why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war? is it

Why even read history books for that matter? I mean they all dead n shit right

>>137573636
maybe it was built before they lost?

>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?
You live on an island of defeats. The Romans fucked you, the Vikings fucked you, the Normans fucked you.

>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?

No one "wins" civil wars.

>>137573755
a statue is not a book.
statues are idolatrous, not educational.
i'm not suggesting you rewrite history. i'm questioning why you would build a statue of a loser.
do you need me to simplify my sentiment even further, you thick cunt?

>>137573636
There is such a thing as honoring the dead, you know.

Also:
>americans celebrate the vietnam war, even though they got defeated
We pulled out because of fucking protesting (the same protests that make libfags today think they're can actually do shit) and because of messy politics.
We don't celebrate it, we just remember those who died in vain because of fucking hippies and shitty politicians.

>>137573805
You Dutch are so innocent. Like giant, gentle retards.

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>>137573636

What kind of cowardly villain only enters wars he thinks he can win? What kind of scum weighs the odds as if, for a certain price, he would betray his principles?

Congratulations on defeating the white men who ride for their niggas, die for their niggas, though.

>>137573636
With the same logic the USA should remove any native memorials or any land belonging to native american nations, after all they did lose and they are an enemy to the USA.

>>137574220
>We pulled out because of fucking protesting
is that what they teach you?
fucking hell. it's worse than i thought.
mate, you were on the verge of capitulation long before any withdrawal.

>>137573636

He was one of the greatest generals in U.S. history and for that reason he has an honorable place in that history. I'd assume someone such as you Sir Ahmed Muhammad ibn Cornwallis would understand the situation perfectly, but I suppose the state madrassahs have to make room in the curriculum.

>>137574097
>statues are idolatrous, not educational.
Maybe if you rather choose wilful ignorance, which you obviously do.

Also
>I get to determine what symbols mean personally to complete strangers.
Spoken like a true subhuman.

>>137574573
>He was one of the greatest generals in U.S. history
ye, and he lost.
tells you something about the calibre of U.S military leaders.
name a single war america has won.
and you didn't when the revolution by the way, the french did.

>>137573636
Are there statues of scots in scotland? Fuck yourself

>>137573636
It's how Southern politicians used to negotiate for gibs from Washington, D.C. They'd bring up the awfulness of their treatment during and after the Confederate Rebellion and then they'd get what they wanted. Kind of like your Scotland, Wales and N.I. in relation to England, I suppose...

I never did like it, because the Afro.-plantations in this country meant civic nationalism, or maybe it was a time of a multi-racial Christian nationalism, but really I am an ethno-nationalist because it's obvious that race does make a critical difference in having a first-world country—i.e. nearly all of the first world countries are white.

>>137573636
It was a political defeat, the Vietnam War became unpopular with the US electorate due to a loss of national morale. US forces never suffered a military defeat.

>>137573636
I would suggest that everyone read up on the Southern withdrawal from the Union.
It was probably the most dignified separation ever attempted.
The people in charge were true leaders and gentlemen.

>>137574836
You have to go pray at the mosque now Nigel Al Bongi

>>137573636
The American Civil War is a complicated and tragic subject for Americans. Or it used to be until the Left managed to make it into Star Wars with its simplistic portrayal of good and bad. We honor them because they fought honorably.

>>137574917
>Are there statues of scots in scotland?
>Canadian education
But the Scots actually won, and the Scottish wars of independence cannot be compared to the American civil war or Vietnam.

>>137573636
Maybe it was built by those who symphatized him.

>>137574097
Statue is only idolatrous if you let it be, same with paintings.

>>137574917
Scotland won the wars of Independence.
The kingdoms were united by a Scottish King, James VI.

>north americans in charge of history lessons

>>137573636
He was a great man and the best military mind our nation ever produced. Their is honor in fighting for a just cause

>>137575065
It happened in the aftermath of them trying to bring their Afro.-plantations into Kansas and farther west, Anon. Those areas were meant for white people, and so the culture mobilised against the idea of the system of slavery that would bring those blacks there. Of course, the Southerners who later became Confederates wanted to keep their slaves—they would have sent them back with one of the colonisation societies to Africa, otherwise—and ultimately the same cultural momentum that made Kansas and such off-limits to the Afro.-plantations included the criminalisation of slavery in toto throughout the country.

/pol/ does not support multi-racial societies over white ones, something to know.

>>137575789
Stop being so salty, that's hardly banter.

>>137573636
Gloria Victis heh

>>137575789
Remember to wear acid resistant goggles today!

>>137573636
History.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

>>137574520
>you were on the verge of capitulation long before any withdrawal.
We were just days away from Ho Chi Minh marching through D.C.

>>137575810
>the best military mind our nation ever produced.
>lost

top fucking lel, you rednecks are dumb as rocks

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

Southerners start the largest pro-slavery insurrection in history to defend their 'states right' to own black people as farm animals forever. After getting curbstomped, they spent the next century denying they'd done anything wrong and kept blacks as second class citizens for almost a century.

>>137575992
The victor writes history, homeboy.

We never lost Vietnam
It was a proxy war to see how American technology fed against the soviets and in that case we won.
You retarded nugger.

>>137573636
>brit education
Robert e Lee helped us conquer Mexico shithead.

