How exactly is fascism right wing?

>>136446093
Political ideology is a little more complicated than left/right wing you know

Theoretically fascism is right-wing because of traditional beliefs that tend to go with it, like anti-suffrage, moralism, etc.

>>136446093
Mussolini started out as a socialist. The reason because it's considered right wing, is because fascist ideologues considered themselves right wing, albeit very distant from conservativism or monarchism, which they thought belonged to the past

there is anarchism and authoritarianism.

Right wing is authoritarian.

>>136446093
Because they're National Socialist

>>136446187
are you going to post this in every thread

>>136446093
fascism is right wing because it promotes/maintains hierarchy, which is the opposite of anarchy, which is left wing in the classical definition sense no matter what memecaps will tell you

>>136446093

>How exactly is fascism right wing?

It's not, people who actually understand what fascism is would consider it radically centrist.

Modern scholars consider it right-wing because of its social conservatism, but that is their opinion, not a hard fact.

>>136446152
More of a Moebius Strip than polar opposites

Mussolinis fascist party governed with the approval of the monarchy. Basically those welfare policies were the compromise the old aristocracy had to make to prevent the communists from total revolution.

Basically fascism was meant to recall the practices of ancient Rome, which certainly wasn't liberal in any sense of the word.

The issue was that Mussolini dreamt of military conquest like his forefathers, but the Italian officer Corp was full of incompetent and corrupt fools.

>>136446152
I guess that's kinda what i'm going for.

Communism isn't called a left wing belief according to dictionaries, but it's traditionally considered a left wing thing.

Then the question becomes. We have left/right wing, and most of the world accepts things like social programs are left wing and less regulations are right wing. Right?

But what is the fundamental diffrence between wings anyway?

>>136446367
Lol
Right and left are to do with invidualism vs state-ism
The authoritarian dynamic exists within both.
Try and tell me that Communism isn't authoritarian

>>136447339
>But what is the fundamental diffrence between wings anyway?

How much of the tax money should go to social programs and how much should go to the military (maybe how much tax money should be taken to begin with)(difference of opinion on what taxes should be, and what laws should be)

>>136447472
has there not been strong statism since the first civilizations, kingdoms and cities?

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>>136446152
it's not called the third position for nothing.

Fascism is centrist to center left economically

It's the militaristic/social stuff where it gets right wing

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>>136446093
Facism and National Socialism are basically born from the same roots as Bolshevism. They are jewish created political notions for what happens after a society reaches peak socialist progression.

That's it.

The reason the nazi's and the communists hated each other so fucking much was because they believed in the same shit but different outcomes for it.

People completely forget this.

This is what gets me about neonazi's here. Sure hitler wasn't as bad as people thought and the holocaust literally did not happen, but he was a socialist. He created mass welfare for women, nationalized industry and war creation and his economy would not function without at least regularly being in a state of war. Much the same as the soviets.

>>136449055
this its just the social aspect that is rightwing everything else isnt as another anon said mussolini was a socialist and a marxist

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>>136446093
>It's another anon thinks "right wing=Laissez-faire capitalism, Left wing=state intervention" episode

>>136446093
Perception of what's right and left changed.
Nowadays leftism includes open borders and whoring yourself out to foreign cultures that hate your gut so any ideology that cares about their own people primarily is not considered to be left wing anymore.

>>136449289
>left wing is not racist
>right wing is racist
>Yeah that's the difference between them my professor told me so
Fuck off you fucking child.
Left wing is authoritarian state control and right wing is individual control leaning toward anarchism.
Go back. No no no. No no... Hold on. Stop typing child. Stop typing little boy. Here. Here there's a library nearby, no no no stop typing little wimp. Here go to a library, the books there are free. Yes yes, mommy loves you, now go there go there and read a fucking book you little cunt.

>>136449196
>mussolini was a socialist and a marxist
He was in his youth. But he had abandoned it when he founded fascism.
Marxism is about erasing hierarchies and Fascism is the opposite off that

>>136446093
Everything evil is right wing and fascism is evil.
Therefore fascism is right wing.

