How can one unironically be a communist after reading this?

If you have some time on your hands, I would definitely recommend reading this book. It totally opened my eyes about communism.

>>137921426
By being a full tankie. "The Kulaks deserved it" kind of tankie.

It's interesting to note how the socialist radicals under Lenin were taking the exact same tactics as the alt left is using today - shaming people, assaulting peaceful protesters, re-writing history - and serves as an excellent example of what the future will look like if we continue down the path of cultural marxism.

>>137921696
Are there alot of commies in Austria?

>>137921426
>>137921517
I'd say I'm about 1/10th in, so far it's very repetitive. Does it get more interesting or can I expect more of the same? I feel like I'm in a gulag just reading it.

>>137921914
Nobody likes Russian commies.

By Murrican standards we're all commies but actual commies are like 5 %.

>>137921426
Communists do not read anything except communist literature, and it trains them to see every sensible argument against communism as evil propaganda.

That's the thing with Marxism as a whole: The core of the ideology is that it can never be wrong. It sets up its own alternative world history, its own bogus philosophical system, and then posits that everything can only be discussed in the context of this.

Marxism is a death cult. The worst the world has ever seen.

The book is a compelling read - and totally BTFO'd the marxist academia when it came out. Before the Gulag Archipelago, they claimed that the brutality of the USSR was simply an aberration of communism, under Stalin. In this book, it becomes clear that it was in fact under Lenin that these brutal foundations were laid.

>>137921426
That wasn't really Communism, it was Stalinism. It's different to true Communism like crony capitalism isn't real capitalism. Really Communism hasn't yet been implemented.

>>137921426
Still better fucking poor comunist country for 50 years than cucked and weak West .... living in so callled country flooded by niggers. I would even live in plastic bag if it means i will have my comunist ethnostate.

>>137921993
I actually found that Part I was quite dry - but if you're into the actual specifics and details like I am, I don't mind. There are more anecdotes and personal stories that come later on.

Think of it as an investment. Part I lays down the foundation for everything else; once you have that foundation you can move onto better material. If you want an easy read though, just skip Part 1 and move on to Part 2.

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>>137922342

Capitalism is measured in degrees of economic freedom. No one does that with communism, because it never works out right.

>>137922688
And under crony capitalism you're economically free to get fuck in the ass.

>>137921696
so basically full retards

>>137922077
It also continued under Khrushchev. I just finished it yesterday.

>>137922688
Tfw you become a slave for mr shekelberg working 16 hours a day in a factory and die at 25. Really makes me think why communism was even thought up.

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>>137922342
>muh communism hasn't been tried.
yeah okay

>>137922342
>BUT IT WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM

>>137921426
Anothr great work of his

200 year togheter

https://thechosenites.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/200-years-together.pdf

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>>137922071
For them reading Marx is the ultimate redpill experience. That's how they feel it. They see the truth that nobody else can see because Marx has opened their eyes.

>>137923169
Communism was thought up in response to the Tsarist Russia, not a capitalist country. And also, your example doesn't exist in modern day mixed market free economies. If you don't like working for Mr. Shekelburg, you can start your own business.

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>>137922342

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>>137922342
like pottery

>>137921426
I need a good quote from this book, i'm trying to redpill a friend about communism.
Can you hit me up leaf?

>>137923202
>>137923423
Are you illiterate or just dumb? Stalinism isn't Communism.

>>137921426
If so why nazis and their commie brethren still exist here?

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>>137922396
so go to Cuba, Vietnam, china, or NK, you cuck, no ones stopping you.

>>137921426
>people died boo hoo
im not a communist but how is what youre saying here any different than muh hollercauster

>>137922342
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>137922342
Wrong, this book specifically outplayed dumbasses like you making excuses and analyzed communism from LENIN, not STALIN, just as a fuck you.

>>137923895
The brutalities, starvations, rigged trials, all started under Lenin, within months of the socialist takeover.

The end goal of leninism is stated to be stalinism.

>>137923654
Was pretty real in japan like 30 years ago. Depends where economies are heading. Wasn't it for a heavily industrialized nation exactly unlike Russia?

