Why OBAMACARE wasn't a great thing for America ?

Massive increase in insurance premiums. Was designed to make you more of a slave to the state and fill the pockets or big pharma and insurers

>>136242428
Do you have clear information ? I come from UE and here there's only anti-Trump propaganda...

it's basically a new tax.
You either have insurance already

enroll into obamacare and pay rising premiums if you're not poor

or be slapped with an expensive fine for not having health insurance

>>136242781
So, Obamacare asks all people to have a private health insurance ? If not -> fine. It's correct ?
Why don't the state can help everybody for health ?

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insurance is NOT health care. they sold this over priced insurance to us saying that it would alleviate costs for the uninsured, when in fact welfare had ALREADY covered those people. Now, you have months wait for any speciality referral, end up pay thousands out of pocket and theres a bunch of corperate insurance company approval between you and your doctor. INSURANCE is not health care.

>>136242895
no, you either have health insurance or you get fined for not having health insurance.

You will be paying money one way or another, unless you plan to never ever file a tax return and go off grid.

>>136242336
Anything today increases the size and reach of government is a terrible thing.
What is this so hard for people to understand?

>>136242895

>asks

Shit is mandatory, nigger. Fuck Obamacare.

>>136243098

yep, and even then, 99% of the towns you wanna go "off grid" in will send the EPA to visit if youre not shitting into an approved septic. there is no escaping.

>>136242895
the "poor" already had free medical through states.

>>136243390
Here, in Europe, we say that Americans need to pay for medicals...

>>136242336
>Why OBAMACARE wasn't a great thing for America ?

name one instance where mandating a private business' services has been good for anyone

>>136243601
we already were. it was all LIES. remember one of the first things he did was bail out AIG. guess who the mother ship of much of these insurance companies is.... AIG. someone greased his palms.

>>136242336
1. Insurance premiums are like car payments now even if your work subsidizes.
2. It put 10-20 million dindus and pablos on medicaid or the "insurance exchange," which was propped up with non-congressionally approved payments from the white house.
3. As poor people get sick and Trump is threatening to defund the exchanges, the big names are dropping out or threatening to do so in 2018. This will increase premiums even worse for the average family.
4. Our health care system is still terrible. All the reform did was increase costs and wait times for appointments. As providers scramble to serve increased demand for public health we lose our nation's focus on private health that makes it the best place to get cancer surgery or a heart transplant.

>>136242336

Never found any savings. Just redistribution and government funding the insurance market raising prices faster.

beyond all the bullshit of "uninsured Americans" there had ALWAYS been free clinics and sliding cost shares and until obamasurance, id never met a single person in my life denied care. poor or not. old or not.

And what will be the "TrimpCare" ?

>>136244025
there wont be because its one thing the swamp can deny his reform of

The solution is not insurance, i guess.
The government itself needs to provide healthcare. If you leave it to the private sector, the certain breed of doctor jews on steroids that nest in the states WILL find a way to either bill you or kill you.

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>>136242336

shill slide thread

don't be suckers /pol/ they are trying to dilute us by spamming with meaningless bait threads

reported and saged

>>136242336
Insurance is basically gambling. Everyone throws their money in, a few people win, but the odds literally have to be in the casino's favor or else there's no casino. Now have the government make spending money at that casino obligatory for everyone regardless of what they want to do, and also legally require the casino to hit on a 20. Since the casino HAS to make money, either things are going to get even shittier for people, or the casino is just going to just close shop.

It was set up specifically to fail, causing a crisis that would let democrats do whatever the fuck they want when it had to be fixed.

>>136244113
no it doesnt. please understand oue heathcare WASNT broken. now it is. prior to obama, the decency of our society and welfare had granted many people treatment FOR FREE. yes with major diseases like cancer, initially higher upfront costs, but thats why we had FREE NO cost cancer facilities like saint judes hospital etc. but people are lazy. they didnt want to do the paperwork. the misinformation the rest of the world had about our "health system" is and has been utter bs. note the wording was "uninsured Americans" NOT "untreated"

>>136242336
Insurance companies are mostly responsible for the shitshow our healthcare is.
Hillary/Obamacare/ACA mandates we reward their assraping of the pubic by making it law that we all bend over for it.

>>136242336
The cheapest plan I found for me and my wife is $14,000/yr with $7000 deductible. Does that sound like a good deal to you? I live in Colorado so go to the exchanges and look.

>>136244493
shoot brother you got a deal there. 10k deductable
to euros reading that means we pay 10000 UPFRONT OUT OF POCKET before insurance even works ON TOP of the monthy several thousand dollar premiums.

>>136244337
You're a fucking idiot. Health insurance/care was broken. I bet you're young as fuck because you don't remember all of the pushback against HMOs and how they remove your doctor's ability to make decisions and replacing it with actuary tables.

>>136244645
oh i remember. it was stage one to prepare the path for digital record keeping and this insurance scam we have now.

>>136244640
>>136244493

Why again do people think Obamacare is good?

It was always supposed to fail to pave the way for single payer

Because it forces people to purchase something they do not want.

>>136244758
i dont think its good AT ALL. its all smoke and mirrors to force americans to pay middle men

>>136244758

Because he be black mofuggah!
Basically anything and everything he does, no matter how shitty, suddenly becomes justifiable because of Americans attitudes and actions in regards to big nig.

>>136244905

Leftists are a disease

>>136242336
mandates to force you to by crap you dont want
premiums are not linked to risk

>>136244905
and mind you, there were ACTUAL paid shills swarming facebook to put out misinformation and confuse. heath insurance used to be an incentive with full time jobs. a bonus option. NOW its income redistribution, and not to the poor and medically needy, to insurance corperations.

