I am a Marxist, ask me anything

What's the difference between "labour power" and "labour" according to Marx?

>>137290194
Why can't your shitty ideology (I know that word triggers you, but Marxism is objectively an ideology) ever work properly IRL?

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>>137290194

how does it feel being retarded?

>>137290194
> ask me anything
where does sage go?
report and kys
nigger kike commie fascist faggot diseased subhuman

why are you so weak minded you follow an outdated, well known fraud?

>>137290194
Why not learn basic ecomonics so you can stop being a Marxist?

>>137290194
Are you looking forward to sophomore year?

Why Marxists make pretend there is a distinction between price and value?

There isn't. Die in a fire.

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>>137290194
What is your secret for not being in jail for seizing the means of production.

>>137290515
>What's the difference between "labour power" and "labour" according to Marx?
One is just a conglomerate of the masses, the other is a way to overthrow the gov.

>>137290661
>Why can't your shitty ideology ever work properly IRL?
It transformed a peasant country into a superpower within a few decades.

>>137290773
>why are you so weak minded you follow an outdated, well known fraud?
It is better than believing in the shit that capitalism is and creates. You really want to live in this degeneracy of a world forever? REally?

>>137290942
>Why not learn basic ecomonics so you can stop being a Marxist?
I hold a PhD in economics and law.

>>137290974
>Are you looking forward to sophomore year?
That was over 12yrs ago... and we don't have sophomore years in Europe.

>>137291189
>Why Marxists make pretend there is a distinction between price and value?
Price is just what you set to facilitate an exchange of goods. Value is the inherent assignment of labour share to an asset in man-hours.

>>137290194
who do you blame for being a sub 80 iq retard?
your mom beating you?
not being breastfed?

>>137291377

Of course you have a PhD in economics and law. Sounds legit!

>>137290194

How's it feel basing your political ideology on a kike who wanted to kill everyone he disagreed with and was hated by everyone?

>>137291501
So there is no difference. Okay.

>>137291377
>It is better than believing in the shit that capitalism is and creates. You really want to live in this degeneracy of a world forever? REally?

obviously not. but submitting yourself to a bunch of arrogant jews is even worse.

>>137290194
How much money would every american get if all the money in the Forbes 400 were evenly distributed?

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>>137290194
What role do you think The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations currently places in politics and should or shouldn't going forward?

>>137291346
>What is your secret for not being in jail for seizing the means of production.
Look up later Marx' articles and works. He stopped advocating a violent overthrow of the system in the 1880s and argued for using democracy to get the workers (which makes up the vast majority of the people) in charge of society.

And as you may know, in most democratic countries these days, you have worker parties - unfrotunately most are corrupt and lost their way but many started out as essentially Marxist democratic parties such as Labour in the UK or the SPD in Germany.

>>137291377
>Ph.D in economics and law
No you do not.

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>>137290194

>>137291550
>How's it feel basing your political ideology on a kike who wanted to kill everyone he disagreed with and was hated by everyone?

How does it feel parroting off nonsense without actually having read the works of Marx?

I am all ears if you start criticizing Marxism by going all turbocapitalist von Mises on me, but just making stuff up? Not good.

fuck off commie

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>>137290194
>Putin: Soviet Government Was Mostly Jewish 80-85%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIeYoF1VhHc

>Winston Churchill exposes forces behind Communism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNcERXGcpEY

The Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:

Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Lourie (Larine) JEW
Ouritski JEW
Volodarski JEW
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) JEW
Smidovitch JEW
Sverdlof (Yankel) JEW
Nakhamkes (Steklof) JEW

The Council of the People’s Commissars:

Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) JEW
Food Schlichter JEW
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
State Control Lander JEW
State Lands Kauffman JEW
Works V. Schmidt JEW
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) JEWess
Religions Spitzberg JEW
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Hygiene Anvelt JEW
Finance Isidore Goukovski JEW
Press Volodarski JEW
Elections Ouritski JEW
Justice I. Steinberg JEW
Refugees Fenigstein JEW
Refugees (assist.) Savitch JEW
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski JEW

>>137291606
>So there is no difference. Okay.
A banana may have a price of 1 guilder. Its value, however, is 0.3 man-hours. As you set wages, the price moves, its value does not.

Where should I start if I want to learn your ways

>>137290194
Now that most of the points you presented in your book has been fixed by unions and collective bargaining by workers do you concede that capitalism has a lot of merit an that social democracy is sufficient AND effective compromise?

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>>137290194
Were you aware of how jewish dominated marxism originally was?
>>137291931
>>137292073

Have you ever read any economic book ?

>>137291705
>How much money would every american get if all the money in the Forbes 400 were evenly distributed?
Not much. this is not how the world works. You are indoctrinated to think in "money" terms, instead of seeing that everything you have and see is essentially driven by labour. If you make natural resources and land property of the public, then the question of our wealth and living standard essentially becomes one of how much labour we have to produce goods and services.

You can still have the free market in Marxism to set prices of assets, by the way. Look it up. But you set wages and own the means of production.

What happens when you run out of other people's money?

>>137292119
>As you set wages, the price moves, its value does not.
That is wrong though. Utter sophistry. Making a distinction between value and price is why communists can't even fees themselves.

>>137290194
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/6tex2g/message_from_rojava_apoists_to_western_anarchists/?sort=new

>>137290194
What color neon dye do you use?

So do all commies think they'll be high ranking party officials?

>>137292258
>Where should I start if I want to learn your ways
Marx' complete works. Then go from there, read some Childe, some Jon Elster or John Rawle's excellent work Theory of Justice.

>>137292404
>Were you aware of how jewish dominated marxism originally was?
My grandmother was Jewish. She fled Germany in 1935.

Jewishness has nothing to do with Marxism.

>>137290194
why do you want to let the jews control everything

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>>137290194
Please kill yourself?

