>Sex refers to biological constructs such as reproductive

Yet people who are the wrong gender often get sex reassign surgery, which, you know, affects their reproductive organs.

Though it doesn't actually change their sex or gender. Just makes them cripples. I feel sorry for them. We need to stop liberals from convincing children to mutilate their genitals.

>>138121646
>Gender refers to the social standards surrounding one's sex.
It's called sexual orientation, and has nothing to do with standards aside from the fact that anyone who needs to specify their orientation has none.

>>138121646
Off yourself. People are fed up with your gayass pronouns and wishes.

then why is it necessary to change ones body if your personality is like an effeminate girly man

if changing your gender is as easy as saying, "im this now" then why change it in the first place?
Im not going to treat you different now that youre a different gender. you're still you, the person I know and treat and interact with a certain way.
if you start acting all different now then I was never friends with the real you in the first place, and I may like or dislike you according to how you act, like anyone else.

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>>138122061
>then why change it in the first place?
Because it's cute...?

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>>138121646
But that;s just wrong

>>138121646
>gender and sex are different
Nope, sage

>>138122349
>can't even construct a single argument

That state of /pol/, everyone.

>>138122184

"Im a girl on monday and a guy on tuesday"

so? youre YOU. Im not going to treat YOU any differently.

so then WHY "change" at all? unless you're not you and legitimately have multiple personality disorder

and surgery is rather disturbing, are you not confident enough in your personality that you need to change your body?
plenty of people have bodies they dont like.
you think ugly people have a choice?

>>138122490
>>>/lgbt/

>>138122490
>Fails to respond to any other post
Your shit bait is cringe worthy mate.
Just fucking neck yourself

>>138121646
reminder to sage bait

if someone changes gender in order to be treated differently...arent they acknowledging that men and women are different?

I thought everyone was equal! so...trans are both sexist and homophobic.

>>138121646
There shouldn't be a difference. If there is a difference, then the concept of gender shouldn't exist because it's pointless and only serves to destroy western society and it's values by blurring the line between men and women. Traditional gender rolls are not a simple construct either, they developed naturally because women are naturally better at certain things, while men are naturally better at others. You only get a dysfunctional society when you pretend that a man pretending to be a woman can do everything an actual woman can do equally, and vice versa.

>>138121646

>claiming that effeminate men aren't men at all and are actually women

Too extreme for me desu, just make fun of them

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>you will never body swap

>>138121646
>sex: a self evident fact of life that can be clearly observed
>gender: a term made up by a jew in an attempt to make his experiment seem more legit but the experiment still failed
one is real, the other isnt even verifiable.

The issue is if we should accept more than one gender roles. Historically there have been 2 and maybe its for the best

Sociologist here. Sociology is a somewhat useful field when it comes to business management and small scale organizations but when it tries to analyze things like cultures and societies at large, and especially "gender" it inevitably gets infiltrated and appropriated by Marxists/Conflict Theory faggots. Feminist theory is for fags and gender studies doubly so. Leave that shit up to Anthropologists.

Also OP is a faggot.

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>>138124241
>maybe its for the best
The gender binary is pernicious and damaging to society.

>>138123908
Does this look like a man to you? No? Then it's a women.

It's really funny how people who support the gender binary but then disagree with what I just said above.

>>138124884
How? Also how would you know you are another gender if you have literally never been anything but yourself?

>>138121646
Bait. Sex and gender are the same and can be used interchangeably.

>>138124884
>Does this look like a man to you? No? Then it's a women.
You're saying that as if she is a woman just because she looks like a woman, which doesn't apply because that's Anzu Jammu, who is actually a woman.

>>138121646
Gender refers to how a noun or adjective is declined. The social standards surrounding one's sex are called sex roles.

>>138121646
idgaf vaginas feel better than assholes any day of the week and i don't like man ass

In order for gender to be socially constructed, your identity has to be agreed upon by a mass group of people who are involved in the social game. If you're a born as a man and see yourself as a woman, you're not a woman if people still see you as a man. You can try to force others to see you as what you see yourself as, and they might play along with you to accommodate your feelings, but they're lying to you. You instinctively know you're lying to yourself, and you know they're lying to themselves out of sympathy for you. You're biologically a male, you know it, everyone knows it. It's beneficial for everyone involved in a social game to be realistic about about what they know is true instead of denying it for feelings.

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Anzu is built for sex

>>138124884
Having generally everyone follow two gender roles isn't damaging to society

>>138121646
Gender is a literary device for assigning pronouns to objects to simplify sentances. By adding more, or attempting to change one's own gender, you are literally doing the opposite of what pronouns are for.

>>138121646
Wtf her eyeballs tho

>>138121646
There is only one set of efficient standards so the distinction is irrelevant, anything drastically outside those standards is a worthless waste of time. its like saying there is a difference between spelling and grammar, and that you can just make up your own grammar as long everything is spelt correctly.

>>138122184
You're aware that girl is an actual girl, right?

Here's her YT channel, and she's addressed directly her sex multiple times because of this shitty meme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz1Pd43qvUs

>>138121646

Fine. I'm heterosexual, not hetrogenderal so I'm still not going to fuck you no matter how many times you call me a bigot.

>>138124884
>>138125599
>>138125949

gender based on sex makes sense, it's biology, chromosomes, roles and inclinations designed or evolved to fulfill functions related to procreation

gender based on imagination is random nonsense.

there is no such thing as gender, only sex and sexual orientation. if you want to be crossdressing faggot thats fine, but i'm not going to call you a straight woman. fuck off gender larpers

>>138125524
Not really, but you're entitled to your wrong opinion.

>>138123950
hormone replacement gets you kinda close

after a year on it people have started addressing me as female even in boy clothes, plus it makes you smell like a girl

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Gender was invented by a pedophile psychologist late into modernity.