>>136244758
>Why again do people think Obamacare is good?
Because it's something Obama did and according to feel good numbers that are inflated. More people are covered with medical care because they expanded Medicaid, the program that should be used for the very poor. Best part? The system is eating itself alive like people predicted it would when it was passed.

No Obama, you don't get to keep your plan, or your doctor. More people say "fuck it" and eat the fine rather than buy health insurance because it's more affordable then paying 12,000 a year with ridiculous deductible for something you may not even need. It's more fucked than it was before.

>>136242428
>Massive increase in insurance premiums
the rate of increase was drastically reduced and controlled from what it was before. it is a meme to complain about this because the insurance companies agreed to regulations of these reduced profits. not to mention, repealing the act or any of its fundamental principles without an even more regulated substitute will sky rocket them even further to how bad you think they are now

>Was designed to make you more of a slave to the state and fill the pockets or big pharma and insurers
you do know every other first world nation has a single payer system to avoid this situation? we still have huge profit motives for health care here in the US, allowing thieves like martin shkreli to arbitrarily mark up the prices of drugs?

ACA butt blasts conservatives because the only viable and logical next step towards improving it is a single payer system KEK

>>136242336
Illegals in USA don't want to be insured, that's all that bothers Americans and their illegals and bosses. Obamacare isn't an insurance company, it only states some rules, like you got to have insurance company, but healthcare plans aka insurance companies and their lelele is up to insurance companies. Price Obamacare isn't fault of Obama, it's how Americans roll. Either way, no insurance plan got full coverage, it's always out of pocket payments, co-insurances, deductables, none of which exists in public insurance of Socialism.

>>136242336
Everything that nigger promised for obanana care was a lie.

>>136242336
Turns out when you introduce a third party paying bills in to a system that lets Doctors charge what they want, you're going to raise prices for everyone else.

>>136245109
>he rate of increase was drastically reduced and controlled from what it was before.
not for young males

>>136242336
Because it was designed by a nigger.

>>136245109
>only viable and logical next step towards improving it is a single payer system
Yes, tell me how a large, overinflated, government agency won't fuck things up at all.

>>136245243
That's because insurance company can choose to not cover certain procedures doctors do and this you have to pay out of pocket. Doctors aren't government monitored either, so their cures might be something pulled out of an ass yesterday before you arrived to doctor.

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like we always say on /pol/... follow the money, the ONLY people who benefited were corperations that sell insurance. this bill pushed much of the lower middle class into poverty

>>136243636
>name one instance where mandating a private business' services has been good for anyone
car insurance, you dunce

>>136245518
You dont have to buy car insurance dipshit

>>136245472
in America our doctors are heavily government regulated... for everything. The have boards and oversight agencies and their own malpractice insurance. let alone the DEA assures that they are closely watched as an endgame.

>>136245616
yes you do unless you want to be ticketed and registration denied.

>>136245624
Think about this logically. Why would insurance company that is a private organization in USA cover for some snake oil doctor invented that supposedly cures cancer that costs 10000 dollars? Why would private insurance company pay a private doctor for such thing? They don't pay that or you have to sue with them and then maybe they will pay it.

>>136242336
Absolute authoritarian communist bullshit. The dumbest law ever passed by any President. Literally Venezuela-tier.

>>136245689
1. You don't have to drive on public roads
2.
>Alternative methods of maintaining financial responsibility typically include a surety bond, cash or securities, or self-insurance. Also, a couple of states allow you to pay an uninsured motorist fee to drive legally without auto insurance

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/alternatives-to-car-insurance-cm251682

>>136245887
no, but if my road goes to shit i can pay a private contractor to fix it. oh look, JOBS

>>136245834
this

>>136246061
What does that have to do with insurance?

>>136244808
>It was always supposed to fail to pave the way for single payer
by what measure has it failed? it controlled the uncontrollable hikes in premiums prior to the ACA, it halved the 20% uninsured rate, and republicans have failed to repeal it as they promised the last 8 years even with controlling majorities in every branch of government. hell, it marginally increases taxes on the 1% to keep it afloat, which is what republicans have so far tried to get rid of because it proves redistribution from the top down works remarkably well but only their base is stupid enough to believe in trickle down economics

>>136245887
also, you go ahead there anon. skip having car insurance and enjoy the beurocratic red tape just like forced obamacare, coming your way.

>>136246215
>20% uninsured rate
note not UNTREATED.

>>136246215
>it controlled the uncontrollable hikes in premiums prior to the ACA
Not for young males
It also didnt let people buy cheaper plans that dont include crap they dont need

>>136246238
USA can have all great laws, but if nobody regulates them and nobody locks up corruption then nothing will work to its optimum. Same with Windows, you have to clean the trash, delete browser history, fix dll and defrag for it to work properly. Windows might be perfect, but it will never work perfectly in this world since many viruses want to kill it.

you gotta love the mental gymnastics of the left. their best game seems to be the bait and switch of words. insurance is not care.

>>136245887
>>Alternative methods of maintaining financial responsibility typically include a surety bond, cash or securities, or self-insurance. Also, a couple of states allow you to pay an uninsured motorist fee to drive legally without auto insurance
who the hell has the money for self insurance? are you a millionaire? most of us did not win the fund baby lottery so we have to settle for car insurance in the event we get into an accident, which of course, none of us believe we will ever have. health insurance is the same principle, you moron

>>136246460
>are you a millionaire?
>A certificate issued by the Bureau of Motor Vehicles (BMV) indicating that money or government bonds in the amount of $30,000 is on deposit with the office of the Treasurer of the State of Ohio.

