socialism vs capitalism

>>136808946
There's literally no capitalist nations on earth

>>136808992

wut

File: gommies.jpg (13KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 250x250px

Hello gomrades! X_DDddDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of ebin revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. X_-DDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :-DDDDd
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all FUG. When capitalists run away we win and I gill you all. Eventually the fungtions of state stob and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/hiwherearethefood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/
https://www.islamiggommunism.gom/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :-DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. (BENIS :_DD)

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage 4
Nod real gommunism. Nexzt gountry. problems werent. :-DDdd

>>136809080
There are no capitalist countries on earth. Everything is mixed model. It's stupid to compare the two when most countries lean more socialist.

>>136809124
you seem to mistake me as advocating for communism but thats ok i know you dutch are not very bright

>>136809182

LOL, he thinks socialdemocracy is socialism!, it's the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

>>136808946
The solution is fascism.

>>136808946
>Valuing life of niggers
>On /pol/
Also why the hell this video is promoting global communism when you are talking about socialism as an economic system(not as a government form)

File: 1486942665118.png (168KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 500x281px

>>136808946
Seems to me that capitalism has a huge death toll as well. They just like to shift the blame to other things.

>those poor people died because they were poor and stupid, not because of lack of healtchare. If they wanted medicine they could have bought some.
>those brown people died because they were poor and stupid. Not because we invaded them for their resources.
>those factory workers lost their hands in my machines because they are idiots. If I can't afford to pay for their medical care its not my fault
>child labor? Who cares! if they don't work why should they eat?

So many wars for profit.

Of course I'm not so sure its actually WORSE than the death tolls from gommunism or fascism anymore. And I'm starting to see why so many people like that whole "liberty" thing.

I can't imagine having to fight the globalists in gommunist CHYAAINA

Capitalism works because it rewards incentive. It encourages people to trade goods and services between each other. Communism doesn't work because it destroys incentive. No one gives a damn when everyone is paid the same and no amount of taking risks or working harder will improve their station. A doctor won't give a fuck when they're being paid the same as a person who scrubs toilets.

> i always hear on /pol/ that communism is stupid and never works and just causes death

Why the fuck would believe us? Communism is fucking great!

>>136809390
im not valuing life of niggers, "The goal of socialism is communism" - Vladimir Lenin

>>136809444
it only has rewards if you have money

>>136809261
Hopefully they kill the poor.

>>136809567
Get more money.

>>136809353
Exactly, JFK said: “I have come to the conclusion that fascism is right for Germany and Italy. What are the evils of fascism compared to communism?” He also added that the Nordic races are definitely superior to their Latin counterparts, too bad the Ancient Romans and kin became liberals and mixed.

>>136808946
>socialism vs capitalism
The age old false dichotomy.

>>136809629
I think he took several vacations in Germany before the war.

>>136809595
Fucking idiot, let's go fascist

>>136809595
thats easier said then done.

>>136809353
>>136809924
fascism is even less successful and no one even knows if it would work long term

>>136809747
I believe so, I wonder if he wrote that it was the best time of his life, like Jessie Owens. he he

File: baided.png (22KB, 651x429px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 651x429px

>>136809188
You seem to mistake my shitposting as something serious.

>>136810081
Why are you wearing that flag?

File: 13402668_293852620957686_1931835673_n.jpg (52KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 480x480px

>>136810143
i never take any dutchman serious

>>136810189
i like it and it makes fascist larpers sperg out

>>136810081
Economically, fascism was very successful. If you want a long term example, just look at Francos Spain. They didn't quite manage to catch up to western and central Europe, but they did much better than democratic Spain.

>>136809261
in the totality of socialism, yes, social democracy is socialism, so is natsoc and so on

>>136810299
and where is it now? it did not even manage to last as long as the soviet union

>>136810414
i wonder (((why)))

>>136810257
I guess it would, in the same way that a communist wearing an Ancap flag might make a libertarian sperg out.

>>136810473
its always daa jooos huh? never anyone elses?

>>136810506
exactly, but i do believe that the soviet union had potential for greatness but im not really a commie

>>136810414
Because it became a democracy after Franco died.

>>136810567
it's always the bankers

File: 1500970402258.jpg (65KB, 279x372px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 279x372px

>>136810567
Nazi Germany went from a debt stricken country of hunger, unemployment and degeneracy to the most educated and most powerful nation on the planet in under 9 years under fascism, and it took virtually the entire planet to destroy it. i can not think of a more successful political system

File: IMG_0119.png (933KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

933KB, 640x640px

>>136808992
>real commu... ehhr, i mean capitalism has never been tried!

True capitalism has never been tried.

>>136810596
if all it takes is for the leader to die then it is not successful, i believe if a countries government is successful then it can live on after its leader dies. the soviet union lived after stalin but he knew it would eventually die without him

>>136810693
bankers, jews whats the difference really? it never seems to be anybody else who is at fault

>>136810767
the old "it took the entire planet to destroy it" cop out, a true master race doesnt need to act like a bunch of niggers and invade everything in sight, either way it got destroyed, doesnt matter how many countries were involved . no master race can be destroyed

File: nazbol shills.png (123KB, 1886x855px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 1886x855px

>>136808946
>Nazbol kike shills are still trying to shill

>>136810414
>and where is it now? it did not even manage to last as long as the soviet union
If this isn't an argument against communism it isn't an argument against fascism.

>>136808946
Capitalism with a regulations (anti-monopolies), a little bit of socialism, but only for the ones who really needs it. All of it based on christianity(bible) and it's morality, which will make things like usury illegal. Ohh... and the most important part is our economy should focused on production not on service.

>>136810977
>>136810767
no REAL master race anyway

>>136810337
Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production. This is the only true definition of socialism, any other definition is ignorance

>>136811051
its arguement that non of these systems have worked.

>>136811045
do you hear me saying that communism is the best thing ever? fascist larpers are some of the dumbest people on this board

>>136811116
What about the definition that existed before marx?

>>136810337
I can't say much about natsoc but social democracy is capitalist. Socialism means seizing the means of prodcution, socdem respects private property.

>>136810977
you know next to nothing about WWII if you think Germany wanted to "invade everything in sight"

>>136808946
How many successful commie/socialist countries can you name anon?

>>136811187
Which systems?

>>136811231
i know it wanted western Europe and russia, i can understand what happened with austria and poland

>>136809188
>Commie flag
>Not advocating communism
Care to explain?

>>136811308
fascism, capitalism and communism/socialism

>>136810977
The King just decided he didn't want the responsibility and turned it back into a democracy. That was Francos one mistake, his policies were fascist but at heart he was still a ractionary. If someone decent was made head of state it could have continued indefinitely. With democracy also came economic decline.

>>136811369
it triggers people like you, its kinda ironic you are saying this considering your flag

>>136811431
if the people truly loved the fascist government why didnt they fight to have it reinstated?

>>136811383
And instead you would propose something that's never failed? Which is?
If you don't make your position clear people will just argue against the position they assume you have, and it makes no sense for you to be as butthurt about that as you are.

>>136810767
but yet it fell... taking Europe down with it

>>136811315
>it wanted eastern Europe and Russia
what in the fuck? are you seriously that brainwashed?
Hitler wanted only to reclaim the GERMAN cities with GERMAN people living in them that were stolen by Poland in the treaty of Versailles.
as well as wanting to unite all German countries into one country (Austria is a German country that speaks German but is now forbidden from uniting with Germany)

>>136811522
Go ahead, make presuppositions about my feelings.

>>136811215
Yes, since the French Revolution. So Venezuela, Canada, and Scandanavia are not socialist nations

>>136810977
>bankers, jews whats the difference really? it never seems to be anybody else who is at fault
depends what we're talking about. war? always the bankers friendo, most politicians are a meme until you get one in every thousand who cares about their country and actually tries to do something that disrupts the status quo leading to their country getting (((invaded)))- mussolini, hitler, gaddafi and so on

>>136811116
Tell me anon can socialism ever be implemented into society because at the moment it has failed miserably.

>>136810977
>act like a bunch of niggers and invade everything in sight
didn't realise i was talking to a historically illiterate autist, carry on friendo

>>136808946
>is capitalism really any better?

Yes, on minimum wage an air conditioned apartment with all the household appliances, free time to play vidya, spending money, real food, freedom to change to my job, and do whatever I want.

Or I could move to Venezuela.

>>136810767
>debt stricken
they didn't want to pay their debts, which were
ALL THE REPARATIONS THEY OWED FROM LOSING WW1 TO THEIR VICTIMS

they hated the idea of having to pay for their crimes, they kept all the money they had, much of it stolen, and used it to rebuild their military
>under fascism
more like nasty greedy fucks who saw nothing wrong with acting like FUCKING MUSLIMS, to invade, rob, murder, plunder, rape, and grabbing all the land they thought they could get

>i cannot think of a more successful political system
pure naked fucking greed, and willing to murder for treasure, is what drove the (((fascism)))
they wanted to out-jew the jews and went overboard
for them fascism was just hostility to get treasure, to seize anything and anyone and do anything using state authority to give them overwhelming force against individuals

>stralyan
>le edgy nazi fascist woo
many such cases! sad!

Capitalism is the default state of mankind. It's literally the solution to absolutely everything. Everything extreme right-wingers want to do can be achieved through capitalism without the extra steps.

Why would you need to gas or shoot degenerates, if you can leave them in a fully capitalist society where they'll slowly die on their own? Pure capitalism encourages both individualism and staying in touch with your culture and heritage. People would live in small communities and the degenerate ones would die off. Imagine white people living in one community and niggers in another.

Read some Hoppe.

>>136811522
They looked to the democracies around them and saw that those were still better than Spain (though the gap had steadily become smaller during Francos rule). After the democracy was installed Spain started to decline but at that time it was already too late.

>>136811678
strange is moscow a german city? is paris a german city? was all of his talk of Lebensraum in east just for shits and giggles? was the
invasion a france just a big misunderstanding?