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>>137576183
>We never lost Vietnam
>it wasn't an actual war

>>137576176
Well history is going to change. Don't start something you can't finish, redcoat.

>>137573636
Lee fought for Virginia and those who lived in it.

If Virginia had not seceded, he would have led the Union forces.

He was a stellar general and statesman and an upstanding American.

>>137573636
He's a Southern hero.

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>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?
>yfw there are men who failed spectacularly or were simply unfortunate enough to be on the losing side, and are more worth remembering than your 9 to 5 cashier ass

>>137576183
Right, had to test how jet bombers fare against Soviet rifles.

>>137576176
I hate this sentiment, it's just a subtle way of accusing your opponent of bias.

Through the lost cause, the south controlled the narrative of the war with effects still seen today.

>>137576176
>Let's just forget about things that happened, what's the worse that could happen?
Even by brit standards you're a faggot. You guys should have a statue of Hadrian along the ancient wall, that'd be cool. You understand why, right?

>>137573636

Because it's history. Because those were American leaders. Because they study their strategies still at West Point. Because they were considered great leaders for their people.
As Americans live in the south, those statues represent their ancestors struggle. Wrong, right, doesn't matter because we can learn from it.
Great men of history get statues. And every great man has haters. But I wouldn't go tearing down Napoleon statues just because he lost and I don't agree with his monarchy politics.
I wouldn't because it's a part of French history and a part of their culture.
Same it is with us.
You asked the wrong questions. If you'd asked why bother to tear statues down of long dead men? Well the answer to that relates to what I said before. It's about destroying white culture. Entirely. I saw a Dem say earlier on here in another thread that they should tear down all the monuments in DC too. Because that's what this is really about. It's not about the civil war. It's about annihilating white culture and history entirely.

>>137573636

Lee also fought in the Mexican America War, along side future Union generals. Lee was a loved man throughout America after the Civil War.

>>137574097
It's a statue to remember the cause dumb ass

>>137576412
we didn't loose a single military conflict

even calling the war a phyrric victory for the vietnamese would be incorrect

It was entirely political jewing that removed us from the war, and the fact that South Vietnam was a shithole that was run by utterly inept leadership. If South Vietnam had competent leadership and was actually able to defend their own nation, then nobody would be saying that the US lost the war. Because really, it wasn't us that failed, it was South Vietnam.

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LEXINGTON, KY IS NEXT
>>137573038
LEXINGTON, KY IS NEXT
>>137573038
LEXINGTON, KY IS NEXT
>>137573038

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>>137573636
Better throw this one in the dumpster as well then.

>>137575814
>It happened in the aftermath of them trying to bring their Afro.-plantations into Kansas and farther west, Anon.
Don't misrepresent what this was. The US was expanding and the slave owning states wanted a 50/50 ratio.
> Of course, the Southerners who later became Confederates wanted to keep their slaves
Because the North was raising economic sanctions against the south and extracting a unholy fuckton of money from them. There was no way around using slaves, which were being phased out as automation of work processes were being developed. The North has slaves long after the South didn't.
>they would have sent them back with one of the colonisation societies to Africa
Why the FUCK Booth shot Lincoln BEFORE he sent the Africans back is beyond me. Way to ruin the entire fucking country.
>/pol/ does not support multi-racial societies over white ones, something to know.
No shit, but that doesn't help us now.

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>>137573636
Why would you honor and remember slaves when they're the literal definition of losers?

Same with the Holocaust victims.

Because it's history and it's important to remember these things.

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>>137573636

Yeah, you should never honor the dead of the losing side, after all, they lost and deserve to be punished harshly so they realize what they did wrong!

>>137573636
It's another episode of Muhammad not understanding the honor in brother wars

>>137573636
do scots have monuments to scots?
do english have monuments from when they were ruled by rome/french normans/german kings?

well i certainly hope not or you might actually sound like a retard

hell you are owned and operated by germans again today better take down all those british monuments

>>137576758
It wasn't a statement of intent. It's a reality.
The victor writes the history books.
Hadrian and the failed roman conquest of Scotland is a great example.
For centuries people believed the picts were naked barbarians, fighting with stone clubs and sticks. Because this is what the roman chroniclers told us. Only in the last 20 years have archaeological findings revealed the truth, they were a highly advanced peoples with extensive trade networks, advanced agriculture and armour and weaponry to rival the romans. Now we know they didn't didn't reject roman rule because they were mad savages, like the romans wrote, but because they didn't feel like the romans had anything to offer them. Though they were never outright subjugated by Rome, they were effectively isolated and cut off by the more dominant and influential roman empire. So rome in this sense was the victor, and as such they wrote the history, even though it was complete bullshit.

>>137576176
Better knock down big ben, nobody uses that clock anymore, thay have cell phones.

>>137577773
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

South wrote the history of the war

>>137573636
bad example anon, American schools unironically teach kids that the Vietnam war was "a tie"

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>>137573636
But Colonel Sanders won the war on chicken

>>137573636
Why would you honor someone who owned and mantained slaves? That's the same as giving your jobs to foreigners in the first place?

