>tfw nobody every attacks capitalism from the right

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>>136523567
There's nothing to attack.

>>136523567
Yes, capitalism is shit

>>136523567

Capitalism is the best we have. The only thing to attack is people fucking it up through government intervention abuse and monopoly.

>>136523824
No it's not, jewish shit. National Socialism is the best.

>>136523567
What do you consider Right and Left?

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>>136523886

>Collectivism

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>>136523886
>the system responsible for the creation of Israel and half of Europe being oppressed by communism for decades is "the best"

>>136523674
>>136524097
ancaps are retarded

Any collectivism wont work on large scale.Humans dont work in such a system we have figured this out through trial. Communism socialism anything. Capitalism is the best system we know of for humans right now.

>>136524575
Nations/countries are collectives and work out just fine.

"Capitalism" doesn't mean that much of anything by itself. It is always regulated in some ways. If not formally via a government, then covertly through regional elites, or a shadowy global elite, or through a nation's culture, etc.
Some like the ideas of unregulated capitalism because the government is absolute shit at regulating it right now. It's all either concessions to large corporations or actively trying to encourage outsourcing for globalization purposes. i.e., they're not even trying to make things better for the common people.
But AnCap is absurd. If left to itself, capitalism will eventually concentrate all of the wealth in the hands of a few capital owners and wages will lower to subsistance level (if even that).
Workers must be allowed to build up capital. Workers must have *some* bargaining people. A lot less regulations would be necessary if there was an actual demand for labor. Right now there's a *huge* labor surplus and it's engineered via mass immigration and globalization. Capitalists adjust the supply of labor dynamically to make sure workers never have any time to adapt and could start getting some bargaining power. There isn't much that can be done to make things better when workers are always in competition with an infinite potential supply of workers willing to accept slave conditions.

Considering the state of the world, the right should not be giving a fuck about economics. 'Perfect' systems of governance and economics don't matter when the whole world is being overrun by brown hordes. We need to be focusing on race, and only race, for the foreseeable future. And maybe address our internal issues of sexual deviancy and female rebellion. But I only consider those relevant at the moment because they weaken us against the brown army at our gate.

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>>136523886
>>136523741

>His IQ isn't high enough to understand the Economic Calculation Problem

>>136524736

With capitalism.

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>>136525119

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>>136523674
>>136524004
Communism and capitalism are both tools of (((internationalism))) to destroy the nation state and cultural identity

>>136525119
>implying there would be economy under communism
Nice strawman

>>136523567
Capitalism is shit

>>136525325

Capitalism doesn't require any such thing. Anything can be made a tool of if no one stops them.

because capitalism helps whites while any form of economic collectivism would only help dindus and spics.

Sorry, I'd support more welfare if we could have a conservative society but unfortunately we've become far too degenerate and the free market is the only way in which those degenerates will be punished.

>>136523674
Any of that wealth "trickle" down to ya yet, douchebag?

>>136525135
That's stupid, economic systems are not all there is to the idea of left/right.

>>136525448

It has for everyone ionvolved. We all know what the greatest country to ever grace the Earth is.

>>136523567
Capitalism is natural order, collectivism deviates from the natural order and becomes a disaster every time.

>>136525508

This thread is about an economic system.

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>>136523567
nigga yes we do how new are you

>>136525525
The right of people to trade does not mean the right to dominate resources and workers.

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>>136523674
>>136523824
Fpwp

>>136525690
Trading legal, employment of people with no collective bargaining of workers in collective endeavors, illegal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k1zJV0DSvc capitalism is the best

>>136525550
The thread mentions the idea of Right and seems to imply that capitalism can be critiqued by people ideologically on the Right. What then, at least to the OP, constitutes the Right philosophically? It's important to get the definition/idea out of the way so that further conclusions can be drawn.
>>136525525
I'd argue that collectivism is much more 'natural' and inherent to humans than capitalism is.

>>136525690

Which is why collectivism does not work. Taking the power and choice out of the hands of the people is immoral and ultimately causes the destruction of that society. With the government becoming something terrible and tyrannical in its attempts to maintain control.

>>136525525
flinging shit and living in caves is "natural order"
Without the might of the government I would make you my property and fuck you in the ass

>>136525690
What domination? That sounds more like collectivism

>>136525809
>I'd argue that collectivism is much more 'natural' and inherent to humans than capitalism is.

For small groups of less than 250 people who are loyal to each other. Anything larger it goes to shit.

