile of rubble with some flat stones around them to even them out and then stucco put on top of that to make a nice finish. They are literally a pile of very pretty and even rocks.

File: 8-kar-5.jpg (330KB, 1300x867px) Image search: [Google]

330KB, 1300x867px

>>138514658

take a piece of evidence fucktard, while you ignore everything else around you

>>138514937
Again, read the fucking thread.

I am not doing what you just claimed.

>>138495209
they won the wars because the natives turned on each other when they realized they could benefit from european protectorate status against older rivals

File: 45673163081f_sf_2.jpg (69KB, 720x404px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 720x404px

>>138515022
A mold will still give you that shape,

>>138515017
>Then who do you think built them?

Honestly I have no idea. But for sure not what we call today "natives". Moving blocks of 50-100 tone of granite or other stone is a challenge even today. Also things like Dendra sky star map really show that primitive natives are not the ones who studied the sky and know it at such level.

File: Romanianhistory.png (458KB, 682x1065px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 682x1065px

>>138514658
A Romanian, duh. Seriously, it only gets worse from here. You could say that Romanians have a reputation of sorts. Pic related.

>>138515477
Also this^

When the Spanish first arrived many tribes along the coast joined up with them to overthrow the Aztecs. Same thing happened to the Inca as well.

>>138515022
Are you one of those people who believe that aliens built all of our megaliths? If so here is a few videos to check out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pZ7uR6v8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVcF8VL1VU

>>138516152
>Are you one of those people who believe that aliens built all of our megaliths?

I said i have no idea who made them. And I do not fall into retarded conspiracy theories. I am looking at all evidences, that's all.

>>138515022
>>138515022

You're not convincing anyone by baiting us.

What is the evidence precisely. Big claims require big evidence, or shall we debate the semantics of evidence and arguments now also?

How exactly does one stupid picture prove that no natives built any megaliths?

>>138515017
Most of them are like this, but some of them do have inner chambers albeit nothing like the Egyptians, they definitely had small passage ways and in some cases bigger ones where ceremonies might have taken place and such.

>>138515891
I hope this isn't true.

I'm beginning to believe it.

File: churros.jpg (36KB, 473x599px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 473x599px

>>138494885
YET WE STILL GOT OUR SHIT PUSHED IN. MOVE ON NIGGA

>>138493621
>more technologically advanced than Europeans

Get their asses handed to them at almost every turn. Get herded on to reservations. Virtually extinct.

Perhaps their race was just weak.

>>138493621
Why didn't you actually genocide these people burgers? They claim you genocided them anyway so you might as well have actually attempted to

>>138516889
this claim makes the outcome more embarrassing, really

>>138516428

well, before we all lose all our sense of reality, you try to explain me, that "Egyptians" was so technologically advanced (sky study, mathematics, etc) and they suddenly just fall apart, right?

File: 67D8A881-3DF1-4FAD-9342-1E2F5880A494.jpg (1MB, 1936x2592px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1936x2592px

>>138517063
See, you should have payed more attention in English class because i can't piece together just what the fuck you are asking me.

Egypt didn't just fall apart or vanish some day. That history is well recorded all the way back to Alexander the great, subsequent Greek rule and influence which later led to roman superiority in the region.

If you ever go to a half decent museum you would see the blending of the cultures over centuries. Statues with representations of traditional Egyptian gods with those brought by the Greeks and Romans.

What is you point, brother. Seriously.

File: music-memes-music-life.jpg (80KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 600x450px

>>138516889
>Virtually extinct.

There's more of us than ever.

>>138493621
>That effeminate lisp.
>That weak, shrill, faggy high pitched voice
>That even higher pitched enunciation at the end of sentences.

Is leftism and historical revisionism a symptom of soyboy syndrome?

>>138494034
> Stone Age
I think they were a little less advance then that.

