Communism is inevitable

>>138111002
It's not that it "cant work" but concepts like free enterprise and private property are more appealing to me then a command economy with "collective" ownership

>>138111002
Religious idiots will only use their ancient fairy books to argue against communism, they only use emotional drivel to argue. Their intellectual inferiority is laughable and I almost pity them. Communism is based on science and there is no room for a wizard zombie.

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The ideals of communism in itself are fallacies.

Hi /leftypol/

Since you're here I have a question: What were your views before /leftypol/, and how did you find it?

>>138111002
eat a dick and die commie. see you on the battlefield.

>>138111002
because the leadership is inevitably filled with sycophants who lack actual administrative skills

and because eventually people will start exploiting the disconnect between working and getting payed.

and because people want to be free

and because it just mechanically leads to inferior economic outcomes for everyone, and people would rather have more wealth than less.

>>138111002
It revolves around the two concepts of liberty. I'm not going to go into detail, but if you want to know more, go read (((Isaiah Berlin)))s original work, it's pretty interesting. Anyway, communism needs the state to intercede in order for it to come about (or in other words it can't form naturally), contrasted with capitalism that emerges naturally. The problem with that is that it requires "positive liberty", however Berlin thought argued that the implementation of positive liberty (with the aim of creating a society) would always lead to tyranny.

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So is death, should I actively seek it out? on your behalf too, of course.

You should never be called upon to prove a negative. You make the statement that communism works YOU are the one who has to prove that statement.

How do you value the price of goods in a communist society?

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>>138111002

>>138111002

Under communism I'd have to get a job, a wife, and raise a family.

I don't want to because I'm a lazy neet.

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>>138111002

>>138111002
Commies are too stupid to see they are the useful idiots of globalist capitalists. The destruction of borders, and flooding the labor market with waves of immigrants is only going to make them richer while they hide behind their gated communities. Look at how the establishment is using all their power against us right now. Are you that stupid to think they are going to allow you to redistribute their wealth? After we're gone, you're next.

>>138111002
Commie chicks are fucking ugly.

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>>138111002

These communism jokes. Oh dear.
These topic are very funny. You made my day.

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Communisim is inevita

>>138111342
Private property exists under communism. You are thinking of privately owned capital.

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>>138111002

Down to Communism.

>>138111002
If communism works so well, give me an example of it doing so since its conception.

>>138112280
Thats a good question but you could ask the same about how its done now. Measuring how valuable your labour is also is a question that we need to answer.

>>138112732
Bullshit, there is only personal property under communism. It includes stuff like clothes and a toothbrush. Real estate was not private in the Soviet Union, for example. All the housing belonged to the government, people were just assigned places to live.

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>>138111002

some people exist to extract the most out of least amount of input.

>>138111587
>social science

>>138112908
Right now the value of goods is the equilibrium of the values assigned to them by those who own goods and by those who desire them.

>>138113072
(((Social Science)))

>>138112985
Real estate shouldn't be privately owned you greed kike. The reason Putin steals 200 billion from Russia is because of capitalism.

>>138111002
We have Mrs. History to do that "coming up with an argument" thing for us.

>>138111002
I don't have to. I just have to point to the overwhelming failure of communism everywhere in history. Mad?

>>138111002
Communism is based on fallacious assertions itself.

>>138111002
"Seize the means of production"
>Audiable starvation of millions of Ukrainans and other Sovjet citizens.

Get out of here STALKER.

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>>138111002
>literally dysgenics

>>138111002
Two main problems with communism:
1.) Economic Calculation Problem guarantees you're all going to be poor fucks
2.) >People will actually reply to this thread without saging

>>138111002
How can real communism work if we have never tried it?

>>138111002
50 U.S. Code Subchapter IV - COMMUNIST CONTROL
Not here
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/chapter-23/subchapter-IV

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This guy had plenty to say about why communism cannot work. Read up on him.

>>138111002
Communism has never been tried.

OH shit i used your own argument against you, damn I'm goood.

>>138113355
Sorry to tell you but corruption is worse in countries with more restrictive economic policies. The more you try to centralize power, the more people will want said power.

>>138113871

He was wrong about literally everything.

Communism has never solved the economic calculation problem, and never will:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

>>138111002
Other than all of the other times communism didn't work, I'm sure it'll work next time!

>>138111002
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

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>>138111002
No they can, you're just to stupid understand any thing about economics,human nature ect.

>>138111002
Because it hasnt

>>138113355
Any proof that he stole 200 billion? That's what I thought. Fuck off with your MSM lies, retard.

>implying a man who rules the country like a monarch needs to steal money

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>>138111002
You're right OP

And yet it does not work.

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>>138111002
You don't want communism either,OP.
>Niggers, autists and snowflakes will have to work or GULAG!
You're really better off being a welfare leech in a capitalist society.

>>138111002
I'll entire dedicate my entire life to making you and yours suffer. Many of your friends are going to be screaming, in a basement with a bloody floor.
Feel free to kys to avoid any grisly fate that you justly deserve

>>138111002
Communism - Good idea, wrong species.

>>138111002
Hell yeah I can steal from the goernment and the public farms (PGR) again just like in the 70s

Tell me about your expeirience with communism you western cuck.

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>>138111002
Communism is a mental illness.

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>>138111002
daily reminder that communists are traiors of the people
viva la anarchy

The burden of proof is on you kike, prove that it does.

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>>138111002
Up to you to give the argument. It has never been convincing to me, in what forms it's told, but I don't have the stunted capacity of a naive five year old.

>>138114372
What does not work? Public property already happens all over the place. That is just the first step

>>138114658
Shit idea, terrible principles

>>138111002
Human nature. Socialism doesn't take human nature into account..and works against it. Hence why communist countries have massive mass murder body counts

Capitalism is designed around human nature, not against it. It does have to be regulated, but it doesn't have to be dictatorial and totalitarian to exist like socialism does. That just comes along with the state owning the means of production and distribution that means by definition totalitarian control is built right in from the start..

