Why can't libertarians answer this very simple question:

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>PAY FOR MY ROADS!

>>136353781
We aren't anarchist, we want a limited government who does fund roads, the three branches of government, and emergency services

>>136353781
A corporation will charge a subscription fee to those who use the roads to pay for their maintence and construction

>>136353781
Please explain why i am taxed 35% of my income and all the roads and sidewalks in my city are absolute crumbling falling apart shit.

Checkmate doucebag.

>>136354135
>>136354151

Both of these are possible solutions. >Fucking hurr durr who will build MUH roads we need to steal money from people to pay for MUH roads.
/thread

>>136353781
You mean to address AnCap.

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>libertarianism is anarchism thread No#3447255

>>136354135
Ding ding ding

Government is for utilities and infrastructure and then gets the fuck out of the way of the market

>>136353781
>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
The same people who do now: private companies.
Governments typically don't build that shit.
The government pays them and last I checked it is possible to pay for shit without having government do it for you.

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fuck did I tell you

>>136354135
>>136354272
>>136354275
If you claim to be a libertarian, but want socialist roads, you are not a libertarian. You're advocating for a mixed economy with different bounds Democratic socialists.

There is no objective difference between genuine libertarianism and anarchism. They are the exact same thing under different names. The difference between libertarians and anarchists is that they give different reasons for why they hate government. The end result is the same though.

1. public roads are not built efficiently. Houses are all over the place, and roads often go nowhere. all because public funds are used, so wasting money is ok.
2. roads are not difficult to make. all roads are made by private companies, regardless.
3. a fully private road system would probably be designed and built more intelligently. roads that were uneconomical to maintain would be left to die, and people would have to move and be in more urban living arrangements, only the wealthy could live in the wilderness and have super nice roads which they'd all pitch in to keep good.

>>136355028
>You're advocating for a mixed economy with different bounds Democratic socialists.
roads are not redistributive

>>136353781
>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
whomever has the most to gain, usually some roman types

please examine the works of Henry George and understand that China has been following his economic model for almost a hundred years which is killing us with our inferior Keynes nonsense religion

>>136355028
tfw libertarians don't realize
private companies already build the roads,
the government puts jobs up for bid, lowest bid gets it.
utilities are municipal or public-private partnerships who albeit are lazy, are not any lazier than the average office worker.
The government decides what and where something should be built and collects the toll
The roads are bad because roads don't buy votes. Even when a party passes a bill to fix roads it doesn't change voting patterns. Infrastructure funds have been raided to buy votes.
In michigan they were trying to pass an infrastructure bill and democrats were trying to tie fucking teachers pensions to the issue because they were trying to buy votes.

>>136355431
Unless you plan to tax people purely on their own road use, yes it is.

>>136355247
>efficiency

This is the libertarian fallacy. It actually doesn't matter what is more efficient. This is about ethics. This is about whether or not we can have a system that allows predatory road owners to abuse their power as potentially the only way to reach some place.

You do realize there is already a marketplace in place here? As, >>136355800 put it, private companies are competing for the government choosing (paying) them to build the roads.The difference here is in whether you want 1 buyer (the people) and many sellers (companies) or many buyers (the people) and 1 seller (a company). Preferring the latter to the former means you are a crony capitalist shill.

>>136355247
>how are public roads(built by private companies) not built efficiently? studies?
>what percentage of roads go nowhere's? define nowhere's, farming, mining, forestry, conservation, tourist all use those roads that go "nowhere's"
>would probably? Of course the government is often is inept, so are businesses aka bankruptcy.

the market obviously dictates the construction of off road vehicles, you fucking moron

In a History Channel series called "The Men Who Built America" it was highlighted that men like Chase, Ford, and other business men built roads and bridges because they needed to move their products and get buyers to their products.

>>136358474
A free market also consolidates wealth. It creates dynasties. At some point, some people will own all property and rent it to the serfs.

>>136359298
actually the diametric opposite is true

>>136358858
Of course they did. Nobody denies that there are economic incentives for companies to build into infrastructure. The issue is that there is also economic incentive for them to be shitheads to those with less and the environment. There needs to be regulation so we get more the former rather than the latter.

Libertarianism has no concept of pragmatism which is why it doesn't work any better than communism.

>>136353781
alright we keep fraction of taxes to fund roads and sidewalks, anything else you want?

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>>136353781
according to Pennis, it is morally justifiable to force someone to do labour against their will (i.e bake cakes for gay) so the answer would be, anyone that slights the homosexuals will be forced into building the roads.

just have a steady supply of gays harassing christians, and you can keep this up indefinitely, and since Pennis also wants hyperinclusive mass democracy with open borders, if any of the native christian group dies out from their slavery building the roads.

just take any of the imported groups, i heard South America is christian so just have the gays antagonize them to get more workers for the roads

and if anyone says this violates the NAP, you are wrong, Penn Jilette said it doesn't

God will build it, check mate trash man!

>>136359411
What is the "diametric" opposite?

>>136353781
>the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country
yes, I soundly remember consenting to and the physical signing of a contract at birth...

No you fucking retard there is no "social contract" I dont consent to filling your needs at gunpoint and telling me that it is my birthright to do so. Fuck you saged

**Fruit Smugglers Build a Road over the Russia-Belarus Border Overnight**

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/fruit-smugglers-build-a-road-over-the-russia-belarus-border-overnight-110606.html

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>>136353781
>lolbertarianfags devote life to retarded political philosophy
>someone asks then about roads
>realize their entire life was a lie

all libertarian/deregulation fags should be forced to go to Beijing and spend a week outside with no mask.

>>136353781
kill yourself shill rat

>>136354204
All the roads and sidewalks in your city can't be fixed with $3,500

>>136353781
>This is an important question, and without a good answer libertarianism is worthless.

Nobody... we don't need it. Everywhere you travel will be private property so you should not be there anyway

>>136354414
So who will pay? And who will use? Will others use for free? Dumb shit.

>>136359585
-Publicly-funded healthcare.
-Environmental and health regulations on businesses.
-no private prisons

>>136354204
Because you live in America.

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>>136354384
>Government is for utilities and infrastructure and then gets the fuck out of the way of the market
If you think it's even possible for a body of corruptable human beings to remain chained when you've already conceded to them the codified 'right' to violate people's property rights, you are FUCKING RETARDED. The minarchist delusion is that they can harness the evil of the state for their arbitrarily selected ends and keep it from leaking into every aspect of life. This is a patent absurdity, and one only need look at the history of the United States to see why.
Stop being lazy. Study stateless defense and law and start actually being philosophically consistent. Otherwise, you're just statists pretending to love liberty.

>>136353781
It's hilarious how people here think that regulation is inherently wrong. Without regulation we would be eating the most adulterated food you can imagine - even more the shit that gets fed to americans. Also, we would be living in horribly poluted cities, not just in terms of smog but noise and light pollution at unprecedented levels. Regulation is very important you stupid libertarian retards.

>>136359928
>Socialist total government is proof that libertarianism won't work.

China is a gleaming beacon of deregulation.

>>136353781

This question has been asked and answered so many times, it's a running joke among libertarians and ancaps. There's even a subreddit called whowillbuildtheroads to mock this question.

I'm not saying that the libertarian/ancap answer is RIGHT, but if you're asking this question, it's obvious you don't have the knowledge base to even discuss the topic effectively yet.

>what about roads and sidewalks

we all have lifted trucks with stubby tires bro

>>136360439
>I NEED DA GUBBMINT TO LIVE AND TAKE CARE OF ME

literally a nigger-tier argument.