Capitalism allows people the freedom to choose. Something collectivism cannot allow. Nothing can be centrally managed without control.

>>136525809
Collectivist countries have always been failures, the only prosperity has come out of countries with private property.

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>>136523567
Because Capitalism IS right wing. How Nationalist (((Socialists))) became the face of the far right just goes to show how abhorrently ignorant the world is.

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>>136525844
>Taking the power and choice out of the hands of the people is immoral and ultimately causes the destruction of that society
Ok good then let's put the power back into the hands of the workers.

>>136525809
A simple way to delineate the Right from the Left is to say the Right recognizes inequality as a good thing, and seeks to preserve hierarchy. The Left believes in the opposite.

>>136526050

Nothing else is available to govern economic activity. Capitalism is the best we have. If we have a lack of spirit then renew it. Capitalism doesn't care if you do. Our current decay is the result of people choosing it. And pretty soon theyll get enough of a slap in the face to fix shit. Hopefully.

That cycle of good times > weak men > bad times > strong men >.... is a real thing.

>>136525985
Then your shifting the goalposts/definition, since in a natural state, humans didn't live in groups that large and basically had a form of primitive communism/socialism.
> Capitalism allows people the freedom to choose. Something collectivism cannot allow.
There are really only degrees of freedom, some rather collectivist cultures like Japan still have quite a bit of personal freedom. Also there isn't really any reason to believe that freedom is necessarily an end in and of itself, some people may value things like group belonging more than it.

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>>136525448
Yes.

>>136525865
I'm sure you would, I'm talking about natural order in differences in ability between humans, collectivism acts against nature by supporting the weak and stupid and not allowing people to have freedom with their own personal property.

>>136523567
I'm lefty on all sorts of issues, but since I'm against immigration and diversity... I'm far-right. Capitalism should also be attacked from the right. Sucks Hitler took what could have been a great thing, National Socialism. Except the Nazi's because fascist instead of national socialist.

>>136525787
>one man profits off the collective work of thousands
>collectivism is bad!

>>136526107

And who will make the decisions? You going to join anti-fa and pretend there does not have to be a leader? The top image holds 4 people who choose to be there. The bottom one shows 4 people who do not choose to be there and the person in charge is else where being a dictator.

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>>136526091
>Because Capitalism IS right wing
Tell the monarchs that

>>136526050
Just fancy words, no substance in terms of economics or reality.

>>136526234
There is nothing benificial about individualism.

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Until we proclaimed our doctrine, in front of us, capitalist individualism and communist collectivism rose triumphal, the shadow of their imperial wings extending in every path open to mankind… This way, Justicialism was born, under the supreme aspiration of a high ideal. The Justicialism, created by us and for our descendants, as a third ideological position aimed to liberate us from capitalism without making us fall into the oppressing claws of collectivism.

>>136525417
>>136525417
Capitalism without regulation, yet libertarians and ancaps regard any sort of regulation as statism, when in fact it protects workers. But hey, who cares about the goys working as long as schlomo get's his shekels.

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>>136526065
> Private property is the only thing determining collectivism
Why are you so obtuse on this subject? The idea of collectivism is very broad and extends to more than just economics.
https://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html
http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSContents.jsp?CMSID=Findings

>>136526337
Decisions are made among the workers because they have the best interests at heart, not the capitalists who would fire all the workers and move the factory to the third world at the drop of a top hat.

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>>136525280

Last paragraph of ECitSC

>The knowledge of the fact that rational economic activity is impossible in a socialist commonwealth cannot, of course, be used as an argument either for or against social-ism. Whoever is prepared himself to enter upon socialism on ethical grounds on the supposition that the provision of goods of a lower order for human beings under a system of common ownership of the means of production is diminished, or whoever is guided by ascetic ideals in his desire for socialism, will not allow himself to be influenced in his endeavors by what we have said. Still less will those “culture” socialists be deterred who, like Muckle, expect from socialism primarily “the dissolution of the most frightful of all barbarisms—capitalist rationality.” But he who expects a rational economic system from socialism will be forced to re-examine his views

>>136526234
>natural state

Natural state changes anon. Technology specifically communication has made our groups larger. The development of culture has allowed us to change much faster then before.

>>136526234
>Also there isn't really any reason to believe that freedom is necessary

Its the first necessity. Tyranny is the result otherwise. And violence when humans inevitably rebel against it. In the end someone has to be in charge. Without freedom that person is a ruler rather than a servant.

