We (America) thoroughly defeated the confederates in the Civil

Conferdate states are American

why can't they just move the statue somewhere where people like it?

>>137751931
>Conferdate states are American
I'm thoroughly American and my family is made of generations of Americans, and I don't identify with the Confederacy at all. Why should I? These people seem like nothing but a bunch of traitorous scum

>>137751808

Because even the Romans, Greeks, and Crusaders did it.

Romans allowed those of Punic descent build statues of Hannibal Barca. They didn't scrub his name from the history.

War commemoration.

They fought honorably or bravely regardless of being the enemy... they got a statue.

>>137751808
dumb nigger, then why the fuck do you have British city and town names? Guess what, it's history.

ha they got their asses kicked 150 years ago and morons still cant get over it

>>137751931
Confederacy consisted of Americans, but it was not an American institution. it was an Anti-American institution, one that was defeated. Losers do not get statues.

>>137752788
wrong again, you have monuments to British soldiers that fell. You niggers have zero respect for anything, you need civilising by the whip again

>>137752186
The difference is that Greece and Rome were empires who conquered places that were very culturally and geographically distinct from them and not tearing down cultural institutions of the conquered was the best way they figured to maintain their empires.

This is not the same case as America. The confederacy was a rebellion. You don't get to rebel, lose, and then put up statues of your losers.

With Hannibal, Romans respected the fact that he was a military genius. Statues of him were largely of the "Look at this amazing man that we defeated" variety rather than "We wish this guy would have !" It was a hunting trophy.

>>137752345
These names were largely in place well before the revolutionary war. At that point they weren't even British. You may as well say America should have started speaking a different language too. Shit argument.

>>137753428
> the Declaration of Independence itself prompted the statue's demise. General George Washington ordered the declaration read to his soldiers in New York City on July 9, five days after its signing. The Patriots went wild with joy. That night, some 40 soldiers and sailors tied ropes around the statue and pulled. They broke. More rope was found and the men pulled again. King George and his horse tumbled to the ground, shattering into dozens of glittering pieces

>>137751808
It's funny because idiots like you don't realize that the soldiers and ruling class of the confederacy were spared and statues erected in order to bind the wounds and prevent an insurgency.

Though, perhaps it would have been for the best if the war continued.

>>137755923
So they were basically pacifiers for crybaby losers? Well, they are all dead, so they serve no purpose now.

>>137756798
>spic

No one cares about your input you incompetent indio.

I hope that all the statues get taken down so it incites more violence against leftists.

>>137751931
The Confederacy was literally trying to separate from America. That was the whole point.

>>137757371
From the United States.

Why don't we also tear down any monuments to Native Americans while we're at it since they lost?

Even the dead Germans get memorials.

It's not hard to understand; normal people died fighting in a war, memorials are about remembering and honouring the dead, not celebrating their cause.

>>137751808
Marx and Stallin statues need to come down. Their ideology has been prove wrong over and over. No Ronald McDonald. Hell, every Heisman trophy is blasphemy also.

>>137755350
Shit arguement? You've argued it's about winning and losing when in reality It's a bunch of niggers screaming about 18th century historical monuments on the basis of their feelings but nice try.

>>137755829
You're connecting past emotion with today's relevance, it's history. You still have monuments today to the soldiers so your arguement is shit.

>>137756798
Considering that the union lost much more troops than the south, and that an insurgency can only be quelled with a genocide, binding wounds was a far better option to depopulating most of the US. After a war like that, even fucking Mexico could just walk in and take everything.

But of course a fucking spic wouldn't understand something like that.

>>137757209
boo hoo consider my feelings hurt, farm boy. Have fun with your civil war, and have fun being on the losing side. Again.

long story short white sups are ultimate cucks hence they need cuck statues in every major city.

sorry to break it to you !

>>137751808
Fuck the Union and fuck you. My DNA is rooted in Appalachia and come from a long line of Confederate officers. Look up Zebulon Vance and get fucked, this is my family not just some "idea"

>>137755923
Sorry, but no. There was an element of not wanting to rub people's face in the loss, but that wasn't expressed in tolerating confederate symbolism. Early monuments were primarily memorials, and the vast majority of confederate monuments came decades after the war.

>>137757801
Memorials are one thing. There is no issue with respecting the dead. But celebrating through statues is another.

>>137752186
There are no monuments to Brutus and Cassius in Rome

>>137758687
This. Confed statues need to be placed in museums. They have no place in public forum. Reason is southern retards have a bizarre fixation

>>137758687

The statue that the antifags pulled down was a war memorial for dead Confederate soldiers.