>>136359925
you're joking right? the road question is literally the easiest for anyone with an IQ >90 to answer. Even the harder ones, law and defense, only require some light reading or a sharp mind to deduce on its own.

>>136360506
You seem upset, go eat a big mac and calm yourself down

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>>136360439
Its retarded if youre yourself retarded, dont buy fucking burgers if you wanna eat healthy...

Private roads exists everywhere, its nothing weird.
Beside libertarians believe in small gov, as in military, police, law and R O A D S.

>>136360677
at least we have big macs, you spotted-dick and/or girl-kebab munching prick

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Probably private construction companies, likely the same companies that build roads today

>>136360780
those are bitch-tier libertarians. Ancaps are the only real libertarians.

>>136359665
This is a top tier reply imo

>Own a car
>Equipped with GPS toll system
>Each road you take charges a small fee to your account delivered to the owner of the road

Pretty fucking simple, just like that we eliminated the need for a war mongering police state that covertly dismantles other countries and kills millions, that was hard, stupid fucking socialist

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How can lefties even compete?

>>136359643
I'm actually surprised that Penn, a libertarian, said that, but he's almost not completely wrong here.

The issue with the typical libertarian stance is on business freedom is that it implies that the civil rights act, for instance, is not right. That is wrong. You should not be able to participate in the economy, a publicly-funded and regulated venture, while discriminating against others.

However, it's an unjustified infringement on your free speech to say that you must bake a gay cake. There is a difference between denying service to someone and refusing to express something you don't agree with. In the case of the gay cake owner, he would have made other cakes, just not a gay one. That is fine, and that's where people's right to boycott his business becomes the check, not the government.

>>136360506
He authorises the government to run things he doesn't want to have to spend his life chasing around after. Noise, light and air pollution are good examples he used, why should he have to fight every pig who gets a buck out of turning his neighborhood into a noisy, dirty shitfight?
There's checks and balances built in so the state can't infringe on his rights and he has recourse if it does.
Your post was definitely nigger tier tho.

>>136360794
What good is a vaccine if you can't force people to take it?

>>136353781
>muh roads
>muh sidewalks
into the trash you go

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>Needing (((roads)))

>>136360464
I know how much it has been asked. I just felt like illustrating why libertarianism is stupid so people don't forget.

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>"roads"

mfw

>>136360930
>who will build the roads so that hundreds of millions of vehicles can burn fossil fuels into the atmosphere just like they do today
>REEE BUT POLLUTION MUST BE REGULATED BY A CENTRAL BODY

>>136360794
>56%
>>136360780
You clearly have an exaggerated ego if you think you are immune to corporate propaganda, or that other people being unhealthy has no effect on you.

>>136353781
Invent flying cars, lol. Are you even trying?

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needing roads even once...

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>>136361018
yes, quite a success there, friendo

>>136360098

> Mommy, people who didn't pay for it are touching my stuff!

This is why government will never go away. Someone will always want to make someone else stop doing something that natural law allows, and they'll need an organized military force to do it. And as soon as it's done, the military force becomes a government enforcing whatever man-made laws it wants to.

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>>136353781
Anyone can make a road.

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MUH ROADSSSSSS

>>136354204
Niggers and Jews.

>>136353781
who built the railways and why? fuck off now

>>136361213
and literally teenagers with a truck can fix potholes as well, its neither difficult nor expensive to do.

>>136353781
Great bait.
I reckon the same people who build them now, would be simplest as they already have the expertise. When did you last see a politician with a shovel, leveling the ground or preparing the asphalt?
Politicians are not needed for the construction of roads.

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>driving on roads
>not climbing 45+ degree angle

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NOTICE ME OP

NOTICE MEEEE

>>136353781
>>136355028
You are some ignorant faggots. Libertarians accept that there will be a government, and view it as a necessary evil - to fill a power vacuum that would otherwise exist. Once you have a government, things like roads can be one of its purposes, though few libertarians would say that there can't be private (toll) roads. An idea that few libertarians would balk at: Have a fuel tax that is earmarked for road building. The more fuel you use, the more likely that you are going to use those roads and put wear and tear on them, and thus the more you pay for them. As it stands now, fuel taxes typically go into general funds and can be used for whatever.

I think car and insurance companies have a bit of an incentive

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Hop in OP!

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>op in the backround with his inhaler

I will

>>136361598

The more regulations you have, the more police you need to enforce them.

This is why populist governments always turn into police states. Only capitalism can accurately allocate resources without requiring a dictatorial regulatory burden.

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>>136353781
libertarians hate roads

They fear construction workes may step on a holy snale so they dont build them

>>136353781
they would build themselves because muh demand n'free market, silly

>>136361727
>no roads
>implying car manufacturers would exist without roads
>implying car insurance firms would exist without car manufacturers

>>136353781
>the social contract you signed at birth

protip: you're an idiot

>>136361393
Government grants to railroad companies for transportation and trade. The Federal Railroad Administration ensures our safety on the railroad, also payed for by our taxes.

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>>136362260
So the insurance companies AND the car manufacturers have an incentive for roads to be built?
you just added a solution thinking it was a rebuttal

>>136360887
>Be road owner
>Decide to raise the charge by 5000% one day
>No one can do anything

>>136362519
and Vanderbilt said frigg off to all that and built rails privately way more efficiently then the fat subsidy whores could

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>>136353781
"I call for the complete extermination of the global roaddom!"

- Hans Herman Rothbard -chancellor of the Libertarian Party

Here's some party material:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5oiWPNYr30I

>>136353781
A libertarian society can't deal with mentally ill people, psycho/sociopaths.

>>136362782
>try raising price 5000% one day
>nobody approves the charge
>you try to take thousands of people up on violating the terms at the same time
>nobody gives a shit
>profit goes out the window
>superior businessman buys stock in your company for pennies on the dollar and institutes lower prices and terms of service that guarantee no price gouging
be living under government
>get taxed to pay for infrastructure
>the road owner is the government
>have to pay the 5000% markups because guns
>thisisfine.jpg

They have answered the question. Many times in many ways. There is no one correct way.

You might say, in your view, "Government builds roads" but that is not correct either.

>>136360439
>inherently wrong
we don't need to assume, there are plenty of real world examples

>>136360003
>one man city

How can roads be real if freedom isn't real?

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Homemade, unregulated, tax-free Hovercars, bitch.

>fuck roads

>>136360887
>lolbertarian: yea but fuel tax is oppressive! instead of paying the tax on the fuel to pay for roads I'd rather pay with my fancy gps toll. but you see its voluntary to pick what toll road I want to drive! I end up wasting more money and time driving around expensive tolls
Natural monopoly
>tolls maximized for profit not for consumer
>taxes maximized for vote buying and make work jobs.
also private companies already compete during BIDDING to build the road.
>I actually work for a private company building public roads and utilities

also for lolz
>have no money
>need to go to job to make money
>all roads private
>have to take a loan out to get to work.
>utopia

>>136354135
>We want a limited government that only does what's REALLY important.

Hey, me too! What happens if you think something is important and I don't think it is? Or if I think something is important and you don't think it is? Let's settle by you getting part of what you want, and I get part of what I want. We can rally a coalition of willing participants to determine what is "really" important. Of course, we'll need someone to understand how to implement those ideas. So let's get our coalitions together, identify our best representatives by vote, and elect them to enact those programs we regard as most important through law.

My point is that you Libertarians aren't anarchists: you're just Americans. The system you want is also known as the USA. It's just that you want to reset it with "well but not everyone should get a say and we'll reduce 'important' to the just this handful of things that a small group of us think are and no one else should get a say."