Same with national socialism, it might have been called socialism but it is evil and therefore right wing.

I hope all your questions were answered.

>>136449445
who said anything about race you nigger?
>Left wing is authoritarian state control and right wing is individual control leaning toward anarchism.
so the old school conservatives, aristocrats and monarchists where all leftists?
Anarchism was invented by leftists and was asociated with leftism until Libertarians hijacked it.
>Hold on. Stop typing child. Stop typing little boy. Here. Here there's a library nearby, no no no stop typing little wimp. Here go to a library, the books there are free.
nice projections

>>136446093
You know that Mussolini was born and raised as a socialist and that was until 1915, a socialist.

Was kicked out of the party because he wanted Italy joining WWI to gain austrian land (that's what really happened later)

>>136447339
Jordan Peterson talked about the fundamental difference being a psychological approach to borders, both literal and metaphorical. Right wing wants borders to protect the valuable shit they already have, left wing wants to break down the borders to explore possibilities and find riches in the unknown.

>>136449672
>so the old school conservatives, aristocrats and monarchists where all leftists?
YES YOU FUCKING RETARD
Monarchists are leftists you dumb fucking retarded little wimp cunt child!
Why do you think the founding fathers the literal birth of right wing politics rebelled against state control you dumb fucking nigger cunt.
Holy fucking shit child, boy, kid, go read a fucking book. Go READ A BOOK YOU LAZY LITTLE WIMP.

Because leftist intellectuals are the ones who decide what is right or left wing.
This is why the also like to conflate right wing capitalism with "right wing" fascism and nat soc.

The treatment of inequality is what makes fascism right wing.Opinions on inequality of opportunities and outcomes are what divides the political spectrum. The farthest of the far left believes that all equality of outcome and opportunity is good for the species and the farthest of the far right believes that all inequality of outcome and opportunities is good for the species.

>>136446093
You asking that as if leftists use critical thinking or study history from objective sources.

They assume it's right wing because fascists and national socialists strongly opposed communism, which has been embrace by the radical left.

Especially with rise of nationalism on the modern right, and globalism on the left, which parallels the fascism and Natsocs were highly nationalistic, while communism focuses more on being a global movement.

Tldr, leftists are ignorant and see coincidental similarities as ideological roots

>>136446093
Well you see this is the problem with the binary classification of right and left wing. When you find a complicated ideology like fascism, you can't really say it's either or. Not to mention these terms are used relatively and many different definitions exist depending on who you ask. Nonetheless, if I had to choose which side it leans towards the most I would say it ultimately leans to the right given its proclivity towards order, hierarchy, tradition and authority which are quintessential right wing values. Economically, it's quite ambiguous. Basically, fascists aren't particularly squeamish about using the state to skew market outcomes but they aren't ideologically committed to any one particular economic approach. They would say that they choose whatever happens to work best for the nation at a given point in time, as they perceive it. I recommend "The Doctrine of Fascism" which was written by Giovanni Gentile and Mussolini. It's quite a short essay which can be found online for free and it should give you a quick rundown on fascism as defined by the Italians who really got the ball rolling with it in the 20s.

>>136446093
A fascist doesn't try to control the economy as a communist would. The communist uses heavy regulation while the fascist gives certain industries an incentive to boost productivity.

>>136450069
Answers to the questions in order
>Because industrialists aren't idiots and would rather appease Hitler than be banned
>See above
>Because Ford hated Jews
>No it wasn't, they took over industry. Privatization happened after the Nazis, e.g. Volkswagen aka the People's Wagon becoming a private company.
>Because he ran an authoritarian one-party state, one which also expelled monarchists, libertarians, Catholics, etc
>See above
>See above
>See above
>Price controls are socialist you dumb fuck
>This point is a legitimate point to argue that Hitler had some right-wing conservative values, particularly social ones. Nothing to do with capitalism.
>Probably because they kissed his ass
>Define "ally", more like capitulate. Also, members of the SDP and KDP participated in the German communist revolution, something Hitler saw as Jewish.
Easy

>>136446093
>Genuinely curious on what makes Communism Left wing and Fascism right wing.
Fascism was never right wing, dummy. Large controlling centralized states are a part of left wing ideologies.