File: UnU70HQ.jpg (452KB, 1388x900px) Image search: [Google]

452KB, 1388x900px

>>138494554
bows are better than gunpowder weapons the problem is training people to use a bow take a lot of time compared to muskets

Damn I took a nap and you people are still denying science.

I showed you a video written by a white HISTORIAN with scientific sources. And all of you whiteys give me feels

>B-BUT MUH CONQUISTADOR ARMOR.
>MUH GUNS

MUUUUUUHHH GUUUUNS
This expression indicates a cracker's confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted with something he can not understand or respond to, crackers mumble, "Muh gun" or "Muh gun, muthafucka." This is usually followed by circular reasoning and bad arguments.

>>138517444

dude.. there is no point to continue discussion, you are unprepared for it and you barely scratch the surface. Petra is considered to build 150k-250k years ago and lots of megaliths are much older that you think.

>>138518058
If one can be blocked by a couple layers of tanned hide, I'm not calling it better. No one grabs their "emergency bow" when someone breaks and enters.

>>138518295
If what you're saying is true just prove it.

I only ask you to prove your claims as i have substantiated mine.

The oldest human remains ever found is about 150k years old and you're telling me Petra was there since before humans existed, survived multiple ice-ages and so on.

How exactly am I to take this shit seriously?

Back up what you're saying or go do what you're good at: Jerking off.

>>138518499

There are studies made on rock sediments and erosion, but what can i explain to an idiot?

>>138518699
No, You're right. Discussing with soft-brained morons is a total waste of time.

I hope you have a hot sister or else your life is sadder than I thought in the first place.

Good luck, coward.

>>138518942

lol.. burger on fire :D

>>138518285
Please, explain how, in a world where technology currently does exist, and we have the capability to replicate either culture, that everything is based on European design. Why do we not use the clearly superior bow instead of firearms in modern day affairs?

I want to use the best weapon at my disposal, so why should an Indian designed bow be my choice; what makes it "better?"

>>138519079
>Please, explain how, in a world where technology currently does exist, and we have the capability to replicate either culture, that everything is based on European design. Why do we not use the clearly superior bow instead of firearms in modern day affairs?

Are you absolutely re-fucking-tarded? Today's guns are obviously one quadrillion times better than the guns you had back then. The only thing is that as you slaughtered us, only your technology got to improve while ours fell out of style. Are you legitimately retarded?

And given that (source: the white historian in my video) we were more technologically advanced at the time, if we had not been invaded then probably right now we would have better technology in general. We would be on mars or some shit, but your racism did not let that happen.

>>138518699
Considering that Petra it's carved into rock, I fail to see how determining that the rock had human contact at that time, automatically means that the whole complex was built at that same date.

>>138518285
>denying science
>Historian
HahahahaImgoingtokillmyself

>>138518058
>bows are better than gunpowder weapons
You cant just say "its better". Better in what? You will not penetrate plate armor with bow. You can't have loaded bow ready to shoot. Both weapons have their pros and cons. But gunpowder weapon is without question more powerfull than any native american bow.

>>138519337

about 15% from Petra is above surface, rest is still underground even today.. and will remain like that for a loooong time

File: Bird_Tres.jpg (3MB, 2592x1944px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2592x1944px

>>138519409
Read the fucking thread.

You're not the first asshat to make his way into this thread and ask retarded questions that have been answered.

Search some keywords before asking retarded bullshit would you?

>>138519569
no one is taking your word for it, asshat

>>138494475
sewers win wars everyone.

If you all were so advanced then why didn't you sail across the Atlantic first?

>>138519662

listen small dick, stop trying to convince everyone around you that you are right always.. asshole..

>>138519756
Look at the shape of america and now compare it to the shape of Eurasia. Is there any place in America that looks like it would incentivize the creation of big trading ships?

I know tiny white brains can't understand so let me simplify the question:

IN BIG GREEN AMERICA PLACE IS THERE A BIG LAKEY LAKEY OCEAN PLACE CONNECTING TWO BITS OF IT, OR IS IT JUST A STRAIGHT LINEY LINE OF LINEY LAND?