>>137577773
You typed a whole lot without justifying the removal of historical statues of figures from our history. If if was just "victor rules" then we wouldn't have put the statues up in the first place, clearly we wanted to remember them but now privileged children are going after them in some sort of misplaced rage at white history.
This isn't okay, you know full-well it's not.

>>137576176
You do understand without mass suppression the victor doesn't write history anymore. The reason Krauts apologize for WWII is because we suppressed the shit out of them. After the civil war no one gave a shit literally everyone just kinda got on with life there was no suppression just getting over it.

>>137576163
>slavery is illegal in 1863
>war started two years earlier
>somehow the war is totally about slavery and nothing else guys please dont look into this just believe me

>>137573636
>is it the same mentality that makes americans celebrate the vietnam war, even though they got defeated?

>north vietnam sues for peace
>we agree to terms and call the war a draw
>a few months later the north vietnamese invade the south again in a separate war
>somehow this is a "loss" because we didn't get involved again.

>>137573636
Troll the Yanks

>>137573636
Why is there a statue of Albert Pike? Piss off, kike.

>>137576163
What is federal industrialization n' sheet?

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>>137573636
eat a dick bachi boy

>>137577571
>do scots have monuments to scots?
yes, because they won.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eclbaC3q94k

>>137573636
We don't celebrate the Vietnam war, paki
Look at the movies we've made about Nam. Everyone hates that war

>>137573636
Because the next best thing to fighting and winning is fighting and losing

>>137578253
You forgot to mention the part where North Vietnam had its population reduced to pebbles.

>>137578141
history in modern times just depends on which war time propaganda everyone took to like the fake killing of children that sparked desert storm

or the "hitler only liked blonde blue eyed people" even though tons of shit skins served in the nazi army and half jews

>>137573636
Loke the revolutionary war england lost? Or how pooinloos fought and ran you off. Or how vietnam was too scary for england to help. Or how the sas in iraq got captured because they were too pussy to dig a fucking foxhole and got spotted by goat fuckers, were capture and gave out information vital to the operation.

>>137578376
Jock detected. Pic related, now kindly fuck off.

>>137573636
The statue was one of four commissioned statues of famous Virginians.

There's one with Stonewall Jackson, some founding father from Virginia, and Lewis and Clark.

This one particular statue has about as little to do with racism and the confederacy as possible.

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>>137578756
>>137578376
Forgot pic

>>137578756
>that picture

im shaking, nigel

>>137573636
you need to read about General Lee. Seriously, he was not anything like you are thinking

>>137578862
>memorial to dead soldiers
>statue of an individual

if you can't tell the difference you're a fucking potato, to be honest.

Every fighter that bravely and heroicly fought in war should be honored, respected and remembered.

But I doubt the britcuck like you would ever understand this.

The great days of your empire are long over and now is your country of decadence and cucks rotten to its very roots and controlled by femishits, libtards, muzzies, commies and cucks.

>>137577960
The US clearly won. Vietnam now produces shoes for Nike.

>>137578488
Since the Boxer rebellion this is a giant factor in the outcome of victories and the level of autonomy after them.

they stand as reminders of what we defeated, and what happens we the people are divided
and now they are toppled by those who want to see this country divided, because we failed to learn from them

>>137578807
That doesn't matter, I fully expect statues of Union generals to start getting this treatment soon because antifags are too dumb to know any better.

>>137573636

>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?

Robert E. Lee was a fucking American hero and it's the miseducation of American youth that portrays him as anything other than an American hero who understood what this nation was built on.

From his letter to George Washington Custis Lee:

"As an American citizen, I take great pride in my country, her prosperity and institutions, and would defend any State if her rights were invaded. But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation. I hope, therefore, that all constitutional means will be exhausted before there is a resort to force... Still, a Union that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets, and in which strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, has no charm for me. I shall mourn for my country and for the welfare and progress of mankind. If the Union is dissolved, and the Government disrupted, I shall return to my native State and share the miseries of my people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none."

>>137578996
It's a statue of somebody who lost a war

>>137579177
The war never ended.

>>137579177
no it's not.
it's a memorial at the sight of a mass grave you insensitive cunt.
don't make me come down there and slap you about, nigel.

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>>137579177
see
>>137579108
then use pic related, you worthless paki

>>137579177
The civil war is a little different than just two political parties trying to obtain a gain. It was a cultural thing as well, the states seen this and really didn't care enough to try and convert the south to a different culture when you can just let them be.

Bong? You have a statue of Oliver Cromwell, a guy who cut off your kings head and let the Jews back into your country in your capital.

>>137574520
Now I know you're retarded
I bet you think that the tet offensive was a win for the commies lmao

>>137574697
>>137575643
>>137576881
>No argument

>>137577773
>>137577317

Don't ignore. How well did it work shaming a defeated group of people and harshly/severely punishing them? How many people could have been spared in the 1930s-1940s if Britain hadn't decided that the "losing" side shouldn't be treated well and allowed to stand on their feet, but rather kicked them when they were down? If you colossal fucking faggots had listened to Woodrow Wilson you wouldn't have created the environment which spawned the Nazis to begin with.

>Be American 1866
>War is over, southerners (who are still Americans) are already planning when they're going to revolt again
>North could seriously fuck up reconstruction if they treat all rebels as traitorous criminals
>Decide that instead of spending the next 50+ years fighting guerrilla warfare in the appalachian mountains its best to forgive and forget
>Allow southerners to have pride in their struggle because it doesn't matter, since they're living in the victor's world anyway
>Statues go up, but the south never rises again.

