Communism

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Because I don't need an overarching big daddy state to help me do things I can do on my own through my own merits.

>exploitation
At the moment, what you mean by this is literally equal standards. Affirmative action is Marxist redistribution of careers. That's right down to the source of capital in a technocratic society.

>inb4 lalala not communism because the Soviets didn't do it
Yeah, because this is designed to make people racist and sexist to cause revolution. Why would the Soviets sabotage their own state?

fuck off commie

>>137985018
Halp, I am being paid a wage me and my employer agreed upon, I am being "exploited", this fine gentleman with the big nose surely will help and doesn't have an alterior motive. Surely.

Capitalist nations build walls to stop people from getting in, communist nations build walls to stop people from getting out. Communist states are slave societies. They are slaves to the commissars. It is not a worthy existence for a human to have, but a complex sick system whose elimination is a worthy human endeavor.

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Communists are all around better people

>>137985018
"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work"

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>>137985018

>workers cant be exploited if they are all dead from starvation
>black man pointing to his head.jpg

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>>137985691
>>137985018
Communists and Nazis are the same people.

Kill yourself.

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>>137985018

Communism: It'll make a man out of you!

>>137986020
You could start by looking up the definitions

>>137986032
ad hominem, that person doesn't represent the communist ideology and the hammer and sickle is obviously shopped anyway.

>>137985018
>Why aren't you a communist?

Communism is the very definition of failure.

>>137985018
I like food and need some to live

>>137985018
Communism offers poor solutions to simple issues, that can be easily solved by not being communist.

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>>137986488
and your ideology hasn't failed in some way. Quitters are the definition of failure but Communism lives on.

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>>137986331

Sorry, how about this one?

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>>137986331
Maybe this one?

>>137986954
your cherry picked photo's have nothing to do with Marx's philosophy

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>>137985018
communism is a lie. it is the modern form of religion. it gives moral authority to the ruling elite. you are a tool. look at your flag. tools.

>>137987341
You don't know how it works.

>>137987250

His philosophy appeals to literal human failures for people who contribute nothing but believe they're owed everything.

It's why you only see people age 25 and under shouting about MUH GREAT GOMMUNISM, it's literal retard-tier ideology that appeals to the worst of society.

I'm guessing that's why you like it?

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>>137987833

I don't give a fuck about the "worker" I think he's a low IQ moron and deserves to be exploited. He's lucky we just don't get rid of him and replace him with a robot. Fuck communists and fuck you for posting this retarded bait thread.

>>137985018
What do you do for a living?

>>137987833
Have you ever heard of a book called the Gulag Archipelago? It was written by a man who spent 15 years as a part of the Soviet prison system, and details explicitly the process by which the implementation of each of Marx's theories into Soviet law led to the slaughter of literally millions of innocents. It's a tough read at 2100 pages, but it won a Nobel prize for a reason. Read it to learn a little more about communism OP, if nothing else to learn why everyone in this thread is making these arguments against you.

>>137987845
Its a philosophy for workers. You earn what you make through the fruits of your labour.

>>137988488
I already do that and I have good healthcare. And $4000 tuition reimbursement for undergrad. $5000 for grad level. And a flexible schedule. And cross training so I'm a more valuable employee.

What do you do again?

>>137985018
It's purpose is to literally exploit and alienate the worker tho...

>>137988488

Problem is, son, workers typically have zero concept of the costs to create and operate the means of production.

It's why Zimbabwe is what it is - when you don't know what you're doing and decide to "seize the means", you end up a fucking dumpy hellhole from your own arrogance and greed.

Something tells me you haven't actually "worked" anything other than at a bookstore, coffee shop or similar low-level position, which breeds envy and jealousy for those who worked harder to move up, and causes you to believe in fairy tale meme ideologies that make you think you're as capable as those who are running the show.

Hint: if you HAD actual value to society, you'd be doing more and achieving more. Communism blames one's laziness and lack of drive on the evils of capitalism, rather than ever asking the individual to be remotely introspective and accept personal accountability.

Again, that's why it's appealing to a 25 year old with a Gender Studies degree and $75k in student debt who makes $10/hour pouring lattes all day.

>>137985018
...because I wanna be able to look in the eyes of my children and not cry of shame when they ask me how many people communism killed.

>>137985018
Because it doesn't hold up economically, especially when compared to mixed market economies.

>>137989286
>Problem is, son, workers typically have zero concept of the costs to create and operate the means of production.

Who does it now? are those people going to just disappear? You realize that it involves work either way right.

>>137988698
What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about getting paid fair for the work you do.

>>137988442
I have read his work yes. I don't really see how it correlates with Marx's main theories, he never wrote about how to deal with prisoners.

>>137985018
by introducing poverty and mass starvation

nice! slava stalin :DDDDD

>>137985018
Because I'm the person who commies want to steal from.

Why do only poor people and the elite support communism?

the ultimate goal of existence to NOT work or labor. By that there is no work or required exertion necessary. If someone chooses to put forth physical or mental effort okay but it is not compelled or compulsory. That is not to say there is no activity or endeavors to pursue or that everyone would be a couch potato, but personal edification through learning doing experiencing would be the way things are, not having to constantly do labor or work to survive. Leisure time is the highest quality of existence. The worst way of existence is to be a worker, to HAVE to be a laborer to subsist and survive. When one achieves personal advancement in many areas they are then free and magnanimous with their fellow humans and other living things. Labor required or forced labor is enslavement. When there is no required labor then there will be no 'labor' or 'socialist' political parties or any government system based upon the concept of 'labor' or 'workers'. Free yourself free your fellow humanity.

>>137990422
>Why do only poor people and the elite support communism?
poor people think they have something to gain while the elite want to use it to stay in control

>>137989830
>Who does it now?
I never disagreed that the workers have value, but they do not have the same value as the person who put their finances on the line to create the company. They have none of the same risk, hence, they do not get the same reward. Meritocracy is a bitch, ain't it?

>are those people going to just disappear?
Unfortunately for you, in many cases, they will as automation takes over. Some of that is profit-driven, some is due to the laziness and lack of reliability of most modern low-level workers, and some is because of the low-level workers having zero grasp on finance and thinking that everything is worth $20/hour. Kiosks will be replacing most low-level service jobs soon, robotics in assembly, that's the future whether you like it or not.

>You realize that it involves work either way right.
Yes, and again, because of the high demands vs. low returns given by many workers, they'll find themselves eliminated in due time.

Those who have value will be kept, those who do not are replaced. That's how it works.

Don't like it? Open your own business. But, that takes money, credit, patience, time, and a whole lot more that 99.9% of the population does not have in them.

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>>137985018
>exploitation and alienation of the worker
Literally spooks, "exploitation" and "alienation" is only a thing if you want it to be a thing.

>>137990428
Except it'll never work like that. Someone or a group will cease the military and control of government and then you will find your labor being mandatory or you do not eat. Then you'll find your labor being used to make the elite rich again. Communism is like Democracy, it doesn't last. It is just transitional phase. Once you hand all authority over to the government you will find yourself not better off or freer, you will find yourself the property.

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>>137985018
>merit

>>137990588
It was rhetorical, but you're correct.