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>>136526441
This

>>136526261
Humans are a natural combination of collectivism and individualism. We enjoy personal freedoms and rights yet alos have strong identities as people within a group. Denying the existence of groups and working on a pure individualistic nature is just as against human nature as pure collectivism

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We must bide our time and train in the shadows for the moment to strike my fellow mystic

>>136523567
Attacking Capitalism in earnest requires defining it, and nobody wants to do that because it requires a real understanding of various economic theories. Then when you define Capitalism you have to realize that the system we see doesn't fit the definition, or the definition is so vague that its ambiguity could fit anything.

Certainly there is no issue with individuals having the capacity to spend and purchase of their own free will. Like wise there is no issue with them owning businesses to generate consumer products and revenue. The concept of currency is greater than any simple economic system because its a precept for an action outside of these ideologies, something Marx wasn't smart enough to fully comprehend. The issue with Capitalism is not spending or purchasing, but financing. Taking on a debt and promising to return yet to be produced wealth allowed civilization to grow at an accelerated rate, but it also created a situation in which money as a whole lost its fundamental value. Banks stopped dealing in coin and became institutions which held domain over the idea of coin. The immaterial has far greater value than the physical material. We artificially control interest rates for a paper backed by nothing.

Destroy the private banks. Return the power of coinage to the people. Each state can have its own bank, and people can freely do business with them across state lines. Each citizen should own shares in the bank of their state. Equity banking is the white man's system of ethical financing. There is no value without surety.

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>>136526441
>when in fact it protects workers
Regulation is what has allowed so many businesses to form oligarchies and abuse their position. The regulations that "protect" workers are practically written by the corporations to protect their businesses.

>>136526482
> Using market economies with private property as examples

>>136526583
>our group larger
How many names do you know?
30 50 real life friends?

>>136526563
I think you missed the point entirely.

>>136523886
National Socialism still incorporated Capitalism into it's system. It just also incorporated Socialist policies that supported the German people be their best.

>>136526733
Maybe 10 or 20?

>>136526539

The workers will always develop a leader anon. And someone else will come along to lead that.

Worker cooperatives are not competitive. They will guarantee less efficient arrangements lowering the quality of life for everyone until a more efficient system comes along to wipe them out.

as I said this idea that you can leave the hierarchy behind is naive and honestly purposely ignorant of reality. You are ignoring human nature while capitalism takes it into account and uses it as the engine of progress.

Progress that has shape our century moving us forward faster then ever before.

>>136526583
>Also there isn't really any reason to believe that freedom is necessary
>Reading comprehension
If you look closely you'll realize that isn't what I said.
>>136526678
> Still being obtuse about what collectivism is and how there's more to the world than economics

>>136526620
I don't have problem with people forming associations in a peaceful way, but a state enforced collectivism is wrong in my opinion.

>>136526939
>If you look closely you'll realize that isn't what I said.

Freedom is the first necessity. everything else is built off of that. If you want a tighter group build one. Capitalism doesn't care and will not stop you. Building your own community is an American tradition.

>>136526939
Economy is simply trading what people want ro get what you want, there is nothing true about economy, pfoblem cones when people have claimed resources thus oprressing another.

>>136523567
RON PAUL 2012

>>136527158
your getting rope kid

>>136526883
Maybe but the point is that the leader is also a worker, not some shadowy figure ruling at the top of a skyscraper. Anyway, it's against the workers interests to remove their democratic process. And actually worker coops would be even more competitive because workers have more control over the factory instead of following commands like lapdogs. They'll be competing against other factories. Right now in capitalism, labor is being outsourced and the quality of products capitalism produces are terrible. Quality is not rewarded or encouraged under capitalism, only quantity.

>>136527154

What do you mean claim resources? If I own land people should pay me to use it. That is not oppression. Whoever wants it the most will pay the most. The best way to determine who can get the greatest value from it.

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>>136526812

You did actually. It doesn't fucking matter what your ideals are. You will be out-competed by capitalism due to its material superiority. Capitalism or more generally, commercial dynamics will persist because the state is increasingly incapable of understanding the economic complexities it manages. So there is nothing sublime in persisting to impede what is not necessarily a malignant force.

Your ideals are shown to be non-transcendent by the demonstration that they are incompetent.