>>137921426
I Unironically want to kill communists now after reading this, great book

>>137924090
I'm """sure""" it does, and I'm """sure""" its not just CIA propaganda.

>>137923839
>Hastiness and superficiality are the psychic diseases of the 20th century, and more than anywhere else this disease is reflected in the press.
>For us in Russia, communism is a dead dog, while, for many people in the West, it is still a living lion.
>I have spent all my life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed. But a society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy of man either.

>>137923895
It was a close an attempt to communism possible with hundreds of millions of people. 'the reason it wasn't full communism was because communism is so against human nature it's impossible to sustain.

>>137921426
>he doesn't know that it's fiction

>>137923839

In 1944, investigator, proud of his faultless logic [...] told Babitsh: "Investigation and the process are merely juridical figaration, that can't change your destiny, which has been determined before. If it is necessary to shoot you, you'll be shot, even if you're completely innocent."

>tfw commie logic
Part 1, Gulag ARchipelago

>>137924001
Why should i? My country is still comunist.Second strongest party in next elections will be commies with 15% they want leave neomarxist EU and leave imperialistic NATO while removing every muzzie from Asia and Africa.

>>137924594
>communism is so against human nature
WRONG! The Jews did a number on you didn't they. Communism works with human nature, if it wasn't for the US constantly trying to destabilize the USSR (see also Venezuela and Cuba) we would have at least one fully fledged communist state.

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"you better forget about the holodomor right now goy!"

>>137923839
In his instructions on the use of Red Terror, the Chekist M. I. Latsis wrote: "In the interrogation do not seek evidence and proof that the person accused acted in word or deed against Soviet power. The first questions should be: What is his class, what is his origin, what is his education and upbringing? [There is your Sapropelite Committee for you!] These are the questions which must determine the fate of the accused."

>>137924284
Let's not forget that Lenin and Stalin perpetrated a bank robbery with an insane death toll. To finance socialism, of course. Because somehow an ideology about not using money needs lots of money.

I saw the same with commies in my city. They charged admission for a party at their squat, and when someone objected, they said "the lawyer needs to be paid too".

That's how quickly it all falls apart. Apparently there are no socialist lawyers.

>>137922342
Hahaha. Thank you for the laugh

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>>137923839
THIS

>>137922342
>tried and tested dozens of times, always devolved into brutal oppression
>i-it's mere coincidence guys, we should really give it another shot
Fuck right off, commie scum.

>>137921426
>How can one unironically be a communist after reading this?
They can if they were communists before and think it's all jewish lies

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>>137925004
>"muh utopian society can't handle competition"
You atheistic fucks are supposed to believe in evolution and survival of the fittest. Guess what? Your ideology failed, it lost, it was unfit and unable to compete in the jungle of political philosophy and was devoured by a better system.

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>>137923895
>muh communism isn't communism

>>137925677
It isn't my fault you filthy Slav shits can't implement fucking ANY political system without it devolving into some brutal tyranny. It's not the system, it's you. You're shitty people.

>>137925004
Yes, Venezuela is totally suffering from "muh ebil imperialist pig" when the USA is practically the only nation buying its sulfur ridden-oil cause they went the trouble to refine it. Kek

Wasn't this book just a pack of lies? C'mon. Hate communism for the impoverishing wealth-centralizing shit it actually is. The real brutality is in the way communism raises the party on high while it forces people into such hopeless depths of impoverished despair that they end up literally eating each other. The gulags are not even the real problem.

>>137925381
>>137923839

Nineteen twenty-one was the most difficult of all the four winters of the Civil War; nothing was left
for fuel, and trains simply couldn't get to the next station; and there were cold and famine in the
capitals, and a wave of strikes in the factories- strikes which, incidentally, have been completely
wiped out of our history books by now. Who was to blame? That was a famous question: Who is to
blame?

