Riddle me this, evolutionists:

Creativity can be selected for and applied to music. There are mathematical elements to music as well as similarities to human voices in instruments (flutes, distorted guitars) that make them appealing. Humans like to recognize patterns and singing is one way to create patterns. Voices produce emotion when they use different tones. Repetition (lullaby) is soothing to a child. Forceful music is motivating or intimidating to an army (loud horns and drums). Horns themselves sound similar to an amplified male voice. I don't know how to describe the character of religious music in a concrete way but that was important too.

>>138310737
now try and explain the origins of verbal language. you can't

>>138310088
>Music doesn't naturally occur
Like birdsongs?

>>138311090
Not prior to its evolution, you spazz

>>138311192
So things don't exist before they evolve? What are you trying to even fucking say?

>>138310088
Well a lot of music has devolved into jungle music, but you can thank Sumner Redstone and MTV for helping with that.

>>138310979
You just mean spoken language?
>guy points at thing and makes a sound repeatedly
>second guy starts making the sound too
>They reach an understanding to use that sound to refer to that thing
>Repeat and intensify complexity ad infinitum
>>138311414
Meanwhile literal jungle music has evolved into neoclassical music.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H28YlOrnTaA

>>138310088
Well birds did evolve to sing so surely that is an evolutionary trait and logic that could be applied to humans.

Music has been shown to have healing properties in calming patients and help ease worry. It is expression too. A universal language too. Look at the limitation of note structure yet expressed in nearly every culture through vocal chords and instruments.

You might as well ask
>But why muh art.

>In b4 you accuse me a theist of being muh atheist

>>138311291
He's trying to hide his gayness

File: Charles Fairfax Murray (1849–1919) The Concert - 1890.jpg (133KB, 1600x399px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 1600x399px

>>138310088
We did not go from nothing straight to Bach. When studying evolution we must look at intermediate forms. Primitive negroid populations don't have sophisticated counterpointed instrumental music, but they do have extensive percussion music. Percussion is the basal form of human music. In Africa, tribal males often participate in dance competitions in order to attract mates, so an ear for the beat may be a result of sex selection, the best dancers who were most in tune with the drumming were able to demonstrate their genetic fitness to females and successfully reproduce. As human populations entered Eurasia and evolved higher intelligence, more sophisticated musical displays and instruments were developed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ572yLH9sc

>>138311575
you seriously believe that the myriads of entire groups and tribes of people came to a consensus on which verbal sounds should be used to reference everything and each member of those respective groups somehow memorized each syllable and pronunciation that one person from each group arbitrarily placed on everything yet according to evolutionists these same people basically had monkey-tier IQs

File: IMG_4566.gif (2MB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x400px

Heart rate anon, variations of beat division. Seems wildly obvious we evolved mimicking this beat. Esp fetal heart rate against our mothers.

>>138310088

Observe that poetry did not appear as an independent art form, but rather split from music at one point, quite recent at that. All ancient shit (Oddyssey, Gilgamesh etc.) is written in regular verse with a particular rhythm. This suggests that it was supposed to be sung. This means that singing (music) predates speaking.

The simplest form of music is humming a tune. Now you have to realize that humming a tune is enough to express (communicate) a wide range of emotions, as does music in general. More importantly, music allows you to trigger emotions in the listener. This is clearly an advantagous ability. The most obvious example would be putting your horde in an appropriate mood before the battle or hunt.

Coincidentally, this is why (((they))) have hold of the music business; (((they))) use it to control the masses.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole on this, see:
The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World by Iain McGilchrist
The Origin of Conciousness in The Breakdown of Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes

I suggest start with McGilchrist because it's a modern synthesis of the subject; Jaynes is where these ideas originated in 1970s, so he was shooting in the dark so to speak.

Tangentially, look up High Level Insider threads on /pol/. This anon repeatedly referenced Jaynes, which brought me to McGilchrist, which has the above info clearly laid out.

>>138312120
>>138312120
The people who figured out how communicate and had the capacity for it were able to kill or subjugate those who didn't, or at least have the notable advantage of being able to say where the mammoth is, raising their status tremendously over those who couldn't. People would copy that of they could. It would grow slowly at first but at the point when you could explain words with other words it would shoot up exponentially.