>>137579316
Fucking kek, a Scot lecturing the Yanks about not romanticising lost wars, when that's basically what your culture consists of. My sides.

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>>137573636
johnny reb needs a hair cut, right below the neckline

>>137573636
brits celebrate that celt bitch who tried to fuck with the romans, who ended up slaughtering her.

>>137579752
That's a good point.
Can you imagine germans erecting statues of hitler post 1945?
how mad would that be?

>>137579752
>>Statues go up, but the south never rises again.
>Instead they proceed to violently oppress black people and set the country back 100 years in race relations
The North was no utopia, but the South was fucking terrible

>>137574836
He also dedicated 32 years of his military career in the United States Army. By an act of Congress, all Confederate soldiers are US soldiers. Total years of service for America: 37 years. One of the greatest generals in all of American history.

>>137577317

Ya if it's a foreign country MAYBE

> idolizing rebels

cuckfederate fags eternally BTFO

>>137577078

Your mental gymnastics imppress me.
You have no concept of context

>>137573636
Because honoring a fallen enemy is something war veterans do. You will never hear a Vietnam vet sell his enemy short. Too many died for that to be the case. Same thing here. Hundreds of thousands died on each side. Everyone fought too hard not to be honored by the survivors. Especially because they started out as countrymen and finished as countrymen.

>>137574836
He also did not go the way of Nathan Bedford Forrest and terrorize the nation stupidly. Lee and the whole group could have waged a guerrilla war for many more years, but he accepted defeat like a gentleman.

>>137580141
>You will never hear a Vietnam vet sell his enemy short
because they got their arses kicked

>>137573636
It's about appreciating the bravery of the men who fought and commemorating the event so you don't repeat the same mistakes. You probably think communism is a good idea so you wouldn't understand

>>137573636
Because he was a vital figure in the history of the Civil War and a good general to boot.

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>>137573944
If you kill them, they win.

>>137580343
Just like the dirty, thieving, murderous Redcoats, eh gov?

>>137580279
That's something no one gives him credit for his humility. Despite your views on who he was as a person he was gracious in defeat and humble in victory. Defiantly in the top 10 best Generals in U.S. history.

>>137580343
Are you joking? America lost 50,000 and killed over 500,000 NV military.

>>137574097
>statues are idolatrous

isis-removing-statues.jpg

>>137580571
ye, and you still didn't win.

>>137580343
Look, you clearly don't have a grasp of our history. That's fine. But what does your rebuttal have to do with honoring a fallen enemy or those that lost a war? I answered the question. Your response is idiotic.

>>137573636
Because the Confederates had every right to secede and were invaded by a hostile foreign nation who proceeded to try to erase their whole culture after the end of the war. Honor was also a big thing back then and the leaders of the Confederacy were very respectable men who deserve to be honored.

>>137580793
Vietnam literally didn't have a population after we left. They make Nike shoes and other name brand American clothing explain to me how we lost?

>>137573636
Because it happened and needs to be reminded. You have statues of Gandhi, Mandela and co. in front of your Big Ben, right? All the guys who destroyed your empire. It's the same but upside down.

>>137581026
>They make Nike shoes and other name brand American clothing
That's in spite of the vietnam war, not as a result of. Ya fucking dunce.

>>137573805
Most of the confederate statues were built in 20th century

No monuments for traitorous losers. You don't get a participation trophy. Taken them all down and put them in museums where the "history" of it all can be properly preserved. Your team lost. Get the fuck over it blue waffle eating cocksluts.

>>137573636
>britcuck talking about America

Opinion discarded.

>>137581368
You are an idiot. What are you trying to accomplish you silly Nancy?

The confederate leaders and generals betrayed their country in support of a morally bankrupt institution and knowingly contributed to the degeneration of American values.They should not be glorified, and removing their statues is fair game.

However, the common confederate soldier was not an ideologue; he was a Southerner who had little choice but to fight in what he was led to regard as a battle for survival. These soldiers deserve to be remembered and even honored for their courage, even if they fought for the wrong cause.

>>137573636
Most confederate statues and monuments were built post-1900 by southerners still bitter about losing the war. A big part of the monuments was historical revisionism over the causes and motivations of the war. The south wants to see it as "the war of northern aggression" or "the noble lost cause". It basically all boils down to "we wuz good boys we dindu nuffin".

Robert E. Lee is a great example of this. During his live he was strongly against statues in his likeness. After he died, revisionists mythologized him as this great general who fought for their noble cause.

>>137581567
>leftist thinking he knows anything about American values

Another opinion discarded.

>>137581206
>It's the same but upside down.
so it's not the same
honouring someone who bested us is quite blatantly not the same as honouring someone who got bested.
we also have a statue of margaret thatcher, you might be interested to hear. anymore of your cheek and i'm going to sellotape said statue onto an ICBM and fire it into your fucking house you cunt.

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>>137579916

I can imagine them erecting monuments to the soldiers and military commanders who fought for their nation. If you want to equate Hitler with Jefferson Davis and can't comprehend why one leader might be given a statue while another not, be my guest. Address the actual example I was providing instead of your own. Was it a good or bad idea to crush the defeated as hard as possible after WW1?