Well, obviously, not the Over- All Leadership. And not even the local leadership. That was
important. If the "comrades who were often brought in from outside" — i.e., the Communist leaders
— did not have a correct grasp of the business at hand, then it was the engineers, or spetsy, who were
supposed to "outline for them the correct approach to the problem." And this meant that "it was not
the leaders who were to blame. . . . Those who had worked out the calculations were to blame, those
who had re- figured the calculations, those who had calculated the plan" — which consisted of how
to produce food and heat with zeros. Those to blame weren't the ones who compelled but the ones
who calculated! If the planning turned out to be inflated, the spetsy were the ones to blame. Because
the figures did not jibe, "this was the fault of the spetsy, not of the Council of Labor and Defense"
and "not even of the responsible men in charge of Glavtop — the Main Fuels Committee."

If there was no coal, firewood, or petroleum, it was because the spetsy had "brought about a mixed-
up, chaotic situation." And it was their own fault that they hadn't resisted the urgent telephonograms
from Rykov and the government — and had issued and allotted fuels outside the scope of the plan.

The spetsy were to blame for everything. But the proletarian court was not merciless with them.

>>137926213
The US has been involved in an ideological war against Communism since the end of WW2, of course they're still launching wars against it.

>>137926414
Their sentences were lenient. Of course, an inner hostility to those cursed spetsy remains in
proletarian hearts — but one can't get along without them; every- thing goes to rack and ruin. And the
tribunal doesn't persecute them, and Krylenko even says that from 1920 on "there is no question of
any sabotage." The spetsy are to blame, but not out of malice on their part; it's simply because they
are inept; they aren't able to do any better; under capitalism, they hadn't learned to work, or else they
were simply egotists and bribe-takers.

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>>137922342
>If I was the Supreme Leader it all would have gone right! :DDD

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How can one unironically be a natsoc after reading this?

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Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead are also very good. Socialists are the same emotional manipulators today that they were 100 years ago.

>>137921426
>how can one still be a communist after seeing X?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4

Go to 1:12:45.

>>137926420
Ok, then explain how so. Venezuela is objectively fucked since late 2014 when oil prices went from 100 a barrel to 45. How can you blame USA for it, when it is the country that bothers to buy their shit-oil in the first place?

>>137921426
HI Jordan, love your work.

>>137926555
It is at least partly the slavs and greedy anglos that are the problem. If you put literally any other group of people in charge, it would work.

>>137925381
>>137923839

At the end of the Civil War, and as its natural consequence, an unprecedented famine developed in
the Volga area. They give it only two lines in the official histories because it doesn't add a very
ornamental touch to the wreaths of the victors in that war. But the famine existed nonetheless — to
the point of cannibalism, to the point at which parents ate their own children — such a famine as even
Russia had never known, even in the Time of Troubles in the early seventeenth century. (Because at
that time, as the historians testify, unthreshed ricks of grain survived intact beneath the snow and ice
for several years.) Just one film about famine might throw a new light on everything we saw and
everything we know about the Revolution and the Civil War. But there are no films and no novels
and no statistical re- search — the effort is to forget it. It does not embellish. Besides, we have come
to blame the kulaks as the cause of every famine — and just who were the kulaks in the midst of such
collective death? V. G. Korolenko, in his Letters to Lunacharsky (which, despite Lunacharsky's
promise, were never officially published in the Soviet Union), explains to us Russia's total, epidemic
descent into famine and destitution.

It was the result of productivity having been reduced to zero (the working hands were all carrying
guns) and the result, also, of the peasants' utter lack of trust and hope that even the smallest part of
the harvest might be left for them. Yes, and someday someone will also count up those many
carloads of food supplies rolling on and on for many, many months to Imperial Germany, under the
terms of the peace treaty of Brest-Litovsk — from a Russia which had been deprived of a protesting
voice, from the very provinces where famine would strike — so that Germany could fight to the end
in the West.

>>137921426
anyone read his book on jews

>>137926880
>How can you blame USA for it
>US puts pressure on OPEC to reduce oil prices
>OPEC open the flood gates
>Oil price falls off a clif
From there the Anglo-american capitalist system fuck them over.