>>136446093
It's not and never was right wing, it is fundamentally designed to harmonise the left-right polarity. But it moves a left wing socialist towards the right, so for lefties it appears right wing.

>>136446367
Blatantly wrong. Socialism is about the government controlling everything in your life. In what universe is anarchism on the same side as that? Anarchism is closer to right-wing ideology in terms of the size of government. Edgy teenagers like socialism and anarchism, but they're not even remotely similar styles of government except that retards think they'll work.

>>136449055
>>136449196
Wrong again, a strong sense of nationalism is not a right-wing exclusive ideology. In fact, socialism can't work without a strong sense of nationalism. That's why the leaders put their faces everywhere and the people are forced to treat them as a living god. That's why they have to censor outside ideas.

>>136449106
Most of the so-called "alt-right" are actually socialists. Is it ironic they're just openly racist members of the hardcore left?

>>136449532
lmao

>>136449832
This is true. However, in Hitler's case (I don't know much about Shitaly), his idea was less full-on socialism and more state-run capitalism.

>>136449865
Nope. The far sides of both ends have low IQs, but essentially they believe the same thing. The far left wants equality by forcing it on them with laws that restrict freedoms for some to make sure all can benefit, while the far right wants equality through uniformity (think traditional Asian society).

>>136451062
>The far sides of both ends have low IQs
I was with you until this. While it is true that utter dregs are often attracted to extreme, radical, outsider movements, they also tend to attract eccentric intellectuals. See Jonathan Bowden.

>>136451062
the end goal off leftist anarchism is to abolish the state so that people will magically organize themself in comunitarian democracies and workers collectives.
They think hierarchies are artificial and uphold by the state, thats how they differ from libertarians who thinks hierarchies are natural and often thinks that the state prevents those natural hierarchies.

>>136451062
And to add to this:>>136451217, have you read any of Trotsky or Lenin's writings? While I disagree with the fundamentals of their ideology, there's no denying they were gifted thinkers and prolific writers. The same can be said for thinkers on the radical right side of the spectrum like Carlyle, Evola and our own modern day thinker, Moldbug. You might not agree with their thoughts but it's clear they are on the right side of the IQ bell curve.

>far right wants equality through uniformity
That's nonsense I'm sorry. This poster's explanation on right/left approaches to equality is correct: >>136449865

>>136451217
I have no idea why intelligent people fall for dumb shit. Some kind of psychological shit went wrong for them at some point.

Maybe it's a challenge for them.
>I'm smart, I can come up with good reasons for bad ideas.

I mean, Jung believed in astrology.

>>136451395
So they're not anarchists, they're just socialists.

>>136450372
This is probably the most accurate reason why Hitler and Stalin hated each other. While Stalin was struggling to feed his vast empire, instead of utilizing all that labor force, Hitler was able to create the most powerful army on earth (at that time) while under sanctions, in an economic downturn, with a tiny country with limited natural resources.

The first thing the socialists in Russia did when they took over was to kill anyone with money. Smart move, now all the intelligent, capable people are dead and you're left with the starving masses too stupid to even feed themselves.

>>136451612
They are intelligent, but they're misguided and wrong. Maybe in 1900 their ideas sounded great, but they couldn't have possibly imagined the scale of economic growth that occurred in the next 100 years. To them, the workers of their time were sitting around in sweat shops doing tedious things they couldn't take pride in. Today, robots do that shit.

>That's nonsense I'm sorry. This poster's explanation on right/left approaches to equality is correct: >>136449865
Maybe on hard left college campuses, but not in reality.

>>136446093
There is no Left & Right and political compasses..
That scheme was invented by kikes as part of divide & conquers tactics, because someone who believe that can accuse other who had different belief as muh left, muh right etc..
Actually there is only Nationalism & Internationalism(Globalism)

A YouTuber I watched said it best: fascism is super saiyan socialism.

It's called right winged because it's easy to label it that way when opposed to communism.