>>138312539
are you even trying? that's a shitty attempt at a theory and doesn't even take into account the complexities of language

>>138313125
What's wrong with it?

>>138313320
it's a half-ass speculation relying on 'intuitive' logic and evolution memes

>>138310088
Musical talent is a trait showing greater intelligence. Primitive music was most likely that, primitive. But being better at making music makes one a better mate. So humans evolved and got better and better at making music by becoming more musically intelligent.

Thats the main theory anyway. Making music shows intellect and therefore improves ones chances to mate. Sexual selection if you will.

Its actually theorised that this is one of the reason humans evolved to be smart.
On one hand music improving sexual selection and on the other tool use improving natural selection.

>>138312539
>>138313125

>or at least have the notable advantage of being able to say where the mammoth is

For this to be useful, the listener has to understand what you are saying. This is why this reasoning breaks down; the first person to speak would have nobody to listen and understand them, rendering speaking useless.

But if you can modulate voice with the emotion of "danger" or "food" while pointing towards the mammoth then the rest of the horde will be able to understand and act.

Per McGilchrist (see above) treating language as a separate from music is an anachronism.
Modern Westerners have left-hemisphere-dominant brains and mistakenly believe that cavemen did also. Now a left-dominant brain values an abstract/verbal/logical communication (which the left hemisphere handles) above the emotional communication done by the right hemisphere. But the cavemen could not have a left-dominant brain, as it only appeared in late antiquity. Consequently, cavemen communication had to be more involving right hemisphere, i.e. music.

>>138313628
Let me spell it out for you:

>oog points at cow and makes noise
>boog points at cow and makes the same noise
>oog nods
>this repeats with everything that is important to the either of them
So now they have a vocabulary.
>oog and boog are in a tribe
>oog and boog teach their tribe this system
Now we have a group of people who speak this language.
>oog and boogs tribes major advantage over other tribes
>future generations add to the primitive language as time goes on because as humans discover more things there are more things to describe

Get it? Verbal communication was evolved because it provided a major advantage because to tell the hunting group to attack the boar from all sides they had to draw pictures or make hand motions, which they still might misinterpret. With language, the conveyal of information was made faster and easier because all Oog would have to say is "Boog you go that side"

>>138310088
Very little--if any--of what passes for "music" today sounds like it has "evolved" from music from the 1900s, 1800s, 1700s, 1600s. even the 1500s.

How to kill a (((intellectual atheist))):

Is abiogenesis faith-based?

Is abiogenesis observable or has it ever been recreated?

Btfo.

File: 1430035911488.jpg (12KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 250x250px

>>138310088
>Music doesn't naturally occur
*crickets*
(no literally crickets right now in my ears making songs)

Something tells me OP didn't think this post through.

>>138317866
What is "melody"?

>>138318137
Listen more carefully.

>>138313628
>>138313320

hes right though
the only other theories are 1.Aliens/Gods innovated our genetics/helped us evolve
or 2. Our primary ape ancestors had a diet based on lots of natural psychedelics which encouraged brain activity and sparks of creativity which led onto the foundations for language etc

>>138318214
Lol.

You can't be serious.

Compare "Horizons" by Parkway Drive to some insect yelling for poontang.

>>138318922
Okay hold on let me listen to it.

>>138318922
You haven't been listening carefully enough, the crickets build up into some amazing symphonies when I listen to them.

>>138318922
Lol parkway drive is shit no wonder i haven't heard them before.

>crickets anyday of the fucking week m89

>>138318922
>>138319078
>listens to parkway drive
>literally yelling

>>138312120
>Evolutionists

You mean normal people, you fucking tard

>>138319174
Self-hating Australian.

>>138319292
Why are there horse skeletons and Egyptian chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea? Smack dab in the middle?

Why are there petrified clams on top of Mt. Everest?

What is abiogenesis?

What happened before the Big Bang?


>"stupid Christians. My brain is too massive to argue these."

>>138310088
Dumbass spotted, what is birdsong, whalesong etc. Just another form of mating rituals, like dancing.