>>137926986
It was the result of productivity having been reduced to zero (the working hands were all carrying
guns) and the result, also, of the peasants' utter lack of trust and hope that even the smallest part of
the harvest might be left for them. Yes, and someday someone will also count up those many
carloads of food supplies rolling on and on for many, many months to Imperial Germany, under the
terms of the peace treaty of Brest-Litovsk — from a Russia which had been deprived of a protesting
voice, from the very provinces where famine would strike — so that Germany could fight to the end
in the West.

There was a direct, immediate chain of cause and effect. The Volga peasants had to eat their children
because we were so impatient about putting up with the Constituent Assembly.

But political genius lies in extracting success even from the people's ruin. A brilliant idea was bom:
after all, three billiard balls can be pocketed with one shot. So now let the priests feed the Volga
region! They are Christians. They are generous!

1. If they refuse, we will blame the whole famine on them and destroy the church.

2. If they agree, we will clean out the churches.

3. In either case, we will replenish our stocks of foreign ex- change and precious metals.

Yes, and the idea was probably inspired by the actions of the church itself. As Patriarch Tikhon
himself had testified, back in August, 1921, at the beginning of the famine, the church had created
diocesan and all-Russian committees for aid to the starv- ing and had begun to collect funds.

>>137926105
Don't forget the Chinese, Vietnamese, the Koreans, Cambodians, Venezuelans, the East Germans etc. Surely, they were all run by "Slav shits", isn't that true, you fucking dolt?

>>137926652
Because it details exactly what Jews do to destroy a host country, and therefore justifies physical removal if the nation is to survive?

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>>137921426
Spurdo teaching you how to be a commie (OC """infographic""")

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Who so wishes to avoid famine must compensate the farmers. Not from our benevolence, but indeed from our own self-interest do we see that farmers are paid well for their labors.

>>137927393
top kek

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>>137921426

I too recommend reading the book. Here's the TLDR though.

>>137927341
>East Germans
Run by Slav shits
>The rest
Have to try and run a communist system in a capitalist world. North Korea was fine until the USSR collapsed. Vietnam was fine until the US invaded. Cambodia was massively overrated. Meanwhile in Indonesia, the US backed capitalists killed 3 million people.

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>>137921426
Don't forget about this gem, lads. First printed uncensored in English, 2009. Prior to that, it was heavily censored during its original publication in the CCCP, ca. 1965--I think. Another gulag tale, with a rich dramatis personae--including a couple chapters from the perspective of Stalin--and framed within the extended metaphor of specialists being in the "first circle" of the gulag Hell, referring to Dante's first part of the Divine Comedy. Also, lots of anti-commie shit in there.

>>137927232
US does not control OPEC. US simply upgraded its technology to dig for oil in places where it was impossible before (shale oil) due to the opportunity cost, since oil was so high (as a result of OPEC operating as a cartel)

>>137927732
Thanks!

>>137927992
>US does not control OPEC
Well done you fucking moron. The US has massive geopolitical power, they don't need to control OPEC to exert pressure on them.

>>137928169
Then how did oil rise to 150 a barrel in the first place? How does that happen if the USA is so almighty?

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>>137922342

>>137928350
>How does that happen if the USA is so almighty?
It happened because the USA wanted it to happen. It's like a pump and dump.

>>137921426
Alright, gonna borrow this from my grandpa. Hope it remains a good read with no redpill necessary.

>>137921993
I dropped it because it was extremely boring and repetitive.

>>137928564
So if oil price suddenly rises, USA is to blame. If oil prices suddenly drop, USA is to blame.
This is how easy it shows that you commies are retarded. Unable to do any type of self-criticism on your dumb ideology, you choose to blame it on mysterious foreign influence.

>>137926652
>How can one unironically be a natsoc after reading this?
Actually good point

>>137921426
You're still not getting it. Commies want an excuse to steal. Morality is irrelevant.

>>137927384
have you read it?

>>137929053
The US is still locked in it's ideological war
>The US puts pressure on OPEC to force the price of oil up
>OPEC restricts sales
>Price rises
>Speculation ensues
>At the right time the US puts pressure on OPEC to cause the price of oil to drop
>OPEC opens the flood gates
>Price drops
>Capitalists fuck the country.
This isn't a hard concept, you fucking retard capitalist.

>>137928564
You're fucking retarded.