>>136811838
>literal nigger excuse
>he a good boy dindu nuffin

i guess that big war that happened didnt happen and it wasnt german armies marching into france and russia and other places huh? must have been the mexicans

>>136811116
>>136811229
you're both retarded, in the same way that current USA is capitalist due to being a derivative of capitalism, finland, denmark, sweden and so on are socialist nations in the totality of things
>>136811229
also thats not what socialism means nor what social democracy means. social democracy is socialism achieved through democracy

>>136811903
muh Germany wanted to take over the world
muh Nazi's were evil greedy devils
muh Germany rebuilt their military because they wanted a war

>current year and still being this fucking brainwashed

>>136811821
Yeah, it can actually. It turned China and Russia, two countries that had a history of abuse by smaller nations, into contenders for global superpowers. It allowed small countries like Cuba and Vietnam from becoming client states to parasitic capitalist countries.
As for failures, this can mostly be attributed to the brutal campaign against of counter-revolution sponsored by the US in Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, Korea, Iran, etc

>>136811742
The word socialism was first used in 1833.

>>136812105
>attacking a country that declared war on you is wrong
>attacking the soviet union before it could carry out its plan of communist states all over Europe is wrong
???

File: 1500416681534.jpg (191KB, 853x480px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 853x480px

>>136812268
Pic related

>>136811903
>germany caused WW1
I didn't realize that people other than nazis were this historically revisionist lol.

>>136812182
Social democracy is a capitalist state with a strong social safety net similar to a welfare state
Democratic socialism is socialism through democracy

File: DF59GyWXkAER8qO.jpg (71KB, 777x383px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 777x383px

>>136808946

>>136812435
that picture would be correct of it instead showed Churchill, Stalin and a kike

File: nazi heart.png (13KB, 128x117px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 128x117px

the only thing you need is national socialism

>>136812407
stalin never had any intentions like that, he believed in socialism in one state.
there is a difference between attacking a country that declared war on you and completely occupying it with no intention of returning any of said captured territory, hitlers biggest fuck up was invading the soviet union instead of allying with them, that and him thinking he knew more then his generals because he was a corporal in ww1

>>136812356
Strangely enough though it made china more lenient to Capitalist systems and Russia into basically a Capitalist dictatorship of sorts so... In the end Capitalism comes through.

>>136812057
>Pure capitalism encourages both individualism and staying in touch with your culture and heritage.
Not really. pure capitalism has nothing to do with culture cuz it isn't profitable. Free market would end like industrial revolution, which was one big exploitation of working class that kept them at edge of starvation. Capitalism works when it is based on morality.

>>136812182


What you call democracy is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, you choose your master puppet from the capitalists and only in that sense is democracy, but obviously not true democracy because workers don't get to decide democratically what is done with the means of production.

>>136812520
no the distinction between the two is one being socialism in the framework of the superior capitalist economy and the other is the same but with a hardline socialist economy- both are socialism achieved through democracy

File: 1491079806217.jpg (1MB, 2697x2433px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2697x2433px

>>136812523

by the same logic

>>136808946
What about mixed economies?

>>136812182
>also thats not what socialism means nor what social democracy means. social democracy is socialism achieved through democracy

Good quality bait but I bite it anyway.

What you say is democratic socialism, not social democracy. Democratic socialists are still socialists who aim to seize the means of production bla bla but they want to use democracy to achieve their goals. That's the only different between "power to the soviets!" classical socialists and them.

Social democracy is a free market economy system where private property etc all that are respected.

>>136812822
Hmm can you explain what accomplishments Socialism has produced?

>>136812746
Right because workers know better than the producer who actually researched the market and bases it's pricing system in a market based demand and supply model. Have you seen workers in a general factory? They get paid to do something, not to decide what they do with "their" product.

>>136812686
China, of course, is more lenient but it doesn't mean it has abandoned the workers plight. China still has it's full soverignty and that is owed entirely to communism. Compare this to Japan which is riddled with US military bases

>>136812958

SOCIAL ACHIEVEMENTS :
First and totally FREE public education system, which achieved the highest rates of literacy in history in the 15 Soviet republics. Moreover, Soviet schools offered free food for students, so the work-life balance is made much easier than today in the capitalist countries. Even kindergartens were also free.
First FREE and universal health care system, which increased the life expectancy of the Soviets, less than 40 years in 1917, to reach Western levels in 80 (70 years). The achievements of hunger eradication and health systems can also compare with the average height of the Soviets in 1917 (1,60 m) to 1980 (1,80 m). This health system discovered painless childbirth and performed the first organ transplant.
Between 1945 and 1964, the Soviet national income grew by 570%, compared to 55% in the USA (and remember that the USSR was not a Marshal Plan to help the country)
Invention of evening studies so that workers could build careers.
First country in history where abortion was legal and free (since 1920)
First country in history to achieve an unemployment rate at 0%
Equality policies, one of the first countries to adopt women's suffrage
First woman in history to hold a position in a government (Aleksandra Kollontai)

File: 1500291694958.jpg (92KB, 604x552px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 604x552px

>>136808946

>>136812596
then why did he have the red army deployed on the border between German and soviet Poland?

>>136813038
NATO Ally =/= non-sovereignity.

>>136813003

workers include very smart people such scientists and engineers

>>136812958

SCIENTIFIC-TECHNOLOGICAL ACHIEVEMENTS:
SPACE :
Tata Sky Development System (direct broadcast satellite)
Prime spacesuit, CH-1 (1931)
First multistage rocket (1947)
Creating the staged combustion (1949)
First spaceport, Baikonur Cosmodrome (1957)
First orbiting satellite, Sputnik 1 (1957)
First living being in orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2 (1957)
First man-made object to leave the Earth's orbit, Luna 1 (1959)
First telemetry communication to and from off the ground, Luna 1 (1959)
First object to pass near the moon, and the first object in solar orbit Luna 1 (1959)
First satellite hit the moon, Luna 2 (1959)
First images of the dark side of the moon, Luna 3 (1959)
First satellite to be launched to Mars, Marsnik 1 (1960)
First rocket boots (1960)
Creating space food (1961)
First satellite to Venus, Venera 1 (1961)

>>136812746
yes that is almost the definition of democracy, i'm not sure why you're changing the definition of democracy to be anything more than a system where people choose their leader, seems like gommies refuse to accept legitimate definitions just to make discussion impossible. democracy ≠ capitalism

>>136812803
No, you are absolutely wrong. You can search it if you wish

>>136812958

First person to enter orbit around the Earth, Yuri Gagarin in Vostok 1 (1961)
First person to spend one day in orbit, Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (1961)
First double flight, manned Vostok 3 and Vostok 4 (1962)
First probe on Mars, Mars 1 (1962) made the first pictures of Mars from space
First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6 (1963)
Multitripulado first flight (3 persons), Voskhod 1 (1964)
First spacewalk EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2 (1965)
First probe to hit another planet Venus, Venera 3 (1965)
First probe landing on the moon and transmitted from there, Luna 9 (1966)
First probe into lunar orbit, Luna 10 (1966)
Creation of the Soviet Soyuz spacecraft model (1967), which is the only way that NASA and ESA send astronauts into space
First space bathroom (1967)
First meeting and unmanned docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188 (1967) until 2006 this feat was not mimicked by the USA
Close coupling and exchange of crew in orbit, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5 (1969)
First extraterrestrial samples returned by Luna 16 (1970)
First robot on a celestial body, Lunokhod 1 (1970)
First probe to Venus, Venera 7 (1970)
First data received from a probe on another planet (Venus), Venera 7 (1970)
First space station, Salyut 1 (1971)

>>136813067
this

>>136813119
You're talking about every worker here, not some exceptions. Workers in a regular factory are workers for a reason, they're enot highly educated and know nothing of the market.

>>136812958

First satellite to orbit Mars and make a descent, Mars 2 (1971)
Second robot on a celestial body, Lunokhod 2 (1973) and with the Lunokhod 1 is the only automated mobile laboratories that have explored the Moon guided by remote control until
First satellite to orbit Venus and send data back to Earth Venera 9 (1975)
Creation of the coupling mechanism and docking of spacecraft, Androgynous Peripheral Attach System (1975)
Creating space shuttle Buran (1976), which can carry 30 tons (USA model only 25), return flights with load of 20 tons (USA only 15), with a support rate of 6.5 (compared to 5.5 of the USA model), its auxiliary maneuvering system rockets and use oxygen and kerosene fuel instead of solid (like the USA) and gives better performance. Besides the Buran shuttle could make unmanned missions (USA can't), with ejection seats (the USA model does not have) considered the safest and most effective of the history and design more effective and resilient thermal tiles that USA version
Creating the world's most powerful rocket: Energy (1976), capable of carrying 100 tons
First Spaceship supply unmanned, Progress (1978)
First radio telescope (1979)
First woman to walk in space , Svetlana Savitskaja in Salyut 7 (1984)
First shuttle in orbit to Earth independently, Buran (1984)
First multi module space station: Salyut 7 and Kosmos 1686 (TKS-4) (1985)
First crew to visit two space stations, Mir and Salyut 7 (1986) aboard Soyuz T-15
First permanent space station to orbit Earth, Mir (1986)
First crew to spend over a year on Mir, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov (1987)

>>136811116
In what way does the public not own the means of production in the US you retard?

State controlled capitalism is inherently socialist as it allows anyone in the public to own the means of production. The government is just another corporation which enforces its rule over the population for the benefit of the few.

If you think there's an ideology where the few don't abuse the many you're by definition delusional.

Daily reminder that both Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same coin, a coin thats controlled by Jews.

>>136812958

PHYSICS :
First nuclear power plant, Obninsk (1954)
Development of the largest thermonuclear experimental facility in the world, Tokamak 10, prototype of a thermonuclear reactor
Invention of the Tzar Bomb, the most powerful nuclear bomb in history (100 Mt) whose power was reduced for environmental reasons (50-57 Mt). Comparison to USA bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 15 Mt
Invention of nuclear fusion
Invention of the Tokamak (1956), aiming to provide apparatus fusion plasma particle
Invention of the first nuclear icebreaker "LENIN" world's first nuclear-powered (1952)
Invention of particle accelerator microtron (1944)
Invention synchrotron particle accelerator (1957)
Invention of the electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy (1944)
First fast neutron reactor, BN350 (1955)
Creation pipeline longest history, Druzhba (1964)
First nuclear desalination reactor, BN-350 (1972)
First reflectron (1973)
Creating the largest geotechnical probe history, Kola Well (1970)
Creating BARS Press (1989)

>>136813175
>>136813200

what was the death toll for all that, and how come they still failed to go to the moon first?

it's pretty easy to get people working when they starve to death or get executed if they don't.