>>137292968
>Jewishness has nothing to do with Marxism.
wow

How old is your wife's son

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>>137291377
>It transformed a peasant country into a superpower within a few decades.

What was the death toll of that?

>>137292347
>Now that most of the points you presented in your book has been fixed by unions and collective bargaining by workers do you concede that capitalism has a lot of merit an that social democracy is sufficient AND effective compromise?

I concede it to some part, but I believe that our modern social democracy has gone way too far allowing the capitalists take too much away from the workers and focusing too little on reducing unemployment.

Finland is a very good example of a high tax, historically social democratic country, which now has a high unemployment and large wage gaps. This is not what Marxism should aim for.

Someone like Mannerheim would be appalled by the state of things in Finland today.

>>137292119
>Its value, however, is 0.3 man-hours
What if you're lazy, because under communism everything is free and you have no reason to work other than the gun at your head, and the actual value is less than 0.1 man-hours? Wouldn't that throw the entire economy out of whack and cause it to collapse? What if it actually takes 0.3 man-hours, but someone on the production line fucked up and the whole thing has to be thrown out and all that time was wasted? What if someone spends shitloads of time lovingly making something that is actually completely useless and obsolete? How could you ever determine "man-hour" value? Who decides? Could you do this for every single thing anyone ever makes?

>>137291705
It won't be evenly distributed. Their money is their personal property and they will keep it. The factories and capital will be redistributed, however, and given to the working class. Marxism is just workers owning machinery

>>137292968
kek why do communist always lack such self awareness

they will never recognize communism is a Jewish survival strategy even if they literally say it in so many other words

>>137292488
You don't use other people's money. Socialism is just that workers own the machines they use, and own everything their machines produce

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>>137291377
>I hold a PhD in economics and law.

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>>137292968
>My grandmother was Jewish. She fled Germany in 1935.
>Jewishness has nothing to do with Marxism.
LOL. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

>>137290194
Was the soviet union socialist?
What is socialism?
Have you read bordiga?

>>137292405
>Have you ever read any economic book ?
Studied economics for 8 years and wrote my dissertation in the field of short form bank liquidity and economic consequences of central bank actions in the modern regulated world. We have essentially created a Marxist monetary system... which ends up being kept in private hands (retail banks that is) for no reason whatsoever.

>>137291377
I doubt you have a PhD in anything but if you do you should seriously consider asking for a refund

>>137293250
Marx actually directly addresses that point in Capital.

Valuation is based on *socially necessary* labor time.

As a smart person, you know that all those factors you talked about are socially unnecessary, so you can abstract them away and determine the socially necessary labor time required.

>>137291377
>It transformed a peasant country into a superpower within a few decades.
that wasnt the purpose of communism though, so your point is irrelevant and silly

why has communism never achieved its actual purpose? all i ever see in threads like this are communists bleating about how the soviet union industrialised or how Cuba mitigated poverty. as if you have to be communist in order to industrialise or to mitigate poverty. the uk industrialised pretty successfully without communism iirc

>>137291764
what the fug. source?

>>137292528
>That is wrong though. Utter sophistry. Making a distinction between value and price is why communists can't even fees themselves.
That is what you have been taught. But you are wrong. The price of an asset is what people pay for it, its value must always be represented in terms of man-hours invested (both direct costs and indirect costs such as environemntal or societal damage).

>>137293559
>*socially necessary*

and who decides this?

A: the higher ups - self-appointed gods

Capitalism turned even more peasant countries into even bigger super powers in the same time

>>137293023
>>Jewishness has nothing to do with Marxism.
>wow

Explain how Jewishness has anything to do with an economic theory that you can criticize or back up with reason?

>>137293126
>How old is your wife's son
Our daughter is 2 at the moment. We don't have a son, but maybe in a year or so - we want a second kid.

>>137290194
Do you oppose gun control?

>>137293140
>What was the death toll of that?
High, as the Soviet Union was pretty poor to start with. It would probably have been a lot higher without socialism. Also, it didn't really help to have a ruthless dictator at the helm.

>>137293497
>we have a Marxist monetary system

What a coincidence goyim.

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>>137292968
>I'm Jewish...but I'm a communist... Communism isn't Jewish!

EVERY FUCKING TIME

>>137293486
>Was the soviet union socialist?
Yes, in some areas a lot, in others not so much.

>What is socialism?
An economic system in which the state controls the ownership of resources and companies, thus allowing production in certain industries be shifted to areas of social good or national interest... and reducing unemployment to virtually 0 as jobs are available as many as required.

>>137291717
This was a serious question OP, I'm rather curious to know what a contemporary marxist thinks of tavistock.

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>>137293672
>That is what you have been taught.
Nope. That is empirical observation.

>>137293559
/this/

There is valid criticism of Marixism on many levels, but not on these very basic superficial levels some people like to attack.

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>>137293672

>>137294592
*mudpie argument against LTV*

>>137293686
No, you.
It should be fairly obvious. It's how you know what a fair price is.
By what other metric do you determine how much of your money something is worth?
How happy it will make you? Sure, that might enter in, but all goods make you happy in different ways. It's much more likely that you like at something and think, "should people have made that, and, if they did, how long should it have taken them" when you decide its price.
Capitalism would never have worked if it weren't easy to do this calculus.

>>137291377
You are fucking retarded, pretty much the whole world went from being a peasant society to an urban society right about at the same time, it was thanks to capitalist inventions btw.

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>>137293672
>>137294621

>>137293393
>>137294197
>>137293023
>>137293485
>Falling for the logical fallacy of poisoning the well

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>>137293672
>>137294824

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>>137294336
what do you think of this picture

>>137290194
Why is your "superiour" ideology always fails whenever it tried?

