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/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL

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This is a thread for the discussion of all ideologies that promote property rights, individual liberty and lassez-faire capitalism. These includes (but is not limited to) anarcho-capitalism, paleolibertarianism, minarchy, objectivism and anti-leftism (i.e. physical removal, so to speak). All others are welcome to learn and debate us.
Reminder that this is a right-wing thread, so libertine degenerates ('live and let live' faggotry), open-border advocates and faux-libertarians (e.g. Gary Johnson) are not welcome here - people here recognise that property rights imply discrimination and a return to traditional, conservative values.
Although questions are welcome, many are repeated often, so it is recommended you research the basics first. Nobody here is obligated to debate with you, so try to avoid using fallacies in your arguments or creating unrealistic scenarios.

THREAD RESOURCES:
>Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/iT0Rw8PT
>Website: libertarianright.org
>Discord & Book Club: /jCVRCR3

REQUIRED READING:
>The Machinery Of Freedom: Illustrated Summary (David Friedman) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o (Watch this!)
>Anatomy of the State (Murray Rothbard) - https://mises.org/library/anatomy-state
>Democracy: The God that Failed (Hans Hermann-Hoppe) - http://www.riosmauricio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Hoppe_Democracy_The_God_That_Failed.pdf

FURTHER READING:
>Reference - See https://i.imgur.com/wCIpgNA.jpg
>Torrent - magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8d8ec6ef882dee291f119eb69994797574e5d616&dn=Anarcho-Capitalism%20Books

THREAD THEME:
>hoppewave | Hans-Hermann Hoppe | physical removal - youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ
>Against the State - (Hoppewave Hans Hermann Hoppe) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLaqr3QorCw
>I need a Pinochet! - youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o
>Drop it like it's Hoppe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPKGgo4kGQM
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Respect. Best thread.
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I found that articulate black guys discord. It's pretty gay.
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>>135785256
i miss pinochet
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>>135785032
Would you guys be ok with open borders if the Civil Rights Act was repealed and immigrants weren't allowed welfare?

I know most of you are traditionalists but the economic gains could be pretty significant.
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>>135785032
How do you protect the environment?
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>>135786344
thatguyT?
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cringe thread
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>>135787151
Yeah. It's pretty degenerate.
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>>135787063
If public property were abolished as well. Maybe. I still wouldn't let Mexicans near my covenant.
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>>135787113
By abolishing public land
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>>135787113
if you're polluting other people's property then that's breaking the NAP and you're getting sued. you're not polluting your own property because it would lower its value just like it would for ex: your house

so the environment would be more protected
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>>135785032
OK here is a problem for Libertarians to solve, Gommies already got their solution and now i need to hear yours to make up my mind :

Lets say companies now increase the robot work force to up to 90%. This could lead to mass unemployment and consequently a huge crash since no one would have money to buy the stuff being produced in large scales. Since trying to hold production is retarded what are you as a libertarian propose ?

The gommie alternative :
Increase taxes on the companies that own robots. The more robots more taxes. With that money they would pay wages to the people for existing. If people still want to contribute to society they would ger more money (for exemple people producing papers in the university would get more money, conducting experiments, scientific breakthrough etc), as for example producing art(dont even ask me how would that work).