>>136526539
>Decisions are made among the workers because they have the best interests at heart

Why do communists always speak theoretically when they try to sugar coat their party? How come they don't have any real examples from history of communism working and the economy growing basically without enslavement of their own people?

>>136526939
Ok so your "collectivist" societies still need market economies and private property to function

>>136524004
Collectivism that allows for security of property while maintaining that that right is coupled with the duty to use property to expand and better the nation is by far superior. Cooperation coupled with inherent shared interests (i.e. genetic interests) BTFOs worship of big piles of money.

>>136527294

If it isnt quality someone will come along and sell a quality product instead. How is quality not rewarded? Or are you ignoring quality/price? Quality isnt worth it if the cost grows too much anon. In the end the product wins that people choose.

And no the factory will not make the choices. Eventually the guy who knows what he is doing moves on or dies and the central management need to run shit. You are not making the boss a worker you are moving the boss into the government. And the boss cant work they actually have something to do and they will not have time to be both. The people who lead great companies dont spend time sitting on their asses. They work probably more hours than the workers.

Collectivism does not put power int he hands of the workers it puts it in the government.

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>capitalism emerges a few centuries ago
>IT'S NATURE!!1

>>136527376
>How come they don't have any real examples from history of communism working and the economy growing basically without enslavement of their own people?
Because you're not looking :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIddCEBCKHQ

>>136527327
Capitalism is a malignant force due to it being a driving factor in the materialism and shallowness of the modern world. Its material superiority is irrelevant

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>>136527543

>worship of big piles of money.

You know this concept is completely divorced from reality of capitalism, right?

Also, you are definitely not describing socialism and so you are confused.

You are after absolute monarchism with a regulated market economy. That is not socialism because socialism is defined as the abolition of all markets and money and property.

>>136527320
If there is no alternative for another to obtain his own own there is a problem and the claim would be oppressobg otgers on ownership of others besides tgemselves, if there is only one plot of land, there is no reason soneone should have a claim on it all, it should be split for others ownership, there is no reason why one person should own all land abd resources when he didnt create it, ownership is respected when it usnt impeding another from the same resource elsewhere.

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>>136527702
Am I the only one who feels like capitalism is unnatural and foreign.

>>136527543
>Collectivism that allows for security of property while maintaining that that right is coupled with the duty to use property to expand and better the nation is by far superior.

who determines the best use of property anon? Because the reason capitalism is superior is that no human can make the best decision all the time. Which is why the market wins out. Someone makes better decisions they replace the old through market decisions. The decisions themselves are exposed to competition. Unlike collectivism. Which is why all countries who adopt it crash economically and turn into dictatorships as the government does what is empowered to do. Control things. The moment people do not want to do what they are told the government has to get guns out.

>>136527702

It depends on nature. Unlike collectivism.

>>136527478
Markets are simply people trading and determining what is in demand for the people, I fail to see how markets rationalize monopolization of resources.

>>136527768

You are thinking of human nature anon. Capitalism did not invent want.

>>136523741
You'd be begging for half a cup of rice every day if it wasn't for capitalism you fag

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>>136526107

>>136527880
Capitalism is defined as voluntary human interaction for mutual benefit. That is literally all Capitalism is.

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>>136523886
Yes lets all pool our resources together for the military and then all get slaughtered in the end good idea leaf

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>>136527768

Capitalism is not governance. It reflects the governance we have, which is collective sovereignty, which is communism, which is the root of the decline.

Markets are a neutral force on the whole. You're thinking is clouded by Marxism's economic materialism ironically.

>>136527854

You need to stop fucking up with the keyboard. Also natural monopolies exist because we cant do anything about it. And non natural ones should not exist. Blame democracy for that. And more honestly the people who ignore their responsibilities to shit on politicians who fuck things up.

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Evola himself gave up after WWII. With the NWO and its consequences at the door, the end of this last cycle seems only a matter of time.
Your mission should be to survive this and keep tradition alive until the next reboot.

>>136527986
>soneone has skills highly in need and obtaibs lots from people
This does affect anyone else
>soneone owns resources
Depending if the resources are impeding the obtainment of such resource elsewhere if it doesnt impede others from their own resources it is not affecting another, if it does then it is out of personal will.

>>136528104

For monarchy to turn to hell one man must make bad choices. for Democracy to turn to hell the majority must make bad choices.

And then the majority can turn it around while the monarchy has to make things worse just to hold onto power. Into a shit spiral that ends in rebellion.