>>137293828
>Capitalism turned even more peasant countries into even bigger super powers in the same time

And it caused a lot of hardship in most of the world from Africa to Latin America to Eastern Europe to India and South East Asia. 80% of the countries in this world would be better off in a Marxist system rather than in a capitalist system.

Even in the 20% of the countries where capitalism works, it is highly restrained through socialist measures enforced by taxes and regulation.

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>>137294834
Do you think, overall, that jewish communism, i.e. marxism, has been good for white people?

Marxism is foremost a criticism of Capitalism. How it can be applied to real world politics can vary in numerous different ways.

How long until your comrades snitch on you and send you to the gulag?

>>137294834
But are you Jewish?

>>137295038
Marxism is a philosophy. Marx didn't come up with a party politics idea

>>137293962
>Do you oppose gun control?
For rifles suitable for hunting - yes. Hunting is a good sport and pasttime.

For handguns, I do not oppose gun control. I can hardly see a reason why anyone should walk into a shop and buy a handgun without having a valid purpose.

This also has little to do with Marxism.

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>>137290194
>Hides flag
Every time.

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>>137293672
>>137294908

>>137293962
I personally don't. There might be some kind of correlation between being able to own guns and gun violence but that doesn't mean there are some people who are not a problem.

>>137295104
>How it can be applied to real world politics can vary in numerous different ways
of which 0 (zero) worked so far!

>>137290194
What's it like being a non-human?

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>>137290194

>always ask yourself as a Jew "is it good for the jews?"

>>137295237
Spare me the semantics. Answer the question: why is it always failing?

>>137294347
Beyond my basic classes in organizational behavior, I have no in depth knowledge of group behavior theory. I cannot comment on that basis.

>>137295284
Like pottery

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>>137290194
Were his last words when communist agents from the Soviet Union killed him: "It wasn't really communism..." ?

Answer OP, we need to know.

>>137294787
>You are fucking retarded, pretty much the whole world went from being a peasant society to an urban society right about at the same time,
This is not correct.

Most countries in Europe and even the US went through the industrial revolution in the 19th century. Eastern Europe and Russia did not do so in full force.

>>137294762
>>137293559
>As a smart person, you know that all those factors you talked about are socially unnecessary, so you can abstract them away

this is why communism always fails.

you abstracted away the lack of care and laziness and whoops - I accidentally the whole production chain

>>137295473
It seemed to do rather well other than when Authoritarians make poor decisions that have nothing to do with marxism.

>>137295038
>Why is your "superiour" ideology always fails whenever it tried?
It fails just as capitalism fails. It just fails in different ways.

Every economic system fails, every society fails - the question is, are we failing in a way that ends up making 99% of us miserable as is the case right now, or in a way that makes us potentially less miserable?

>>137290194
Do you defend the LTV?

Do you think Marxist "economics" would actually increase the well-being of the average citizen? What evidence or theories do you have to back that up?

Do you think that subjective value (in the STANDARD use of the word value) has far-reaching implications in economics?

Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to claim a PhD in economics and not know the difference between labor and labor-power?

>>137290194
What's worse, having no food or having no toilet paper?

>>137295859
why didn't you answer my question?

>>137295634
It will help if you at least look up what Communism is. It was a failure to reach communism.

>>137293497

>implying any kind of marxist system doesn't end up in private hands

Listen you fucking retard, any system capable of transforming the world acquires a taste for survival in doing so. THEY WILL NEVER JUST FADE AWAY LIKE YOU MARXISTS HOPE THEY WILL. EVER.

>>137295793
>it fails every single time
>oh no it's not marxism at fault
so tell me, what person would you put in charge who would NOT make poor decisions huh? is it you? do you have all the answers?

because if it is, your comrades will stab you in your sleep the first chance they get

>>137295793
"it wasn't true communism"

>>137295284
>>Hides flag
>Every time.
What flag do you think I am hiding? Seriously, I wonder if you can guess my flag.

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>>137295979
You didn't answer my question.

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>>137295793
>IT WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM
Take it from a former communist kid and save yourself some time, you only have one life: yes, it had everything to do with marxism.

>>137290194
How many times did your mom drop you when you were a kid?

>>137296020
Communism isn't an ideology for quitters.

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>>137290194
You like helicopter rides?

>>137295104
it can't be applied because it's a hobo criticism of society.

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of rebolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism aggording to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD

>>137295063
>And it caused a lot of hardship in most of the world from Africa to Latin America to Eastern Europe to India and South East Asia
yeah, economic development isn't always a good thing psychologically. It's still a point in capitalism's favor.

>Even in the 20% of the countries where capitalism works, it is highly restrained through socialist measures enforced by taxes and regulation.
lel in the US the "socialist" measures are to take from the middle class and to give to the rich.

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>>137296036
9/10 chance it's leaf

>>137296118
Marxism is only the philosophy. Not the political party.

>>137295859
>Every economic system fails, every society fails
capitalism is doing pretty fucking well right now
you have a house
enough food to feed your family
insane luxury and tech out of your ass
you're filthy rich

>potentially less miserable
yeah because 30 million starving people is less misery than "skewed" wealth distribution

>>137290194
I haven't worked for six weeks and contribute very little to society, the doctor that lives next door has a mercedes, I don't have a mercedes so why isn't he in a gulag?

>>137296221
/thread
I'm stealing this pasta

>>137296036
Maybe he thinks you're from Portugal or Sweden or somewhere where economics education is a commie joke

>>137296273
>my ideology that was the basis of this political party is not the political party

>>137296273
the philosophy sucks.

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>>137295082
It has been good for Russians.

>>137290194

What is your name, race, and address?

>>137296323
The doctor under communism would see the pay for the labour he does.

>>137296381
No political partys ideology is "marxism", look into history. Ill give you a hint on where to start, Marxist-Leninism.

