/lrg/ LATE NIGHT WITH LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL

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>Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property | Lew Rockwell
https://mises.org/library/open-borders-are-assault-private-property
>Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal | Lew Rockwell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wZjdEl9F8
>Nations by Consent | Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/11_1_1_0.pdf
>Natural Order, the State, and the Immigration Problem | Hans-Hermann Hoppe
https://mises.org/system/tdf/16_1_5.pdf?file=1&type=document

Minarchst here

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"i don't like retarded regulations" here

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First edgy propaganda then memes. Im posting everything tonight niBBa.

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State enforced morality is a fucking contradiction. if you believe in this shit you're a fucking moron!

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>muh you cant remove peaceful commies, thats a NAP violation! FASCIST!

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>>135591063
No such thing, FUCK COMMIES.

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Fuck libertine subversives too, basically libertarian proto-communists.

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Totalitarians of any kind, National Socialists, NazBols or StrasserFags can never be considered true “right-wingers”, traditionalist, or promoters of a natural order.

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>>135590249

>>135591230
This guy is an an-cap tho

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Feels good to feel at home.

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>>135591781
Yeah, and so is Jeffery "safe space" Tucker. they're a cancer that has to be removed. The're indistinguishable from leftists.

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>>135591955
Welcome Home

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lel

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>did I tell you about thos non agressive commies? they're real.

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Have you guys seen my website? I'm the mother fucking chairman of the mises institute!

>The Irrepressible Rothbard | RIGHT-WING POPULISM | Murray N. Rothbard
https://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

>>135592225
No such thing as a peaceful commie and no such thing as a good willing socialist.

>>135592053
I feel the kekistani and Swastika should switch places. The National Socialists are far smarter than the kekistani Alt-Light

>>135592752
I definitely would swap the kekistanis out of that place, but I like where the nat-socs are. Some of them are intelligent and some are complete morons.

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>>135592752
I unironically think Gavin McCuck is smarter than the top NatSoc on /pol/. Even if they can't say anything that might be a considered a hate crime in cuckanada.

>>135593031
PLUMBERS? WHAT IS THIS XENOPOHIBA? MY FREEDOM TO AN APARTMENT? GOVERMENT HELP!

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Yall niggas think you're safe and secure with your socialist state built roads, but while you're at work that road is fucking your wife. Feel smart now?

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>>135591781

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>>135593294
>>135593179
great shit, do a H O P P E tho.

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I need a caption, I lost slovakia's mudslime ball memes.

I read 'road to serfdom' and thought I would slide some Karl Marx in before jumping to Friedman... To understand the opposition.

Capital

Now I want to neck myself. :(

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also r8

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If I contribute, would someone answer my questions about libertarianism seriously?

>>135593763
you don't really wanna read marx. even if you're trying to "understand the opposition" you're better off learning about the modern left and you can learn what you need to know from youtube debate and news videos. we're not really up against classical marxists anymore. you're better off reardng leftist strategists if you actually want to oppose them in a real way.

>>135594069
maybe, I'll try not to be a dick.

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>>135593825
That is actually the best, you should have this on the top left of the flag though

>>135593454
Okay, but there already is a lot of great Hoppe aesthetic out there.

>>135594069
also that meme is shit, 'cause you guys don't understand enforcing cultural values without the state.

>>135594229
ehh, I hate that lame symbol.

>>135594185
How can you control inevitable hyperinflation of road fees?
How can this system not turn into a turbomaterialistic, consumerist, degenerate shithole in a decade?

Really makes you think

>>135499141
>>135499141
>>135499141

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>>135594265
I guess you're right. Do one of me instead, heres my selfie. I don't get enough love.

>>135594490
>Inevitable hyperinflation of road fees
What is the free market?
>Using "consumerism" as an argument
"Although questions are welcome, many are repeated often, so it is recommended you research the basics first. Nobody here is obligated to debate with you, so try to avoid using fallacies in your arguments or creating unrealistic scenarios."

If you want a serious debate first you have to declare definitions of the terms you write about.

>>135594069

Weak government is self defeating.
Post modernity will only bring NatSox.

It's only ever been damage control

>>135594706
>Using "consumerism" as an argument
Are you even serious? You are on /pol/. and this is a non-argument to you?
Rope yourself degenerate.
>>135594069
>>135594405
I posted that image because it was entertaining. Not to imply that AnCap/Libfaggotry is a stepping stone before NatSoc.

>>135595005
Define consumerism you maggot or get the fuck out. You are not worthy of any debate of any sort if you rush in here and act like a precious snowflake.

>>135594490
>How can this system not turn into a turbomaterialistic, consumerist, degenerate shithole in a decade?

How is providing everything for your people through welfare and holding their hand through life so they dont evolve, and then having to sterilize all the retards and fags you've created not degenerate?
See this
>>135590781
fucking pleb.

>>135594490
Personally I think over-consumerism is an issue created by large monopolistic corporations with massive advertising budgets and outlets worldwide. In a libertarian social order, you're getting small, local produce most of the time, small business that is.

>>135595005
National Socialism is a fucking laugh. Left wing parasitism parading itself around as "the most right wing ideology"
gass yourself
o wait, you never gassed anyone amiright?

>>135594185

The modern marxist agenda is predictable, yet still gaining. I want to sink my dagger in to the flesh of this unholy beast. I'm salivating for amunition.

>>135595426
I think that consumerism isn't even a degenerate issue, it just gets degenerate because there was already degeneracy in the first place to capitalise on.
Consumerism is stupid, I can agree on that, but inherently degenerate? Buying a new Iphone every year is stupid, yes, but degenerate?

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CRINGE.