So Libertarians what is your solution ?
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>>135787113
Complex question, but for the most part the restoration of property rights to their absolute level should fix the issue.
The simple fact here that lies at the heart of the issue is that polluting property is an act of aggression. Since we hold that all property should be private, you're either polluting your property or others. Of course, no rational person pollutes their own property, it would be economic madness.
Again, polluting other's property constitutes an act of aggression - this should be perused through the court systems. This is actually how this used to work, for example in the industrial revolution, people would take out class-action lawsuits under tort law against companies that harmed them with their pollution. Government of course ended this - by granting companies immunity to these, setting a set amount they were allowed to pollute, so that the economy wouldn't be 'hampered'. As far as I know, the same problem exists in the USA today - you can sue companies that pollute, but not class action, and obviously it's too infeasible for everyone nearby to sue.
There's other factors to consider, for example that government is a major agent of pollution anyway, having no incentive to preserve the 'public' property they hold. This problem holds true for many cases of public property - for example, governments renting out forests to logging companies, with no replanting occuring; or in the oceans, where companies have no reason to do aquaculture and preserve the oceans, since they can't own property in the ocean.
But to be short, pollution is managed by a comprehensive system of property rights and recognising over pollution as a crime.
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You stupid niggers
Ancap doesn't work
The State needs to own things such as healthcare and school to ensure quality
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>>135788528
>He thinks public schools are of quality.
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>>135788486
This question has never made sense. In a world where everyone is unemployed because of the automation boogieman, there's nobody to buy goods, so why would capitalists ever allow this?
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>>135787113
if you let say pollute a river or a lake your neighbor should sue you since your action is devaluating his property.
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>>135786421
>no roads
Kek'd
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A new one
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>>135788764
its obvious : because producing faster and better is easy attainable using robots. Also with better energy sources we might be able to make robots work so cheap it would be a bad idea to employ someone to do a job a machine can do. It can be done and will eventually happen. The state will obviously make laws to prevent it, but producing more is better than stop producing since it means more value.
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>>135785032
do libertarians have a religion? if so, what and why?
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>>135789110
Nice.
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>>135788764
>In a world where everyone is unemployed because of the automation boogieman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smmLfwU5W-4

"those who do not study can allways flip b... oh wait".
>>
I promised in a previous thread that I would post the notes I took on the recent Corax conference from Hoppe:

1) Libertarianism as we know was created in Rothbard's house

2) We need private property for conflict avoidance

3) Talked about lockean appropriation

4) Talked about fake libertarians and how we need them as useful idiots

5) Our enemies are people who advocate for taxes, state, human rights, anti discrimination, minimum income, etc

6) Trump has proven to be a fluke even though he was hopeful

7) Alt right has no theory behind them to unite them, they have the presence though, so we should attempt to add theory to that movement

8) Egalitarian libertarianism is a mistake, need to understand differences of people

9) Alt right is only united by hate of globalism

10) Burn on stupids (students) for liberty, Jeffrey "foe" Tucker, Richard Spencer for going socialist

11) The NAP is not enough for a prosperous society, just the minimum all humans should agree on.

12) Multiculuturalism destroys libertarian order and generates a lack of trust between society members.

13) We must hate statists and idiots, our enemy is deep state, educators, MSM

14) White heterosexual men get the most criticism even though we are the biggest contrinutors to society

15) The strategy must be libertarian populism, headed by Mises institute, Rothbard and Hoppe himself

16) 10 steps we need to follow:
>stop mass immigration
>stop external wars and conflict generation
>defund elites
>end central banks
>end anti discrimination
>crush antifas and sjws
>crush criminals and gangs
>get rid of welfare bums
>Get the state out of education
>distrust all politicians
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>>135788528
>state healthcare and school
>quality
lmao, aren't mass starvation and commieblocks proof enough this is false?
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>>135788486
Under those conditions stock ownership (any stock basically) would allow for basic livelihood, specially without inflation directing all our wealth towards inelastic demand products.

This would give us time to come up with new ways to differenciate ourselves and make us useful again. Craftmanship was replaced by industry, and industry will be replaced by craftmanship. Rich people buy handmade shoes, poor people buy industrial shoes, if everyone is rich, everyone buys handmade shoes.

People will be able to work much less in order to have good living conditions and will retire much earlier.

Unlike the UBI or communism, stock ownership directs funds towards productive enterprises. Our education will need to shift heavily to recognizing good business opportunities (it should already but states don't want us to become rich).
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>>135789592
Wonderful, is there any video of this talk out yet?
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Also if you guys keep this thread bumped long enough I'll get you that Paleo crew image made.
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>>135787063
As mentioned before public property also has to be removed so there is only private property and every property owner can decide for himself who to let in or not. This process of border control could of course be outsourced or could be done togehter with people who share the same interest as you
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>>135791143
not sure if they will go full jew and release it for people who paid for it or if they'll make it public. I hope the latter and I will try to let my opinion known in their forum.
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>>135789110
a good one
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Hey guys, I'm from r/Anarcho_Capitalism. It's neat to see a thriving island of sensible freedom lovers even in this racist hellhole.

I've been thinking about how to convert the alt-right nazi Trump sympathizers. Trump has done some good things but closing the borders is borderline fascist.