>>138111002
Give me an example of how communism works without resorting to fallacies

>>138111002
equality doen't exist. you can't force it to exist, no matter how hard you try. full blown egalitarianism (communism) is an impossibility.

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>>138112843
Real communisum, the specific blend of ideologies and policies that I arrogantly decide is best for the entire human race hasn't been tried yet, but when the globalists get full control they are most likely to implement my specific utopian vision and undoubtedly it will be implemented exactly as I would hope, for the benefit of all mankind, nobody would dare take advantage of a situation like that, even if it gave them more power than any man had previously experienced in recorded history.

>>138111002
Those two cunts don't even know who he is.

>>138111002
Communism would work if *I* were in charge.

Communism = perpetual failed state

>>138114670
If he had any he wouldnt be a fking communist kurwa
Faggots acting like women reading 50 shades "oh yeah cuff me communism, i want my life like in books i read"

>>138111342
It can't work... Soviet Union, China, Cuba... all oligarchies. Communism only works on a really, really, small scale and even then the hot young sister wife always gets fucked more than the others.

>>138115071
Marx already did that for me. Read the Communist manifesto

>>138111002
>Communism is inevitable

So is a bullet waiting for you if you try to take my stuff.

Just a reminder

At any point in time communists and socialists are free to get together and redistribute wealth amongst themselves

> spoilers ahead
> they haven't

>>138115510
>communism works because communist maifesto says so
>Bible is not the proof of God's existence

>>138111002
lol the left is dying, nobody believe in communism and leftists are rotting. I love to watch the poor leftists and rich leftists with their equally moot potential. You're nothing.

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Please leave and go to venezuela.

>>138111002
Ok here is one.
Humans are inharently greedy
The only way for communism to be achived is via the transition of power from the state to the people. The only way for the state to transfer this power is to first obtain it all, via socialism in which the state controls everything. Now as humans are greedy, this transition from a socialist Nation to a communist Nation has never happened because human greed and desire for power does not allow it. You are correct is saying true communism has never been tried because no one has ever survived the socialist period. The only way it can feasibly work is if all power is transferred to a neutral third party with no vested interest in the outcome.

So it can't work because human by nature are greedy

>>138111002
It can't work because of human nature. Humans don't cooperate collectively for collective reward, they work collectively for individual reward. Under the theory of communism everyone shares the results of collective labor; in practice though, individuals with greater power demand a larger share at the expense of the "working class" this creates the same inequality as capitalism without the intrinsic reward for personal effort.

Anyways, see you on the street when the time comes. I will be the one shattering your skull with a pipe.

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>>138111002
>tfw no mindblowing sex with a communist waifu
>tfw you will never come home to your apartment after a hard days work in the factory with your communist wife to greet you and serve you a nice homecooked communist dinner afterwards you have amazing orgasmic communist sex in the bedroom next to a portrait of Stalin knocking her up increasing the white birthrates all the while the Soviet Anthem is playing and the news is talking about how in America they're sending more money to Israel while the middle class is shrinking, being overrun by non-Whites, and porky is hoarding all the money

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/opinion/why-women-had-better-sex-under-socialism.html

>>138111002
that's a weird way to spell historical fact

>>138116258
Remember to archive
https://archive.is/cgJtE

>>138115872
Do you not understand what philosophy is?

>tfw ywn set some neo-commies on fire

Since there isn't a time that it has worked, we can conclusively say it hasn't.

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>>138116598
Lol

>>138111002
>Not one of you is able to come up with a decent argument for why Communism doesn't work without resorting to fallacies.
Desu comrade; no sensible proof that 2+2=5 is false either.

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>>138111002

>>138111002
It has never worked in any country that has tried it . In all human history it has failed . Usually it's citizens have starved to death as food and money runs out .

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>>138111002

>>138112732
>turn your home into a hair salon
>your comrades seize your means of production by confiscating your home

>>138112708
that was a phenominal post, saved

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>>138117022
see
>>138116939

>>138117032
>Death is a preferable alternative to communism

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>>138111002
All leftist ideology is based on the myth of equality. Equality objectively does not exist. Nature's tendency is towards difference, diversification, and specialty. The evidence of this is DNA and the process of speciation. Biology strictly negates the existence of equality. Because equality is completely counter to nature then by extension it is counter to human nature, it is anti-human, as anything that is unnatural must necessarily be. Anything that is anti-human and conter-evolutionary can only lead to extinction and must be considered evil. Because everything that exists in nature was created by God, and because God is goodness, all that exists is good. Anything that does not exist must be considered evil. Because the end goal of communism is full equality between all individuals in society, egalitarianism is synonymous with communism, thus all egalitarians can justly be referred to as communists. Any push for equality of any sort is to force communism. Since equality is a physical impossibility the mythical "real communism", which has never been tried, cannot ever exist and must be considered the ultimate evil.

>>138116598
How the hell can /pol/ claim that Communism doesn't work when it turned not one, but two retarded countries into superpowers, and created many well-off smaller states, all the while being lolbertarians, who couldn't manage even a hamlet for several weeks?

>>138112732
anything can be justified as capital dipshit

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>>138111002
>I refuse to accept the reality that communism always fails!

sage

>>138111002
I cite all of human history

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>>138117032
I invite all Commies to take us up on our offer of free helicopter rides. Commies love free stuff, right?

>>138116344
Even if I don't, it's irrelevant. My country has experienced the shit you dream of in reality, which is far more important than just words on paper. Thanks but no thanks, we don't want your shit anymore, enforce it in your own country as much as you want. Just don't be surprised when everything falls apart. If you survive to see it, of course.

I'm not working a job for the same amount as compensation as somebody who has an easier job.

Period. If you try to make me, I will fuck with your shit until you execute me.