>>136528000
Very true, desire is inherent in man. However Capitalism certainly enables indulgence, and in taking over society has clouded over the things that are truly important.

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>>136528039
Two can play at that game

>>136528094
No that is trade and has existed through history. Capitalism is where a capitalist owns the means of production. Socialism is worker controlled means of production.

>>136528264
Doesnt affect*

>>136528374

Capitalism simply uses human want as a power source. And the results speak for themselves. If we have lost something along the way its because humans chose to. And we can always bring it back because we still have the choice unlike under collectivism.

Everyone who plays this shit up likes to ignore the first simple fact. Capitalism is the people making their own choices. And collectivism is their choice being taken away.

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>>136528307

Read:

https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Liberty%20or%20Equality%20The%20Challenge%20of%20Our%20Time_4.pdf

Also read Hoppe

>>136528021
yeah, like these 2 billions under misery line in capitalist nations?

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>>136528039
That guy on in the "fascism" picture is actually a capitalist.

>>136528582

The answer is Liberty. Everything else is tyranny. You cannot take the choice out of peoples hands without making it worse. That is the cornerstone.

>>136527986
Multipile corporations owns the oilsands in Alberta, and people there make shit tons of money so, I don't see the problem with ownership of resources if they are going to efficiently run it.

>>136528376
are all commies cheerypickers?

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>>136528659
Holy shit btfo

>>136528376
Communism isnt granting anyone their own productions, it is simply about destroying private property of the people thus enslaving them.

>>136528708

That anon just wants to steal shit and pretend that is not what he is doing.

>>136528775
They have to be to avoid all the examples we have of collectivism being implemented and then turning into a shit heap as bad as any in history and worse than most.

>>136528802
>>136528659

How many are under the misery line in Venezuela right now? why are people still fleeing Cuba for the united states? go look at what your theories look like in real life.

>>136528104
I went over your previous posts and I think I may have misunderstood your points. To be clear what do you define as Capitalism.

>>136528307
no. fuck off shill

monarchies are overthrown by the masses (the majority) from time to time. and democracies can be ruined by a single person just look at brazil. some crazy bitch rekt the budget because the olympics were to be held in brazil and tried to lie and cover up the massive debt incurred during building of the stadium

>>136523567

neoliberalism is for speculator and faggots go, fashy or go home

>>136529024

So the market gave her that choice? Or was it the government? Mean while you want more power in the hands of the government? The government is a necessary evil but it should be as local and weak as possible to do what it needs to do.

And over throwing monarchies or collectivist governments from time to time costs a historical amount of lives. Having a company fail and be replaced does not.

>>136528708
It allows the domination of a feudal caste, resources of the land outside of personal growth such as farming earned but extraction of resources belongs to the state, and anyone saying otherwise has no legitinate arguments, "we cant take the Oil! This is madness!" If you look at it from a logical standpoint you would see how rediculous it is for someone to think they have a right to earth resources to take and then sell for their personal profits, I would say get a job.

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>>136528582
>>136528582

>if an Ancap state were invaded the super awesome defense corps would hire ninja assassins to kill the enemy government!

I like hoppe but c'mon pham

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>>136529012
>How many are under the misery line in Venezuela right now?
Oil prices crash, capitalist economy market crashes with it along with all the social policies. This is why you get rid of capitalism completely.

>why are people still fleeing Cuba for the united states?
People all over the world are actually fleeing to Cuba for the free medical education they offer. Doing surprisingly well despite being sanctioned by the USA for 50 years and no USSR to trade with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptFqmKlSHPQ

>go look at what your theories look like in real life.
Very successful actually, look at the video I posted above in this thread. The only problem is it's difficult for a fledgling socialist state to survive among capitalist nations who see the system as a threat.

Any other questions/comments/concerns?

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>>136523886
>Socialism is the best.

leafs, everyone. holy shit. keynesians, socialists, communists, feminists, leftists, and all their race mixing garbage needs to die.

>>136529405
Man you guys are dumb.

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>>136529405
>This is why you get rid of capitalism completely.
Because that worked out well for North Korea...

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>>136526828

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>>136529726

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>>136529480
I don't see the Great Depression up there. Remember, Keynesian economics was a response to the failures of capitalism before it during the Great Depression. The New Deal was a response to try to kick start the dying economy. Similar to how Obama's Stimulus package was a response to the 2008 market crash.