>>136813053
>He thinks the old USSR didn't run on greed
Everyone is driven by greed and self improvement. You think people who were KGB agents or party members went in there because they mainly supported the idea? No, they went there because it resulted in a better situation for them socially and economically.

>>136813113
The US has a total of 38 military bases overseas. 26 are in Japan
How comfortable would you be with Chinese bases on your land?

>>136813067
>ignoring the fact that Hitler was a Christian

>>136812596
>he believed in socialism in one state.
Interesting. That state just so happened to be the USSR, and the USSR just so happened to be interested in expanding it's territory into Poland.

>>136808946
My history teacher always told that the difference is in implementation not in the goal.

>>136813255
ah yes your nuclear achievements I wonder though were they achieved through soviet scientists or stolen from americans and the germans

>>136813337
your point?

>>136813329
If they were an ally I wouldn't mind. That's what being an ally is all about. That's what NATO is all about.

>>136812958

ELECTRONICS:
Invention of the LED (Oleg Vladimirovich, 1927)
Invention of vibratory exercise equipment (1960)
Perfecting maser, Basov and Aleksandr Prokhorov Nikolai
Lomography Invention (1982)
First lie detector device, by Alexander Romanovich Luria
Creating underwater welding, Konstantin Khrenov (1932)
First reflector telescope, the Maksutov (1941)
First laser microphone (1947)
Creating the magnetotelluric (1950)
Discovery of the Belousov-Zhabotinski Reaction (1951)
Creation explosive compression generator pumped flow (1951)
Creating 3D holography (1962)
First microwave oven (1941)
First radio antenna

>>136813102
he hardly had any troops deployed on the border, it was hitler who slowly began moving troops to the border, stalin refused to believe any report suggesting an invasion and even when the invasion began he did not order the red army to attack until he had confirmation from berlin that it was not some rogue faction of the german army, stalin did not even have enough troops on the the border with soviet poland let alone the soviet german border in poland itself

>>136812916
>Social democracy is a free market economy system
what the fuck am i even reading, i gave you the distinction; both are socialism through democratic means, the difference is whether it is a predominately socialist model within a heavily regulated capitalist economic model or whether it's just leninism/maoism or whatever through democratic means. they're both socialism in the totality, the difference is insignificant

>>136813175
>>136813200
Capitalism created the Car, Landed man on the moon and of course created the internet.

>>136808946
it's pointless to try and go into all the aspects of capitalist philosophy so i'm not going to try. but i will say that there are countless different ways of thinking that will lead you to the same conclusion on free markets, whether it's in terms of abstract theories of government, macro-economics or individual freedom on philosophical or ethical grounds.

the point isn't so much that capitalism is the ideal system which will solve all of man's problems, it's more that the free market is the best we can make of a bad situation, and it's more about human nature than anything. at the end of the day, we're all selfish when no-one is looking, we look after ourselves and our loved ones before anyone else. the truth is that's not necessarily a bad thing. capitalism is just the system that prohibits the initiation of force, via an army, a police force and a criminal justice system, such that the only way to be truly selfish is to give someone else something they want in return.

It's a system for distributing work and knowledge across a large network of uncountable combinations and permutations of possible transactions which strengthens the whole. what's more is the price system gives you an accurate indication of supply and demand for goods and services that you wouldn't otherwise have. figuring out where scarce resources with multiple uses should be allocated is a very difficult problem once you think about it. that's why there's queues for food in venezuela. anything that fucks with the free market inevitably fucks you.

the reason "capitalist countries" are slowly turning into third world shitholes is because in the 70's everyone agreed capitalism had been enormously successful and concluded that what we needed was more socialism.

>>136812958

MEDICINE:
Invention of therapies against infectious diseases that were based on bacteriophage virus (1940)
Early surgical treatment of congenital heart disease, by pioneering Bukulev Alexander (1948)
Creation of Objective Psychology, by neurologist Vladimir Bekhterev, also known for pointing out the role of the hippocampus in memory, his study of reflexes, and Bekhterev's disease
First successful cornea transplant in 1931, by Vladimir Filatov, who developed tissue therapy
Creating radial keratotomy by Svyatoslav Nikolayevich Fyodorov
Creating the Ilizarov apparatus for lengthening limb bones and for the Ilizarov Surgery (1951) by Gavriil Abramovich Ilizarov
Creating cultural-historical psychology, psychological activity theory and method of "combined power", by Alexander Romanovich Luria
Enlarge criteria for the diagnosis of schizophrenia with the distinction between negative and positive symptoms, a key research and classification of schizophrenia concept, Andrei Snezhnevsky
First cardiac surgery under local anesthesia, Alexander Vishnevsky, 1953
Foundation of purulent surgery, Archbishop Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky, Stalin Prize, Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1946.
Discovery of Cherenkov Effect (Pavel Cherenkov Alekseyecih)
First artificial organ transplant
First transfusion of blood from a corpse, Sergei Yudin, 1929.
First blood bank. Created by Sergei Yudin in early 1930. Middle of that same year, the USSR would have 65 large blood donation centers and more than 500 branches.
Creation of painless childbirth (under anesthesia)
Creating Gramicina S (1942)
First head transplant with full brain function (1950)
Creating anthropometric cosmetology (1952)
Creating radial keratotomy (1974)
Discovery of Vitamins
Discovery of the virus
First acoustic microscope (1959)

File: verner_fon_braun2.jpg (31KB, 584x299px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 584x299px

>>136813382
>stolen from americans and the germans
Educate yourself nigger.

>>136813402
Anon's post claimed that Christianity doesn't deliver but Nazism does, despite Hitler himself being a Christian.

>>136813519
Prove me wrong anon

>>136813410
Do you know how many foreign military bases there are in the US?
Not a single one because the US is not a conquered territory

>>136812958

COMPUTERS:
First programmable computer MESM (1950)
First Soviet and European electronic computers , BESM (Sergey Lebedev, 1951) and MESM (Sergey Lebedev , 1958)
First computer with ternary logic (faster and more reliable than the binary system), Setun (Nikolai Brusentsov, 1958) and model development Setun-70 (Nikolai Brusentsov, 1970) which further reinforced the aspect of programming, improving to by a factor 5 software development over other architectures time
First personal computer, MIR (Victor Glushkov, 1965)
First computer-aided education system in history (Nastavnik), with a clear reference to the current
First superscalar computer (processor microarchitecture capable of executing more than one instruction per clock cycle), Elbrus-1 (Boris Babaian, 1970). The use of this equipment in 1978, ten years before commercial applications appeared in the West, the Soviet Union developed its missile systems and nuclear and space programs.
Foundation of cybernetics (Victor Glushkov)
Invention of Tetris (Alexey Pajitnov, 1984)
Invention of the FAR file manager, RAR and WinRAR format file (Eugene Roshal)
First computer animated character.
First mobile phone, Leonid Ivanovich Kupriyanovich (1955), which was copied by the USA in 1970 and Finland in 1980 gave him a civil use with Nokia.

>>136812741
If people sorted themselves into small communities depending on the culture it would definitely be profitable, as people are willing to pay for things connected to their culture and beliefs.

File: woah who woulda thunk it.png (30KB, 1259x224px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 1259x224px

>>136813166
gee who woulda thunk my definitions are practically word for word

>>136813102
if stalin actually had real numbers of troops on polish germen soviet border then german armies would never had advanced as fast as they did, you make it sound as if the soviets were going to be the aggressors when the germans were massing 150 divisions on the border, thats over 3 million men but yup the soviets are the real bad guys

>>136813615
Not a single mention of socialism

>>136813587
That's not the reason. The reason is that this was agreed on by NATO members themselves. It's easier to have the US in your country than spend a lot on it yourself. Also having the US as an ally with the Russians in the east makes a lot of countries feel safer.

>>136813668
but the soviets literally were the bad guys

>>136813503
those are achievements of an individual... or are you going to Obama it, "you didn't build that!"

File: woahhhh.png (17KB, 636x300px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 636x300px

>>136813707
so true comrade, economic and social intervention, income redistribution, welfare state and so on isn't socialist at all

>>136813789
thats why they attacked first and had so much trust in germany huh?

>>136813571
Look at the photo. >>136813519

File: aleksandras-mozajevas-65051555.jpg (69KB, 900x625px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 900x625px

>>136808946
There's nothing else but senseless murder in order to steal what you need instead of to trade for it.
Don't think of capitalism as a way, its the end.

File: 1499998348289.jpg (116KB, 784x701px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 784x701px

>>136813894
okay i'm just going to link this video
watch it if you want, you probably wont
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RfwBR_hcG8&list=PLTchH4wY9kakD4ydD2fMrNakgYDd8Gjtg&index=12&ab_channel=TheImpartialTruth

>>136813713
It's a typical extortion scheme. Similar to the mafia and paying "protection"
>>136813893
This definition is wrong. Someone should fix it

>>136814196
maybe just accept the consensus instead of expecting definitions to conform to your ideological views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9X_gxD9YYg

One of the inherent underlying differences between the two is that capitalism relies on the fact that people work at their best under competition. Communism relies on people working at their best under teamwork, and looking at the bigger picture, caring for the country more than themselves.

From European Empires, to East Asian provinces, there's enough evidence out there for us to assume people work at their best with competitors to defeat.

>>136814181
i have seen this and have no problem with germanys actions towards poland. my issue is with its unnecessary aggression towards russia. together with stalin hitler could have achieved his 1000 year reich that he so wanted but he had such a unshakable fear of communism that he just could not do it and forced himself to believe that the soviet union would attempt to take over europe. in reality stalin had no real interest in anything besides eastern europe and in fact in later years, the countries that made up the eastern bloc proved to be a drain on the soviet economy which was otherwise growing rapidly

Yet another commie shill thread. What a surprise.

