This upsets the ancap

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>>136875047
Except the peasants were bound to the land and unallowed to leave. If the peasants had been allowed to leave, thus forcing the feudal lords to compete for their labor, thus giving the peasants better living conditions, then you might have a point.

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>>136875047
Most ancaps (on /pol/ anyway) seem to agree with Hoppe that the monarchist tradition of paying rent to a king who manages property is a superior way to manage land and government. Their main gripe seems to be that they'd rather have it more decentralized (more kings, more fiefdoms = more options) than, say, the Roman or Mongol Empires would have allowed.

>my deed my land
my gun my life
my cock my wife
THE ANCAP CREED
you're just a jealous faggot because you don't have the balls to work for everything you have

>>136875047
kek
truly cancer ancaps are

>>136875047
>logical fallacies, ahoy!

>>136875879

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>>136875879
*

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>>136875047

I've thought about it recently too. Would work except land lords can evict people but they don't have monopoly right to imprison you (jail time for crimes). Need something else to permit enforcing laws beyond eviction.

Could have adults sign enforcement contracts or evicted. And parents are required to enforce on their kids until they are 18. Then at 18 you either sign or go to another country.

Would also have to be a natural homesteading limit on land ownership by one person; meaning more local lords and barons. Having a king as a uniting factor for common defense.

Shit, now I'm neo-reactionary and would rather see a return to the medieval system.

Ancaps don't think that the first person to see the Continent can say "that's mine" and take it all.

>>136875047
Monarchy is literally end stage ancap.
Idiots don't seem to realize that anarcho-anything is only ever transitional

>>136875670
this desu
Monarchy is better than Democracy by this perspective because in Monarchy at least 1 guy is guaranteed to not have his property violated

>>136879293
Banishment used to be a thing.
If you break the laws (violate the NAP or the landlord's rules) they kick you the Fuck out and kill you if you come back

>>136875047
stupid commie

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I'm more partial to city states as they originally were. Basically governments don't use money, they get everything they need by distributing obligations in exchange for rights and privileges. For example to have the right to own land you must agree to serve in the army.

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>>136875047

>>136875047
You're the king? Well I didn't vote for you

>>136881153
>ancap not getting it
imagine my shock

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>>136878393
muh evil coorperation oppressing the people run by people for the people of the people by the top people in the EVIL COOPERATION. EVIL EVIL EVIL.
Money=Evil

>>136878393
>2002
Spotted the commie

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>>136883057

>>136875047

He's literally right though. Living rent-free on MY land is unacceptable.

>>136875670
A monarch will also have to think about the consequences for his heirs.

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this is now a gadsen thread

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>>136884027

>>136875047

Real question. How are land "rights" determined in an ancap society. Alright it is easy to see why your house and surrounding property belong to you, but how would large purchases of land work? Could anyone just stand in a field and claim it it belongs to them? If there is no government to auction off land who would?

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>>136875047

This is why ancap are retarded. a libertarian nightwatchman state is the right amount of government.

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>>136884140

>>136880795
Got any more info on city states and their political organisation?

>>136875047
this doesn't really upset me

>>136884159
Could you imagine the bidding process?

>20 bags of potatoes!
>do I have any other offers?
>7 soviet era AKs!

>>136875670

biggest argument against monarchies is Europe's own downfall

Hoppe is a hack fraud

>>136875879
But this is exactly the problem with capitalism. Under capitalism you can earn money simply by owning property (and not working). Capitalism is literally the only economic system that guarantees people the possibility of earning money without working.

>>136875047
L.O.L.

Based O.P.

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>>136875047
>What stopping you
Nothing you fucking statist. We already did.

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>>136875585
>>136875879
>>136881153
>>136883057
>>136884859

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>>136885382

>>136875670
In your opinion, they support a monarchist tradition, Anon. What would they say if the king wants to establish a religion in order to increase the stability in his kingdom?

>>136885457
Libertarians thing that people are good, and should be left to their own devices
Statists think that people are evil, and should be controlled under fear of death.

>>136879856
That only worked because there were only a few million people and lots and lots of empty space everywhere to banish them to.

>>136875047
How do ancaps handle prisons?

>>136875047
>commie does not realize the concept of property
Ancap adheres to the Lockean theory of private property. It says the right of ownership comes only after mixing one's labor with wild resource and transforming it to something useful. Wild land can not be owned. Feud's and commiestate's claims of ownership were unjustified.

If your are a marxist, consider reading the article "Marxist and Austrian Class Analysis" where professor Hoppe argues that exploitation shall be defined as "obtaining property in non productive and non contractual way". Unlike Marx's, this definition fits to any century. Violation of this rule leads to exploitation.
https://mises.org/system/tdf/9_2_5_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

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>>136884027
Divine monarchy is the answer

>>136885025
its simple. we will the bourgeoisie

>>136885025
its simple, we kill the bourgeoisie

>>136883507
holy fuck that is hilarious (and sad)

>>136886033
>How do ancaps handle prisons?
As commercial institutions where prisoners have to work to get daily meal and keeped until they pay out the compensation to a victim.

>>136883843
Kek'd

>>136886615
Where is the authority derived to capture, detain, convict and imprison someone?

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>>136886310
>>136886170
Do you ever get tired of shilling this crap?

>>136884318
>nightwatchman state is the right amount of government.
And who would restrain this state from growing as the US did since 19 century?

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All time favorite

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>>136886922

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>>136875047
Maybe I will have my own country. Does this violate the NAP?

>>136886821
They don't want to consider this because that means investing in a system and they want to play the parasite.

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>>136886912

A constitution, like ours but we'd be even more explicit what the government may not do. But government will grow anyways, you can only do your best to slow and restrain it. There is no system that completely stops government growth. It's taken ~240 years to fuck up a beautiful country and system. Maybe the next time we can hit 1000 years.

>>136887239
>Tfw you will never know the perfect merciful swiftness of a guillotine death

>>136887375
>the united states was fine up until last year
Anon...

>>136884159
>how would large purchases of land work?
Societies has always managed to develop institutions to register important agreements. Marriage ceremony is the way to make neighbors and relatives remember the marriage contract. Church also kept records. And for now people have developed the blockchain which is a registry.