Now go ahead and multiple my sentiment billions of times.

We need to reach post scarcity before anybody would ever earnestly consider real communism without having it forced upon us.

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>>138111002

>fails over and over
>inevitable

Yeah, nah, you retarded cunt.

>>138111002
You eating a bullet is inevitable if you keep this up. So, don't.

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>>138117459
Commies built the best helicopters

>>138114658
T. Jordan Peterson

If you tried to force communism down the throats of Americans, you'd be met with fire and fury. If you tried seizing my property for some bullshit greater good, I'd do everything in my power to defend my property. Just because the average person isn't for political violence doesn't mean the average person is a pacifist. I'd kill you bastards if I had to.

>>138117678
>not wanting commies to eat an hero.

Fucking leafs.

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>>138117515
>Implying socialism and finally communism isn't the logical progression

>>138117715
And they also built the best rocket launchers

>>138117336
Typical low-IQ uneducated polack.

>Because everything that exists in nature was created by God, and because God is goodness, all that exists is good
Do you even see, that you have BTFOed yourself just now? If everything that exists is good, than literally everything is good. I'm not sure about that, but everything created by human is surely part of nature.

> Because the end goal of communism is full equality between all individuals in society
The goal of communism is, in fact, emulating natural habitat of humans before the age of technology: a world without capital, without exploitation, where everybody worked for the good of the tribe, and had as much status as the value they provided for the tribe.

>>138117342
>retarded countries
Fuck off, the Russian Empire was the fastest growing major economy in early 20th century. Stolypin, then the Prime Minister of Russia, introduced amazingly effective reforms, but then he was killed by this kike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Bogrov

>>138117515
It hasn't even been reached yet. If you knew the definition of communism you would know that. Communist parties set out to reach communism, they don't start out as communist

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>>138117515
>I-I-It will work if the whole world has no alternative!
>our ideology is so miserable that we have to build walls to keep people IN, but if they have nowhere to run then it will finally work!
Commie delusion is a mix between hilarious and just sad.

>>138111002
I hear people are thriving under communism in Venezuela

>>138111741
Explain how so

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>>138117980

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>>138118063
>communism in Venezuela
Derp

>>138111587
Bait

Read animal farm.

Reasons:
1. Stalin
2. General Mao
3. Cuba

>>138111002

Because people have to be taught to share.

>>138111002
Things that work produce successful results. Communism has not. The few remaining Communist countries have lagged behind in technological development, quality of life indices, and human rights indices. They are politically isolated. They have not prompted the long-promised international revolution.

Where is my fallacy?

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>>138118097

Sorry, I want to get food whenever I want, not looking to starve and eating 1 meal once a week

>>138111780
>>138111780
>>138111780
Curious anon the flat-earth over need to know!

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>>138111002
The Communist Party of the United States, or any successors of such party regardless of the assumed name, whose object or purpose is to overthrow the Government of the United States, or the government of any State, Territory, District, or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein by force and violence, are not entitled to any of the rights, privileges, and immunities attendant upon legal bodies created under the jurisdiction of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof; and whatever rights, privileges, and immunities which have heretofore been granted to said party or any subsidiary organization by reason of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof, are terminated: Provided, however, That nothing in this section shall be construed as amending the Internal Security Act of 1950, as amended [50 U.S.C. 781 et seq.]
(Aug. 24, 1954, ch. 886, §3, 68 Stat. 776.)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/842?qt-us_code_temp_noupdates=0#qt-us_code_temp_noupdates

>>138113998
This

Centralizion of power will attract people with bad intentions like shit attracts flies

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>>138112732
And what's wrong with private capital? I have the foresight and discipline to live below my means and invest the excess into profitable enterprises in order to improve my future standard of living. Instead of planning for the future, Jamal spends his excess capital on the latest Air Jordans.

When tough times inevitably come, I've built myself a buffer and Jamal comes begging. Am I obligated to provide for Jamal?

Pic related.

>>138112288
>>138112288
>>138112288
I think no response to this is pretty telling.

>>138117930
>Do you even see, that you have BTFOed yourself just now? If everything that exists is good, than literally everything is good. I'm not sure about that, but everything created by human is surely part of nature.
i literally just proved to you that equality does not exist in nature. abstractions like equality don't exist in nature, they exist in the imaginations of men, they are spooks. how do you not get that?

>The goal of communism is, in fact, emulating natural habitat of humans before the age of technology: a world without capital, without exploitation, where everybody worked for the good of the tribe, and had as much status as the value they provided for the tribe.
>unironically believing that living in the stone age is good
it's because of division of labor (ie specialty, inequality) that we have civilization. building a culture on stone age values will only regress that culture

>>138112908
Jesus Christ, really?

>>138117967
Do you even believe in this yourself?
- Russian Empire didn't win a single real war since Napoleon (disregarding colonial shit)
- The somewhat adequate reforms (Who were actually planned by Vitte, and were simply attributed to Stolypin), were shot down, just like every attempt at progress since Catherine, by all-powerful, degenerate and decadent aristocracy.
- Major population was dirt poor and uneducated.
- The state itself was semidependent upon Britain and France since BTFO in Crimean war.
- Absolutely never, in its history, was Russia ever close to the Soviet power and potency.

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The Communist Party of the United States, or any successors of such party regardless of the assumed name, whose object or purpose is to overthrow the Government of the United States, or the government of any State, Territory, District, or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein by force and violence, are not entitled to any of the rights, privileges, and immunities attendant upon legal bodies created under the jurisdiction of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof; and whatever rights, privileges, and immunities which have heretofore been granted to said party or any subsidiary organization by reason of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof, are terminated: Provided, however, That nothing in this section shall be construed as amending the Internal Security Act of 1950, as amended [50 U.S.C. 781 et seq.]
(Aug. 24, 1954, ch. 886, §3, 68 Stat. 776.)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/842?qt-us_code_temp_noupdates=0#qt-us_code_temp_noupdates

Day of reckoning for these commie scum is coming. You are not protected by the same rights Americans have. You have no rights here in America.