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It isn't
It relies on the economic principle of Dirigisme
Facism is left wing

Of course, the wikipedia article will skew the fuck out of this point (pic related)

>>136451744
>So they're not anarchists, they're just socialists.
it was them who coined the term anarchism.
too just suddenly claim libertarianism/ancaps is true anarchism and that the left anarchists
are not anarchists is like saying fascism is about individualism and Mussolini wasn't a real fascist

>>136446093

Europe is socialist or socialist-lite all over.

So, it's progressive socialist or conservative socialist that make up their left and right.

Whereas "we" know that right means more individual freedom and left means less (more state is left)

>>136451612
Furthermore, I'd like to also point out that when those writers were espousing their ideas, the workers of the world were genuinely being bent over and raped. But again, they couldn't see the rise of industrialization. They were convinced this is how life would be forever unless something dramatic changed.

They couldn't see computers taking over simplistic jobs.

If these people were alive today, would they look at the average worker and think "wow, what a terrible life?" Would it inspire them to write nonsense about communal societies?

If they saw their ideas cause the deaths of millions and the collapse of would-be great societies, would they still push for even MORE socialism?

>>136452064
I usually use the analogy of government as a bucket of paint

Apply government liberally or conservatively

>>136446093
>>136450490

>>136446093
It isn't.

Mussolini saw Fascism as a pure form of Socialism. His black shirts took to the streets just as AntiFa does now.

AntiFa is what it hates. They are just too stupid to realize it.

fascism is 3rd position

>>136452156
I agree, there were at times quasi-sociopathic tendencies to some of these seemingly soft, nerdy left wing theorists and a total commitment to their theory, even in the face of mass deaths. Doesn't mean they weren't extremely gifted in some areas. Intelligence can manifest itself it different ways you know. You can be extremely gifted in some areas and pants on head retarded in others. You can know a little about a lot or a lot about a little.

The only way politics makes sense in terms of left and right is if you use an authority/ liberty axis, like political compass does. Though even that has flaws as some movements are difficult to place on a graph

I like to show it to normies so they can at least understand that the term "far right" is retarded, and that there is more to that side than authoritarian religious cucks, corps and warhawks. I have no respect for anyone that hasn't at least a cursory knowledge of each major philosophy/ideology

>>136446093
If you where raised in a north american education system you were lied to kek

>>136452156
>If these people were alive today, would they look at the average worker and think "wow, what a terrible life?"
Theodor Adorno certainly did. For him comfortable middle-class, bourgeois America was hell on earth.

>>136452704
>the term "far right" is retarded, and that there is more to that side than authoritarian religious cucks, corps and warhawks.
Especially since all of those things can and usually are left wing.

>authoritarian
Every single socialist state that has ever existed. Even if you look at the left in Western societies today, they're censoring more and more what you can do and say. Try to criticize Muslims on twitter in the UK. I dare you.
>religious cucks
Socialism is a religion to these people, since they're Godless heathens. When you don't have God, your alliance turns to the state. That's why they're so fanatical about it. It consumes them.
>warhawks
No socialist has ever caused World War 2 or threatened nuclear annihilation in a Cold War. Ever.

>>136452951
The left stands for either regression of established norms or aiming for egalitarianism

I think you may be getting mixed up, we all know the left has it's cancer but all the modern establishment cancer is auth right. I wouldn't get butt hurt about it, you should be against both

And don't forget this is all relative, when the established norms shift, so will every ideology and where it is placed

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>>136446093

>>136453351
I think YOU may be getting mixed up. You're under the impression that authoritarianism is right wing when in reality it's neither left nor right but is instead a tool either side can and will use.

And when you say "all the modern establishment cancer is auth right" you show me two things.
>1. You don't understand this is only true in America. Your "right wing" is so fucking liberal it's disgusting. And on top of that, most of the world is left-leaning which is why they got so buttmad about the Paris Climate Accord.
>2. You're an anarchist.

But you're right
>this is all relative, when the established norms shift, so will every ideology and where it is placed
except regressives have been pushing the same agenda for at least 100 years now and if that's the case, I guess these norms don't change much.

>>136449106
He wanted to nationalize the heavy industry, but he didn't do it. And Holocaust literally did happen.