>health insurance is the same principle, you moron
No you are only required to cover liability to other people
Healthcare is being forced to take care of yourself

>>136246460
you may be on to something here anon, if you werent such a damn fail at being sublime. spin it however you want. insurance, is NOT care. in my entire life ive never seen an American denied medical care until obamasurance.

>>136245518

how is car insurance good?

like health insurance all it does is subsidize an industry and take money out of everyone's pockets to pay for people who don't have enough to deal with their mistakes

the only reason they can even get away with mandating vehicle insurance is because the government (supposedly) maintains public roads

>>136246800
ohhh no its to pay medical costs of accidents and property damage. hmm suddenly i see an overlap of unnecessary insurance costs hehe

>>136246800
There's a difference between private company doing business and private ownership. Just because i hire a private cook doesn't means he gets to eat what he cooked.

>>136246800
wow think on that. we pay car insurance so we have medical coverage incase of accident in a country that requires heath insurance for medical costs. suddenly i feel like one of zuckerbergs commodities instead of a human

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FYI ROADS come from property taxes, state and local taxes. NOT car insurance.

>>136246441
>insurance is not care.
what are you arguing for here, are you saying the government should mandate doctors to see you? the purpose of the ACA was to get as many people as possible to join the risk pool that is health care to dilute the costs. this does not mean people are required to go see the doctor, it means they now have access to basic medical services they didn't have before because they could not afford it or their employer did not offer them should they want to go see a doctor.

>>136247133
obvious single payer shill is obvious.
im saying insurance is not care. period.

>>136244758
Because now all the virtue signaling cunts can say everyone is insured. They don't give a fuck if it's brutally expensive and unsustainable.

>>136247117
Government employs private companies to build stuff for them, how is that news? Obamacare employs private insurance companies. Either way a boss of private company can employ illegals or charlatans.

>>136247133
welfare had all this covered prior to obamasurance.

>>136247133
>people as possible to join the risk pool that is health care to dilute the costs
You only need a few 1000 people to fully dilute the costs

>>136245109
Insurance companies stocks are up over 600% since ACA passed. They are literally cash machines.

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>believes this was all just a scheme to further erase middle class.

>>136242336

>FORCED to pay $400-800 a month for the healthcare that requires you spend $10,000 to $15,000 of your own money before it does anything

What did Obongo mean by this?

>>136246800
>to pay for people who don't have enough to deal with their mistakes
this is a meme. was it a mistake when you totaled your mommy's SUV by passing a red light when you were 16? was it a mistake when you were born with a preexisting condition that requires life long medication? was it a mistake when you went to surgery for a broken bone only to have the doctor find a tumor? the only people who have the money to cover these catastrophic "mistakes" and not go bankrupt are the wealthy. it's life and death for the rest of us wage cucks, so government taxes and regulations are quite literally our only lifeline. the rich pay very good money to misinform dumb asses like you into believing high taxes and government services are bad

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>>136243390
a lot of States don't offer medicaid to the poor--only to the disabled and eldery. Obamacare expanded Medicaid to them to decrease the uninsurance rate and to lower premiums, but a bunch of Red-states have refused and took it to the Supreme Court and won the right to refuse individually on the State level. Now the Red-states are primarily suffering from much higher premiums than those who didn't expand medicaid because every young person there is just hoping on health insurance from their jobs once they get sick and using it until they get treated and jumping off.
>>136243015
health insurance is required to get healthcare--both before and after Obamacare.
>d, when in fact welfare had ALREADY covered those people.
Medicaid was expanded with Obamacare, not before it. Before it, it was limited State by State and most didn't cover it based on poverty.
>>136243845
>private health that makes it the best place to get cancer surgery or a heart transplant.
Not true. Even in areas where we do top out with cancer survival rates, it's only by a few fractions of a percent, or a percent or two, over the running up developed countries with universal healthcare systems. That's not worth twice the GDP costs, inefficient private bureaucracy, and medical costs that come with our system.

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It's almost like they can do whatever they want. LOL

>>136242428
Telling the same lies over and over again doesn't make them true.

>>136247571
you mad bro? you seem mad. maybe you should call your insurance company and get authorization to see a shrink. enjoy the wait

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>>136242428
Thanks Emu fucker. It was free shit for niggers of all shapes and sizes the bill. How good does that sound in theory or practice? You can't give people with low impulse control free shit they just kill themselves with it and end up needing even more assistance. See this fat spoiled piece of shit? The money paying for her surgery was stolen from someone who works and contributes while she eats cake and gets (((free))) pills. Obamacare made forcing that on what few contributing taxpayers there are a legal mandate. That's why it's bad.

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>most didn't cover it based on poverty
ahhhhhhh HORSESHIT. again. never saw a single person denied care until obamasurance.

Obamacare was never ment to work. It was supposed to dive insurance providers out of the market so the government would be "forced" to step in as a single payer.

That is until Trump got elected. Hillary really screwed the Jews on this one.

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>>136247649
or just rob working people until theyre so poor theyre dependant on government subsidies... OH SNAP

>>136244259
I mean, unlike a house that may never burn down or a car that may never get in a wreck, the human is CERTAIN to become sick and/or seriously injured before dying it's more like having infinite slot machine pulls. You WILL get a payout, the only uncertainty is timing.

>>136242336
Medical costs increased over 5x.
Thanks Obama.