File: 1481364027968.png (320KB, 507x353px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 507x353px

>>138519756
Who says they didn't?

There's stories from the Northern Europe region of Dark people sailing into those lands and departing afterwards. They didn't settle but if you believe the stories there was contact.

Island hopping by canoe was how people colonized the Caribbean in a similar fashion as natives got from Canada to Greenland and Iceland and then Europe.

>>138519940
Haha still not a link to substantiate anything. I knew you were coward.

>>138493621
Never bring bows to a gun fight.

>>138520055
There's also the father Crespi collection that included pieces of work that looked extremely similar to summerian/egyptian cultures and so on.

It's probable that there was a lot of contact with the new world, but no one felt the need to completely destroy the culture and loot the continent until the caucasians saw a chance for it.

>>138519409
He is also acting like "Native American Bow" is a designation with a particular meaning. The various Amerindian groups have different bow designs and some were better than others. The fact is most Native Americans were not all that advanced.

This guy's video basically boils down to: disease caused varying levels of societal breakdown among the Amerindians. They would have been more advanced at their prime (ie a few decades earlier). I will now take this as license to imagine them as really advanced with no real evidence whatsoever. Because once you've established that there really isn't much evidence that survived or was recorded you can just claim whatever. Also, cherry picking. And ignoring anything that hurts his point.

>>138520348
green arrow?

come on now.

>>138493621
All that technological superiority, still died to the common cold.

>>138520384
Mind posting some of that?

Sounds like bullshit to me personally.

I don't believe the Olmec were a bunch of KANGZ if that's what you're essentially advocating here.

>>138493621
Sure, we won in Otumba cause of diseases.

>>138493621
>arow and bow
>wooden club with teeth
>muskets
with all the buildingtech during centuries...ok

>>138520055
No proof, they also could have been Persians/Poos/Berbers...
>>138520045
Google 'X' coastal Latin American country plus natural harbor. Y'all had lots of places, no fucking excuse.

>>138520692
Are you 500 years old? Shut the fuck up.

>>138495209
Natives also gave europeans disease so it went both ways nigger

File: Chief_Joseph_Nimipu_Nez_Perce.jpg (112KB, 611x836px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 611x836px

>>138520799
The reason gigantic ships weren't build was that the technology didn't exist, it is literally that simple.

However, seafaring vessels capable of carrying 100 men rowing were commonplace and well documented. The canoes were just as fast if not faster than the ships the Spanish had.

I would just say keep an open mind. I'm certain there are sources that would point to Natives moreso than those other people you mentioned although there was definitely contact with those middle eastern sorts also.

Is it really so difficult to imagine that people who could literally live in ice could also hop around a few landmasses? Some of those motherfuckers had balls of steel; i wouldn't be so quick to discount them is all.

>>138501650
>Moche indians in Chile
They lived in the peruvian northern coast.
And I think you are referring to their electrochemical replacement method of plating gold onto copper, discovered some centuries ago.
Is a shame that such valuable technique disappeared after their collapse

File: b25971fd36b108515fdef799b9ffad9b--adrian-paul-highlanders.jpg (15KB, 236x354px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 236x354px

>>138520831
What are you racist against immortals?
I'm not 500 tho. Just 425.

File: Amazonian_Bow_and_Arrow.jpg (113KB, 634x635px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 634x635px

>>138521320
Yes.

If you have more definitive proof of this than my links feel free to post them. Like i said that is probably the most fascinating thing I have seen relating to advanced technology.

So much god damn potential. Imagine a Moche Thomas Jefferson electrocuting the shit out of things and people lol. Just great.

>>138521534
Why do I want to believe you right now?

>>138493621
"Europeans only won the wars because of the diseases they brought.:

Pretty much true. European diseases killed 90% plus indians on contact, their societies never recovered. At the same time, that also made the N American continent pretty much empty for the taking

>>138521613
Because I was born in the highlands of Scotland in the year 1592?