>>137296323
he's a party member

>>137296323
team up with your buddies and take his mercedes
what the fuck are you waiting for, obviously he stole it the system can't be wrong everyone is equal but he is more equal than us

>>137295879
>Do you think Marxist "economics" would actually increase the well-being of the average citizen?
Compared to the current form of half-capitalist, half-SJW welfare "bread and entertainment" system - yes. It would also advance humanity technically and socially.

>>137295879
>What evidence or theories do you have to back that up?
This was explained above. Read the thread.

>>137295879
>Do you think that subjective value (in the STANDARD use of the word value) has far-reaching implications in economics?
No.

>>137295879
>Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to claim a PhD in economics and not know the difference between labor and labor-power?
I explained it well. The information is also readily available on the internet. It is only relevant to know the difference for historic purposes though, as the differentiation is utterly meaningless in modern economics.

P.S. I hold a PhD in economics and law - very different thing than a PhD in economics. Look it up.

>>137296397
Its main goal is to end the exploitation of workers, how does that suck?

>>137296273
Yeah but the USSR and China and Laos especially followed Marxist ideology to the tee, except where it was obviously failing after only a year of implementation (Lenin's NEP comes to mind)

>>137296432
not at all. russia needed modernization, at least communism did this, but not very good.

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>>137296502
>It wasn't real communism though
i assume you know where you should fuck off back to :DDD

>>137295475
What do you think MKULTRA was all about?

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>>137296593
What does the goal matter when the method causes the opposite.
>My goal is to build more houses for people
>I burn down the neighborhood causing less housing
>GUUUYSSSS YOU HAVE to LOOK at my GOOAALSS

>>137296595
Marx didn't preach on how to run a country, they had to write a lot of their own rules

I have to go now, wife and kid need me.

Thanks for the discussion all. Have a good day.

>>137295692
Quite the contrary. It's an unfortunate reality that people are lazy. A communist will claim, however, that a big part of why people are lazy is because they feel alienated from their work.

Have you ever done a personal project and gotten really into it and worked several hours straight? Communists claim that that is how work is supposed to feel, and it's capital that's getting in the way.

>>137296854
God you people are pathetic

>>137296817
Marx never taught the method. He is a philosopher not a politician.

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>>137296273
It's not philosophy. It was a failed jewish plot to violently destroy white nations in conscious or subconscious revenge for 2,000 years of persecution and force equality for jews, or merely just greed and resentment. It benefits no one but jews and has caused misery and death for tens of millions of people, wiped out national elites and asset stripped entire major economies. That's why almost all communists, from Karl Marx, to the Soviets, the Spartacusbund, the Frankfurt School, and OP himself, were jews. Stop falling for their tricks.

>Hugo Chavez’s Favorite Daughter Is Richest Person in Venezuela
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/08/11/report-hugo-chavezs-favorite-daughter-is-the-richest-person-in-venezuela/

>$120 million bed-hopping hypocrite: He claimed he lived on $25 a month. But Castro had 20 luxury homes, a private island, an 88ft yacht - and mistresses galore
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3977050/100-million-bed-hopping-hypocrite-claimed-lived-20-month-Fidel-Castro-20-luxury-homes-private-island-88ft-yacht-mistresses-galore.html

>Kim Jong-un 'spent over $600m in a year' while North Korean citizens starved to death
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jong-un-spent-over-600m-in-a-year-while-north-korean-citizens-starved-to-death-9145059.html

>Heirs of Communist China's Eight Immortals 'have amassed huge wealth'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9767514/Heirs-of-Communist-Chinas-Eight-Immortals-have-amassed-huge-wealth.html

>Of the seven oligarchs who controlled 50% of Russia's economy during the 1990s, six were Jewish
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/02/russia.lukeharding1

>>137296942
It would help if you at least looked up marx.

>>137296593
marxism doesn't want classes (but classes are valuable), then it introduces its own classes (intelligentsija, management, worker)

>>137291377

>It transformed a peasant country into a superpower within a few decades.

what is HЭП.

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Let me just summarize the discussion for anyone who just scrolled back to here.

Real communism has never been tried.

>>137297119
this

>>137297119
BUT THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!

>>137296907
>Communists claim that that is how work is supposed to feel

then they're deluded.

On the one hand they like the tribal and inefficient society because there are no "discriminating" structures.

On the other hand they always want the same factories and efficiency the capitalist brothers have.

This is incompatible. You can live in a commune and have "enjoyment", but the commune will look like the dwelling place of hippies.

>>137290194

are you a US citizen so that I can report you for subversive activities?

>>137297035
It only wants to eliminate the bourgeois classes exploiting the workers. There will still be management getting paid for the work they do

>>137296432
Russian jews maybe. For actual russians, it caused tens of millions of deaths and miserable slavery for everyone else.

>>137290194
Why are you poor and gay?

>>137296566
>doesn't even address the LTV
top fucking kek.

>No.
Well then you're retarded. Take the fidget spinner or Veblen goods as examples, or price discrimination.

>>I explained it well.
No you didn't, retard. You don't even know one of the basic definitions (labour-power) of the ideology you follow.

>This was explained above. Read the thread.
I see no good evidence being provided. Feel free to link me to it.

> half-SJW welfare "bread and entertainment" system
>which is mostly the fault of commies and lefties shilling for it

>>137297119
Read Marx. Communism isn't something that happens over night.

>>137297314
No one is exploiting any workers. Workers are free to join businesses by consent or live a life of communist luxury on welfare.

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>>137297314
how weak scrawny and inferior in every way are you?

>>137297610
Communism isn't something that happens at all. It is deader than dead, because the jews have dropped it having figured out other ways to get what they want.

>>137296036
CANADA, possibly Spain? Please tell me

>>137297676
The strong are the ones who excel under communism. Any capital owner under capitalism can make it big

Is there such a thing as as kosher cannibalistic diet?

>>137292347
As would all people be appalled what their childen wrought. Societies will change again and again. Personally i would think he would find it adequate at the least after initial shock and grumble about values.