>>138319478
1. I don't think there are, but even if, a ship could've sank

2.the world was covered in oceans, it took millenia for mountains to rise out of it

3. No idea

4. Very small particles

God didn't shit out the world as it is, it developed over billions and billions of years

>>138319756
1. Wow. What a leap of faith. Did I mention the chariots are exactly the same model as those in Moses' time?

2. Unbelievable straw grabbing. Try a flood.

3. No shit.

4. None of your secular gods in the science field would agree with you. Try again.

>>138310088
>song doesn't naturally occur
Literally birds, natural phenomena (rain, thunders, wind, etc)
Sage

>>138319599
>>138320493

>"the name is birdSONG, whaleSONG anon. Don't you see that this means it fits the common, modern definition of composed melody?"

/jew

>>138319966
1. All they found was a fucking wheel

2. Because some old fuck also managed to steal kangaroos out of australia to repopulate the world with. And the planet is also 6000 years


Even if he exists god's an asshole anyway

>>138319966
What happened before the big bang can't be understood for sure unless we develop better ways of detecting gravitational waves, which for now it's the only viable solution to see what the fuck happened instantly after the big bang, as we can't "see" shit from the big bang until the end of the inflation and the cooling down of the universe (too much condensed matter for photons to pass through = we can't see what happened because even taking in consideration lightspeed, light couldn't actually reach us)
So, in a while we should be able to understand what happened instantly after/during the big bang and we should either get a better understanding of what was going on before or even discover that entirely

>>138320742

What? Wrong. Wyatt escavations.

>>138320776
So is it faith-based or not, (((shlomo)))?

Also: what is abiogenesis to you

>>138310088
Music and dance clearly have an important social function. Music presumably started out from rhythmic pounding together of stones and sticks and maybe humming with everyone sitting around a fire. Not difficult to understand why that would increase group unity more than everyone sitting silently or everyone focusing on a different thing. The music unites the individuals into a collective experience where the rhythm and accompanied swaying unites them. Then over time perhaps different rhythms and melodies began to carry different contents of group experience, say funereal, celebratory, calming, rousing, etc.

>>138310088
Music done right tickles a girl's vagina. Ever wonder why groupies are a thing? That's sexual selection right there

>>138314271
>>138312539
Holy shit you're retard. Even Koko the Gorilla can understand words.
And language diddn't jsut pop into existence it gets inherited from young age they repeate what the parents do say gesture and by this the tribe gets a langage together slowly.

>>138320642
LARPing nigger
Over time music developed to evoke emotions in the subject listening to it, that's how it even started to begin with (chanting around fire meme to party/prepare for war/etc)
But then again, who are you to say that to birds their brain doesn't processes their "songs" the same way our brain processes our modern music, actually evoking emotions? Because to me it would very logical for it to be that way

>>138320988
It's not faith based. It's the acceptance that either our universe has either some kind of physical limitations or our universe is actually a simulation. Lightspeed limit, Planck length, etc. The way in quantum mechanics everything is considered as "information".
What happened pretty much until the big bang is still being argued (but just to an extent, such as one argument is: there should have been tons of supermassive black holes that now are already evaporated, but that isn't the case), but the general understanding it's quite solid.
It is very possible that we'll never find out what was going on before or what made the big bang happen, mind you. Just think at Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Because of the laws of our universe (Planck constant specifically), we can't actually know exactly both momentum and position of a particle at the same time (again another limitation that points to our universe being an actual simulation). That may be the case too for the big bang, that just because of how our universe is structured we just cannot ever find out what happened
Abiogenesis is explainable. There are experiments that from basic elements you get through electrolysis basic amminoacids, lipids, etc.

>>138310088
>How did music evolve?
The blues and the 3-chord trick, man. Bone flutes found at Neanderthal sites shows they played a pentatonic scale.

>>138310088
>what is Mimesis

sorry bro, im not your mom, i dont have time to homeschool you.

>>138310088
from singing stupid idiot

>>138321975
>It is very possible that we'll never find out what was going on before or what made the big bang happen, mind you
LOL

>>138321975
You are unbelievably retarded, shlomo.