>>136363305
What if your terms mention that the price can vary from day to day?

>people believe government does anything
>they build roads!
>with out tax dollars
>they regulate markets!
>with our tax dollars
>they lobby for special interests
>with our tax dollars
>send our money to washington
>have to beg for it back at a state level
>can't afford healthcare myself
>forced to pay for health care for myself and the poor
>pay into social security
>will never see a penny of it


yes yes, the gobment solves everything

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>>136353781
GOVERNMENT DO NOT BUILD ROADS.

PRIVATE COMPANIES BUILD ROADS!

PRIVATE COMPANIES BUILD ROADS TODAY!

GOVERNMENT CALL PRIVATE COMPANIES TO BUILD ROADS!

GOVERNMENT DO NOT BUILD ROADS.

THE SAME PEOPLE WH BUILD ROADS TODAY WOULD BUILD ROADS WITH LIBERTARIAN GOVERNMENT!

Jesus FUCKING Christ - it's really not that hard to just try and think.

Just a bit.

Please.

>>136353781
Unfortunately, you can't build a civilization on libertarianism. The problem being groups of like-minded people getting together can always outperform a single person in labor. That's why your taxes are being taken because technically you're a little bitch who can't protect them from a group of people ready to fuck your shit up.

Might is right and might+fear is more fundamental humanity than lolbertariansim will ever be.

>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"

>This is an important question, and without a good answer libertarianism is worthless. There is simply no libertarian solution to natural monopolies, and that is one of the fundamental reasons libertarianism cannot work and has not ever worked.

>Libertarians may respond with nonsense like "natural monopolies don't exist in practice," which just outs the fact that they do not have a solution, and that answer itself undermines libertarianism. Libertarianism is almost purely theoretical, but suddenly libertarians become interested in what's "practical" when libertarianism is shown to be inherently and fatally flawed. The fact of the matter is, public property must exist out of the bounds generally subscribed to by libertarianism. Specifically, it needs to exist when you have a service or good that is necessary but for which a free market cannot reasonably exist.

>Otherwise, libertarians will default to the real reason why they are libertarians: selfishness. "I don't care. Taxes are stealing!" Protip: the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country. You do not own your "money." The economy is a game, rules made by Congress, and you are player in that game.

You mean Ancaps?

What is a toll road?

>>136355028
You're on like a 16 year old's level of understanding political vocabulary.

"Libertarian" is a big tent party that covers everything from (0,0) to (10,-10) on the political compasses. (10, -10) anarcho-capitalists are the ones who have a panic attack about roads.

Minarchists, people who wave the Gadsden flag, classic liberals, etc don't have any problem with the government building roads. They just want the government to be much smaller and restricted to simple things like building roads, not keeping an entire country under constant surveillance or building drone warfare armies.

>>136363270
care to elaborate?

>the social contract you signed at birth
we control your birthright goy


what are toll roads because of course libertarian means no government not limited government faggot.


who pays for OPs neet bucks and transition medication, libertarians can never answer this simple question.

>>136363628
It probably will, as it should. Charging higher rates during rush hours helps to even out traffic and prevent jams, as well as creates an incentive for people who don't need to be driving during rush hour to make adjustments to their schedules to save money. But unreasonable autistic rates simply won't be payed if the drivers believe risking violation of the rules isn't a big enough deal to justify paying exorbitant rates.

>>136353781
Another fucking retard asking dumb questions.

>Who will build the roads and sidewalks?
The people I pay to build them.
Libertarians aren't against paying for a product.
We are against taxation.
If there is a road that must be maintained and I use said road. I will help to pay for the roads maintenance.

Taxing me to pay for a town across a countryside to pave a road is flat out silly. That's a tax, that's what the government does. It steals money from you to pay for things that do not effect you.

>>136360464
This.

The "muh roads" cunts don't even have a basic understanding of an ideology they supposedly hate to even properly discuss or criticize it. Not that I would expect such a discourse from pol.

Muh Roads is the biggest meme within the libertarian community and these pathetic fucks don't even realize it when they ask the stupid question over and over again.

>>136363305
libertopia
>be uber rich
>raise price by 5000%
>did not lock customers in contract pay as go
>faggots who try and drive on my road get shot, my property faggots
>no one can get to work
>everyone goes broke
>buy everyone's houses for pennies on the dollar
>literally all my land now
>have serfs rent from me
>lower price to allow them to go to work again
>Am literally their king now
>anyone who fucks with me gets their road rights revoked
>feels good man

>>136353781
>natural monopolies
There are no natural monopolies

>>136353781
Private companies? And individual owners?

>>136353781
Pure libertarianism fails because it needs everyone else in the world to be 100% dedicated to libertarianism

>>136363878
Oh, and the reason this is an important point is because of so many people saying "you cannot have a libertarian country" as if to write off that entire chunk of ideology. Like, really? We've had Presidents before who could be members of the Libertarian party today. What you're probably meaning to say is that pure, pushed to the absolute extremes that reality can handle anarcho-capitalism would result in something like Bioshock which is probably true but so does every other system.

The one thing Libertarians understand better than anyone because they have dude weed nature is how inherently inefficient and lazy and ill-motivated most people are, so they don't even want to push their ideology to its extremes because they know that doesn't work out in practice anyways.

>>136353781
Monopolies are not as profitable because they have no incentive to innovate, be efficient, nor charge a low price for their good or services. They are inevitably taken down by hardworking innovative lower priced competitors as long as there is no law against such competition. In the dairy industry this cannot happen due to government subsidies, but in most other industries without any government intervention competition props up because the consumer will inevitably be drawn to products with a lower price tag.

>>136353781
The thousands of white people that work in construction, roadwork etc?

>>136364037
>faggots who try and drive on my road get shot, my property faggots
>checkmate libertarians, what if Genghis Khan happens!
>I don't expect any other -ism to be able to resist literal overwhelming military conquest but if you can't your entire worldview is null and void

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>>136353781
We already talked about this, kike.

You never acknowledged public rights of way or mail roads. It's been two years and you still don't.

Sage commie kike bait like this.

>>136364408
lol.
or as you say in Spain: jajajajajajajajajaja

Stop replying to kike bait.

A communist country and a libertarian country go to war. Who wins?

>>136364727
the jews

>>136364727
The Jews.

>>136364409
>understand how lazy people are
yet
>can't understand how dumb and irrational people are
>libertarians think most of the population are only slightly dumber than them, not massively dumber. it doesn't actually play out like they think

>people won't go against their interest
>communist revolutions

>Ron Paul: If heroin was legalized who here would do heroin I bet no one here would
>8 years later heroin epidemic in USA
I bet someone in that crowd did heroin

>>136364727
arms dealers
also jews

>>136363888
What do you do with people who don't want to live with others?who don't respect others properties and liberties?
Who will pay for them?

>>136364796
>>136364829

pol hive mind

>>136364976
I knew it was coming, but I still laughed when I saw it.

>>136364950
send them to /pol/
works every time

>>136364004
>The people I pay to build them.
>Libertarians aren't against paying for a product.
>We are against taxation.

Okay guys the road sucks we need a new one.
If each one of you pay a little amount every month, the road will be built and maintained.