And as for the workers go problem there is a global markets, nations are forced to compete with other nations and that leads to efficiency problems. Is one of the reason why EU MIGHT have some good results: Unified workers rights, insurances and wages.

And as for wage gabs go... personally in country where EDUCATION IS FREE you cannot truly blame no one but yourself of your wages. Anyone could get back to school, draw student benefits and make himself new career.

In my mind we do not need equality of outcome, all we need is Equality of the MINIUM outcome. Where the state picks those who are a mess tries to straighten them up and then give a small pat on the head and send them back to run and play with the other children.

>>137297932
that wasn't my question

>>137297314
so, marxism will give me stuff, but it will not give me equal social value or status

>>137297629
They don't earn the wages they make from the fruits of their labour. The capital owner takes a part of their wage just for owning capital.

>>137290194
>ama brah
>needs other leftybois as backup
pathetic desu

>>137298059
the labourers also did not plan, did not make sacrifices for the garden to exist.

They just show up and want money in their hands.
ok, you can receive money in the end of the day, just do this and this.

>>137292968
SPOTTED

>>137298052
People aren't equal, people will always be doing different jobs and divide themselves. Marxism is more about making sure you get paid for the work you do without any trickery due to whose land you made it on

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>>137296566
>>137298059
>What evidence or theories do you have to back that up?
>This was explained above. Read the thread.
That's a lie. I just read each and every single one of your comments, and you have provided absolutely NO evidence or even arguments that support your worldview. All you have said is "socialism is better than capitalism".

>They don't earn the wages they make from the fruits of their labour. The capital owner takes a part of their wage just for owning capital.
Which is reasonable considering that the capital the capitalist provides 1) is costly and a result of R&D, which needs incentivizing and 2) makes the worker much more productive.

>>137292347
>>137298002
Yeah yeah clicked the wrong thing, i blame the capitalistic infiltrators.

>>137297932
also are you aware of the slavic proverb under gommunism
"they pretend to pay us we pretend to work"
but knowing you larpers your retort will be something along the lines of
>that only happened because it's not real gommunism

>>137298390
In that case I think worker rights already did a very good job. I would prefer this route.

>>137298446
>>137293206
I will just go shoot myself now.

>>137298266
If planning is considered work you will be paid for it. I'm not an expert on how it is done but management still need to be paid since they are also workers

>>137298059
Yes. And they are aware of that and consent to it. They're not as dumb as you think, and especially not cattle for you to play with in some political game. They just want to be left alone. Literally no one but a few dumb goyim students brainwashed by jews cares.

>>137290194
What are you doing here?

Is OP still here? Should i read marxist theory? Im dissapointed in the right

>>137290698
This

>>137298564
Because we don't have the option to get paid fairly doesn't mean we should meekly accept being cucked by capitalism

>>137298614
This is a board to discuss politics is it not?

>>137298550
so then communism forces everyone to be a wage worker. This is already a thing but it will be enforced even more - you can't try to reach financial freedom

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>>137296642
Still they managed to run the country in away where they did have higher life expectancy.

>>137298845
could be, the picture doesn't show this though, it just shows population

>>137292879
Read some Bakunin you state worshiping cunt.

>>137298776
Right politics, not left.

>>137299058
Bakunin and Marx had the same end goal.

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>>137290194
How do Marxists think the will be able to suppress nationalist/ethnocentric urges among the billions of nonwhites in the world, especially if you espouse open borders?

How would you prevent over-population and over-consumption of resources due to an economy based on the will of plebs with "gibsmedat" as their mantra?

>>137290194
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?

>>137299298
>marxist
>think
pick one and only one

>>137298702
No one is being cucked. You can choose to work for someone else, or you can use a little enterprise and do whatever you want. Literally the dumbest nigger on earth can buy some tools and make himself free. You are FREE to be a man, free and independent. You don't have that option under communism. That is the only difference. You still have to work for some cunt, although this time it's some anti-white kike party boss who's asset stripped your economy and put himself and his friends in all the nice houses, abolished your culture and wants to replace you with less independent-thinking shitskins out of pure racial hatred. For you.

>>137299298
Open borders has nothing to do with communism. It would be your "anti-globalism" ideally.

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ITT

The fucking communists are right after all
>>137299297
So Bakunin is an anarchist and wishes that the state should be destroyed during the revolution and Marx wants a state transition?

>>137292475
Yeah they tried that in the Ukraine retard and all they got was the holodomor.

You need a helicopter ride

>>137299297
why are you not providing retorts you subhuman?
i thought you were here to BTFO pol?

>>137299574
Communism is stateless, Marx just thought the state was necessary in order to reach that

>>137291764
So rather than seize the property by violence you will instead seize the property via violence

Not much difference and you are still a piece of shit scum bag arse fucker who should be shot

Oh and Marx was one of the most evil men to have ever lived

>>137296137

>"Unicorn blood can be used to power a perpetual motion machine!"
>"We tried rhino blood and horse blood and giraffe blood and it didn't work."
>"BECAUSE IT WASN'T REAL UNICORN BLOOD"

Your ideology is utopian nonsense. It will always fail.

>>137299509
I can't just go out and buy millions of dollars of land and equipment and then have a change in heart and decide I want to do something else

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>>137299516
I literally just got through arguing with a chat thread full of ~30 communists on Twitter, and all of them are raving SJWs who support open borders, and nationalism for BLM, La Raza, etc.

I know some elements of Marxism extol "patriotic socialism" that is more nationalistic (Stalinism, Juche, etc.); but the reality is that in modern Western World, virtually 90% of commies are SJW-types. I don't think you could build a nationalist platform with those people as your base.

>>137299832
what government body is powerful enough to enforce the disbandment of the government?