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>>136529751

Us Trads are the few and brave among the materialist hoards

>>136529024
shill detected

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>>136529755
>I don't see the Great Depression up there.
That's because the great depression was deflationary. How do you not know this?

Keynesian economics are not a response to the failures of capitalism. Keynesian theory was a masonically crafted ideology to subvert small banks and centralize power. Also its quite fun if you don't have to work to buy your child sex slaves and adrenochrome down to the local synagogue or mason's lodge - you just print up the money.

>>136523567
>>136525325
Here's a huge redpill:
The Coldwar was a test to see which side could more efficiently control its population. Capitalism won.

>>136530087
> Keynesian economics are not a response to the failures of capitalism. Keynesian theory was a masonically crafted ideology to subvert small banks and centralize power. Also its quite fun if you don't have to work to buy your child sex slaves and adrenochrome down to the local synagogue or mason's lodge - you just print up the money.
Are you fucking insane? Keynesian economics are recognized by pretty much all mainstream economists to be valid and have multiple instances of working and getting economies to work when they weren't doing well. Not only that but a lot of Keynes' other ideas like sticky prices are still taken seriously today and have backing via evidence, just like general Keynesian economics.

>>136529405
>Oil prices crash, capitalist economy market crashes with it along with all the social policies. This is why you get rid of capitalism completely.

Oil prices crash and the capitalist government survives. Because it has more then one business. Venezuela does not because business fled the country when the government starts appropriating for the people.

How rich do you think Venezuela ruler and his friends are? How poor are the people? Why is the US still ok when the prices crashed? We took the hit and fracking slowed down. Canada took a hit but seems to be ok. Which capitalist country died because of the oil crash anon?

But Venezuela is dying in front of your eyes. And it cant pull out of the spiral. One man holds the power and his first concern is keeping the power. Tying off every possibility of some other option besides him.

>>136529405
>People all over the world are actually fleeing to Cuba
Weird how when I google people fleeing to Cuba all I get is Cubans fleeing to america.

>>136529405
>Very successful actually, look at the video I posted above in this thread. The only problem is it's difficult for a fledgling socialist state to survive among capitalist nations who see the system as a threat.
>Any other questions/comments/concerns?
The people forced at gun point to stay n cuba. The people forced at gunpoint to maintain a curfew after the death of el presidente? The shit load of atrocities cuba has performed to gain and maintain power? How about no free press in cuba? How about the fact that the economy still has not recovered from the fall of the soviet union? The shitty transportation system I would argue is the result of removing market forces in favor of central management.

My biggest concern is probably that I am talking to someone who would make about 80 times the earning of a cuban if he managed to get a starting minimum wage job at mcdonalds.

A few PR videos dont cover up the truth anon.

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>>136530311
>Keynesian economics are recognized by pretty much all mainstream economists to be valid
If you think anything in the main stream is valid you need to go look at yourself in the mirror. For your health, seriously. You have to be a true burger chomping subhuman goy to actually believe the mainstream exists to the benefit of the public. How fucking delusional are you? Do you know anything about fiat currencies or deficits? Have you at least read what happened to Rome? Weimar? Hello?

>>136528376
Thats hilariously self defeating propaganda.
>Don't be a Fascist or a Jew controlled Capitalist/Communist will kill you!

>>136529306
These are public companies on the stock market, anyone can be an owner and make dividends, and your also implying that the government can extract and process energy as well as a business can which I think is non sense, and you forget that people working in the oil sand often don't have much, but the oil sands run by businesses allow them to make six figure salaries and live a good life, you won't find this in collectivist nations like Venezuela

>>136529405

Also socialist countries do not fail because of attacks they fail because their economies can not be as competitive as capitalist ones.

>>136523567
don't complaints about usury usually come from the Right?

>>136530620
What does venezuelas hyper capitalist exploitation have to do with someone belief in ownership of oil?

>>136531013

The current shit is caused by the government not exploitation. People have been fleeing that country since they starting stealing private property and calling it appropriation. The gov thought its gov owned oil industry would last forever but when the price crashed they got fucked. Now the variety in the economy that could have saved them has already fled. And they are killing people to hold onto power.

>>136531013
I do not define myself with materials either way, only thing that exists is humans and their rights.

>>136531013
>Hyper Capitalist
Venezuela has nationalized oil like you seem to want.

>>136531279
Capitalist as in the monopolization of resources, the same in venezuela as US.

>>136531411
Venezuela does bot have national oil, it has capitalist oil where it belongs to a few.