>Taxe

>>136365217
The distinction isn't that it's a monthly payment, it's that you don't have the option to opt out, which allows the taxer to increase price and decrease efficiency. At the end of the day it's a technical argument

>>136363878
The problem with trying to soften libertarianism (that is, make it more socialist), is that libertarianism is a pure ideology that takes private property and liberty to their logical extreme, ie libertarians are autistic. This is why under the NAP if someone happens to walk onto your property without your permission, you are legally justified in killing them according to libertarians. Why? Because it's your property, and by being on it without your permission they are stealing, which is an aggressive act, and you are entitled to use whatever force necessary to defend yourself against theft.

This is also why anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism are equivalent. As soon as you accept taxes being taken without permission, you are justifying the government violating the NAP, which is just as much an AnCap axiom as it is for libertarianism in general. Then you are not actually a libertarian. You are just an economic conservative who decided to draw the line at a different point than other economic conservatives and liberals.

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>>136353781
Oh libertardians have an answer. It's just a fucking stupid one. Private enterprise will build them and then they'll all be toll roads. Because that works so well for Florida.

>>136364950
>What do you do with people who don't want to live with others
they live with whoever they like as long as it's ok with the other person.
>who don't respect others properties and liberties?
they get treated by society accordingly (i.e. lose job/respect, get cast out of society or even physical removal)
>Who will pay for them?
whoever is willing to pay them.

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>>136353781
there's a spectrum faggot. not all libertarians are bat shit crazy ancaps

>>136364727
Communism. Due to the libertarian country's open borders the communists would have already had sleeper agents through out the country waiting to strike.

>>136365558
See:

>>136365436

>>136353781
Losertarians are best ignored - all they do is muddy the waters with their pedantic arguments. If losertarianism worked, it would be implemented. They have caused massive damage to civilization, regardless

>>136365431
>road my address is on
>opt not to pay fee bc "voluntary"
>can't go anywhere's
The difference between paying fee and tax in the practical sense is zero

>>136365431
What happens if someone in the community doesn't want to pay for the road.
How you stop him from using it?

Sooo you've never driven on the EAST COAST, where ALL the major TOLL ROADS are PRIVATELY OWNED, and not built or maintained by ANY government.

Like seriously. Who the fuck invented TOLL ROADS?

Seriously, PRIVATE ROADS are the norm, GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ROADS are the newest bullshit.

FFS. Get off the roads meme retard.

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it not that this has been answered about 345983540689347583745684375068 times already.

but yeah .... so push ure communist strawman up ure leftofascist anus u subhuman piece of excrement

>>136364727
The Jews were playing both countries against each other all along. The Jews always win in the end

>>136365626
>>136365436
you can take this logic and discredit every ideology by taking it to its extreme. e.g. conservatism to fascism, liberals to communism, nationalism to nazis.

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>>136365687

> the difference between slavery and taking some job is zero


it not that this ALSO has been answered about 345983540689347583745684375068 times already.

but yeah .... so push ure communist strawman up ure leftofascist anus u subhuman piece of excrement

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>>136363616
>What happens if you think something is important and I don't think it is?
We vote.
>>136363616
>you Libertarians aren't anarchists: you're just Americans. The system you want is also known as the USA.
Nobody voted for the war on drugs, feminist campaigns or whatever.
Why cant burgers afford health care? The government over-regulated it to hell to stifle competition and protect the cronies.

The government is allowed to do shit on it's own, that is wrong.

The government should handle the bare minimum of infrastructure and physical security and not to get in the way of market doing the rest.

And the society has to be conditioned and taught to rely on itself.
Need a road where isn't one?
Pay the corportion to build it.
Or find an interested investor.

>>136365628
>They have caused massive damage to civilization
Yeah - those damned libertarian fascists invading neighbouring countries with their hordes of brainwashed army-bots.

Its happened too many times.

Ruining lives.

Never forget the aggressive invading libertarians.

>>136365741
depends on what they think is the most efficient way of doing it, charging the road fee at the gas pump is one way, say have the GPS track your movement and hours and give you the bill at the pump, the leniency on paying depends on what the owner thinks is reasonable.

>>136365527
>even physical removal

>Schyzo steal/kill
>Must be removed from society
>Luckilly someone paid cops to arrest him
>No one wants to pay the tribunal
>No one want to pay for the lethal injection
>But !
>*Scratch noise*
>People want to pay good moneyfor entertainment
>Scumbag is dragged in an arena with wild tigers, deadly traps and lasers.
>Broacasted live.

I would pay for that.

>>136359298
Hmm nope wealth disappears from the rich after several generations as the children often miss the spark which made them rich in the first place. Also mega business is inefficient and slow so get inevitably die to new agile competition. That's why corporations lobby the government for regulations

>>136366615
>psycho arena death battles broadcasted in HD
I'd invest

>>136354135
How can government fund roads if there is no taxes?

Government savings = Taxes - Government spending. Where will the money come from if taxes is removed from the equation?

>>136360439
Obviously people will just eat poison without the government

>>136353781
"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"

We've answered this thousands of times? Who builds the roads now? A company employed by the government. Without the government a private company will charge you for using the roads, just like your water/electricity company charging you for using water and electricity.

>>136363270
>A libertarian society can't deal with mentally ill people, psycho/sociopaths.

They can either try and find a job or if they cant they can go die in a gutter.
If they fuck with you kill them or send bounty hunters after them.

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>>136366854
damn, this guy can do maths and almost read english
bravo

>>136366007
The difference is that libertarianism was intended to be a pure ideology based on maximizing freedom from the start and libertarian arguments typically make that assumption. This purity is the only way libertarianism can be meaningfully distinguished from economic conservatism. Economic conservatives already argues that government is generally wasteful and that the free market is generally better. The difference is that they argue it GENERALLY is, so, while they default to preferring small government, they will make exceptions when they see fit. Same with liberalism, except in the other direction, ie a preference for government regulation, exceptions when they see fit.

>>136367099
but most ancaps are also conservatives, I don't get what you're saying

>>136365436
Actually proportional force is a key aspect of the nap you disingenuous faggot

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>>136361803
>Nissan Xterra
Jesus.

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Just posting some OC since it's relevant

>>136353781
>thinking small government = no government
>confusing libertarianism with anarchism

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>>136360439
>All food is shit
>Companies are competing each other to produce the shittiest and the cheapest food
>Demand for quality food rises
>Some company starts selling high quality food for a higher price

Invisible hand bitches.

Also I believe deregulating medicine is the solution to healthcare. Just allow the invisible hand to take care of you, cut regulations and next day you will have a vide variety of medical services that anybody could afford from absolute shithole bargain cheap to super lux that comes on a golden platter and with a blowjob, and a reasonable sevice for a reasonable price somewhere in between.

If invisible hand can feed us it can also cure us, the medicine should be just like food, from stray dog meat kebab stands to luxury restaurants.

>>136359298
It doesnt. Logistics scale very badly with size, economy of scale doesnt favor them. The huge centralized corporations right now are only possible because their transportation costs are subsidized through public roads. They also lobby for more regulation that newcomers in the market cant meet, like expensive licenses. A regulation loving state is eager to do so.

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>>136363756
And probably do it for cheaper because the govt agencies in charge of calling contractors to build the roads are usually just calling their cousin and skimming off the top while giving them inside info on what to bid. Road work is on of the most crooked industries in the U.S because of govt involvement. Look what Jon Street did to philly/Pennsylvania in general with graft and corruption with money that was supposed to be spent on bridges and roads. It's an unholy union that fucks over pretty much every citizen.

T. Contractor with friends that work as property maintainance managers for large firms that give me inside info on highest bids so I can come in just a little under and get the jobs.