>>137985018
https://pastebin.com/2RvwQDnj

>>137990727
>cease the military
It would be hard to control the government without a military.

>>137990701
I hate the whole "spooks" term, but it's applicable on these.

Nobody is being "exploited" if they agree to a wage in exchange for their services. Nobody forced anyone to take a job against their will, so therefore, it's never, ever exploitation by default. Don't agree to do something you don't want to do, problem is solved.

I have no idea on the purpose of commie's "alienation" - everywhere I worked in my younger days on the lower end, there was always camaraderie among the low level employees, much more so than middle/upper because those people were stressed to hell and had a lot more demands put on them to really enjoy each other's company. I guess "alienation" now means "someone else here is getting something more than I am, so I feel oh so alone because it's not an equal pay utopian paradise".

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Better to be dead than red.

>>137990805
But he hated Marxist scum

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>>137985018

> eliminates the exploitation and alienation of the worker

Just ask Gulag survivors how much they enjoyed not being exploited and alienated.

They lived such wonderful lives. Full of work, injuries and death. Meals sometimes too!

I heard Mao was pretty cool too. A lot of people loved his work to death policies.

They were all like:

>ching chong chin I want to die from working and starving, end this exploitation pls ching lol hehe

What am I doing with my life? I just watched a movie in HD 3D after fucking my hot girlfriend and eating till I was full. I could be working and starving right now and ending this exploitation and alienation!

>>137985018
because I am not exploited or alienated.

>>137985018
Its also the only political system worse then fascism.

>>137989503
This is degenerate. Gas yourself. It is the pride of white society that we can internalize the laws and right ways of acting such that we are not constantly niggershining and blowing out our moral codes.

>>137990805
Paris Hilton is actually not talentless, though she did immensely benefit from being beautiful and capitalize greatly on it which most women do at least in the form of attaching to a wealthy man.

She's also also. Tesla was not, did not live in America his whole life, and despite some brilliance don't fall for the meme of him being some kind of God king.

>>137990805

Capitalism allows you to choose what you spend your money on any way you like, so long as it's legal. It also allows you to pass your life's work and accumulated wealth on to your progeny so that they may carry on what you began and continue your success.

Communism ensures nobody gets ahead other than the bureaucrats who make the rules, it is more "unequal" than capitalism as there's no middle class, you have (bureaucrat/politician) or you have not (worker), and dare you voice your opinion over it, you'll find yourself whisked away somewhere that's a lot less fun than where you previously were.

What's really comical is that none of you young commies acknowledge the violence and "vanishings" that happen in every.communist.nation. when people speak out about it not being the perfect system.

I'll take the system that allows me to control my destiny more than the other, and allows me to criticize it if I choose to.

None of you live in commie nations, because if you did, you could get here except without some added work. And then, if your "leaders" knew this was the place you were spending time at, you'd disappear tomorrow.

The only time I've seen communism work was in Dwarf Fortress and that's still only until the nobles arrive.

>>137985018
because I'm not a lazy liberal that is afraid of work

>>137990153
See
>>137985976

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>>137985018
What's wrong are you upset because mommy and daddy want you to get a job and you refused to go to church with them on sunday
Grow up loser

Reminder to sage all shit post

>>137987833
>You don't know how it works.
neither do you.. why not talk to someone who lived it?

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>>137985018
Hello gomrades! X_DDddDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of ebin revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. X_-DDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :-DDDDd
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all FUG. When capitalists run away we win and I gill you all. Eventually the fungtions of state stob and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/hiwherearethefood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/
https://www.islamiggommunism.gom/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :-DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. (BENIS :_DD)

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage 4
Nod real gommunism. Nexzt gountry. problems werent. :-DDdd

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>>137985018
>Why aren't you a communist?
Materialistic ideology for losers who can't accept that sometimes in life you fail because of bad genetics not because of the "evil system". I want an actual marxist to explain to me how a nation like the Netherlands in it's entire history outproduced in goods and intellect the entirety of Africa despite having less resources than the niggers. Explain to me if you believe in equality.

>>137988488
>You earn what you make through the fruits of your labour.
i do that now. so would you if you tried the labour part.

>>137992046
THAG YOU, GOMRADE.

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>>137992574
kek

>>137991546
Shut up Joseph, we both know how you begged to let a girl rail you with a strap-on, you stupid spic.

>>137985018
What's wrong OP? No rebuttal to >>137985976?

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>>137992850
>tfw your entire ideology is destroyed by a freezer selection full of popsicles

>>137985018
go neck yourself.
>>137989286
this.

I lived in a communist country ... on the surface it worked pretty well (probably better that any communist country ever) BUT on the top ware fat fucks enjoying the riches while the workers slaved away. until you eliminate greed from humans ... communism is just an utopia in will not work. At least in capitalism you have a chance in communism only if you're friends or family of the pigs on top.

>>137985018
Tradesmen are the best capitalists ever you dumb cunt. Work for a sub. They pay your apprenticeship. Save money. Get tools. Get heavy equipment. Get experience. Start your own business. Hire younger guys to help you out because you can't be doing manual labour into your old age.

I always laugh at the retarded white beard former hippies working as lollipop ladies (traffic controllers) with their CFEMU (union) stickers on their helmets. Shitcunts.

>>137985018
my grandparents were killed by Communists when they were in the ricefields, they literally dindu nuffin

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>>137985018
Western socialism has been taken over by the bourgeoisie. Remember, it's not the 1%, it is the middle class that votes for wage-suppressing mass immigration, segregates themselves in racially-homogeneous enclaves, leverages the entire public and private economy on usurious capital, prioritizes consumption over productivity, and appropriates public funds to subsidize middle class lifestyles. We live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. We need an ultraconservative patriotic peoples dictatorship with a socialist market economy.

>>137993334
its a personal anecdote and subjective opinion.

>>137994196
Those obviously weren't real commies, real commies don't kill people except the bourgeoisie :^)

>>137994360
Way to skirt the issue and not actually respond

>>137985018
hurr durr communism kills people
durr hurr peoples lives is bigest value

Being a nazi, I respect commies far more than liberals. But of course, I will have to murder them in the forthcoming war.

>>137994326
>the middle class that votes for wage-suppressing mass immigration
I never have.
>segregates themselves in racially-homogeneous enclaves
I used to live in areas where blacks were nearby. Got my car broken into, got mugged, no more. Sticking to your own is human nature, integration is not.
>leverages the entire public and private economy on usurious capital
You talking about kikes now?
>prioritizes consumption over productivity
I expect my workers to be productive just as I am. If they aren't, they get fired. Simple stuff.
>appropriates public funds to subsidize middle class lifestyles
This is rich. The middle class are the ONLY ones who pay taxes now, and are the ones who are giving the most to breaks for the rich and gibs for the poor, not the ones who are benefiting more than anyone else. Where do you find these comical things to put out? Fugg, when I lived in the city, I paid property taxes out the nose to pay for Milwaukee ghetto kids to NOT go to school, and so that Laqueesha could stay home on the dole all day. Still waiting for "my benefit" from what I had to pay, can you explain when I'll get it?

Commies, illogical every single time.