>>138126098
>nothing as hot as the smell of shit when you're banging that hole

I think I'll just stick with my "wrong opinion".

Society arises from primarily biology and the surrounding environment. So regardless of the semantics game you play, biological truths define the male and female human.

>>138121646
Why do faggots have such a hard problem understanding that gender is caused primarily by biology?

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>>138121646
>Sociology

>>138121646
Congrats, still doesn't make it any less of a public health hazard. You faggots are still spreading diseases more than any other group.

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>AND THE SERPENT SAID TO THE WOMAN; "YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE?"
(Genesis 3:4)

>>138126429
Why do faggots have such a hard problem understanding that gender is caused entirely by biology?*

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>>138126235
It's the story that goes along with it that makes it nice.

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>>138124884
>The gender binary is pernicious and damaging to society.

How so? We haven't had an issues with it up until now. We've had thousands of years of success in every field, and yet only in the past 40-50 years has this suddenly become 'damaging to society'. How is the breakdown of gender roles and the traditional family damaging to society?

Also, doesn't biological sex trump the societal norms surrounding sex? The societal norms are mostly determined by those biological affects. Men are - on average - bigger, stronger, and more aggressive. Therefore men do jobs that demand those traits. If you were to have a woman decide to be a man, she wouldn't be as big or as strong as an average man, so it's unlikely she'd be able to do all the things she should be able to do when fulfilling the role as a man, such as fighting, or performing demanding physical labor. Also, you may choose to define yourself as a man, but you do not produce sperm, nor do you actually have a male set of genitalia, you just have a franken-weenie that grows hair on the tip.

Society is determined by biology, not the other way around. Biological sex will always be the ultimate decider, regardless of what your brain believes you to be. You may grow your hair out, put on a dress, get fake breasts, and turn your genitals inside out, but guess what? Every single one of the 40 trillion cells in your body has Y chromosomes.

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How can slimy, rapacious sarlaccs even compete...??

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>>138126633
Aaaaand then the Myspace angles stop IRL and testosterone continues to hit them like the unstoppable truck it is. Every semi-successful trannie becomes completely unpassable by age 35. Many such cases.

Have a bio woman pic, though, for your troubles.

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>>138121646
Because I'm not retarded?

>>138121646
as an atheist, I believe the libs have gone insane and are no longer rational. what is the diference between believing in a sky daddy or believing that people can change their sex.

>>138126945
there are pills to completely kill your testosterone to female levels you know
you're right about the tranny-angled photos though

>>138124884
There are only two genders, get over it. Anything else is attention whoring and should be treated as such.

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How can /pol/lution reconcile the arrant hypocrisy of their catatonic misogyny, and hollow-headed worship of the what has cûck their pea-brains for centuries -- THE VIRGINA JEW?

>cognitive dissonance

>>138126673
agp

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>>138127147
No, it cannot reach female levels. You are very uneducated if you think this, simply. Further, you can never get the estrogen flowing like a woman's.
Simply, you can never truly match a woman's chemistry, and vice versa.

Again, many such cases.
Sad!

>>138121646
Because liking pink pygmi horses as a boy or not liking to wear dresses as a girl doesn't make you an attack helicopter, it makes you an individual.
Gender politics seek to remove individualism.

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>>138126945
>unpassable by 35

Kissless, touchless, never-travelled, basement dwelling, uneducated, NEET forever-virgin:
>D E T E C T E D

>>138127357
you definitely, definitely can match a female's level of testosterone
for some reason I'm guessing you haven't read much about hormones
estrogen shots give peaks and troughs in levels of estradiol similar to a natal female's menstrual cycle

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>>138127739
Hahaha, whatever you say.

I understand you're trying to compensate with your shitty life by trying your hardest to convince yourself of the 'trap' fantasy, but trust me: You should run out of your own smoke cloud before you end up more depressed than you already are.

Gender is the influenced by sex.

>>138121646
>Sociology
>Relevant to anything

>>138127357
Someone doesn't know much about hormone replacement therapy.

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>>138127357
>never reach sarlacc levels
>muh "I got my Ph.D in biology from Trump University for Melanin Dictates Degeneracy (summa cum lumpen)

Mama always said, if ya ain't gat nuthin' intellegent-like to say, go back to Call of Duty / Bestgore.com fapping.

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>>138128021
>non argument ad homos
>post sarlaccs with 3-pac face kabuki masks and behind Vaseline lenses

Go home and be a family cûck, born-to-loser.

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>>138128374
>>138128368

Ah, OK, supposedly you can actually kill your testosterone levels. But it still doesn't work, y'know, for actually looking not like a man.

That's why they all opt for facial feminization surgery and eventually get boob jobs because their gynecostia 'estrogen-created' boobs look mutilated.

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>>138128886
idk it just gives you puffy conetits like pic related

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>>138121646
Sex refers to the biological form you were born with, genitalia, etc.

Gender refers to the sexual identity you are compelled to be.

There is a physiological root to both that supersedes socialisation. A male is born with a masculine mindset, and vice versa. Gender is the masculine/feminine behavioural characteristics.

/pol/ doesn't understand that some people are born with a gender behavioural state that contradicts their sex. Some males are born with more feminine or masculine characteristics than the medium, as some women are born with more masculine or feminine characteristics.

The issue is how we deal with these people. Since there is a physiological root to this behaviour (as it is documented in all societies in history at all points), we need to figure out whether these people can be cured. Do we cull them? Or tolerate them as long as they are not openly degenerate? It's a difficult issue

Saying that though, instances of transexualism does rise during the hedonistic part of a civilisation. I wonder if this is because the peak of luxury for a society lets people do what they feel compelled to do more easily, or if it has a social dynamic that is comes from fetishism and more sexual hedonism. A mixture of both probably.