I think one first step is to point out that there would be no Trump without Ron Paul blazing the trail.

The only issue would be convincing them to be less racist. It would really be bad publicity if they carried all this anti-black, anti-semitic, white supremacist garbage into our pristine and egalitarian intellectual garden of Eden. Unlike others, I think these people are salvageable.

One idea is pointing out how many jews Trump employs. They seem pretty attached to him. Also, I think it's pretty trivial to prove to them that Africa isn't a shithole because of either race OR imperialism, but due to communism and foreign entanglements.

That's all for now. Cheers!
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>>135788528
>healthcare and school
Of all the things you could have chosen (military, police, roads) you chose healthcare and school?
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>>135789224
I personally do not and I think most libertarians don't either but libertarianism isn't opposed to the idea of religion. Following a religion or being member of a church is voluntary so there is no problem with that.
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>>135792428
8/10 pretty good.
Could have been better if you said Jeffery Tucker or Byran Caplan was your hero.
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>>135792583
I think makes sense. Im not religious but I'm sorta of the idea that there is a grand hierarchy. Seems compatible with libertarianism
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>>135788528
What can the state do to ensure quality that private firms cannot?
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>>135787063
No. Abolish public property like the other guy said first.
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>>135785032

This is so cringy, only autistic retards without a slight sense of reality and human nature would be an-caps
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>>135789224
Most libertarians seem to be areligious. That being said, the Christian church today is basically a tax-free voluntary organization completely separate from the state, with its own charities and militias (in the case of the middle east), so I'd imagine that even though libertarians trend towards agnosticism they can respect the position of Christianity today.
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>>135789592
Thank you based Malta.
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>>135793663
Notice that this is not an ancap thread, this is a libertarian thread.
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>>135793088
A lot of things are compatible with libertarianism including a white ethno state and hippie communes. The point is just that you do not force your livestyle or ideology onto others.
It always saddens me when I see people who would find just what they are looking for i a libertarian society go into the complete opposite direction. It always seems to be easyer to define what you hate rather than to describe what you want.
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>>135793663
You seem in dire need of a helicopter ride my socialist friend
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>>135789110
kek
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>>135792708
Thanks. I was hoping for more (you)s but oh well.
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>>135793808
Same shit

Daily reminder that Capitalism can ONLY exist with a strong goverment that protects the system.
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>>135792428
>>135793908
Here's your (You), faggot. Now leave
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>>135793908
That got a good chuckle out of me. But if you want the (you)s try and make it seem legit. You should call Paleolibertarians and Hoppeans Nazis pretending to be libertarians.
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>>135794223
Chile understands this. Just ask Pinochet.
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>>135789592
>crush antifas and sjws
There might be a different side to this argument.
Those people make the left look bad wich in return drives people more to the right. If we defeat them we are just helping the left to get rid of their more ugly brothers and sisters.
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>>135794346
Thanks for the tip. I don't really want to lurk that place myself to get more informed desu.
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>>135785032
>Ayn Rand
>Milton Friedman
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>>135794520
I don't think the left cares much about how they look as long as they control the narrative.
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>>135794415
That's only because he took advise from (((Friedman))). A Hoppe coached monarchy would rek pinochet.
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>>135794223
Most of the people in this thread support Pinochet. No one is saying that, in the capacities that a state should serve, it shouldn't serve strongly. A nation ought to have a strong military, police force, and border control. The rest can probably be handled by the private sector.
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>>135794707
I disagree, "moderate" leftists want to destroy sjws because they make their agenda look bad. I think they are a good eye opener for right leaning people.
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>>135785032
>falling for the new jewish intellectual movement

You morons, libertarian society would just mean direct consolidation of power for central banks and private banks during the transition.
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>>135794707
Yes once they do, they don't care anymore (see venezuela). But we are sadly living in a democatic society and they have to be elected first. If they are associated with those commies most people wont vote for them because they are opposed to the methodes they are using (violence).
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>>135794962

I don't get why you want to be the servants of a elite plutocratic system, lolbertarians seems massive cucks, the typical sycophant.

