what IS communism and why do you hate it so much? can someone

I thought communism was good but I came here and everyone hates it so I do too. It's a bad idea.

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>>137908490
oh wait wrong pic

>>137908490
>>137908613

literally not an argument. can you try contributing to my thread instead of shitting it up with gook cartoons? thanks

>>137908225
Communism is where the intellectuals from the wealthy echelons come and jerk each other off. They pretend they are doing meaningful work but in reality all they're doing is writing texts inaccessible to the so called 'working class' they wish to empower.

In essence communism is 100 different splinter groups with their own ideologies so there is no one communistic system.

>>137909022

so why is it collectively hated by /pol/

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>>137908225
>communism = slavery

its simple math.

>>137908225
The state seizes all means of production and promises to eventually turn it over to the people
All give for equal outcomes
Which is fucking retarded because you can't expect humans to all be equally productive because of genetic and cultural differences, let alone the quality of work now means nothing because everyone gets paid the same.

Communism works fine for bees. It might even work for a very small and homogeneous community. But for a national government, it is literally against human nature.

>>137909398

this is more or less the kind of response i was looking for, thanks

>>137908225
Communism has never not resulted in a significant number of deaths directly related to preserving the economy. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did just to keep everyone living in the same level of poverty.

bump

why the fuck is my thread not getting to page 1

>>137908225
Communism is the abolition of all private property.

Absolutely anything and everything you possess is nothing more than a resource which would be better utilized under the direction of an educated technocratic elite, as opposed to an ignorant 'owner' of private property. That includes your life, your mind, your labor, and your fucking bodies. If some useless eaters have to die to supply Rockfeller, Cheney and Soros with new hearts, than so be it.

>>137908225
It's this boogeyman that the republicans keep speaking of. I think it has something to do with obamacare and college tuitions

>>137910287

i except a better answer out of someone with a commie flag, faggot

>>137910390
I expect your mom to come over and suck my dick any second now

>>137908613
isnt that what we have right now in germany ?

I can describe it in a single word:

Hunger.

>>137909764
Actually, Stalin killed slightly fewer people than Hitler (around ten million) while turning an agrarian peasant society into a heavily industrialized one, though some living standards like housing size were lower than in the West by the end of his reign.

>>137908225
100 million dead

>>137908225
Commies destoryed my grandmas family and murdered her parents, my gramps lost his sanity mowing down gooks in Korea and on top of that the ideology is garbage tier idealism.

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more like why not

>>137910894
BS, it became shit under gorbachev.

>>137908225
Everyone is supposed to be "equal" under communism but it never works out because someone always either gets cheated or people naturally rise above the others.

Also, one of the biggest communist principles is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" but if you really think about that, it means that those with a lot of needs force others to work even more. That's unfair to those workers because they don't get to enjoy any of the fruits of their labor even if those with said needs are incapable of producing anything to benefit the whole.

Communism fails to provide incentives for workers and citizens to work hard and be productive.

And the people who think gays, trannies, and the mentally and physically disabled would get better treatment under communism is a huge joke. They would be the first to die because they are too much of a burden for everyone else to deal with.

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>society begins
>people trade freely

>imagine a village
>one villager is exceedingly good at collecting and processing coconuts
>begins to build machines by himself that aid him in his coconut collection/processing
>even gets one of the villagers to operate the machine in exchange for some coconut
>other villagers are terrible at collecting coconuts
>some even starve
>villagers ask Coconutman to share all the coconuts he's collected, since he has more than he would ever need
>coconut man says they are his coconuts and he will only give coconuts if you trade something.
>other villagers get angry and kill the coconut man and split the coconuts he has amongst everyone
>slowly the coconuts run out
>everybody starves like before since coconutman is dead

thats communism

>>137908225
>why work when I'll still the same gubment cheese
>everybody does it
>breadlines

>>137911149
Bullshit numbers you got there, Mao and stalin combined killed 101 million people. Pic is even worse then the bullshit black book of communism

>>137911801
And the machines dissappear?

>>137908225
Basically ignore everything about humanity and focus solely on class divide, declare the upper class as inherently evil and force a system in which everybody shares everything with each other regardless of contribution.

That's not even the real reason why people hate communism, the actual reason is you must be so obsessed with it to the point of infecting everything with the ideology so you can force a revolutionary overthrow.

So basically nothing in life can be fun, it must all lead to a violent revolution. That shit is inevitably annoying as fuck as you can see with modern day Antifa.

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Imagine not liking communism after 30+ years of this.

>>137910559
Anon, his mom ís secret police

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>>137908225
>Communism is the motherly family instinct for distribution applied to the entire nation.
>It's such a great idea that it has to be enforced at gunpoint.
>In communism, walls are built to keep people from escaping.
>In capitalism, we build them to keep barbarians out.

>>137908225
-Abolish private property, still has personal property.
-Dictatorship of the proletariat, democracy included
-worker ownership over the means of production
-collective effort
-inevitable

>>137908225
It's an interesting idea that sounds great at first glance. People share and give equally to everyone so that no one is poor and no one is rich. Everyone has equal economic and social status. Sounds good.

