Minimum wage? More like Maximum Rage

>>136501298
Free market will correct that

Liberals are so stupid with their fight for $15 bullshit. A $15 min wage makes sense if you're in a rich global city but not if you're in some small town or even a medium sized city. If anyone here has worked at a small business they know that they typically run on razor thin margins.

Min wage should ideally be tied to something like 1/2 of regional median income or rent but because of Bernie's absolutism we have to go full retard populist.

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>>136501298

If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, maybe you're not a very good businessman.

>>136502011
Who defines what a living wage is? Teenagers taking orders 12 hours a week at clown burger live very comfortably.

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>>136501727
Rent on a single bedroom apartment is $400 more on average in California then Flag Staff

>>136501727
Ummmm bro. Medium income is 60K a year, if it was 1/2 it would be 30K a year at 20 an hour.

>>136501298
Why assume liberals don't want to close down small businesses?

>>136502011
doubling payroll costs overnight is going to cause issues for small guys while big corporations will still be able to operate

enjoy paying $30 for a pizza at your local joint.
don't forget to tip :^)

>>136501298
If you can't afford a paltry $12 per employee an hour then you don't deserve to be in business.
That's not even that much money; I'm making more for my employer working a single 7 hour shift a day.

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>>136501727
That's the whole Point of Agenda 21, and the collectivist that push it

>>136501727
If your company is so small that you run on razor thin margins and have min wage employees, you're fucking up. Either you need to not have those employees (do it yourself) or you are taking too much money out of the company.

>>136502592
Protip: 20 an hour is 40k a year

>>136502011
My living wage is 140k/yr and my GED is focused on drama and 2d animations. I'm a 19 year old go getter. Will you higher me?

>>136502811
>raising prices so you don't cut into your profits
Don't forget to clean up when you close down permanently

Are liberals capable of thinking long term?
Or of long term consequences?
Can anyone tell me how this isn't just going to end with prices inflating wherever minimum rage is raised?

>>136503072
>Are liberals capable of thinking long term?

I think the fact that every single idea they have ends up hurting the very people they're trying to help even more than doing nothing speaks for itself.

>>136502944
Don't be retarded.
Living wage pays for the mode 1bdrm apartment + a few hundred dollars for food, utilities and a car if needed in your area.

>>136501610
>Free market will correct that
Minimum wage is a regulation that creates monopolies. There will be no correction. Corrections come from competition.

>>136502880
Yeah Im sure things like Obamacare mandates have nothing to do with anything

https://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-employer-mandate/

>>136503072
I've learned a long time ago to just observe and adapt. The world is constantly changing, it will never stop changing, don't stop the change anon, adapt to it and work with the current.

>>136502011
Walmart can afford it but they would rather keep their employees on welfare so other people pay half the wage. Socialism at its best. Meanwhile the minimum wage increase forces Walmart competition out of business.

>>136502327
>12 hours a week
Living at home, maybe.
12 hours a week is less than autism bucks which aren't even enough to get by without other forms of subsidy.

>>136503316
No. Get a bunkbed, and rent share with other losers who microwave mcmuffins for a living... or have your parents support you. Maybe kill yourself? The world doesn't need what you're selling and you don't have a right to live.

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Why don't we just increase the minimum wage to $1,000,000 so everyone can be rich?

>>136503744
>strawman
Why don't you just kill yourself so I don't have to reply?

>>136502493
CA deserves to fall into the abyss and everyone in it, including me, deserves to die a horrible death.

>>136503687
I said don't be retarded.
You're better off in China where people live like that.

>>136503316
Not in my neighbourhood, plus in order to live I need several medical treatments regularly. I'm a postgender queer neutral trans male, trans racial, handicapped POC. If you're telling me that the wage I need to live should not support the life that I have then you're a biggot and you're argument is weak.

>>136503316
living wage shouldn't pay for a one bedroom apartment. It should be the minimum required to stay alive. These standard of living requirements are retarded as well.

You can fit 4-5 people easy into a 3 bdrm home and each only pay 200-300~ a month, no car payment because you bought one with cash for $1k but insurance ~$45, food bill 150-200~ month... You really don't need a lot to live. You need a bit more to live comfortably however, and that's what you faggots are stuck on. If you want to be comfortable and have a nicer standard of living, maybe you should contribute more than just flipping burgers, dumping fries into a fryer, or stocking shelves at walmart. But noooo, it's muh employers fault for not giving me more! I need more, I wanna be comfy too, but fuck doing anything for it! Bunch of lazy faggots. The only thing that helps me sleep at night is knowing that this world corrects all of the bullshit at the end of the day. No matter how much you "feel" like you need more, or "feel" like you should have more, you never will unless you fucking make it happen.

>>136503667
I did say teenagers. Those drive through jobs were designed for polite young white kids who want to buy beatles records, not rude middle age niggers who think they deserve a 5 bed colonial for fucking up my order.

>>136501610
there is no free market if there's a minimum wage

>>136501727
Or just get rid of minimum wage laws. It makes no sense to have them.

>>136503889
>I said don't be retarded.

can't even formulate an argument to some very valid points. You're just a fucking lazy pathetic faggot who wants everything handed to him and to be comfy womfy without having to get his hands a bit dirty. I bet you didn't get off the tit till you were 4-5.

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>>136501610
Welcome to McDonalds may I take your order?

>>136503382
Bad businessmen always have excuse after excuse

>>136501610
>>136501298
You need to raise the minimum wage to adjust for inflation, not sit on you ass for 25 years acting like inflation isn't happening.

That being said, you can curb raising the minimum wage by reducing the workweek hours.

If we want to combat automation, we'll need lower the workweek to 30-35 hours and raise the minimum wage.

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>>136503316
Maybe poor people should move to where the work is like they have had to for millennia

>>136503881
He's right though.
Why don't they?

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>>136502880
>t. 19 year old self proclaimed communist who has never seen how a business works

>>136504044
But then Wyte Ppl will be paying Juan $.25 an hour and Carl $3.50 an hour and Lenny $10 an hour

Nobody is held accountable.

>>136502880

Thanks for the business advice anon. I think your break is over, and customers are waiting for their coffee.

>>136503999
No one is checking your trips of truth so have a (You)

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>>136503935
My grandparents raised a 16 child family in a 700 sq ft 3 bedroom home.

Obviously a ridiculous example, but it goes to show that you don't need the metric shitload of square footage and amenities we're used to in order to survive.

>>136503949
>I did say teenagers
Then why are you bringing up a living wage? Parents are responsible for the kid's living costs if they're not shit.
And the job wasn't designed for teens inasmuch as it was designed for no-skill or low-skill workers.

>>136504327
>Why don't we nuke every country we're at war with?
Because extremes are retarded and unrealistic.

>>136504160
The sooner they automate the work force, the sooner we start getting UBI checks.

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>you will never live in a free market

>>136503949
this i don't go to fastfood places if i see niggers working. guaranteed they smell like pickles 7 days a week.

i only go to in n out or chick fil a everything else I've been too i saw 1 too many nigras

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>>136504167
Commies always ignore the hidden cost of doing business
https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_extended_toc.html
https://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-employer-mandate/

>>136504257
That's retarded. You adjust for inflation by investing the money that you're earning. I, as an employer, should not have to ensure that your pay is keeping up with inflation. You as an employee, as a human being, having to ensure that you are making enough to live. Get another fucking job, or better yet save your money that you're getting now and invest it! It'll beat inflation! WOAH! Workers are retarded and don't save/invest/work with any of the money that they make, then they demand that the people who do support them or make their life easier. You're a fucking retard who can't think past your next car and rent payment and have only yourself to blame.

Why combat automation? It'll free up a lot of time for people to contribute more to society. You'd rather have people working 30-40 hours a week instead of having it be automated? I'm sure that person is more than capable of adapting to an emerging market and find another way to earn subsistence, and if not then why again is it my problem that you're a failure to adjust?

>>136504642
But why don't we nuke countries we are at war with?
We lose our own forces by not doing this.

>>136504642
>>136504642
>why are you bringing up a living wage

Some faggot was saying all jobs should pay a living wage. I contend that many jobs are not now, nor ever, intended to do that. Some jobs are second jobs, hobbies, supplemental incomes, or kids jobs.

30 year old paper boys can neck themselves if they thought it was their ticket to more than the barest survival.

>>136504642
>no skill or low skill workers

then why should we be paying them the equivalent of skilled workers and laborers? They don't deserve an increase in wage as they don't increase anything themselves, they merely are an ant at that point.