>>136884159
>If there is no government to auction off land who would?
You don't need auction. Just take land for free and use it.

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>>136875047

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>>136887807

kek

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>>136887506
This; the blockchain is the perfect technology to record property transfers without a government. Pre-mine the entirety of the coin, assign each coin to a property and thus the original owner, and when the owner transfers property to a new wallet address the blockchain reflects the sale of that property and the new title holder is recorded in the blockchain.

>>136887506
I think you should go into one of these "take a test to determine what kind of politics or philosophy you have" threads when they come about here and realise that lots of libertarian types here have no concern about religious and moral traditions, and beacause those are integral to functional ethnicities, now you can understand why libertarian and An.-Caps. get laughed out of the place so often. You might have the right answer here, but the others want no part in such loyalty (instead they want to play the parasite).

>>136875047
um no i own my property, this is what america was basically founded on.

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>>136885999
Trips

>>136875047
Rights don't exist.

>>136887807
I'll admit, Intellectuals and Society makes some pretty good arguments, for jungle bunny literature.

>>136887375
Who would enforce the institution? Who would make the judgement if it was violated or not? Both this functions belong to state police and state court. People themselves will not organise fast enough to fight the violation. They have other business to do, than to defend some gays... some rich businessmen, some media owners, some gun owners. And in the end you find out there is no one left to stand with you.

The only way to restrain government is competition. When countries have to compete with each other, they lower taxes to attract investment.

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>>136888072
>religious and moral traditions
>integral to functional ethnicities
>thinks of himself as "white"
>56%
Who gets laughed out of the place so often again?

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>>136888000
>Conductor we have double trips!

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>>136888473
This; if monopolies are bad for business and social wellness everywhere else, then why does the government get a monopoly on making and enforcing laws and regulations and collecting taxes to do so? Why not be able to choose between McGovernment, Government Lite, I can't believe it's not government, and Government Black, Red, and Blue labels?

>>136888296
Ah that's the only thing I've picked up from him outside of excerpts or articles and I thought it came off as whiney and obviously one sided. I disagree with him on most things but he's as articulate as it comes for the points he is trying to make. I question his authenticity.

>>136888072
>lots of libertarian types here have no concern about religious and moral traditions
I don't have it too. This is outdated shit mostly usless in the modern world.

>>136888473
> literally did not google night-watchman state

>>136886821
>Where is the authority derived to capture, detain, convict and imprison someone?
It is derived from the right to selfdefense, that a victim delegates to his relatives, friends and protection agency.

>>136889233
oh my god you lot really are retarded arent you?

>>136889364
people being greedy would incentivise them to compete with a monopoly.

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>>136889316
> parents shouldn't have a monopoly on children, they should compete in the open market for parental rights with strange men who own ice cream trucks

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>>136886912

Don't let in blacks and don't let women vote. That would have solved the government growth question.

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>>136888899
Why do you need a state for military, the police, and courts?
>military
US military operations routinely involve private contractors now. Private contractors have more incentive to keep soldiers alive and to choose less risky field maneuvers because they literally have to pay for every death and loss of equipment. Private contractors are easier to control because there is no governmental immunity from being sued, and private contractors are more likely to be governed better because the commander-in-chief isn't decided by blockheads voting for more gibs.
>police
Overlaps strongly with the above with more emphasis placed on the ability to sue for misconduct. Also, private police are less likely to focus on stupid shit like enforcing minor traffic laws because they aren't paid from tickets, rather they're paid based from insurance premiums based on preventing crime - the lower the rate of crime and better police enforcement, the more free lunch McPolice get to collect. This also dovetails quite nicely with the protection and enforcement of property rights, because trespassers are the first step to crime.
>courts
Courts can be constructed through contractual agreements and insurance companies, in the sense that in order for you to get a certain insurance policy you need to contractually bind yourself to following a certain set of laws, and the proceeds from your insurance payments pay to keep the court functioning when there are disputes.

>>136889316
>makes an appeal to emotions
Every contract is an agreement for both parties to surrender some of their rights. Usually property rights, but not limited to.

The fact of dating assumes that you agreed to surrender you right to fuck others. If you do it, you violate the terms of the "contract". You should first dissolve the agreement before dating them.

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>>136889790
> thinking ancap wouldn't end up as a totalitarian government in about 3 days
> muh private courts will put people in private jails for murder when the biggest customer of muh private court shoots me dead, no conflict of interest there
> muh private police dept will investigate my death honestly when the biggest customer/donor shoots me dead
> muh private jails will not let me out of jail early if I pay them a ton of money
> muh stupid ancap lack of logic

>>136889665
Men have let women vote. And those men were much more conservative than modern manginas. How will you prevent them from supporting women's caprice again?

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>>136889790
i've been wondering but why is this ancap-chan wearing a commissar uniform?

>>136888783
It doesn't have a monopoly, you can always just move to a different country.

>>136889665
>don't let women vote
I believe I need to share ancap view of democracy. It is not the way for making decisions. It is mostly a statist propaganda to convince people to obey. It contributes to the belief that we rule ourselves. They let women vote to make it appear even more convincing, legitimate and fair.

>>136890871
this kills the ancap

>>136890653
The worst thing ancap can degenerate into is democracy. Every protection agency becomes a political party, they form a parliament and install the monopoly rule.

>>136891385
>the worst form of government is the worst thing it will degenerate to
kek

>>136891232
It's a territorial monopoly on that land. Saying you can move doesn't refute anything

>>136890721
>why is this ancap-chan wearing a commissar uniform?
To troll commies referring to Augusto Pinochet. The story says he threw communists out of a helicopter. Until now no one victim's name is known. I think it is a typical commie myth.

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>>136891385
> mfw I think we don't have any examples of anarchy turning into rule of those with the biggest fists in about a microsecond

Are all of you ancaps just like really, really stupid anarchists? Even an autistic person can poke holes in your shit theory in about a second, how can you not see them.