>>137995269
And a crisp high five to you dude. Voice of reason in this thread

>>137985018
Communism doesn't help the working class, at least if this stupid shit ever occurs here i'll get to liberate stupid middle class people of their belongings and housing who wanted this to happen.

>>137994634
It really depends. Trotskykikes deserve an immediate gassing.

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>>137987250
Then how about these commies here? None of these are "cherry picked."

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>>137993170

Not even close fag

>>137985018

I value freedom over enforced "equality".

How do I delete the thread? I am so embarrassed by how badly I got BTFO

>>137985018
>hurrr muh burgeoise
>meanwhile the communist party just replaced them and takes over ALL CONTROL with no possible objection because they have all the power and money

Brainwashed communist supporters are about the dumbest fuckers I have ever met in my life. They don't know their history, they don't know their philosophy, and they don't know how to think critically (which is why you always get the ITS NOT REAL COMMUNISM shit)

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>>137996357

>>137989438
Wait wait... but how many people capitalism killed? Looks like there is much more victims than from communism.

Don't forget to cry of shame on the pillow today.

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>>137996357
Go on IRC and tell a mod to ban you.

>>137995269
The overwhelming pattern of the white middle-class is to be simultaneously self-interested, and nationally self-destructive, even if there are exceptions. This is cuck phenomenon that so many on the right speak of. The bourgeoisie as a whole have no national loyalty. Their patriotism is just individualism with a flag. The middle class will never give up government-backed housing loans which are the primary source of middle-class wealth. And it's the middle class that in producing the blue haired anarchs that want to destroy everything under the banner of socialism. It's middle class intellectuals who shifted Marxism from economics to pure cultural critique. I don't actually think Marxism is the answer in the west, the individualist western mind just uses it for moral posturing. Working-class kids don't join the New Left, they rightly join fascist movements, but their individualist sensibilities destroy fascism as well. The only hope for the west is a fascistic civic nationalism that can absorb some level of racial diversity, but that's not going to happen. Instead the west is going to balkanize into irrelevant, while the eastern socialist market economies continue to grow.

Liberalism cannot survive modernity.

>>137996546
The only people who get killed explicitly because of capitalism are those who died of workplace related causes due to lack or regulation.

Unless you're talking about the commies that were BTFO in war against the U.S. but they don't count.

>>137985018
Too bad "the worker" makes up most of the 80+ million killed by Communism in the 20th century

>>137995672
I am not saying they are off the hook, I am merely talking about respect. All commies must be gassed asap.

>>137985018
Become free from Captialist exploitation then get exploited by the Government. Sign me up
>inb4 anarchy
How many will you have to kill before you have a Utopia?

>>137996634
>Working-class kids don't join the New Left, they rightly join fascist movements,

>hurr it's either one or the other

Please kill yourself you waste of oxygen.

Because i like eat.

>>137991546
>that pic

Wow looks what we have here. Picture of pile of corpses from German death camp mentioned as GULAG again. Your propaganda is really so fucking stupid?

Everyone in this thread:

>Thinking communism = state control

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>>137997650
The closest thing you guys have ever had to success has involved totalitarianism, if communism=/state control then that just means you guys are even more fucked.

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>>137985018

I never cared about the worker; but only about the work.

>>137997203
Libertarianism = balkanization. Anarcho-Capitalism = balkanization. Liberalism -> neoliberal economics -> mass immigration -> balkanization. Conservatism = neoliberal economics -> mass immigraton -> balkanization. Do you realize that? It's certainly a viable option, don't get me wrong. But it means the end of the west as a relevant geopolitical entity.

Please explain if you think there is a classical liberal democratic alternative to balkanization.

>>137986887
>communism lives on

But I thought Trump was literally Hitler and you're out punching real life nazis.

>>137997650
That's what it always turns into you dumb faggot. The communist party ends up controlling everything and even if the party has balanced power it never lasts because all it takes is one man to strongarm it. Communists are so brainwashed, what university do you go to? Who introduced you to the ideology? I'm really curious as to where the brainwashing comes from.

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>>137985018
I consider any white person that unironically endorses communism to be at the status level of a nigger.

>>137998100
>Anarcho-Capitalism = balkanization
Ya can't balkanize if there's no states to separate you...

>>137997947
I'm too tired to explain it in detail, but communism is a classless, stateless, and moneyless society. Marx's conception of history terminates in communism, with capitalism being the preceding form of material organization.

So just wait, "anarcho"-capitalist. Just wait. Communism is inevitable

>>137998100
No it doesn't mean balkanize. This is why I cannot stand you commies, you just outright lie about shit and expect people to eat your words at face value. We have a constitution for this sort of thing, we have regulated free market for this, why the fuck is there an assumption that we must choose one radical idea going forward besides your tactics of divide and conquer?

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>>137991546
This is photo of mass grave from Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in Germany.

http://www.gettyimages.com/event/genocide-and-the-final-solution-185178832#closeup-of-truck-bed-piled-high-w-the-naked-bodies-of-prisoners-who-picture-id50694159

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>>137985018
Because coomies suck dick, that's why.

>Born and raised in the USSR
>Mom is Canadian
>Immigrate to Canada in 1992
>Go back to USSR (Georgia) last year
>Go to a nice village with mom
>Me: Hey, you must have been here often back then.. really nice place
>Mom: No, I couldn't move more than 40km away from our apartment without a special permission, it's my first time here.


That<s why. Communism is a total suppression of human freedom. Gvmt decides where you live, what's your job, where you can go, what you should eat, how you should live.

10/10 prefer flawed capitalism. Would vouch for social democracy if their ranks weren't filled with SJW waiting to apologize for things they haven't done.

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>>137998513
>Communism is inevitable
See, you never actually give a reason that Communism is inevitable, and whenever you say this it sounds like you're just trying to be smug in the face of total defeat. The entire world, barring North Korea, is capitalist, and there is no indication of that changing for a long, long time. Hell, if anything I should be saying that anarcho-capitalism is inevitable, seeing as to how we're actually doing better than you are as of right now.

>>137985018
communism is envy. god is just, inequality is just you loser nigger

>implying communism wasn't invented for the sole purpose of destabilizing the establishment for the sole purpose of replacing those in power.

Enjoy your false delusions of fighting the bourgoise in the benefit of the "working class".

Wake up you dumb cunt, there are no classes and there are no boirgoise, only dumb cattle shilling for slave-ideologies like marxism. The only one getting exploited here is you.

>>137998259
It's not brainwashing if I've actually gone out of my way to read Marx and Engels.

Most of the people on this board think of communism as being equivalent to Stalinism. It's not. Nowhere in any page of Marxist theory is there anything about establishing death squads and a secret police. Communist political philosophy is incredibly varied, and actually a bit of a problem because we leftists can rarely agree on shit.

If you're going to criticize a government that calls itself communist, then at least understand that they're Leninists. It makes a massive difference.

>>137998618
The constitution can be voted away piece by piece as your population genetics shift to differently selected groups, lower IQ, and a rising demand for authoritarian methods to contain competitive racial, ethnic, and religious violence. Deplatforming right wingers is only the first instance of authoritarian stabilization. It will get worse, and the constitution will not survive a 50+% non-white voting population.