>>138128886
Gender dysphoria is the second most lethal mental illness after manic depression. And it didn't exist at a relevant statistical level until we allowed kids to be medicated by liberal-minded school psychiathrists.

You will never be a little girl, and you'll kill yourself because your parents allowed a pedophile to poison your brain.

>>138122490
No argument was made to counter it.
>Hey if I define my words this way you can't argue!
>>>/lgbt/

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Why do Turks look like asians.

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>>138129406

>(((sociology)))

>>138121646
gender refers to the written expression of sex (male, female) but not being called sex, since you need to express objects too (neutral), and some subjects are unknown.
>For example, respectively: Boy, Girl, Rock, Friend

sayge

>>138121646
>its literally basic sociopathy
fixed that for you

>>138129614
Gender doesn't exist. It's literally make believe. Transgenderism, poorly named, is when a person physically feels like their BODY is incorrect, which is why they so frequently kill themselves. It has nothing to do with mentality or personality or masculinity or femininity. Which is one reason why trannies believe so laughably; an MTF has no idea how a girl actually thinks, so he instead affects a ridiculous stereotype. FTM on the other hand are usually easier to deal with, as the female perception of how a man is or should be actually makes them behave better.

>Saying that though, instances of transexualism does rise during the hedonistic part of a civilization.
Literally 90% of modern "transgendered" people are actually completely normal, physiologically speaking anyway

>>138126633
got the names of the traps?

>>138130421
Of course its just an idea but its rooted deep in human history where every single culture plays the two gender roles. Ideas that work good for humanity are generally good to keep.

>>138129846
they get bioidentical hormones you dummy
you'll grow breast tissue almost always unless you're old

trannies can even lactate after enough time

>>138130842
Not two gender roles, two sex roles. Up until literally less than 50 years ago, Sex defined your role. As it should be.

>>muh freedomz
>>I will determine other people's gender

pick one

>>138129803
Because Turkic tribes make up a large swath of Asia and probably raped a bunch of Chinese people. (Turkmenistan anyone?)

>>138131116
Gender Is Not Real

>>138129803
Because the mongols conquered it.

>>138130963
Keep telling yourself that there's no difference between the sexes but these simple few quick fixes. It'll only end in further depression.

>>138121646
>sociology
now let's have a REAL science:
>XX=she
>XY=he
>some other combination=it
why it's so hard for mentally ill to understand?

>>138130421
>Gender doesn't exist. It's literally make believe
gender is informed by sex, it's why men act with masculine characteristics. It is no stretch to assume correctly that a man can be born with a "feminine" brain, as can we very easily observed. There is evidence, for example, that the brains of homosexual men are quite clearly and observably constructed similar to a woman's brain. The Hjernevask episode on gayness is good.

>is when a person physically feels like their BODY is incorrect, which is why they so frequently kill themselves
The body fails to meet the standards that they want, thus they kill themselves. The fact MTF people are so emotionally unstable and sensitive is similar to how a woman acts.

>so he instead affects a ridiculous stereotype
I think you'd find very often "true" people with this disorder act feminine and have flamboyant characteristics from an early age pre puberty. I think the inclination to operate as a stereotype is to over compensate for their gender confusion, in order to fulfil the gender role they are compelled to operate as, they go as extreme as possible, becoming very submissive sexually and romantically and acting incredibly feminine.

If you accept that males are programmed to act masculine and fulfil a masculine role in society, then you also need to accept that some males would be born broken and have more feminine characteristics.

>>138121646
Really? Prove it.

>>138131536
there are big differences, but you'd probably be amazed at how much of an impact our hormones have on this

its way beyond just physical appearance
thoughts, mood, sexual attraction, even brain size all changes with hormones

>>138125784
Yep

>>138132473
Well, I tried to save you, but some people just want to die in a basement jacking it to anime trannies.

>>138131715
>gender is informed by sex, it's why men act with masculine characteristics.
Personality is affected by sex. Gender isn't real. Naturally there are personality characteristics that are sexually dimorphic because of this, but individual variations which cross over an arbitrary middle line do not constitute "having the brain of the opposite sex". For example, you would not say that a man who is 5'6" is "female height", you would just call him a subhuman manlet. Likewise, a guy with one or more personality traits more commonly associated with a woman is not "female brained", but just a bitch.
But more importantly Personality has nothing to do with clinical gender dysphoria, they key symptom of which is physical disgust and rejection of their body and sexual development, not any kind of psychological phenomena.
>The body fails to meet the standards that they want, thus they kill themselves.
In many cases it's not just "not meeting the standards", but a sense of dread and disgust. More than just body dysmorphia seen in some body builders, there's just something inherently wrong with the peripheral nervous system. Case in point, HRT can greatly relieve these symptoms even if their body doesn't greatly change or get surgery, and also surgery doesn't actually improve symptoms or prognosis. If it were purely psychological, surgery would help, but statistically those that get surgery are just as likely to kill themselves as those that get HRT alone.
>The fact MTF people are so emotionally unstable and sensitive is similar to how a woman acts.
heh. I mean, it actually does make sense, but FTM don't act like men at all, so I lean more towards "having a neurological defect causes people to behave less rationally"
>I think you'd find very often "true" people with this disorder act feminine and have flamboyant characteristics from an early age pre puberty.
You'd be wrong, it doesn't manifest until puberty

>>138131715
>If you accept that males are programmed to act masculine and fulfil a masculine role in society, then you also need to accept that some males would be born broken and have more feminine characteristics.
Males are expected to do male roles because they are the ones physically capable of doing so. Same with women. How they feel about it is irrelevant to this face.