>>136248115
>the human is CERTAIN to become sick and/or seriously injured before dying
This is not true at all

>>136248115
you bring up an interesting thought. should we keep old people alive? their quality of life is shit. we put down pets with more mercy. is old age nursing home life worth living?

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>>136243636
fire-escape exits, building codes, health inspections, consumer rights protections, ect. >>136243982
free-clinics are limited in access and extent.
> life denied care. poor or not. old or not.
then you must've not gone out, because pre-existing conditions barred a lot of people from getting insurance or renewing it once it became too costly.
>>136244337
>it doesnt. please understand oue heathcare WASNT broken. now it is

Nigger, premiums doubled between 2001-2008. the amount of work places that offered health insurance shrunk from 80% in the 70's to 60% in 2008. Welfare didn't cover the poor in most States before Obamacare, or even now (the limits for medicaid in States that expanded it are still poverty rate level). Uninsured Americans were rountinely marking up the costs from getting treated unexpected emergencies that they weren't able to pay, which got marked up on those who did have insurance with extra surge charges for the opportunity and admin costs.
>>136244758
because it guaranteed those with pre-existing conditions won't get denied coverage, and it ended life-time caps that insurance imposed on costs. essentially, it gave private consumers far more consumer protections.
>>136246321
the uninsured often don't have access to comprehensive to preventative care, which is the most cost effective method of keeping the population healthy and costs stable.

the problem was poor people stiffing doctors and ERs for cost of treatment, simply because they were too lazy to do hardship excemption paperwork or preemptively apply for welfare. obamasurance made sure those bills got paid, by the healthy working class.

>>136242336
we're paying for lard asses healthcare which doesnt actually help them and is just a waste of money.

>>136245109
Why does McDonalds get Ocare waiver but mom and pop burger joint doesnt? Why did they make me buy coverage ill never use like maternity services? If i buy fire insurance for my house should they be allowed to charge me boating insurance even tho i do not own a boat or like going out in them?

The cost of healthcare went up for me to the point I avoid it. This is not some meme this is real life for me.

>>136248455
>Nigger, premiums doubled between 2001-2008.
Back then you could still get a cheap catastrophic plan or just not have insurance

>>136248455
everything you just said is absolute bullshit. do me a favor, go search the internet for just ONE person, ONE, complaining of denial of care or treatment prior to obamasurance. screen shot it and bring it back here. i bet you cant... because it didnt exist. smoke and mirrors. bait and switch. ffs can you people just stop lying. please. for once.

>>136248455
>the uninsured often don't have access to comprehensive to preventative care, which is the most cost effective method of keeping the population healthy and costs stable.
Here's the thing about that: the smart thing to have done would have been to limit any kind of mandated coverage to simply that. There was no need to go any further.

>>136248455
you keep supplimenting the word "coverage and insurance" for the word TREATMENT and CARE. knock it off. oh wait. your arguments are completely null if you do that huh.

>>136248455
>preventative care
If it actually kept costs down women would be cheaper to insure than men

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>>136247782
Why do you think I'm mad?
>>136247904
>muh ungrateful niggers are just leeching off this program
Nigger please. the GOP and Trump are cucks who are perfectly fine with keeping medicare that absorbs most of the medical costs of old boomers--white and non-white alike--that consists of most of the medical costs in the US. The average medicare recipient consumes far more in medical costs than what they take in. if we had a more public system, it would reduce the costs non-eldery niggers create by focusing on preventative care and rationing based on health standards--like many other nations already have. Our private system has enabled decadence and glutony so long as it pays the bill; the problem with that is once it's ingrained on the collective population, the negligent uninsured also become it and drive up costs on everyone else.

>>136247133
obvious shill

your shareblue kike boss should fire your sorry ass

>>136248572
this. YEP. and if you didnt have insurance and got sick, call hospital admin, claim hardship and move on.

follow the money /pol/ something benefited from obamasurance and it WASNT sick people

>>136249087
>focusing on preventative care
this is just subsidizing hypochondriacs

>>136249191
right anon and can you think of a single poor person who was denied this preventative care prior to obamasurance? now middle class working joe has to cough up the cost and wait months for this care PRIOR TO SEEING A DOCTOR. what a cuck obamasurance has been for us all

>>136247546
I see my tax bill every year tou retardsd peasant. You arent looting the rich to pay for yourinsurance, you are looting the middle class and giving it to the rich.

>wonders why its taking anon probamasurance shill soooo long to find an example of a poor person denied treatment or care PRIOR to obamasurance

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>>136248758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKtROmiJL8&
>>136248902
roughly 80% of the population doesn't make enough money to pay out of pocket for basic and standard medical and surgical treatment that might occur to them. insurance is therefor required for most of them to realistically get access to it.
>>136248819
that's arguable. still doesn't negate the pre-existing conditions barring people and lifetime cost caps kicking people with chronic conditions off once they become too costly.
>>136248572
most of those cheap catastrophic plans barely covered anything in actual catastrophic treatment. what you're fondly remembering is just a facade.

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>>136242336

Are you serious, nigger?

We are spending our tax dollars taking care of foreign pieces of shit, legal and illegal, while our fellow Americans suffer

>>136242336
Because it was designed from the beginning to fail in such a way people panic and beg for single payer which no one in their right mind wants....the govt controls health they control everything....no sugar,no salt,if it might be unhealthy that causes them to payout they will sqush it...they don't like your political views and your case keeps going to the bottom of the pile.