Unbelieveably.

Do you understand what Faith means? It means you draw conclusions in the absence of tangible evidence. You dumb fucking kike.

File: 1482259822994.jpg (96KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 1280x720px

The universe has a pattern. All logic can be derived after that. Music is playing magic for the Universe/God/whatever.

File: niggacantbelieve.gif (238KB, 159x158px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 159x158px

>>138312139
thanks for new reacion :)

>>138322398
?
>>138322656
Except there either are evidence or if there are none no theory is made, fucking faggot? Are you actually stupid or are you really LARPing this bad? Please tell me

>>138310088
Because evolution leads to organic structures not mechanical ones. Evolution makes mistakes all the times in trying to find solutions from the blind spots in your field of vision due to the eye evolving backwards, your laryngeal nerve taking a long detour from your throat down to wrapping around your heart to coming back up to the throat where the larynx is.

Creativity, emotions, feels, ect are all byproducts of evolutionary solutions that provided some mode of benefit. The only reason you're confused is because you think evolution means consistently getting better and more efficient when it's just about producing a better survivor.

>>138323205
The only this he's confused about is whether or not he should keep LARPing or shitposting or both

>>138322930
There is no evidence of abiogenesis you psuedointellectual, straw-grabbing moron. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but you hit a wall when you ran into me. You're destined to be a foreveralone fedora faggot unless you wake the fuck up.

Out of love for you, please legitimately spend 10 hours of your life and LEARN THE TRUTH:
https://youtu.be/pW0FIs9-8No

>>138323451
>TRUTH
>Kent Hovind
Pick one and only one.

>>138323451
Tell me, what is your field of study? What kind of degree do you have?

Also
>100 billion galaxies with 100 billion stars each with tons of planets each
>totally unrealistic for polymers, genes and enzymes like molecules to form
Pick one

Also, why should I believe in any religion more than in the fact we are in a simulation (which I may or may not believe, not important)?

>>138323787
Ad hominem. Faggot.

>>138323857
Kill yourself. My IQ is 142. I scored a PERFECT in my ACT reading and writing. And I packed up my giant testicles ans joined the Marine Corps infantry.

>>138323956
So no degree in any scientific field? Then shut the fuck up
Also
>t. muh IQ
First thing first it doesn't mean shit
Second, I once did one, didn't even bother finishing one because it was fucking stupid, I scored like 140/150 without the part I didn't finish
So literally neck youself

>Music doesn't naturally occur

I don't think this is actually correct, anonymous. In fact, I would go far as to say that all of existence is sound by way of the vibrations of superstitious. You are living the music of life in the mind of God my friend.

gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

>>138324462
yaya

>>138324282
"IQ doesnt matter"

Psuedo-intellectual faggot.

As far as degree:
Who Controls the Ivy League?
Summary:
Of the twenty-four(24) senior administrators of the Ivy League colleges and universities, twenty(20) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 83%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.

As an intellectual, you are to weigh BOTH sides and remain objective until your own conclusion is formed based on equal date comprehension. If you won't watch the video I linked, youre a Kike faggot.

>>138311933
>healing properties
kys new age shill
we ain't buying your crystals

>>138324505
I remained objective if you one side is scientifically based and the other not, kike
Do you even know Christianity branched off of judaism? Kek, this faggot

>>138324505
You're right. The reason why you didn't do better in life is because of the jews.

>>138324627
Yes, Judaism is the puppet master of Christisnity.

>being this fucking clueless

You havent stayed objective at all. You clearly don't even understand what that concept is. Learn what Creationism is in order to have an opinion on it. Does that fucking make sense yet?

>>138324651
I'm doing fine, faggot. Maybe I can draw you something with crayons to illustrate how a monopoly of government, media and industry is Un-Constitutional.
Www.thezog.info/list-summaries

>>138324585
You're a fucking retarded. If everything is vibrations and God is made of vibrations how the fuck wouldn't calling upon said vibrations have good outcomes huuuuuuhuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu you pseudo-intellectual fuck you haven't even grasped the smallest inkling of reality yet but you spout bullshit

File: Screenshot_20170820-135209.png (336KB, 1080x2220px) Image search: [Google]

336KB, 1080x2220px

>>138324585
Literally has healing properties.