>>136504257
And how exactly would that combat automation? Let's be just pretend for a moment that the automation meme is real and not just (((scare tactics))), how would lowering hours and raising wages do anything but push the inevitable further into the future.

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>>136503887
Sad part is people will say that were edgy but honestly LA is a cancer that is festering and causing the rest of the country to stink.
>END US

>>136505036
Im on your team brosef.

>>136504160
Is that an okonomyaki bot?

>>136502863
And that map looks about right for what we need to do.

>>136505036
My bad. Thougt that (you) was at me. Disregard>>136505171

>>136504756
UBI is not good.

It's a mechanism for social control and maintaining the existence of the state beyond its usefulness.

>>136503887
>including me
had a chuckle at this

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>>136504825
>That's retarded. You adjust for inflation by investing the money that you're earning.
Do you know what inflation is?

>>136501298
Why don't they just raise prices?

>>136502880
This post sums up the logic behind fight for 15

>>136505014
You capitalist fat cat! I should be able to work ONE job. Or better yet NO JOB when you greedy bastard corporations actually begin to pay taxes! Better idea why don't we nationalize all corporations so that the people are in control and directly profit from the work done there? Then finally there will be justice and wealth for all workers.

>>136505014
>b-b-but if I didn't deliver the papers than the newspaper wouldn't get read and the newspaper wouldn't have anymore subscribers and the newspaper would go out of business
>I'm important too!
>If not for me the whole thing would fall apart!
>I should get.. no.. I deserve! 30k/yr at least, and.. uhh... stock options!
>Yeah!
>They have to.. they don't realize how important I am, who else will wake up at 4am and chuck newspapers for 2 hours?
>I'm tellin ya, they don't appreciate me, and it's about damn time they do!

>I need burger king to pay me $15/hour so I can afford basic necessities such as...
>muh 4G smartphone service
>muh cable TV and home internet
>muh netflix
>muh iPad, Macbook, 65" 4K HDTV, and a new iPhone every year
>repair costs for all that because my cat keeps scratching the screens
>muh $40 blurays of movies and cartoons I will only watch once or twice
>muh $60 vidya games I will only play for ~10 hours plus tip for DLC
>muh Xbox Live subscription
>muh microtransactions in phone games
>muh overpriced faggy haircuts
>muh $25,000 car to drive half a mile to work every day
>muh $500 nigger sneakers
>muh overpriced decorative hipster furniture/clothing
>muh piercings and tattoos
>muh numale toys/anime figurines
>a guacamole machine that connects to muh smartphone
>muh starbucks every morning
>muh fast food every day
>and I need to donate at least 10% of my income to the patreons and kickstarters of my favorite twitter social justice activists and furry porn artists

>>136505014
it's shitlords like you with your 'i've got mine, now you get yours' mentality that need to neck yourselves.

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>>136505551

>>136504825
>Why combat automation? It'll free up a lot of time for people to contribute more to society.
And again, you still show you have no clue how to read or what you are talking about.

Do you know why the "40 hour workweek" was invented? It doesn't seem like you do.

>>136501298
If minimum wage had kept up with inflation and followed the original formula it was derive from, it would be no more than $12.70 an hour. $15.00/hr is too much.

>>136505014
>Some faggot was saying all jobs should pay a living wage
They should. How that living wage is calculated is another story.

>>136505036
Why is the answer that we're paying low-skill workers too much and not that we're paying skilled workers too little?

>>136505312
>It's a mechanism for social control and maintaining the existence of the state beyond its usefulness.
The "State" will always exist in some form or another long after we're both dead and forgotten. It's time to stop being a fag about it.

>>136505304
>And that map looks about right for what we need to do.
They eliminate Property rights, and personal vehicles to achieve that map. You will live in a Zone, and will need permission to leave said zone.

>>136505551
kek

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>>136505389
Yes, do you know what investing is?

oh no, how will i ever compete with inflation..

>>136505613
>:^)

>>136505823
>muh interest
found the jew

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>>136505551
a 3 eye Raven EYE CEE

>>136505613
>It's shitlords like you with your 'You've got yours, now give me mine" mentality that need to neck yourselves.

fixt

>>136504160
>not a nigger
>clean
>friendly
>efficient
>won't spit on my food because "fuk da whitey"

I'd like a double patty cheese burger with bacon and the works; no onions, please; light on the mayo.

>>136505551
>strawman
Seriously, if it's such an easily defensible topic why do we see so many of these?

>>136504756
never gonna happen, labor moves and you clean up for the robot, you do it yourself instead, or you just get cut out of the economy and arent able to afford robot services once they price you out of them.

Two restaurants in my downtown closed thanks to the NY "progressive" wage movement. Upstate NY gets fucked by the liberal degenerates in the city.

>>136506072
>true facts are strawmen
back2reddit

>>136505551
this is a list of basic necessities. are you arguing that people should not be able to afford or have acccess to internets? that they should be deprived of hobbies or relaxing playing games? that they should not be able to afford quality clothing? and what is wrong with supporting people on patreon or twitch for their content creation, they do not get paid otherwise.

you are the problem. no one should be forced to live without any of that. do you want everyone wearing rags and burlap sacks and walking around barefoot? what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>136505658
>The "State" will always exist in some form or another long after we're both dead

Correct, but federal level or state level?

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>>136504756
>UBI checks

Pic related is what UBI leads to

>>136505635
>Do you even?!!
>No you don't
>so there!

You're a faggot who can't form a valid point or argument. What does the origin of the 40 hour work week and the fact that people used to work 100+ hour weeks have to do with were labor and work is headed? If anything it goes to show that the labor put in each week is declining, making an even stronger case for automation.

You're an idiot.

>>136506072
If your argument lacks any common sense, then don't expect serious discussion to happen

>>136501298
Wait I live 2 hours away from Flagstaff in FH and its still only 10 dollars

>>136505823
Inflation=money has less buying power. It can effect investments...

>>136503316
When I moved to Austin 3 years ago, I made $9.25 an hour and it paid my rent, groceries and all my bills without assistance. Didn't have any fun money, but definitely a livable wage.

>>136506218
>true facts
>anecdotal evidence of faggotry from a non-existent person portrayed in such a way that just so happens to defend my view of the argument

Please kill self.

>>136506263
This nigga is honorary Australia tier.

Incidentally, I'm a business owner and I don't dress much better that that.

>>136505658
>Why is the answer that we're paying low-skill workers too much and not that we're paying skilled workers too little?

because the low skill workers wage is government mandated upon us whereas the skilled workers wage is a mutually agreed upon wage that flows into the free market ideal very nicely. How do you not see that?

>>136503881
Kek. What are the limits of minimum wage? The fact is that there is no realistic test for this because the whole policy is farcical.

>>136506456
>>anecdotal evidence of faggotry from a non-existent person portrayed in such a way that just so happens to defend my view of the argument
>poorfags having bad finances are anecdotal
good try libtard

>>136505084
>And how exactly would that combat automation? Let's be just pretend for a moment that the automation meme is real and not just (((scare tactics))), how would lowering hours and raising wages do anything but push the inevitable further into the future.
During the labor rights movement in America (that they don't teach about in schools) concepts like a minimum wage, the 40 hour workweek and weekends were invented. Why?

Lets say you have "worker #1" that an employer is working to death for 80 hours a week. And you have another "worker #2" that is unemployed, miserable and not earning any money. If you enact a 40 hour workweek limit, the employer still needs labor to cover the 80 hours he needs. He now employs both "worker #1" and "worker #2" at 40 hours each. Yes "Worker #1" takes a hit in wages, so you create a minimum wage as a floor so he can't be under-valued for his labor. "Worker #1" now isn't being worked to death and "worker #2" has a job and an income too. They both have weekends to rest and time to spend with their families.

How does this work with automation? If you have 3 "workers" at 40 hours and one job gets automated, but the factory still needs 80 hours of labor time, you lower the workweek to 26 hours so everyone keeps a job and slightly raise the minimum wage to compensate. This is an exaggerated example but it works in large scales when you have hundreds of thousands of jobs automated and tens of millions of workers total.

>>136505485
>Better idea why don't we nationalize all corporations so that the people are in control and directly profit from the work done there?
North Korea called. They want their idea back.

>>136505914
it has to do with inflation, which if we didn't have our current monetary system wouldn't even be an issue. It's a Jew system, gotta Jew the Jew sometimes unless you wanna stay working for them 40 hours a week.

>>136505702
hyperbole.
>>136505823
>investing on minimum wage
lol, stfu

>>136502011
I suppose you own your own business and pay all your employees a million dollars right?

No?

Then who are you to decide who is and is not good at business?