But, overall people are driven by greed, not a desire to work together and share. Communism is sharing. If you work the hardest for gain, you will instead be forced to give away your excess goods for the sake of equality. So why work harder?

Not to mention it requires extreme government control and strips away freedoms.

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>>137912516

continuation:
>the village coconut man taught to use machine begins becoming new coconut man
>villagers once again see "greedy coconutman with all his coconuts"
>coconutman2 sees what happened to coconutman1
>destroys capital and leaves

alternative:
>no villager will touch the machine since they will become new coconutman
>why work when they see you will have your coconuts taken away
>villagers simply wait until new coconutman arrives to steal from him

>>137911231
Things declined rapidly in the late 80s and went totally to shit in the 90s.

>>137912278
Since he was the only one that knows how to operate them (We are talking theoretically right?)
They are now useless.

>>137908225
It's an internationalist totalitarian ideology based on class-based scapegoating. There's a lot of theoretical nonsense that attempts to justify this, but it is just another flavor of totalitarianism. Think Nazism but with petty bourgeois and kulaks instead of Jews, and international subversion instead of international conquest.

>>137908225
Its a terrible system which keeps 99% of population in state of cattle without any rights and keeps killing everyone till country collapses and commies are killed themselves by revolutionaries.

I probably should write longer copypasta for these threads, telling how it felt to live in USSR in 1970-1980s. Most people don't realize how much of hellhole it was and how happy we were when it finally collapsed.

>>137913477
They see the new coconutman as a proletariat manager though, that coconutmanager can be democraticly voted away. Productivity is ok

>>137911801

Yeah, that's kind of how I explained communism to my family.

Imagine you had a machine that would just make anything for you. Like a replicator from star trek. How would that help you?

I mean really. You'd think it was really cool. But would it actually improve your life? Would you maybe sit around and become more of an asshole and get bored and fight with your family?

Ok, so imagine communism is like murdering people to get one of those replicators, but it doesn't work that good and then it breaks completely after two years.

That's what communism is.

>>137913692
What, people worked for him, they know how to use the machines

>>137908225

I've spent the last month or two studying Communism.

Here are the basics:

>society progresses economically in stages
>one of those stages requires capitalism
>capitalism requires division of population into classes, ie "toilers" or proletariat and businessmen classes aka the borgeois
>the state exists to oppress the lower classes for the service of the higher classes
>communism says that eventually, we will progress enough and produce enough that capitalism is no longer necessary
>thus the class divide is no longer necessary
>therefore the lower classes should "seize the means of production" aka the factories
>it is literally communist doctrine that there must be a violent overthrow, where the proletariat kills and oppresses the higher classes like the businessmen, church, police,etc
>the state will take over all means of production and the economy will be planned by the state
>to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability
>this means you go to work not for a paycheck, but because of the "common good"
>the government takes responsibility for feeding you
>eventually, the state "withers away" and we are left with a classless, propertyless society where no one has private property and thus no one has more than anyone else

only problem is that every time they try it, the state fails to properly manage the economy and causes massive famines. in the 1920s, farmers were afraid to produce more than they could physically eat themselves lest they be targeted as "hoarders" and killed by angry mobs. so 10 million people starved to death (except for lenin, he died in a mansion because he deserved it)

>>137914017
no one wants to become coconut man

While I'm not saying communism is a good ideology, keep in mind that 99.9% of people who have an opinion on communism have not actually read a single line from Marx.

>>137909309
Because /pol/ is working class and Communism is bad for the working class.

>>137913743
It's even worse than blaming jews because literally anyone could be a bourgeois. It's an eternal boogeyman.

>>137908225
> what IS communism
It's shit wrapped in a Christmas paper

>>137914300

by the way if the part about society eventually "evolving past the need for capitalism" sounds familiar, it's because it's the same argument used to justify Universal Basic Income.

UBI is repackaged communism, nothing more. what you need to ask is, "ok well once i have no job, skills or education because the government feeds me... what happens if the gov hits hard times and can't afford to keep my checks coming?"

you starve. the answer to that question is you starve.

>>137908225
The state owns everything, the state controls everything. Those who govern the state are basically absolute kings.

>>137908225
It's a mental illness, look what it does to society? Sure it's great in concept but only if it is relegated by God, it can never function by man alone.

>>137913288
>>In capitalism, we build them to keep barbarians out.

In capitalism, we build walls to keep the people we're stealing from out.

Fixed it for you.

>>137914351

you can actually learn more about the logical fallacies that fuel communism if you read Engels.

>>137914300
Your the first guy that answers honestly

>>137908225
100 million dead

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>>137914300
>communism fails because the state doesn't manage the economy enough

comrade, do you mean they have not enough bullets to shoot those who don't want to go to work for the "common good?"

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest

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>>137908225
The idea that the resources and means to production should be controlled by all people instead of owned privately. The method of achieving this is violent overthrowing of existing systems as Marxism only views things in relation to power and oppression.

Communists and the ideology itself is to blame for the worst tragedies of the 20th century.