>>137299925
Its really not all that difficult to understand the elimination of private capital. You are getting confused on what Marxism means

>>137299999
Checked.
Its a common argument here, 'just start a business bro'. Bullshit

>>137299999
>I can't just go out and buy millions of dollars of land and equipment
Yes you can. But you don't need millions of dollars to be free from "capitalist exploitation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_red_paperclip

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>>137298989
I`m aware of that.
But what do you think is behind the economic and social and population collapse since 1991?

>>137299571

>funny epic mispell of 'hitler'
>clearly cropped
>books, of all things

The left just can't meme

>>137299999
>>137300236
Also, you can organise with other like-minded people and form your own marxist commune virtually free from interference by the government. Even if you are all poor as fuck, in literally any country in the West, you can do this.

>>137300328
>memes
You guys are like children

>>137300532
A lot are I'm sure

>>137300532
>>137300270
>>137300131
can you subhumans answer me this >>137300060

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>>137300058
SJWs are liberals, and they call themselves communists, because it pisses off conservatives. In fact, every liberal position is basically the opposite of conservativism.

>>137300732
It's up to the proletarian to disband the government, you can't trust the ruling class to do things for you

>>137300058
commies and socialist who dislike IDpol are the ones who you should be listening too if you want some insight into communism

>>137300872
how can you do this when you're unarmed against the police?
also you didn't provide an argument as to how that will happen
you just said it will

>>137300532
>>137300717

you guys just aren't funny, you're not interesting, your dead ideology is played the fuck out.

and you get ran over LMAO

>>137299571
except you're the ones trying to invade /pol/ with your butthurt

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>>137290194
Do you really think USSR and North Korea had/has the best system? If we would find a stable method to end exploitation of proletariat in capitalism would you support it(capitalism)?

>>137300940
SJWs openly
>reject egalitarianism
>reject universalism
>peddle essentialism
They are right-wing.

>>137300058
I like Zizeks whole opinion on the matter

https://qz.com/767751/marxist-philosopher-slavoj-zizek-on-europes-refugee-crisis-the-left-is-wrong-to-pity-and-romanticize-migrants/

>>137300732
Not really relevant question since the transition would be gradual and based on building autonomous self-sufficient worker communes that would come to replace government in all its functionality.

>>137300058
nod true gommunists xDDD

it's what their little ideologies all lead to

>>137301435
not an argument
why would stalin reject power?

>>137299832
Which goes to show that Marx was retarded and wrong and his political theories should be criticized so that we can find the mistake and not repeat the same shit over and over.
The left can't accept that though, because Marxism isn't just a theory anymore, it's a dogma.
There aren't many real anarchists in the left, most of you are just bootlicking state-socialists mad because you don't control the state. You retards are against the current state, not the idea of states. Just think about it, what state would voluntarily dissolve itself? Can a single one of you bootlicking morons answer me that?

>>137300872
Then why put them in power to begin with? It is self defeating to rely on one form of authoritarianism to fight another, you still end up with a boot on your neck.

>>137300940
>>137300842
I'm just saying, the majority of Marxists in the West are massive cucks and SJW idpol fans.

I know you guys think you're "real communism", but you're a minority.

>>137290194
You trying to catch the new Marvel movie?

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>>137301589
Decades of purging communists, McCarthyite propaganda and COINTELPRO will do that.

>>137301035
The people would learn to work on their own without needing a government to lead them, if the state rejects the destruction of it then it's no longer socialist, and by the way the police as you know it is more about protecting capital than protecting the community, so it would be a different form of organization
>>137301043
Spoken like a middle schooler, is summer not over yet?

>>137290194
Do you want to die by hanging or by getting thrown out of a helicopter?
Sage

>>137301571
That's why there's such a big split on the left, anarchists believe all power corrupts (like me) others believe in creating a state which i disagree with unless it's form by trade unions and worker unions or councils/communes, i don't like the vanguard party system that the Marxist-Leninists want and i believe it's part of the reason why the socialist states of the past failed

>>137301589
even posters on leftypol and other hugboxes unironically jerk off to the black panthers and radfems. some of them at least have the self awareness to know that acting like a raving sjw is embarrassing and try to distance themselves from it.

but it's all very shallow.

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>>137301589
Also, no Postmodernist shit. Truth is not democratically elected. A bunch of liberals running around calling themselves communist doesn't make it true.

>suddenly we have to respect people's chosen pronouns

>>137300126

>build an entity that can eliminate private capital
>this entity will then wither and die

The second part will never happen. An entity that can achieve the first will necessarily acquire enough self-protective character to avoid the second. Communism will never be reached, and it will always fall back to state capitalism or something similar. Perpetual motion also isn't that difficult to understand, just impossible given the rules of physics. Same with communism.

>>137302146
At least make better memes, it's like when leftypol keeps spamming the guillotine shit, we get it

>>137302223
>/leftypol/
>jerking off to radfems
Wot?

>>137301959
not an argument
no totalitarian government will willingly refuse power
also
>implying the state won't still use any label they wan't to remain in power
also
>muh special police will be full of butterflies and sprinkles

>>137301589
We are currently in the middle of purging Canadian communist party form idpol, its only matter of time.

>>137302359
want*** it's late

>>137302270
Well you are right about the state not withering away just like that, honestly i believe in autonomous communities and small councils for each, always thought that the vanguard party just doesn't meet up the expectations of the proletariat

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>>137302238
>>137301904
>>137302370
So when are we going to see red-flag-waving commies in the streets of the West protesting Muslim immigrants and minority nationalist groups?

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>>137302330
Get the fuck back to leftypol you fucking mongrels

>>137302359
Thing is that it doesn't have to be totalitarian, Stalin isn't the representative of socialism, still big governments shouldn't be the ones managing society after the revolution, people should

>>137302351
that's what i thought too. turns out the whole "we're not like those OTHER leftists" shtick was just that.