>>137751808
A lot of people seem to forget that some of these towns and cities were partially founded and built by confederates and their families. There is more to history than just wars. These statues are of these men in their highest regalia. If even in hindsight they were traitors, at the time these men were considered patriots. The continuance of slavery was put into the founding confederate documents to gain funding for the war. Most of these soldiers didn't own slaves or even farms. Robert E Lee was a renowned scholar at West Point. Read some history for fucks sake.

>>137758013
And none of that contradicts anything I just said. But of course, reading comprehension can't be expected from a literal who country mainly known for having shit health and shit genes.

>>137758063
Have fun being a shitskin ;)

>>137759379
>mainly known for having shit health and shit genes.


Says the literal shitskin from the worlds most obese country

Because its a fucking part of history. There are still statues to past leaders in all countries, and literally not a single one of them would be up to an American SJW's standards on tolerance. Plus, these statues are works of art that are hundreds of years old. Show some fucking respect.

>>137759062

Also his fucking wife set up free schools for blacks and an emancipation projects.

The dumb antifa niggers are literally biting the hand that fed them.

>>137751808
Next (((they))) will remove all Native American statues.

>>137759824
Public statues are not for history. Museums are.

>>137751808
They' re part of your history. You know what happens when you try to erase your countries' past?

>>137751808
Read a book. Most confederate monuments were funded by the widows and Daughters of the Confederacy.

>>137760133
We have museums and textbooks to preserve history. Statues are about celebration, not history.

>>137760228
Your point?

>>137757371

And they didn't succeed. They never stopped being American.

>>137760128

No one goes to museums. Statues belongs in the open, not in a museum.

>>137760337
>Why should any state or local government be using public funds to celebrate people or entities hostile to the union?

They didn't. (for the most part) Though I guess upkeep and removal costs will be on taxpayers.

>>137760917
Lots of people go to museums

>>137760337
People were celebrating their fallen and you break shit because they didn't give you enough gibs.

>>137758966
Checked although I disagree.

Statues are being confused with idols. I think statues represent men who served with a duty to their state (like Gen. Lee) not to keep bankrupt (literally) business practices like slavery in play.

When I see a Confederate statue I don't get a boner for "the South will rise again" meme but feel sadness for those who fought and died for duty and honor for their state and friends, family, neighbors. Sometimes even being killed by other former friends, family and neighbors.

It's a memorial to the false hubris that was the Southern cause, not once great ideals that people are currently group-thinking.

Just sayin. Historical revisionism is a terrible, dangerous, and disgusting practice.

>>137759062
>The continuance of slavery was put into the founding confederate documents to gain funding for the war.
That's very convenient damage control.

It doesn't matter that most soldiers didn't own slaves. Most soldiers certainly agreed with slavery and would have liked to have slaves of their own. Most importantly, that fought to keep slavery in place. We need to look no further than the modern Republican party to see how a class of poor people rationalize supporting the interests of a wealthy class. They like the idea of hierarchy, they just don't like being at the very bottom of hierarchy, and they have the belief that somehow they will be in the top portion of the hierarchy some day. In other words, they accept and support keeping black people at the bottom because it means they are not at the bottom, and they would like to be a part of the oppressive upper class some day themselves, so they support institutions that maintain conditions that would allow them to.

>>137760917
Then maybe you should encourage people go to museums.

Statues are for celebrating someone. If that person shouldn't be celebrated, that person shouldn't have a public statue. Period.

>>137751808
We (the Allies) thoroughly defeated the Axis in the Second World War. Why should state or local government be using public funds to commemorate atrocities born of pure Nazi efficiency? That sounds like very cuckish behavior to me. Thats like your wife coming home with a new baby every nine months that isnt yours and forcing you to raise all six million of them.

>>137762344
Kek

>>137761019
It doesn't matter who initially funded it.

>>137751808
It was done to maintain the peace, same reason that Confederate veterans had their service transferred to the federal government and were given pensions. Now we will get a new civil war because retards forgot our history and think you can shit on half of a country and not tear the place apart.

>>137761577
Public statues ARE idols. They've never not been.

No history is being erased. The claim isn't even that the statues should be destroyed. They simply need to be moved to an appropriate location, eg a museum.

>>137751808
>Why should any state or local government be using public funds to celebrate people or entities hostile to the union?
Because their relatives died in that war, and the people that live there want to honor the loss of life and sacrifice of their ancestors.

Why is this so fucking hard for you to understand? Does the monument explicitly state that "SLAVERY IS GREAT!"? No?

Then what message are you inferring from the statue? What is the point of destroying or removing it just because you don't like it or you have placed your own meaning onto it?

This is fucking stupid.

>>137758687
>Memorials are one thing. There is no issue with respecting the dead. But celebrating through statues is another.
They're the same thing. The statues are the memorial you dingus.

>>137751808
A vagina clearly posted this

>>137763399
You are losing the cultural war.

But you still have a real battle ahead.