> mfw I also didn't respond to the other points of private courts/jails/police

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>>136890653
>muh private courts can all be bought by the same guy
>muh private police all work for the same guy
>muh private jails can't be sued for doing exactly this by muh private courts or police
>muh small-minded government slave mentality

>>136887493
>Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

why do I just instinctively know this just equates to 'ban guns'?

>>136891735
>any examples of anarchy
>examples of anarchy
>anarchy
There hasn't be anarchy in written history. Because writing was invented so you could read what the ruler said you had to do to not be killed.

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>>136891742

Is this supposed to refute my point that you are stupid as fuck, you're just agreeing with me

>>136891735
>we don't have any examples of anarchy turning into rule of those
Iceland of the saga period. Educate yourself with this book https://www.amazon.com/Viking-Age-Iceland-Jesse-Byock/dp/0140291156/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502414443&sr=8-1&keywords=viking+age+iceland

>>136886615
Wouldn't it be more profitable to keep them there indefinately?

>>136891668
is it not their land? did they not conquer that land?

>>136892084
>WRITING IS OPRESSING US
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

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>>136891742
>>136892084

this nigga is bait

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>>136892323
Keeping them their indefinitely violates the NAP and is unjustified seizure of their labor

>>136892222
You keep assuming that there's only one court or police force and not multiple competing ones enforcing roughly the same laws

>>136875047
K I'll leave but I'm taking my private property with me. Also I never signed a contract to be part of you nation and too pay your taxes.

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>>136892375
>is it not their land? did they not conquer that land?
Who's they?

>>136892680
governments you retard

>>136892774
>hurr durr I put a flag on it and said everything in the watershed belongs to the government
>that makes it actually belong to the government, not the guy who paid for it or fenced it in or built the house and property improvements on it

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>>136892774
"Who" is government?

>>136888475
I'm not trying to convert you, but to demoralise you until you give up, Anon.

>>136888843
And you as well, Anon. Give up. I don't want anybody on my team who is so tainted.

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>>136893008
>on my team
We're spoilers to the end, baby

>>136892927
>hurr durr I built a house now this land is mine

>>136892952
a group of people, no different from any other organization

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>>136885025
>1800s had monarchs
>1900s started off with war and poverty
>therefore monarchs are bad
This is the insanity of the historicist method, folks.

Downfalls are a part of healthy monarchism, just as bankruptcy is part of a healthy free market. When a king manages his property inefficiently, he suffers the consequences when his subjects riot and revolt. Compare this to a shitty elected leader, on whom most citizens would say "Well, at least he'll be out of office in a few years."

>>136885508
What would most ancaps say? I dunno. A lot of them are religious, and a lot of them are atheists, but I think most of them (Hoppean ones, anyway) are smart enough to see the value of religion regardless of a social system. In the same way that the Santa Claus mythos keeps young children in line, Christianity (or Buddhism, or what have you) keeps adults in line. Use what works.

>>136893315
You don't want to continue to be laughed at, Anon., do you?

>>136890540
>argument for monarchy
Hoppe does not advocate monarchy in his book "Democracy: the god that failed". He claims that democracy is comparatively worse than monarchy. His view of an ideal system is "anarchy of private property", as he says. You can read his about it in the book "Economics and ethics of private property" http://libgen.io/ads.php?md5=E5DBDBC2AE2378D8992C46DFD5FF2654

>>136888783

I mean.. you can can't you? Literally just migrate to a country with better laws. Thats exactly what all the 'based arab an caps' are doing.

>>136893430
...Said the Anon. who thought he could get away with playing the parasite.

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>>136875047
You Were Warned

>>136893481
They don't want to be around coloured people either, but in prinicple, cannot say such a thing out loud..

>>136893367
When did this people conquer the land they now rule over and how is it justified?

>>136889364
>>136889546

And monopolies are not inherently bad. and since you chill for the state you shouldnt complain about them.

>>136892323
>Wouldn't it be more profitable to keep them there indefinately?
They would hire an agency to protect their rights. The existence of such agency will rise the risks for private prison and makes their slavery business unprofitable.

>>136885053
Communism on the other hand is perfect because you earn money by doing nothi-
Wait

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>>136892952
> hur dur my name is hoppe
> walks through a magic portal into my ancap dream world
> promptly run over and killed by a wealthy businessman
> businessman funds 90% of the private police and private court budget
> those totally not-conflict-ridden private police and private courts find businessman at no fault
> gg

Ancaps cant even follow this simple amount of logic

>>136893766
>When did this people conquer the land they now rule over?
through out all of history

>how is it justified?
[spoiler]might[/spoiler]
how is it not?

>>136893430
>Downfalls are a part of healthy monarchism, just as bankruptcy is part of a healthy free market. When a king manages his property inefficiently, he suffers the consequences when his subjects riot and revolt.

>monarchists actually think bloody and violent revolution are preferable the current system
No thanks I would rather not have my family raped and killed as a byproduct of the revolution by mercenaries/soldiers

>>136892375
>is it not their land? did they not conquer that land?
Valid right to property comes only in productive or contractual way, not in conquest or theft. Read it again >>136886094

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>>136894033
People don't live as long as the entire span of human history. Everyone in power now was born in the 20th century

>>136875047
Capitalism is globalism and internationalist, it is the perfect weapon of Jewish influence to promote diversity and demographic replacement in the name of profit over national identity.

>>136894060
Start with a constitutional monarchy and after you get comfortable with a head of state who doesn't change with elections, then see if you want more of it, Anon.

no mortal king owns the land itself hence why their dynastys change

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>>136894336
"Capitalism" doesn't exist because it was only ever a straw-man for those who wanted to advance a "solution" of communism, Anon.

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>>136875047
No it doesn't.
Maybe you should try reading about and ideology before you criticize it.

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>>136885382
stupid dumb teabag sucking scum

>>136894145
why is cant property be conquered? there isnt a rule against it

>>136894209
it has been passed down from their fathers as ad infinitum

>>136893481
>Literally just migrate to a country with better laws
Why should I leave my property? It is statists who make non legitimate claim to these lands. They should leave me.

>>136894060
Only the monarchist and other guilty parties of the mismanaged system need suffer. Any other violence is unnecessary and ought to be cracked down upon.