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>>137998513
No, you are a retarded nigger.
The only context that any kind of socialism works under is inside of a family unit, because that is the only scenario in which the source of income cares about every other member as much or more than themselves.
Do you seriously expect people to believe that you can put that same system on top of entire nations, let alone multicultural nations in which most of the disparate groups are on some level of hostile to one another?
And it's not like it's been untested; it's been a fucking disaster every single time thus far.

>>137985018
because im not a dumb faggot

Sage goes in the options field

>>137996823
>The only people who get killed explicitly because of capitalism are those who died of workplace

Poor capitalist countries and colonies had famine. Capitalists started many wars. Capitalists was committing genocides. Capitalists was selling drugs worldwide. Is victims of it all not killed by capitalism?

>>137998513
Yes I'm sure that is what they said during the USSR as well.

>Marx's conception of history terminates in communism, with capitalism being the preceding form of material organization.

Explain China then? China did the exact opposite and the only reason they got anywhere is because they built off the blood and tears of their people who were essentially slaves for most of their sad history.

And the problem with this idea is that humans are inherently invested in self interest, anyone who denies this denies their nature. That's truly why every communist regime just ends up with all the military might and money. The military isn't there for the people it's there for the party, and the party is the only way to climb the social ladder. And all the people HAVE to be suppressed for anything to work. Because people saying they don't want to be apart of it or wanting individuality leads to failed communism.

Thus every communist state is failed and then dumbfucks like yourself say HURR NOT REAL COMMUNISM. Failing to understand that any communist regime leads to failed communism because it ISN'T FOR THE PEOPLE. it's for the fucking party.

>>137985018
of course it eliminates exploitation, because it also eliminates the worker I'm the end

>>137987891
Epic meme XD

>>137998816
It's not inevitable. It depends on the ability of market economies to produce technological progression to the point of post or near post-scarcity material conditions. That level of abundance is what is theorized to inevitably lead to Communism, as the basic laws of economics collapse, and human class relationships are no longer coherent.

>>137998934
>Nowhere in any page of Marxist theory is there anything about establishing death squads and a secret police.

But that's what has to happen because for communism to work EVERYONE has to be on board. And you will always have People revolting. That's why every communist regime has to keep the people in check by terror, propoganda, etc. Just look at the great lengths they all go to. You have to understand that man, it's a fucking paradox.

>>137989286
>Zimbabwe failed because of worker ownership
It failed because Robber Mugarbage gave land and assets to military figures and bureaucrats rather than peasants and workers.

>>137998816
North Korea is BY FAR not communist. It's actually a really weird combination of fascism and monarchism.

The reason we Marxists say that "communism is inevitable" is because for Marx, history itself is unified by a distinct pattern according to material (economic) organizations. Human history began with the tribe, then progressed to slave and patrician, then feudalism, and with the advent of the Industrial Revolution, progressed to capitalism. Communism will arrive naturally when the material conditions are correct.

>>137990805

Tesla was a brilliant engineer and a talented scientist, but he was a total failure at managing money and he could not read people for his life. As such people that employed him constantly fleeced him, and he never managed to make too much money on any of his ideas.

All I know about Paris is that she has an amazing blowjob technique.

>>137999066
I have a feeling you think "socialism" = welfare state. That's wrong.

>>137999006
It would survive if we didn't have People trying to subvert the population. America isn't being pushed towards radicalism organically, it's being forced there by quiet whispers and puppeteering at play. But there aren't enough of either side, the Nazi sympathizers are miniscule and so is the opposite in comparison to normal sane Americans. You fools are brainwashed at every level.

>>137996546
>but how many people capitalism killed?

You won't know, because communists will attribute everything as being "Death by capitalism".

If someone falls off a cliff while not paying attention, they'll blame it on a factory owner a thousand miles away because, well, capitalism kills.

A worthless argument overall.

>>137999489
lol peasants and workers are stupid. imagine low iq peasants running anything.

>>137991752
>communism is more unequal than capitalism
Depends which two cases you're comparing.

>>137999423
I think that's what has to happen if you think communism can be forced. This is why, as an anarchist, I'm incredibly skeptical of Leninism.

I am communist, which is why I work a blue collar job and bitch about rich white cunts that hijacked the communist party with their stupid identity politics. I'm not a "black and white" communist, as in I think utopian communism is downright retarded, but I think that corporations need to pay their fair share,identity politics need to be eliminated from government (pure meritocracy, no race/sex identity when selection for schools/hiring) and state funding should be pulled from those who can work but refuse to, and from anyone going after worthless degrees, with additional state funding going toward practical degrees that we have a hard time finding candidates for (hvac, industrial machine mechanic, etc.)

>waking up the next morning and nothing you see is your own
>living and praying for mercy from the State which can do away with you and no repercussions for yourself
Communism isn't some utopia that Humans aren't good enough for, Communism is hell on earth. Just look at its results.

Пoтoмy чтo кoммyнизм - дepьмo пoлнoe и бoльшoй oбмaн, мoя cтpaнa пocтpaдaлa oт нeгo и я cчитaю чтo вce кoммyниcты дoлжны быть ликвидиpoвaны.

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>>137986020

>>137999754
>You won't know, because communists will attribute everything as being "Death by capitalism".

I asked this question because as i can see here capitalist propaganda attributing everything as being "death by communism" and counting crazy numbers like 100 million deaths in GULAG.

If people who died in communist countries during wars and disasters is a "victims of communism" why then peoples died in capitalist countries from same reasons is not "victims of capitalism"?

>>138000097
How did you learn about communism?

>>137999489

It failed due to a combination of things, but my point remains proven, just because you may have worked in the fields does NOT mean you know how to run a farm.

That has always been the case - the underclass believes it to be more valuable and capable than it actually is, and if it gets the chance to take things over, it inevitably fails miserably and leaves everything in ruin.

I don't pretend to know how to code a new iPhone app, therefore, I wouldn't try to take over a company who did such things because I'd cause it to fail. Now, give me a retail outlet, and I can make magic happen because I know my capabilities and have proven successful in that arena many times.

When you allow your ego to dictate your importance, you will fail because you lack the competency and capability. This is why the machinist who seizes the tool & die manufacturing company will see it perish in his hands.

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>>137986032

>>137985018
saged
fake and gay
ignore this alt-left faggot. if seen irl kill it
alt-left deserves to be burned alive
goodnite left-side

>>138000205
Cтpaннo, пoчeмy тoгдa пpи кoммyниcтaх нaceлeниe pocлo, a пpи кaпитaлиcтaх нaceлeниe ceгoдня вымиpaeт? Пoчeмy ты нe хoчeшь ликвидиpoвaть вceх кaпитaлиcтoв дo тoгo, кaк пocлeдний pyccкий yмpeт, нaпpимep?

>>137985018
Which ever one eliminates the exploitation and alienation of western values by the marxists.

>>138000280

When you're starved out in famine due to shitty decisions by your leadership, the death tally can be directly attributed to the actions and ideology that lead to it.