>>137576081
Napoleon lost as well. Plenty of renown generals and emperors have lost. The enemy can easily have more resources to throw at you. That doesn't make them legendary commanders.

To post on pol every IP should have to pass a basic history exam. Tired of having to spoon feed retards.

>>137581544
opinion validated

because i'd trust a British person to know more american history than an actual american.

>>137576986
Fuck I go to college there

>>137581368
Industry destroyed, agriculture burned, no manpower, etc. then has the country that did this to them say,
>"Hey if you sellout your communist beliefs we can get you industry again."
>Having no choice since without their help you will go bankrupt and with the crippling debt and destroyed moral of the previous war you have to accept.

Yeah we totally lost that war as they make pennies on the dollar compared to our millions from $400 Nike shoes. We destroyed their industry so they were forced into it once it became none profitable to keep continuing the war we left. Welcome to American politics bud we'll make you free either through killing your political leaders or bombing the shit out of you till you're forced to accept our businesses trade deals.

>>137582005
>a fucking leaf

Opinion discarded :^)

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>>137579923
>Be from the North
>Free the slaves
>Spend the next 152 years being more overtly racist and prejudiced than southerners, KKK included
>Gotta take those statues down though, they're the source of all the racist power!

>>137581775
>anyone with a reasoned opinion is a leftist

"All men are created equal" is in our founding document, retard.

They fought extremely bravely and inflicted massive loses on the Yankee horde with outdated weapons and little supplies, they deserve statues.

>>137574573
>He was one of the greatest generals in U.S. history
Except he wasn't, not by a long shot. The myth that Lee was this great general was created long after his death.

He won a number of battles against McClellan, but that had more to do with McClellan being terrible and timid than Lee's generalship. Lee was notorious for being unable to control his subordinate commanders and suffered a number of tactical defeats. He also got absolutely destroyed in Gettysburg because he decided to have his infantry charge across a wide, open plain, which was a terrible decision in a war fought with artillery.

>>137581819
It's the same, you honor the guys who made you lose your empire. The southerners honor those who made them lose the war. The reasons are different. UK honors it from a feeling of obligation, the southerners honor them for a feeling of respect.

>>137580010
Your country was founded by rebels you cunt.

Why would you have a holiday because a guy failed to blow up Parliament, and use fireworks

>is it the same mentality that makes americans celebrate the vietnam war, even though they got defeated?
The first question could be legitimate, but this is obvious bait in many ways.

sage

>>137582297
Aye, I'm sure general lee was personally out there on the front line, risking his life and limb. He definitely wasn't sat in a tent literally miles away drinking whiskey and smoking cigars.

>>137582613
He literally was do you not understand how wars were fought before radio?

>>137582370

how do you know lol. Not like you were there

>>137582492
That's a celebration of Guy Fawkes being caught, and executed.
Hence why we burn caricatures of him on the bonfires, you dungus.

>>137582266
>a reasoned opinion

Your opinion of your opinion is just your own retarded opinion, faggot.

>>137576176
>the victor writes history
>t-the French won the American revolution
Losers don't get a say, you fat fucking pussy. Don't make us invade you and rape your women again. That's right bitch, you lost the fucking war and I'm telling you how it really went down.

>>137582693
People running around with letters with the orders written by the generals. Of course, not that that's bad. It's pretty stupid to risk an officer.

>>137582693
No. Explain to me please.
Explain to me why someone as valuable and strategically important as a general would be anywhere near combat.

>>137573755
By logic of this cunt: ISIS is ok cos they are winning so destroying starues of losers is ok.

>>137579152
>loves the US
>attempts to secede

>>137583057
To command his troops, ya dingus.

>>137583074
I never said it was OK to destroy the statue.
Nice reading comprehension, hans.

>>137583056
Runners were used yes however a general needs to physically see the battle to have an understanding of what to do. That's why they would stay about a good mile away on a hill over viewing the battle. Where it would be absolutely retarded to take a shot at the general and his staff with a cannon as you would miss and he would run away wasting a cannon shot you could use at troops.

>>137582924
Number of arguments put forward:

Me: 2
You: 0

I'm running away with this and you're just letting it happen

>>137574097
I agree, we should tear down Auschwitz as well.

>>137574520
>mate, you were on the verge of capitulation long before any withdrawal.
The Vietnamese occupied land in America ?

>>137583198
He wouldn't need to be in combat to do that.
It's called a chain of command.
Like when you are at your job at mcdonalds, and your manager wants you to stop avoiding eye contact with the customers, he doesn't need to stand at the counter to tell you. He tells the supervisor, but the supervisor doesn't even like to look at you, so he tells the supervisor in training, who then comes to the counter and tells you, doesn't he?

>>137583408
So he wasn't risking life and limb on the front lines. Again, that's not bad, but I personally prefer monuments which honor the battle instead of the officers. But tearing down statues is bad.

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>>137573636
Listen cunt, I'm not even American but I understand this.

It was a CIVIL WAR, that is, it was America vs. America, America fucking lost the war by default because a civil war is not something that can be won by either side, "winning" just means driving the opposing half of the country into the dirt, killing your countrymen, it is not a good thing at all.