Pardon me for believing that bad leaders should be punished, rather than simply waited out.

>>136885053
>Under capitalism you can earn money simply by owning property (and not working).
But before this, you have to buy or create property (and work)

>>136894758
where is your legitimate claim?

>>136894750
Democratic states are not dynasties, imbecile. That's not the case in almost no modern state.

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>>136885053
>Under capitalism you can earn money simply by owning property (and not working)
But before you can do that, you have to buy the property, by earning wealth through working.

>>136895020
>Democratic states are not dynasties, imbecile
not literally you drooling retard

>That's not the case in almost no modern state.
that is false. it is true for all modern states. they were either born from revolution or passed down by those who revolted

>>136887901
that was inovating, gifs are not needed any longer kek

>>136886094
>I made mudpies on this land so this land is now mine!

>>136895339
How fucking new are you?

>>136875585
>not knowing the difference between serf and peasant
kys ignorant fag

>>136895248
" Democracy (Greek: δημοkρατία, dēmokratía literally "rule of the people"), in modern usage, is a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament. "

Elected, not inherited

>>136894750
>there isnt a rule against it
There's a rule against theft and robbery. Societies who had not developed institutions supporting this rule lived poorly and were conquered by conquistadors and converted to support their social institutions.

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>>136875879
salute

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>>136895462
Ancapistan wouldn't have serfs or serfdom.

>>136885382
ok I lol'd

>>136895525
>There's a rule against theft and robbery
not in anarchy. I thought you knew this

>Societies who had not developed institutions supporting this rule lived poorly and were conquered by conquistadors and converted to support their social institutions.
like ancapistan?

>>136895565
yeah because peonage is voluntary

>>136889233
I'll delegate my right to self defense to a "protection" company by paying them to keep you behind bars indefinitely.

>>136895565
fuck ancapistan, your point is wrong as peasants were in fact allowed to leave their lord's land.

>>136895522
the people are elected
the power is inherited

>>136875047
The simple argument against AnCap ideology is the fact that in a perfect AnCap fantasy world the AnCap structure would last for a day. People would immediately start forming cooperative structures. They would agree to let officials make decisions on their behalf. Groups would gain power, influence, and attract more to join their ranks. Governments would form, and eventually the overwhelming majority of people would be living under "the state" yet again. Of their own volition people would consent to legal systems, to prisons, to law enforcement maintaining rule of law by force, all under the guise of peace and order.

AnCap autists try to use collective as some sort of dirty word, but that is the nature of people. We're social animals. We inherently form hierarchies. We cooperate. We form collectives. Tribes, towns, cities, etc. Create Anarchy is antithetical to human nature, and would never last. Its infantile and laughable.

>>136894964
>where is your legitimate claim?
My claim is legitimate to the property I own. I have obtained it in fair way. I think you could agree that if I come to you home and tell you to pay me or leave it if you don't agree to pay, it would not be legitimate on my side. Why then some IRS comes to mine and extorts money? Why you tell me to leave my home?

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>>136895946
>what is serfdom

>>136895823
>yeah because peonage is voluntary
Yeah, it is, what's your point?

>>136894958
You can inherit it or have it given to you my dude

>>136895416
>I made mudpies on this land so this land is now mine!
Right. You are an owner. Go on with mudpies and you may have an acre at the end of you life.

>>136895999
Yes and it was taken from the state that was before. How is that a justification for power?

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>>136896093
And if you fail to manage it properly you will lose it just as easily. Heck, 70% of families lose their wealth by the 2nd generation, and 90% by the 3rd. Not to mention 84% of millionares are self made and 62% of billionares are self made.

>>136895823
>Crypto-commie thinks that communism is anarchy
https://youtu.be/IT32n7qFxYI

>>136885382
Keep paying taxes to give Niggers luxuries you dumb bootlicking double nigger.

>>136895897
If your agency follows such rules, it will not have many customers. They will also be unproductive and can not pay high fees. Your agency is going to loose the fight against my agency.

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>>136885025

>>136896048
>Governments would form, and eventually the overwhelming majority of people would be living under "the state" yet again.
Here is the contradiction. The state is a monopoly. But you have multiple governments which is not a monopoly and thus not the state.

>>136896056
>I think you could agree that if I come to you home and tell you to pay me or leave it if you don't agree to pay, it would not be legitimate on my side
It wouldn't be legitimate because the government deemed it illegitimate

>Why then some IRS comes to mine and extorts money?
because it is their land

>Why you tell me to leave my home?
because I can

>>136896309
My mudpies were created from the dirt from the landslide that fell from the mountain, therefore in order to secure more resources for mudpie co. I now own the mountain

>>136896088
>point being?
is that not exploitive?

>>136896420
are we still talking about democracies here or is it government in general?

>>136897346
Unification is the natural progression of power. We would arrive at a point where one entity was the largest/most powerful and then it would begin exerting its influence over others until it inevitably absorbed them.

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>>136897454
>is that not exploitive?
Not when you can rise out of peonage. Hell, most of todays capitalist "exploiters" are just former peons themselves.

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>>136875879

there's going to be nothing left

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>>136896048
>people would consent to legal systems, to prisons, to law enforcement maintaining rule of law by force, all under the guise of peace and order.
This is exactly want ancaps are counting on. You should learn more about it, because now you criticize a strawman or a product of your fantasy. Are you an autist?

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I'm a ancap
I am for the non-aggression principle
Except in the defense of property
Capitalism is human nature
Except that capitalism has never been tried
Capitalism is for free trade which we have always had
Except that Slave Societies and Feudal systems aren't capitalist
I am not a bigot
Except when it is in defense of someone's property rights
I am against the current wars
Except that I am for imperialism only when it it is done through voluntary exchange
I am against mass surveillance and the police state
Except when it is done in the name of private property rights
I am for freedom of speech
Except when a property owner bans types of speech from his property
I am for gun rights
Except for when a property owner bans it.
I am a anarchist and the state can't tell me what to do
Except for my boss, he can tell me what to do because it is voluntary

>>136897687
>Not when you can rise out of peonage
really? tell me how

>>136896093
>You can inherit it or have it given to you
So somebody else had already worked and decided to give it to me. You can not blame that person, he did nothing wrong. He's likely done more than you.