>>137752163
>I'm thoroughly American and my family is made of generations of Americans, and I don't identify with the Confederacy at all.
You dumbass. The Confederates were American. How you feel or identify is irrelevant. You probably don't identify as a resident of a state you've never been to either.
>These people seem like nothing but a bunch of traitorous scum
>seem
>not "are"
>seem
They "seem" that way because you stopped learning Civil War history in middle school

>>137757371
The Confederate States of America. They were trying to leave a federal government. Much like California is today.

>>137758687
You cockgobbling retard. The memorials and statues are the same thing.

>>137762829
The overwhelming majority of confederate statues were erected in the late 19th / early 20th century by the descendants of confederate soldiers. There is no meat to this claim that that Reconstruction-era United States tolerated wide-scale veneration of the confederacy.

>>137763207
>The claim isn't even that the statues should be destroyed.
Bullshit. Niggers in North Carolina pulled down and destroyed a statue on their own.

>>137754837

You refute your own argument with this post.

My guess is you're historically retarded.

>>137751808
double-plus-kys globalist mystery babylon scum murdered Lincoln because he wanted to ship the slaves home. THE WRONG SIDE WON THE WAR and the wages for their fucking sins were death and the destruction of White America.

>>137751808
If their principels and ideas are so wrong, then why censor and remove them ?

>>137752163
Then don't allow any statues where you live. By local democratic process, of course.

>>137754837
You're historically retarded.
>t. Berkeley History graduate

>>137752186
>They fought honorably or bravely
T. Carthaginian diaspora elephant fucker

>>137752163
>black people are Americans
I'm thoroughly American and my family is made of generations of Americans, and I don't identify with black people at all. Why should I? These people seem like nothing but a bunch of traitorous scum
>missourians are americans
I'm thoroughly American and my family is made of generations of Americans, and I don't identify with mssourians at all. Why should I? These people seem like nothing but a bunch of traitorous scum

>>137763916
>>137763382
Uhhh no. A memorial is not necessarily a statue. A statue is a potential kind of memorial. Let me rephrase since apparently you two are mildly retarded: It's fine to show respect for the dead in cemeteries through certain kinds of memorials. It is not okay to put up public statues in celebration of people who are losers and traitors, which is precisely what public statues through out the South exist for.

>>137755829
Did the people tearing down statues thus week fight in and win a war?

>>137757763
This.

>>137754837
The nature of an enemy does not change their status as an enemy. If you value individualism and hold your standards above those of the vanquished, it does not matter if they are remembered. In fact I'd argue it's the best way to keep your values front and center.
I don't care if you're a confederate sympathizer, I value my conviction enough as to defend it while respecting their right to defend theirs.
Scrubbing culture of unpopular images or events does nothing beyond blurring the memory of actual people and factual events, resulting in their destruction at best and their misrepresentation at worst.
Which is what this is; making a genuine cultural touchstone that should remain a point of contention and remembrance into a heroes vs villains myth that allows both sides to cast the other as "the other."
Absolute write and wrong matters to demagogues and fanatics. The kind of people that would gladly remove any and all obstacles, he they monuments, literature and eventually people that have the gall to stand in the way of "progress."

Memory holes are as close to true evil as I can describe. Freedom and equality of opportunity means accepting those opinions and values you may disagree with, because it is the only way to stave off collectivist garbage like communism and religiosity

>>137751808
Similar reason why a Statue of Lenin is up in the US.

>>137762344
>not raising your wife sons
Pathetic

>>137765206
In b4 grammar. Phone poster on lunch break yadda yadda

In a civilized society, it is up to the people to decide, by vote, if the monuments get taken down.

>>137751808
I completely despised the confederacy and the rebels my whole life.

Now I am forced to sympathize with them because the anti-whites are making it a point of attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKih6b7IssA

>>137752089
because they can't accept the fact that public spaces and funds shouldn't be used to memorialize and celebrate a bunch of national traitors who rebelled against america in order to own people as property. take all the statues and put them in a god damn privately owned museum or whatever, that's fine.

>>137754837
>implying the confederate generals weren't brilliant and strategic men

You and shills like you only reduce the south to "racism", when that was only a small part. Pretty convenient you don't mention that only 2% of Americans owned slaves, seems pretty strange to fight a war over something so small doesn't it? Because the war wasn't about slavery. That was the excuse.

I like and understand both sides from the civil war, both are important and helped shape American culture and ideals. To say one or the other is bad shows you have no understanding of these men.

Also, Lincoln wanted to send all blacks back to Africa, day of Lincoln statue tear down when? Right little faggot?

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>>137751808
What's really quite offensive is this. The south has been in open treason against the United States of America for five years, and a part of it for 236 years. Untold numbers of southerners have fought and died for the American flag.