>>136247655
If you peasants want a big government nanny state and free healthcare i suggest you move to europe. Keep pushing this here in the US and your gonna get war. This country is already cracking over ACA, imagine single payer and the gov misusing info and access to push leftist agenda. No thanks. Time to kill you plebs and take this country back.

Kind of like how they make really sick vets wait 6+ months for care in the hope they die

>>136249672
>most of those cheap catastrophic plans barely covered anything in actual catastrophic treatment. what you're fondly remembering is just a facade.
And Obamacare makes me pay for crap I dont want like mental health care

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>>136249721
fuck yeh anon!!!! with you all the way.

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>>136249087
Single-payer doesn't lower the amount of money spent on healthcare in an economy because it's efficient, it lowers the amount of money spent on healthcare in an economy because it forces people who would otherwise be purchasing high-premium, high-quality health insurance with innovative and on-demand treatment into a socialist Bizarro world of month-long wait times and mediocre factory-like healthcare.

Single-payer may lower the amount of money spent on healthcare, but it by no means lowers the cost. It simply collectivizes the cost by forcing enormous increases in taxation on all classes. In reality, the individual cost of paying taxes for single-payer DRASTICALLY EXCEEDS even current U.S. premiums jacked up by Obamacare and other regulatory shitshows except for the poorest people.

>tl;dr pic related

if it wasnt broke, dont fix it. stop stealing from the middle class saying MUH POOR MUH PREEXISTING. fates wheel spins. get cancer. die. fail to fill out proper paperwork for our already overly generous welfare, also die.

>>136245109
Spoken like someone who doesn't pay for their insurance.

My premiums increased 53% along with my deductibles. Not only that I lost coverage despite having to pay MORE for my insurance.

Now you're advocating Single-Payer which would would be a tax increase?

Do you hate working/middle class, anon?

>>136249716
Thank Lieberman for denying a public option in the original plan. There were also too many Blue Dog Dems to go full Single Payer back then so they cobbled together Romneycare to give TEH FREE PRIVATE MARKET a shot at the ball. If the private sector with a mandatory consumer base and 20% maximum profit margin won't enter the market then it's their own fault.

>>136249721
Well the EU certainly controls costs better than our bastard hybrid system and I don't see mortality and morbidity rates that are inferior to ours either.

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you cant make the rich get on welfare, but you can sure as hell over burden the middle class with falseflag insurance mandates until theyre broke and end up on welfare.

is the health savings account not a thing anymore?
for most young and healthy people that would be worth the risk to save money instead of paying the high insurance amount.
that and maybe cheap catastrophic insurance for anything very expensive

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>>136249087
Niggersof all shapes and sizes means fat entitled white cunts too. I was using the term in its collectively pejorative form. Yes Black people are poor, but there is a god damn reason fat people were excluded from cheap government provided heath care. They cost too damn much and it was their fault in the first place. King Nigger insurance just guaranteed the collapse of our world leading healthcare system. Just so he can force one of Alinsky's goalposts closer to it's finish line.

>>136249716
>and beg for single payer which no one in their right mind wants..
most polls and Donald J. Trump would say otherwise.
>.the govt controls health they control everything....no sugar,no salt,if it might be unhealthy that causes them to payout they will sqush it...they don't like your political views and your case keeps going to the bottom of the pile

in most countries with single-payer or universal healthcare systems, have private insurances and services for those who don't want to use government provided ones. public schools are also run by the government, but you can send your kid to a private one or homeschool them if you don't like them.
>>136249721
nope. I'm staying, and I'm donating bigly to Democrats in my area. If war is what to happen, then war is what you're going to get, anon. I don't want it to, but I don't like seeing my fellow citizens getting jewed by private insurances while you guys keep on blocking common-sense healthcare proposals because of "fucking niggers". At this point, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.
>>136249823
Fair enough. But the reasoning of why it's hard to remove those mandated services in the recent proposed bills is that a lot of them weren't getting coverage for it by most private insurances on the marketplace before Obamacare. I can see your reasoning for not wanting a plan with mental health or paternity coverage, but there's a large portion of the population that only have access to those services through insurances with that care that wouldn't often be able to without the mandate on insurances to provide it. It is, I believe, for the collective good--just like paying taxes for firefighters and police are too.

>>136245109
>the rate of increase was drastically reduced and controlled from what it was before.

Why do liberals just lie like that?

>>136249953
Yep anyone who's been through medical treatment in the military knows they will have you go through months of ineffective treatment before handing you off to a specialist. I knew a guy with a broken patella who was given multiple rounds of prescription ibuprofen before he was allowed an X-ray. By the time he got the X-ray his patella had fractured into dust and required complete replacement and the dude now walks with a cane at the age of 26. Also when incorrect care is ordered it's still performed a lot of the time. Knew a guy who got referred to a urologist but the guy who actually keyed in the appointment made one with a proctologist. He walked in thinking he was going to get his bladder issue discussed and instead got a camera up his ass. He was told that if he refused this treatment his treatment 'pipeline' would come to a halt.

Take Motrin and drink water is a meme in thet community because of the range of serious conditions PAs try to treat with it in order to avoid sending patients to higher care. Shit is an absolute joke and I've got no idea why people push for it. You want socialized healthcare just buy a big bottle of Motrin and take them 5-8 at a time when you feel bad.

its simple logic. force the middle class into poverty, get them hooked on welfare then threaten to take it away if they dont vote for your people.

our government is like a dirty scandalous drug dealer. enjoy the welfare and once youre hooked well be asking for that vote.