>>136897897
>I can't make an argument
The irony here is ridiculous. You lament the existence of government, and yet if you destroyed the existing power structure of the state today it would rise against exactly the same way.
You call yourself an Anarchist but Anarchy would ever actually happen. One strong government would form and eventually all people would be subject to its laws whether they wanted to or not, because the majority of people would consent to it.

You're infantile, poorly read, and have never thought your memeflag ideology to its logical conclusions. The social contract always exists. You cannot escape it.

>>136897585
>Unification is the natural progression of power.
Yet it has never happened on the earth. Unification usually happens in face of a greater evil force like soviet commies.

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>>136898215
oh but when governments do that its a nono

>>136898471
idk anon I think its happening now

>>136897849
>Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money,...
I'm going to have to stop you there, George. The correct sentence should be "Conservatives say if you don't let the rich keep their money,..." Now, feel free to finishing your though.

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>>136898471
>Yet it has never happened on the earth. Unification usually happens...

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>>136898105
If you're uneducated, go to college or trade school. Be very frugal with your money, but don't put it into the bank, put it into stocks instead (ask /biz/ if you need advice on this). Save up, and look for property to buy, especially cheap property. Take a loan if you must, and rent out this property to others. Develop the property first if it is low value.

>>136898471
Manifest destiny. The subjugation of native tribes. The civil war.
Regardless of the nuances of these they were all events that took place to ensure there was one single ruling authority on this slab of land from coast to coast. The fact that America exports our culture to the entire developed world, the fact that English is the language of international business, these too are examples of power solidifying in one place.

>>136898577
>when governments do that its a
When governments work and give away their property? What was this holy government?

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ITT: Corporate cucks

If you aren't pirating everything you possibly canx importing drugs from shitty third world countries (that somehow are more effective then oirs at a fraction of the price) or buying your electronics from some shaddy ass Hong Kong website that bypasses the propriatary bullshit computer and cellphone companies force you to buy you are a cuck.

Bootleg/piracy master race.

>>136898710
Again, you should educate yourself because now you are like a silly commie mixing up violent and voluntary cooperations.

>>136875047
>This upsets the ancap
This does not upset the ancap. The ancap aspires to be that lad.

>>136875047
Direct feudalism is unironically a better system than capitalism because the rulers are beholden to act in the interest of their kingdom rather than their own personal gain. They must play the role delegated to them instead of simply enriching themselves.

>>136898691
they give it up to the next government.
Democracies are especially good at this

>>136899273
>Yet again I can't make a real argument and have to demonstrate how infantile and petty I am

Power doesn't care if actions are voluntary or forced. Your sense or morality is meaningless to the ambiguity of a governmental body. Competing bodies are always absorbed into one. If a company in the market today destroys their competition, forces them out of business, they will buy up their assets and IP. The end result is the same, and it is power condensing into fewer hands. This is no different from what countries do to one another in open warfare.

You can do nothing but spew empty rhetoric and childish insults. If anyone needs to gain an education and maturity its you.

>>136898889
see >>136899607

>>136899353
ancaps have a problem with authority. They could never run a successful monarchy.

>>136899679
they could never run a successful company for that matter

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>>136899679
Ancaps have a problem with force, not authority.

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>>136875047
God created the earth, and gave it to Adam, on the condition he labor on it.

Monarchy claim they are the eldest inheritor, of the eldest inheritor, of the eldest inheritor of Adam. And that god created the eldest child to rule, and the younger children to lose feudal rank, and serve and go to war for the eldest.

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal." that children inherit equally from their parents, and that land can not be owned if it is not labored on or inhabited by the owner.

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>>136875047
Your property claim is illegitimate due to it being acquired through violence, not homesteading or voluntary transaction. Checkmate, criminal.

>>136900013
Legitimacy is determined by a court. Courts only have authority because of the consent of the governed and the force of the state.
You have no grounds to make such a claim unless you have those things on your side.

>waaah I dont like violence
Is not an argument.

>>136900013
>illegitimate
I won and I say it was legal.
>mfw companies do this all the time

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>>136899470
But whats stopping the abuse?

>>136900421
>>136900440
>Arguing that violence is a legitimate means to obtaining property.
Nigger tier.

>>136900838
>arguing that claims can be legitimate without the threat of violence to back it up
retard tier

>>136900838
Violence is the only meaningful currency. Gold might hold universal value, but violence acquires gold. Violence is strong enough to back a monetary system completely devoid of any commodity or precious metal.
This is a truth that you can't get away from no matter how much you dislike it.

>>136899607
>they give it up to the next government.
Governments have never worked.

>>136875047
And thats why Monarchism is unironically the real red pill folks

>>136901114
>Governments have never worked.
lul wut?

>>136901114
This is a completely childish nonstatement.
The US government established DARPA. Your entire premise is demonstrably invalid.

If all you can do is spew memes you need to be an adult and rethink your positions.

>>136901099
Violence can not aquire a gun. Only gold can. I'm telling you, go learn the fucking difference. Violent interactions are destructive. Voluntary exchange is productive.

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>>136875047

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why are ancaps just fascists in disguise?

>>136893430
>Santa Claus mythos keeps young children in line

>>136901494
>Violence can not aquire a gun.

Are you seriously this mentally challenged?

>>136900991
>>136901099
>Violence used in self-defense is legitimate; aggressive violence is not. Learn the difference.

You're right in that violence is needed to backup claims, but only through defense of person or property. However, an ancap society would be full of people that share common values and recognize property is only legitimately acquired through homesteading or voluntary transaction. Anyone who tries to use aggressive violence to achieve their means is therefore a criminal and subject punishment.

>>136901494
>Violent interactions are destructive. Voluntary exchange is productive.
destructive and productive how?

>>136901562
>are ancaps just fascists in disguise?
no they are crypocommies in disguise

>>136901562
I beet, he does not know what fascism is.
At fist he hates socialists labeled antifa (anti-fascists). Then he thinks that fascism is something opposing socialism and thus is different from it. And so he follows fascism. He might later learn that fascism is just a soft form of socialism. The doctrine of fascism was developed by a socialist.