And yet, all over the south all that is celebrated and remembered is those five years when they turned their guns on their fellow americans in rebellion.

Think about it. Southerners fought died and became heroes in all our great wars, as americans. Just an example: in World War II, Douglas MacArthur, Omar Bradley and Dwight D. Eisenhower were all southerners. And true american heroes.

But all over the south all you will see is statues of traitors Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford Forest and Stonewall Jackson.

>Muh 'history'

>>137754837
>The confederacy was a rebellion. You don't get to rebel, lose, and then put up statues of your losers.

I always find it funny that the group who actually fought and died to put down the confederacy didn't have a problem with the South honoring its heroes, but college students who have literally zero stake in the civil war do.

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>>137752788
>Losers do not get statues.

>>137765869
I didn't imply that there weren't brilliant confederate generals. That's irrelevant because confederate statues are about propping up the confederacy, not to display the achievement of The Union.

The Civil War was about slavery. This is a fact according to every credible historian on the matter, according to primary sources, and according to logic. It doesn't matter that 2% of White Southerners owned slaves. The other 98% largely supported slavery and were willing to die with the hope that one day their descendants, if not they themselves, could own black people too.

Also, there is no equivalence here. The Union were the good guys and The Confederates were the bad guys. This doesn't mean everyone in The Union was good or that everyone in The Confederacy was bad, but it does mean that there is no moral equivalence between wanting to own other people and wanting to stop people from owning other people.

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>>137752788
Ok let's smash all the Greek and Roman statues because they're to heroes of a dead civilization. Let's also smash Buddhist and Hindu statues in Muslim areas because they lost too. Might as well smash Babylonian and Sumerian and Egyptian artifacts too since they're in the dustbin of history.

Ya know I'm glad Muslims burned down the Library of Alexandria and shot the Sphinx's nose off. Losers don't deserve monuments.

>>137751808
> Why should any state or local government be using public funds to celebrate people or entities hostile to the union

Because confederacy is part of union just like niggers, rats or Indian reservations.

At least that was the point 1,5 centuries ago. If it is not, then confederacy has all the reasons to leave.

>>137767375
>The other 98% largely supported slavery and were willing to die with the hope that one day their descendants, if not they themselves, could own black people too.

I have a feeling that if the North had promised to pay the rich democrat plantation owners for their lost property, and had told the other 98% that they'd return the slaves to Africa so no one had to deal with their shit, emancipation would have been supported by everyone in the nation. Shit, I don't support slavery, but if the government told me they were going to release a literal horde of uneducated savages who were angry at what the 2% did on society, I'd act with rebellion too.

>>137751808
White supremacy snowflakes want a participation prize

>>137752163
>I don't identify with the next town over
>therefore I am going to go and burn down their trademark burger joint
>>137751808
>thoroughly defeated
>signed a peace treaty allowing states (general included) to rejoin The Union
The "confederate" generals are 100% United States of America.

>>137763977
They didn't build statues to the men while they were still alive you fucking moron, that hardly ever happens. People like Lee were sent around giving speeches about reconciliation and honoring the shared dead and consecrating war cemetaries, when all the veterans started dying then memorials went up.

>>137758354

This, particularly true about Charlottesville

>>137752163
You don't, but that doesn't mean that others like that side of the history.

>>137759733
But that's your country burger-kun.

>>137762034

Wow. A glimmer of reason coming out of this shithole.

>>137764985
>It is not okay to put up public statues in celebration of people who are losers and traitors, which is precisely what public statues through out the South exist for.
Your opinion is noted. But I don't care about your opinion. You're not providing an argument as to WHY they should be removed.

They exist because the public in those locations wanted them to exist. They should continue to exist until the public in those locations don't want them to exist.

Your wants or wishes a irrelevant to a decision that is only the business of the people that live in that area.

>>137752788
No it wasn't. They were trying to preserve the way America was founded, and that included nigger slavery among other things. Just read the Confederate Constitution. It's just like the US one except more explicit language as to avoid the problematic ambiguity and redesigned the system of government as to change the bad parts of the US Constitution was pushed by Northern delegates at the Philly convention.

>>137751808
>why have native american statues

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>>137751808
Because the only ones who wants them removed are present day cucks and SJW types.

>>137770641
They should be removed because they are symbols of losers, traitors, and hatred.

It doesn't matter if citizens of a local town support it. In the United States we have freedom of movement and freedom of speech. We are free to name and shame individuals and entities who support it.

Also, with Charlotesville, we aren't talking about a small conservative town. We're talking about a liberal college town. I'm sure you had no problem with all of these white supremacists from across the country going there specifically to protest against the removal of a statue that most people who actually lived there did not want.

>>137771558
Because no one in your circle jerk of blameist thinks they should come down doesn't equate to "no one but..." Kys pretty please.