>>136503647
Actually if you knew anything you'd know Walmart's margins are pretty thin. With online competition it's very likely they'll go the way of the dodo in 10-20 years.

>>136502592
I think he was just an example of how this could be done without setting an absolute number. Maybe a better number is 30% or 35% or whatever. It's worth figuring out and will probably adjust up or down depending upon the city or state, etc. Additionally, as a city starts to prosper more then these people start earning better money as well.

>>136506624
>we should enable a jewish system
good try kike

>>136506506
and i bet you pay all of your employees the minimum wage, while you pocket millions, yet if they ask for a 25 cent raise, it's a big fucking deal, amirite?

>>136506431
it sure can. however investing curbs inflation if you are investing. That's the point I was making. of course it can affect investments you doofus.

>>136502011
You've definitely never run a business, I assume. If you have, then you were in a business that was very fortunate.

>>136502592
Bruh I make 44k at 16.60, overtime is usually no more than 8

>>136506300
Depends on the make-up and size of population, probably.
You don't need state level regulation if you're a country of a couple 100 million with a landmass the size of Texas.
>>136506326
>le slippery slope
>>136506510
LOL, there is no free market. It's not a thing anymore. Maybe before the 50's, but not now.
>>136506517
>What are the limits of minimum wage?
Technically none but an argumentum ad absurdum just makes you look like a fag.

>>136506792
I only "hire" 1099's. The government and it's ridiculous anti small business policies have given rise to the "gig economy", and I take maximum advantage.

>>136502011
agreed. these people are scumbags. they are all ego driven micro tyrants who's only goal is to be a gluttonous profiteer and get rich while robbing their employees for their work. they are wastes of life and hopefully they get bought out or absorbed by bigger chains. i don't understand what these retards are always on about with their love for 'mom and pop' stores. they are the absolute fucking worst of the worst.

>>136506821
It only curbs inflation if percent gain is bigger than actual inflation rate

>>136504160
Would actually tip

>>136507036
Wait wait wait... You're serious? Or are you the world's foremost satirist?

I don't see the big deal? Whats wrong with having a minimum wage so that if you are working fulltime on that job you can make ends meet and not rely on benefits? Whats wrong with keeping minimum wage in check with inflation as well? If you work full time and the minimum wage is £7.50 and your annual earnings would be about 15k a year, which is fucking poverty.

If there's a higher minimum wage so people dont have to rely on beenfits that means that the people in work wont be on benefits and we can work towards scrapping it and getting rid of the dead weight that dont actually work.

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>>136501864
>mexican destroyer
>cotton

>>136506637
>investing on minimum wage
>lol, stfu

>can't budget, save, or look for more opportunities elsewhere to make more

lol, stfu and stay poor faggot!

I swear that's the best part about all of this, no matter about how much you bitch and whine and complain about how everyone should be free and have these equal rights and equal access to everything and what not, at the end of the day you're still poor. You still have very little future prospects, you still can't afford lifes luxuries, and you still can't get over it! You demand it from people with it, but never go out and earn it yourself. You just want want want and cry cry cry, but never do do do. Quite frankly, it's beautiful, because it'll never change!

No matter what system you poor people live in, you will never thrive, you will never actually contribute, you will never mean anything or be anything more than a piece of semi-intelligent machinery. No matter how shiny your shoes are, no matter what new game you're enjoying, you'll always be a poor person, if not of material then of character.

>>136507255
Get rid of minimum wage and welfare, problem solved. I honestly don't care if a bunch of unskilled retards starve to death.

>>136502011

>if you can't afford to pay your employees charity, you're probably not a very good businessman

This is how retarded you sound

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>>136502811

>>136506772
>completely changing my words
can you into reading comprehension?

I said we are IN a Jew system. It has been this way in America since we've been using the Federal Reserve.

Good try poor nigger.

>>136505485
ok maduro

>>136507016
>anti small business policies

yeah, they're there for a reason, shitbag. it's so faggots like you don't get free reign to do whatever the fuck you want. you really are a true human piece of shit. 1099's are fucking cancer and if you are such a bum that you can't have a legit payroll and are forcing people to get double raped on their tax return, you deserve to go out of business.

>>136506988
>LOL, there is no free market. It's not a thing anymore. Maybe before the 50's, but not now.

That's the problem you faggot. By mandating a wage on low or no skill workers you are killing the free market and it is a problem. The reason skilled workers get paid more, and it isn't a problem, is because that wage is negotiated on between the employer and employee, not just mandated onto the employer by the state.

How fucking dense are you?

>>136506711

Canada back at it again, you might want to go recheck your shit there pal. They're the biggest and most profitable retailer in the world. Not to mention the most powerful, which is comparatively better than a fat bottom line desu. If you downplay Walmart you are either a faggot retard, or a kike.

>but you're a leaf so it's okay, you're a product of your environment.

>>136507357
>I honestly don't care if a bunch of unskilled retards starve to death.
>We should care about your right to own your money.
Do you want to be dragged out into the streets by an angry mob to be shot like a dog? Because that's how you get dragged out into the streets by an angry mob to be shot like a dog.

>>136507052
which it does and has done on average by 8%, so keep trying.

>>136507357
>Get rid of minimum wage and welfare

Millions would die. Communities would implode.

There would be civil unrest and refugees for years

>>136504160
Order will actually be right fuck these low life fucks who have go nowhere jobs had you actually applied yourself even modestly instead of dude weed you wouldn't be a fucking bum.

>>136502811
>he doesn't make his own
>with actual fresh ingredients
kek

If your employees rely on welfare to live, that means the government is subsidizing your business.
You deserve to go out of business if that is the case.
Funny how so called "libertarians" on /pol/ aren't aware of this simple fact.

>>136507239
no, i'm completely serious. let me ask you, mr small businessman who is really angry that he can't cheat the government out of more money, how much do you pay your employees? i'm assuming you must be one of these faggots who intentionally limits the head count to around 10 people who work there, right? please tell us how much they are paid, and how much you make a year. i don't care about overhead, or rent, just what they make, and what you make.

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>>136507497
>we should enable a jewish system
good try kike.

remember when mcDonalds said that if the minimum wage was brought in jobs would be lost to automation? and then they went ahead and did that anyway? haha good times

>>136506560
You didn't answer the question, how does your plan eliminate this conundrum instead of pushing it further into the future. This is a bandaid solution to ease the tension of a shifting economy. Instead of young able minded and able bodied people adapting to the changes we have whiny young adults demanding for someone else to take care of the problem. Automation is decades from even touching your scenario, and when it does start to infringe the job markets it will start with lower entry level, inneffecient, high school education positions - which will push people who would have filed those positions to explore alternatives that (if they are smart) will provide them marketable skills and a livable wage that will further their community instead of settling for flipping burgers at $15

Jews destroyed the value of the dollar and imported immigrants destroyed the value of labor.

I live in a flyover state and my salary is 600 a week as a hotel manager. If you more than doubled minimum wage to 15 an hour, every housekeeper would make more money than I do right now. this independently owned hotel would close its doors and everyone would be out of a job including me so fast your head would spin

>>136507634
>By mandating a wage on low or no skill workers you are killing the free market and it is a problem.
Megacorporations killed the free market; they got in first and are so ingrained at this point it's likely the damage they've done won't be reversed without a total or near collapse of the economy. Why save $1 on soap when you can spend that extra dollar and just get everything at Walmart?
Small chains that compete with Walmart only survive when there's not a fucking Walmart within 10 miles.

>>136501727
Min wage is a price control. If its set below equilibrium then its considered a price floor and has no real impact. If the min wage is set above equilibrium then you are fucking up the market and will cause harm.

>>136507696
Yeah but what I am saying is that investing does not a 100 percent curb inflation. Markets are volatile and it won't always be the case. Fed setting interest rates are probably the most powerful in steering inflation.

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>>136507943

>>136507637
>Do you want to be dragged out into the streets by an angry mob to be shot like a dog? Because that's how you get dragged out into the streets by an angry mob to be shot like a dog.

Poor people resorting to violence, hahaha never gets old!

However, unlike then and like now, we have a nifty thing called a "police force" who very much enjoy their shekels every other week and very much enjoy bashing commies in the head. So, yeah I'll stay in my nice fortress with all that life has to offer while you sit in your valley complaining how the man is keeping you down.

You can't innovate, create, exploit, or DO anything! So easier to just takes someone elses success by force.. Good luck as long as the rich as paying taxes and the police are being funded.