>>136814620
>commie shil thread

gee its almost like you havent actually read any posts in this thread and just get instantly triggerd at the sight of a hammer and sickle

>>136814716
Nah, I read through most of the thread and I already have a gopd idea of it. Blah blah muh ebil nahtzees blah blah muh socialism could be ok blah blah muh based USSR etc etc
>t-triggured!
Kindly head on to reddit.

True Communism requires the collapse of Capitalism, according to Marx. And this has never happened.

>>136811860
and the rest of the world, you know the other 75% that live in poverty because of capitalism, do they also have free time and food.

>>136814794
thank your for making it clear you have no idea what this thread is about, but since you clearly lack the comprehension skills to understand i will dumb it down for you, communism/socialism, fascism and capitalism are all systems that dont work and result in death and misery, there that wasnt so hard was it?

>>136814620
at least not a nazi shill thread

>>136813478
"created the internet"? internet was created in the state sector.

>>136814977
>communism/socialism, fascism and capitalism are all systems that dont work and result in death and misery,
It's almost like death and misery is the constant fact of reality and the job of the political and social system is to minimize that death and misery. Really makes you think.
>>136815012
You're on a nazi board lad. That's like going onto /r/feelthebern and bitching about commies.

>>136814181
if he hadn't attacked the soviets, Berlin would have fallen much much sooner
it was a preemptive attack that was at the time necessary for survival
of course there is a lot of debate deciding whether or not Stalin really was going to attack
but I think that because it was called Nazi propaganda almost immediately after inquiries were made, it means that (((they))) knew it was evidence that worked against them. and anyway any kind of argument that even somewhat shows sympathy towards Hitler is almost always never treated with rationality. and with no other evidence or reason why Hitler would attack, and with Nazi Germany proclaiming that it was a preemptive attack themselves that it is fair to say that Stalin was at least doing SOMETHING to antagonize Germany on their eastern border

>>136813526
No, Hitler was not a Christian. His words on religion mean nothing. His actions tell us what he was.

“You can identify them by their fruit...”
Matthew 7:16

>>136814594
>>136815161
woops

>>136815126
>You're on a nazi board
who said so

File: 1500855033486.png (134KB, 853x1025px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 853x1025px

>>136810081
>thats easier said than done
so make it as easy as possible by removing barriers into the market

>>136810859
>>136810866
not true, there has been small pockets of ancapistans throughout history. technically it exists in modern day, wherever markets are left alone

>>136811116
public 'ownership' is illusory.
even in a perfectly egaltarian utopia, where everyone was nurtured in an identical fashion, some people are just born "more equal" than others. those are the sorts of people who truly own what is falsely attributed to the 'public'.

>>136812057
this.

>>136815126
none of these systems have done much of a good job at minimizing death and misery it kinda almost seems like they cause more death and misery. just because nazi larpers shit all over this board doesnt mean it is a "nazi" board, thats like saying /pol/ is a christian board

>>136815043

Soviet union was working on computer networks before the ARPANET but the project was rejected by the politburo (OGAS) sadly.

>>136815287
>was brought up as a catholic
>swastika flag was based off a flag he saw at church regularly
>franco lamented his death calling him the son of the catholic church
>frequently said that he was aiding the lord by fighting jewery
>german soldiers marched into the USSR with a belt buckle with the words "Gott mitt uns" on them
>not a christian tho lol amirite xd
This board is 18+.
>>136815317
Moot did back in 2012 when he bitched about us being Stormfront 2.0.

>>136814898
not really because of capitalism and the poverty line distinction thing is retarded due to economies of scale. see, all the exploited countries inevitably end up wealthy, just look at singapore, malaysia, china, next will be india (already happening to some extent) and after that will be africa. you can't blame capitalism for third worlders shitting out eight kids in a famine.

>>136815337
>it kinda almost seems like they cause more death and misery
Compared to what? Anarchy? Feudalism? What exactly is your basis for your "death and misery" quotient? All you're doing is bitching about le meanie means and hurty hurts without having a solution
>l-larper! larper!
Approximately as effective as going around screaming "KIKE ON A STICK KIKE ON A STICK". Go home and revise your insults.

>>136814977
i'm just not seeing how facist systems resulted in death and misery outside of war, in both cases it seems like it thrived economically and i'm not even a facist. you can say hitler was a bad guy and all for invading belgium and so on to unite all the german speaking nations but that's not really a fault of the system so much as it is the fault of the individual

>implying private ownership rights are a bad thing

Yes, let's make everything (((publicly))) owned by the (((state))).

>>136815161
and what if maybe just maybe the soviets would have helped in hitlers war effort against britain and france and maybe even america if they were to get involved? stalins attitude towards britain was far more negative then it was towards germany as shown by how much more willing stalin was to negotiate with hitler over the poland issue, hitlers generals were strongly against a war with the soviets and maybe he should have listened. the soviet union had no intention of attacking germany until germany actually attacked them. the preemptive strike was ultimately a wrong move and hitler could have changed the whole outcome of the war if he just decided to be allies with the soviets

>>136815600
the basis is they all cause death and misery when they promise happiness and peace or prosperity etc, when you act like a retarded larper you get called a larper sorry man.

>>136815714
maybe in hitlers case it was bad but there has been no surviving fascist country that has demonstrated that it is superior to any other form of rule

>>136815460
It's 2k17 now, so things change over time.

>>136815894
>the basis is they all cause death and misery when they promise happiness and peace or prosperity
Happiness and peace or prosperity in comparison to other systems. Like how marxism promises happiness and peace in comparison to capitalism and fascism in comparison to both. What you're not getting here is that they promise that they are better, not the best and certainly not perfect. It is literally impossible to get rid of misery or death without completely destroying the facet of emotion or the facet of human mortality
>when you act like a retarded larper you get called a larper sorry man.
Considering that all you've done this thread is call everyone with a fascist or nazi flag a LARPer irregardless of argument I have a feeling you might be lying about that metric.

>>136815714
that is not to say i dont like how hitler improved germany without the use of war. it was all downhill once the he started getting more and more militarily active. power makes you want more sadly and it is difficult not to go mad with power in fascist or communist systems

>>136816072
It changed because of newfags like you who don't even know what /new/ is.

>>136808946
National Socialism is the future all other ideologies harm the people of the nation.

>>136815894
italy was thriving until mussolini was overthrown which was at the fault of hitlers warmongering imo, there are other countries that might be seen as facist such as china but idk if i'd really say that it is rather than an average authoritarian government, facism generally has some economic intervention and the like

>>136816116
you really dont get it do you? they all promise things they cant deliever no matter what system it is. i havent really called anyone a larper except you, i have stated i use this flag because it triggers just about anyone with a nazi or fascist flag and i find it funny. you seemed to be awfully upset about being called a larper

>>136816141
maybe, hitler seems like more of a hellbent on revenge for WW1 kind of guy rather than someone who was corrupted by the system itself

>>136816334
>you really dont get it do you? they all promise things they cant deliever no matter what system it is
So you're telling me that capitalism fails to be better than communism, even slightly? And fascism likewise? Again, you're bitching about meanie means without even giving a solution.
>i havent really called anyone a larper except you
Well I'm certainly not who you're responding to in >>136810257 or >>136811187, unless you have some sort of weird "everyone I don't like is a samefag" mentality.
>y-you're mad! y-you're upset!
Yawn.

>>136816222
You're absolutely right, my friend.

>>136812356
China did NOT become the rapidly advancing country it is today without the opening of their trade in 1978 not to mention only 3% of companies are owned by the state

>>136808946
Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's way better than socialism. Capitalism gives you more freedom

Thank god we've already got a good system now. that being Capitalism with mixed economies.

>>136816305
if italy was thriving how come so many people fled the country before the war even started? why were people so happy to see him dead that they strung him up at a gas station. but i agree maybe it was thriving before hitler had Mussolini deploy troops for him.

>>136816429
i think he used his love for germany as a cover to get revenge for ww1, but in the end he did not care what happened to germany and killed himself, if that is indeed what happened. but towards the end he could have done so much more to prevent the soviet revenge that was coming.

>>136816517
thats the whole point of the thread, what is the solution, since none of these systems has worked. what can humanity do about this? all everyone has done has stated fascism or communism or capitalism is the solution when they obviously are not, my point is we need something new. if you are going to talk can you say more then im bitching or continue to drone on about being called a larper?

>>136813612
People already sort themselves into communities. It just so happens that it's more efficient for everyone to trade with one another (globalism). Ancaps have an autistic imaginary idea of how society would change so drastically if government didn't exist without realising government itself is the product of market forces and the motivations of individuals.

Capitalism is like a less shittier version of Communism, they are two different sides of the same coin.
Fascism >> anything else

>b-but im weak minded or greedy fascism isnt good!!

>>136815805
That's not how you use triple parentheses. Cringe at your attempt to try and make /pol/ ancap by dismissing any higher purpose as Jewish.

>>136816881
>thats the whole point of the thread, what is the solution, since none of these systems has worked. what can humanity do about this?
The first question you should ask yourself is for what reason are you blacklisting these systems? If you have no definite reason then you shouldn't be blacklisting them at all.
>all everyone has done has stated fascism or communism or capitalism is the solution when they obviously are not
How so? All you say is "they don't work" without saying why they don't work
>if you are going to talk can you say more then im bitching or continue to drone on about being called a larper?
All I did was make an offhand comment on your weak ad hominem and what appears to be either rampant dementia or blatant lying. If you consider this element to be worth more than the majority of what makes up the rest of my posts then you should be asking if you are the triggered one here.

File: act for israel.jpg (130KB, 1229x935px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 1229x935px

>>136808946
Stop circle jerking around lesser white Ideology. Now is the time to act for Israel. Join Act . il, an app designed for the young JIDF agent of tomorrow. Be part of the future for a better Israel online.
>Includes tasks
>Pergs
>Jew of the month ranking
Join today, make Ziosnism Great Again


>http://act-il.com/
>https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=vka8HiAa6SY

File: 1501777791561.jpg (115KB, 670x425px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 670x425px

>>136812523

>Capitalism failures

>>136816881
>if italy was thriving how come so many people fled the country before the war even started? why were people so happy to see him dead that they strung him up at a gas station. but i agree maybe it was thriving before hitler had Mussolini deploy troops for him.
because the people don't know whats good for them. have you met the majority of people? they're brainlets corrupted by the tendrils of consumerism and materialism

>>136816949
Economically, fascism is capitalistic.