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>>138121646

less than 1 percent of 1 percent of the population is trans, yet leftist trash will chastise you like a piece of shit if you dont understand their weird multiple personality shit and strange leaps in logic
someone born a man but a woman on the inside "has been a woman their entire life"
but someone who changes their gender weekly or even daily somehow ISNT choosing their gender?

so you can simultaneously CHOOSE YOUR GENDER and simultaneously YOU CANT CHOOSE YOUR GENDER YOU WERE BORN A X IN A Ys BODY

fucking insane leftist echo chamber virtue signalling pandering brainwashed communists...they simply agree on whatever makes them feel "morally superior"

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>>138132949
>Well, I tried to save you, but some people just want to die in a basement jacking it to anime trannies.

Damn straight.

>>138133756
That's not a male. That's a biological female. I'm sorry that you fell for the meme and that this whole time you've been accidentally straight for her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz1Pd43qvUs

On top of her explicitly clarifying multiple times, simply watch her for a moment and even you would admit a tranny could never pass that well.

>>138129803
Turks are what happen when Mongols rape Greeks and then convert to Islam.

>>138127103
This!
Delusional idiocy on both sides of the fence..

>>138133088
>Personality is affected by sex. Gender isn't real.
Those personality traits that fall into the category of being influenced by sex is gender.
>but individual variations which cross over an arbitrary middle line do not constitute "having the brain of the opposite sex".
I don't mean just individual variations, but an entire character of being. Sexual orientation, ways of operating, a male born with more behavioural characteristics that are tied a feminine role is pretty clearly more like a woman than a man.
>For example, you would not say that a man who is 5'6" is "female height", you would just call him a subhuman manlet
That isn't a good example. Body height might create a napoleon complex, but doesn't inform gender identity at all. If someone is inclined to be attracted to tall males, and be a guy at the same time, that is a female characteristic trait. Enough of these traits, they're probably more female than male psychologically.
>But more importantly Personality has nothing to do with clinical gender dysphoria, they key symptom of which is physical disgust and rejection of their body and sexual development, not any kind of psychological phenomena.
I think you are misunderstanding this illness, it's not just rejecting the body, it's also feeling compelled to be the opposite gender at the same time. That plays a key role in the rejection process. Of course the causes probably vary wildly, but more often than not, they likely feel they suit the feminine role more better than the masculine role.

This varies on a case by case basis, but the issue of identity supersedes the distress they experience in their body which they find uncomfortable. The key symptom is the fact that a man feels like a woman, plus being disgusted by their body.

continued-

>>138121646
So why is gender important? Can't we just refer to people by their sex?

>>138122608
This is also why I can't stand women who get breast implants. They look gross and unnatural.

>>138121646
Political Correctness is a tool of Communists.

>>138134007
Don't waste your words, fetishists thrive on fantasy.
He needs to believe a woman is actually a boy pretending to be a woman because he's a mysogynistic heterosexual transvestophile.

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>>138122184
This is now an Anzu thread

>>138121646
>Gender
Reminder that the concept of "gender" was created by a jewish pedophile who fed hormones to a baby who had his dick chopped off by "accident" by a Rabbi during circumcision, and then forced him and his brother to fuck each other while he took pictures.

They both killed themselves, one with antidepressants and the other with a shotgun to the head. And thus the "transgender" meme was born.

>>138135289
It has nothing to do with communism. Zizek is a famous communist who is against political correctness.

>>138135108
We can't have people believing in virtues so we have them wrap their identity around meaningless bullshit.

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>>138121646
> it's literally basic sociology
> basic sociology
> sociology

No one with a brain gives a fuck about irrelevant meme degrees which they set up for people who were too stupid to do a science. Stop talking about this like it's a real thing. It's not. You're trash. Your identity politics are trash. If you think that you deserve to have a special little pet name for your feminine penis and get angry when people don't play along with your little attention seeking game, the only thing that you actually deserve is a boot on your throat as a bullet goes through your hopelessly broken and brainwashed mind.

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>>138135591
Then why are communist college educators proponents of political correctness?

>>138133088
>If it were purely psychological, surgery would help, but statistically those that get surgery are just as likely to kill themselves as those that get HRT alone.
I used to believe suicide rates were constant or got worse post surgery or hrt, but it turns out it's simply not true, depression greatly diminishes post any kind of intervention.

But as I said before, gender dysphoria has multiple key symptoms, one of them being feeling like the opposite sex, not just disgust. There's pretty clearly a psychological element to this illness.

>but FTM don't act like men at all, so I lean more towards "having a neurological defect causes people to behave less rationally"
Dykes beat each other, domestic violence is really high in lesbian households. In my opinion, lesbians are more masculine and tend to be more violent.

>You'd be wrong, it doesn't manifest until puberty
Growing up, the gay kid always turned out to be gay. That's what I've found at least.

>Males are expected to do male roles because they are the ones physically capable of doing so. Same with women. How they feel about it is irrelevant to this face.
Goodness no, males aren't expected to be something thus are, they are something. Males have a protective mentality that is distinct from females, testosterone levels alone greatly affect how people act.

Any kind of socialisation process in the development of a personality is minimal.

>>138123406
I think the term gender was first created because different cultural groups have different ideas of what a good man or woman is, not sure though

>>138121646
>>138122184
>>138124884
>>138125599
>>138133756
>>138135366

How does one get an anzu gf?

>>138136378
>Be well off
>Have loads of free time
>Pay for her cosplaying/modeling hobby
>Be supportive and involved
I'm friends with the photographer-boyfriends of a couple e-celeb models and it's pretty much this. Yes one of them is a babe himself, but the other is a dumpy asian with a beer belly and his gf is still surgically attached to his dick.

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>>138136378
Cloning her honestly. Her genes should be preserved for future generations to procreate with her. She is perfection defined.

>>138121646
remember to sage, report and hide every thread with a picture of anzu

>>138136867
>be supportive and involved
does this mean I have to watch anime and possibly do cosplay myself?