>>138521680
So were you for the conquest of America or just a haggis handler?

>>138493621
NOSOTROS

File: crespi.jpg (194KB, 960x610px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 960x610px

>>138520659
Sure.

Olmec heads are even more impressive by the way.

>>138521831
For. Gotta find those immortals that were born in America as indians.

File: 1502916944157.jpg (204KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 768x1024px

>>138519662
You sound like some angry faggot with lot of complexes. Why so butthurt? Europeans were on much higher civilization level than native americans and no history revisionism will change that. You have some cool feather headdress shit I will give you that. But you were in stone age. Chill faggot.

File: CulturaMocheMochica-Ceramica-Mosaico.jpg (60KB, 750x500px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 750x500px

>>138522190
>Revisionism.

>>138521214
I'm a huge history fag actually and the statement native Americans were more advanced than Europeans is factually wrong. I could give hundreds of examples but that was the first that came to mind.

The fact that the technology didn't exist was the point I was trying to make. Yes the natives have canoes/kayaks and yes the were faster than rowboats but not the sail ships by a long shot, that's not even debatable.

It is possible that the Thule/Inuit contacted Scandinavians because that's a much smaller distance plus help from sea ice. There is some minor proof of that but I'm too lazy to dig it up. However when the colonization period began it might as well been an invasion by space aliens in terms of technological differences.

>it's another central/south american mestizos talk about colonization while North Americans reply and neither side bothers to state the obvious that they have nothing to do with each other and this thread shouldnt exist since there wasn't a single spanish or portugal flag

>>138521652
This is strictly incorrect. European warfare at the time was based around pike formations, which are extraordinarily effective against the shock troop tactics of South Americans. The style of warfare gave Europeans as much of an advantage as their steel, if not more so.

This assertion also ignores that European forces had high casualty rates from foreign diseases as well.

File: olmecas-cabeza-1.jpg (290KB, 750x780px) Image search: [Google]

290KB, 750x780px

>>138522422
>Ignoring all evidence of someone else reaching america, or this same people being able to reach europe.

>>138494137
>we didn't even need guns.

Featherniggers were actually extremely effective when they got their hands on Henry rifles.

File: 43534534545.jpg (33KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 640x480px

>>138494137
>bows are better than guns

>>138522422
Even if they flat out said Andean or Maya they would still be wrong. Sure the two I mentioned did some impressive things but on average they were not more advanced than Europeans or even the Chinese.

>>138522190
If you read the thread you will see some asshat was trying to bait me.

Just telling you to read or at least look up the phrases you want answered because all of your points were previously addressed.

It's a total waste of time to go in circles on shit everyong i this thread already drew a conclusion on.

>>138522387
By and large I agree with your sentiments.
I'm not the dude who started the thread but I'm just contributing to the other side of the argument. We wouldn't want to get too bored doing a circle jerk would we.

Still I have learned a couple of things from this thread like
>>138522364
>>138522144
I will be looking into.

>>138522422
>they have nothing to do with each other and this thread shouldnt exist since there wasn't a single spanish or portugal flag

This is wrong. Before Europeans there were trade routes connecting essentially all natives in some form or another. Look into it if you want. Mayan artifacts in Florida and Georgia.

Aztec artifacts way up in Colorado and so forth. The Caribbean acting as a highway for trade and war. There is a lot to the idea that these people were way more connected than they are given credit for.

>>138521613
As far I know they didn't used batteries or knew how electricity works or shit like that, it was a clever technique however

come get your land back then tough guy

>>138494137
Get a load of this subhuman nigger, it thinks it's better than whites.
Tell me, niggerboy, where's your nigger empire if whites are so inferiour?

>>138522768
Bows wielded by highly-trained warriors defending a hunter-gatherer tribe vs. guns wielded by any fat Britbong defending an agricultural village. In any war the fatties win by sheer quantity.