In Italy we have an old saying, neither left or right but fascist.

The true hard core fascists see themselves in some other sphere. Also remember that many fascists Who helped Franco out in Spain felt they were fighting on the wrong side. As did many of the Germans, Adolf Galland in his biography admits to this and says they were many like him.

>>136453689
>You're under the impression that authoritarianism is right wing
Wrong, read my posts. Didn't read the rest of yours because you're a dumbass

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>>136454103
I've triggered the anarchist lmao

Too bad a few posts back you said >>136452704
>I like to show it to normies so they can at least understand that the term "far right" is retarded, and that there is more to that side than authoritarian religious cucks, corps and warhawks. I have no respect for anyone that hasn't at least a cursory knowledge of each major philosophy/ideology
and then proceeded to not have even a cursory knowledge of the philosophy/ideology.

>>136446093
OP Fascism is not right wing, it is anticommunist and anticapitalistic, commonly known as "third position" or "third way"

>>136454541
this is the correct definition.

>>136454234
I have no idea says the guy who thinks if he says that the left starts wars that neocons aren't on the right...

I've triggered the retard

>>136446093
All these fucking ignorant answers...

Right wing = power in government controlled by smaller number of people than it currently is
Left wing = power in government controlled by larger number of people than it currently is

Take your current government. Are you trying to give more power to fewer people? You're right-wing. Are you trying to empower people who previously had little power? You're left-wing.

That's what those terms mean. It's the only thing those terms mean. Why is fascism right wing? Because it tries to consolidate power in the hands of fewer people than a democracy does.

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>>136454735
Okay, I can see our discussion is turning into you just plugging your ears and saying LALALALALA so I'm gonna just stop replying to you after this.

But when did I say "neocons aren't on the right?" Please point that out to me. I believe they call that a strawman. Anyways, nice talking to you anarchist. I learned a few things about inconsequential "thinkers" from history because of your obsession with your religion.

>I've triggered the retard

Aww I know bb, but don't be so hard on yourself.

>>136454941
So you're saying the communist party of China is right wing?

You're saying Cuba is right wing? I'm confused by your overly-simplistic definition.

You even started off with
>All these fucking ignorant answers...

What would you say to libertarians, who are trying to reduce overall government power and give it to fewer people?

>>136454961
Your first reply was denial, and I'm no anarchist dipshit

Dumb American

>>136455164
It's not overly-simple. It's what those terms mean.

They are simple terms.

China's government is modeled to be a left-wing government. Instead, it ended up an ultra-right dictatorship. Same thing with Cuba. Same thing with Nazi Germany. They were sold as being the ultra-left. They functioned as the ultra-right.

It isn't an oversimplification: it's explaining things to you that aren't very complicated.

>>136454035

To be fair to Franco, he wasn't really a Fascist. Sure he ran an authoritarian state but it was a malleable one that had great respect towards religion. He was largely a conservative.

The Falange were the Fascists in Spain and their leader Rivera was executed at the start of the Civil War.

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>>136455164
>What would you say to libertarians, who are trying to reduce overall government power and give it to fewer people?
>>136455297
>It isn't an oversimplification: it's explaining things to you that aren't very complicated.

Okay, anon.

>>136454941
Very embarrassing post my friend, I would delete it if I were you.

>>136454941
what liberal shit hole are you from? your answer is literally retarded.
your talking about the difference between a republic and a democracy
in a republic people elect officials to vote for the people, while in a democracy the people vote for everything directly

communism is run by a dictator, just to prove you wrong in the simplest terms possible

>>136455390
>>136455417
Sorry that you guys are all too stupid to read books.

>>136455297

Sounds like your definitions are retarded mate.

Every Communist country in history has relied upon an extensive police state to enforce the governing ideology.

>>136446093
In democracies fascism is seen as a bad thing and those in power want the public to see the opposition as bad guys. The left is currently in power so obviously they want us to see fascism as a central part of the right.

>>136455438

Yeah, nah, you're a cunt.