>>136250741
>just like paying taxes for firefighters and police are too.
neither of these are redistributive programs

>>136250994
There is nothing wrong with welfare. Why shouldn't the voters get programs to fill in the holes in their standard of living to make up for the ravages of post-industrialism?

>>136242336
It's actually Romneycare 2.0
He took a disaterous plan for Massachusetts, and applied it to the entire country. Nobody takes it. Doctors hate it. A social worker decides if your getting treatment. It is a collosal failure.
Healthcare is not a right.

>>136251344
welfare can be a good thing, but just like the studies done in haiti after the quakes, its been proven to cripple the autonomy of otherwise able bodied people. helping the less fortunate is great in my opinion, however to help or not should be MY choice and creating generations of welfare dependant people inleu of autonomy is only crippling progress.

>>136249953
>Single-payer doesn't lower the amount of money spent on healthcare in an economy because it's efficient,

except it does, with getting rid of the insurance middle men, pointless admin costs, and not jewing patients by proscribing the most expensive diagnosis tests and treatment for basic illnesses does save money.

>high-quality health insurance with innovative and on-demand treatment into a socialist Bizarro world of month-long wait times and mediocre factory-like healthcare.

The US doesn't excel over all other developed countries with single-payer with wait times or quality care, and when it does in a few areas, it's only by fractions of a percent or a few percent and is statistically negligible for all the flaws it has in retrospect.
> It simply collectivizes the cost by forcing enormous increases in taxation on all classes

canada, and a lot of other developed nations with single-payer systems have lower taxation rates than us. And in many of them, those making median and average income often pay lower rates than we do here. And oh yeah, our current public medical insurance programs--like Medicare and Medicaid--which operate more as vouchers, consist nearly as nearly as much as our total GDP (~8%) as they do as total medical expenditures (both public and private costs) in countries with universal healthcare systems (8-11%). Our system has nothing to show but massive flaws.
>>136250148
Roughly 1/3rd of the population has chronic conditions that would be affected by getting rid of pre-existing conditions, and most people in their lifetime get them. Medicaid's coverage is restricted in most States and wouldn't be able to cover those who lose insurance from pre-existing conditions mandate getting removed, especially if Republicans get their way and cut Medicaid spending.

It's a massing handout to (((insurance companies)))

>>136250789
Furthermore there's no real mechanism for financial redress when these hacks fuck up. That patella dude could have been a tidy little sum in damages as a civilian but instead he got like 20k from the government when he was medically retired. Another dude dislocated and broke his ankle and the docs pinned the ankle back together dislocated. 26k and medically retired.

These guys had legit malpractice lawsuits and just got fucked. What's more the healthcare people who fucked up faces no consequences and are still out there treating people.

>>136251097
yes they are. most fire-fighters and police departments are funded locally by property taxes, that disproportionately are paid for by those with higher-valued property owners, which in turn serve everyone--both rich and poor--without fee for basic services.

>>136251740
well VA doctors and military doctors arent required to hold the same licensure as civi doctors. i need to research but ive heard they arent even held to the same medical board approvals or state requirements

>>136242336
>Why OBAMACARE wasn't a great thing for America ?
Because it was designed to be an intermediary until single payer. Democrats assumed in 2008 that they'd never lose an election again so in a couple cycles they could introduce single payer in congress.

Also any socialized program that encompasses 300+ million people over 4 million square miles is going to be corrupt and inefficient as fuck, as well as expensive.

>>136242336
The talking points go something like: republicans offered hundreds of amendments and states opted out of some of it, thereby failing

>>136251664
insurance should be a choice. an option. NOT a mandate if i wanna play rulet with the cost of cancer, it should be MY choice. not yours or the governments.

>>136242428
That and 35/50 states have had negative effects under Obamacare. The remaining states that have had some positive effects have only heen in the large cities while the more rural areas have suffered. Best example I can't think of is Portland Oregon. The city's premiums and coverage have been ok under Obamacare but the rest of the state has greatly suffered due to it.

>>136252202
i wonder if thats cause the cost of living there is already so high, one could suppose their income is higher and less impacted as persay joe in iowa making 7.50 an hour.

>>136242336

It stopped Boogie from dying.

Obamacare is retarded because people to this day act like it's single payer healthcare or at least does something for people who can't afford it when it doesn't at all.

In the waning years of the Bush era when Sicko came out and the healthcare meme was really getting pushed by the media, lefties decided that Americans just hate poor people and they needed to get their foot in the door for healthcare with a narrative that didn't involve shaming Americans for not helping the poor. They chose private healthcare providers denying people with preexisting conditions as they plan of attack, since they figured Americans would be more sympathetic to people who were denied care for that reason rather than not being able to afford it because they're poor.

THAT is what Obamacare is designed to "fix." So private healthcare providers were forced to take on people with preexisting conditions with the tradeoff that now everybody would be legally mandated to buy their insurance. This does absolutely zilch for the poor, but because we all fucking know what this whole debate is really about, we act like it does.

Meanwhile poorfags still use medicaid or whatever their state provides like mediCAL and nothing has changed really.

>>136252068
>The talking points go something like: republicans offered hundreds of amendments and states opted out of some of it, thereby failing
uhh but the ACA isn't failing and even the CBO says so. the only places that are seeing disproportionate rises in premiums are the red states that are literally denying care to the poor and preexisting conditioned without the expansion of medicaid. premiums were always projected to rise because there is still big profit incentives in the way US health care is administered as opposed to every other civilized nation which have had single payer systems for decades. anyone with more than a brain cell knows single payer is the only next logical step, and misinformed, right wing frog posters on /pol/ are kicking and screaming at the thought of helping the poor by taxing the rich LEL

>>136242336
Do you want a redpill?