>that feel when you're poor and can't just steal from rich people so you may actually have to get your noggin joggin and find a way to thrive in this world
poor mans worst nightmore

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>>136507036
The thing that you faggots don't seem to comprehend is the more you useless dregs working for minimum wage push to get paid more (and inevitably put those mom and pop places out of business), the more you add to the job market that's competing for your own shitty ass jobs. Now who's Wal-Mart going to hire? A 19 year old nobody who feels entitled to everything for nothing or a 55 year old man/woman who managed an entire business themselves for 20 years, has experience in accounting, stock, distribution, etc. who's not asking for more money? Then, after you faggots get priced out of the only positions you can fill because you have no real marketable skills, you'll whine and cry that "duh evil boomers are being soooo unfair!" You're shooting yourselves in the foot and don't even realize it. Those "imaginary rich" small business owners in a lot, even many, cases aren't actually rich and will still need to earn money after they close up shop and they're going to be gunning for the same jobs that you're competing for now. It blows my mind that none of you hipster faggots ITT have mentioned this yet. Kek

>>136506988
>muh slippery slope
>there is no actual limit to my pet policy
Kys

>>136502011
>If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, maybe you're not a very good businessman.
Dumbest statement of the day. For starters many businesses have a very small profit margin. Also if you raus wages by two dollars then the actual raise will cost the employer even more cause his payroll taxes will go up.

>>136507255
Corbyn cuck detected

>>136507255

It's called a raise.

You get it after proving that you can work well. Your boss gives you a raise as an incentive to keep you working there and producing profit.

>>136507866
I'm convinced this is a troll now, you aren't even quoting what I said.

good try.

>>136507861
>Demanding an investment perspectus on the Chilean paperdoll forum.

If what I'm paying isn't enough, my guys are free to go work elsewhere. Case closed.

>>136506517
There is a test
You raise it to $15 and when every business closes and everyone loses their jobs and the welfare system buckles under the increased pressure and people revert to depression-era Hoovervilles where they starve en masse, then it's too high and you crank it back.
Come on man we have to experiment a little, it's not like anyone gets hurt right?

>>136504160
I would pay triple even for a shitty McD burger made by robots

>>136507861
people don't start business to make other people wealthy
you can if you want, but you have no business to judge anyone else working within the confines of the law

If you don't want to do the job for X amount of money, someone else will. Most likely Pedro.

>>136502880
If you're so useless that you can't figure out how to earn and get someone to pay you a living wage without the state mandating it, you're fucking up. Either you need to just die already and rid the world of your useless leeching or you are spending all of your money on drugs and trinkets.

Same logic. Wow.

>>136507974
Why can't these small soap retailers get into another business? it isn't mine or walmarts responsibility to make sure their sick soap shop doesn't go under... Maybe they should make some kickass soap and sell it online, if it's that good they'll have a decent niche!

But nooooo we have to save them, noooo walmart is a bully, noooo having to adapt to situations is hard and waaaaa

>>136508234
small profit margin, bitch please. if you own a business, you instantly have a nice house, nice car, nice everything. these are people making literal millions a year. if they have to take a hit to their profit to pay their own workers fairly, then boo fucking hoo. must be so sad living in a mansion and being a cheapskate to people who rent out shitty studio apartments and take the bus while their faggot asses are riding around in fully loaded mercedes's.

>>136508090
so curbing inflation wasn't enough, even though it's what was wanted, so now we have to 100% get rid of inflation for it to work.

stop moving goalposts you nigger. the only thing that will eliminate interest is if the Fed is abolished and the state starts issuing it's own notes.

>>136508202
>Poor people resorting to violence
Never stops happening, either. Class warfare is a fucking classic.
>1 million LEO's nationwide
>2 million service men and women
vs
>approximately 4% of fighting age males in poverty
Even without factoring overlap and a fairer estimate of poors, the numbers just don't compete.

>>136507595
Are you autistic? Anti-small business is part of the anti-middle class they've been pushing for so long. It's like you want to have a society of the giant corps with all the money and a bunch of dumb poor peasants.

>>136503913
Tried way too hard

Liberals: stop importing low wage workers and competitors for housing!

>>136508666
TFW my father who runs a contracting business where he employs three guys to refurbish bars owns a "nice house, nice car, nice everything" and is making "literal millions a year"
Fuck he really ripped my mom off in the divorce!

>>136501727
Great idea, dickhead. What do you think is going to happen to your town when people find out the min wage is double just two hours drive away?

>>136508666
Checked

Ok, at this point I'm convinced you are the satire sultan. Well played broo

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>>136508534
>Why can't these small soap retailers compete with Wal-Mart, who relies on their employees being on welfare to subsidize wages....
>While we also strip small soap retailers of tools they can use to compete in the first place by mandating a $30/hr "living wage" for half-retards putting soap in a box for a living
Do you understand how absolutely retarded you sound, or no? It's funny how all these businesses geniuses who have it all figured out are still working minimum wage jobs and haven't created their own businesses yet.

>>136508713
Sure they don't so ill just fly to an island with other rich people while you and the military fight it out. I bet they'll want us a lot more than they'll want you! So again, good luck!

>>136508418
interesting how you dodge the question. then bring up being on 4chan itself. you take that same shitbag attitude too "well they can go somewhere else". they will. they always do. tell me, if you won't tell us how badly you're fucking these poor bastards on their paycheck, than what's the turnover rate like?

must be a horribly arduous chore to constantly re-train a new person every couple of weeks after they realize what a bad deal it is to work for you, and they quit.

but! i have a solution to the revolving door of people that you must deal with: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. pay more than the minimum wage. you will have more competition, you will have better applicants. of course you are too greedy and trite and won't do this. because you are a terrible human being and want to pay slave wages instead.

>>136502011
Wages come from productivity, if you're not worth $15/hr, why should you be paid it?

>>136506711
So Amazon wins. Still doesn't help small business.

>>136502011
>all jobs must be for a living wage
many unskilled jobs have more applicants than there are openings for such positions

in such a market labor is not worth whatever you deem a 'living wage' to be

also section 8 creates upward pressure on rent, no landlord will rent for less than what secion 8 is paying and in many areas section 8 rents cause working people to have to live in the boonies because the good real estate has non-working people living in it

>>136501727

Idiot.

They fight for a $15 minimum wage in case it gets dropped to $12.

Don't you know anything about bargaining? You ask for a high number so you're okay with what number it gets dropped to.

I do agree with minimum wage laws, by the way. Is the alternative any better? The employee goes on food stamps and rent assistance?

I'd rather businesses pay their employees a living wage. That's the whole point of being employed after all, so you can afford food and housing.

>>136509092
I think you have me misunderstood, I don't agree with any minimum livable wage at all. Read my post history in this thread to get a more accurate picture of what I'm conveying before you type your next post.

Fuck welfare, fuck minimum wage, and if small businesses can't keep up or adapt in todays markets too bad.

>>136508457
>boo hoo i want to be a selfish greedy prick and treat everyone like shit and no one likes me because of it

please go die.

>>136509109
Unless you and your rich buddies plan on lugging massive amounts of precious metals with you, you may be surprised to find that digital dollars hold no inherent worth. Good luck with your LARP!

>>136502880
You have a point, the Micky-D's i worked at for three years as Management taught me that only 20% of ALL INCOME went to paying employees. The company model was designed to be profitable. If it weren't then they couldn't afford to invest in automation. Or to spend Millions in order to Lobby Congress. Also, don't forget that, like most multi-million dollar corporations, they pay VERY little in taxes, get incentives to pay very little in taxes thru "Charitable Donations", too.

>>136503913
Statistically you are an hero.
Enjoy the abyss literal faggot

>>136509317
There are a shit ton of small businesses currently leveraging Amazons global sales channels.

>>136508730
Not trying at all, I was exaggerating a point in order to showcase the absurd claim that "livable wage" is an objective term used by people with no foresight and yet demand drastic action.

>>136508697
You misunderstood me. I am not saying curb inflation to the point where there is none. I am saying that percent gained from investment will not always be higher than inflation rates. Did this because you referred to the 8% like it won't change. Basically it is not the end all be all for combating inflation. Eliminating the fed will not get rid of interest rate. Also states issuing their own notes will not get rid of interest rate.

>>136509392
>I'd rather businesses pay their employees a living wage.

Even if they employ significantly less of them? Like all stupid liberal economics, you're hurting the people you were told you were helping.

>>136509475
See >>136509546

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Tfw you're such a shitty businessman you can't even afford to pay your employees a fair wage

>>136509404
He's right though. You start a business and employ people because you have tasks that need to be done for your business to operate. You don't owe them anything other than what you can get away with paying them to get people interested in working for you. Business owners are job creators not charities.