Karl Marx was nothing more than a trust fund hipster baby.

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Do commies actually think that the jews aren't just going to kill all the subhumans on earth the second they figure out automation?

BECAUSE DOMINANCE HIERARCHIES ARE OLDER THAN TREES

Know communism by the fruit of communism! Know capitalism by the fruit of capitalism! When you have looked to the practical outcomes of each, which one looks like it better serves the needs of the least of us?

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Communist russia and nazi germany fell over half a decade ago and still retards carry on their legacy of violence and oppression.

>>138118488
People can exploit capital for wealth, wealth not made through their own fruits of labour but labour of the workers that work on their property. It wasn't so bad when there was less of a class gap but now its getting ridiculous.

>>138112191
>>138112191
>>138112191
>>138112191

>>138118812
Capitalism obviously. Why is it so hard for someone to own a house even if they work fulltime

Reminder that lefty/pol/ refuses to work or seek out gainful employment. They are praying for the day of universal gibs.

>>138112191
Yeah Marx did that by building off of Hegel. Its a philosophy that is always being worked on.

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Even the Russians and all soviet states gave up on communism . Millions killed oppressing people ! People sent to gulags . There always has to be a boss in communism . Always people at the top keeping the money . The dear leader keeps the money and poor suffer famine like in North Korea . Go live there they do t even let them have free internet or tv or freedom !!

Who owns the anarcho-capitalism books torrent?

>>138112708
Very well written post, thx for the save anon.

>>138118655
He also knocked up his maid then threw her into the street. A true hero of the working class he was.

ru all fucked, everyone will die
if americucks accept communism
americans who like communism SHOULD BE
HUNG

>hanged

>>138119156
Workers are the ones who benefit the most out of communism. And if we have enough wealth to spread it around so others can live at a minimum level then why not? Social assistance isn't even the main argument here anyway.

>>138112908
Labor unto itself has no value.

If communists are so concerned about public healthcare, why does life expectancy either stagnate or go down whenever communism is implemented? See - USSR, Cambodia (1970s)

It doesn't work because it needs a power structure (the party) which eventually becomes another class of privileged citizens. That class eventually wants to perpetuate its power, it becomes a nomenklatura. This breeds corruption at all levels, because everyone is trying to get in the nomenklatura, using bribes.

Also since people don't own much, they get "all they need" from the state, they tend to slack at work, just sit around idling and are not so productive. And they tend to steal from public property, because that's the only way to get ahead in the social structure. It's part of Homo economicus to want to have a higher living standard relative to the others, which creates a rat race in an impossible environment. Everyone is trying to steal more and bribe more aparatchniks to get to positions of power.

Eventually the whole system becomes one giant corruption scheme. The party leadership no longer trusts anyone, so they start monitoring everyone's life, using their intelligence service and tapping everyone's phones. The media is controlled, the flow of information is very slow and filtered, so the economy suffers from lack of competitiveness, since people are just uninformed and lack the latest information about technology.

So, the whole system become a totalitarian panopticon, in which the elites try to control everything, to make sure they will never lose power, while the plebs are desperately trying to bribe their way into the nomenklatura.

The economy falters, due to lack of competitiveness and productivity. People don't trust anyone, for fear they might get reported, and they don't have any hope about their future. The system is barely shuffling its feet forward, waiting for the first major crisis to collapse completely.

It's only a question of whether it's going to be a bloody collapse or a peaceful one.

Communism, like any utopia, fails because it's based on an erroneous understanding of human nature.

>>138119309
>Not one of you is able to come up with a decent argument for why Communism doesn't work without resorting to fallacies.

thanks for proving my point

>>138111002
No, YOU PEOPLE are the ones resorting to fallacies.

>>138119446
>It doesn't work because it needs a power structure (the party) which eventually becomes another class of privileged citizens.

Not necessarily. Its not like its the 1917s anymore where its a power grab as soon as you get in. Regulation isn't impossible.

>>138111002
History shows it failed to work.

>>138111002
GOVERNMENT CANT SET PRICES

if you dont know what that means you dont know jack anything about markets anyway

>>138119549
Thats a fallacy though.

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>>138118930
You're right. The system you propose is completely immune to exploitation. I can't see how this would go wrong. Pic related

And for my other question, am I responsible for providing for someone else when they misallocate their fair share of resources?

I've been to China (inb4 not real communism) and the office buildings and apartments have free state provided heat. Free stuff. Woo hoo! Every commie's dream. The buildings are kept oppressively hot. The people crank up the heat because why not, its free. People are incentivized to use as much heat as possible because there is no direct cost to them. A moral hazard. This leads to 1. an inefficient use of resources and 2. suboptimal conditions (it was fucking hot).

>>138119349
Which workers?

>>138119580
This guy ignores Materialistic dialectics completely

>>138111002
The best part of the story of communists comes when capital displaces labor with automation and no longer needs to deal with its threats of "seizing the means of production" and can just exterminate labor.

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Do you support me being shot? Do you support the sweat of my brow being stolen from me?

>>138111002
China was a dirt poor shithole until resorting to capitalism.

Soviet Russia was a super power, but faced off with capitalism and is now a dirt poor shithole.

GET FUCKIN REKT NERD

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>>138119349
Extreme poverty in North Korea for the peasants . I don't see any trickle down or equality . Never saw dear leader go hungry . These antifa will never bring communism to USA . They live at home ffs and study gender studies in college . Like Marx they have never had to work a day in their lives

>>138119490
it is not a fallacy that will hang you in my country
canada

for tearing it apart from trudeau father to you

you are disgusting and 40 minutes on the
internet could show ANYBODY
who can use google
that
YOURE ARE DISGUSTING

>>138119814
how

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>>138111002

>>138118930
you idiot, under communism, a hardworking man gets paid exactly as much as his lazy as fuck coworker, and i'm a lazy fuck, but i dont ever want communism implemented because: IT. DOES. NOT. WORK.