>>136901836
>However, an ancap society would be full of people that share common values and recognize property is only legitimately acquired through homesteading or voluntary transaction. Anyone who tries to use aggressive violence to achieve their means is therefore a criminal and subject punishment.
how the hell are you going to enforce that if the people who punish them are also using violence?

>>136885053
Management is work. Look at the infrastructure in Africa that collapsed because no white people was there to manage it.

>>136901836
Your position is that violence is only legitimate under certain circumstances is meaningless. You are not stating some universal truth. You are stating your personal opinion.

All governments wield violence. The measure that they have for justification is arbitrary. Opining on whether or not you think something is justifiable will never change the fact that it happened, and that it will continue to happen.
Criminality again is something determined by a court. What constitutes a crime in one land is permissible in another.
You're not even saying anything. You're stringing together meaningless words.

>>136901983
More infantile shitposting won't convince anyone that you're an adult.
Pretty comical strawman though.

>>136899762
Ancaps have a problem when others have authority over them. I'm sure their cool with having authority over others. Me too, pretty much all of us right? Way more fun to kang than to get kanged right?

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>>136901562
Come back in a few months, he will be posting about how at last he has finally seen, Hitler did nothing wrong and National Socialism is the greatest ideology to ever exist. Ancaps are not redpilled.

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>>136883507
>crying about dead communist cockroaches
All you 'fascist' cocksuckers are the same, whining about the market solutions that send all of you socialist scum to the great oven in the sky. We've had enough of you crypto-marxist kikes. You've been found out, and every last one of you is getting a free helicopter ride.

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>>136902363
Ancaps have a problem with force, not authority.

>>136902085
A third party adjudication system agreed upon by the respective defense agencies of the plaintiff and defendant will make the decisions. Of course, the party that loses can appeal as much as they want but if the loser is made to pay for the court fees of the winner, it would become increasingly costly and pointless to do so.

>>136901843
Exchange is productive in the way that it benefits both parties. Both parties are better of, otherwise they would not exchanged. It encourages the division of labor. Specialization makes worker more productive.

Violent intaractions are destructive as fights and wars. A transfer of property without consent does not make another party better of. It does not produce more wealth. Also managing people by threat of force results in poor decisions, because an oppressive entity can not have all the practical knowledge that people have. The system works inefficiently as socialism.

>>136897126
If Ancap is so good, how come it has never been tried before?

Check mate Autist.

>>136875047
wait a minute as much as i hate AnCaps this picture is complete bullshit for a fuckin dozen reasons

>implying the government have entitlement over your land

the basic and number one principle of democracy is to recognize that individuals have the right to own/ privatize land and agreement/fulfillment of contracts, this is neither

i know the ''muh consent'' shit gets splurged out alot but theres no agreement to begin with so a forceful punishment for violating forced contracts is void in a real democracy

>taxation is theft

i hear you say well thats not entirely true theres a principle they used to hide behind when enforcing taxes, taxation measured by services but i think we all know that excessive taxation towards unequal amount of services is whats happening in the west

local armed militia is made to over throw government that will do this very fuckin thing, entrapment.

>>136902796
>. A transfer of property without consent does not make another party better of.

IP theft.
Your entire position was just destroyed yet again. How pathetic.

>>136902575
still have to use violence to stop the agitator

>>136902796
>A transfer of property without consent does not make another party better of. It does not produce more wealth.
It makes the attacking party is more often than not better off than he was if he didn't.

>>136894704
This. Fascist ethno revolution ftw

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>>136902891
Gaelic Ireland and the Icelandic Commonwealth.

Ancapism: The Political-Philosophy of a Million Cruise Ships

You consent to the taxes because you stay

If you don't like it, simply leave.

>>136903075
dam luk at all doz economic powa houziz

>>136902349
>Your position is that violence is only legitimate under certain circumstances is meaningless. You are not stating some universal truth. You are stating your personal opinion.

>All governments wield violence. The measure that they have for justification is arbitrary. Opining on whether or not you think something is justifiable will never change the fact that it happened, and that it will continue to happen.
Criminality again is something determined by a court. What constitutes a crime in one land is permissible in another.
>You're not even saying anything. You're stringing together meaningless words.

You are exactly right in that might makes right. Which is why an ancap society would have to be prepared to use violence to remove the state, if the state does not voluntarily withdraw governance in the face of overwhelming majority dissent. Keep in mind that the state is a parasite that constitutes a very small portion of the population and is extremely outnumbered by the tax-paying class. With regards to courts, they are the most efficient means to determining guilt or innocence. But saying that private courts can not exist is objectively wrong. Private arbitration exists just like private roads exist.

>>136895556
It's so aggravating that niggers absorb like the worst trickle down of the jew global capitalist garbage propaganda. Fucking "money squad" "gettin dat paper" Yeah we know Laquan, you all apparently are in the money squad. They have no resistance to the poison culture and they don't even do it well.

>>136903047
>still have to use violence to stop the agitator
Yep, if they don't voluntarily surrender.

>>136884140
I will never understand furries, I just don't get it, what's the fucking appeal.

>>136903116
>>136903409
A private court would have no authority unless it had the force to compel people to pay fines, and force people into prison as punishment. You can't say that a court system would be voluntary and have consent of both parties. The guilty party would just refuse to consent to any trial or punishment.

Saying things like the state is a parasite is another one of those totally meaningless talking points. Its rhetoric, not dialectic. I don't care about your rhetoric when discussing ideas. The state will always exist, governments exist because hierarchies are natural, and they provide convenience to the governed. All of society endures these systems because they're a net good when their sum total is taken into account.

>>136903265
wrong--->>136902998

>>136902431
Da free markit killed 'em. Musta bin commies!

>>136903496
how is that any different from a regular government?

>>136885025
But ridding Europe of monarchs is what caused said downfall, you mong.

>>136898691
Everyone can get endless loans and be a landlord. Don't worry, prices won't fall and no one will starve.