>>136817142
can you seriously not understand why im blacklisting these systems by now? communism has caused the death of millions, facism has caused the death of millions, capitalism has caused the death of millions. if that is not good enough for you then i dont know what else to tell you, you obviously must not care about the amount of deaths that have been caused in the goal to "improve" life when they really have not, if that is not a good enough for you then i dont know what is.

>>136817438
the people of today seem to relay on what the government has to say and is less prone to any rebellion unlike long ago. im not saying that is a bad thing and i agree a majority of people dont know whats good for them and it always takes a single visionary or a group of them to actually give the people what they want. or at least what they think they want

>>136817821
>communism has caused the death of millions
How so?
>facism has caused the death of millions
How so?
>capitalism has caused the death of millions
How so?
You're not explaining how or why these systems are bad, you're just saying "this is bad what do halp guyz plox plox". Obviously I take a strong anti-communist stance and I'm against the free market, but I have my arguments and reasoning as to why those are bad. You've just said "they're bad because they did bad things abloo bloo"

If you don't like private property, give away your own shit to the poor of the world and kill yourself.

>>136817981
why do i need to explain these things to you you make it obvious you already know the flaws? if deaths of untold amounts of people is not a good enough reason then you must just be one of those people who only care if it directly affects you. im not going to step by step explain to you how each of these systems has caused death and misery, you are not a child and im sure you know how unless you are actually retarded, this is not "this is bad what do halp guyz plox plox" type of thread im trying to actually see if /pol/ can collectively come up with an answer, so maybe our children can live in a better world then we live in

>>136818701
>why do i need to explain these things to you you make it obvious you already know the flaws
What I'm trying to do here is get a good understanding of why you dislike them. You say they kill people. Fine. How do they kill people? On purpose? Accidentally? Through war? Mass execution? Starvation? How is it that these people die and why? Is it really the system that kills them or are they killed by some other extraneous factor? Or is it the extraneous factor that influences the system to kill them?
There are so many things you're not thinking of, and you decide that your first priority is to call people LARPers. Sad.

How about none.

File: Ultimate Alliance.png (851KB, 5498x2198px) Image search: [Google]

851KB, 5498x2198px

>>136808946
Stop the fighting, we are friends.
Together we can do great things

>>136818901
again with the fucking larping. alright here, these systems all give mass amounts of power to either a single person or a small group of people, these people or person, decide the fate of all those in there country or sometimes in surrounding countries, these deaths can be caused by war, famine, mass execution or even just incompetence on the leaderships part.

>>136819264
ultimately all these systems give someone or somebody power and people always want more power wand will do anything to get it

>>136819257
i agree

File: Ultimate Alliance.jpg (435KB, 2048x1822px) Image search: [Google]

435KB, 2048x1822px

>>136819488
Yes, you agree, but will we ever find a way to make everyone agree ?

>>136819264
>again with the fucking larping. alright here
I legitimately don't think you know what LARPing is. You're like one of those angry children on /mu/ who call everything pretentious.
>these systems all give mass amounts of power to either a single person or a small group of people
Really? Does capitalism do that? Because last time I checked capitalism functions irregardless of the dominating governing system, be it democracy or autocracy or anarchy.
>decide the fate of all those in there country or sometimes in surrounding countries
So what exactly are you proposing then? Anarchy? Or do you want a big government so that the power is handed to a larger group of people rather than a small group? Furthermore what's wrong with handing all the power to a single competent leader or a small group of competent leaders?
>these deaths can be caused by war, famine, mass execution or even just incompetence on the leaderships part.
Is war really the fault of the system if the system is the one being dragged into it though?
>>136819450
So you're proposing anarchy then. You prefer that everyone kill each other than the state kill everyone. Good job.
>>136819488
Good job falling for the /leftypol/ propaganda too, clearly you have no understanding on why natsoc and communism are polar opposites.

>>136808946
Nice try but, prosperity directly proportional to economic freadom. Take your five year plans and shove them up your ass!

File: 1501717339847.jpg (29KB, 334x266px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 334x266px

>>136808946
>be a rich well fed kid with advanced electronic devices
>take electricity, food, internet, and air conditioning for granted
>complain your system doesnt work

Capitalism creates utopian abundance.
The problem is with the people that cant pissibly have enough.
I fucking bet that when i'm old rich kids on Mars with sexy robot maids cooking breakfast and sucking their dicks will be posting on VR that capitalism is shit.

The solution is human genetic engineeting.
Capitalism is fine, YOU dnt work so we will have to fix you instead.

>>136819676
capitalism gives power to the coportaions who in return have massive power over most countries of the world, im not proposing anything as i dont know what the the solution is, it is hard to come up with a solution for human nature, i think that soviet union and nazi german union could have been the deciding factor of ww2 and dont think of it as a /leftypol/ meme but maybe as something that could have helped actually achieve hitler 1000 year reich but think what ever you want i dont care. opposites attract

>>136817214
No

>>136820018
>capitalism gives power to the coportaions who in return have massive power over most countries of the world
The free market does. Government regulated capitalism doesn't.
>im not proposing anything as i dont know what the the solution is
From what I'm reading you clearly seem to believe that a stateless society is the solution considering how revulsive you find any sort of hierarchy or governance. In fact I'd argue that what you're droning on about is textbook marxism.
>i think that soviet union and nazi german union could have been the deciding factor of ww2
Yes, because we all know how good of an idea it is to take to mortal enemies and make them work together. Newsflash: reality is not your favorite anime. Even if they had allied together and won they would have gone to war with each other after that.
>but think what ever you want i dont care. opposites attract
I don't know if you saw the site rules but this website is 18+.

File: 2W4Q2Jh.jpg (14KB, 480x319px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 480x319px

>>136812822
>Communist policy starves millions
>"by the same logic, the hurricane catrina was the fault of capitalism"
Commies are so retarded its hilarious.

>>136819676
>natsoc and communism are polar opposites

What are the Strasser brother tho


>>136819777
>thinking like a jew

Good goy

>>136820389
>What are the Strasser brother tho
A pair of communists who made their own ideology which is basically just socialist fascism. Nothing about them is natsoc, in fact they spent more time bitching about Hitler being "too antisemitic" instead of thinking through their retarded fucking ideology. Thank god they died painfully.

>>136820280
hitler made the soviets his mortal enemy not the other way around, i do not believe in a stateless society. i believe we need some sort of authoritarian rule, you think so closed minded, you have no idea what would have happened if they had allied and won the war and sadly we will never know

>>136820389
>I would rather live in poverty than have people be richer than me
Thinking like a retard.

>>136820018
Communism gives power to the state.

One way or another somebody has tge power.
It should better be the corporations, becaise they are driven by avarice which is the only rational or predictable human emotion.
When they want money you know what to expect.
When senile thiefs, murderers and psychopats ftom KGB want to impress the world - you're fucked.
>muh USSR wuz first in sace
At expense of entire population either in gulag or on food stamps, the party builds the rockets, the people wipe their asses with newspaper because theres no toilet paper.

Go wipe your first world ass wth a newspaper, have a little taste of statism.

>>136820621
i thought i have stated that communism is not a good system either enough in this thread already

>>136820540
>hitler made the soviets his mortal enemy not the other way around
Except that's untrue considering that Stalin already had plans to invade Europe long before Hitler had even invaded Poland. Why else do you think he purposely delayed his end of the Molotova-Ribbentrop pact by 2 weeks to fuck with Hitler?
>i believe we need some sort of authoritarian rule
So you're pro-fascism then? But doesn't fascism lead to one or a few people having all the power? Isn't that what authoritarianism is in general?
>you think so closed minded, you have no idea what would have happened if they had allied and won the war and sadly we will never know
I do however have common sense, which is apparently something you're severely lacking in.

>>136820540
Authoritarianism is what communism is, in practice.

>>136820709
Socialism and Communism are quite frankly interchangeable. Their differences are minute compared to the fact that they're both anti private property.

>>136820621
my family came from russia to escape the tsar and they probably would have done the same if they stayed long enough for the commies to come around

>>136820764
what proof do you have that stalin was planning any invasion of Europe? he wouldnt even order his troops to attack the germans once he got confirmation from berlin that they were attacking, i am not pro fascist but i believe we need law and order, you do not have common sense from what i have seen

>>136820557
I'm not a communist, I just think that you shouldn't let corporations do freely whatever they want to do.

>>136820524
I hope you die the same way.

>>136820920
Yes, but most retarded commies think otherwise.

>>136820709
Theres no perfect system, because the people behind it arent perfect.
In a perfect world both communism could work, capitalusm would be great and monarchy/dictatorship would be benevolent.

But in real life they all fuck you over.

If you want to solve this you need active transhumanusm, not a political system.
Why would you expect fcking animals to ever have a perfect system? Gotta be a perfect being first.

File: 1480254449961.jpg (405KB, 998x1214px) Image search: [Google]

405KB, 998x1214px

>>136820920
You've got it the wrong way around. Communism is authoritarian in practice. Not all authoritarian states are communist. See Pinochet, Fascist Italy, the NSDAP, Falangist Spain, George Lincoln Rockwell, Oswald Mosley...
>>136820993
>what proof do you have that stalin was planning any invasion of Europe?
Not much, just clear battle plans that drew out the overall plan to completely absorb the countries into the USSR or at least make them puppet states.
>i am not pro fascist but i believe we need law and order
Which leads to a few people having all the power. Isn't that exactly what you were bitching about not too long ago?
>you do not have common sense from what i have seen
You don't even know what "LARP" means. I'd feel very sorry for your parents if you were above the age of 13.
>>136821071
Edge edge and edgy.