A Pinochet like capitalism wouldnt survive anyway, you need to make plebs happy and throw free gibs sometimes, you cant just kill opposition and expect people will not chimpout someday, why do you think the more savvy capitalists like Buffett are liberals?
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>>135795185
Yeah, that's why we want to abolish central banking amiright? You're a big government shill. Don't pretend you oppose central banking.
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>>135795185
>National (((Socialism)))
We are just as opposed to central banks as you are. Thats why we support the gold standart and bitcoin.
>>
Privatized communism general.
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>>135795546
>I don't get why you want to be the servants of a elite plutocratic system
I don't, by increasing the economic freedom society has you raise the amount of competition, thus allowing for smaller businesses to prosper over bigger business which use government regulations and high taxes to prevent competition.

>you need to make plebs happy and throw free gibs sometime
Not if you just kill them whenever they rebel.
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>>135795598
How are you going to abolish them?

As soon as state loses power the people who control the money supply gain power directly. I'm not pro jewish usury and war profiteering.
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>>135795057
Only in those places where they're losing the narrative. I know we tend to look at the US political scene as reference but the US is the exception here imo, in the rest of the world they still get away with things such as Hamburg's antifa revolt.
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>>135795685
Production based currency is better because it creates a deflation based society, which with a government dedicated to optimizing the utility of the race (volk) can ensure steady wages and no market collapses from speculators. Not to mention interest free loans, which pay for themselves in the long run by relative change in currency value over time due to loans being used to boost production/consumption.
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>>135785032

Which strain of Libertarianism is best suited for a white supremacist like myself. I feel that National Socialism turns into puritanical shit and eventually aims at it's own people. I think heroin should be legal which National Socialists vehemently oppose. I don't want Jews or shitskins to have any power.
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>>135787165
Go back kike
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>>135795989
I hadn't thought about Europe. I could see letting them to wild over there being a bad thing. Over here we laugh at them and whip out our guns when they get too rowdy.
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>I believe in libertarian ideals but only the conservative ones xDDDD

Fucking retards, the lot of you.
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>>135796066
>Interest-free loans
>Pay for themselves
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>>135796255
Yes, because socialism is so libertarian.
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>>135789592
Also
>remove non-whites
>remove jews
This is totally ancap friendly.
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>>135796167
Paleolibertarianism
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>>135785032
This thread is why I'm no longer a lolbergtarian.

Even Molymeme is only a bowtie in principle. Get a few drinks in him and he'd be throwing roman salutes and telling Jews to put their teeth on curbs.
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>>135796167

National Socialist looking to deprogram into a drug friendly white libertarian utopia where drugs are legal. Any suggested reading?
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>>135796167
Anyone who doesn't see National Socialism/fascism as a transit state that should be used for removing undesirables is a retard.

There is no way to create a society that has low average time preference, self-reliance and an anti-democratic/anti-communist perspective without having those ideas shoved down their throats.

What alternatives are there to de-globalisation other than fascism, libertarians?
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>>135796855
Right-wing populism + secessionist movements.

Read pic related.
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>>135795989
I agree to some extened. The tolerance for leftist violence in western europe is much greater than in the US and antifa also gets support from establied politicans. But that doesn't mean that things like we saw in hamburg, or every year in germany, aren't pushing a part of the population more to the right.
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>>135796855

I'm just concerned that I'll be killed in a National Socialist state because I'll never give up drugs, and I'll never give up extreme sex fantasies.

I do view the removal of the Jew as the most important goal. But I've received enough backlash from National Socialists that I don't think it's for me. I've been likened to a kike and that's just not acceptable. It's a slap in the face to someone like me who has studied the Jewish question for over a decade.
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>>135797360
>I'll never give up drugs, and I'll never give up extreme sex fantasies.
You're making us all look bad, you know?
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>>135796521
You don't get it, do you?
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>>135788486
Let's say most major corporations have robots. Small business could not afford up front cost, as well as mainyanance (ever been in a fast food job where there is no burger flipper on duty? It's a nightmare) because people have a smaller income, products being sold become incredibly cheap and still affordable. The market may change, but it is still a market.
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>>135789224
I actually got into libertarian political thought based on the notion of man's fallibility - if man is a fallen and sinful creature, then no one can be trusted with an inordinate deal of power. While I think the concupiscence of man is axiomatic, and probably accepted my most libertarians, I first received it from Christian doctrine.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Christian libertarianism is a coherent position - the Church is a free association, and charity to the poor ought to be as well, otherwise it has no spiritual content or value. If you force people into the external trappings of religion or moral behavior, then these lose the sanctity that they can only receive from free choice. God could have made us perfect automata, but didn't, so the drive to make human beings moral through coercion is literally Satanic.