Implying that this is not better than the state?

>>136888475
>religious and moral traditions
you do realize its these standards that basically make or break civilization?
>integral to functional ethnicities
Rome broke into 2 legs, a western latin leg, and an eastern Byzantine leg. Guess which one lasted longer?

>>136903643
No, if you don't like the rules and government in a certain area, simply leave. Very simple

Oh wait, you don't want to live in some gook country do you? Or some african shanty town?
You yourself realize that your world is confined to the english speaking european countries.

People are bound to the land, a specific time and place. The "vote with your feet" argument ignores the realities of human nature.

>>136900838
>Arguing that violence is a legitimate means to obtaining property is nigger tier

I guess that makes you a nigger then paleface. Ooga booga go back to Europe.

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These are some pretty good memes, this thread deserves more bumps.

>>136902998
>the basic and number one principle of democracy is to recognize that individuals have the right to own/ privatize land and agreement/fulfillment of contracts
no the only thing that is guaranteed in democracy is the vote, everything else is the natural contract of the state

>taxation is theft, but fo good reason
no taxes are voluntary because you live on the land that the state conquered

>>136901494
>violence cannot acquire a gun
Pretty sure someone you trust can stab you and take your gun. Further more I can't remember the last time I bought a card with gold, pretty sure we use magnitized cards and paper currency.

>>136897897
No one could read five of those books sequentially without killing themselves.
Your ancap reading lists really do not help you. It is basically just statistical analysis of terrible low-fantasy.

>>136903075
But Stalin won and neither of those countries are Ancap....

>>136902998
>number one principle of democracy is to recognize that individuals have the right to own/ privatize land
Singapore and China are not democratic, but they have stronger property rights than some democracies.

>>136903624
see
>>136902575
A prison system is not guaranteed to be prevalent in an ancap society where restitution is the primary focus of justice, as it should be. The state is by definition a parasite in that it cannot exist without someone producing the wealth for them to confiscate through taxation. This is elementary stuff.
>The state will always exist, governments exist because hierarchies are natural, and they provide convenience to the governed. All of society endures these systems because they're a net good when their sum total is taken into account.
Governments exist because one small group is willing to use violence and deception to achieve their ends and the other, larger group is to stupid or cowardly to resist.

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>>136904401

>>136875585
Peasants were bound to land that was owned by the state. The property was owned by a few and denied to others who depend upon it. Capitalism is basically the same thing except you aren't to the capitalism directly. If a small few possess the means to live and use it to profit off of people's dependency, then the people are not independent nor free.

>Just another day in the destroyed country that once could be said to "flourish" with democracy and happiness , now in a state of total war , no corners in the lawless streets was safe and ideologies thrive to have any impact and bring peace to this civil war , some followers of Anarcho capitalism were prepared....Just like Ancap-Chan , a simple blonde girl that lives in a small house in the outskirts of the city daring to go there to scavange for any resources , donning a simple t-shirt with some more yellow rags to distinguish herself as a follower of such beliefs

"You should not be here......If they discover how I am just lending you a place to stay.....Someone like you...."

> Others followed more .... Extreme beliefs , just like Fashy-Chan , tanned like the brass of italian guns ,she donned a black shirt that showed some signs of blood and mud , afterall she was used to it .... Using violence to stop those that dared to bring her "nation" to a path of poverty and decadence

"Sì..Sì , I already know about it , yet have you not understood how times like this we have to stay united? When anarchists and .... Those red bastards unite....We too have to unite!"

> Ancap-Chan got up from the chair slowly looking into the eyes of Fashy-Chan seeking some comfort by sinking her face in her chest mourning the sadness that they lived in

"I just want to get back....Even if it wasn't what I wanted....I want to be able to eat well....To see property that is not burned or vandalized..."

> Fashy-Chan kept hugging her slowly getting a smile telling her

"We have eachother , no matter what the cost might be if anyone finds out...We will be happy to know we both fought for what we believed in , against our worst enemy , even if my nature goes against yours we fight for the common good...."

> Fashy-Chan took her Fez hat placing it on the head of Ancap-Chan that now...At least had a simple smile adorning it

"Come on Ancap-Chan , I brought some meat that I found wrapp- "

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>>136904518

>>136903723
There are multiple competing private courts existing instead of a government monopoly.

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>>136904571
>tfw no health standards

>>136904579
but how is that different from regular government?

>>136903265
Why should I leave my property? It is statists who make non legitimate claim to these lands. They should leave me. I think you could agree that if I come to you home and tell you to pay me or leave it if you don't agree to pay, it would not be legitimate on my side. Why then some IRS comes to mine and extorts money? Why you tell me to leave my home?

>>136904518
>>136904571
This is just an indictment on government ownership of natural resources.

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>>136904526
>Peasants were bound to land that was owned by the state
Which is the big thing separating it from capitalism. They can't really be compared with this difference.

>>136904677
Are you serious?

>>136875047
We don't live in England. We are not ruled by a King and Queen. Taxes was one of the reasons we were free to have this land in the first place.

>>136904552
Someone actually took the time to write this.

>>136904507
Again, if I'm the defendant I'll simply represent myself, and refuse to consent to your private courts one after another. Your fanfiction fantasy is totally detached from reality. A court has no authority whatsoever without force. Justice requires force.

Calling the state a parasite is rhetoric. Thats your opinion that you're espousing with emotionally charged language. I do not care at all about your personal opinions. Government matter of factly handles resources so that the majority of people need not concern themselves with such nuances. It is a matter of convenience. Unless the state is actively seeking to genocide the people or otherwise harming them in real tangible ways then it is a symbiotic relationship.