>>137302588
Not any time soon, liberals had hegemony over the West for decades. It will happen within your lifetime, though.

>>137290194
You should join us

>>137302588
Hopefully never, activism without revolutionary intent is opportunism.

>>137302664
Kulaks starved the ukrainians, not the soviet government

>>137302588
never. that would go against everything they've done in the west.

>>137302801
you your self said that the state is needed for the transformation to statelessness
ergo you need a totalitarian state to enforce the massive amount of laws
i'm asking as to what the mechanism of this transformation is
what government body is larger than the state?

>>137302919
where

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>>137302940

>>137290194
Why not support Eurasianism?

>>137303152
>we should participate in the bourgeois politics

Fuck off troskite scum.

>>137290194
b8

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>>137303046
G E T
T H E
F U C K
O F F
O U R
B O A R D

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>>137303563
>needing safe spaces

>>137303114
The government is only supposed to reform the economy of the country, if the government decides to regulate everything then it's an authoritarian piece of shit and already another problem, the theory of Marxist-Leninists is that the state fades away because it's no longer useful since everything has been regulated to the point where it's full blown socialism, though i think that's a little wishful thinking

>>137303563
I will when my wife comes home and we go to eat :)

>>137303563
>'your' board
ours now faggot

>>137303789
indeed you do.

>>137303850
the state is needed to enforce the laws you retard
not economy
l a w s
l e g i s l a t i o n
and for a state to be able to enforce legislation such as the abolition of private property it is authoritarian
now tell me how you can go from a totalitarian state to "real" communism

>>137302216
>i don't like the vanguard party system that the Marxist-Leninists want and i believe it's part of the reason why the socialist states of the past failed

I guess I agree with you on that much then. Has the rift between the Marxists/Leninists/state-socialists and actual anarchists gotten worse? I haven't followed much leftist stuff since I was an edgy teenager around ten years ago (not trying to be condescending, it was around the same time I found this shithole lol) but I remember being turned off by how many supposed anarchists were reciting the same talking points as the bootlicking state-socialists. It always seemed as if the primary enemy was capitalism, followed by racism, sexism, homophobia, various other SJW causes, etc. with THE STATE barely making the top ten. I can't imagine it's gotten any better since then.

>>137304069
couldn't even make a "beachhead".

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>>137301589
we know...

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I wake up with a smile everyday knowing communism died 27 years ago and will forever be nothing but a joke

>>137301959
>if the state rejects the destruction of it then it's no longer socialist,

"Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship to safeguard the revolution. One makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."-Orwell

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>>137303850
I don't think anarcho-anything would work IRL, because splitting the economy and nation into what are essentially "labor union tribes" would restrict the ability of geographically-specific resources to be traded evenly.

For example, an iron mine in one tribe's territory would belong to them, and they could decide to only mine enough for themselves and few neighbors, and other regions of the landmass would not get enough iron. Under capitalism and/or state-control, the iron mine's resources could be taken by force, or provided with trade goods from another area to an extent that the miners are willing to work and extract more iron in exchange. The key is having a hierarchical figure to control and allocate many resources across long distances.

>>137290194
How is it feels to be so pathetic?

>>137300842
>That image

I think you fail to realize that all duality exists because of poles generating each other.

The moment you establish a classless society without a government, someone will see the vacuum and assume power.

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>>137304798
>communism is a joke
>communism died
>Swede waking up with a smile
Sure thing.

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>>137290194
Communism is a Jewish stain on humanity.

Why did Hitler hate jews? Rabbi Yosef Tzvi ben Porat will explain to you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYSv_YQOVo

If you're a self-hating white communist, you are the worst of Shabbos goyim, probably indoctrinated in (((college))).

You're basically acting like Jews because you're following the Jewish manual, whether it's the Communist Manifesto by (((Marx))), Rules for Radicals by Saul (((Alinsky))), all the Frankfurt School bullshit from Jews like Marcuse, Adorno, Horkheimer...

You are the definition of useful idiots. The only ones who will benefit when whites are gone or if you get a "revolution" is Jews and no one else. Stop hating yourselves.

The thing is, leftists does not work, most neo-commies never worked in their life yet they claim to be "the working class".

They live with their parents, and their parents does not vote left.

Not to mention they like to cry about "ebil nazis" yet the nazis were actually "the workers' party" (which is today the name given to communists), nazis were the first socialists to succeed, between the capitalism and the communism.

>>137304863
Orwell was a libertarian socialist and fought for the communists in the spanish civil war
>>137304441
it's shit as always

>>137304798
You sound obsessed kid

>>137305395
>post pic of a pro-immigration idpol cuck

Alright im new to leftism so im just gonna leave for a while and eat some brownies ok

>>137305400
>Orwell was a libertarian socialist and fought for the communists in the spanish civil war

Which is part of what informed his later writing. You fail to address the point and instead non-sequitur into history.

>>137305520
so you are unable to reply with a coherent argument
commies are literal subhuman 60 iq retards

>>137305650
No, he was always a socialist his whole life

If you're white you realize most of your comrades hate you right?

>>137305675
You need to fucking read in order to understand communist theory, it's not just looking at the wikipedia article and claiming yourself as an expert, try to read Das Kapital without any prior knowledge

>>137305400
Didn't the Spanish anarchists burn nuns alive?

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>>137305398
Useful idiots!!!!!

>>137305910
Comrades don't give a shit about race or gender, the only thing that matters is the class, the rest is useless identity politics that split us even more than ideology

>>137299571
>Dude just read this book I don't have to have an argument.

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>>137305948
and yet you still couldn't provide a proper counter argument
really makes me think

>>137291976
How do you feel that Marx viewed humans as cattle who were to be used and disposed off when they lost their value?
>nvr hapen
Theses on Fuerbach

>>137305948
What's more to understand?