File: kek.jpg (277KB, 1257x645px) Image search: [Google]

277KB, 1257x645px

Just look at this guys other videos.
He clearly has no shame.
Absolutely disgusting.

File: world_map_of_y-dna_haplogroups.png (887KB, 3000x1900px) Image search: [Google]

887KB, 3000x1900px

>>138522894
Yeah, I mean there's very big broad words being used here.
" Native Americans and Europeans " when it's important to differentiate between, say , Spain and Portugal from England and France, or Aztecs/Mayans and cold climate nomads and eskimos.

File: afae.png (119KB, 998x384px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 998x384px

we dont need to take back our land, we are carefully controlling all your mechanisms of society as our own illuminati, we are the dawn. You will call me Lord, but I will call you brother

They had 40,000 years and never independently invented the wheel. The Wheel. It's like the second thing you do in a game of civ.

The only other people they share this with are Africans and Aborigines. Every other race managed to do it.

Their lives before Europeans were nasty, brutish and short. And every tribe lived in a state of perpetual war with every other tribe.

If you're going to reply to this thread don't forget to sage.

Jews want to make us believe that natives in the Americas had about to come to light technologies that could had make a stand against europeans. Thus, had the spaniards' journey be posponed for a century or so the world as we know it would be something unthinkable.

Reminder that this is a Jewish-founded plan to demoralize white people, make us believe into the noble savage retoric so that it can be easier to plunge White girls into the race mixing trap.

File: 1470865417343.png (2MB, 1500x1059px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1500x1059px

>>138522422
You called?

>>138523930
This was a bait thread from the start. If that wasn't obvious to you i don't know what to say.

Start another thread if you want to dig really deep and get specific. (not saying it wont be hi-jacked and turned to shit but you can try)

I made that distinction a couple of times myself, but it's hard to be precise when discussing such a wide range of topics with so many people.

>>138524097
nice propaganda. reads the thread.

>>138524161
you too, hitler jr.

>>138496980
>Did Europeans bring all the livestock here when it was colonized?

Spanish explorers tended to travel with a horde of pigs. Some would wander off and that's why there are hogs all over the US.

>>138493621
Most of what most people conceive about """""native""""" americans is from media or lore. Go to a reservation to see what they're actually like, or a bus stop in Arizona. You'll probably find some passed out smelling like piss there. They're a step below spics in terms of civility, a bit less violent but more primitive.

File: olmecas3.jpg (31KB, 406x283px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 406x283px

>>138524572
>Natives around my shitty area and culture are all that exist or ever existed.

>>138522422
Hola. Op is idiot, end of thread.

>>138524421
Yeah it is a bait thread and I waited so I didn't bump it but seeing as its already a full fledged thread I might as well. I get enough whites on twitter always using natives in their liberal arguments. Adding resentment against us when they don't have the right to represent us at all and it adds up over time and this is a similar situation with this we wuz kangs shit posting.

>>138525072
There is merit to be found in the claim that natives had advanced tech.

If you look society by society and the real super powers its possible to find extremely impressive achievements.

The problem is the misinterpretation that all of them were not only capable of those great achievements but that it was so widespread and whitey don't know shit.

That just derails from the truth of the matter, like the Moche plating gold upon copper, or the Mayans building el Mirador which is a pyramid that is larger by volume than the great pyramid of Giza.

Or that other asshat that discounted the Iroqouis confederacy and their contribution to our system hundreds of years ago and the effect it subsequently had also.

I hate lefties but i equally if not more despise the nazi right-tards that refuse to give anything a fair shake.

>>138522894
I would recommend looking into all history particularity if you enjoy debating it. The problem with native American history is a mix of racism and anti white cock sucking. A lot of native groups have a few good things better than the Europeans, to deny that is foolish. However there is some over blowing to some accomplishments, and the biggest myth of all them saying they were peaceful before the white man came. In the subject of this thread the Aztecs were most likely responsible for the genocide of the Maya (the Spanish just killed some fragments of the former huge empire), but good luck getting modern academia to look deeper into that theory.