Those who died on BOTH SIDES of the Civil War were American, they were brothers, it was a terrible war and a terrible fight for both the North and South and the fallen of both sides deserve honour as fallen AMERICANS, not fallen unionists or fallen confederates, but fallen brothers who were forced to fight one-another. There is no fallen American soldier undeserving of respect, whether they fought for the North or South, they fought for America, and ought to be treated as any other fallen American soldier. To try to deprive half of your entire nation's fallen men respect upon death is more despicable than any supposed thing the South fought for, full stop.

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>>137573636
Why would you build a statue of someone who lost an Empire?

>>137583057
General stood a mile away on a hill watching the battle when there was an order to give he dispatched a runner (someone with a horse that would run and tell the regiment what to do). They would need to see the battle physically as they couldn't receive enough info over runners to get an idea of the battle let alone how long it would take to relay messages miles away. Since the general would be away from his troops there would be no strategical reason to shoot at his as you would probably miss and it would be wasted time and ammunition you could use on troops. If you hit him that's wonderful however the chance is small and you would be wasting a lot for a small chance at a gain when you could take a high chance for a smaller gain.

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>>137581775
>>137582924

you're embarrassing yourself, little guy.

>>137583766
i guess we weren't defeated at dunkirk then, by this logic.

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>>137583508
>all men are created equal
>same document considers niggers 3/5 of a person, but only because the southern states felt they would be underrepresented without niggers being counted
>same guys pass a law a few years later saying only whites can be citizens
You're a fucking pussy, dude.

> Be country made of rebels
> Rebels rebel against the rebels
> B-but this is t-treason, and u-unfair!!!

The south rising was the most american thing to happen since 1776

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reminder leftwing terrorism is not welcome here

>>137583057
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sedgwick

Check out this fag

Why are we carving a Crazy Horse memorial? He lost.

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>>137573636
Wow, GREAT question!

>>137583778
I understand combat and the chain of command you fucking moron. You think he was always a general? You think he didn't get his hands dirty? Sit down before you fall down. Slut.

>>137583803
"Soldiers generally win battles; generals get credit for them." - Napoleon Bonaparte. Yes generally it is the soldier that risks everything however without the generals knowledge and expertise the soldier's moral would break and he would have no leadership. Keep in mind as well the horses the generals had were not fast they were sturdy so they could get run down by Calvary easily but the generals guard would risk life and limb to stop them.

>>137583891
Another brainlet beta bitch enters the mix. See >>137583908, faggot. The founders were white nationalists. You're wrong. Get over it.

>>137579752
They werent made official US veterans until the Spanish-American war, 30 years later

>>137583847
He was in bed with (((them)))

>>137583908
>3/5 compromise
>same document
Try learning the most basic American history next time, friend.

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>>137573636
Why make a statue for losers indeed

>>137574836
Spanish American War

What do i win

>>137583508
>he thinks there are winners on 4chan
Wew lad

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>>137573859
>The Romans fucked you, the Vikings fucked you, the Normans fucked you

And wait, there's more

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>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?

Dunno. Why did you?

>>137573636
Yeah why honour men for fighting and dying for a cause? Especially when those men are your relatives and family.

>>137584138

the irony of a little cuck like you using the word beta is hilarious--i can only imagine your dad must have been a flaming little cocksucker too to raise such a little pansy.

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>>137573636
The statues should be torn down. They LOST. They don't get to own any facet of victory, imagined or otherwise. They need to be lifted clean out of history until, 50 or so years from now, no one will even know the Confederacy even existed, as there will be no surviving proof of them or anything that they did.

Deal with it, witebois.

>>137573636

He was a big damn hero in multiple conflicts. I'll forgive you not knowing real American history since you are Muslim.

>>137573636
Because they want to remember the one who fought against globalism. Confederates were the first victims of US Government ruled by jews. You would know about it if your country weren't 1984 tier. Same way Leonidas is considered a hero. Fucking bong won't know shit about it since your history is based on killing unarmed civilians and savages.

>>137583057
so he could command his fucking troops
are you retarded?

>>137584105
Monuments to the Battles honor everyone. The soldiers, the generals and the enemy. They make the most sense.

>>137574836
Mexican-American War

>>137583847
The crimes this man committed to his own country and all of Europe go much further than losing the Empire. I would gladly tear down and melt each single statue of this criminal.

>>137573636
Post civil war unification

>>137583989
>trying to conflate dirt savages being jealous of the works of higher societies, to ANTIFA pulling down statues of a cucked army that FUCKING LOST and didn't build shit

>>137574097

Damn whiney britfag triggered off the first response, kill yourself lmfao

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>>137584572
Nice dude.

Very nice.

>>137583649
Kek

>>137584430
got 'em

>>137573636
Because true nobility should never be forgotten and replaced by a false one.

>>137574097
Then it's a good thing Robert E. Lee is my idol

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>>137573636
>Remembering people who fought in a war is somehow bad
Why are you Anglos so retarded? Inbreeding?

>>137573636
The history is also in the who put them up and the why. Most of the confederate statues where put up when these states where democratic, during the democratic Jim Crow era when the KKK was running around the south as the domestic terrorists organization of the Democrats. They aren't trying to remove statues of racists losers, they are trying to wash away the Democrats culpability.
Pretty hard to accuse everyone of being racists when there are monuments to your own racism all over the place.