>>136367348
No it isn't. NAP only says you can't initiate force, but if it's initiated against you, you are justified in taking action. It does not say how much force you are a allowed to take. And of course it doesn't, as then you're getting into the realm of subjectivity and anti-liberty, which libertarianism by construction rejects. Who decides what is proportional force, if not the property owner? You would be allowing someone else to have control over a property owner's property, which is not allowed in a libertarian society.

>>136361598
>An idea that few libertarians would balk at: Have a fuel tax that is earmarked for road building.
But we literally already have this.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwaytrustfund/

>>136353781
>Otherwise, libertarians will default to the real reason why they are libertarians: selfishness. "I don't care. Taxes are stealing!" Protip: the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country. You do not own your "money." The economy is a game, rules made by Congress, and you are player in that game


You'd make an excellent subject of the King.

>>136353781
Muh roads is retarded ''argument''.
A better question is, what will stop other countries from invading and taking what they want? Let's not even talk about armed conflict, consider this. Some people own a piece of land in Murica. Chinese call them and say ''we wud like buya this land for a 6 mirrion dorrars''. The land owners think great, they're fucking rich now, they can move to any country they want and live like kings for the rest of their life. Now China owns a piece of land in Murica. They can set up a military base there, they can do whatever the fuck they want. Then they buy more land, and more and more until Murica is mostly just China now.
How do you stop them?

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>>136353781
Libertarian here.

The government will build roads because it would be stupid not to socialize some aspects of our society. Everyone sane is a little bit socialist, and only a little.

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>>136361598
That is EXACTLY what the gas tax was implemented for you dingus. I live in a state with one of the highest gas taxes in the nation and we have like the 3rd shittiest roads in the nation.

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>>136367892
>Be me
>Step on your foot in the crowd
>You attempt to enslave me as a compensation
>The rest of the crowd sees your action as unjust and inadequate
>You get your ass whooped for violating the NAP against you

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/thread

>>136353781
Coroporations will have many options for building and maintaining roads, tolls, charging companies built on their roads, etc. the thing is if the consumers have a need for it it will be provided and consumers will do what they need to to move around

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>>136353781
lolbertardians !== ancrap

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>>136368088
And who do you think owns like 60% of our agriculture through government collusion? CHINA!
Any "libertarian" that isn't for protecting American interests isn't a libertarian. This new-wave libertarianism is fucking retarded and doesn't resemble libertarianism at fucking all.

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>>136353781
>open a business
>road monopoly blocks the entrance to my store with barricades
>need to upgrade to business class road plan
>get the small business plan
>they install a turnstile which lets in max 20 people per hour
tell me one reason why road neutrality is bad again?

>>136353781
>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"

No one. They are an artifact of oppression. You could also ask who will build the jails and aircraft carriers and drones. Who will build the treasuries, fortifications ....

These are all structures whose true intent is to subdue the populace. I don't want them.

>>136360439
Most of those problems arise due to goverment interference. There are large companies whos goal it is to keep YOU healthy and the costs of healthcare low. Those are insurance companies. But huge regulations cause then to be ineffective and expensive. They cant discriminate in prices. So they cant offer you a cheap insurance if you are a young healthy non smoker. You are a black box instead so they charge much more. That causes people to have no insurance at all. But only insurance companies can negotiate lower prices for medication and surgery, they are not in a life threatening situation. And shitty implemented goverment insurance doesnt give a fuck about costs. Goverment never cares about costs its not their money afterall.

>>136353781
>What about paid roads ?

>>136353781

I didn't sign shit at birth and I'd bring the whole system down and have society collapse if you try to force any of that nonsense on me.

I'm not really a libertarian though. just a reactionary.

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>>136353781
It's like arguing with a girl who escaped the Soviet Union and is asking "how can you have bread if the government doesn't provide bread?".

>>136353781
>Libertarians may respond with nonsense like "natural monopolies don't exist in practice,

Of course they do, they're called the state. The state has a monopoly on taxation, prisons, courts, starting wars, murder, currency.

>>136366980
No, gubmint build roads and make feel betteer with gubmintt magic.

- Average statist logic

We can patreon crowd source all public utilities. Hell we can do the same with health care for indigents. All these liberal millionaires put your money where your mouth is. Same with everyone else, dems and god fearing RINOs alike.

>>136369481
That's a retarded ''argument''.
You don't make bread and give it away to everyone who needs it.
Roads are public utility that can be used by anyone who happens to be driving on them.

>>136362782
Build a railroad instead and compete. Drive a bit longer by taking another route. Cut costs by using busses. Nothing new.

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>>136353781
The people on welfare now. Americans will build the roads and pick the veggies if they wouldn't get more for sitting on their asses. How come liberals think everything should be free?

>>136369623
>That's a retarded ''argument''.

No you're just low IQ and don't understand how analogies work.

>You don't make bread and give it away to everyone who needs it.

That's exactly what you do when government takes control of bread production (i.e. in the USSR).

People need bread more than they need roads.

>Roads are public utility that can be used by anyone who happens to be driving on them.

Wow nice circular logic there. Roads are public utility because they are provided by the government, and government needs to provide roads because they are public utility.

Q E MOTHERFUCKING D ANCAPS BTFO

>>136353781
I signed no such social contract at birth. If we are doing birth right contracts then all immigration must be stopped and anyone not born on this clay needs to fuck off back to where they fell out of a stinking vagina

>>136363270
And in the current system they have wide range of career options in politics but is that really a solution that works?

>>136369867
Analogies do not work. Analogies deliberately compare the thing you are trying to argue about with something that is different.
A good analogy defeats the entire purpose of having an analogy because a good analogy doesn't compare oranges to apples.
Analogies are the shittiest logical fallacies there are. They allow people to dodge having to make arguments and instead compare what you're talking about to something that is much different.

Instead of comparing roads to fucking bread you could have compared roads to sewer systems. Why did it have to be bread and not sewer systems?
What if instead of
>It's like arguing with a girl who escaped the Soviet Union and is asking "how can you have bread if the government doesn't provide bread?".
you said
>It's like arguing with a girl who escaped the Soviet Union and is asking "how can you have sewer systems if the government doesn't build and maintain them?".
Oh wait, then it would mean that you would have to make a fucking argument because this analogy wouldn't create a massive fallacy that allows you to dodge explaining your side.

>>136360902
Should nightclubs be able to discriminate against non-members?
This is the most retarded post I've ever seen on /pol/
>the economy is a publicly-funded venture
Then by that logic everything in every store across america should be free.
Because businesses are in effect public property.
Why should we discriminate against poor people?
I can condense the entirety of this retarded post into "we shouldn't be able to discriminate against niggers because we shouldn't be able to discriminate against niggers"
The civil rights act is an atrocity

>>136353781
>it's a teenagers strawman of libertarianism
>he actually thinks most libertarians don't want roads and sidewalks
Stop retard. You've already fucked up.

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a truly "libertarian" society or ancap society can never exist and never will.

the only sensible way to apply the concept of libertarianism is via the continuous cutting back of government size and strength. the state will ALWAYS attempt to increase itself, usually successfully.

so libertarianism only makes sense as an ideal to strive towards and not to achieve.

>>136353781
Where we are going, we don't need roads.

>>136363584
Private companies dont actually compete during roadbuilding. They just have to offer a better price. Not actually deliver at that price. It takes a customer side, in this case the state, who actually gives a shit to keep the costs down. Goverments are unable to determine a correct price for the service they want and follow through on actually getting stuff done for the money. The further goverment is removed from most decision making the better.

>>136370597
This. We need nukes.

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>>136353781
First of all, why do you believe in a libertarian world you are entitled to sidewalks and roads?