>>138525609
>>138525609
>In the subject of this thread the Aztecs were most likely responsible for the genocide of the Maya (the Spanish just killed some fragments of the former huge empire), but good luck getting modern academia to look deeper into that theory.

Mayans undid themselves by inter-city warfare. Think the Greeks except Mayans were about total destruction.

>>138525609
>and the biggest myth of all them saying they were peaceful before the white man came.

This is very true. War was a part of every day life. An enemy tribe comes by and tries to steal your women you will fucking murder them if you can of course.

Taino and Carib indians were at war constantly for the reason that the Carib would steal Taino women and then take them to another island where they were essentially prisoners. They would impregnate them leave them there with the mother until they were about 5-7 then take the boys and make them warriors. The divide was so big that men spoke Carib and women spoke Taino just because of that culture surrounding war for them. Rinse and repeat for centuries.

This is the reason the Garifuna people to this day essentially speak 2 different languages. Often enough men and women can't understand each other as a result of this history.

Although Taino were more peaceful and resolved conflicts by ball games, when Caribs came around they were ready to bash some fucking skulls.

>>138506896
racist sources which seek to whitewash history.
learn your place and bow to the superior afro-indian ytboi

>>138525609
Actually, the Aztecs probably had very little to do with the Maya. The Mayan Collapse happened a few centuries before the Mexica even migrated into the valley of Mexico (they were originally from somewhere to the north, either Northern Mexico or the Southwest United States). Also, the Mexica and their allies documented and explained their conquests and tributary vassals to the Spanish (probably with no shortage of glee) and really had little contact with the Maya. Some small scale trade and the occasional border skirmish, but by the time the Mexica established themselves and formed the Triple Alliance the Maya had long since become a spent force living in the shadow of past greatness. They were so pathetic at that point that the Aztecs didn't even feel like conquering them. Long distances, thick jungles, and a relative lack of wealth to plunder meant there was no reason for them to bother. And those Purepecha were a bigger priority anyway.

File: truerespect.jpg (95KB, 944x523px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 944x523px

WE WUZ KANG AND SHIET

although im biracial and enjoy english history as well, so im a double warrior

listen white people, I love all your warriors, as a native american, this makes sense to me, never take this away, I wish to be part of your awesome narrative, i dont care how many people try to take it down, I know that warriors we are, we must be warriors as one, this is why i love white people, i want to bring back the warriors in you all, because that is so epic

>>138493621
So you're telling me, that a more advanced civilization can be utterly destroyed if some inferior foreigners come with their diseases?

Wew, should we learn from history then?

>>138510893
>white people only won wars because they killed their opposition
what did you mean by this?

>>138494137

A medieval longbow shits all over Indian flatbows, anon.

The reason why the medieval longbow had short range is because they used heavy as fuck arrows for armor penetration.

>>138495633
That dude is 100% heeb.

>>138526839

And precision and range compared to the Brown Bess is BS

Smooth bore muskets were accurate out to 100 meters on a torso, and easy enough to do with training.

Hitting a torso at 100 meters with a traditional bow is very, very hard.

>>138495881
>medicine did not even fucking exist

lost. This mestizo is just too funny.

>>138515022
cut out a rough semicircle then grind it down smooth with a rotating grind stone. what's so mysterious about that?

>>138493621

I just love this idiotic myth of early firearms being shit.

I guess all those soldiery, including the elite Janissaries, were utter retards for abandoning their bows and spending all those mountains of gold on expensive arquebuses, muskets and gunpowder.

I mean seriously, the Janissaries abandoned the Turkish composite bow for the European arquebus ffs, they obviously worked.