>>138119645
Communism came to power through popular vote in some countries, after WW2.

Regulations are implemented by the party, no criticism is allowed. They decide they know better what's best for anyone. Freedom of speech is not allowed, every point of view must be based on ideological tenets. Etc.

I actually lived in Communism so I know why it always fails.

It amuses me to see some idiots still cling to such ideas.

>>138119938
??
Not sure what you are even talking about anymore

>>138111002
Communism doesn't work with classical american values. I can't wait to watch you cunts get murdered while I buy a new car. Suck a dick you bunch of worthless faggots.

>>138112732
Capital is just investment money.
What about non profits?
They're perfectly devoid of capital, but they are privately owned, and not communistic

>>138111002
Actually, it's dead simple.
Of course, the Marxian definition of value is ridiculous. All the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero. By corollary, unskillful work can easily subtract value; an untalented cook can turn wholesome dough and fresh green aooles, vauable already, into an inedible mess, value zero. Conversely, a great chef can fasion of the same material a confection of greater value than a commonplace apple tart, with no more effort than an ordinary cook uses to prepare an ordinary sweet.
"These kitchen illustrations demolish the Marxian theory of value- the fallacy from which the entire magnificent fraud of communism derives- and illustrates the truth of common-sense definition as measured in terms of use.
the disheveled old mystic of Das Kapital, turgid, tortured, confused, and neurotic, unscientific, illogical, this pompous fraud Karl Marx, nevertheless had a glimmering of a very important truth. If he had possessed an analytical mind, he might have formulate the first adequate definition of value... this planet might have been saved endless grief.

>>138119446
I see your Romanian flag . You guys know about the suffering under communism . Cheuchescu made his people suffer . Very sad

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>>138111002
Do you believe true equality exists, or is even possible? Let alone preferable?

>>138111002
while I am not an anarchocap(that is a retarded ideology in itself), I do agree with them on one thing: you need a free helicopter ride.

anywhere communism was tried millions of people died.

>>138119890
North Korea isn't communist

>>138120063
>Communism came to power through popular vote in some countries, after WW2.

Do you mean those Soviet sham elections? Dude. That's like saying Mao was popularly elected.

>>138111342
and when collective ownership is forced on me, when I know I can beat most people...well that makes me want to tear down the organizations forcing it on me, and slit throats, drink blood and eat children.

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>>138111002
WTF I LOVE COMMUNISM

>>138116258
>have to do no work unless you are some non-city dweller in which case you work in state run factories/mills/power plants/etc
>have all day to fuck

wow really makes you think

Noted and SAGED !

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>>138111002
Lived in a communist country for 20 years and saw the anarchic aftermath that Communism brought. Two words, (((tovarisch))); Never again!
You slimeball, basement dwelling, goblin.

>>138120042
Source on everyone getting paid exactly the same under communism?

>>138112288
you can own stuff under communism dummy

>>138120410
>138120410
no fallacies read the OP

>>138111002
The title of your thread is the reason. Belief in Hegelian dialectic as applied to history is the reason communism fails, every time.

>>138120410
nice teef

>>138120215
There is no such thing as equality. Communism just wants to make how people make money less exploitative on workers

>>138116595
>>138116595
>>138116595
No responses either. Hmmmmmmm.

>>138120463
You literally cannot.
China.
Russia
Tibet
Mongolia
Cuba
Venezuela.
All examples in which the wonderous fallacy you spout about people being able to own things falls apart. All items are owned by the state and can be withdrawn at any time. Where you are deprived the free will to work where you will and are instead forced into working jobs the state orders you to work.

What a wondrous fallacy Socialism is. Bequeath even more power to a state.

>>138120410

+1

Communism is just another way Oligarchs nationalize countries for them to embezzle the economic profits when they can no longer debase currencies.

They rely on the financial illiteracy of their Bolshevik army which is wiped out by the Oligarchs as soon as the cement power and redraft the Courts to protect their nationalized gains.

There is no more communist systems left because communism only works as an export dumping country where a slave-wage class can work in heavy industry for the party elites.

>>138111002
If I can kill you it will work by golly

>>138120520
Marxism is a materialist dialectic. But why do you say that, what would cause the dialectic to make communism fail every time?

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>>138111002
Every attempt at communism has failed.

>>138120241
AND WHY HAS COMMUNISM FAILED TO MATERIALIZE THERE, EXACTLY?

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>>138120571
No more exploited workers real soon now. :^)

>>138120739
The black man would only benefit under communism. No more capitalists exploiting Africa

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>>138111002

>>138120867
Well thats the question

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>>138111002
Capitalist pigs will roast

>>138120936
That isn't an argument against Marx's philosophy, try again.

>>138120199
Yeah, thanks.

Communism is destructive in all ways. It stunts your material development and deforms people's mentalities.

Turns people into rats, living in a panopticon colony. They feel watched, monitored, controlled, and powerless.

Imagine living in a society in which basic goods like bread or milk are only sold on a ration basis.

Where everything you watch on TV is censored by the state/party. Every TV show is basically a bunch of sycophants praising "the party and the genius leader of our glorious Communist society".

It's just the worst possible system.

>>138120192
Capital isn't investment money, although that is a common understanding. Capital is the means of production - such things as mines, farms, factories, and infrastructures.
Capitalism as an ideal is the idea of using the means of production to maximize personal profit, and then using personal profit to invest in further means of production. If everyone in society is doing this, it leads to tremendous wealth generation and harmonious resolutions of people's needs. For in a capitalist order the process of serving other people becomes unified with the process of exploiting other people, and right actions are naturally rewarded by prosperity.