Secondly just like today, private companies still build roads and sidewalks, if the property owner can afford them of course. It falls back into the first question, just because you were stupid and bought a Honda civic, doesn't make you entitled to roads. I have a jeep, so smooth roads and not necessary.

>>136353781
But taxes ARE by definition theft.

>>136363616
The early usa was pretty libertarian. But currently its massivly overregulated. Both the democrats and the republicans want an ever large Government with massive handouts and surveilance. Creating entire generations of people dependant on the goverment.

>>136362260
> implying a kike wouldn't understand material incentives

>>136370869
No, they are not. Your ownership of things is dependent on the authority of congress.

>>136370316
>Instead of comparing roads to fucking bread you could have compared roads to sewer systems.

Because in the USSR bread was provided by the government, and the context of the analogy was someone who is claiming that if government doesn't provide something, that something won't exist (i.e. girl from USSR saying that we won't have bread if the government doesn't provide bread). It's really simple logic here we're talking about.

test

>>136360380
Hold on friendo, I cant speak for dad, but here in america the feds can't invade or sieze my property withour a warrant. If they do the state will cannibalize itself because any one person is small potatos compared to more politcal power. I'm not putting my faith in the benevolence of the state, just the opposite.

>>136371281
this is a blatant lie you tell yourself for the sake of winning an argument

>>136354135
t. Statist faggot.

>>136363616

Must be nice living in the fantasy world, where you are, i.e. where politicians actually enact policies for which they were voted in for.

Over here it's essentially, let's beg for bread crumbs from our rulers who say one thing today, and another thing tomorrow and they are not at all liable for what they say, and they can do whatever they want for 5 years and you can't do shit about it.

>>136353781
The intimation is there are no private roads in existence, and communities have never naturally created roads. I suggest you look up the history of famous toll or assorted state roads, you might be surprised what you find.
>public property must exist
because you have a lack of imagination doesn't mean we should have theft.

sage all fields.

>>136354135
1 post by this ID

Really makes you think

>>136372265
But what if, say, my local road is broken and unsafe because its inefficient for the class that controls road allocation to focus on my local community. In fact they are making a killing in car insurance and are hoping everyone moves out so they can buy up the property then build nice roads? How do I get fair representation?

>>136364727
A libertarian nation would probably have a massive militia due to private gun ownership and wariness of goverment structures. Also many paramilitary mercenary organisations, as well as a small non profit national guard. But since each and every man and every company has an existential interest to fight or fund the war, and since communism id incredibly inefficient they could potentially win. But this assumes they arent blind and get steamrolled unprepared. The key is noticing the threat early and popularize defending the land of the truly free. The violent revolution int to establish socialism should give an early warning. And the longer they can stall the war the more likely for the commie state to collapse on its own.

>>136353781
"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
the answer is "WE WILL"!!
when we get sick of our crumbling roads eathing our cars and making travel nearly impossible, we will get our assed together and fix it. period.
next question?

>>136371281

No it's not. [Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence]

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>>136353781
>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
Businesses and individuals that want to easily move their goods and services from point A to point B. A road is of mutual benefit for all parties involved and getting funding for it should not be a problem and debt instruments like bonds would still exist.
And this is just in regards to a city. People would donate and contribute to it, and ways to encourage this would be public recognition, a billboard showing do-gooders.

For major highways, corporations would build toll roads. This ceases to be a problem in the 21st century now that we have digital billing technology which would allow people to just drive through and be billed for it.

>Protip: the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country
>not knowing what a contract is

"A contract is much more than an agreement between two people. There must be an offer and acceptance, intention to create a legally binding agreement, a price paid (not necessarily money), a legal capacity to enter a contract of your own free will, and proper understanding and consent of what is involved. Any duress, false statements, undue influence or unconscionable dealings could make a contract illegal and void."

I did not sign a contract at birth and even if I did, it could be nullified given that I was not competent enough to speak.
If it was truly a contract, I could break it because of this and likely receive recompense through third party arbitrator (or if a private law insurance scheme was not a priorily setup, I would be able to retaliate).

>>136372940
2/2
But it isn't a contract, and I do not live in an AnCap system but a fiat capitalist system with the state aiming a gun at me, so I cannot retaliate.

>>136353781
Who will kill brown people halfway around the world for me? Checkmate anarchists

>>136372940
But hey who controls what the toll actually is? I mean you can't vote out a ceo so what if they totally gouge the workers so no one but the vip gold lane people can actually become potential competition?

>>136363878

And what exactly is stopping that centralized power from slowly increasing in size and eventually becoming authoritarian as all governments eventually do?

>>136353781
Does anybody on /pol/ still even care about libertarianism? We only cared when we supported Ron Paul. Most of us are modern fascists who only outwardly pretended to be libertarians since it was the closest thing at the time but it's no longer socially unacceptable to be a fascist anyways since they equate nationalism with fascism. Might as well embrace it.

Thing is libertarianism was created by a jew. In fact, when you think about it a lot of socio-economic political ideologies and "philosophy" was created by a jew. Karl Marx' communism. Lenin was jewish. Trotsky was jewish. They imposed modern atheism so you could say modern atheism is jewish since t traces its roots to Lenin and Trotsky. Ayn Rand was Jewish and so is her objectivism. Modern liberalism and progressivism are born out of ashkenazi American "culture". Modern capitalism is a corrupt hyper capitalism created by jews. Globalism is jewish because the globalists are trying to bring about a borderless Marxist socialist world government communal society led by jewish "philosopher kings" (mocking Plato).

All of these isms were products of their times and mostly obsolete in the modern era. But the jews still try to push some flavor of Marxism upon the world. And you goyim endless argue over which one of these jewish isms is better than the other. Maybe it's time to just stop listening to this race of parasitic sociopaths and pathological liars who are manipulating all of us. And stop arguing about which jewish ism is better than the other.

It only costs 250$ Canada bux a day to rent a massive bobcat, you can make a dirt road yourself for pretty cheap

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>>136373350

>tfw Fasicsm is literally radical centrism, taking philosophy from both left and right wing political thought

Fascism is literally the perfect system.

currently, the people who build the roads and sidewalks are private companies who win bids to perform the work. so, i'm guessing it will be those guys.

>>136373326
>But hey who controls what the bread price is? I mean you can't vote out a ceo of a braed company so what if they totally gouge the workers so no one but the vip gold lane people can actually become potential competition?

Again, this argument that if government doesn't provide something that something won't exist... I honestly have no idea why do people still make it, despite all evidence to the contrary.

>>136373326
Ohh shit I didn't realize this, we should just nationalize apple and vote for iPhones to be 3 cents, and while we're at it vote for Lamborghinis to be 5 bucks. I wonder why the military costs hundreds of billions every year to run instead of a couple thousand, we should hold a vote to lower the price.

>>136353781
There's no such thing as a natural monopoly. All monopolies exist because of government introduced barriers to entry.

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>>136353781
In an AnCap utopia flying cars will exist, nullifying any need for roads..

>>136373350
Man, you're giving the jews a lot of credit, if I only listened to you I'd think the jews were a race of super people who could walk on water.

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>>136373877

>people will literally band together and create a government if there isn't one
>government then creates monopolies through force

>>136373636
But see thats the thing, bread is a good not a public service, it would be very hard to monopolize that since just about anyone could produce it. I mean in theory you could monolpize the grain industry but then you'd be in competition with other sources of food. Hell your whole plan would collapse if people became self sufficient and had their own private garden, hell they might sell their own grain!