>>136449865
I feel I need to clarify this further by stating that I am not using some spectrum taught to me by a leftist college - I use Julius Evola's own outlook on the subject. He believed that the most far right position was in fact not fascism but a caste system.Evola viewed himself farther to the right than fascism was.The caste system is the ultimate right wing end of the spectrum because under it hierarchy (and thus inequality) is absolute and set in stone forever.In that sense traditionalism is the true pariah of the political positions because it is unacceptable by modernity itself, regardless if it is communist,democratic or even fascist. Fascism and conservatism are seen as traditionalism lite which is why they are demonized.

>>136455753

Are many Bulgarians openly Fascist?

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Fascism is a third position ideology. True nationalism and true socialism will always go hand in hand.

Ok here's how this works. If your in Germany in the 1935 your options are pretty much communism on the hard left or National Socialism which is communism but allows a certain amount of private ownership and keeps business in private hands but business must operate to serve the state so National Socialism is right of the hard left.

If you compare National Socialism to a British or American Conservative in 1935 then National Socialism is on the ultra hard left.

Last news outlet you'd expect to publish this because it is so left wing but read this Hitler was a Marxist http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

>>136456162
https://archive.is/LvMJx

>>136446093
Because it's evil you fucking fascist

>>136449750
stop putting the terms "left" and "right" on a pedestal. How policies have been described as left- or right-wing throughout the last two centuries has shifted continuously.
Back during the French revolution, right-wingers would be those who supported a constitutional monarchy with reduced powers, while left-wingers would be those who wanted to abolish the hierarchy that came with feudalism, and wanted freedom for the masses (read: the bourgeoise/middle class).

Its just more right than socialism and communism. Doesnt really even mean its right of center for us standards. Although depending who is running the show it can go a ways right of center but also a ways left. Typically its pretty center though. Its all perception, a lot of places in europe are so left leaning that something to us in the us that would be considered center is considered far right by them.

>>136446093
It is very close to the original conservatism that is monarchism. The old left wing were liberals that wanted democracy and freedoms.

>>136446093
Fascism is often associated with the right-wing because of some of the distinct tendencies of fascist governments, like the military culture, traditionalism and heritage fags. Don't get caught up in the right/left rhetoric when talking about fascism and communism though, since the only thing "fascist" states in WW2 had in common was their hatred of communism. Ask yourself, what do Franco, Hitler and Mussolini have in common? Not much other than a few broad ideas; they all harbour hatred for communism though. This is why it is argued that fascism is a non-ideology, since it was a reaction to communism during the run-up to the war. Mussolini's way of governing involved a lot of state intervention, yet at the same time campaigned for some quasi neo-Roman empire, which we see in the logo of the party its self. Hitler's manifested into an amalgamation of non-religious(?) pagan spirituality kind of thing, which I could obviously explain better but I don't know very much about it.
Just have a look at the general models of government for the 3 states I mentioned and you will see very few consistencies with what a lot of people here like to think is a codified idea.

>>136455893
Nope.

>>136446093
Government is always evil, no level of homogeneity will change this.

>>136446152
Pretty much. Fascism is about the nation and that means investing in the people and infrastructure of the nation. Most of those are "left" but you can pay for them by getting rid of second and third world immigrants who hoover up tax dollars from actual citizens.

>>136446093
>hey guys we want a strong state to protect our agenda
>but it shouldn't have any actual power or anything because that's COMMUNISM

lmfao @ your brain

>>136446093
T H I R D W A Y

>>136446093
in a nutshell,
right wing = traditionalism
left wing = change

>>136450735
Hitler had little care about economics
the only thing he mentions in his book is and end to debt slavery
stop being retarded

>>136461413
right wing = family, traditions
left wing = communes, perpetual revolution

>>136449969
rare checkd

>>136461510
Yet one of the biggest reasons he gained so much power was by reviving the German economy.
Seriously, don't you know any history at all?

>>136446093
Fascism is right wing because it is nationalist - it is concerned with the prosperity and happiness of it's one ethnic people. It attempts to achieve this by promoting traditional values and removing parasitic elements of the society, like smaller ethnic groups who live via extortion and usery(typically jews/gypsies/blacks)