>>136820540
>I believe we need some sort of authoritarian rule
>>136819264
>these systems all give mass amounts of power to either a single person or a small group of people, these people or person, decide the fate of all those in there country or sometimes in surrounding countries, these deaths can be caused by war, famine, mass execution or even just incompetence on the leaderships part.
?????

>>136812822
Are these deaths a result of the economic policies of capitalism? No? Thought so.

>>136821071
You support Strasser and support socialism in you OP, these do not have private property, can only function with a massive government and are empirically very poor at raising the quality of life of its citizens.

>>136821199
>You've got it the wrong way around. Communism is authoritarian in practice. Not all authoritarian states are communist. See Pinochet, Fascist Italy, the NSDAP, Falangist Spain, George Lincoln Rockwell, Oswald Mosley...

Those are authoritarians, true; and they're not communists (in name), true..... But when you have an authoritarian government it takes the shape of whatever the dictator wants it to take. Whether you call it communist of whatever; it's the qualities of the dictator that determine the image of the state.

That's how "communist" china can be, in some ways, more capitalistic than the US.

>>136821199
how many times you going to go on about larping? honestly just shut about it already . because i believe we need law and order means im pro fascist now? plenty of countries were drawing up battle plans, you know like germany except germany actually carried out there battle plans, face it the soviets had no intention of taking anything past eastern europe and they were willing to negotiate with germany for what they wanted, they already shilled out millons for the Baltics states, not something i would do if i was plotting war.

>>136821440
>But when you have an authoritarian government it takes the shape of whatever the dictator wants it to take
Which has nothing to do with communism at all... In fact communist philosophy opposes dictatorship. Too bad reality says otherwise.

>>136821440
If the dictator lets the market do the market things and doesnt fuck with economy you have something like fascism rather that communism

>>136821570
>how many times you going to go on about larping?
As long as you keep posting because frankly I find striking that nerve over and over again hilarious.
>because i believe we need law and order means im pro fascist now?
Not really, I'm just asking if you are pro-fascist because authoritarianism and fascism are usually correlated.
>plenty of countries were drawing up battle plans, you know like germany except germany actually carried out there battle plans
It's almost like Germany was trying to beat the Soviets to the punch because a direct assault on Germany would cause them massive damage, in comparison to invading the Soviets and taking Moscow to cripple them before any invasion could take place. Makes you think don't it?
>face it the soviets had no intention of taking anything past eastern europe and they were willing to negotiate with germany for what they wanted
Not really an argument, unless you consider "YOU'RE WRONG AND I'M RIGHT" to be an argument.

>>136821575
>Too bad reality says otherwise
Yeah.
Who could have possibly imagine thst the people wont just share all their shit voluntaril?

>>136821783
Apparently every communist ever didn't. Which is why strasserism doesn't work, and is why I find shitting on strasserites so hilarious. Same applies to, well, everything else communist really.

>>136821764
any logical reason i state as to why the soviets had no intention of invading germany let alone europe you deny with bullshit. the red army wasnt even ready to mount such an attack when the germans invaded. of course the russians were going to be nervous when their neighbor next door is rapidly expanding and militarizing but in your mind its only the soviets who are the issue and you dont seem to question any the the germans actions, i find it amazing you are against the only possible way germany could have ever been successful in ww2

>>136821575
>>136821702

I guess my point is that being a fascist and saying "i'm going to elect a fascist dictator who will make my dream government a reality" is the same as the communist who elects a central planner to make communism.

They're both extremely risky propositions. No matter what you do, you will eventually get stalin.

>>136822154
>any logical reason i state as to why the soviets had no intention of invading germany let alone europe you deny with bullshit
It's almost like history arguments are won with evidence and sources, not "logical reasoning". No one will take "logical reasoning" as an argument when trying to argue over historical events. I already provided a clear source which directly shows that Stalin had plans and was unable to act on them at the time.
>the red army wasnt even ready to mount such an attack when the germans invaded.
Holy shit, it's almost like that's exactly what I meant when I say "beat the Soviets to the punch"! Almost makes sense doesn't it?
>of course the russians were going to be nervous when their neighbor next door is rapidly expanding and militarizing
So nervous that they wanted to assault their neighbor instead of defending their borders. Right.
>but in your mind its only the soviets who are the issue and you dont seem to question any the the germans actions
Not really, no. You're just retarded if you think that the Soviets were entirely innocent with the invasion.
>i find it amazing you are against the only possible way germany could have ever been successful in ww2
I find it hilarious that you keep pushing the idea that it was the "only way" Germany could have won. Do you know what would have happened it they did that? They would have crushed Britain and then proceed to destroy each other in a massive war that no one wins. Clearly the superior solution.

>>136822511
>No matter what you do, you will eventually get stalin.
The problem with Stalin was his maddening paranoia, his sociopathic ruthlessness, his utter disrespect for religion and also him being a kike plant. The former 2 are an issue with the person itself, the latter two are something that fascism itself is vehemently opposed to. Which is why the big fascist question, "how do you consistently get hitlers and mussolinis into power" is one that a lot of people are trying to answer.

>>136822520
>a plan drawn up by some random soviet general is apparently something that would have definitely happened
>beat the red army to the punch they were never going to throw
>assuming that there would have been no solution besides war once the war with with britian is over

you have given no real evidence that the soviets were actually going to carry out such plans, the russians and germans worked very well together when splitting up poland and they could have continued such cooperation, i do not see any other way germany could have won the war, having a country with inexhaustible man power is a good ally to have, certainly better then italy. in regards to the invasion the soviets were innocent considering they didnt even have adequate border defenses on stalins orders

>>136822760
>Which is why the big fascist question, "how do you consistently get hitlers and mussolinis into power"

You cannot. Sociopaths are masters of deception.
Look at our democracy. It's impossible to predict what the president is going to do as president.
We always find out too late that they were lying about this or that. It's a total crapshoot... and eventually you get snake eyes.

>>136811821
No it hasn't

>>136808946
ANARCHO LIBERTARIAN TRANSSEXUALISM

>>136823073
>a plan drawn up by some random soviet general is apparently something that would have definitely happened
That's not true though. The plan wasn't drawn up by "some random soviet general" at all. It was an official plan that was being readied to be put into action by Stalin himself.
>beat the red army to the punch they were never going to throw
Which is why the force that the Germans fought at Barbarossa was a force designed for an offensive strike. not a defensive one. Good job.
>assuming that there would have been no solution besides war once the war with with britian is over
There would have been no fucking solution. Both of them hated each other to the core. This is as good as saying that God and Satan can just talk things out and be happy go lucky.
You can read all about this shit here, but the fact is that blindly believing that the Soviets dindu nuffin is as good as believing that every last NSDAP member was a saint.
>the russians and germans worked very well together when splitting up poland
Not at all actually. Hitler was royally pissed at Stalin's move to invade Poland 2 weeks after he did even though the pact clearly said that the invasion was supposed to be simultaneous.
> i do not see any other way germany could have won the war
1. Take Moscow
2. Fucking tell Japan to not be retarded and not do Pearl Harbor
3. Destroy Britain after taking Moscow
That easy. The real hurdle is the first one. The failure at Stalingrad sealed their fate. And then the Americans joining the war.
>having a country with inexhaustible man power is a good ally to have
Until they turn that manpower against you that is.
>n regards to the invasion the soviets were innocent considering they didnt even have adequate border defenses on stalins orders
Almost like it was exactly because their army was set up for offense. Makes you think.
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/04/exposing-stalins-plan-to-conquer-europe/

>>136808946
I'm a NEET, so someone's gotta pay for me, so socialism ot is.

>>136813478
No, Whites did all that, and the Internet 2as created by the military, not capitalist ventures.

>>136823093
I've heard some things about Hitler's writings, on how to choose the successor of the Reich. Supposedly the initial system would be a Roman-esque trial that would test the candidate physically and mentally, and the one who did best would be the successor. And eventually with enough time the system could move to Athenian democracy, not the egalitarian garbage we have today. But I still have a lot of research to do on that aspect so I can't really argue on it for now.

This video talks about feeding starving shitskins, this video is cancer, this is not a good argument for socialism.

File: ea6b093f282ae4027f02d69aa918b131.jpg (93KB, 736x923px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 736x923px

>>136823867
NatSoc Germany would eventually become a republic with the SS asristocratic elite class ruling as an oligarchy. That's why it's important to establish the SS, they will be the world's new rulers.

>>136823588
if stalin was planning for an offensive why did he not move his troops to the border or even move his troops at all which he did not until after the war had begun. if he was planning an attack he would have been massing troops on the border already, you are being pessimistic in regards to the war with britain. so the russians staled they still invaded and did things according to plan with poland and the baltic states were paid for. hitler would never have destroyed britain and i feel there is nothing stopping any of his other allies at the time from turning on him at least besides italy. taking moscow would have been a blood bath and just like in the war with napoleon, taking moscow would not have resulted in victory, it seems either way in your view the soviets vast manpower was against them so they were fighting a losing battle from the start then. stalin was making every effort to appease hitler which included the rapid deportation of jews and even replacing the soviet minster of foreign affairs with a non jew to help get negotiations going. stalin never wanted war with germany and was very disappointed about it once he he found out officially that they had invaded

File: 1480275861232.jpg (453KB, 1272x1522px) Image search: [Google]

453KB, 1272x1522px

>>136824833
>if he was planning an attack he would have been massing troops on the border already
Which is why the Germans were met with 7 times the number of tanks than they had when Barbarossa was a go. It's almost like the Russians were attempting a tank assault with fucking 24,000 tanks. Really makes you think.
>you are being pessimistic in regards to the war with britain
As always, the underage resorts to "why can't everyone just be like happy go lucky and friendship and magic and stuff".
>so the russians staled they still invaded and did things according to plan with poland
They did things according the THEIR plan. Not according to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
>hitler would never have destroyed britain
Don't make me laugh, Britain was a fucking joke compared to Germany. That's why France got steamrolled too, both of them were cuckold tier thanks to the League of Nations.
>i feel there is nothing stopping any of his other allies at the time from turning on him
He didn't have any allies aside from Italy and Japan at the time, dumbshit. Italy was too busy being incompetent and the nips were too busy behaving like niggers.
>taking moscow would have been a blood bath
You mean like the rest of the Eastern Front?
>taking moscow would not have resulted in victory
The Soviet generals themselves seem to disagree.
>it seems either way in your view the soviets vast manpower was against them
Not really, the average Soviet footsoldier was conscript tier compared to the average German footsoldier. Also clearly didn't read the source I linked, the Soviet army was built for assault not defense. That was literally all Hitler was counting on to win the war.
>stalin was making every effort to appease hitler
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>which included the rapid deportation of jews
Oh, jews like Lazar Kaganovich? How's Yankel Yurovsky? Great job there fucktard.
>stalin never wanted war with germany
And this is the face of Bezmenovian demoralizatoin folks. Completely brainwashed.