>>138135012
>Those personality traits that fall into the category of being influenced by sex is gender.
Nearly all personality traits are to some degree affected by sex, but to enormously varying degrees and ultimately not very large differences in the means. As such, a distinction isn't particularly useful, especially when the physical and molecular mechanisms of personality aren't understood basically at all.
>I don't mean just individual variations, but an entire character of being.
Well what you're describing just isn't real. There aren't men born with fully typical female personalities.
>That isn't a good example. Body height might create a napoleon complex, but doesn't inform gender identity at all.
Gender isn't fucking real. Transgenderism is about the body, not how you think of yourself. Everything else is just make believe nonsense.
>I think you are misunderstanding this illness, it's not just rejecting the body,
Yes it is. Psychologists have intentionally conflated gender dysphoria with autogynophelia and garden variety faggotry because they are insidious kikes who wish to undermine society and can make a useful tool out of the disease. What societal role you think you should feel, what your hopes and dreams are, none of this has anything to do with clinical gender dysphoria. It's just an aspect of who you are, not what you are.

Is there any porn of Anzu? I want to at least pretend I'm fucking her.

>>138136048
>I used to believe suicide rates were constant or got worse post surgery or hrt,but it turns out it's simply not true, depression greatly diminishes post any kind of intervention.
HRT helps enormously but SRS does not.
>one of them being feeling like the opposite sex, not just disgust.
They literally cannot ever know what that would be like.
>Dykes beat each other, domestic violence is really high in lesbian households. In my opinion, lesbians are more masculine and tend to be more violent.
This is actually just because domestic violence against men is relatively under reported due to pussy pass, but pussy pass doesn't apply in a lesbian relationship.
>Growing up, the gay kid always turned out to be gay. That's what I've found at least.
I'm talking about gender dysphoria, not just people being gay. They are two extremely distinct phenomena.
>Any kind of socialisation process in the development of a personality is minimal.
Absolutely incorrect. There's a reason political views are like 95% heritable, and that's that children are incredibly malleable. Which is why the leftists try so hard to control public schooling

>>138137401
Asian guy doesn't cosplay but he does go to conventions with his gf. And not only modeling stuff, he took her to EVO despite never having touched a fighting game himself before, for example.

You don't get to have a woman who actually has a personality and interests of her own without interacting with said interests yourself. And lets be real as cute as she is, Anzu wouldn't be half as attractive if it wasn't for her weaboo kawaii vlogging

>>138137481
I think a big issue here is the fact we perceive the development of character very differently. Personality and behaviour is understood, its testosterone, estrogen, chemicals during development and literal and observable differences in brain structure. We may not understand a lot of the fine parts of the neurological process, but the fact is nature trumps nurture in 90% of development. At this point I am personally confused by what you're trying to argue, are you saying "male roles" in society is socialised? That humans are born blank? Or that there is a physiological nature to behaviour, but gender and notions of masculine/feminine behaviour is socially constructed?

Maybe I should stress just how much it is a spectrum, all things are a spectrum, it's not white or black. I'm not saying a man is born with a woman brain, but a man can be born with more feminine characteristics, characteristics more often found in biological females.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaTc15plVs

>because they are insidious kikes who wish to undermine society and can make a useful tool out of the disease.
No offence but I have trouble accepting conspiracies like this, you may be correct, but we're currently dealing with whether some men can be born with feminine characteristics, not whether psychologists invented dysphoria because they want to rule the world.

>HRT helps enormously but SRS does not.
SRS doesn't necessarily help it more so, in fact, if dysphoria derives from disgust of the body, then you'd think SRS would help more so, but it doesn't. Studies show depression and suicide drop significantly post any kind of intervention, so it's not just whether you have a vagina or a penis, or a masculine or feminine body, dyspohria seems to be more related to contentedness with other issues, not just disgust of the body.

continued

>>138137946
>They literally cannot ever know what that would be like.
What makes you say this? They feel feminine, thus they probably are more feminine physiologically. Simply enough really.

>This is actually just because domestic violence against men is relatively under reported due to pussy pass, but pussy pass doesn't apply in a lesbian relationship.
It is under reported, though female abuse is more emotional in nature, not physical. Lesbians literally beat eachother, domestic violence. And male on female abuse is very high, much higher than female on male.

>I'm talking about gender dysphoria, not just people being gay. They are two extremely distinct phenomena.
I think homosexuality and gender are very much interconnected, since sex informs identity and personality, and sexual orientation plays a very big role in that.

>Absolutely incorrect. There's a reason political views are like 95% heritable, and that's that children are incredibly malleable. Which is why the leftists try so hard to control public schooling
Oof, looks like this is a big problem we have, we view things very very differently. Political views are heritable, but not a defining characteristic. Yea, a Conservative family will raise Conservatives, but a high IQ family can't raise an adopted child doomed to being low IQ due to genetics.

https://youtu.be/97dBxYGGUGk?t=948

Watch this friend, trust me, it's worth it. Also this documentary was accused of being reactionary by leftists, so don't worry, it's not Jewish.