>>138121039
Along with 50% of the population

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>>138111002
commies can't even grow sage in their fields

>>138111002
Communism will never be achieved, the idea of a perfect Utopia is idiotic at best and will never be possible, stop holding onto your delusional dream of never having to work for things.

>>138120296
What difference does it make? People didn't have the civic culture to oppose them. The effects of Communism are the same, no matter how it came to power.

It's the most destructive political system in history.

>>138120695
t. retard who never read a book in his life

there is no difference at the very top between communism and capitalism
and you wont be at the top in either

>>138121234
Yeah Cuba and the Soviet Union were paradigms of economic prosperity, you fucking retard.

>>138121207
No. It is inevitable. Unlike you capitalist pigs, we study the past and learn from mistakes

>>138111002
None of you faggots are blue collar workers. You're all psuedo intelectuals. If I handed you a shovel, you couldn't dig down a meter without crying out or running out of breath. Blue collar master race WILL kill you, no larping, no joke. We hate you faggots.

>>138121150

This is 300% wrong. Capital is investment dollars. That is its legal definition. Capital is savings which is removed from the money supply and invested into physical infrastructure or productive assets which make cash flow, and that in turn becomes economic profits & future growth (or savings).

In Communism, you never see any of that profit as it goes back to the party, which the party elites embezzle for themselves; often to offshore holes or, in the case of the USSR, Miami Florida.

>>138112908
Both are based on scarcity and desired value. Competition and supply regulate prices. Way to dodge the question tho lol.

>>138120749
not sure what the anon meant but I would say it's because dialectic is a good way of allowing us to understand things that have already happened, but not a good way of predicting future events.

If Communists were correct about their dialectics, shouldn't they be able to predict smaller-scale historical events other than "eventually it will be Communism"? But they can't predict these things. They just always predict that "the revolution is coming soon" but it never does. So if dialectics can't predict any of the smaller events, why would it predict the ultimate inevitability of communism?

>>138121469
I'm not an expert in Marx's theory of labour value. You'd have to read Das Kapital for your answer.

i'd say it's possible only to root in Western countries, and backwards Latino countries, as everyone else who has formerly been under such a system, won't go through with it again.

even then though, the truth is, in Western countries, all you commies are really doing is the legwork for neo-liberal globalists.

>>138120954
NO REALLY, WHY HAS A MASSIVE CENTRALIZED SINGULAR GOVERNING BODY FAILED TO BRING ABOUT UTOPIA?

>>138121634
>idk read it
faggot you ever build anything in your life? no, you fold sweaters and thing you work hard.
Suck a bullet you wannabe faggot.
I can't wait to watch you die.

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>>138116939
>2nd fastest growing economy of the 20th century

Gotta stop you right there anon. Yes, that was true for the period immediately following WWII. The Soviet government pumped massive amounts of investment into the economy and it grew for a while. But a large amount of capital was invested into unprofitable investments. Malinvestment was allowed to continue until it eventually swamped profitable investments. By the 1980's this is what a Soviet grocery store looked like.

The US on the other hand allowed private investment to run its course. It starts off slow but malinvestment is naturally culled when private capital owners suffer losses. Without the dead weight of continuing malinvestment, the US left the USSR in the dust. Same thing happened in North and South Korea.

Ever play Victoria 2? As a planned economy, its really easy to build a bunch of factories early on. Changes in the market can render those factories unprofitable. You are left to choose between subsidizing the factory and taking losses or closing the factory and putting workers out of a job. Unemployed workers get angry and start revolutions. Commies would rather subsidize the factory until the entire system collapses before putting workers out of work. Laissez faire on the other hand is slow to start out and you may not get the factories you want but is flexible to respond to changes. Unprofitable factories are closed and new ones take their place.

>>138111002
The whole thread is about proving a negative....
But one would think that most people would be right in questioning the legitimacy of a political system that has failed every time it has been tried.
If your position is that communism has never been tried, then the onus is still on the adherents to prove that their meme ideology can even exist and succeed.

>>138118092
Well, for one, the "Labor Theory of Value" is total bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_the_labour_theory_of_value

https://fee.org/articles/were-still-haunted-by-the-labor-theory-of-value/

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>>138121556
It depends on if you believe in the theory in the first place. Hegel's would lead to something else

>>138121634
I've read Das Kapital. And I can honestly tell you it does not take into account human nature, like at all.

>>138111002
The government can never do anything efficiently, because they have no competition. If their practices bleed money or destroy your home or stifle progress, all you can do is wait for a new election. If nobody has guns, then that election doesn't even have to come.

Capitalism and the free market are rooted in human psychology. Because it works. The people who succeed are the ones best given the opportunity to succeed more. They can use their excess capital to make new products affordable for the average man, fund scientific research, and create jobs for less competent people.

We are not all equal, but if you don't try your best, you'll never know how competent you are. Socialism, communism, Marxism, postmodernism, equity, social nustice...these are the philosophies are sore losers; these are the people who think every player can be MVP and no one ever has to lose. I'm sorry: if no one loses, no one wins.

>>138111002

why don't you try it small scale first and show us how great it is.

>>138121408
>we learn from mistakes
"But that wasn't real Communism!"

>>138122049
It wasn't though, and that is why we will continue fighting

>>138111002
Easy. Communism is easily defeated by the law of gravity.

>>138121985
The real world leads to other results. Survival of the fittest is not a meme. I've fired 19 faggots who couldn't even lift a 16' 2x12 this week. I hope they die next to you.

>>138111002

Communism can only work in an ethnonational state with people that believe in traditional family values and don't care for excess trappings.

The USSR WAS working until Western degeneracy and equality came along.

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>>138121039
Who likes historical materialism?

>>138122238
>what is national socialism
Hang yourself abbo nigger.

>>138116258
>communist dinner
so nothing?

>>138121222
>Democracy
>Not Democracy
>What's the diff, capitalist pigdog? We will massacre you either way.