When you just say "I think capitalism killed those people", it's pure conjecture. I've yet to see someone actually break down the whole "here's how many people capitalism has killed and it's 6 GORILLION" because, I'm guessing, it's just an arbitrary number pulled from a hat that sounded neat for recruitment but has no basis in reality.

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Nazis watch out

These hardened proles are coming to take your stuff

>>137993784
Someone gimme a quick rundown on this image please

communism has NEVER been implemented into this world, only socialism ran by communist parties, you can't be sure it even works.

>>138000280
Who dies of starvation by the multi-millions in Capitalism?

>>137991546
> holocaust didn't happen
> gulags did

>>137999423
>But that's what has to happen because for communism to work EVERYONE has to be on board. And you will always have People revolting. That's why every communist regime has to keep the people in check by terror, propoganda, etc. Just look at the great lengths they all go to. You have to understand that man, it's a fucking paradox.
Post-Stalinist Eastern Bloc regimes didn't have terror or mass murder. There was repression but it wasn't uniquely widespread or pervasive like it was in 1930s Russia. Non-Leninist socialist states, like Seychelles, didn't have such repression at all.

Communism is theft.

It takes the hard-earned capital of one set of individuals and gives it to another through force.

>>138000097
> state funding should be pulled from those who can work but refuse to
how are you gonna prevent people from just like, i dunno, injuring themselves so they dont have to work? like those cubans that give themselves aids so they get sent to containment hotels with their friends

>>137999783
They know how to farm a hell of a lot better than a suit in the capital does.

>>137989972
That's my point. I get paid well for the work I do. I'm an actual blue collar worker and my "evil capitalist" employer is helping me get to white collar tier.

I ask what you do because I doubt you're an actual laborer/worker. You're probably a liberal arts student or a barista.

>>138000472

I stand corrected, Soviet communism did make some men, but that was by having them attend "sports school" as soon as their strengths were identified, and they spent their entire lives being put to perform one task as best as humanly possible. And doping, lots and lots of doping.

For them, creating robotic humans who existed for one purpose (to bring home a medal and glory for the motherland) was done for pure nationalism and bragging rights, at the expense of the people who were enlisted for the task with no choice.

If these people were happy, those such as Naim Suleymanoglu would not have defected at their first opportunity.

>>137999750
The subverters come almost entirely from the white middle class, and the non-white underclass. They are a hybridization of progressivism and cultural marxists. Their being used to bring about neoliberal internationalism, which has many similarities to socialism, but it ultimately controlled by capital. The Hybrid Leftists are helping institute a mini United Nations system for the whole west, in which the multiracial masses will be a human labor farm for international capital to maximize economic efficiency. I certainly think classical liberal democratic republicanism is better than such a system. My contention is that liberal democracy is to blame for the trajectory towards that dystopia in the first place.

I'm simply saying that what you see in China right now, and the less well defined alternative being developed in Russia, is preferable to the unnamed horror that awaits the West if it stays on its current trajectory.

>>137987845
So why did you need the CIA to fight communism, if we are such failures ?

>>137985018

Obligatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyxWFWNROk

Communism is NOT beautiful idea but flawed in practice. It is a terrible idea and mediocre in practice at best.

>>138000586
>When you're starved out in famine due to shitty decisions by your leadership, the death tally can be directly attributed to the actions and ideology that lead to it.

If people died from famine this is always says about real problems in economic system of the country and shitty decisions of leadership. Most famines today happening in capitalist countries as example.

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>>137985018
Because Communism is babbys first political ideology. It is full of holes and contradictions that Communists refuse to solve. Or rather they cannot solve.

What Communism boils down to at it's core, and this is a conclusion I drew after numerous conversations with Communists, is that they want a style of government akin to colonial era United States. Basically Communists have spent their entire existence as a political ideology trying to invent terms and half assed ideas to get a democratic republic where they are cisshet white men who run the show.

You are all greedy, self obsessed "intellectuals" who wear a thin mask of altrusim that even you don't fully believe. I encourage you to actually attempt a revolution right now so I can have the pleasure of killing you in the streets like the subhumans you are.

>>138000987

>communists declare war against western ideals
>communists are against us in all regards
>communists send infiltrators to undermine American ideals from the inside
>communists point missiles at the USA

Gee, I wonder why we wanted to eradicate it?

But, it all worked out in the end, Western degeneracy helped bring most of it down, once a bunch of Yugoslavians heard their first Sex Pistols song and tried their first Big Mac, it was all over.

>>138000951
Are you a National Bolshevik, or an actual communist?

> believing in cultural Marxism
> communist

You've got to pick one.

"It's not real socialism!"

"socialism hasn't been tried!"


Obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSbRo99MiEM

>>138000722
Checked.

>>138000851
obviously such a thing is a case-by-case basis, and I'm sure people obviously injuring themselves will end up unable to work without any kind of benefits.

>>138000321
growing up, I'm not sure exactly when tbqh. My dad was an old school hippie that was drafted and sent to vietnam, with severe hearing loss and shrapnel stuck in him. I probably heard about it from him.

>>138001179

Please explain these conversations you had with us communists, because I'm 90% certain you're talking out your ass.

>>138000734
As example multi-million deaths from famines in British India and other coloines.

>>137985018
>Why aren't you a communist?
I am, hello comrade.

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>>137985691
>against assad and for us-armed k*rds
>claims to be a true communist
lel, look at this western social democrat

>>138001159

>dying because communism prioritized your health and well-being by your "value" and was not equal, with resources being diverted to those who were more equal than you were
>dying because your social safety net let you die in the streets even though you were supposed to get "free" care for all, but the party leaders needed it more than you did
>dying because you dared to say the wrong thing out loud and it was against the party
>dying because the party blames its internal failures on the West as the reason why things are falling apart
>dying because you drink 2 liters of vodka each day to dull the pain of barely being alive and having no opportunity to change anything

>>137985018
I don't care about the workers.

Will communism bring forth a white ethno state?

>>138001237
So, the "worst of society", as you said, managed to be a real threat ? How do you explain this ?

>>138001159
>most famines today happening in capitalist countries as example
You better source that shit nig

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>>138000494
goodnite tidy whitey

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>>138000280
>100mil dead in gulag
cold war propaganda is the origin of fake news lmao

>>138000951
>I'm simply saying that what you see in China right now, and the less well defined alternative being developed in Russia, is preferable to the unnamed horror that awaits the West if it stays on its current trajectory.

Well no shit, China and Russia already went through their worst phases. And even now China has little individual freedom, more than it ever did but still little.

Also why do you support communism if you know the horrors?

>>138001595
There would be no need for an ethno state under communism, no state or states would exist. However I wouldn't see a problem with people from certain ethnic groups sticking together, it wouldn't be a problem.

>>138000951
>multiracial masses will be a human labor farm for international capital to maximize economic efficiency

haha love that phrasing

>>138001602
(((you know how)))

>>138001389
I suggest you read some theory. A lot of the stuff you mentioned in one your posts sounds more like a weird mix of social democracy and libertarianism.

>>138001159
Hahahahahha communists just outright lie when faced with the truth it's so fucking rich, but mostly just spooky

>>138001748
I don't want non-whites.
If communism is against that, then I have to say no.