But see roads are HUGE public works. Maintence alone on a single street can cost millions. So when you have one bridge that leads into an industrial and economic center that everyone needs to survive whoever owns that bridge might as well be king.

>>136371932
>>136372911
>Congress has power under Article I, Section 8 to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare.

>Article I, section 8, Clause 5 of the Constitution says that “Congress shall have power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.”

>>136373864
You can actually vote for political leaders who promise to cut defence spending. Actually now that I think about it how would the police and military work without a state?

>>136373326
Supply and demand, you imbecile.

>>136374445
>we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain inalienable rights, that among these rights be life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

>>136374445
>Congress has the authority because I have a piece of paper that says they do.

Not really a convincing argument desu.

>>136374711
and also this, thanks LOL, thanks your own document is self contradictory.

>>136353781
I naturally dont trust anyone with these type of glasses, screams smug mental illness to me

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>>136374611
>Own a main road in a city
>Start to feel like pic related
>There is now a toll of $10,000 to drive on my road
>Thousands are now late for work
>Entire city is congested
>But I'm a wealth creator, don't tread on me!
>People occasionally try to drive on my road without paying
>Track them down and kill them with my mercenary army

>>136374329
Roads and pipes are fine to be compulsory expenses. They're not profitable ventures that also allow for market competition they're monopolistic in nature. I would set aside such things an impose a flat tax to pay for it. Taxation is not theft if it's for public works that everyone needs. Parks are not needed. Nigger healthcare is not needed. I could almost argue for education because I need educated people for my own macroeconomic and microeconomic security. But that gets grainy quickly and that's another convoluted topic

>>136374611
Thats my point the demand is super high and manditory and the supply is singular. I mean do you really expect every buisness in new york or san francisco to build their own private bridge and road 3 exclusively to their office? This isn't a system where competition can exist.

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>>136374806
>mfw random anon-cap understands the concept of freedom more than my average countrymen
>I laugh on the outside but cry inside

>>136374445
That second quote doesn't say what the first insists it does

>>136374936
Well 10,000 is absurd. You don't want to charge people more than they coild possibly earn. Just slowly crank up the price so they get used to it. Maybe take it directly out of their paycheck say 8% for unlimited use for one year?

>>136374329
Maintenance only costs that much because of how incompetent the government is, a contractor just says a really high number and the gov employee that has no education on the subject or any care for the value of a dollar signs off on a huge bill to do something that costs 1/4 the amount to actually do the work.
There's a reason why construction contractors try to get government jobs

>>136368500
well no the deer are violating property rights. Roads are not just throwing down pavement. it's ceasing property from individuals

As long as people want to get from point A to point B, there will be entrepreneurs trying to meet this demand as affordably, conveniently, and safely as possible.

I mean you can make the argument that government-funded roads are more efficient, and I think it's a fair point. I think it was a lot more valid point a century ago, today with RFID and electronic billing I think toll roads are a much more viable option. There are other ways to fund roads to. Likely the cost of building and maintaining local roads would be covered by neighborhoods/HOAs, businesses, etc. There are all kinds of creative ways other roads could potentially be funded. For example, road owners could lease space along the road to local businesses (gas stations, restaurants, etc.), advertisers, utilities, etc. to help fund the costs of building and maintaining the roads. etc.

But the whole idea that paved roads would not exist without government is asinine. People aren't going to stop needing to get places if there wasn't a government to pay for roads.

>>136374936
>Own a main road in a city
These would not be toll roads as described earlier but let's assume there is a major toll road going into the city.
>There is now a toll of $10,000 to drive on my road
There would be widespread outrage and if you did not have any competitors, you surely just guaranteed there will be another in the future
You also would lose money and nobody would use the road for the day.
Shareholders (assuming it was a corporation) would divest as it would be risky.
Only a retard would do this as the outcome is far worse for him in the future than the minor "muh sides" he would get in the here and now.

You wouldn't be able to shoot them either as many would consider an affront on the NAP and even if it wasn't, people would be so pissed off that you created a scenario where you intentionally gunned down consumers just for some lulz, that vigilantism would probably occur without any repercussion.

>>136375181
>I mean do you really expect every business in new york or san francisco to build their own private bridge and road 3 exclusively to their office?
you don't need a million bridges, you only need 2

>>136375432
Could be, there have been people fucking things up like that just for the lulz before though. I'm sure it would happen at least once.

Even if it was $25 it would be prohibitive for some people and force some kind of retarded alternate route which would clog the city up. Imagine the traffic jams in ancap city too just from tolls alone and everyone trying to find the cheapest but also fastest route...

>>136375101
You statist cuck how dare you tread on my opinions. The McCourt has deemed this a violation of my intellectual property and NAP. My child soliders will be at your propriety to seize your assets.

>>136375771
No one would use the road and the city would get congested as fuck because everyone knows that an important thoroughfare being out of action can fuck up traffic for an entire downtown sector.

This problem would be multiplied a lot by other roads being expensive and people trying to find the best route to work. It's a negative externality.

>>136353781
why do we need them again? so poor people can come trudging right through my property without needing to state their business?

yeah, no thanks.

>>136355028
>but want socialist roads
So there were no roads before Socialism?
So the idea of the State, of the people's union to get biggewr resources together and that way build all the means you need to create a free and strong society are 100% Socialist Ideas thata did not existed at all before?

Then the only solution to
>MUH ROADS!
is to force everyone to by taxed 50% of their income to build whatever the state thinks is necesary, and by "the state" I mean what the majority wants, even if it's 50,000001% you now can use the other half's resources to do as you pelase.

Wow, that's some very free, not at all divided, strong society anon!

>>136376028
It's most negative for the business involved and while a ridiculous scenario like this could happen, once again, it would end in doom and gloom for that business owner, and he would loose money for such a rash action.

>>136376028
we talking about ancapistan or LA?

>>136375771

>You wouldn't be able to shoot them either as many would consider an affront on the NAP and even if it wasn't, people would be so pissed off that you created a scenario where you intentionally gunned down consumers just for some lulz, that vigilantism would probably occur without any repercussion.

Reee!!! Statism! How dare you tell me what I can do with my own property! My house my rules :^(

Also I'm glad you admit that NAP is a meme and that vigilantism is the only logical outcome from such a concept. My point is that your ideology rests upon me having the right to do what I want with my own property, so if people gunned me down for doing so then the system has collapsed and proven itself to be the meme it is.

>>136376075
Shit thats right. Couldn't a company in theory buy a single foot of properity around an entire town now that public property doesn't exist? You could basically put an entire community in a siege until they swear fealty.

>>136376228
Just like how monsento is bankrupt now...Oh wait. people are too stupid to care

>live in suburbia
>hate neighbor
>buy the section of road infront of his house
>refuse to let him use the road as it is my private property
I can't wait.

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nothing provokes a 300 reply thread faster than a "muh roads" shitpost

>>136376541

...what's to stop this from happening right now?

Nothing

Why doesn't it already occur all the time, then?

>>136376541
Using nap to violate nap. a true libertarian

>>136375286
Don't cry man; take solace in the fact that thinkers exist the world over and fight for what they believe in.

>>136376404
>towns will exist in AnCapistan
maybe peasant villages on grand estates.

>>136376349
Absurd scenarios result in absurd outcomes.
Absurd scenarios would very seldom happen, even if all property rights were fully obeyed and the NAP was strictly adhered to simply because the outcome of those decisions are terrible for the business in question

>raises toll to $10,000
>people remember this and never go back to him and would gladly pay consumers more to screw this guy
>loses business
>new competition might arise
>loses business
>stockholders divest because a madman owns most of the company and runs it.