>>138117466
The men who implemented it in your country were power-hungry, ruthless bastards. And this is why I believe communism could never work as Marx intended unless the people themselves decide to organize a communist government. As long as there are positions of extreme power in these so-called communist societies, there are doomed to fail.

>>138122177
Yeah, Marx's theory is based entirely on the "real world". Thats what Material is, the stuff that exists

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>>138122427
>the people themselves
>organizing anything

>>138119303
>True hero of the working class he was
>He was

He was what? Finish the fucking sentence!

>>138122177
>I've fired 19 faggots who couldn't even lift a 16' 2x12 this week

You should make it 20 and fire your recruiter

>>138121985
You have a very narrow view of classes throughout history, commie. In real life, what was the patrician of yesterday is the plebian of tomorrow. But, no, communists assume, rather ignorantly I might add, that classes are stagnant, that once an upper crust, always an upper crust or once poverty stricken, always poverty stricken with no class movement or intermingling whatsoever.

>>138122427
>Marx intended unless the people themselves decide to organize a communist government.
I think this is true. Socialism from the bottom up, not the top down. ie start with cooperative businesses first

>>138122121
It wasn't real communism because the utopian ideal is a pipe dream. A classless state cannot be achieved because humans by their biological nature form and operate in dominance hierarchies as a fundamental social structure.

>>138120900
Except if the machine turns like those chinese AIs and refuse to actually work for you, comrade, kek.

>>138122238
Nah the USSR just collapsed economically. They couldn't sustain the arms race to keep up with the USA's military endowment.

So eventually they had to cut some of the workers' benefits, until the system failed to provide the goods to keep everyone under control.

>>138122481
Creationism is based on the real world too. That doesn't mean it is an accurate depiction of the real world or things that have occurred.

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Communism is best!

>>138111002
The "final communism" is utopia.

Fuck off faggot.

>>138122771
Yes. (((americans)))

>>138122350

It goes further. NatSoc still had classes and private businesses.

>>138122771

People started wanting Western social products, which combined with what you said, destroyed it. They wanted Western liberalism, and the women were a big factor.

>>138122121
Fighting for what? A shithole future? Oh, and of course it wasn't real communism, its never real communism. Communism isn't Communism. Communism has nothing to do with real communism.

>>138120571
Through a dictatorship of the proletariat?

>>138123108
>A shithole future?
No, thats if we continue down this path

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>>138122812
Communism is best! Until it fails miserably and everyone you've ever known is sent to the gulag.
Retard.

>>138122121
>we'll keep fighting until "fake" communism destroys the world!
such a noble goal

>>138111002
80% nostalgic old farts in the picture, once they'll die the russian communist party will too.

>>138111002
Are you an anarcho communist or a communist? Either way, they both need someone to make sure that no one creates a class, they both require a hierarchy.

The only thing that is worse than Communism is what we have now. Still, fuck you commie scumbags.

>nu/pol/ can't even btfo a comie

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>>138123379

>>138123357
>such a noble goal
It is, despite your sarcasm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sh4kz_zhyo

>>138111002
>com is inevitable
So is death fuck you

>>138123096
They wanted Western prosperity, they had no idea about Western politics and policies. Or the mental price they would have to pay to get to that prosperity.

Women didn't have any special rights in Communist Romania. Abortions were illegal, for example. But women played no special role in the collapse of Communism here.

>>138123260
What path? You mean the path of capitalism? The path that's led to unparalleled prosperity and innovation for large masses of the population for the first time in human history?

>>138111002
Damn If I can have a threeway with those chick I'll become a commie scum

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>>138123260
This is what most of the world will look like once capital eliminates all of the unproductive laborers.

>>138111587
*tip*

>>138111002
Most people don't like being forced to be poor

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>>138123602
Yes. The future under capitalism is grim friend

>>138111002
Pareto Principle. A minority of the people produce a majority of the goods. Communism has no mechanism for allocating resources to account for this. On top of that, Communism has, at its core, the base assumption that people are blank slates at birth, which is objectively false. We've had millions of years of behaviors and biases bred into us by evolution. Most men will strive to have more resources than the guy next to him in order to attract a more attractive mate.

>>138123523
So you're fine with the "fake" communism you hate so much dominating the world?

>>138123790
Oh, it seems like you aren't that concerned with the exploitation of laborers after all. You are concerned about the useless surplus population :^)

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>>138111002
>pic related

>>138122177
Jesus christ anon the stupidity of these commie degenerates is awful.

>>138111002
For starters human nature. Provide us a utopia and then communism will work, otherwise go fuck yourself pinko.

>>138111002
America has been brainwashed by decades of anti-communist propaganda. It's impossible to reason with these cuckmonkeys, we'll just have to wait until a major happening to sweep-in and liberate the shit out of these capitalist subhumans.

>>138123807
Stalin is worse than Hitler. Go fuck yourselves, you bigots.

>>138124022
I'm making a point about the end point of capitalism. Yes I'm concerned about exploitation but also the fact that there might not even be any jobs at all for a shitload of people

>>138123972
Didn't they find elsewhere that conservative women were better looking? Honestly though, not an argument.

>>138118128
Check the date on your little meme. Maduro and Chavez have been seizing private businesses and nationalizing resources.

A lot has changed since then

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>>138111002

>>138124249
that you'll undoubtedly kill

>>138123869
What do you mean, the internationale goes back to the 19th century. Nothing to do with the soviet union or whatever you are referring to

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>>138124158
>brainwashed
You sound like a product of American higher education. Full of moronic communists.

Oh I can't wait till I can legally cleanse commies from the streets.
I don't see your faggot ass moving to China if communism is so great.

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>>138124239

why would you say such a nonsense?

>>138124583
Except, now a days, China is communist in name only.

>>138123790
First of all, I'm not your friend, retard. Second of all, Capitalism is the reason why the internet as we all know it exists today, the free market system that Capitalism provides offers a much higher percentage of success for the common worker than Communism can even dream of, and is not going anywhere.