Idiot.

>>138319478
You're so fuckig stupid.

The so called horse skeletons and chariot wheels claim originated from a literal fake news site called World News Daily Report.

The clams on top of Mount Everest is a combination of Everest being a lot close to see sea level way way back in the past and there was also the Antarctic ice-shelf slipping into the ocean, displacing massive amounts of water. There is evidence of flooding up to 10,000 ft but this was the result of the last ice age approximately 13,000 years ago.

The rest isn't even bothering with, you're a moron

>>138310088
>An affinity for melody would have to exist before the production of such instruments.
Many animals like music, human music, with instruments

Also whales literally sing to charm

The coordination of beats shows your neurons work well
The rest grew from there

>>138326171
It's not a hoax you fucking idiot. The man's name was Wyatt. He devoted his life to this. He was anti-Zionist Jew. Thats why he was squelched.

>>138329049
Not an anti-Zionist Jew.

He was anti-Zionist Jew.

>>138325005
Bro, kill yourself as soon as possible, I beg you

>>138329170
Whatever, kike. If you're not actually Jewish, you are the most useless traitor possible.

File: 1430145150-20150527.png (450KB, 684x2312px) Image search: [Google]

450KB, 684x2312px

>>138310088
There are mental systems used for finding prey, but also used to communicate with others. Conveying emotion, but also states of mind, on prey, of nature and lots of other things can come together in a flux of these many systems designated for specific purposes, but together they create a strange symbiosis of natural systems that without purpose or without reason create neuron firings that are pleasurable to us.

Simply put, there are two islands, and there is a shallow channel in between through which sometimes you may walk, sometimes you use a boat. Sometimes enough stuff dredges up together and creates a tiny island in between (like military marches that promote unit cohesion, increase the chance of surviving and thriving as a military unit)

but for the modern age, look at pic related. Something entirely weird and strange may arise out of music, if society was not so volatile and prone to crashing all the time in the longer term.

>>138310088
>if rock evolved from blues then why is there still blues?

>>138310088
>Music doesn't naturally occur
brainlet detected

What are whales, and birds?

>>138310088
Evolution isn't worth arguing with.
People who think Darwin invented the theory of evolution support evolution, which proves it's not worth arguing with them because they know fuck all, yet think they do.
But shhhh!.... you're not allowed to talk about the several other cranks who rolled out this ancient theory before Darwin but in Darwins lifetime. It's racist or something. Darwin'O'phobic.
Anyway brain fart on, worshipping your monkey-Jesus who married his cousin, was an elite plutocrat and an phillosophic plagiarist
Evolution=scientifically impossible. The exact opposite of the processes we observe in science.
God=scientifically possible
That's why people have always believed in God. People have always been clever, until MSM.

>>138330811
You are just mad that evolution proves your inferiority, mr hideflag.

File: 1502725851276.png (540KB, 495x571px) Image search: [Google]

540KB, 495x571px

>>138312120
>the myriads of entire groups and tribes of people came to a consensus
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/not-bad-science/how-do-bonobos-and-chimpanzees-talk-to-one-another/

If they can gesture, I believe such a task is achievable.

File: 1345227318656.png (135KB, 364x336px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 364x336px

>>138323451
>be a nazi
>don't believe in evolution
This level of LARPing shouldn't be even possible.

>>138313125
You're whole argument is "language is irreducibly complex" which is bullshit because children can communicate with each other with basic words.

>>138330811
Darwin gave solid evidence though.

There's a difference between smoking some weed and saying how you think the universe works, and providing solid evidence that supports your claim.

>>138310088
This is the best I can do in terms of speculation:

We actually do have some kind of evolved rhythmic sense which is there for time-keeping and or coordination of movement; walking etc.

Language is to some extent based on tones and patterns. We definitely have an evolved drive to construct patterns and to iteratively improve on our own behavior.

These factors together eventually evolved into music by means of socially transferred memes.

(Believing that all behavior is determined by genes is the domain of low iq nazis.)