>>137987833
not an argument

>>137999301
That's weak ass accelerationism family
The dialectic is not a prophecy

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>>138001365
>socialists believe in stealing from people

>>138001602
>So, the "worst of society", as you said, managed to be a real threat?
Nukes and ideology that is bent on destroying the west is a threat whether it comes from a strong nation like Russia, or a shit-tier walled-off fuckfest like NK. Makes no difference, a threat is a threat, and one thing's for sure, the commies were exceptional at subversion. Look where we are here today - in many ways, the commies did win the cold war.

The communists fucked us up big-time, but collapsed in the process of waiting for it to happen. If the US was as shitty degenerate in 1980 as it is now, the soviets could have come here without resistance and walked all over us in a heartbeat. Too bad for them, their plans took too long to hatch and the kikes co-opted it to their advantage.

>Why aren't you a communist?
My parents loved me.

>>138001949
>he who does work shall eat one potato every 4 weeks

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>>138001454
I would be glad to.

When I pressed the Communists in your little general how they would go about resource management (a core concept of Communism mind you) they came back with bullshit like saying pure democracy could solve it. They even admitted it would be inefficient. When I asked who would arbitrate disputes between communities in a Communist society they replied "the confederation". When I asked what would they do if, by their own admission, they could not resolve a disagreement efficiently enough and it became an armed conflict? They told me the "confederate forces" would step in, they would even step in to stop a village from democratically voting to leave Communism.

A confederation and a national guard. You lot may claim to want a stateless and classless society but by the answers I got from your comrades that is an outright lie.

No matter how many times I question that core ideal of Communism I get the same answers, if I am answered at all (your lot are intellectual cowards on par with the literal Nazis on this board)

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>>138001949
>he thinks "seizing the means" isn't theft

>>138001297
French intellectuals did attempt revisionist theorizing in the 1960's that reconceptualized the nature of class. As a result, intended or not, western academics became dominated by implicit but increasingly crypto-Marxist perspectives that were able to influence or be influence by (who conquered whom is debatable) progressive liberal politics, leading to today's New Left. I don't care what you call it.

I'm a revisionist too in that I accept the current theoretical consensus in China, but I don't think it can be reproduced in the West at this point.

>>137985018
Because anyone who subscribes to a failed ideology from the 1930's is a tryhard unoriginal historycuck and they all deserve to be lined up and shot.

That being said, hitler did nothing wrong.

>>138001802
Yeah, pretty much, which is why I said I'm not a black and white communist. I've always identified well with the libertarians, but with a hatred of corporations. (so not so well with them.)

>>137985691
I prefer socialism... national socialism.

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>>138001365
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5axVunzQSA

>>138001794
Capitalists are gud bois, dindu nuffin.

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>what is red terror?

>>138001902
Not necessarily - Nazbol offers the best of both worlds.

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SAY NO TO COMMUNISM

SAY NO TO COLLECTIVISM

SAY NO TO MARXISM

>>138001902
Yeah , well you've got no choice in the matter because communism is where we are heading.

>>138002099
(((Capitalists)))

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>>137985018
YEAH OKAY MATE, fucking nigger

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>>138002136

>>138001945
Yes, I'm an accelerationist, and I've chosen to live in China. I don't believe in the inevitability of post-scarcity, only that Communism is not possible without an abundance of wealth. Whether it's possible or not, the primary stage of socialism cannot be bypassed. That's a conclusion based on an empirical analysis of the failures of the 20th century.

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friendly reminder that it's 2017 and the Chinese Communist Party is still killing people for their organs.

pic definitely related

>>138002016
These are either anarchists, ultras or larping liberals, all of whom are more excited by the ideal of communism than they are interested in critically engaging with the actual work of party-building.

>>137985018
Why won't you kike shills fuck off with your snake oil fucking system. I'm not a coommunist because I disagree with every fundamental assertion it makes. Fuck you, fuck "equality" and fuck having society hobble along because it cuts back the potential of the individual in favour of catering for the "oppressed" weak minority

>>137985018
You know how I know you aren't an adult?
You haven't learn that most things in life and human nature itself is paradoxical. You try to create heaven on earth, you get hell instead.
You know how I know you live in the suburbs and never had anything remotely bad/difficult happen to you and you're just upset at daddy for not buying you a sports car 16?
You think communism is a viable political ideology that can be implemented in the meat-space with ACTUAL HUMAN BEINGS and things will go peachy, if only everyone buys into it and never devolves into corruption or greed...uhh...ok buddy.

>>138002080
>my perfect version of communism has never been tried

lol real commies would have put you in a gulag for that. Neck yourself.

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>what are killing fields?

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>>138002213

He also was paranoid as fuck and built 200,000 bunkers across Albania for no apparent reason. Nice priorities pal

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>>138002046
>he thinks expropriating surplus value produced by the worker isn't theft

>>138002368
Get a load of this lumpen prole

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>>138002046
>capitalists owning means when they don't use it
>not theft

No system designed by humans to manage humans has any hope of success.

>>137985018
>Why aren't you a communist? You know its the only political system that eliminates the exploitation and alienation of the worker right?
Last time was enough, thank you.

>>138001567
>dying
>dying
>dying

When USSR was ended we have increased mortality rate, decreased birth rate and got irreversible mass extinction here in Russia. So in comparsion between communism and capitalism in my country communism is much better because of lower mortality attribute and other demographic parameters.

>>138002492
>he thinks he gets to decide how successful people get to spend their money

>>138001970
Funny how you avoid the point : if, as you said, capitalism is efficient and communism is for failures, communism can't be a threat.
If, as you said later, communism is a threat, I see two solutions (not exclusive to each other) :
>Communism is not for human failures
>Capitalism don't work that good

>>138002445
I'm more of a commie-lite. I understand things work pretty well the way they are, I just want the ultra-rich doing more to help society at large. I don't want a revolution or for a one party state or for workers unions controlling everything.

>>138002492
>he uses tired memes that assume all business and industry operates exactly the same way based on the exploitation fairytale concept

Nope.

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>what is sendero luminoso?

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Friendly reminder that Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge rounded people up as "intellectuals" just because they wore glasses. Oh, and they died.

>>138002487
>for no apparent reason
There was a very real threat of military action from the USSR for their ideological break with the Soviets. It didn't end up being worth shit in the end, but the initial drive was based on what appeared to be a legitimate need for self defense.

>>138002731
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct5aJRUqUv4

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>>138002365
>the ideal of communism
Communism is idealism. It forsakes all practicality for lofty ideals that can only be achieved if we as a species achieve immortality and evolve into a hive mind akin the bees,

>Stateless
>Classless
>Moneyless
Come the fuck on you have to be either 5 years old our high out of your mind to think any of these are even remotely achievable.

>>138002510
>because in communism, you only make as much as you need and there is never excess and nobody has ever made a penny of profit under such a glorious system
>because everything that isn't split 100% evenly among all is theft

WEW LAD.

>>138002740
yeah, they're now cocaine producers

>>138001617
Are you living in the barrel or what? What region is mostly striked by famine today? Africa. What system dominating in Africa? Capitalism. This is fucking simple.

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>what is the holodomor?