>>137908225
Communism is the idea by Marx of a classless society, no government, no private property of the means of production.
If now you have a lot of shoe companies, with different brands offering different products for different markets, in communism (as Marx saw it) factories would be own by the workers, they would produce in excess and everyone could just go and take shoes as they pleased (only for their needs). In exchange, shoe factory workers would get free products from the other factories (clothes, can food, TVs, etc).
Society wouldn't need a government, because in Marxists philosophy everything bad in human nature comes from being exploited, or have been able to exploit someone.
(Being "exploited" in communist jargon, means being employed. If a capitalist made a profit by selling his house that he paid you to renovate as a contractor, you where exploited because the profits where made by your work)
Therefore, the poor only do crime because the system made them poor, the rich only do crime because the system made them rich, if everyone is equal there would be no crime (or it would be reduced greatly).
Now, to get to that point, Marx thought that society first had to be capitalist, in a highly industrialized country (like Germany or England), then a worked revolution would happen, and they would control the means of production and would have all the political power, then a socialist government would take place in order to transition from state capitalism (government owns the means of production) to true communism.

It's an ideology filled with obvious errors like not understanding how markets work, how mutual beneficial contracts for profit work, etc.
But "''intelectuals"" like it because "they" (shitty writers, shitty painters, conceptual "artists") don't produce anything normal people would consume on their own will, they would starve in a capitalist country if it weren't for "academia" grants.
The market is replaced by bureaucrats.

>>137914977

communism fails because governments can't do anything right. the reason they say "true communism has never been tried" is because theoretically, under a perfect government then maybe it could work.

but the problem is that this is real life. not only do we not have a perfect government, we don't even have GOOD governments. good government is impossible. the founders knew this, why is why we have a system that focuses on the LEAST BAD government.

self-interest is inherent to human nature (as it logically should be), which is why capitalism is the only way you can semi-reliably keep the economy functioning. government is inherently flawed and inherently inefficient. good government is impossible, it is automatically inept.

no government has ever made its people happy or successful. ever. that's what the communists fail to realize.

>>137915424
>>137914300
Now what about national socialism?

>>137914300
sounds good me desu

>>137915760

communism also fails to create a classless society. it abolishes society divided by property and instead divides it by ZEALOTRY, much the same as modern liberalism does.

the most zealous defenders of communism, the ones willing to put bullets in the backs of heads, will always be well fed. the nonbelievers will starve.

when bernie sanders lived in a hippie commune, he got kicked out because he wanted to be rewarded for spouting communist doctrine all day instead of helping with the chores.

communist bureaucrats live in mansions while the peasants starve. that's a class society, but one that recognizes only zealotry.

>>137908225
>what IS communism
Communism is the belief in a society without private property. Basically, everything is owned by the government and resources are fairly dealed out to those who need them - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

The problem is, in order to work it expects people to give up their self-interest. Not only is this impossible beyond a certain extent, but it is also deeply immoral. ALL labour and charity must be voluntary, or else it is not labour but slavery, and is not charity but extortion.

>>137915796

i ordered Mein Kampf last night so once I read it I can work on that. I've still got a little bit of "The State and the Revolution" by Lenin left, he quotes Engels and Marx at length and provides a pretty full picture of communist ideals.

the parallels to modern American liberalism are striking, but not shocking.

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>>137908225
Communism = Bolshevism = Judaism

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>>137914300
>>eventually, the state "withers away"

This always gets me.

>>137915959
>sharing and charity are illegal
>no reason why state would wither away besides guessing about human nature
>you don't own anything, state maintains this
>uncontrolled violent overthrow

There is tons wrong.

>>137914780
Tell that to the Muslim Crusader parasites who literally could not sustain their own civilization without pillaging ours.

>>137910894
You mean about 9 million more than Hitler?

>>137916967
Le epic meme XD

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Is Communism related to Fascism? If so, how?

>>137912516
machine breaks down after 6 months and no one has any idea how to fix it or make a new one because they are retards, which was a given considering they're commies

>>137917124
A lot of memes are true so that's not a very good argument. I bet you don't think mossad did 9/11 either.

It's a totalitarian regime under the guise of """EQUALITY."""" Idiots like it because they think once it's enacted they'll be the top dogs and get the best free shit but will just end up dead or ostracized

>>137916738

yea, the "withers away" aspect is pretty ridiculous. Lenin takes Engels word at face value and simply assumes that this will happen as a natural result of the revolution.

what you have to realize about Lenin is that he would say whatever he had to say to end his sentence with "seize the means of production." He'd tell you the moon was made of cheese if it would help convince you to seize the means of production.

It's basically because he knew once he could get the opening shots of the revolution started, his followers would finally be able to enact rampant cruelty and bloodshed. There is nothing sweet in life than justified cruelty, and simply giving his followers an excuse to let out their inner demons would cause them to revere him as a God.

And after tens of millions of deaths, rapes, and thefts, they do. He was right. Leftists revere the man who justifies their violent impulses.