My reasoning for accepting Christianity are in C.S. Lewis' books, which I recommend to everyone. Faith is a large part of it, which is why I refuse to try and force anyone to accept my religion, but I think it is my duty to answer this kind of question when it's asked.
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>>135797895

The cursory research I've done into Hoppe suggests he would be a drug warrior.
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>>135797895
YES
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>>135798005
he's a chainsmoker that's for sure
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>>135797895
This is the greatest thing since bread came sliced ;_;
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>>135798059
I didn't know he was the cussing type, I always assumed he was kinda put off by that. Kek I wonder what he stars saying once he has a few drinks. One drink away from becoming Pinochet.
>>
Are there any good Paleolibertarian type forums aside from the mish-mash of /pol/

I was on Daily Stormer for a while but I got shoahed by the puritan cunts.
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>>135797360
Um, in a Libertarian society you are free from oppression, but not free from damage you do to yourself. No society can protect you from your own choices.
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>>135798277
The talk we had about IQ was fucking funny, he was asking someone all the time to bring him beer and at some point one girl came by to listen right after we were done speaking about women being terrible at chess and he explaining the bell curve on women IQ lol.

Btw, 8% women at most lmao, one or two were attractive tho.
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>>135798593
Christ I'd kill a commie or two to have been able to attend. That sounds hilarious
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>>135798469

Do you think the bad Jews would self deport in a libertarian society? The welfare shitskins too? Or do we need strong racial laws?
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>>135789224
libertarian catholic here, it's sometimes awkward being around so many atheists or fedora tipping "deists".
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>>135798867
I'm not sure how that relates to my post. It should be up to the communities to decide who's allowed to stay or come.
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>>135798277
>>135798059
I knew for sure Hoppe was redpilled on tabacco, I was a little surprised by hearing him cussing. But it makes sense.
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>>135799072

It relates to your post because you say you are opposed to oppression. I'm saying I do also, but only if there is an end game for the Jewish question.
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>>135798459
The discord. Pretty much /lrg/ is the only Paleo crew.
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>>135799266
which discord? do u have a link?
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Anybody know if Cantwell ever recorded that audiobook for Democracy the God that Failed?

>>135789224
I was raised catholic, but my father introduced me to evolutionary science at age 7, and we've both been culturally catholic non-believers ever since.

I've come to the conclusion that religion is something that some people need, and others simply do not. Some people have a hard time coping with reality without creation stories and the like, hence Genesis, and others have a hard time rationalizing their morality without irreducible tenets like the Ten Commandments.
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>>135785032
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bkoasd69hE

Is it pedophilia if the child consents?
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>>135799471
Check the op, (((mods))) filter full links so you gotta put it together.
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>>135799673
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>>135799530
No, and if he did he'd either sell it or hide it behind his paywall. Still worth a subscription, though.
>>
can someone help me get to the discord?

i got /jCVRCR3

but have no idea where to put it, i have discord downloaded
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>>135800688
nvm, got it
>>
the only problem i see with ancap is that it doesnt give a shit about race, and if someone that violated the nap violated it via killing someone, how would that nap violator be taken care of? It also doesn't answer the JQ
>>
>>135801511

maybe if there won't be many cops to arrest you when you "handle" the jew who tryed to rip you off and pervert your kids, or the shitskin who tried to rape your daughter....etc....we do it ourselves we don't have big bad adolf handle it for us
>>
>>135800051
This is pretty much where I stand on the issue.

Saved.
>>
>>135790366
based solution. so Stocks would solve the problem, and new products would show up based more in creativity and uniqueness. I dig it !
>>
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>>135801511
>Doesn't give a shit about race
The problem with statism is that, in almost all areas, you assume that nothing can be done without the government. It's a scary level of indoctrination.
We recognize that all individuals are different, but these differences come in patterns. The average black is less intelligent than the average white, since genes for lower intelligence are correlated, but not exclusive to (or stuck to) the genes for black skin.
The free marketer will look at this and shrug, because whoever inherits the best genes should logically prevail in a completely free market, just as they prevailed in the wilderness and throughout history. There was no government program that wrote history to make sure whites would colonize Africa; that happened because of enterprising whites who were able to exploit their intellectual and technological superiority.