>>136509412
sure you're right.

take it, take it all. all of the resources, all of the money, all of the everything! The difference and between rich and poor is their ability to adapt, overcome, and succeed. So go ahead and take everything, because it will simply happen all over again once the naturally better acquire it all again and the poor shitbirds riot and revolt and demand their fair share!

>>136501727
>typically run on razor thin margins
Yes, so the owners get paid well.

>>136509651

>People will lose jobs that don't pay them a living wage and require them to go on food stamps and rent assistance


Oh no!

>>136509571
>telling my my arguments are wrong
>not saying why
>not offering alternatives

this thread is really something guys ill tell ya

>>136509392
>being an employer makes you responsible to pay for everything your employees need
>not just paying them a market wage
somebody's a serf, show your leaf

>>136504257
>reduce hours
>increase wages
So people work less and get more? How the fuck does that curb inflation and not make these minimum wage jobs switch to automation? You're seriously so retarded I can't even fathom how this is either a troll or a serious comment.

>>136509705
If you can get away with keeping up applicants and keeping your business running by paying employees little, doesn't mean you are a really smart business man?

>>136508722
no, you're missing the larger picture. i'm not advocating for everything to turn into big box, corporate owned everything. can't have that, that would eliminate all competition. what i'm advocating is that the people who are these moms and pops to do right by their employees - which they do not.

if the flat minimum wage is being paid by lets say best buy, but the exact same wage is being paid at some independently owned place, then what incentive does anyone have to support the mom and pop? they're not in a position to offer healthcare, eye, dental, etc. fuck them. i'd rather work for the big box. it's just a better deal. if the mom and pops weren't so fucked up and greedy, they wouldn't be constantly routed out of towns. do you understand?

>>136509736
>The difference and between rich and poor is their ability to adapt, overcome, and succeed
What a difference money makes in a society built on the acquirement of wealth as the metric of success!
Knowledge bombs being dropped!

>>136507861

The only limit on his number of employees is based on government regulation. If there was no if/then clause wrt the number of employees he could hire one at cost.

When adding an employee activates certain financial responsibilities, one more min wage worker can cost you quite a bit more. Its one of the ways small business is being strangled in this country, by placing this artificial gap they have to jump over between small business and big boy business.

>>136502880
Yeah you're right, the CEO of McDonalds should just cook the burgers at all of the millions of stores.

Kill yourself.

>>136508666
>small profit margin, bitch please. if you own a business, you instantly have a nice house, nice car, nice everything.
Okay retarded. Go on legal zoom and register an LLC and let me know when everything 'instantly' becomes better.

>these are people making literal millions a year.
Yes, because a lot of the times they did all of the hard work to make their business work. Unlike you, who is on 4chan complaining that the minimum wage isn't high enough, because you earn minimum wage, because you're a retard.

>if they have to take a hit to their profit to pay their own workers fairly, then boo fucking hoo.
Large companies are almost never wholly owned by a single party. Operating a company requires capital, and unless you're already a billionaire, capital means investors. To attract and retain investors, you need to provide a return on those investors' equity. If you raise the cost of workers, you're lowering the return on equity for those investors. And for publicly traded companies, a lot of those investors aren't millionaire cigar smoking robber-barrons. They're ordinary people who are depending on a good return on equity in their retirement portfolio so that they don't have to keep working until they're 75. So by raising the cost of doing business, you're hurting a ton of people, not just rich people.

Also, raising the minimum wage doesn't help poor people, because a lot of poor people are unemployed, and a lot of minimum wage workers aren't poor. You're just helping college students afford more beer and a nicer bong, and bored housewives afford more shoes.

>>136502011
If you can't afford to make a livable wage, you aren't a very skilled human.

>>136509916
>which they do not
you sure about that?

do you have actual data on whether mom and pops pay more or less?

>>136509198
No revolving door on this end, and even if there were; the sea of applicants is as deep as it is wide. Thank socialism/collectivism/regulations for that.

I pay what it takes to get the job done. Here's the kicker (you'll love this), if they do a shit job, they don't get paid at all. That's how b2b works son. Agian, Thank the aforementioned for making what should be as easy as "fair pay for honest work" into bureaucratic hell.

>>136505551
capped. /thread

>>136502011
Definitely not a good fellow countryman. Might be good for cut throat bottom line business but not good for a nation.

>>136509846

>Implying I believe in the free market

I support unions and collective bargaining.

>>136509705
>I should be paid a living wage for flipping burgers a few hours a day

>>136509913
No, it just means you're good at exploiting people, which only becomes necessary because you couldn't stay afloat otherwise. Good businessmen make enough profit and hace enough security to pay their employees a decent wage.

>>136502592 $15 an hour is ~31,000 annually you autist

>>136509705
Another genius on pol that's never run a business. If you have, you were running a very fortunate business.

>>136509972
You're delusional, have fun in your imaginary "I wish this is how things really were!" world you live in while you stay poor and yes, unsuccessful in this real material world we live in. Have all of the happiness and love you want hippy, I'll have what really matters in this world. Sorry to shatter your perception of reality that your mommy lied to you about, it isn't really just about being happy. You have to actually work, acquire, create, and invest in this world. At the end of the day, no one is looking out for your family better than you can, and trying to rely on someone else for it is going to get you a shitty poor life.

no matter how much you "feel" about the metric of success, it is what it is. So have fun staying what you are, poor.

>>136509793
Is welfare a living wage?

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See the huge dip on the right? That's income growth for the poor and middle class in the western world over the past 20 years.

The hill on the left and the spire on the right is OUR money being redistributed to 3rd world countries and the top 1%

>>136508666
>what are legal fees
>what are registration fees
>what are taxes
You are a 15 year old who has absolutely NO idea what it's like to even work independently, let alone own a business that employs even 5 people.

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>>136502962
You're so frustratingly close to self-awareness. You're arguing on behalf of the multinationals who can diversify their holdings enough to take the hit, while your regional and mom-n-pops go belly up. You're going so far as cheering on the euthanasia of your neighbor's livelihoods.

College should be free.
Healthcare should be free.
Minimum wage should be $15 an hour.

>>136508442
I sure as fuck don't. You can get a decent burger made with real cow for that much.

if i'm ever at mcdonalds its because I want as many hot and fast calories as possible for as few pennies as possible.

>>136507943
Truth!

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>>136509916
>if the flat minimum wage is being paid by lets say best buy, but the exact same wage is being paid at some independently owned place, then what incentive does anyone have to support the mom and pop?
Aren't you the same faggots always arguing with your fee-fees and telling us how evil and heartless corporations are? That would kind of be incentive enough to not work for them if you had half a brain and an ounce of dignity (given that wages were the exact same). I don't expect faggots like you to actually confront your hypocrisy or realize how wrong you are though, it's just funny and extremely easy to point it out again and again. You dipshits will never be happy because you base your entire life off of pointing and whining about how "that person has more toys than me so this is, like, totally unfaaair." To be honest, it's a pathetic way to live life and if you expect money to just fall in your lap without any improvement/self-determination on your own part you should probably just go live under a tree somewhere.

>>136510314
> Good businessman

Businessman in the right place at the right time to be in a business with little competition where they an demand higher than normal prices thus allowing for running at margins that aren't razor thin.

But please, educate everyone on pol how you know everything about running a small business. I'm sure you have decades of experience running dozens of businesses in dozens of different industries.

>>136501298

Good. If you're not making enough to pay your employees fairly, then you should go out of business.

>>136510476
t.19 year old

>>136505551

yes - by all means, let's cut demand for all those products.

that would be fucking fantastic for the economy!

you do realize economies work best when the people at the lower end have enough money that they can not only take care of their basic needs - but also afford to patronize small businesses... and those small businesses owners can in turn afford more luxury items and so on.

wealth at the bottom creates demand and the elite compete to capture the demand - because if they don't, someone else will... that's a healthy economy.

>>136510312
We live in a post scarcity society. There is no legitimate reason why people who work shouldn't make enough to buy healthy food, pay rent, have healthcare, and have a reasonable standard of living.

>>136510314
>Good businessmen make enough profit and hace enough security to pay their employees a decent wage.
No, a good businessman would take the profits and expand to make more money. You're a fucking idiot and that is why you will always be poor and depend on productive members of society for handouts.

>>136508713

But anon, your entire fighting force is scared of guns and allergic to labor.

>>136510593
That's not how businesses and the free market work. Try again.

>>136510593
This seems to be a reoccurring theme, distinct from the usually shit the summerfag 15 year olds post in these kinds of threads. Starting to smell a lot like shills.