>>137584572
And replace the history with what? Brrratttt brattt bratt and booty twerking? Good bait, but you still a nigger.

>>137584430
>the declaration of independence supersedes the constitution
lma fucking o
>>137584560
>gets proven wrong
>chimps out like a nigger
Don't take your impotent beta rage outside of your mom's basement little fella. There are real world consequences when you talk to grown men like that. You seem to be compensating for something, is your dick shriveling up from the estrogen therapy, you fucking tranny?

>>137584854
Every single native american land or statue also needs to be torn down with the "losing side"-logic.
I mean they are clearly opposed to the USA and it's traitorous to idolize such enemies of the state.

>>137584752
The best thing you can do is what the Soviets did after WWII they made no fuss about Zhukov or another general the monuments they built were of soldiers who gave their lives for country.

>>137584874
He didn't get shit. He's tried to bitch out of defending his argument on semantics. There's a reason that SCOTUS determines whether laws are costitutional and not declartional.

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>>137585247

>>137585497
There were statues of Stalin fucking everywhere though

>>137585283
The declaration lays out the principles on which the country was founded. The constitution is a legal compromise between various special interests. It's really not that complicated.

what a great thread this turned out to be
thanks lads

>>137573636
You don't celebrate something simply because it won in specific circumstances.
Many people and ideas on this earth are worth honoring, perhaps even more so for enduring loss and hardship.
That's not the condition for our remembrance of Robert E. Lee, but it certainly is for our remembrance of the Vietnam War.
The people aren't robotic- they don't care for victory all of the time, and oftentimes, there are valuable people and concepts within defeats. Defeat and victory are not just many times- they're conditions.
It DOES seem a little silly, like there are traitors in the nation, but not everything is us vs. them.


Hell, Hitler lost, but this site idolizes him.

>>137584752
>>137585497
What I mean by this is that while people like MacArthur, Patton, and Zhukov were amazing generals they all lacked one thing. Care for human life. When the atomic bomb was dropped on Japan as a way to get around the estimated 1 million causality invasion of Japan MacArthur got mad. Zhukov was famous for sending troops into die or cutting off troops and leaving them to die. Patton beat the shit out of his troops when they wouldn't go into the 7th straight battle 4 days in a row. Men die not generals some of them understand this like Eisenhower, Monty, and Omar Bradley (He went into a deep depression after ordering D-day) for example there's a lot that do not.

>>137585805
You're right, it's not. The founders didn't consider women equal to men and didn't consider non-whites to be people.

>>137573944
This. I wouldn't call the entire country losing over 10% of their able bodied young men, "winning."

>>137585624
It's an attitude, not a color. :^)

>>137585732
Stalin is a political figure much less a general as seen after the great purge they don't honor him as a general but as the foundation that kept Russia together during its toughest time.

>>137586116
The founders who actually believed that were a minority who placed their own interests above the country's. They were appeased so as to achieve unanimous support, with the intention that slavery would be abolished later, which it was. That was the founders' vision from the beginning.

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Still picking protesters out of my grill.

>>137573636
The union won, but at what cost?

>>137574097
It's time for evening prayer, Muhammad

>>137573636
>be a hero of the Mexican-American war
>have generals praise your for your heroics in battle
>become superintendent at west point
>civil war breaks out
>Lincoln personally asks you to man his army
>say that you don't believe in slavery, but you love Virginia so much you'll side with your state
>Virginia succeeds
>Lee mans the forces of a northern Virginia
>commands the side that has little to no resources and dwindling food supplies
>goes to congress to tell them his men are starving
>tells him to fuck off
>Such a feared general that Grant has to reassure his men that Lee will not flank them so they can get some sleep
>preach anti war sentiments and how we are all Americans
>eventually get overwhelmed by the vast amount of resources of the Union
>surrender at Appomattox
>stay in Virginia, say that "whatever her fate, shall be my fate too"
>become president at Washington college
>save it from bankruptcy
>tell butthurt confederates that "we are all Americans and it is our duty to help rebuild peace and prosperity in this nation"
>die of a heart condition you've had since the war
>have your memory honored in your home state with a statue
>some liberal who will never accomplish anything close to your achievements wants your memory taken down from the public eye
>all because you chose to stay with your state and go against your own moral beliefs in order to protect your home

Feels bad man

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>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?
By the end of the day in Los Angeles hipsters will be defacing graves.

>>137573636
Lee was the greatest military leader and tactician in US history. Don't they have statues of Napoleon in France despite his eventual loss?

>>137573636
Vietnam War was about stopping Commies and it worked.

Not enough inbred leftist scum left to oppress dying people from behind a desk, "boohoo".

US victory, too bad rest of the world sat and watched or lived under this horrible oppression (a real one).

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>>137573636
Why have a 16ft statue of Lenin in Seattle? Don't see anyone screaming to remove.

>>137587405
>Vietnam War was about stopping Commies and it worked.
eh?
the commies took full control of vietnam after the war.
what the fuck do they teach you in school over there?