>>138139208
>Personality and behaviour is understood, its testosterone, estrogen, chemicals during development
These are untestable hypotheses.
>and observable differences in brain structure
Only one part of the brain has been demonstrated to be inversely sexually dimorphic in transgendered people before HRT. Curiously, HRT "flips" a few more parts.
>are you saying "male roles" in society is socialized?
Yeah, for the most part. Now, obviously they were designed (or perhaps more accurately, evolved) with the biologically rooted differences between the sexes in mind. But for example, raised in isolation, a man will not put himself in danger to protect a woman he does not know.
>Maybe I should stress just how much it is a spectrum
WHAT is a spectrum? Gender? GENDER IS NOT REAL. It's a fabrication, a set of labels for an infinite number of personalities. The only thing that's real and definite is biological sex, as determined by whether or not the SRY gene is expressed.
>No offence but I have trouble accepting conspiracies like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
All real doctors hate psychologists. Their field is a fucking joke and they are self important shitheads. Psychiatrists and neurologists are the only ones making meaningful progress in the field of mental disorders.
>but we're currently dealing with whether some men can be born with feminine characteristics
Of course they can, that doesn't make them female gendered, it makes them atypical men.
>not whether psychologists invented dysphoria because they want to rule the world.
Gender dysphoria is real, but it has nothing to do with personality or "identity"

>>138139208
>SRS doesn't necessarily help it more so, in fact, if dysphoria derives from disgust of the body, then you'd think SRS would help more so, but it doesn't.
It's not a rational disgust, but some sort of neurological defect, akin to phantom limb syndrome. Ironically the failing of SRS may be due to the fact that it seeks to leave as much of the original innervation of the tissue intact as possible
>Studies show depression and suicide drop significantly post any kind of intervention
HRT has been demonstrated to help, SRS does not.

They have changed the rules so one is, in some settings, not even allowed to use words as OP did. This is intentional. Destroy the language, make it impossible to express and hard to think certain ideas.

But keep using the language anyway. With Trump in, it should be OK. With Hillary in it would be scary.

>>138140093
>What makes you say this? They feel feminine
They are literally incapable of even beginning to guess what "feeling feminine" is like.
>It is under reported, though female abuse is more emotional in nature, not physical
Nope, physical abuse of females on men is exceptionally common
>I think homosexuality and gender are very much interconnected
Well you're fucking wrong, since there are a hundred times as many gays as trannies
>Oof, looks like this is a big problem we have, we view things very very differently. Political views are heritable, but not a defining characteristic.
Politics are an expression of ideals, and at their root are defined by how a person defines themselves, how they would like to be, and what they want to achieve. Comparing personality to IQ is disingenuous. Children's preferences in foods can be affected by what their mothers eat while pregnant, but you think a child's personality isn't affected by their experiences, especially their formative ones?

i dig it jus fine, fagolah. it's just that in our society, "sex" determines "gender".
why is that so difficult for fagits to comprend?

>>138121646
I want you to explain to me who came up with this theory and what evidence they brought to support it. I already know the answer but I think itd be healthy if you did a bit of research on it and saw for yourself

>>138121646

You know, after all these years on this fucking succubus of a site. I still can't figure out if this cunt is male or female. At this point I don't even care anymore. I'd pound it and feel bad about it later.

>>138135470
fucking LOL man. i so dearly hope thats all true.

>>138140543
>These are untestable hypotheses.
I don't mean to offend you, but I am dumbfounded when I come across someone that choose nurture over nature every time, especially seeing as how you're on /pol/ and probably conservative. Usually people here will agree in prior inequality, IQ being genetic, innate differences in the sexes, etc etc. I linked Hjernavask twice, it's a brilliant documentary series that sums up everything very well and does a better job than what I can.
>Only one part of the brain has been demonstrated to be inversely sexually dimorphic in transgendered people before HRT. Curiously, HRT "flips" a few more parts.
Nooo not true at all, the part of the brain that determines sexual orientation is physically and observably different. Homosexual males have female structure at this part of the brain, it's different to heterosexual males.
>Yeah, for the most part. Now, obviously they were designed (or perhaps more accurately, evolved) with the biologically rooted differences between the sexes in mind.
It certainly is not socialised. Granted I could probably give you that it is reinforced by society, and societies have different standards, but those roles are utterly derived from physiology and how we evolved. We have expectations as a society for how people should act, but naturally speaking, these expectations derive from nature essentially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mYeZ9by-eM

>WHAT is a spectrum? Gender? GENDER IS NOT REAL.
gender is the linguistic expression of differentiating male and female behaviour. You act like a man because you're a male, that's your gender, you're a man. It is a spectrum insofar as some men act more manly than other men due to their physiology.

>Psychiatrists and neurologists are the only ones making meaningful progress in the field of mental disorders.
Funnily enough, it is neurologists who agree with me. Steven Pinker is a neurologist.

>>138121646
silly anon
GENDER does not exist

>>138121646
To deny that they're linked is moronic.

Why can't you make up your own words too attach your nonsense so normal people don't have to deal with a small groups koolade that isn't my flavor of crazy bullshit

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>>138121811
>>138121911
noice digits

>>138140543
>Of course they can, that doesn't make them female gendered, it makes them atypical men.
tomatoes tomatoes. They are atypical males, they are feminine males, they are feminine men, to me it is undeniable: they are feminine by nature. At some point we have to realise they are pretty clearly womanlike in nature, enough female characteristics and in what way are they distinguishable to an actual woman insofar as how they feel.

>Gender dysphoria is real, but it has nothing to do with personality or "identity"
well I think it has a lot to do with identity, as the source of rejection derives from envy and feeling uncomfortable.

>>138121646
>Gender refers to the social standards surrounding one's sex.
That is so regressive. Women can do anything men can do nowadays without becoming men, men can stay at home taking care of kids too and they don't become women for it. By being a trans person, you're reinforcing outdated gender standards, you bigot.

>>138135926
Communism is about who controls capital. Anything else is up for debate.

>>138121646
because they literally just forcefully changed all the definition on all online dictionaries 10 years ago
i have multiple dictionaries that list gender and sex as the same thing
you can also just use the waybackmachine to check it yourself

>>138141411
Came here to post this. Thanks dude.

>>138141141
>They are literally incapable of even beginning to guess what "feeling feminine" is like.
Well they're not trying to guess, they feel feminine, their nature is feminine. It's like a rock feeling what being a rock is like, it's a rock by it's nature.