>>136509828
Let us say that getting rid of the fed does get rid of interest(0%). You then get a classic zero bound interest rate problem. This creates death spirals and liquidity traps. Also private banks will set rates themselves even if fed dont exist. So interest rates will exist as long there is loaning and putting money in a bank.

>>136510324
Unfortunately small businesses are obsolete. You will never compete with the Amazons, Home Depots and McDonalds' that are so efficient they can more then afford a $15 minimum wage.

>>136510593
Son, you are way late to this gaygangbang

>>136508827

>TFW your bitch daughter is screwing you on the lemonade stand
>TFW you provided all the capital

Is there a german word for proud/angry?

>>136510476
why give free college and free healthcare, which aren't even basic needs, and not give free food and shelter first? But why stop there?! Why not free college, healthcare, travel, entertainment?!

You should not be depending on anyone but yourself to make it in this world, not having the state mandate requirements to ensure that you're ok. Why do you want the state to have the power to ensure that you're way of life isn't changed? What if they decide to take it away?! Now youre back in the same boat instead of just doing it for yourself in the first place you lazy poor shitty people.

>>136510368

Your arguments are shit.

"People will lose jobs!"

You could say that about any minimum wage.

If someone is getting paid $7.50 an hour and they have children they're obviously going to have to go on food stamps and rent assistance.

Is it better for the government to pay them? I think it should be their employer.

There's no point in working if it doesn't allow you to pay for your food and housing. You might as well not work.

>>136510662
Awesome. So go get the skills that you need to get a job/career that will give that to you. There's thousands of options out there. You don't need big daddy government controlling your life and the lives of business owners to get that done. That's called tyranny and authoritarianism.

>>136510713

Free market is just a construct made up by the ultra wealthy to game the system. You know this.

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>>136510940
>You might as well not work.
No, because we're going to start putting THOSE people in the wood chippers.

>>136510428
oh no my neighbors are too dumb to adapt and compete on the global market so their houses get foreclosed on and I buy them and sell them to people who have their shit together and aren't letting the changes of this world drag them down into the gutter.

>>136509768
No, because if you are not running on the margin you could be doing better by running on the margin. Buisiness that give huge bonuses to their CEOs tend to be collapsing because their competitors are not giving bonuses to CEOs and using the money saved to undercut goods instead.

>>136510662
>We live in a post scarcity society

In case you're actually retarded enough to believe this, here's a mental exercise. Why would things have a price if nothing was scarce? If we pay prices for things today, and nothing is subject to the laws of supply and demand (infinite supply) then why do things cost anything at all?

>>136510776
Fba is a huge new stream of rev to mom and pops, thanks to amazon. Home depot has million of independent contractors doing installs. McDs is legitimate shit, I'll give you that... but small biz people find a way to stay in the game no matter what.

>>136510776
> afford a $15 minimum wage

Dude, you just mentioned 3 companies that regularly don't offer that kind of pay.

But yes, I do own a small business. I offer products that Amazon refuses to sell for one reason or another. The key is, find a niche market and make it happen. The possibilities are great!!!!!!!!!!

If your business can't afford a few $ minimum wage hike, then you had no business being in business.

>>136510312
Have you worked in food service? It's more than "flipping burgers".

- stocking
- cleaning
- tasks
- food prep and learning how to make everything on your menu
- taking orders
- lunch/dinner rush
- customer service
- dealing with assholes who don't respect you all day
- covering callouts with no coverage
- shutting down and cleaning all the equipment
- standing and moving constantly for 8+ hours
- having to work through being sick and injured because you'll be homeless if you don't
- politicking and favoritism
- poor management

I could go on and on about all the shit food service people have to deal with. But in short you're an asshole and so are people who belittle customer service people as having a "mcjob".

You probably wouldn't be able to handle it.

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>>136501298
root of all inequity is the unequal division of land and until you guys realize it all your min wage hikes, tax cuts and other politically expedient things dont matter

tax land not man
read Henry George

>>136510940
You don't even understand what I'm arguing. You are saying some dollar amount/hr is a "living wage", but I'm asking if you what welfare pays amounts to that? If it doesn't, why wouldn't prices go up as rent, food, etc., is subsidized?

Again, you believe you are helping people but you are making fewer people employed and making everything cost more. Even if everything is subsidized, it means welfare costs more to cover it and now there are fewer tax payers. You aren't helping anyone.

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>>136510940
>If someone is getting paid $7.50 an hour and they have children they're obviously going to have to go on food stamps and rent assistance.
>Is it better for the government to pay them? I think it should be their employer.
So it's now small business owners who are responsible for Shaniqua's poor life decisions of having 5 blackie runts she can't pay for? In what world does that make any sense? One where "personal responsibility" is non-existent?

>There's no point in working if it doesn't allow you to pay for your food and housing. You might as well not work.
So don't work. Go sit under a tree, outside, don't eat and die I guess. The problem isn't not being able to "afford food" or "afford housing", the problem is people feeling entitled to a steak dinner every night in a penthouse condo for working a minimum wage job.

>>136504811
She is shocked, SHOCKED at the poverty.
I've never seen an eviller person in my life.

>>136510749
interest rates will exist! yes! but not inflation you fucking dense motherfucker! Who cares if the banks are charging interest? That just means sooner or later they'll end up with all of the money. That doesn't mean don't allow the banks to do this, it means DONT BE A FUCKING MORON AND TAKE OUT A LOAN AT INTEREST THAT YOU CANT MAKE MORE THAN THAN INTEREST BEING PAID ON IT.

If people want to be stupid and take out loans and not use them to make themselves richer and instead only give money to the banks and make them richer, that's their prerogative.

In a zero-sum game like that you will be polarizing the rich and the poor very very quickly. Which is fine with me.

>>136509392
Current minimum wage is a living wage. Not a high quality living but a living nonetheless. If you're not happy with your quality of life you're going to have to make adjustments. If you can't afford the current quality of life you have under the wage you're receiving you'll have to make adjustments. It's more than possible. $300/month apartments exist. If you work a minimum wage job you should expect to live like a nigger, not just automatically think you deserve more. If you want to force a business into paying than they can afford on labor you can expect layoffs, or a total shutdown of that business. Then the minimum wager is in an even worse position than before.

>>136511180
Amazon sells weird Japanese sex toys. What the fuck are you selling that Amazon won't let you?

>>136510940
Does anyone realize the reason the minimum wage was created was to push minorities out of the market by keeping them from offering to earn less to get a job during the industrial age?

>>136504756
The sooner you become insignificant in the grand scheme to the point offing you, the average pleb, will bring no consequences.

>>136511288
This. Take any minimum wage job and realize that the owner/managers will give you a dozen other duties totally unrelated to your job title.

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>>136510662
No one is forcing niggers to work at walmart all their life.

No one is forcing them to have 5 kids and fucking themselves into poverty.

If we lived in a free society niggers could open up a business and give back to society, but regulations burden small business owners and niggers are lazy

Let evolution kill off the weak

>>136502493
can confirm
commiefornia is buring trash

>>136505823
Faggot uses 10% interest rate ROI. Shows just how unrealistic he is... what a fucking jew.

>>136511029
Free market is what happens when people choose on their own will what they want to do. Basically, it's the very first type of market that humans invented before they had any concept of markets.

Oh but I guess it was a rich caveman keeping the workers down.

>>136510969
Doesn't work that way. Every area is different with what is hiring what, and it's always hyper-competitive. If you don't have connections, you ain't getting a livable wage for years

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>>136511288
Look at this motherfucker trying to glorify a fast food job
>we have to do cleaning
>and tasks...and uh...
>stuff
Even had to list "cleaning" twice because he's too retarded to come up with a list of 10 actual things that fast food workers DO. This is why you get paid minimum wage. Also "having to work because when you're sick or injured" isn't some big bad conspiracy, it's called the real world and people in jobs/careers have to do it all the time being paid minimum wage of 100k. Welcome to adulthood.

>>136511291
>Again, you believe you are helping people but you are making fewer people employed and making everything cost more.

Making fewer people employed? The horror!

Not every job is good. A few decades ago coal workers were slaving away and winding up with that black lung shit.

The law steps in to protect workers and prevent them from being exploited from being paid too little.

Your right-wing talking points are shit. "Jobs are sacrosanct!"

Uhhh no. I don't give a fuck about shitty jobs that pay $7.50 an hour and whether people lose them. Guess they're weren't really needed then to run the business.

>>136511630

So, you're saying we should go back to the caveman times? Great. Wonderful. This is what the right wants...

>>136510315
>LIVING IN RENT FREE LAND
PAY UP THE 15% FED GOY

>>136511031
Yep. Free market. Do what you want to with your own property. Problem?