Obamacare was never meant to be good.

It was meant to bankrupt the health insurance industry and pave the way for single payer.

This will happen if Trump does a bad job as president.

>>136251520
>Nobody takes it.
Depends on the plan and "puts skin in the game" of consumers to lower network costs.
>Doctors hate it.
Screw'em. Their inflated wages are 2/5 the drivers of health service prices.
>A social worker decides if your getting treatment.
Elaborate.
>Healthcare is not a right.
Who says? Rights are a fabrication of man. There are no rights. Then we suddenly decide there are. Why should anyone give an honest damn?

>>136251658
Expect riots if redistribution isn't enacted in one way or another. History shows this is what happens in the absence of widespread welfare. With rampant income and wealth inequality caused by the age of global labor and automation is going to be a terrible problem otherwise.

>>136251664
One thing I've never been able to reconcile is opponents of single-payer systems bitching about "government rationing" & "death panels" on the one hand and either ignoring the same thing when an insurance company does it or complains are sky-rocketing costs when the company is too weak-shit to jackboot the local monopoly hospital and doctors to keep them from renk-seeking obscene amounts of money because they can. DO YOU WANT FREEDOM TO PAY UNLIMITED COSTS OR CONTROL OR NOT? PICK ONE.

>>136251740
You can't sue VA doctors for mistakes? If this some bogus "Tort Reform" I see designed to hold down costs and save the government money?

>>136252481
Medical expense were the number one cause of personal bankruptcies Pre-ACA and still are, but that figure got significantly. Also employer-provided coverage was declining pre-ACA still because it was getting so expensive which is why insurance companies didn't fight it like they did Hillarycare in the early 90s. Hospital closures & insurance mergers were also on the rise because of inflation.
We were always headed down this road. The status quo was never going to be an option and we're still not near the end of it nearly 8 years later.

It's a market based solution to something that has no business being dependent on markets

>>136251658
What is your solution, for there to be a permanent class of impoverished people? Welfare that works for everyone and decommodification of essential shit is the only way to prevent this with mounting automation and global labor

>>136242336
Obama who is shaping up to be the most corrupt president the united states has had in history bailed out a massive insurance company (AIG) and then signed into law a bill that forced every american to get health insurance and if they did not have health insurance it would charge them a fine and pay that fine to health insurance companies anyway.

>>136245887
>1. You don't have to drive on public roads
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAH.

Obamacare reads out like a fucking nightmare.

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>>136242336
Social assistance in general props up the persona non-grata and burdens the able bodied and fortunate. The world and each nation need less people and the Jew keeps fighting this as they want their shekel pile to keep growing bigger and bigger, faster and faster.

>>136242336
Because it was a great thing for the wealthy insurance investors.

We don't have our demographics figured out to be stable enough to support a socialist state

>>136242428
Basically this
The company I worked at changed their insurance plan every year since it was enacted to try to save money, but each year the employee and company both paid more.

>>136253216
>pave the way for single payer.
It does this in more ways than one. It was also a number fudging game. People are shaken down by the feds into buying into an overpriced shit healthcare plan that you can't ever use, number of insured metric gets shilled as a win. Thus prepping the new generation that "healthcare is a right". It was only meant to last 8 years, enough time to brainwash a new generation of youngsters.
But it's not really insurance if you have to pay $6000 in premiums only to be covered after a $7500 in deductible. $13500 before anything is covered, and even then, it's not covering 100%. This isn't talked about to children.
Number of insured doesn't matter. If people weren't forced to buy into this crap, no one would by such an outrageous shitcare plan. It's like a mafia shake down number fudging game that the dims are using to brainwash and subvert a new generation.

>>136250789
Motrin is the Militarys Magic Cure-All......fucking witch doctors the entire time and these retards want this for the whole country

>>136245109
T. Somebody who isn't actually on niggercare

>all these conservatards complaining about increasing healthcare costs in a privatized/non-single payer state

what exactly are you retards arguing for to keep these costs down? do you think deregulation is going to do that? if you deregulate the healthcare industry, the only people that are profitable to care for are going to be the healthy, young, and more importantly, the wealthy. are you saying everyone else is shit out of luck and should fucking die? every other first world country has figured this nonsensical shit out with a single payer system, we're the only ones retarded enough to buy into 1% free market propaganda. the free market does not work when public goods and services are concerned, you fucking dolts, it only works with stupid shit you don't need like waxing your car or fast food

>>136242895
>Why don't the state can help everybody for health ?

because they need to steal that money, why would they spend it on people's heath?

>>136242336
it tripled my taxes or it would have if I bought it. doiung this only doubled my taxes but I did not get anything for it. I thought it was a good trade off if you could call it good at all.

>>136242336
>are you middle class?
>well guess what you're now going to fund the poor's insurance
>while getting worse coverage for yourself
My cost did not go down, it went up. I make 60k a year. How can I support my family if my costs continue to go up. It's yet another restriction on the middle class into making it impossible to have children.

>>136258836
go fuck your wife asshole.

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>>136245109
>the rate of increase was drastically reduced
What do you want me to show you? I can't get coverage as cheap as I was before, this is a fact and the coverage I'm getting is worse than before.

I show the minimums to you to enlighten the truth upon you. All plans across the board were like this.

>>136252094
It is an option. You can pay the fine or get a waiver.
>>136253216
do you want a red-pill? Trump wrote to great length that single-payer is the answer back in 2000 and would sign a bill that's just that if it ever comes on his desk.