>>137908225
A system in which the means of production belong to the workers rather than to bourgeoisie.
In theory, should provide much better opportunities for everyone than barebones capitalism, through equal wealth sharing. Since it was developed in the middle 19th century, its basis is contemporary industrial nations, e. g. England (a reminder that workers lived in awful conditions, worse than the farmers, worked 12 hours a day and still didn't have enough money for a suitable life). One of its points was its final form as a planet-wide system; in the early 20th century it came quite close to achieving this goal, with the crises after a wasteful, imperialistic WW1. It turned out that cooperation is less logical than egoism, so both international relations continued between nation states rather than classes, and the system built in war-torn Russia, the first socialist state to exist, became extremely repressive and controlling. All other socialist states were either supported by the USSR and built in its image (bueracracy, direct discource control, repressions) or got crushed by the Americans (Allende's Chile). It's hated here because Cold war memes didn't go anywhere, and the majority of people here are from the US.
tl;dr a supposedly fairer system that contemporary capitalism was; got mangled by reality. pol hates it because american propaganda and obsession with an even less realistic society.

>>137917473
Or the State fixes the price of coconuts, causing market distortions that end up destroying the entire economy.

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>>137914300

Read this comrade

>>137917505

Lenin would have slandered modern liberals as "revisionsts," petty-borguois who embrace communism-lite as a means of furthering their influence over the lower classes. Leftists think of themselves as the intellectual class that Engels called essential to helping the proletariat achieve class consciousness. what they don't realize is that communism usually purges all but the most ardent, zealous followers (Elizabeth Warren will probably be spared but not many others).

the copy pasta about Commisar Jamal and Commisar Cletus comes to mind.

>>137908225
unworkable. unachievable. A unicorn the hunt for which unites the far left.

>>137918140

fucking revisionist.

honestly br0 going to pol to learn about anything is a bad idea especially le scary bad gommies

>>137918285
>Stateless, classless, monelyless society.

>>137910894
Somewhere between 40-60 million people died because of Stalin through executions or starvation

Capitalism is what happens by default in nature. It shouldn't even have a name.
Property is an inevitable natural thing.
Trade is a natural consequence of property.
Markets are a natural consequence of trade.
Banning what happens naturally is expensive.
Price controls fight natural negotiation.
Banning private property requires a totalitarian state, every time. This is why people constantly say 'That wasn't "Real Communism(tm)"'.
They say '"Real Communism(tm)" is anarchist.', but you can't resist Nature without a state.
The protection of property from ownership IS ownership. Do this in a decentralized fashion, and you have the same decentralized ownership of property.
These decentralized property owning collectives would still need to trade with each other, and this brings markets.
Therefore, under actual Communism, total state ownership is the only solution.
"Capitalism" still allows sharing and cooperation, though.
A collective can still exist within a completely lassez-faire market.
Are these advantageous? Let them compete as such. We have the digital know-how to manifest this.
Communism removes all incentives.
Communism is reverse eugenics.

>>137908225
communism removes selfishness by removing the opportunity to be selfish

if some one wants to make art fine. he will not be compensated for it. so nobody shills with art. it is pure but the soviets kinda specifically didnt want art to be a thing so much. its wasteful.

in theory because communism doesnt support religion (because the only reason to have a church is to make money) you end up with less bullshit

russia could have made it work if the west didnt gang up on them. china had more success because they went full on ant colony and didnt need any help which is why the west bribed them with outsourcing

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>>137908225
Social equity.

>>137911801

This is Capitalism.

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>>137918562

>>137908455
this

>>137918323
Communism is shit, Aussie. Stop pretending it isn't.

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>>137917369
Communism is a polar opposite to Fascism.
Communism is based on a theory of Class Conflict while Fascism is based on a theory of Class Collaboration.

>Class Conflict: That hierarchies that exist in nature lead to conflict between the classes and so hierarchies need be done away with.

>Class Collaboration: That hierarchies that exist in nature cannot be effectively done away with and abuse from any position leads to violence and so hierarchies need to be organized better for the benefit of all sides.

Both groups obviously abhor one another. This is why /pol/ gets on about Communists constantly and ANTIFA will speak of horrible groups as exclusively Fascists and supremacists.

>>137917594
Didn't know much about Lenin. Thanks for the info.

>>137910636
Absolutely not.
Instead of taking your food, the govt is taking your civil liberties and gives you gibsmedats to keep you fat and happy, so that you won't revolt against them.

>>137915796
If you mean fascist economy, it varies depending on each individual case.

If you mean strictly Nazism, then it was a mixed economy with populist overtones.
Hitler encouraged private property and industry, but only for Nationals. Tariffs on imported goods where there to encourage consumption of homegrown products. As limiting imports causes scarcity, they had to ration.
They were mostly coming up with shit on the go to appease the public as they saw fit.
I think of Nazi Germany as Venezuela. They had about 10 years of doing OK with government involvement in the economy, but likely would have failed on its own a few more years after that, if they didn't do more capitalist reforms.

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>>137918925
>communism removes selfishness by removing the opportunity to be selfish

How is the state restrained from an opportunity to be selfish?