>>138002731

200,000 bunkers? really?

So you and I will meet up

>>138002694
It's not a question of spending - it's a question of the right to acquire and horde to begin with.

>>138002743
Khmer Rouge was not acknowledged as a socialist revolution by any of the socialist states of the twentieth century, nor any living Marxist today. It was a luddite peasant uprising that had to be put down by socialist Vietnam.

>>138002487
bunkers are a good defensive option for mountainous countries

switzerland did the same thing

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>>137985018
It de facto amounts do forced egalitarianism by a totalitarian state. It also de facto results in forced destruction of national/racial/culture identity, and iconoclasm.

>inb4: "but muh books written by kikes!"

>>137985018
Because I don't need the government to tell me I'm actually exploited even though I like my job. Collectivism is a mental illness.

>>138002715
Not avoidance, mostly just that I'm occasionally struggling to figure out what strange points some of you are making.

There is no flawless system. I accept and admit it. To do otherwise is foolish. However, to believe that a system that has collapsed over and over in many nations where those who lived under it for many years detest it once it is done is inherently superior to other flawed systems that have allowed other nations to thrive and prosper for centuries is disingenuous and lazy.

>>138001869
And where is your argument about i am not right? Capitalism killing poor blackies in Africa right now wake up.

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>>137985018
because I'm not retarded

>>138002686
>When USSR was ended we have increased mortality rate

Well, the USSR did break up, did it not? Already meager resources were spread thinner than ever with people who were simply trying to find a way to make things work once again.

As always, if communism was so lovely, why do all but the last few nations abandon it time and time again?

>>138002804
That's the thing though - infrastructure currently already supports production at a surplus. It is simply a question of displacing (((those))) who would seek to naturalise the myth that capital congeals on the basis of merit.
The capacity for social mobility on the scale that the (((capitalists))) suggest is what's not attainable.

>>137985018
I want the worker to be exploited?

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>>137985018

Because it has always failed, with misery, mass deaths and violations of human rights.

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>>138002877

what a dumb bastard

>>138002080
So then what makes you call yourself a communist?

>>138002881
>holodomor

THAT WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM GUISE!!!

>>138003083
If liberal democracy collapses everywhere from North America, to Australia, to Western Europe this century, will you accept a similar diagnosis for liberal democracy?

>>137985018
Because it otherwise sucks ass

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Support or form your local anticommunist action

They time for debate is over

>>137991174
It's exploitation because if you don't have a job you starve to death. It's an uneven negotiation.

Alienation is the state of the worker losing touch with his humanity due to rote, unfulfilling labor.

>>138002881
Worst famine strike during communism led to same demographic losses like one year of Yeltsin rule.

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>>138002881
a meme

>>138002964
>the right to acquire and horde to begin with.
this just in, all animals who store food for the winter are FASCISTS and must be EXPUNGED.

>>138003205
>As always, if communism was so lovely, why do all but the last few nations abandon it time and time again?

Inb4 bullshit answer to this

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Self defense is the only offense

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>>138003181
I mean, you say that, but

I am done bothering with debating commies desu.

Two kinds of commies: Blissful retards or nefarious intellectuals. Pick which one you are and get in the helicopter.

>>137985018
check out a book called Four Futures, which describes the four options for the future given technological automation will be coming for most of our jobs

>>138003274
Notice how nobody in the thread advocating for communism has actually denied that any of the AES states were not in fact comminist in intent?

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>>138002733
>exploitation fairytale concept
Explain to us how you create useful goods or services without work. Protip : you can't.
Then, show us an actual business (not a scam), creating goods or services, where employees are paid more than the value of their production.
>Muh investment
Ok, show us a company whose stockholders spend all their payouts in new investments.

>>138003275
>If liberal democracy collapses everywhere from North America, to Australia, to Western Europe this century, will you accept a similar diagnosis for liberal democracy?

Sure, however, there is that pesky word you had to use multiple times in your statement -

"IF"

So, IF it happens, then we shall see. But, let's say that IF that does happen, it will just prove once and for all that until we submit to our AI robot overlords, we will continue to collapse every system we have ever devised because humans ruin everything they touch due to ego and greed.

>>137985018
>You know its the only political system that eliminates the exploitation and alienation of the worker right?

Why should I give a shit?

>>138003211
It's not a matter of economics it's a matter of nature. Even if we were to achieve post scarcity we would still need currency of some form as time itself would still be a finite resource. As long as currency exists an individual will invariably find a way to amass more than others and thus become part of a different class. Once a part of a different class nothing stops this individual from using this influence to establish rules to their favor, IE a corrupt state.

All of these things tie into each other and you cannot stop them. I can understand the Communist ideal to banish greed from humanity but unless you attack the (((source))) and the sin itself you will never make any meaningful progress. All you will do, and we saw this in every attempt at Communism, is shuffle in new elites and enhance suffering.

>>137985018
Because I want the ideology that won the cold war.

>>138003374
>It's exploitation because if you don't have a job you starve to death.

Explain the 100 million in the USA who do not work and why they have not all starved to death. Please, enlighten me.

>Alienation is the state of the worker losing touch with his humanity due to rote, unfulfilling labor.
Since when in all of recorded history has man in any culture or ideology been free of mind-numbing work? Never. It's pure fantasy that pushes UBI-level retardedness because while nobody WANTS to do mundane work, we all must do it at times.

I don't like mowing my lawn, but that is my task once every week or two. However, because I live in a capitalist society, I can pay someone else to do it if I have the will and the resources. In communist nations, I don't see that as being the same option, eh?

>>138003646
You don't think the Right Wing in the West has made any good arguments for the unsustainability of current western systems? And considering that it's only happening in liberal western democracies, are you willing to admit that mass dysgenic immigration is a FEATURE of liberal democracy?

>>138003374
As opposed to communism where you starve to death even with a job?

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Reposting
Materialistic ideology for losers who can't accept that sometimes in life you fail because of bad genetics not because of the "evil system". I want an actual marxist to explain to me how a nation like the Netherlands in it's entire history outproduced in goods and intellect the entirety of Africa despite having less resources than the niggers. Explain to me if you believe in equality.

>>138003649
I doubt I'll get through to a fascist, but if you have to work to survive, you're also being exploited by the capitalist class and alienated from the product of your labor.

>>138003374
That's not alienation as Marx described it. Alienation is the process by which the diffuse nature of automated production alienates the worker from the end-product of his labour by degrees - as labor is distributed broadly, and dependent on the infrastructure of the bourgeoisie, the worker is thus displaced from the material truth of his exploitation.
Please read capital before arguing as though an authority.

>>138003924
I'm self-employed you nigger.

>>138003646
Are you sure counting the failures (of capitalism as well as of communism) is enough ? Seems to me that there's some difference between failing from internal causes, loosing a war, failong because of subversion, and I surely forgot some other causes.

>>138003252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHGRuKqvU7o

>>138003913
I'm a Marxist and I don't believe in the material equality of individuals nor the material equality of different genetic populations. It's not empirically supported. I FULLY embrace materialism. ALL material conditions have to be considered when discussing their corresponding effects on economic relationships.