>>137587709
vietnam was a cold war battle is what he means

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>>137583891
>feeling proud

>>137586582
Yeaaa, I just looked into that. They wanted them sent back to Africa and were not at all worried about how expensive it would be to do so.

>>137587850
>vietnam was a cold war battle
which you lost

>>137587936
im not saying we didnt its nearly impossible to win defensive wars that you dont ever push in and conquer opposition territory

this only worked for us in korea it didnt work in the civil war or in vietnam you literally have to conquer opposition lands or you lose

>>137587899
I'd like to see a source on that, but even if it's true, my original point stands. The nation was founded on principles that were antithetical to the institution of slavery, which is exactly what the Confederacy stood for. Whether the nation was intended to be a white state is another question, and even if that were the case, I would argue that the importation of African slaves ran contrary to that ideal as well.

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>>137573636
> Build statue to honor the dead heroes of war.
> Centuries later, brainwashed idiots tear down a monument to the history of the conflict that claimed so many lives.

That they fail to understand history and that you fail to understand the virtues esposed by the glorious dead, should be glorified in death, speaks volumes to the state of the west. My contempt for you fools is like acid on my tongue. Even now, the wrath I feel, is like nothing i've felt before. The hate I have, is so accute, transcendant, that I feel as though I could kill a thousand of you senseless fiends and be without a drop of mercy.

>>137582370
LMAO
I actually have ancestors from that time period named robert E ...

>>137589795
>heroes of war
1) they lost
2) They fought for nothing but their own self-interest
3) Calm down

>>137587936
Death toll indicates otherwise.
>we withdrew, big difference.

>>137589398
It's pretty well known that Lincoln wanted to deport blacks back to Africa after slavery.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8319858/Abraham-Lincoln-wanted-to-deport-slaves-to-new-colonies.html

>>137573636
>why would you build a statue of someone who lost a war?
Go visit Scotland and tell them to tear down their statue of William Wallace at Edinburgh Castle for the same reason.

>>137590314
Okay, and Lincoln's greatest accomplishment as president was defeating the Confederacy and ending slavery. Are you saying that the confederate generals Lincoln defeated should be lionized because Lincoln later espoused separate racist beliefs?

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>>137590090
No, I won't, fuck you! Say something like this to my face, i'd have a proper go, you yankee cuck!

>>137573636
In my opinion, its so we don't forget why the war was fought. So we don't forget what both sides were fighting for.

>>137591014
lol

>>137581567
>>137581760

>I don't understand the underlying basis of the Civil War being States Rights versus the provided but limited of authority of the Federal Government.

Woo boy, there's a ton of ignorant feebs in this thread. I bet you guys still think the war was entirely about slavery and that was the motivation and cause that every Confederate soldier went to war under.

>>137591369
Hmmm I mean that's everyone's first pseudo intellectual realization about the war. Then you learn that what you described used slavery as the crux of their argument so you're right and so are the others.

>>137591369
>he fell for the States' rights meme
And what did these states want the "right" to do, specifically?

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>>137591348
Look at this worm, can't even bring himself to admit that he wants to forget every ill part of history, piss on the graves of the dead!

Shame, colonials. SHAME.

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>>137573636

It's important to not forget history and the mistakes made. Some of them were not slave-owners either.

>>137584501

With your logic French are gypsies kek. African/arab muslims are the French in 2100.

Yet is the only country with the balls to leave the EU NWO Superstate to regain sovereignty.

Macron is a NWO Bankster Rothchild.

Meet The Real Emmanuel Macron: Consummate Banker Puppet, Bizarre Elitist Creation

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-25/meet-real-emmanuel-macron-consummate-banker-puppet-bizarre-elitist-creation

>>137573859

Yet had a global Empire that stretched the world where the sun never sets.

>>137573636

lol, because he was a hero protecting the rights of half the country.

I'll just leave this here.
Trigger warning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvIU6VQAWpo

>>137574836

every one we ever fought in, single handedly. next question.

>>137573636
>>137573755
A lot of them weren't built before, around, or right after the war.
Rather it was years and years later as part of a concentrated effort across the country to create an "alternative narrative" about the war and create a physical rallying point for that narrative of the poor innocent brave noble true heroes of the war fighting for freedom and all that is just but barely being defeated because the other side cheated somehow or something.

Yorkshiremen have been flying the flag of a defeated people for 500 years and no one seems to care

>>137582704
>>137589832
yeah he can't know and all "historians" are kike liars so whatever we say is the truth is so by default XD

>>137592206
>we need to preserve the dark mistakes of history with respectful monuments to how great the people who made those mistakes were, also the whole slave thing was exaggerated anyway and dey good bois dindu nuffin
Clearly, a neutral party just calling for historical accuracy and education ;^)

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TEAR DOWN THIS LOSER STATUE RIGHT FUCKING NOW

>>137574483
>when you unironically feel the trail of tears wasnt far enough
I mean, itd be best for them and us.

>>137589795
Read the thread retard, they were not made after the war to honor the dead but LONG after as part of an effort to create an alternative history. It was just as much historical revisionism as you assume their removal is.
It'd be like if someone put up a monument in germany of hitler decades later that was all about how he was a good boy fighting for freedom against government overreach and dindu nuffin.

I get that's a popular /pol/ meme but just for a second step out from behind your many layers of protective irony.