>>137916472
I was hoping for a clarification. From my understanding capitalism exists and is promoted within NS but there is a bubble of protection placed around it so it always benefits the nation and by extension its identity.

One word

Evil.

Go talk to an ex communist.

>>137919108
Those people die becouse they don't want to work or think to improve their conditions.
No one can help that.
On the other hand communism kills people who were doing just fine with bullet in the head or tortures.

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>>137919108
>implying those numbers weren't much bigger before capitalism caught on

>>137919448
What?
Communism wants to abolish the state.

>can someone please describe it to me in a couple sentences?
No, honestly just read the literature if you want to understand it.
t.non commie

>>137911231
https://youtu.be/-CvQOuNecy4

Khrushchev was a moron.

>>137909361
capitalism isn't, Just KYS

>>137919198
i know very little about gommunism but this thread is p clearly filled with people who have strong opinions about it without knowing much. for e.g. ive seen the private property meme at least once.

>>137919759
Stalin murdered all of the intellectuals.

>>137908225
a stale german meme

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>>137908225
Communism is superior because it leads to the fastest economic growth possible. It also leads to having a clean country (communist countries are never as filthy as say India or Liberia) where everybody is educated so great scientific innovation takes place. In the Soviet Union you were literally paid to attend a university. The problem with communism really deals with finding an appropriate leader. For communism to work and to reap its great rewards, you have to find a great leader. The Soviet Union was blessed to have Stalin and China was blessed to have Mao. This is why those two countries are by far the best success stories for communism. Other communist countries were sadly given leaders who pursued a life of decadence so they failed. The Soviet Union became one of those countries after Stalin died. Idiot Khrushchev and his successors completely dismantled socialism in one state so to avoid collapse they started exporting oil to pay for their expenses. The industry that had been developed in Stalin's time was quickly dismantled or left to rot. Rather than using Soviet oil to run the Soviet machines to export high quality manufactured goods to other countries, idiot Khrushchev and his successors simply sold the oil to other countries. Even now, Russia is still like this. I suppose those 20 million or so Soviets who died in WWII died for nothing because idiotic rulers destroyed what they had fought for. China is lucky to not have had idiotic rulers after Mao, this is why their economy is so massive and why they are doing so well. Mao's policies are very similar to Stalin's policies and China was lucky to be run by Mao and then good successors. China's economy is about 8 trillion a year last time I checked so I can only imagine what the Soviet Union's economy would have been like considering it has more resources and thanks to its smaller population it could have had higher skilled workers who would make even higher quality products

>>137920275
You may argue America is a good example of capitalism but that is simply foolish. America was completely founded upon principles of imperialism (every single square inch of American territory was acquired as a result of imperialistic practices). This indicates America was founded upon thievery. It is easy to grow an economy when you are constantly acquiring new territory, especially from those who are defenceless. Even after America grew to its largest size, most of the land was virgin land. It is easy to grow an economy when you literally have millions of square miles of unpopulated undeveloped land that has a plethora of resources. We must also take into account the very fact slavery played a critical role in shaping America. African slaves worked their entire lives for absolutely no compensation other than bare minimum necessities given to them only to prevent them dying just because farm-work was too laborious for the average American and because the average American could own a slave. It is easy to grow an economy when your agricultural labourers are paid nothing other than the bare minimum necessities. You may then ask why America's economy grew in the 20th century. Remember, Europe experienced two world wars in the 20th century whereas American merely participated in them. The difference is quite clear, Europe was thoroughly devastated whereas America was completely unaffected. It is easy to grow an economy when your country is the only large country with industry that hasn't had any damage to its infrastructure.

>>137920411
This meant everybody was forced to purchase American products and to take American loans because only America could provide those products because America hadn't been devastated by the wars! Now that America's land is not so virgin and now that countries don't have to buy American made products, America is going down the shitter! America's greatness is not a result of just diligent work and perseverance, it is the result of scenarios, scenarios that will not take place in the future, that were directly beneficial to America. Had America not been founded not by principles of imperialism, had America experienced two world wars, and had America not had slavery in its early days, there would be no America or America would be an irrelevant nation!

>>137919004
>FxOk
>Owner of all the food hoards it, tries to 'trade' a vital resource for more capital to make more coconuts to make more capital for himself

>Workers aren't taught how to produce the coconuts, have 0 input on choices on the plantation, therefore learn nothing, cannot compete and still get's paid less than what his labor power was worth (How many coconuts he picked, processed)

CEOs are lazy cunts.

>>137908225
communism is an ideology/movement that attempts to eliminate class antagonism by abolishing private property. Which in most instances is fucking retarded.

>>137919700
No, it can't.
>137918754

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>>137919700
Well no, Communism wants the state to just fade away over time. Until then, how is the people that make up the state able to have their selfishness restrained?

More importantly, if you restrain people's ability to be selfish how do you know they will actually forget selfishness in essence? What makes you seem so sure that selfish is a learned trait? Because if you're wrong, all you did is make everyone slave to a state that will never fade away.

>>137918925
How do you plan on removing money?