>If someone that violated the NAP violated it via killing someone, how would that nap violator be taken care of?
He'd be taken care of by whatever life insurance
or security agency the victim paid for before dying. Essentially it'd be taken care of the same way that public law enforcement would, except with private law/security enforcement, individuals can negotiate their contracts and purchase whatever plans they prefer (or, if they're stupid, forego the concept of security whatsoever).
>>
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>>135796328
Use your brain. If currency is linked to production, interest free loans can pay for themselves by the deflationary factor from loans being used to increase production and hence the value of the currency. So the relative purchasing power change is your profit.
>>
>>135805503
Dude, listen to yourself. Interest-free loan is literally free money. That's pure communism. Interest-free means a million dollars immediately is worth just as much as a million dollars in a hundred years. It's ridiculous, entirely illogical.
Currency linked to production? What does that even mean? How would this be implemented in practice?
I should also add that gold is deflationary in nature as well, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that everyone in this thread is a goldbug. Gold standard is simple, elegant, and, best of all, decentralized. It's undoubtedly the best solution.
>>
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>>135805503
>currency is linked to production
So you're putting forward the labor theory of value, then?

Carl Menger wrote the best refutation of this, in my opinion:
>There is no necessary and direct connection between the value of a good and whether, or in what quantities, labor and other goods of higher order were applied to its production. A non-economic good (a quantity of timber in a virgin forest, for example) does not attain value for men since large quantities of labor or other economic goods were not applied to its production. Whether a diamond was found accidentally or was obtained from a diamond pit with the employment of a thousand days of labor is completely irrelevant for its value. In general, no one in practical life asks for the history of the origin of a good in estimating its value, but considers solely the services that the good will render him and which he would have to forgo if he did not have it at his command...

Your production currency (or time currency) would become virtually worthless over time, because labor-intensive products would cost too much relative to their value (creating a surplus of such goods) and non-labor-intensive products would cost too little relative to their value (creating a shortage of such goods).
>>
How many of your goys are going to Unite the Right next week?
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>>135785032
>tfw libertine degenerate
c'est la vie
>>
>>135789224
no. i believe in god but not in an organized religious sense, that is authoritarian and slavery.
>>
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>>135796167
i feel kind of similarly
my ideal society is one where white people can do whatever they want and the government fucks off, only existing to keep a military and nonwhites out
>>
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>>135805503
As for your interest-free loans that "pay for themselves", your circular logic pains me.

You're saying
>A loan is given out, interest-free
>This loan is used to boost production
>Since currency is based on production, the value of currency will be increased
>The increased value of currency will thus make the loan easier to pay off
>Rinse and repeat, deflation continues unabated

If this is the case, you clearly have no sense of what deflation is, or even basic economics. Typical natsoc.

Deflation increases the value of currency and, as a result, reduces the price level, especially if they are unanticipated (which will be the case, unless everyone knows about every loan taken out at all times of the day). If this happens to a great enough extent, firms financed by credits go bankrupt because, at the lower level of prices, they can no longer pay back the credits they'd incurred without anticipating the deflation (remember, the nominal value of their credits hasn't changed at all). Private households with mortgages and other considerable debts to pay back go bankrupt as well, because with the decline of money prices their monetary income declines as well (remember, you can't pay your workers more than you earn), whereas, again, debts remain at the nominal level, making the debt essentially unrepayable, interest rates or not.

Perfectly innocent people, your precious volk as it were, are made miserable and poor by this system.
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>>135810859
saved that shit.
>>
>>135809755
In a deflationary or stable economy, I could see interest free loans be more likely to occur for frequent trustworthy borrowers.
>>
>>135785032
Vagrant victimization when?
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>>135814285
now.
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>>135789224
I am an Evangelical Christian, and personally I would only join an ancap community if it was based around strong Christian values.
>>
>>135817938
Tom Woods is a deeply religious ancap; while he's Catholic, you could probably relate:

http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/woods/00330.html
>>
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Bump
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