There is nothing beneficial to be gained, even if you get a handful of people to pay the $10,000, you would have shot yourself in the foot in the long run or even short-run thereafter said event.

>>136376831
>consumers would gladly pay more elsewhere just to screw this guy*

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>>136373557
it isn't, but it's better than hyperinclusive massdemocracy, a libertarian monarchy with a philosopher king is the perfect system.

>>136376831
Why can't the guy just buy up his competition? Why fight the man when you could just threaten to and get a cool mil

>>136376662
Because you cant purchase public property. That belongs to state who are always evil can literally get away with anything because the rest of state whose job it is fo keep them in check are also evil who enjoy human misery above all else.

>>136353781
Who will build the roads and sidewalks?

Government

libertarian IS NOT minarchist
libertarian IS NOT anarchist

that is why those are diferent word, because they are diferent things. ask AnCap this.

>>136377076
so does the government have to right to build a road on my property?

>>136376480
>Just like how monsento is bankrupt now...Oh wait. people are too stupid to care
>implying Monsento is a big bad boogeyman
People are finding benefit from their products and services in spite of "muh GMOs are bad", leftist propaganda that has no basis in reality. People are spreading disinformation about their product.

You don't know what CRISPR sequencing is. You're a shit peon destined for nothing.

>>136376662
I can't buy the fucking road.

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Only Minarchists and Anarchists need worry about roads, nigga just build them privately nigga, people can out wet rock over dirt without the government nigga

>>136377160
Now take everything you said and replace Monsanto with evil road company and BAM he stays open charging 10,000$ a toll because he has little puppets like you fighting for muh free market

What about everyone builds his own road next to his own property?

>>136377028
>city declines, business goes down, and makes less money in the long run.
Seems like a rational decision. Plus even if a natural monopoly did arise, he would not be reckless with it.
There were natural monopolies with power lines in the early 1900s, and people didn't raise the price to absurdly high costs for no reason because they knew other localities could offer the service cheaper and people would move in the long run.

>>136377195

Private roads don't exist in the US?

My parents live in a rural area and there is a gravel road up to their home.

What is stopping somebody from buying this right now? Please tell me.

>>136374134
in reality flying cars will exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PmXL0oiggg

this is not a good thing though, if easy to manoeuvrer flying electric vehicles are in the hands of the public, previously hard to reach places, like the countryside will be opened up, because you can just fly there.

the pristine, calm countryside will be bought up by browns and chinks, same with mountain towns and islands, everything will turn to shit as soon as the world can easily get to the countryside.

i don't want flying cars, but it will happen.

>>136355028
no, "socialist road" IS an libertarian. There is difference between anarchist and libertarian

Stop being delusional, misinformed or/and intentionally mislabeling us

>>136377408
So I got to pay a toll every have acer? No thanks retard

>>136377149
If the road is vital to the public trust. You would get more than what the property is worth so unless you are a mohawken it should work out.

>>136353781
Op is fucking retarded, ever been to the east coast? Toll roads are everywhere because the state governments (democrats) can't pay for their construction/upkeep and that means the cost is passed on to the people that use the road. It fucking sucks paying $10 every time you want to drive on a small section of highway every day but there you go

>>136353781
I think you've confused libertarianism with anarchocapitalism. Libertarians just want a government that respects individual rights.

>>136377545
And if I refuse to sell it?

>>136359451
You dumb faggot.

David D. Friedman's Consequentialism is entirely pragmatist.

>>136353781
Technically, the government doesn't build anything - the government is essentially a piece of paper with amendments and tweaks made every so often to it.

People build the roads and sidewalks, hence government contractors.

>>136377453
Less money? Your making bank on the roads. name one company that went bankrupt from people's outrage

>>136377149
no, libertarianism is goverment serpecting individual rights and freedoms, including property right.

If government wants to build a read, they have to buy the property, as anyone else who wants to build anything.

>>136377469
If the gravel road isn't on their property and someone buys it they HAVE to share it. Access is king when it comes to court cases around private roads.

>>136374743
Here's the thing: ownership is a social construct. This idea that you own something because it is the "fruits of your labor" is a nice thought, but doesn't reflect some law of the universe. In reality, people just *believe* they own things based on whatever criteria they wish. Part of the functions of the state is to determine what ownership is. Practically, what we own and do not own is a matter of how ownership has been defined by the state.

Part of the problem with libertarianism is that it tries to both validate and invalidate ownership as it exists in the United States. They're completely willing to accept "ownership" of some abstract quantity defined and regulated by the government, but not the same regulative authority that allows them to take it when they see fit.

Anytime libertarians try to define "ownership" in some natural law kind of way, they always run into fatal issues because really they are really just trying to justify why they own the money in their trust fund, and any meaningful and consistent definition of ownership will call our ownership of anything into question because everyone's ownership is the result of stealing in some fashion.

>>136377611
>Libertarians just want a government that respects individual rights

Isn't this all just about making money without someone trying to take it from you?
It isn't a progress in term of society and community.
>It's muh mony don't touch reeeee

>>136353781

The roads meme is played out and stupid. A better question is "Who will take care of workers if they become too sick or injured to work?"

>>136353781
>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"

Probably the government considering libertarians want a minimal government for the purpose of infrastructure, defense, and law enforcement.

>>136377665
The goverment might rule in a case that you'll have to give it up for just compensation. Sorry. Eminent domain.

>>136353781
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/traffickers-repair-russian-road-used-for-smuggling-55065

here

>>136378160
Company insurance and better work contracts Get paid less then the other company but get piece of mind.

>>136378391
so therefor it would violate NAP and no real libertarian can support roads

RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS
>RATIONAL PRIVATE ACTORS WORKING FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS

>>136360780
>dont buy fucking burgers if you wanna eat healthy
The mass consumer buys whatever is cheapest and doesn't even think to consider if he's getting what he thinks he is buying and doesn't even bother to read the label. Market demand can not and will not hold the producers responsible for safety, quality, or accuracy in advertising. This is readily demonstrated by the American food supply. Our regulation is insufficient, and the cheap factory-farmed meat that is most readily available and bought by most people is full of fatty tumors and sometimes cysts full of pus.

>>136353781
You don't think NASA built those launch vehicle systems and payloads, do you? They were built by private non-government entities; private industry partnered universities. Private contractors can be hired for the task. Same for infrastructure.

>>136378565
Oh sure but its why libertarianism is dumb. No one will sell their shit when they can hold out for more so public works become impossible and everyone suffers.

>>136378702
that doesn't explain ceasing of property

>>136378823
not my problem. Muh freedom

>>136354204
Welfare programs for 'poor people' and mil-ind

>>136378755
But NASA is using money stolen from me so how does that solve the problem? the fake moon landing had no monitary value so no company would spend billions on it at that time

>>136378979
Everyone suffers. No man is an island ect. Again it has to be a vital to the public trust. An oil company cant force you out to build a well or pipeline.

>>136367626
>All food is shit
>Companies are competing with each other to produce the shittiest and the cheapest food
>Demand for quality food rises
>No regulation in place, so a company decides to advertise their shit food as quality food and sell the same shit at an inflated price
>An (((independent certification organization))) is formed to """ensure""" that this company and others that follow suit are producing food up to a sufficient standard (read: taking bribes for phony credentials)
>No oversight, so this continues and everyone gets cancer and diabetes from their toxic food, a great win for the (((pharmaceutical industry)))

>>136379286
and the government can't put a fence Through my farm and build a road. But in your world that is ok and doesn't violate my property as long as the check is big enough