>>136904020
>simply leave
why leave your land? you own it they don't get that in your fat fuckin head cunt, i would consent to the taxes but only if i deem them fair to pay after all its a contract both parties would need to agree to it

>you don't want to live in some gook country do you? Or some african shanty town?

oh look blackmail is such a good way to prove your right isnt it, nothing about your statement is democratic

if you don't like democracy you should move to the very list of shitholes you were talking about to see what authority run government looks like in full swing

>>136904173
wrong you have far more than a vote, learn what an actual democracy actually is because you didn't learn it in school very well, yo see you as a equal partner and have the equal recognized right over land is one of them

>>136904401
pure horse shit and when china goes even hungrier than they already are you'l see a mass revoke of land in command of commie run china

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https://www.amazon.com/Enterprise-Law-Justice-Without-State/dp/1598130447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502422764&sr=8-1&keywords=the+enterprise+of+law

>>136892555
>book written for government bureaucrats.
>uses it as tract to prove how everything can be MUH LIBERTE
Only in ancapistan...

>>136904784
My point was that the state had a clear class distinction where the state were filled with rich royalty that benefited off of the labor of the serfs. Slavery worked the same way. If the slave owner taking all of your products of labor and benefited through profit, as what rate of profit isn't theft?

>>136904808
yes I just dont see the difference
minor transgressions are still differed to a higher non-bias power

>>136905085
> yo see you as a equal partner and have the equal recognized right over land is one of them
dam wheres my free gubmit land senpai

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>>136905184
It would all be theft, mainly because slavery isn't valid, you cannot own another person, nor can you forcefully keep them on your property, nor can you force them to work for you.

>>136904526
>land that was owned by the state
>Capitalism is basically the same
>a small few possess the means to live
The differences are:
1. The land always exists and was conquered by the state, but an enterprise was created by a capitalist.
2. Land is finite, by the means of production are not.
3. The state acts as a single entity, but capitalists have to compete for workers.

>>136886548
its not sad at all pussy its fucking life

>>136904518
Ancaps should all be sent to Africa to help with the space program.

>>136905280

you know i meant by buying it not getting it for free

our democracy is backed by capitalism you have the right own that property when you buy it through your earnings its yours by full right and allowing government to even have the ability to revoke without good cause of contract fulfillment is nothing less than criminal

>>136888000
chegged

>>136905386
>Force means state

The ancap view of the state is childish. Why is coercion wrong in your view? You are not pacifists. You cannot claim violence is a form of hierarchy because you support hierarchy. Hierarchy is inherently violent due to it needing it to justify its power.

>>136905183
>book written BY AN ANCAP for government bureaucrats
fix

>>136904552
unf
>>136905623
could I not buy land in nazi germany?

>>136905418
in order to create an enterprise you must first make a claim

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>>136904518
>>136904571
>>136904666
And this is why I don't trust government regulations.

>>136875047
The king's ownership of all the land is illegitimate because he didn't appropriate it by mixing it with his labor

>>136905006
>Again, if I'm the defendant I'll simply represent myself, and refuse to consent to your private courts one after another. Your fanfiction fantasy is totally detached from reality. A court has no authority whatsoever without force. Justice requires force.
But the if you did that, it would be justified to use force against you.

>Calling the state a parasite is rhetoric. Thats your opinion that you're espousing with emotionally charged language. I do not care at all about your personal opinions.
You are lack of argument with regards to how the state is maintained is telling.

>We have to have government handle the resources so the people don't have to handle such nuances
This is like saying we have to have the government provide our food because private individuals cannot be trusted to do it.

>Unless the state is actively seeking to genocide the people or otherwise harming them in real tangible ways then it is a symbiotic relationship.
Just because our current system is somewhat functional (except when they are creating devices that could cause the extinction of the entire human race) doesn't mean there isn't a better one.

>>136905724
well it was socialist so you properly were given free land under pretenses you agree on what the government wants from you

and it was probably stolen from another farmer like all socialist shitholes seems to do

>>136904552

> Just like the speed of a fresh rifle projectile Fashy-Chan was welcomed by a strange hug from behind....Ancap-Chan refused to let it go , enjoying the company of Fashy-Chan ... Even if she didn't see her as equal in her beliefs...She learned how to see the facy of an ally in the figure of Fashy-Chan

"Promise me you will stay with me Fashy-Chan....You..You always said that we are stronger when we are united right? You can unite with me!"

> Fashy-Chan gave just a simple smile turning around to place one gloved hand in the cheek of Ancap-Chan calming her

"I will....I have been here for so long that I don't see you as an enemy...When the war ends we will probably depart in our ways....You to your land....And I will go to my nation...."

> Ancap-Chan looked a bit to the floor before she gave a determined look to Fashy-Chan

"I want to stay with you! No matter how strange or anti-pragmatic it will be , I want to stay with the black shirted girl that cares about a nation! We have our differences....But we both fight the same enemy and if that means we have to unite to kill those reds...."

> Fashy-Chan tilted her head just slightly lifting one eyebrow even before she began to realize where this was going starting to rose her cheeks just slightly as....She saw it more as a romantic advance than anything...To break her beliefs for that moment....Just to see a face of someone she might....Love?

"Ancap-Chan I...I mean we both fight those guys but...Don't you think we should just....Go to our ways and..."

> She ceased talking before she saw how the face of Ancap-Chan lighted up with a smile strangely the capitalist girl was enjoying such attitude

"You look cute when you try to protest it you know? Come on....There is nothing wrong in...Loving your allies"

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>>136905646
It comes down to different views of what a ruler is. To an ancap, to rule over someone means to force them to do what you want at gunpoint, however you can listen to their instructions voluntarily and they would not be ruling over you. Ancoms on the other hand view any hierarchy as rulership, regardless of whether it was voluntary, but coercion is okay as long as it is not done in a hierarchal fashion, and that is not rulership.

>>136905280
You can't get a second opinion ruling when the state has a monopoly. Next time you're in court, try saying you don't abide by their decision and would like a trial with a private arbiter instead. See how that goes.

>>136905979
same thing can happen in the us
cant remember what its called tho

>ree socialists get out
still did more for history in those twelve years than ireland ever did in all of her existance

>>136905959
>But the if you did that, it would be justified to use force against you.
If you're okay with using force to begin with then why would you ever have a system of private courts where both parties consented? You just admitted your entire premise was faulty. Face that realization and understand your ideas are poor ones.

The rest of your post was simply more of your personal opinions. Your opinions do not need to be addressed. Learn the difference between rhetoric and dialectic before you waste your time typing up another post.