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>>138124158
*tries to liberate Amazon campus #72345 once*
*his Majesty Jeffrey Bezos IV sends his peace drones to liquidate it*

>>138124583
>china
>communism

at least say true stuff famalam

>>138124158
Historical materialism is a farce, the entire foundation of the Marxist dialectic is wrong. Race is the bedrock of human interaction, not class.

>>138124249
The end point of capitalism is fascism.

>>138123501
Old farts who brought their grandsons to a demonstration

>>138124622
Because it's true, asshole.

>>138124736
>Capitalism is the reason why the internet as we all know it exists today
It comes from ARPANET, funded by the US government

>>138124751
The end point of Capitalism is Prosperity.
The end point of Communism is Facism

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Communism died with the 20th Century.
Read Dugin.

>>138111002
Economic collapse, mass starvation, totalitarianism

>>138124622
What I'm saying is not nonsense. It is the TRUTH.
You are spewing the nonsense around here.

>>138124954
i'm just glad that when i die surrounded by empty brass and the bodies of commies, i will know you will die being fed your own excrement in a commie gulag

poetic justice really

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>>138125049
>The end point of Communism is Facism

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>>138111002
>Not one of you is able to come up with a decent argument for why Communism doesn't work

Here's a good argument.

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>>138125205
Not an argument

>>138112908
>gives an evasive non-answer to one of the most basic economic questions
Get your shit together and come back some other time.

>>138118128
>its not socialism even of the government controls prices and wages.

>>138125272
"Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.

t. mussolini

...and the endpoint of any commie regime before it collapses

>>138111002
Communism will never work because most humans will not work the same for strangers than themselves, communism does not take human nature into account and nobody wants to be forced to help other people.

You have an image supporting a mass-murderer, dictator and a sociopath that killed more people than even Hitler, how do you feel about supporting someone like that? That is just as bad as people supporting Hitler.

>>138111587
Speaking of Hitler, this talking of inferiority is starting to sound familiar.

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>muh fallacies
Human nature isn't a logical fallacy you fucking autist.

>>138125198
Godnigger, I'll do anything for you.

>>138125323
http://www.killingfieldsmuseum.com/s21-victims.html

>>138125518
Funded by the US by the way

>>138111587
Communism is a rationalist philosophy. All available empirical evidence suggests it isn't compatible with human society long term. There is nothing scientific about anything inherently resistant to empirical refutation. It's a religion for pseudointellectual parasites.

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Worshipping Communism and Nazism in the 21st Century is reactionary and frankly autistic. It's escapism, immersing yourselves in ideology that was only relevant within the historical context of the early 20th century is masturbation.
We live in a unique time. And this time calls for a unique movement that can easily fit into the context of the early 21st century.

>>138125672
lol you're delusional

>>138125323
Reminder that while lolbertarians are being squeezed by reality into "fascists are friends XD" contortions, the leftcoast tech industry is building feudalism without the need of serfs.

>>138125862
Its common knowledge

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/polpotmontclarion0498.html

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Anarcho capitalism is inevitable.

See anon. Just because you think communism is the perfect end result system, based on morals, another person can say fuck you my form of government can also be a perfect system, based on morals.

Morality is assumed across all political spectrums. That's why no one really takes anyone on the far right that says only individualism matters(although you can easily make the case that it mostly matters). Communism as the purest moral system is false because
1) it destroys individuality/expression

You are no longer an person with hobbies and peculiar interests that have value to you and other people, but rather it is what the government wants you to be/own. You are a number. And to me, that is extremely immoral. Anarcho capitalism at least has a better potential because if we assume perfect morality, you get what you put out, people can give those in need, by whom THEY see fit, and greed would no longer exist. Again assuming a perfect moral compass

Easy. The Labor Theory of Communism states: "the value of a commodity can be objectively measured by the average number of labor hours required to produce that commodity".
The disproof of the theory: there is a village square where both Susan and Mary open pie shops. They both have ovens, access to materials, and perform the same amount of labor with the same skill level. Susan is successful and Mary fails. Why?
Because Susan makes fruit pies for people to eat, and Mary bakes ceramic pies for people to buy as "art". Their labor is valued the same, but the product is not. The labor theory of communism is completely false.

>>138124954
The US government is the strongest purveyor of capitalism the world has ever seen...

>>138125432
>T. understanding of fascism is a 4 word quote
Communism seeks to exacerbate class conflict, whereas fascism seeks to end it through the supremacy of the state. Communist regimes typically tried to erase the memory of their history and culture, whereas fascist regimes typically glorified and elevated their history and culture. Communist regimes typically captured private enterprises using the state, whereas fascist regimes typically privatized public enterprises into the hands of trusted citizens. Communist regimes typically fought against the middle class and petite bourgeoise, whereas fascist regimes' strongest supporters were the middle class and petite bourgeoise.

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>>138111587
Sociology isn't a science. You cant just invent your own science based on your flawed incorrect view of society, then claim it as evidence to support your flawed view of society. "Religious idiots" do the same thing with their bible you know.

>>138125941
>msu
yeah i'll believe your revisionism that when my shit turns purple and smell like rainbow sherbet

America during the cold war isn't going to fund any commie regime

>>138126512
They did though

>According to Michael Haas, despite publicly condemning the Khmer Rouge, the U.S. offered military support to the organization and was instrumental in preventing UN recognition of the Vietnam-aligned government.[15] Haas argued that the U.S. and China responded to efforts from the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) for disarming the Khmer Rouge by ensuring the Khmer Rouge stayed armed,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_United_States_support_for_the_Khmer_Rouge

Raise your paw if you are a communist with a government job that goes to rallies to hit losers from /pol/ with bats, when not solving captchas to improve Google's object recognition (sure are a lot of road signs and cars, huh?) to displace millions of workers. :^)