>western imperialists use their power and money to secure dirt cheap oil coming from the ME
>ME nations become independent and get angered over Israel, decide to make an oil cartel
>prices skyrocket
>US puts more effort into developing its own oil industry
>US eventually has enough production to have a surplus and begin exporting its oil
>OPEC cartel no longer has a monopoly, prices drop significantly due to competition

Of course no communist has any grasp of history, geopolitics, or basic economics.

>>137921993
Part II and the end of Part III are based

>>137929163
>amerifat
>reading before jumping to conclusions
Have you learned nothing from being here?

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>>137929053
Do you see the insane mental gymnastics these nutjobs have to go to justify their shit tier ideology?

You could debate this fuck all day and probably BTFO of all his ideas, and he will back to it tomorrow. His mind is so broken and fucked that they only thing that will snap him out of it at this point is the day he finds himself in a communist gulag, the same day Comrade Abdul puts a bullet in his skull.

>>137929676
Pissbaby Europoor mad that their empires all fell apart.

>>137922688
>capitalism is """economic freedom"""

>>137930079
My country NEVER had an empire.

>>137929684
>Cuckitalists actually believe that
But then again the Jews have ruined Americans. You can't be objective.

>>137924284
Nowhere near on the scale or extent seen with Stalin though. Lenin wasn't as paranoid or utterly ruthless as Stalin.

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>>137930079
More often than not euro flags are just Canadians who want to seem vaguely euro sophisticated whilst writing horrendous posts. He's probably jerking off a moose as we speak.

>>137927796
>the US backed capitalists killed 3 million people
And Maoist China killed about 40 million people based on conservative estimates, what's your fucking point? That capitalists have blood on their hands too? Sure they do, but it doesn't even come close to the severity and scale of Communist atrocities. And it's not mere coincidence, from Lenin to Trotsky, all prominent Communist figures supported terrorism and political purging as a means to ushering in the collectivist utopia, it wasn't one bad apple.

>>137926555
t. Jordan Peterson

>>137930561
Your response to my factual and objective history of the situation is "wow you actually believe that"

Nice argument. When you realize that an unfalsifiable claim is invalid your convictions will come crashing down. Your view of history is completely theoretical and unsubstantiated, yet the mountains of evidence against it are dismissed as pure "propaganda" from your boogeyman of choice with no critical inquiry using your patently fallacious "logic".

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>>137930748
Only because he didn't live long enough to wrack up his desired body count. He still managed to engineer the Russian famine of 1921–22 which killed 5,000,000 Russian's, forcing some to resort to cannibalism. The first of many such famines to come.

>>137931171
Communism didn't kill those people. Famine and counter-revolutionaries killed those people.

>>137931298
Keep believing what the Jews told you.

>>137922342
Communism "hasn't been implemented" because it -can't- be implemented. Communism fails to take into account that operating socially in a dominance hierarchy is fundamentally linked to our biology and evolutionary history. Maintenance of dominance hierarchies are regulated by serotenergic systems that literally predate the existence of trees.

>>137923895
>the only right guy in the whole board

>>137931511
This has to be satire. Good day.

>>137931511
You believe that bullshit, that's why you are a stupid commie /socialist scum

>>137931390
>Lenin engineered the famine of 1921-22
Yep he made sure to destroy all infrastructure and pay the clouds not to rain.
Even non-communist historians acknowledge that the massive drought and incredibly destructive civil war were important factors in the famine.

>>137932027
>stupid
>Says the ancap
Wew

>>137931732
Nice argument.

>>137931602
>operating socially in a dominance hierarchy is fundamentally linked to our biology and evolutionary history. Maintenance of dominance hierarchies are regulated by serotenergic systems that literally predate the existence of trees.
Did this come to you on an LSD trip?

>>137931511
Yeah, Muslims don't kill people. Hand granades and trucks kill people!

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>>137932116
kek
I think it had more to do with the bolsheviks seizing all the peasants food and seeds to grow future crops
YFW

>>137932242
Go look up serotonin systems' role in the maintenance of dominance hierarchies, specifically among lobsters.

>>137930561

Of course not, the EU is not a country, it's a poor joke.