>>136259024
Its not all about fucking after a few years. I want every person here to have a wife of their same race and the ability to raise a family with her if you are at the least middle class.

Obamacare and single payer systems will cause middle class more burden.

>>136259264
make a fucking kid dick or were going to have a real fucking idiocracy on our hands.

>>136248563
This is why single-payer is inevitable. Republicans are too scared/lobbied to actually let the free market take over while more and more people become unwilling to buy private insurance because premiums are out of control.

>>136259088
those ACA premiums are plans on the individual exchange which was near-non existent before Obamacare.

>>136259413
>doesn't respond to the topic
Low IQ retard detected

>>136259675
give a solution. right now you are just complaining.

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>>136259501
Okay then show me that they were near non-existent. Provide proof that they were.

My coverage as well as many others went up in price down in quality.

What else can I show you that that is the case?

>>136259787
>still unable to respond to the topic at hand
Low IQ Retard detected

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>>136259088
>MUH ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OR REPUTABLE, PEER REVIEWED STUDIES

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/07/21/obamacare-premiums-are-lower-than-you-think/

Since the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) health insurance marketplaces first took effect in 2014, news story after story has focused on premium increases for certain plans, in certain cities, or for certain individuals. Based on preliminary reports, premiums now appear set to rise by a substantial amount in 2017.

What these individual data points miss, however, is that average premiums in the individual market actually dropped significantly upon implementation of the ACA, according to our new analysis, even while consumers got better coverage. In other words, people are getting more for less under the ACA.

Covered California, that state’s marketplace, just announced premium increases averaging 13.2 percent. But even if premiums increase by the 10 or 15 percent overall that some are predicting for 2017, they will still be far lower than premiums otherwise would have been in the absence of the law. Moreover, this analysis does not include the effects of premium and cost-sharing subsidies that serve to make ACA marketplace plans more affordable for many people.

>>136259949
literally every middle class American is a direct argument against your bullshit cooked statistics.
You sound like that jew Sherman, who also happens to be in the pocket of the insurance companies.

Obamacare is a cancer on America that is destroying the middle class. No amount of skewed statistics will change this fact.

>>136257279
>every other first world country has figured this nonsensical shit out with a single payer system
They were also small and ethnically homogeneous (not even just white, but a certain phenotype of white in each country) until recently.

>>136251954
>being this retarded
Firefighters don't pose an unbalanced financial burden on the middle class, and they also don't require a deductible payment before they out out your house.

>>136260290
They also were being subsidized by other, larger countries.
All this nigger is doing is repeating the same old talking points the insurance agencies paid to be created when obamacare was instituted. He is even linking one of their websites.

Pure shill. Anyone who pays for their own healthcare knows how shit obamacare is.

>>136259903
here my take on it. >>136257635
but without solutions its just complaining.

>>136258836
>My cost did not go down, it went up.
isn't that the whole point of privatized goods and services, you jack ass? in what alternative reality do you live in where business owners say to themselves, HMMM I WON'T CHARGE OUT THE ASS FOR INELASTIC GOODS AND SERVICES AND PROVIDE THEM AT COST TO THE PEOPLE OUT OF MY OWN GOOD WILL AT THE EXPENSE OF MY PROFITS.

the ACA was a middle ground between single payer and privatized shit that is headed out the door soon enough, but dumb ass republican voters are too stupid for their own good and hold us back to the inevitable reality that has a well known liberal bias

>>136242336

Obamacare is the system for compulsory health insurance for working people that are self-employed or don't get it from their employers. It forces people to buy insurance and subsidizes it for people who can barely afford it.

It's not the Medicaid expansion. The Medicaid expansion was just the "pork" attached to it to get a lot of Democrats to vote for it.

Liberals defend it even though it's not single payer... which is what they really want.

The companies providing healthcare for people on the exchanges are losing money and want a bailout.

Many people on the exchanges are subprime clients, might as well be on Medicaid or Medicare.

It's a clusterfuck. Things were probably better before.

>>136260608
can't tell if plebbit or really good troll

>>136259949
>muh averages
what is population density
See:
>>136259840

>>136261000
since you obviously can't read

>>136259949
>But even if premiums increase by the 10 or 15 percent overall that some are predicting for 2017, they will still be far lower than premiums otherwise would have been in the absence of the law. Moreover, this analysis does not include the effects of premium and cost-sharing subsidies that serve to make ACA marketplace plans more affordable for many people.

there is a reason only the US is fucked in the ass with healthcare when compared to every other advanced nation, and it's not because of brown people. every other nation has their privatized plans costs lowered to compete with the government administered ones that are practically equal in quality. we're fucking ass backwards here

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I feel good to live in Canada

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>>136261655

>>136260641
well not really because they are paying the same as the working poor. the problem is forcing people that dont want insurance to buy it because thats the only way insurance works. its like banking, make the services outragously expensive so that you have to have insurance to be able to afford them. Its like the banking jew. the solution is for the services to be affordable. property insurance is fine because its not a literal life threatening situation but when peoples lives are at stake there should be no jewery involved. the problem with that though is it devalues the industry so people arent motivated to become doctors because it is a morbid occupation and requires a lot of school.

The final solution is to remove the jew. no mortgages no interest. no insurance, lower health care costs. if you want to know how to save the world look at all the good things from both parties combine them remove the bullshit attached and you have just made a great government.

>>136261655
I didn't know some people enjoyed being crippled critically when coming in to refill a prescription.

>>136261655
its full of browns!