>>136531411

More than 50 years ago. Collectivism is always the same. Its fine while it has the fruits of capitalism to feed off of. But eventually things change the the shitty form of economy cannot respond to save itself.

>>136531461
no its not.

>>136531539
Called the government and their friends.

>>136531539
National oil would be every national member having a share of the oil which varies according to involvement in the obtainment of the resource.

>>136531589
In venezuela the same amount of people dominate the oil as in the us, only that fairness has been achieved with the "revolution" thus you cant question the capitalists.

>>136531539
It's owned by the government owned so it is nationalized by a socialist government, it can't be capitalist oil because it's not privately owned.

>>136531866
Oil in Germany went nationally into factories, roads, schools, farms etc..

>>136531877
It is privately owned by a few, do you see any venezuelan with any oil?

left vs right is shit
embrace 3rd position
down with the kikes in every way

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>>136531995

>>136531866
The labels they call themselves "revolutionary" "communists" "capitalists" do not matter.

>>136531726
>>136531866

National oil means the government makes the decisions. That means its always in the hands of the few. This is the definition of collectivism because there always has to be a leader for humans.

You want people to share in the growth? Get a capitalist economy. Where businesses that mis-manage things die and get replaced by better ones.

Collectivism is the removal of freedom. Capitalism is the guarantee of it. Why do you trumpet collectivism and then turn away once you see it in action.

>>136532059
The government owns it. And the government is the people. Only under socialism the people work for the government and under capitalism the government works for the people. And even then it should be watched and kept small. government as necessary and inevitable as it is wants to grow and control more. Its the first instinct. Tell people they need to manage things and the first thing they want is control.

>>136532153
There is a ruler and a non ruler of all resources in Venezuela.

>>136532261
The people are the people, the Venezuelan people do not own oil, that belongs in the private banks of revolutionaries.

>>136532059
That's like saying why don't you see Venezuelans with any food, it's because of socialist policies. Venezuela's state owned oil production is some of the worst in the world.

>>136532412

The revolutionaries are the people anon. This is what you sign up for under collectivism. There will always be leaders. Put it in their hands and they will turn to shit. The government always requires a collar around its neck. Collectivism put that collar around the neck of the people. There is no other collectivism in the real world.

>>136532438
"Socialist"
Why do you define the decisions of a few as "socialist" as well as the ownership of a few as socialist, tell me what seperates ussr, cuba, and venezuela from the US other than the lack of ownership of the many in the "socialist" states.

>>136532778
There is nothing collectavist about any of those, the collection of people have no rights and will.

>>136532797

Freedom. Freedom to make your own choices. Freedom to own things yourselves. Freedom to shoot the government when shit gets bad rather then be unarmed and get shot by them. Thats what. Also functioning economies, less atrocities, not ending up in a miserable pile of failure?

Private ownership of anything only exists under capitalism. Under socialism the government owns everything and makes the decisions.

>>136533066
The difference in venezuela is that freedom of a chosen few to own everything.

>>136532913

You are looking at the only real life example of collectivism that will ever be anon. Collectivism is the people giving up their power to spite the man next to them because he might have more. There is your definition. You will never see it work out any other way in the real world.

>>136533221

Handed to them because of people choosing it. That is what you choose under collectivism. Don't blame someone else when you got what you wanted.

>>136533276
Venezuela is not collectavist or socialist, all resources are owned by a few only thing is that they no longer have to give anything to peasants now with martial force at work, tell me how socialist is an internal enforcesvto dominate others, this is not socialism, it is tyrannical capitalism.

>>136533416
The people have no ownership of resources and you are telling me their ownership of resources (lack of) is the reason venezuela is in such a state?

>>136532797
Hugo Chavez was a socialist, he was elected to put in socialist polices, such as seizing the means of production, economic democratization, they made over 100k worker cooperatives, communal banks; what you have today is the result. In the US anyone can actually buy shares in any oil companies they want and take share in the profits or capital gain, and employ hundreds of thousands of people in a land where they can live a good life because of the economic system that produced great prosperity.

>>136533513
>>136533640

No its collectivism. tyrannical collectivism is the only kind to ever exist. This is the result of putting the power in the hands of the government.

If you abolish private property you end up with nothing. Only under capitalism can you own anything.

The government is always the people. The difference is under collectivism you serve it. You have gotten rid of private property.

In order for it to be any other way the people must own things and the government must serve them. You need capitalism for that.