>Nope, physical abuse of females on men is exceptionally common
Not really, and certainly not in the same ballpark. A slap, a scratch, maybe. Mental and emotional manipulation and abuse? probably very high, but generally speaking domestic violence is perpetrated by the stronger and dominating sex.

>Well you're fucking wrong, since there are a hundred times as many gays as trannies
Yet gay people act feminine, vast majority do. There was a study done where 80% of heterosexual males and females could identify someones sexual orientation just by their voice and body mannerisms alone.

>Politics are an expression of ideals, and at their root are defined by how a person defines themselves, how they would like to be, and what they want to achieve.
Not necessarily, it's also just how you were raised. I personally was raised in a left leaning household, my mum and dad were the equivalent to american liberals. I for one had to redpill them both. And I'm gay as well, my dad happens to also be very socially conservative in regards to sexual orientation, even telling me that gays ought to be shot when I was 11. Little did he know.

>but you think a child's personality isn't affected by their experiences, especially their formative ones?
Oh I'm not denying this, but you cannot change the physiological basis in which personality is built on. The brain can only be so malleable, you can't teach someone with 100 IQ to be a super genius, but he as a person can change and learn as far as he is capable.

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>>138121646
You don't get to redefine words to fit your delusions, faggot.

Why are the dictionary and established science so hard for YOU to understand?

BTFO!

sage

>>138141776
>I don't mean to offend you, but I am dumbfounded when I come across someone that choose nurture over nature every time
I don't every time. Clinical gender dysphoria itself is obviously rooted in some as of yet unelucidated genetic defect, probably related to PNS signaling. But that doesn't change the fact that personality and tendencies are to a very large degree determined by parental conditioning.
>Nooo not true at all, the part of the brain that determines sexual orientation
Has not been identified. Also sexual orientation and gender dysphoria are unrelated. Homos also have a flipped structure but not the same one.
>It certainly is not socialised. Granted I could probably give you that it is reinforced by society, and societies have different standards, but those roles are utterly derived from physiology and how we evolved. We have expectations as a society for how people should act, but naturally speaking, these expectations derive from nature essentially.
...So what you're saying is that it IS socialized, but the traditional gender roles are rooted in biological logic and necessity, which is precisely what I said.
>gender is the linguistic expression of differentiating male and female behaviour. You act like a man because you're a male, that's your gender, you're a man.
I act like a man because statistically that's how someone who is sexually male acts. You seem to be hung up on the idea that transgendered men actually think or act entirely like or even close to normal women or vice versa. It's just not true. The behavior they demonstrate is paper thin affectation.
>Funnily enough, it is neurologists who agree with me. Steven Pinker is a neurologist.
No, he's a psychologist and says so himself. Just being a hack with an MRI machine doesn't make him an actual scientist. A neurologist deals with nervous molecular biology, not prodding at brain lobes.

>>138142207
>tomatoes tomatoes. They are atypical males, they are feminine males, they are feminine men, to me it is undeniable: they are feminine by nature. At some point we have to realise they are pretty clearly womanlike in nature
But they aren't woman like. The best they can do is pretend, and when they do it's a nightmarish parody. A mask of fake personality and forced body language invokes comparison to a puppet pulled by strings. They aren't even close and their attempts to close the gap are a pointless exercise.
>well I think it has a lot to do with identity, as the source of rejection derives from envy and feeling uncomfortable.
What it has a lot to do with is your nerves screaming at you to tear your dick off because it's "wrong". Not because you "feel like a woman", because how the fuck would you even know?

gender does not exist and sociology is not a science faggot

>>138143055
>I don't every time
Sorry, I meant that I'm dumbfounded every time. My apologies.
>But that doesn't change the fact that personality and tendencies are to a very large degree determined by parental conditioning.
Have you watched anything I've linked? I recommend you do.
>Has not been identified. Also sexual orientation and gender dysphoria are unrelated. Homos also have a flipped structure but not the same one.
It has been, I recommend you watch the things I've been linking. I know I'm technically just moving my argument away to another source but I personally don't have the will to personally find every single article and study when the things I link do it for me.
>...So what you're saying is that it IS socialized, but the traditional gender roles are rooted in biological logic and necessity, which is precisely what I said.
No, I'm saying that the roles and expectations derive from biology, not that they are invented to fulfil expected utilitarian purposes. Males are expected to act masculine, because males are designed and programmed to be masculine, humans by our nature dislike deviation from expectations.
>I act like a man because statistically that's how someone who is sexually male acts
Well we agree there.
>You seem to be hung up on the idea that transgendered
I don't quite think this, I never believed that a majority of MTF actually "feel" like women, but what I originally argued in my original post was that there are males they deviate from masculine gender behaviour due to having feminine characteristics instead. You considered these males to be "atypical men", I agree, they exist, the question is what we do this these feminine atypical men.
>No, he's a psychologist and says so himself.
My bad, you're right. He's a neuroscientist, that's probably a better word. Nonetheless, the study of behaviour seems okay to me. I think you dislike Freudian tier psychology, a lot of it being wrong.

>>138142969
>Well they're not trying to guess, they feel feminine
They do not and literally would not know even if they did.
>Not really, and certainly not in the same ballpark. A slap, a scratch, maybe
Well yeah, men are just way the fuck stronger. But in a female/female relationship, the balance of power is much more even, so the abuse can be worse. I was just suggesting that it was a matter of circumstance and not that lesbians are inherently more prone to domestic violence at least in terms of frequency.
>probably very high, but generally speaking domestic violence is perpetrated by the stronger and dominating sex.
Male domestic violence is usually much worse but in terms of frequency it's about half and half
>Yet gay people act feminine, vast majority do
What? No, most gays are not flamboyant faggots. And those that are, are literally affecting it. Even the gay lisp is fake, under sedation their voice returns to normal.
>Not necessarily, it's also just how you were raised. I personally was raised in a left leaning household, my mum and dad were the equivalent to american liberals. I for one had to redpill them both. And I'm gay as well, my dad happens to also be very socially conservative in regards to sexual orientation, even telling me that gays ought to be shot when I was 11. Little did he know.
You are exceptionally uncommon in several different ways
>Oh I'm not denying this, but you cannot change the physiological basis in which personality is built on.
Which is basically entirely unknown. As is the degree of malleability, other then that it is quite high.