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>>138003349

its everyones duty to exterminate c*mmunists

>>138004015
Do you employ other people?

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>be my grandpa living in cuba
>dropped out of school at age 12 cuz his parents died
>hustles his ass off
>gets rich
>finds a company that sells medicine
>sells medicine
>owns a t shirt business as well
>buys three properties, one in havana, one in pinar del rio and one in oriente province
>marries grandmother
>she goes to university of havana
>meets fidel castro
>thinks he's genius
>they have class together
>be 1950s
>grandma loves fidel's ideas
>grandpa symapthetic to his education for all because of his dropping out at age 12
>support revolution but still like fulgencio batista
>fidel goes full chimp out and kills the whole government and makes batista flee
>fidel starts executing random businessmen
>my grandpa's associates shot in head
>fidel sends his goons to take my grandpa's properties
>socializedhealthcare.jpg
>grandpa out of a job now
>fidel ends my grandpa's small scale businesses
>equality.png
>grandparents gtfo cuba escape to jamaica
>dad is born
>mfw i am jamaican because of communism

yea fuck this shitty ideology

>>137985018
"The disabling argument in these kinds of debates is actually pretty simple and stumps the so called American Marxist/Communist, (what they actually are is probably more akin to Anarcho-syndicalist, notice the reference to Catalonia) every time. In a true free market capitalist system, that of the Libertarian, Voluntaryist, Minarchist, Anarcho-capitalist lean, you are free to develop, and adopt any communal lifestyle, any collectives, or co-ops, any worker run factories (as long as you aren't stealing them from others), unions etc. All of their utopian ideals can manifest within this framework, and can compete in the market place of ideas for what is most appealing to individuals. However, free, sovereign individuals who willfully choose free market capitalism are not afforded the same luxury in their ideology. They are tamped down. Exterminated. Forced to convert at another groups behest. You can not claim to have a humanistic foundation if your ideology is based upon the notion of determinism, and force. The "starving kids" argument is a red herring too, because no system to date has been historically more successful at reducing global poverty than the free market."

>>138003205
>Already meager resources were spread thinner

Say that to our billionaires. Resources was just "privatized" by new capitalists and other people push to die because of fall of medicine system, growth of criminal and alcoholism.

>As always, if communism was so lovely, why do all but the last few nations abandon it time and time again?

Because communists was failed with solving of elites degradation problem. Guess who was those capitalists who let millions die and say after: "there is not a problem all those dead people just not fit into the Market"? Those new elites was just a communist elites who became capitalists because this is more profitable to be billionaire than just serving people.

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>>137985018
Because its a failed system that leads to hell and starvation. Why do the have to put fences around communist countrys to keep people from leaving?

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>>137985018
kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself

>>137987010
>workers unite
>statue of a man that never worked and is a filthy bourgeois

>>138003634
>Explain to us how you create useful goods or services without work.
Nobody ever said this, so you're making things up now. However, what we did say is that in capitalism, you can refuse a job because it does not meet your qualifications for fair compensation, a luxury not afforded in communism.

If the "guaranteed work and equality" of communism were true, there would have been no starvation and there would have been a massive glorious middle class that comprised the bulk of the nation. Instead, there was famine, bread lines, poverty, destitution and death.

>Then, show us an actual business (not a scam), creating goods or services, where employees are paid more than the value of their production.

Impossible because it's unsustainable. If you spend more than you take in, you collapse and fail. It's exactly what communism has done over and over but of course, none of it was "real communism", right?

>Ok, show us a company whose stockholders spend all their payouts in new investments.
Implying that there's no such things as a private company where a single owner or group of owners risked their life's savings to form a company is the only way you can make your argument work. I have 5 employees and no stockholders, as do a hundred thousand other American companies. But sure, we're all massive conglomerates when it suits your failed narrative like this, eh?

Nobody has been able to prove any existing communist utopia - because it did not exist and never will.

>>138003384
It's not a question of "people having more money and being mean and not sharing"
It's a question of utility being disregarded because somehow the decadent excess of the (((bourgeoisie))) is more important to you than solidarity with the white working classes, and your own countrymen whom the current economic base has damned to degeneracy through exclusion from the dignity afforded by committing ones labor to a greater ideal.

>>137985018
>Why aren't you a communist?
Because in the past it has always ended up with a few elite that live fat and nice and the rest working to support them

Also if the government and the people own all ideas and inventions there is very little reason to innovate

>>137985018
retarded amerishits are all brainwashed and don't understand what political systems are and just go "MUH CAPTILAISM" while living in a socialist oligarchy

>>137985018
Where do I apply to be a KGB agent or Stasi police officer so I can brutally silence any worker who speaks up against communism?

>>138004405
>Because in the past it has always ended up with a few elite that live fat and nice and the rest working to support them
How can an AMERICAN unironicaly say this

>>138004304
Bourgeois? Hardly. Marx spent the majority of his life in poverty and running from the authorities.

>>138004047
communism requires a populace with strong moral foundation, everyone agreeing to the terms of it, everyone being forced into pseudo "equality" (Because equality is a myth, you retard.). All with a massive dose of hope that nobody tries to organize a larger mafia or authoritarian group to take power because theres no fucking government. Oh, sorry, the government is just among the people! Lets just give aunt jenna and her autistic sons rifles to fight off the food mafias and drug gangs.

Communism at its best requires people to be okay with never excelling in life. To be content with what they have. To pretend that thriving is the exact same as surviving by the skin of your teeth. It is not. It never will be. It goes against human nature and the very law of the jungle. Fuck off retard, and get a life.

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Hippity Hoppity.
Get off my Property.

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>>138003505

>>138004472
I identify as an anarchist 95% of the time, but my tendency switches to hardline Stalinist whenever I read some of the ignorant shit posted on this board.

>>138004499
"communism requires a populace with strong moral foundation, everyone agreeing to the terms of it"

This is a pretty big issue that I also point out in libertarianism. It's naive.

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>>138004559

>>138003877
>You don't think the Right Wing in the West has made any good arguments for the unsustainability of current western systems? And considering that it's only happening in liberal western democracies, are you willing to admit that mass dysgenic immigration is a FEATURE of liberal democracy?

Mass immigration is a failure, and I've never denied this. However, it's not inherent to capitalism, and is a factor of when those at the top allow their greed to consume the middle and lower class' opportunity to advance.

So, once again, no system is perfect because people ruin everything they touch regardless of ideology. But, nowhere is it said that capitalism cannot exist without imported labor, rather, it is simply an exploitation (term applying this time) of the greed of those at the top using power to gain more finance at the expense of others.

Nobody said capitalism is perfect, but still, it has worked better than communism. When someone comes up with a better plan, I'll be open to hearing it, but going backward aka communism is not an option.

>>138004499
t. never thought for himself and all his anti-communist points are as deep as a puddle

>>138004559
Hey anon don't blame me, it's just a fact that those types of jobs are created when communism takes over. Early bird gets the worm hey?

>>138004047

Well, since you were talking at the level of complete collapse, that's all that's worthy of discussion. You can't keep moving the goalpost over and over and stay credible.

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>>138004679

>>138004330
>the petit bourgeois thinks his present success inoculates him from being subsumed by capital