>>137918925
>Apple commerce is owned by the apple farm workers
>There's a place this year
>apple production plummets
>Apples are scarce
>I have apple tree in my house
>Planted it years ago, made it grow with my work
>Neighbours trade with me other goods for my apples
>Communist police comes to get me and throw me in the gulag because I was being "selfish"

Communism is shit.
Bureaucracy can't do the job the markets do, that's why it fails.

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>>137909309
Communism is Bolshevism. Bolshevism is forced Judaism. If you haven't noticed pol ain't too keen on them Hebrews. The real problem with communism is that it requires wealth to redistribute. It can only function as a parasite. For instance the us military is essentially functional communism at a first world standard. The number one cost in the US military is actually not the F-35 or any fancy weapons at all. The number one expense is personnel and by a wide margin. Let that sink in for a second. In order to provide the kind of communism you want for 3.5 million people costs the United States close to 16% of our annual budget. Now think that in order to provide that to the rest of the 350M Americans would cost 100x 16% of our budget. I know most burn victims seem to think that we can just print infinity money and no one has to work to get it, but that's how you end up living in new Zimbabwe.

>>137920787
Plague***

>>137920467
>>137920411
>>137920275
Reeks of American college student lmao, every single country that has ever achieved feasible standards of living has been capitalist you absolute dolt.

>>137920614
>More importantly, if you restrain people's ability to be selfish how do you know they will actually forget selfishness in essence? What makes you seem so sure that selfish is a learned trait? Because if you're wrong, all you did is make everyone slave to a state that will never fade away.
Congratulations, you have described every law ever.
There is so much wrong debatable shit in communism, but no one knows nothing about it except the american cultural """"""marxism""""" propaganda
You are a bunch of fools

>>137919641
>Before capitalism caught on
You realize that capitalism was introduced a couple of centuries ago, right? Waaay before Communist Russia.

>>137914300
Never Forget the Kulaks

Deported off their farms, then the commies could farm and staved them. fuckers

>>137921195
>You realize that capitalism was introduced a couple of centuries ago, right? Waaay before Communist Russia.
What? Capitalism has been the natural state of man for thousands of years

>>137921195
Yes, and?

>>137921376
>Kulaks
Yeah, those poor, poor rich farmers who hoarded colossal amounts of food from not just the government, but everyone. They'd be the equivalent of your modern day Walgreens hoarding their stock during a change in government (Russia was very prone to famine throughout history) in order to sell it when the markets had stabilized somewhat. There are markets in Socialism and Capitalism alike.

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>>137908225
Salary is chopped by taxation or through other means, and redistributed to the commonwealth. think of it as a collectivistic economy where the individual can't really get rich, or get ahead. It's popularized by middle-low income people, and will never be supported by middle-high/top income citizens.

In short, if you're poor as fuck, or a useless NEET, a socialist economy is right down your alley. Seriously, earn your money and get off your ass. You should not be carried by the masses if you're a helpless prick. In fact, you deserve to live in your pitiless heap of shit.

>>137921035
You move topics. Again, how is the people that make up the state able to have their selfishness restrained?

>Congratulations, you have described every law ever.

No, laws in most every case don't keep people from doing basic things like deciding their entire economic situation for them down to the food on their plate every night.

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>this thread
/pol/ has become a literal tumblr echo chamber.

>>137918318

the author is a marxist-leninist

>>137921535

Do you even know what feudalism is?

>>137921795
>Yes, and?
And what? Look at the famines in India during the 18th century, look at the Irish under British Rule, look at any colonized country during the beginning of Capitalism after Feudalism and you'll see evidence of Imperialist aggression in order to gain wealth in the capitalist free-for-all, as well as private companies confiscating resources from the natives for their own gain. Ie. The Rubber Plantations in India.

Abolition of private property.

Which means the Communist Party's Chairman and his friends own everything, including you, and can decide to starve you to death.

>>137922616
>Abolition of private property.
My favourite meme.

-Written from my iPhone7

>>137922616
You mean the Ultra-Rich's unnecessary private properties and the property they own that is the means of production.

>>137921535

you think money and markets alone are what defines capitalism?

>>137908225
communism is nothing more than the illogical ramblings of a mentally ill jew

>>137908225
>socialize everything, including the economy
>requires absolute state power to enforce this
>takes the capital and allocation thereof from those who would use it most wisely

>>137922560
Nice cherry-picked examples. If you look at the history of human population growth you'll notice that the exponential growth of the last few centuries coincided with the acceptance of capitalism. Also
>feudal British lords
>capitalist

>>137908490

Good thing the correction came.

That man has a job so he clearly gets to eat as well in a capitalist society.

>>137908744
No :^)

>>137914328
why not, the proleteriat respects their own kind

>>137923653
>Cherry-Picked

Yeah, I should have picked some really shit examples instead, right? Makes sense.

>The acceptance of Capitalism
It's difficult to resist what was already in the blood of the Government, especially of Britan. Socialism is the Criticism of Capitalism, the second it came into effect in Europe after the French Revolution it was regarded by intellectuals to be basically the same as the previous system, except family ties didn't hold you back from a job. Hardly a suitable replacement if the only person you're meant to look out for in a Capitalist Society is yourself.