File: 1472290613164.jpg (3MB, 1483x7707px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1483x7707px

>>136824833
>>136825352
>m-muh stalin was an antisemite too!
Pick one retard. This meme is so dead it's deader than your shit thread is.

Oh yeah, and next time you argue, sources or GTFO. I've already provided so many sources it's not even funny. You haven't even proved any of your claims, you've just talked out of your ass.

>>136825352
obviously there is no convincing you i guess you just prefer if the germans lost it seems, you have bought into anti soviet propaganda so well

>>136825859
Alas, the best way to win any argument, is to simply say "no u".

Enjoy bitching about shit you don't even understand fuckface. You'll grow up when you hit 18.

>>136825947
i have given up trying to "win" you tell me to grow up but all you do is resort to petty insults

>>136826183
>i have given up trying to "win"
Because you have no argument lol
>you tell me to grow up but all you do is resort to petty insults
Said the underage who's first words were "LARPER LARPER LARPER LARPER LARPER". I still don't think you know what LARPing is.

>>136826287
i have given plenty of counter arguments, but whatever you say, congrats you "win"

>>136826583
>i have given plenty of counter arguments
You didn't give a single source at all regarding history, and all your arguments regarding ideology were "this is bad because it is bad nono wrong". In fact your thread is so shit and you are so lacking in arguments that I'm pretty much the only person left that's entertaining what amounts to clear underage retardation. Go to reddit if you want to win arguments using mental gymnastics and repeating baseless bullshit.

>>136826757
>underage
>reddit

if you are going to insult people at least come up with some new stuff, im sure you know how google works. i will make sure to google the things you said to double check them as the "evidence" you provided is hardly believable and looks more like stormfront tier bullshit, relish in the moment that you have won an internet argument

>>136827059
>im sure you know how google works
Yes good goyim, jewgle is your greatest ally.
>you said to double check them as the "evidence"
I already posted my source lol
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/04/exposing-stalins-plan-to-conquer-europe/
Apparently you're so fucking stupid that you don't know what a source is.
>and looks more like stormfront tier bullshit,
>STORMFAG STORMFAG FUCKING STORMKEKS REEE REEE REEE
Truly reddit indeed.
>relish in the moment that you have won an internet argument
No, I'm just laughing at how fucking stupid you are. And you want to argue politics when you can't even fucking defend a heavily accepted historical viewpoint? What a sad waste of life you are, no wonder the majority of your posts are about "triggering" people.

>>136827323
>getting this pent up

>>136827523
Alas, the greatest of internet arguments: "ur mad!". Truly one wonders how I "won" against such an intellectual.

>>136827627
not an argument, i just dont understand what you are going on about anymore, you are acting like an aspie

>>136827832
Ironic, how the king of lacking arguments is screaming about people not having an argument.

The argument is long over, this is the aftermath. Me shitting on you while saging your shit thread because I find it entertaining.

>>136827901
yes we established the "argument" as you call it is over, i hardly call what you are doing shitting on me but sage until your hearts content the thread is dead anyway and plenty of people had better things to say then you

>>136828155
>i hardly call what you are doing shitting on me
Sure thing lmao
>he thread is dead anyway
I wonder why lol
>and plenty of people had better things to say then you
Oh yes, it's only a good thing if it supports your /r/the_donald tier worldview. Good job.

>>136828301
>everyone who i dont agree with is from reddit or leftypol

>>136828488
No, not everyone. Just you.

>>136828607
>i dont agree with his opinion so he must be from leftypol or reddit

File: ! ! ! ''Zhukov proposal'' from 1941.gif (222KB, 1174x1500px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 1174x1500px

>>136814594
You do realise neith Stalin or Hitler wanted to work together. They did try in 1936 and it was great, but their both autistic ambitions failed them.

There is no doubt Stalin wanted to attack Germany and was getting prepared for it, maybe not in 1941 but definitely somewhere in 1942-43...
His idea was that Reich and capitalist powers would drain each other and then he would easily swept through weak europe. Even tho Stalin wasn't true international commie kike like Trotsky and Lenin, he still had some heart for spreading the revolution.
The Hitler's attack was literally smart preemptive attack that worked for awhile but military blunders of Hitler fucked him over just like Stalins own blunders.

The idea that Stalin Soviets and Hitlers Reich would work together is beutiful, but ambitions and autism of both man ruined it, and in the end rich capitalist kikes won.

>>136828778
No, it only applies to you, primarily because your typing style is retarded, your logic is retarded and your arguments are godawful.

>>136828862
wow thats really something

>>136828853
you are right more or less, but i feel like it was hitler that was really holding back the relationship

>>136828998
>wow thats really something
Coming from the guy who thinks that "haha you're a larper this flag triggers you" that's awfully ironic.
>i feel like it was hitler that was really holding back the relationship
Which is why 2 people have posted the exact same soviet battle plan and said the exact same shit that proves that Stalin was planning to invade Germany long before the invasion of Poland. Good work.

>>136829220
yeah but he has the name of the general who made the plan which means a lot more then you may think and he is not dismissive of how beneficial an alliance between the 2 would be and hes not acting like an aspie

File: ! ! ! ! ! Most Dangerous Man in the Universe ''The Devil'' Joseph-Stalin-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpg (16KB, 300x400px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 300x400px

>>136828998
Your right. Hitler always had his dream about destroying communism which he saw in Stalin's USSR and expanding and he always had a sympathy to anglos.
But it was also Stalin hypocrisy on seeing fascists as a true enemy ever since 1936.

You can even see it in Soviet propaganda of Winter War where finns were perceived as fascist.

Neither of them wanted to work fully together.

>>136829438
>yeah but he has the name of the general who made the plan which means a lot more then you may think
No, I just do not care at all about the general or his name. The point was that a Soviet plan existed and that Stalin was long ago planning to put it into action.
> and he is not dismissive of how beneficial an alliance between the 2 would be and hes not acting like an aspie
>B-BUT HE'S CIRCLEJERKING WITH ME
This is the most reddit post I've ever seen on this site.

>>136829548
the 2 had a big propaganda shit war but during negations for poland and the baltics the use of the word fascist as an insult was not longer allowed

>reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit

big shocker both sides had plans of preemptive strikes against each other, it may not matter who the general is to you but it does to me because it shows how serious the plan was in actuality

>>136829636>>136829819

>>136829819
>big shocker both sides had plans of preemptive strikes against each other
No shit. But trying to say "OH STALIN WANTED TO BE BUDDY FRIENDS AND HITLER WAS A BIG MEANIE" is middle school tier. You know, what you actually are.

>>136808946
>Capitalism has existed far before gommunism
>Lol look at all these deaths
>Muh not real gommunism
Fuck off larping fascist

>>136830042
wanting to avoid war is not a bad thing

>>136830188
>wanting to avoid war is not a bad thing
Too bad fucking neither side was trying to avoid war, retard. Both wanted each other six feet deep in the ground.

File: ! ! ! ''Northern variant'' from 1940.gif (188KB, 1150x1500px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 1150x1500px

>>136829438
>>136829819
there were actually many types of plans not even Zhukov ones.
here are two which were made in 1940.

File: ! ! ! ''Southern variant'' from 1940.gif (170KB, 1157x1500px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 1157x1500px

>>136830357

>>136830253
the soviets did want to avoid war with germany though but you are the pseudo intellectual

>>136830383
>>136830357
do you have any info on what stalins thoughts were on these plans i know during these times stalin was very dismissive of his generals especially when it came to germany

>>136830468
>the soviets did want to avoid war with germany though
Which is why someone is currently dumping Soviet battle plans into this thread. This line of logic is absolutely sound and totally not the kind of shit a brainwashed marxist would say.
>you are the pseudo intellectual
Oh god the horror, a 13 year old just said a meanie word to me. Better report it to the cyber police.

File: absolutely subversive.jpg (11KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 225x225px

>>136813503
>>136813425
>>136813255
>>136813200
>>136813175
>>136813143
>>136813053
I read these as inventions created DESPITE being under a socialist regime. Even looking at these lists favorably do you think they stack up to even an iota of what the free market has enabled.

>>136830601
you take these things so literally yet you have no idea what stalins thoughts were on them, im sure hitlers generals drew up hundreds of battle plans and never carried them out, it is ironic you continue to call me underage when you are acting possibly the most childish i have ever seen someone act on this board

>>136830468
Don't really. They very highly declassified and secret.
Just that there were many of them even right after partition in 1939, but that most of them were abandoned and dropped.
These three were were most accepted ones and Zhukov's was predominantly most popular one since he wanted to participate in both south and northern fronts.

But it's know that Stalin at those times was very out of touched from war planning and made huge blunders because of it. (just like hitler btw).

>>136820052
why not?
Aren't you for diversity open borders, unity of the worldwide work force. Well if Israel goes down you can kiss your visions goodbye because literally Hitler will take over again.

>>136831142
>you take these things so literally yet you have no idea what stalins thoughts were on them
Clearly the fact that he approved of them enough to start gearing up his army for an assault makes it obvious what he thought of them.
>im sure hitlers generals drew up hundreds of battle plans and never carried them out
Damn that's a great source. You sure showed me there.
>it is ironic you continue to call me underage when you are acting possibly the most childish i have ever seen someone act on this board
Once again, no u! When you have no argument, no u! Want to have the last say? No u! The greatest weapon a retard could have? No u!