>>138526839
>historians and weapon experts to this day cannot explain why Europeans immediately ditched cross bows for early muskets- which were undoubtedly inferior in every manner - other than making a giant , very intimidating bang when shot which scared and broke up charges of otherwise fearless tribal tier enemies.

>>138527681
Imagine the effectiveness of a powder musket from that era in a jungle. All of the wetness and humidity. The guerrilla style warfare being waged on them.

It was sure effective. Not as effective as an Indian shooting 12 arrows at you a minute. Can you see that side of the story?

Just splash some water on the wrong end of your gun and now it's essentially useless. In a raid that would be problematic to say the least.

>>138528129
thing is, arrows only do 10 dmg while guns do 60 dmg, and humans have an average of 100 hp so you would need to land 10 arrows to kill someone while only 2 bullets were needed in return

>>138528333
Nigga. What.

Have you ever seen an animal shot with a bow? You're kidding me right?

Even if one shot didn't kill a man it would disable him enough so that infection would kill him a week from then or better yet, if you can run the rest of them off for long enough you can just bash his skull in right then and there.

>>138528129

It depends, really.

I'd rather a decent chance of a 1 shot hit at 50-100 yards with a Brown Bess than a poor chance of hitting at 50 yards on a torso with a traditional bow.

An early rifle can give you a good chance at 200 yards.

The muzzleloaders weren't leaps and bounds over a bow by any means, but I'd rather one than a bow if I actually had to fight.

>>138528555
>>138528333
Well I think people give too much emphasis to the guns.

The truth is steel was much more valuable.

A wooden club is no match for a steel sword of that time. That, in my opinion made a much bigger impact than early guns ever could have.

>>138528129

> Not as effective as an Indian shooting 12 arrows at you a minute

Like literally every single primary source of the indian wars would disagree with you.

Native American bows had major issues piercing even light gambesons and leather buff coats.

>>138527785
Production cost. A crossbow with a heavy enough draw to penetrate armor requires complex machines to draw, such as a winch or a windlass. A 14th century handgonne is a tube on a stick set off by a wick on a different stick. Early hand firearms did not replace crossbows at all, they were just a cheaper alternative. People like >>138527041 who compare crossbows and manual bows to much more advanced firearms are the real retards.

>>138528129
Good thing firearms still weren't the primary weapon of war in Europe when Columbus landed in the late 15th century. Pikes were.

>>138528815

Yes, a sword is better than a club or stone axe, however, both generally will kill in melee range well enough. A club hitting a sword and vice-versa won't favor either.

A muzzleloader isn't always better than a bow, but overall, it generally will win with equal training.

The Euros had better weapons in both instances.

There's a reason why Euros dropped longbows and crossbows and went to muzzleloaders. They simply were more effective.

>>138528834
see

>>138528858


it all comes down to which era you speak of specifically and which wars. Open field wars like the Souix obviously lent guns a much steeper advantage, not only because they were much more advance, but because there was no jungle to worry about wasting your only shot on a stupid god damn tree then you have to reload for 2 or 3 minutes.

If we're talking about first contact, there is just no imagining a musket of 1492 holding up to the jungles of south america or the caribbean.

>>138529165
>There's a reason why Euros dropped longbows and crossbows and went to muzzleloaders. They simply were more effective.

Again, this depends on the field of battle. but generally speaking i agree, it was obviously the right move to go in the direction of adopting and improving firearms.

>>138528834

Yes, lighter arrows and broadhead-style points (Indians used stone triangles IIRC, which are similar) really suck against stacked fabric.

Medieval needle/bodkin points are generally what you need if someone is wearing anything better than a shirt.

File: S3 Yorkist.jpg (31KB, 288x348px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 288x348px

>>138529404
that why im about to go game of thrones on all mutherfuckers, even though im only part white

WE

File: 1456719979743.jpg (73KB, 1041x538px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 1041x538px

>WE WUZ KANGS AN SHIEEEEEEEEEET, the thread