Socialism is Capitalism's shadow, Capitalism was only 'accepted' because it promised freedom, equality, and fraternity.

Not a whole lot of that in post-feudal Europe.

>>137908744
>gives you a simple graphic that describes it perfectly
HURR WHY AREN'T YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTION

>>137919004

>story about a community seizing means of production from a guy

>thinks this is capitalism

>>137908744
>only give me the answer i want or its not an answer

>>137908225
Real Answer: the belief that that all inequality is a result of a higher group oppressing a lower group, and an attempt to remove all inequality of outcome by forcing those higher to be lower and those lower to be higher. (There are, of course, many more details, but that is the overall structure.)

>>137908613
>Government get's everything
>Government represents the people
>implying the Party State didn't have massive trade unions, industrial and factory committees in order to converse to the proletariat's, as well as having direct democratic participation.


>>137925380
It's not just a simple spectrum of High and Low, it's the High actively and immorally keeping the Low down so they can remain High.

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>>137911801
Alternatively:
>one villager exploits the whole village to produce coconuts mostly for himself
>villagers devise plan:
>1. Kill that villager.
>2. Seize the means of production and let Coconutstalin redistribute resources properly
>3. Villagers learn how to redistribute resources themselves and Coconutstalin becomes obsolete and we achieve real communism
>revolution.png


>Coconutstalin says all villagers must give up their property so Coconutstalin can redistribute them.
>Coconutstalin forces all villagers to work on producing coconuts even though they'll get only a fraction of the coconuts they collect.
>Coconutstalin, being a fallible man, doesn't know how much coconuts the villagers need exactly so he eventually redistributes resources wrongly and villagers inevitably starve
>some villagers don't like giving away their property
>some villagers don't like working just to give everything they produce to community
>some villagers don't like starving
>Coconutstalin sends all of them to gulag
>some try to jump off Coconut trees but Coconutstalin places suicide nets
>some try to flee the village to the another village but Coconutstalin closes borders
>some try to overthrow Coconutstalin but Coconutstalin employs the army and sends them to gulag.


>Coconutstalin starts selling coconuts to neighboring capitalist village
>abuses workers even more in order to keep the coconut price low to maintain competition.
>villagers are no longer exploited by Coconutman
>but now they're exploited by Coconutstalin.
>Stage 3. communism is never achieved.
>the name of the village was China.

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>>137924862
I can't make any sense of your post at all.

>Yeah, I should have picked some really shit examples instead, right?
You kinda did, that's the point.

>the second it came into effect in Europe after the French Revolution
I'm not sure what you're talking about, if by "it" you mean capitalism I think that's the industrial revolution you're thinking of.

>freedom, equality, and fraternity.
>Not a whole lot of that in post-feudal Europe.
wuuuuuut?

>>137926039
>It's not just a simple spectrum of High and Low, it's the High actively and immorally keeping the Low down so they can remain High.
Where does this happen?

>>137908225
Tried this communism, don't recommend

in theory the best economic system where the government provides for the entire populace and there's no money involved
unfortunately human beings do not work this way and the government always ends up getting way too much power and then shit like stalin and current-day china happens

>>137911801
Socialism:
>one villager creates a coconut-processing machine
>engages in free trade with other villages in exchange for some of his coconuts
>eventually he hires people to operate and maintain the machine for him, and they receive some of the coconuts in exchange
>eventually the original coconut man is doing absolutely nothing but still "owns" the coconut machine and receives the lion's share of the coconuts and all traded goods
>his employees realize this and kick him out

>>137908225
Communism is a collective ideology where the life of the individual is less important than the party/commune/ideology.

The regimes with the most people killed are all collectivist and Most of them were communist or aspiring to be communist

>>137926932
Then the machine got broken and "new shared owners" don't give a fuck to fix/buy new one and then suck capitalist free market invisible cock.

>>137923005
Yes, that is what they claim.

>>137926611
>I'm not sure what you're talking about, if by "it" you mean capitalism I think that's the industrial revolution you're thinking of.

No, that's literally the best example of how capitalism came into being as a proper economic and ideological system lmfao

You can see this from the criticism it develops directly after the revolution.

>You kinda did, that's the point.
Except you can't refute them?

>wuuuuuut?
You've excelled yourself.

Just because your Yankee History lessons kept you behind doesn't mean you can't start learning now.


>>137926629
A person needs development before they can achieve, obviously, low wages and the inability to afford basic development tools like college and private schooling, etc.

There's no 'mentality' of being poor or something that's just 'wrong' with their mindset, that's a myth and political issue, used to push pressure on social services so it frees up spending and cuts those services to people.

>>137928135
But don't you see? If the majority owns the means of production, like the farms and the oil fields etc., things would be produced to suit the needs of everyone, not to help ONE person or even twelve Board of Directors fill their pockets.

>>137928191
>No, that's literally the best example of how capitalism came into being as a proper economic and ideological system lmfao
Last I checked the rise of capitalism was a centuries-long process that stemmed from feudal lords gradually relinquishing their economic control over the lands they owned for various reasons.