>>138121646
nobody fucking cares, shill
>the problem we have isn't what you think or think you are, it's that constant in your face shit (like this thread) over petty little things constantly, day in day out
>i don't hate you because you want to identify as a unicorn fairy that farts rainbow weasels and the pronoun you choose is hvxxbqtr
>i hate you because you make it seem like if i don't get it right your widdle feewings get hurt because you're brainwashed and words trigger you into certain emotions/actions
>i hate you because i don't fucking care about this, but if i don't call you by the proper pronoun of hvxxbqtr, somehow in your brainwashed mind i'm stripping you of civil rights and you gotta protest so you can go viral, ooh, a celeb, omg aren't you special
>no, if your civil rights are stripped, you won't be allowed to vote or eat with the rest of society
there's more, but i just wanted to vent, i don't really give a fuck
>instead of posting on /pol/, why don't you go back to using your white privilege to do something for some helpless, stupid, weak minority that can't do it for themselves because you've been programmed to feel guilty if you don't use your racial superiority, you bunch of pathetic racists
>better get back to it, because that guilt will eat you up
>fucking hurry, you pathetic pasty
wasting time on /pol/ instead of using your white privilege for yo house nigs cuz dey can't do nuffin without massas superior genes n sheet
>you should be ashamed being so self-centered and wasting your time on here instead of using your white privilege to help them out right now
>you're pathetic
>wasting your white privilege to shitpost
>minorities need you and you are abandoning them
>use your white privilege or suffer immense guilt of your self-proclaimed superiority

>>138121646
Shut up fag. If there's a problem with your gender identity not matching your born sex, then you are mentally ill, no if ands or buts.

>>138143484
>But they aren't woman like. The best they can do is pretend, and when they do it's a nightmarish parody. A mask of fake personality and forced body language invokes comparison to a puppet pulled by strings. They aren't even close and their attempts to close the gap are a pointless exercise.
Agreed, a lot of it is in vain. They might feel feminine, and act feminine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they make the quota of being a woman. When I mean womanlike, I mean their nature and behaviour.
>What it has a lot to do with is your nerves screaming at you to tear your dick off because it's "wrong". Not because you "feel like a woman", because how the fuck would you even know?
Because lots don't say they hate the dick, they are envious of women at the same time. I think the envy informs their rejection of their body, though I'm sure mentally are just mentally unstable.

That's the issue, and I think I can see where gender dysphoria can be an issue, it's easy to group people together incorrectly. Maybe you're correct, if you can help me find a better disorder for preferring to be the other gender and rejecting the default body at the same time, pls help.

>>138143993
>Have you watched anything I've linked? I recommend you do.
To be frank, pontificating psychologists make me so angry that my teeth hurt. But I like being angry so maybe later.
>I don't quite think this, I never believed that a majority of MTF actually "feel" like women, but what I originally argued in my original post was that there are males they deviate from masculine gender behaviour due to having feminine characteristics instead.
I find that a lot more agreeable. Got to go now

>>138121646
Gender has nothing to do with social standards, it has nothing to do with occupations, or fucking other shit.

Gender is a function of language used to refer to people and objects, it almost always corresponds Biological sex except when that is indeterminable or referring to groups of people.

>>138144039
>They do not and literally would not know even if they did.
Okay at this point it's more like "im right, no im right". It's hard to work around that.
>Well yeah, men are just way the fuck stronger.
Men are also inclined to be more violent, domestic violence is still more prevalent coming from males. It's the testosterone, guys are more violent and conflict orientated.
>But in a female/female relationship, the balance of power is much more even, so the abuse can be worse.
Why is it that lesbian relationships are more violent than the medium, while homosexual male relationships are not exceptional or any more violent than the medium? Case in point, dykes are more conflict orientated and get angrier easier.
>Male domestic violence is usually much worse but in terms of frequency it's about half and half
From what I understand, that's not correct. Since you say that it goes unreported, it's hard to prove you wrong because you're creating this vast but invisible issue.
>What? No, most gays are not flamboyant faggots. And those that are, are literally affecting it. Even the gay lisp is fake, under sedation their voice returns to normal.
I have heard theories that they develop this kind of feminine behaviour as a means of signalling to the other gays, but lesbians are often masculine esque dykes. The question is why they develop this behaviour, there's no justification beyond a physiological compelling feeling to naturally act so.

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>>138121646

>>138144497
>To be frank, pontificating psychologists make me so angry that my teeth hurt. But I like being angry so maybe later.
Well you can give it a shot if you'd like later, I personally need to go soon as we've been at this for maybe half n hour but the videos do an effective enough job in my stead.

Have a good one senpai

>>138121646
They mean the same thing. There's no reason for your definition of gender to exist. There is no real purpose to the distinction, other than it fits your quirky socio-political goals.

>>138145212
>They do not and literally would not know even if they did.
>Okay at this point it's more like "im right, no im right". It's hard to work around that.

This guy is trying to say that males are not females and females are not males. Suffering from this mental illness does not make it possible for a biological male to feel what a biological female, who gestated and grew from conception to adulthood as a 100% biological and social female, would feel like. They can NEVER know what it's like to go through that process and be the result of it because they went through a different process. It may "seem" like it's feminine, but just like the surgery, it is a crude and disgusting mockery of what they're trying to become.