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How can one unironically be a communist after reading this?

>>137932242
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1991/5/6/crustaceans-struggle-for-dominance-pmost-people/

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>>137922342
>That wasn't really Communism
this is bait. you are peterson and you are trying to make sure everyone hates communists.

I hate communism too but we don't need to troll to prove that its wrong. I guess you are just having fun.

I refuse to believe you are a real logical person that still has audacity to offer the classic no true scotsman fallacy MUH WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM

>>137922071
Sounds like islam setting up same way.

>>137925004

>accuses others of being coaxed by Jews
>peddling a literally through and through Jewish ideology

really activates my almonds

>>137931511
>counter-revolutionaries killed those people
Is this an elaborate ruse or are you actually retarded? The labor camps and prisons were run by Communists, that's where most people perished, many of them under charges of "counter-revolutionary activity".
Also, what caused those famines? Could it be, that forced collectivization, the systematic purging of skilled, wealthy farmers and completely botched industrialization played a part?

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>>137921426
Don't you know real communism has never been tried? The alt-left will show us what real communism is.

>>137934633
>The labor camps and prisons were run by Communists
Where else are you supposed to put criminals if not prison?
>Could it be, that forced collectivization
No it was droughts.

>>137921426
read it.

an important work.

>>137934414
Actually the core message of Islam is collectivisation across races and cultures under one religion (the Umma). Islam was a reaction to the increasing professionalisation of the Christian Church in the 7th century and its power was a transfer away from Priests and Clergymen back to people. Culturally it also transferred all beauty and love away from the constituent cultures and only allowed it to be expressed within Islam (no colour only in mosques, no music only in prayer etc.)
This is one of the reasons why the Soviets came down hard on any Islamic sentiment in the Central Asian Republics because it was very easy to transition from serving Socialism to serving Allah (who through Mohammed willed socialism).

tl;dr Islam is Marxist at its core

>>137921426
If you're seeking out and reading this book chances are you're already strongly anti-communist.

>>137926695


While reading Atlas Shrugged I kept flipping to the front of the book to confirm it wasn't revised. They acted just like every leftist baby boomer I have ever met.

>>137926695
Yup, especially Atlas Shrugged. It was recommended to me in a commie general thread back around the beginning of the year. I still want to thank the Anon who posted that quote about money.

But all this aside, if anybody wants to know what the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" implies, just read the part about the Twentieth Century Motor Company.

https://youtu.be/KCmJUobwKQk

>>137924947
You're completely retarded. Your country has the 16th freest economy in the world.

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>>137926652
>How can one unironically be a natsoc after reading this?
>therefore gulag archipelago is irrelevant

>is it possible to against both communism and natsoc?

>>137922077
I seem to recall starvation and cannibalism during the initial "redistribution of farm equipment".

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>>137935121
>droughts
Even if that was true, it's funny how countries with lots of economic freedom only have like 10 people die at most during droughts. It's almost as if a more decentralized "free" economy can react to sudden changes in supply and demand, where as central planning can't.

>>137934414
That's not a new insight. Sensible people from Tocqueville to von Mises to Belloc to Voegelin have made the link between islam and socialism.

>>137921696
Most commies are like that unironically

>>137930006
And that's why you only debate hardcore commies, if you have an audience of fence-sitters. After hearing your arguments, abd seeing how the commie either answers with a fallacy, that's eaaily refuted, changes the subject, or just ignores what you said, they'll be more than likely to join your side. I'm speaking from experience.

>>137931511
Those famines didn't cause themselves, you know.

>>137936592
>only have like 10 people die at most during droughts
Meanwhile in reality:
>Irish potato famine: 1 million people died, ~23% of the population
>Indian famine of 1896-1900: 19 million dead
And the UK was the freest economy that has ever existed.

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>>137922342

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>>137927796

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>>137935121
Great bait, Nigel.

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>>137937442
>A potato blight destroyed a countries food source but capitalism is obviously at fault. Did capitalism caused the black death and Hurricane Katrina too?
>East India Company raised taxes and caused people to starve and that's apparently the fault of a capitalist market economy too.