>You can see this from the criticism it develops directly after the revolution.
Kek, I don't go to Stormfront to research Jewish history.

>Except you can't refute them?
You still didn't refute MY point, which was that they're not exemplary of the trends capitalism creates. I'm not trying to waste time here.

>Just because your Yankee History lessons kept you behind doesn't mean you can't start learning now.
Enlighten me, where did you learn that European society has been less free, equal and brotherly since the fall of feudalism?

>>137908225
The idea of communism is that you should get fruits of your job. Not ((someone else)), just you get 100% of it. Screw lazy subhumans and fuck capitalists, death to parasites.
It does rise a lot of questions in real life but the general idea is solid.

>>137928191
In most western countries it's not that hard to get money to go to university, and I agree with social measures like these to give a chance to everyone and take care of people that really need it. That's far from communism though. You also didn't answer my question.

>>137918562
Nice meme. The only estimates that say that are those from Cold War writers like Robert Conquest. The Great Purge killed 1-2 million by generous estimates, as did the GULAG. The famine of 1932-33 killed about 7 million.

>>137909361
>(((communism)))
>(((capitalism)))

pick neither.

>>137926474
this coconut story has been the best series of posts all day desu

>>137908225
Communism is a system where the government takes everything the people produce keeps most of it for the elites and gives the left overs back to the people. People in a true communist society never get a "paycheck" because their work and effort is owned not by them but by the government and the spoils are the governments to do with as it pleases. In a communist society the government gives out resources based on what it feels the people need and excess is considered evil. This means no luxuries and if you don't work you also don't eat. This also means if you work harder than the next person you aren't given more just because you did so. You worked harder but the government is who decides what you need and what you don't need. You want that new PC? Nope unless the government decides you need it and don't even think you'll get to choose what hardware is in it. Want that new car? Nope unless the government says you need one and it will be a car the government chooses for you. Want to buy a bunch of fancy jewelry? Nope you don't have money because the government gives resources itself you don't own anything of value to purchase anything like jewelry.

In a true capitalist society the government owns nothing except what the people give it in taxes and the people retain the power of their work and effort. In a true capitalist society a person can be successful by providing a product or service that the people demand but they have to do so knowing that others will try to do the same and compete with them. You can buy what you want and live your life as you see fit because your ability to purchase things in your life is dictatedx by the effort you put into working.

Hope this explains things for you.

>>137908225
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

Gueass how that principle would turn out, if applied.
https://youtu.be/KCmJUobwKQk

>>137908225
A revolt against common sense.

>>137919004

It would be capitalism if the coconut man just becomes really, really rich while the rest of the village does not.

When they ask him why he has so much while they dont. He will say: "Because im very good at collecting coconuts and worked very hard. You should be happy that you can support yourself working in my coconut factory."

>>137909022
I'm really liking Anarchist more and more everyday. I don't care much for some shit;
>muh punk rock anarchy lifestyle
>hijacking by identity & intersectionality politics
>some young adults w/ZERO experience working a good trade, knowing true responsibilities, trying to show 'the true way'
But other than that, I'm against authoritative shit, left or right. I've been reading a lot of leddit about attacking banter of 'tankies' N shit. Interesting.

>>137932082
and then he gets a son who inherets everything while not having worked a day in his life.

>>137919635
comunism also kills people bacause they are lazy and dont want to work

>>137920275
For communism to work millions had to be murdered in order to achieve a population of brainless, spineless cattle. I'm guessing you have no 1st hand knowledge of what the cold war was like.
What's it like going through life nursing an acute case of Stockholm Syndrome? From my view I'd rather ride out the Cold War again then live w/ your affliction. I give you a bit of room as it really must be tough to be a kid these day's but not so much that you shouldn't be called out for advocating for a system that had to murder millions just to get it to barely work. Dumb ass!

>>137935617
you can say the same for every ideology. and communism is inevitable, but not the classic socialist/marxist way, but the neo-liberal way and that would be the worst thing you will ever witness

>>137908225
Communally owned means of production. No private property.
Basically, you get money just because you belong to some group. That's why the communists have the saying:
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

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>>137908225

>>137908225

It's the political implementation of the spirit of Cain. Violence born of envy and the shame of ones own failures, and the entitlement to claim what you did not earn. The justification of losers.

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>>137920275
>fastest economic growth possible
Hitler's Germany begs to differ.

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>>137908225
>the state controls everything
>the state pretends to pay you, and you pretend to work

>>137908225
Communists believe that if the government seizes the means of production some how rich people won't have all of the wealth. In reality, when you monopolize the wealth and power in the government the people in the government just hoard it for themselves. Communism sounds good in theory but it is just a fairy tale. It doesn't take into count human greed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A&ab_channel=mearbhrach

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>>137908225
it's ugly, unfit dregs of society that are envious of other people's prosperity. Communism makes no sense in a country like the USA where it's piss easy to attain a middle class status.

seriously though, whenever there are leftists protesting on the news, ever notice how they all look like dirty bums?