Capital = means of production

Marxists want to give the "capital" to the hands of the workers, and there are multiple steps to the process, including totalitarian "vanguard theory" or just plain anarchism.

Everything else is just sophmoric. Marx wrote a bunch of shit about how capitalism is "sexually repressive" and that the family unit was too patriarchal. He was one of the first major SJWs.

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>>137306111
>bell curve doesn't exist
>GO READ A BOOK
gets the ol noggin joggin eh, lad?

>>137305738
>Still failing to address the point while parroting socialist talking points

Orwell was clearly writing against totalitarianism first and foremost. Animal farm was clearly an allegory about Soviet Russia.

Moreover, the quote I posted is true for all political systems. You can't just derail with non-sequiturs. Once you seize power, you won't give it up, because by your own words power is corrupting.

Why do you want to exterminate white people from the face of the earth?

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Why can't you BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS?

>>137300058
This is why I think we need to co opt communism and take it from these fags and cucks and make it "manly" and it will appeal to people like trumps base. Thoughts?

>>137306487
because they're propagandized sub 90 IQ 8th graders

>>137306111
Sure keep telling yourself that. Go on any anarchism or communist forum and they're always talking about the patriarchy and the evil white man.

>>137290194
do you like helicopters?

>>137306126
Argument to what? the totalitarian state? It's supposed to wither away because people can already govern themselves, the state is supposed to be concerned on the well being of the people not their own wallet
>>137306275
There's much more to that but ok

>>137306716
Where do you go id like to know

>>137290194
Is there any actual proof of Hegalianism or inverted Hegelianism (Marxism)?
Could Marx or Lenin have predicted Stalin?
Why did the five year plans fail so utterly? (Maybe you aren't an economist)
Why are you so opposed to Traditionally liberal values when they are morally superior to Marxist values? For example, everyone should live according their means and to their talents, everyone should work together, everyone should be provided for, these are liberal values at the heart of progress and tradition, yet you deny them when they are not in YOUR hands. It's almost as if Modern Marxism is just a power play used by the wealthy against the unwitting to create a morally bankrupt class of slaves who hold their equality in being slaves as the highest value. Marx and Engels would be appalled.
How did you read the communist manifesto and not realize Marx was wrong?
Feudalism with Nobles and Peasants didn't arise out of Patricians and Plebians as Marx and Engels claim. It was a Celtic/Germanic social structure which worked for them but not for the non-Celtics/Germanics.
Capitalism did not arise out of Feudalism or Barter economics either. It arose out of independent agrarianism mixing with mercantilism.
Marx and Engles are literally factually incorrect. Their dialectical materialism might be sound, but no men before them thought of class and economics as the driving force of society. Also they discount part of their own historical theory by reducing everything to class warfare because you can't reduce Monarchichal society to only two classes. They even said that when they critiqued the church, then they of course contradicted themselves in the communist manifesto with the discourse on historical class warfare.

Marxism is 19th century mysticism. You're delusional for thinking it is a serious philosophical system.
>ebin revolution
Which was led by the church in the name of equality before God and respect for the dignity of man. Father Gapon is persona nongrata

>>137306693
>>137306817
im getting cancer from all these cultural marxist memes

>>137306821
no you stupid faggot
reading comprehension
for someone who prides themselves on reading you're really fucking shit at it
what is the Mechanism behind the abolition of the state
i don't want a shit non argument like
>muh proletariat can govern themselves
i want the actual Mechanism

>>137307100
i didn't post a meme
only truth

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Why are people on /pol/ so close-minded?

>>137306821
Why have a "state" in the first place. Why not let the people actually govern themselves.
If they wish to be capitalist/communist/monarchist, socialist/libertarian/fascist. Why not let them be?
You think you do them a favor by saying "you can govern yourself, unless I don't like it."???
You're insane.

>>137296593
And to achieve its noble goal, it sets up an overly powerful government which has a 95% (give or take 10%) chance of becoming a horrible dictatorship.

>>137307340
why aren't you in class young man
6th period is starting right now!

>>137296593
Define "exploitation"

>>137307116
There's no literally no fucking instruction manual for the abolition of state, no one made a fucking textbook explaining people on how the detroy the thing after the fucking revolution it has literally never gotten to the point where the abolition of the state has been posible
>>137307234
No, you posted a fucking strawman, ask a fucking teacher on marxsim and most will tell you that it's le evil sobiet empire, if the jews and the education system is enforcing marxism on the youth why are we still living on a capitalist society

>>137307465
Well that's why im an anarchist i don't even know why im trying to defend state socialism that i barely know anything about

>>137307741
Why abolish the state at all?
Why not abolish all individuals? Or should they rule over their individual self? Well why stop there? Why not let them rule others or check themselves and submit to whom they wish?
>why are we still living in a capitalist society
We aren't.
>le ebil onion
Very few teachers say this.

>>137307741
so you don't know?
and you're so unimaginative and unidealistic that you've never thought about it yourself
that's the problem with you degenerates
you don't take the logical steps like every other sound ideology
you read your little textbook and memorize what you need to do
you're boring, bland, stupid and not creative
also i thought that you're a europoor
in a lot of schools here communism is shown in a favorable light

>>137308018
We are still living on capitalist world, but can you tell me why you don't believe we are?

>>137308010
If you're an anarchist then why not be a tribalist or an odalist? Rousseauean anarchism is certain death and failed every time, it's like Man vs Wild global edition.
Are you opposed to people living in families and having familial or tribal societies?
Not as in renouncing technology, but as in having a "state" as in a local leader that everyone turns to for advice or leadership, but he wouldn't have any sort of absolute power (he counldnt sentence someone to death for instance)

>>137308293
Thanks for the insult motherfucker, we are all so bright and smart like you that we can create our own brand of ideology right

>>137308293
Stop calling people degenerates out of their political association, you thug.

>>137308537
>says the marxist
laughter