>>136533826
He was not socialist, and stupid people do not know what is socialism.

>>136523567
>what is the Alt-Right
A lot of guys in the Alt-Right do. Spencer practically calls himself a socialist.

I'm not countersignalling him or anything btw. This makes me respect him more.

>>136533826
Do the venezueland people own the resources of the land, yes or no?
If no then it is not socialist.

>>136532261
>You want people to share in the growth? Get a capitalist economy. Where businesses that mis-manage things die and get replaced by better ones.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Russia didnt industrialize under the tzar right? Russia is a hell of a lot better off after the soviet union than it would have been.

>Collectivism is the removal of freedom. Capitalism is the guarantee of it.
just give me that 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week senpai

>Freedom. Freedom to make your own choices. Freedom to own things yourselves. Freedom to shoot the government when shit gets bad rather then be unarmed and get shot by them
you delude yourself if you believe you have the right to do that without consequences of any other revolution

get out of here with your pseudo-logical arguments

>>136534075
>Alt-Right
ah yes the "movement" composed solely of internet meme connoisseurs (praise le kek xD) and homosexuals
this will be what saves us all

>>136533513
This.

>>136534075

I dont get how they can. Not in a large country. Communities can do it but once its bigger there needs to be someone in charge. And government that owns everything will go tyrannical. You need free markets to make decisions any person will fail in time.

>>136534156
>Russia didnt industrialize under the tzar right? Russia is a hell of a lot better off after the soviet union than it would have been.

Russia is only improving because of capitalist reforms.

>>136534156
>just give me that 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week senpai
You can choose otherwise under capitalism. Under collectivism you do what you are told.

>>136534156
>you delude yourself if you believe you have the right to do that without consequences of any other revolution
You can do that. Life might have consequences or put pressure on you but you have options. And you do not when you put the power in the hands of another.

You collectivists are ignoring the first fact of what you want. The abolishment of private property. The abolishment of any personal power. To be put in the hands of the government.

And there will always be a government.

>>136534148
The resources are nationalized under an elected leader, and used the money for populist policies, Hugo Chavez would fit under the definition of a socialist.

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Im out going to bed. Remember collectivism is the removal of private property and power in favor of central management. > Any government will get worse with more power > Collectivism turns the people into the slaves of the state.

If you have trouble with it stare at my pic for awhile.

>>136534575
>Russia is only improving because of capitalist reforms.
funny I remember the USSR being a much bigger threat back then than Russia now

>You can choose otherwise under capitalism. Under collectivism you do what you are told.
Just like when the capitalist fires you for losing a hand working for him.

>You collectivists are ignoring the first fact of what you want. The abolishment of private property.
put that goalpost back anon. we are talking about the right of revolution here

>>136528098
>american education

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>>136529389

I posted the wrong pic tbqhf.

>>136527754
>Paris Commune
>socialism
You're grasping at straws
also
>Rosa "just fuck my commie coup up senpai" Luxemburg
>successful
>Salvador Allende
>not thrown out of helicopter
>all eastern yurop commies
communism sure did them good
>Burkina Faso
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*breaths in*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>chinese autonomous region
>not mantained by starving chinese masses
>catalonia
>not spain's version of detroit
Admitedly, some may have worked for some time, but that doesn't mean an overall increase in happiness for anyone involved.
In Chile the result was Pinochet.
Burkina Faso is a shithole without comparison.
Kikemburg died without achieving anything.
And pretty much all the rest on the list was a Cuba tier situation
During the cold war, the USSR paid Cuba almost 80 dollars for the ton of sugar cane, when the market price was 5 dollars. Not so sure about the numbers, but it's something like that.
The few on this list that aren't a result of USSR gibs either failed miserably down the line or simply didn't even have the chance to do so.(Paris Commune is a good example of that)

>>136534261
They've done a hell of a lot more than you with you're fuckin' meme flag

>>136524736
Collectivism is a scale on which the asians for example are way further on the right while our social democratic societies are further on the left(more individualistic in theory and reality)

>>136525418
>implying that the free market would not increase degeneracy since sex sells would thrive even more

>>136526107
>Implying that I would ever want 75 IQ retards to make important decisions

>>136523567
>tfw no one ever attacks socialism from the left.

>>136523567
Capitalism is globalism and the abolition of the state and state borders. Mass migration happening everywhere but your private borders is still white demographic displacement, paired with business siphoning brown 'slave' labour