>>136831389
what evidence is there of any mobilization? it is merely a plan, and the anon who just posted them said they were dropped. cant argue you against you, no doubt way to smart for the likes of me

>>136831160
what do you think the likelihood of the soviets attacking first was? i see it as highly unlikely as the soviets still needed a few more years of preparing before actually considering a serious offensive if that was indeed on stalins mind

>>136831802
>what evidence is there of any mobilization?
Do I seriously have to post the same fucking source the third time again? For fuck's sake, Stalin had 24,000 fucking tanks at Barbarossa. What the fuck would you need 24,000 tanks for other than for assault? Common fucking sense you retard.
>and the anon who just posted them said they were dropped
Because they were invaded before they could use them. Makes you think.

>>136831985
24000 tanks vs 150 german divisions, wow some troop mobilization on the soviet part, you dont start an offensive with just tanks you need infantry, where are all the infantrymen? you need quite a large amount of men to back up that amount of tanks, 24,000 is hardly offensive worthy by soviet standards, anon said these plans were made 39-40 way before the invasion. you know jack shit about military planning

File: image.jpg (44KB, 814x320px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 814x320px

>>136808946

>>136831802
Maybe in 1942.
Stalin was sending shit tons of offensive equepment on the border and little of deffensive ones. (Huge amount of offensive equepement was found in first weeks when Barbarosa started), (It's even funny how much lacking of basic defensive equipment like mines or barber wire were soviets were off in first month of invasion.)
The high command was still weak after the purge and was full of yesmans seeing how it was in Winter War, but they were developing plans and tactics for offensive doctrines.
So it's absurd to think that Stalin would have attacked Axis the same year as Hitler did IRL.

If everything went all according to their plans and Hitler was still beating british and getting more and more exhausted, Stalin would have found some opportunistic great time to strike in 1942-1943.

>>136832570
>24000 tanks vs 150 german divisions, wow some troop mobilization on the soviet part
Versus the 3,350 tanks of the Germans? Yeah, that sort of is significant, when you have 7 times more offensive firepower than the opponent that's assaulting you.
>you dont start an offensive with just tanks you need infantry,
It's almost like that wasn't the plan of Stalin. You idiot. Tank assaults are a fucking thing. Also failing to recognize that there was a good reason that Stalin hadn't seized the initiative YET.
>24,000 is hardly offensive worthy by soviet standards
Yeah, because you totally need 24,000 tanks to fucking defend a shitty border.
>anon said these plans were made 39-40 way before the invasion
Which proves my point that the Soviet invasion plans were underway long before Poland. You retard.

>>136832995
if you are going to start an offensive you just dont mass all those tanks in one area you have to spread them out and what the fuck is the point of sending in tanks with no troops to defend them or to actually capture any territory? the tanks would be spread think after deploying them completely across a line and would NEED infantry support. a tank assault with no infantry, air support or artillery is destined for failure, 24000 cannot beat over 3 million german soldiers as these were soviet light tanks as well considering the year of the plan. and there is still no real confirmation that the soviets were actually going to attack as well as there was far more evidence that the germans were the ones doing so

>>136832770
what type of equipment are we talking?

>>136833547
>if you are going to start an offensive you just dont mass all those tanks in one area you have to spread them out
Except that nothing implies they were all in one area. Not hard for someone to get word of the invasion and move their units in to assist.
> what the fuck is the point of sending in tanks with no troops to defend them or to actually capture any territory?
Again, failing to recognize that there was a good reason that Stalin hadn't seized the initiative yet.
>air support
Oh boy, I could go on for ages on soviet air support.
>Before the war, Soviet DB-3f and SB bombers as well as the TB-1 and TB-3 bombers (of which Stalin had about a thousand had been modified to carry airborne troops as well as bomb loads. By mid-1941 the Soviet military had trained hundreds of thousands of paratroopers (Suvorov says almost a million) for the planned attack against Germany and the West. These airborne troops were to be deployed and dropped behind enemy lines in several waves, each wave consisting of five airborne assault corps (VDKs), each corps consisting of 10,419 men, staff and service personnel, an artillery division, and a separate tank battalion (50 tanks). Suvorov lists the commanding officers and home bases of the first two waves or ten corps. The second and third wave corps included troops who spoke French and Spanish.

Because the German attack prevented these highly trained troops from being used as originally planned, Stalin converted them to “guards divisions,” which he used as reserves and “fire brigades” in emergency situations, much as Hitler often deployed Waffen SS forces.
From the source which I repeatedly link but you refuse to read, likely out of willful ignorance.
>24000 cannot beat over 3 million german soldiers as these were soviet light tanks as well considering the year of the plan
Again, failing to recognize that there was a good reason that Stalin hadn't seized the initiative yet.
pt 1/2

>>136814898
Who gives a fuck. The 75% are shitskins who are poor not because capitalism but because they're subhuman shitskins with inferior intelligence

>>136833547
>>136833859
>and there is still no real confirmation that the soviets were actually going to attack
How many times do I have to repeat the fact that they have absurd numbers of tanks for a defense, absolutely no equipment set up to defend their borders and had ridiculous amounts of aircraft tech and paratroopers which obviously would be useless in a defensive scenario? Are you just that fucking stupid?
>as well as there was far more evidence that the germans were the ones doing so
Jesus christ, you really are a double digit IQ retard. If anyone wants proof that Bezmenovian demoralization is true then this thread is more than enough proof.

>>136834021
i hear you talking about soviet numbers but how many germans were being moved to the border, going SEE LOOK TANKS THEY ARE GOING TO ATTACK is not enough proof for me

>>136834481
>i hear you talking about soviet numbers but how many germans were being moved to the border
But that's fucking irrelevant because we already know the Germans were going to attack. The problem here is your retarded marxist brain refuses to admit that the Soviets had battle plans and wanted to assault before the Germans did.
>going SEE LOOK TANKS THEY ARE GOING TO ATTACK
How about fucking 1 million paratroopers which were made useless thanks to the German assault then, huh? Paratroopers, real fucking useful for defending those Soviet borders amirite?

>>136834654
Well Russia does have a lot of parts of the border that isn't easily accessible by road

Regardless Hitler should have let Stalin start the attack so he could try and get Britain on his side

>>136835761
Stalin's attack would have ruined Germany pretty quickly. I don't think that would have been a good idea, especially with how brutish the Red Army troopers themselves were. See: the Rape of Berlin. Also Churchill would never have sided with Hitler, Churchill fucking hated Hitler and hated Germany for what he saw as breaking the Treaty of Versailles by making Germany an economy superpower.

>>136835938
>he acts like germans didnt rape the russian women, only difference was the russians didnt kill the women after

>>136836874
>>he acts like germans didnt rape the russian women
You know that rape was punishable by death right?
Also the Germans' rape was nowhere near as widespread and bad as Berlin. Soviet apologists are the fucking worst.

>>136836975
rape was punishable by death for the soviets to, both armies have similarities, the offficers didnt care. russians were taking there revenge for the savagery the germans showed them. germans were just as bad and were paid back in full

File: 1496153324362.jpg (268KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 1024x768px

>>136837143
>rape was punishable by death for the soviets to
LMAO
Rape was RECOMMENDED by the officers you dumbshit.
>russians were taking there revenge for the savagery the germans showed them
Sure thing lol, that's why they executed children for naively fighting for the Germans. Such great dudes, those Soviets.
>germans were just as bad and were paid back in full
Hilarious how you love to talk out of your ass with 0 sources. Truly a master historian right here.

>>136837396
>he thinks that german officers didnt recommend rape
>naively this kids were brainwashed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht

rape is a wartime past time as it is and every country participated in rape from the allies to the axies. do you think that the germans were a bunch of kind men handing out candy and food? russian lives meant nothing to the germans, see the siege of leningrad for example, the germans were not moral by any regard

>>136837943
>kikepedia
Nice source, post the "white genocide" page next. Or the "criticisms of holocaust denial" page next, since you clearly love kike propaganda up your asshole so much.
>rape is a wartime past time as it is and every country participated in rape from the allies to the axies
No shit, the argument here is that the Soviets were worse rapewise than the Germans. No one is saying that not a single woman was raped by a German.
>russian lives meant nothing to the germans, see the siege of leningrad for example, the germans were not moral by any regard
Which is why Ukraine was allowed to fight with and for the Germans. Which is why hundreds were executed for fighting for the Germans. Which is why to this day we have photos of the NKVD executing citizens passed off as Germans executing citizens. Good job.

Soviet apologists really are dense fucking retards.

>>136838137
>sorry but your source isnt from my exclusive list sources
>soviet apologiests

you are right germans dindu nuffin dont mind all the eastern ss legions defecting back to the soviets thats just a meme, you really are one delusional person, both sides committed war crimes both just as bad quit acting like the germans did no wrong, i know the russians did. i dont care what they did to jews and gypsys but i care what they did to russia and russians where my grandparents came from

File: textgram_1392062780.png (298KB, 612x612px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 612x612px

The last time Germany rounded-up and expelled Jews...it experienced the biggest economic boom in history.

Communism is a Jewish ideology and all leftists need to be thrown from helicopters

Libertarianism is a Jewish ideology too, at least modern form. Even more so than communism.

National Socialism fucks over the bourgeois and feeds the people.

Bolshevism fucks over the worker and starves the people (the neo bourgeois it forms remains well fed tho)

Socialism is literally a tool of slavery for the lower class.

>>136838440
>>sorry but your source isnt from my exclusive list sources
What? It's a well known fact that Wikipedia is a garbage tier source. Even fucking highschools don't allow students to cite Wikipedia as a source, although you're still in middle school so not being aware of that is unsurprising.
>both sides committed war crimes
Sure, that's a well known fact
>both just as bad
lol, the Germans didn't spend months pillaging and raping the citizens of Moscow. They didn't do that to Paris either. Your slavic subhumans behaving like niggers are unrelated to the germans in every way.
>i dont care what they did to jews and gypsys
Deported them?
>but i care what they did to russia and russians where my grandparents came from
Ah, you're a slavic subhuman yourself. Explains a lot actually, not limited to the shitty english and the subhuman tier logic skills.