>liberals: conservatives just assume all poor poeple are poor due to laziness and stupidity, this is insultingly oversimplistic
>liberals: if you cant afford a minimum wage hike then your business sucks

>>136511761
>minimum wage or 100k*

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Let me enlighten you all on how to end this inequity problem. The solution is a land value tax as proposed by Henry George in Progress and Poverty written in 1879

>Georgeism reconciles common land rights with private tenure, free markets and modern capitalism.

>Those who got the upper hand by securing land tenures would support public services, so wages and commerce and capital formation could go untaxed.

>To pay the taxes, landowners would have to use the land by hiring workers (or selling to owner-operators and owner-residents). This would raise demand for labor; labor, through consumption, would raise demand for final products.

>To pay the workers, landowners would have to produce and sell goods, hereby raising supply and precluding inflation. Needed capital would come to their aid by virtue of its being untaxed. Thus, George would cut the Gordian knot of modern dilemma-bound economics by raising demand, raising supply, raising incentives, improving equity, freeing up the market, supporting government, fostering capital formation, and paying public debts, all in one simple stroke.

>>136511694
This.
Between nepotism, "dude, you're my frat bro I'll get you a job at my law firm", diversity/female quotas, H1B work visas, and outsourcing jobs overseas, it's a fucking warzone out there.

>>136510358
>You're delusional
>The prosperity of America will continue for the 10% forever!
Gee, that isn't the exact mentality of the bourgeoisie during every class uprising ever.

>>136511296
>So don't work. Go sit under a tree, outside, don't eat and die I guess.
>This is what retards honestly believe
It is in YOUR best interest that even the dregs of society are kept pacified. They don't have anything to lose. You do.

>>136511388
Inflation will always exist as long issued money exists. Relation between money supply and size of economy will almost definitely exist so does inflation. Even things like expectations will cause it.

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>>136511916
>George's proposal enables us to lower taxes on labor without raising taxes on capital. Indeed, it lets us lower taxes on both labor and capital at once, and without reducing public revenues.

> Georgist tax policy reconciles equity and efficiency. Taxing land is progressive because the ownership of land is so highly concentrated among the most wealthy,'8 and because the tax may not be shifted. It is efficient because it is neutral among rival land-use options: the tax is fixed, regardless of land use. This is one favourable point on which many modern economists actually agree, although they keep struggling against it
> Georgist tax policy contains urban sprawl, and its heavy associated costs, without overriding market decisions or consumer preferences, simply by making the market work better. land values are the product of demand for location; they are marked by continuity in space. That shows quite simply that people demand compact settlement and centrality. A well-oiled land market will give it to them.

>>136502592
t. burger

>>136511761
Nice cherry picking, there was a reason I separated those two cleaning tasks. General cleaning and breaking down and cleaning food equipment are completely different skill-sets. Depending on what the equipment is, you'll have people who can't or are even not allowed to handle the equipment.

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>>136511969
> Georgist tax policy creates jobs without inflation, and without deficits. "Fiscal stimulus," in the shallow modern usage, is a euphemism for running deficits, often with funny money. George's proposed land tax might be called, rather, "true fiscal stimulus". It stimulates demand for labor by promoting employment; it precludes inflation as the labor produces goods to match the new demand. It precludes deficits because it raises revenue. That is its peculiar reconciliatory genius: it stimulates private work and investment in the very process of raising revenue. It is the only tax of any serious revenue potential that does not bear down on and suppress production and exchange. As I have noted, George's fiscal policy takes two problems and composes them into one solution.

> George's land tax lets a polity attract people and capital en masse, without diluting its resource base. This is by virtue of synergy, the ultimate rationale for Chamber-of-Commerce boosterism. Urban economists like William Alonso have illustrated the power of such synergy by showing that bigger cities have more land value per head than smaller ones. (Land value is the resource base of a city.) Urbanists like Jane Jacobs and Holly Whyte have written on the intimate details of how this works on the streets. Julian Simon (The Ultimate Resource) philosophizes on the power of creative thought generated when people associate freely and closely in large numbers. Henry George made the same points in 1879

>Georgist policies encourage the conservation of ecology and environment while also making jobs, by abating sprawl. It is a matter of focusing human activity on the good lands, thus meeting demands there and relieving the pressure to invade lands that are now wild and marginal for human needs. Sprawl in the urban environment is the kind most publicized, but there is analogous sprawl in agriculture, forestry, mining, recreation and other land uses and industries.

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>>136512019
>Georgist policies strengthen public revenues while in the same process promoting economy in government. Anti-governmentalists often identify any tax policy with public extravagance. Georgist tax policy, on the contrary, saves public funds in many ways. By facilitating the creation of jobs it lowers welfare costs, unemployment compensation, doles, aid to families with dependent children and all that. It lowers jail and police costs, and all the enormous private expenditures, precautions, and deprivations now taken to guard against theft and other crime. Idle hands are not just wasted, they steal and destroy

>>136510011
>let me know when everything 'instantly' becomes better

pretty much right away. example: you have X amount of money to buy into a franchise. you suddenly own that franchise. you can then use it as collateral to buy house, car, etc. the franchise pays it all off. i didn't say it was easy, i just said it's an incredible fast track to wealth, and to have the capital to even do this does not come from a minimum wage job.

>you earn minimum wage
no i do not. but i am of the position that people deserve a livable wage.

>blah blah pretending that we're talking about owning amazon or some shit
you're just an idiot. it isn't about stoners buying crackpipes or whores buying heels. it's the ability to ESCAPE POVERTY. it's clear that you just want to take from people if you would want to deny things from them, and you're just a shitty person.

>>136511785
Nope. It allows for freedom of choice without external coercion. In the old days, there was no external coercion until the formation of city-states and larger tribes where someone desired to control the exchange of goods. Usually also involving a tax that stuffed their personal purses. Non-free-market solutions are tyranny and authoritarianism.

>>136501298

% of people that are on minimum wage

>absolute non-issue

Again.

>>136507388
>That gif
LOL and saved

>>136511761
Yeah moron because cleaning the grill/fryers is the same skill set as sweeping and mopping the floor.

Where the fuck did this "look down on fast food workers" meme even originate from? Honestly it sounds like "we can't tell you to feel superior to niggers anymore so we need to find something else to fling vitriol at" to me.

>>136511694
>it's always hyper-competitive
So shit you lazy sack of trash. Competitive jobs pay well, non-competitive jobs where you can be lobotomized to perform do not. Make yourself competitive.

>>136504572
I grew up in a family of 5 in a block of flats on 70 square meters, that's balcony included. These 15$ an hour thing seems so alien to me. I understand that prices adjust etc but americans are really pampered people

>>136505551
I make $10 an hour so its more like:
>muh cheep track phone i can only afford service on some times.
>muh free wifi at mcdonalds.
>muh collection of pirated movies.
>muh dumpster picked laptop because retards will literally throw a new laptop in the trash because the hard drive goes out.
>muh $20 Walmart sneakers
>muh ramen noddles with egg in them.
>muh Frankenstein 98 corolla I drive15 miles to work in every morning at 5:30 am.
>muh Illegal as fuck wifi antenna with a 7 mile range and quick retract system for when the FCC occasionally drives around looking for me.

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>>136511924
It's in no one's "interest" to pacify a bunch of lazy faggots. Giving them a $2 raise whenever they cry, bitch, and whine only teaches them that whenever they cry, bitch, and whine it equates to a pay raise regardless of if they're actually bringing value/profit to a company which is the reason they're hired in the first place.
>They don't have anything to lose, you do.
And threatening violence/repercussions against people who don't give you more money is literal extortion by definition. The sooner these retards who don't have the capacity to adapt to the world and overcome obstacles die off, the better for all of us. We don't have to do a thing for them and don't have to resort to violence we just have to be absolutely apathetic and let nature (starving, being exposed to the elements, etc) run it's course. That's just the hard truth that you refuse to look at.

>>136510061
mom and pops generally pay minimum wage with no benefeits. most are family owned, and only hire within their family and friends (nepotism). they are a scourge and need to be eliminated, unless they start acting proper. and i love when i see a place like that go out of business. buried up to their necks in debt from mismanagement, shitloads of bad reviews on yelp. it's always the same. doesn't matter if it's a restaurant or a clothing store. it's proof that the people running it were incompetent scumbag book-cooking assholes.

>>136510749
I smell JEW!

>>136512315
yea and guess what youre still alive and living with luxuries

>>136511288
BOO HOO

Get some marketable skills and you won't be doing shit work. Anyone can work at a fastfood place because it requires minimum skills, so it pays minimum wages. How is this hard to understand?

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>>136505551
I need my job as an office clerk to just raise my wage to fucking 12 dollars (The god damn median, i'm below the fucking average) so I can afford
>one bedroom 500 sq ft apartment for 500 a month
>food costs
>fuel costs
>eventual vehicle maintenance costs, hell I can already hear my car telling me it will need shit soon already, also including oil changes and whatnot
>internet
>my 12 dollar haircuts I get once every 3 months
>apartment utilities
>medical bills
>insurance of different types, but especially fucking auto insurance
>the ability to buy something nice once in a while.

Meanwhile, I'm living poor but I have a few things going for me
>Don't smoke/drink/weed/drugs/piercings/tattoos, no vices essentially
>can't afford new clothes, have to go to good will or wait for xmas/birthday
>i own my car, grandma (who is loaded with cash) helped me
>no student loan debt
>no TV whatsoever, not even basic channels, I use it for my old vidya consoles from what I was a young boy in the early 90s.
>I haven't bought a vidya game in 8 months, I buy 1, maybe 2 a year at most.
>again with the clothes, more than half are hand me downs
>my tennis shoes are going on 2 years and woefully need to be replaced
>small town, no starbucks or anything hipster
>even my smartphone is on my dad's plan, and it's a hand-me-down phone

nigger I live in small town, michigan, I live incredibly conservatively, but shit just is not getting done on 10 dollars an hour. I have no kids, no g/f/wife, and no pets, I only pay for myself and I'm desperately low on cash every single month, I have a fucking degree as well. Shit needs to change immediately.

Corporate fast food/restaurants love this. They are the only ones who are efficient enough to compete with these wage hikes. Mom & pop's have to close. Follow the $$$...

>>136502962
>ten years old: the post

>>136511771
You have exposed yourself being 14 and unemployed. I hope you get a job someday.

>>136512120
>it's the ability to ESCAPE POVERTY

The minimum wage has gone up periodically over the last 20 years. Why didn't it create wealth increases for the poorest in society? If all poor people need is a certain $/hr to escape poverty forever, why didn't raising it equate to less poverty?

>>136505823
>10% annual return, every year for 52 years
>no adjustment for inflation

You're an idiot who doesn't know anything about the stock market.

>>136512315
>Illegal as fuck wifi antenna with a 7 mile range
You are far too competent to stay a mcloser for much longer. You're going to make it.

>>136512262
Still doesn't work that way. You can have a lot of credentials over someone else, but if they like that one attribute over you, or know that person better, you won't get the position. And if you truly exceed the expectations of the job, I will bet money that you probably wouldn't be applying to that job because you'd more qualified for something higher paying. Yet you don't apply to those jobs, why? Because you'd have to compete with your peers

I work in IT, years of experience. I could get any job at retail sales, waiter, etc, but those are shit jobs that I'm overqualified for. When I try applying to jobs within my field, if I don't know the people personally, slim to none chances of me getting said job.

>>136512481
:$

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>>136511978
>>136512224
Watch out, we got some fry cooks that are triggered over here. They might throw some ketchup packets on the ground for us to slip on if we don't give them $40/hr for microwaving kids meals.

>>136504756
"Oh UBI is now in effect? Let me just add a zero at the end of everything now that everyones making $25k a year automatically"

>>136512528
You can live off of little money you just got to be smart, an empty stomach is a great IQ booster.

>>136507309
niggers haven't picked cotton in ages, who do you think it fell to?

>>136501727
Hey, you fucking retard. The cost of living has shot up since the 90s and the minimum wage has not changed since then. How dare people want a livable wage, right?

>>136512544

Indeed. Would be even lower if your shitty government wasn't protecting your ass for votes. Free market wise, fast food burger flipper would be worth 3-5 $ max.

>>136512685
You've worked for years in the industry and don't have any contacts that could recommend you for a job? Maybe you're not as good of a candidate as you think you are then.

>>136512544
>Anyone can work at a fastfood place because it requires minimum skills

Like I said, I don't think you'd be able to handle it.

You'd also be surprised about how open you think fast food is to everyone versus the reality. For an opening, about 500 people will apply and 50 will make it tops. In a few months, that number will be at half(20-30). Continuing on there will always be at least 30-80 applications on hold for a given location, and maybe 2-3 will actually be hired. And that's only when one of the people who were hired on realize they can't handle the stress and hard work of food service and resign, or under-perform and are fired.

>>136512449
>It's in no one's "interest" to pacify a bunch of lazy faggots.
So you say, until you are getting hanged on the day of the rope and your wife and children are getting raped.
>And threatening violence/repercussions against people who don't give you more money is literal extortion by definition.
No one gives a fuck about what it is. Crying "b-but this is extortion" isn't going to stop them or even make them reconsider killing you for your shit.
>The sooner these retards who don't have the capacity to adapt to the world and overcome obstacles die off, the better for all of us.
In your conceit you fail to realize that "kill that asshole and take his shit" IS an adaptation, and is a successful one depending on the environment.
Unfortunately, in such a scenario mob rule is king and no amount of "I'm richer" will save you. Unless you become a warlord or something, in which case you are still paying people to not rob you and instead rob for you.
> We don't have to do a thing for them and don't have to resort to violence we just have to be absolutely apathetic and let nature (starving, being exposed to the elements, etc) run it's course.
...He says, woefully unaware that nature includes using violence to achieve your own ends.

Not being afraid of abusing the underclass is really, really, REALLY fucking stupid. Did you completely sleep through history classes?

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We already have been having major layoffs in Canada and my province is about to increase the min wage to 15. The farmers have already pointed out that they're either going to put the increase onto the consumer or leave, balancing it against the import market is tough. Also, small towns with a pop under 1k like mine, will be dead.

>>136510552
you seem to be under the impression that i am a sack of shit SJW who does not like corporations, or that i am dirt poor living in a hovel or something and i am waging class warfare. you are incorrect. again, i am only arguing for a fair, livable wage that people will be able to rise up out of poverty with, if they are as you put it, so determined and blah blah blah. where is the argument here? the wages paid currently are fucking garbage. people cannot have any of this personal growth or improvement if they are forced to give away every red cent of their paycheck to simply EXIST, only to go right back out to the same shit job and do it again day after day. that is fucking ludicrous, this is a 1st world country.

but what do i expect from you faggots, we have people starving and dying on the streets and no one gives a shit. you treat asking for a wage increase is like asking scrooge mcduck to give up his lucky dime. you are selfish pieces of shit, all of you who think that way.

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>>136506263
>you are the problem. no one should be forced to live without any of that. do you want everyone wearing rags and burlap sacks and walking around barefoot? what the fuck is wrong with you?

A minimum wage job should be just that, the bare fucking minimum. If you can afford food, and a place to live, that is what a minimum wage job should give you.
You want more shit? work more,
You want to go to school? pay for it.
You want to see a doctor? pay for that too.
The world owes you nothing, and this entire generation of self entitled spoiled toddler man children are going to destroy what others have spilled blood trying to build.

>>136512706
come on man have a heart
these people have "skills"

>>136513082
>Not being afraid of abusing the underclass is really, really, REALLY fucking stupid.
/thread desu famalam

>>136513120
>If you can afford food, and a place to live, that is what a minimum wage job should give you.

So you mean about $15 an hour?

>>136511288
I have a burger shop. How much do you get paid now? Maybe $8/hr? I'll pay you $4.50 and you'll only ever pick up a spatula and you're work space is about two feet wide. How's that tickle you? Have you ever done anything in your life but complain? Maybe even just make g your bed in the morning. That requires you to move all your dirty laundry to probably the floor, putting your laptop and Xbox controller away, putting your comic books away, finding your pillows and putting them neatly at specifically the head of the bed, then your sheet nice a d tucked in all 4 corners, THEN that heavy blanket on top and making it straight and rinkle free. Now your bed is made but you had to do so many other tho grammar, goodness that's a lot to handle.

>>136510642
Small business like Apple and Netflix and Starbucks yeah.

>>136513009
Dude, a dumb dog could work in fast food. I've done retail before, it's mindless. It's literally just performing the menial tasks that come to you. This is why there are so many applications for fast food places because anyone can do it, of course stores will be selective with that many applicants.

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>>136513082
So your position boils down to
>We need the big government to protect us from the meanie business owners and pay us a liveable wage
but when the "Revolt of the Fry Cooks" happens
>that same big government won't be able to protect you meanie business owners who fit the bill for most of that big government in the first place
Keep up your fairy tales, son. I'm going to have another glass of champagne and laugh at your impotence because, you sir, are a literal retard with no grasp on reality.