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>>135593692
H-Here I go

>>135592053
>slave mindset
>having high IQ
chose one

>>135595606
If you really must, you should probably read leninists and tankies, more practical. labor value theory is total bullshit they can't defend.

>>135595186
My country blocks wiki, so here is what google gives me.
>Consumerism is a social and economic order and ideology that encourages the acquisition of goods and services in ever-increasing amounts.
I still advise you to neck yourself, degenerate.
>>135595283
>people through welfare and holding their hand through life so they dont evolve
>nd then having to sterilize all the retards and fags you've created not degenerate?

Okay fags, I'm literally just asking. Not up to debate, nor do I have any desire to counter your arguments. You lefties get defensive very quickly.
>>135595426
> large monopolistic corporations
But isn't that a byproduct of global economy which means no nation can enforce a closed market of its won? Which always seems like something libertarian, at least to me. Explain please.

>>135594069
nice try subverter, nice try
A libertarian never align with a socialist, you are trying to argue that libertarians are ok with 70~80% income tax e huge bureaucratization of the relation of the means of production

>>135595999
How is buying more things degenerate? You sound like a fucking communist.

>>135596170
Consumerism is consuming for no other purpose than consuming, without carrying about quality or w/e related to the product and in the long run it's bad for society and consequently the market

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>>135596028
>tfw you posted an inflammatory image without meaning to it
This is good, I got multiple laughs out of this mongolian basket.

>>135595999
face it bitch, you do everything exactly as the commies, with the same intent .

Forcing people to go to church at gunpoint does not make them godly or moral. Socialism and statism is the ulltimate degeneracy.

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>>135596319
>being mad at the internet
>being mad
try again

>>135595999
We generally hold that monopolies, an inflation of the size of companies above the optimal size, is a result of market intervention - overregulation and cronyism giving too much power to big buisnesses over the people and smaller, local business. Under a competitive free market economy, monopolies can't develop, as there's no way for big companies to prevent competing companies - they can't simply walk up to their (((cronies))) in government and choke buisnesses they don't like with regulatory capture.

>>135596313
>>Consumerism is a social and economic order and ideology that encourages the acquisition of goods and services in ever-increasing amounts.


>Consumerism is consuming for no other purpose than consuming, without carrying about quality or w/e related to the product and in the long run it's bad for society and consequently the market
So which is it? We need to get one definiton if we want to even start debating this. I know you're 2 different posters but still.

>>135595803

There's no freedom without Law and Order

No freedom without responsibility.

Thoughts?

>>135596574
The first one is just autistic, it makes sense if "ever-increasing amounts" consequently decreases quality, otherwise is pure socialism

>>135596763
>No freedom without responsibility.
absolutely. I would even say freedom, morality and responsibility are the same thing.

>>135596917

Is the 'spirit of the law' a librarian ideal?

Also: how do we spread this message effectively?

>>135595677
nice.

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>>135596380
>>135596170
>hurr you are a commie
I would love to be a heli pilot and give people free rides.
>Forcing people to go to church at gunpoint does not make them godly or moral.
Correct. But we should still gun down the faggots and insulters of other people's faith. Actually, specifically the one that is deeply ingrained to the culture of the nation. Other religious ideas can be criticized by the people that holds their values valiantly. A code of respect ,regarding how to talk about heretical ideas, can indeed be defined, depending on how civilized the people are but that is that.
>>135596524
>overregulation and cronyism
I see, that is a nice aspect.
>If there is no state to support, bigcorps can't maintain their size.
Wait, do you mean small state, or no state at all? Am I overreaching and assuming what you are implying?

>>135596917
So if you don't act moral, you aren't free?

Nonsense. Freedom allows you to act immoral

>>135597364
You misrepresented what I fucking said, I'm not going to reply to you anymore.

>>135589891
Keep up the good work, OP.

>>135597266
I believe so. I also believe if we had a convincing message, it would be the message to erase all the leftist degenerate libertarians and ancaps for good.

Its hard to convince people, it seems mystical or religious to most people I talk to about it. The people who really need to understand it the most have an aversion to anything slightly righteous.

>>135597411
If you don't act moral bad things happen to you. if you binge on drugs and have gay anal sex alot you get sick and die. The only the living remnants are what we cal moral people. Its a naturally eugenic enviorment.

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14888 when?

>>135598077
>If you don't act moral bad things happen to you
I disagree. Acting immoral benefits you, at the expense of the larger community.

Individualized benefits, socialized costs. That's the definition of "immoral".

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>>135598150
I'm ready.

>>135597364
I personally believe their should be a state because of the grand chess board but it should be minimal as it was in the united states from the birth of our union to before the gilded age. I believe that their should be a heavy underpinning of society of Christianity or Hellenic Paganism that enforces social morality through group coercion; however, with that being said I believe that the government should not have the power to work alongside the church in enforcing social morality instead of ethical morality.

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>>135598150
Autumn 2019 in Poland.

BTW we should get a Korwin image like this one or the Ron Paul or Hoppe ones.

>>135597411


"DURR DURR"

*Stfu you degenerate faggot.


""Evolutionary theory is implicit"" ™®©

>>135598261
That sounds all fine in the short run, but a person who steals and murders to get their way puts themself in extremely high risk situations where they will likely get stolen from, kidnapped or killed. these high risk people will often show up, but they will never replace generations as much as the medium to low risk/high success rate lifestyles, the idea is that we eliminate the institutions that garentee saftey for "immoral" generations. ie "the state" and they die out.

the free market WILL punish "degeneracy". quote me nerds.

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can i get a quick rundown on librarianism?

>>135598372
>Small state
Okay, let me entertain the idea.
Taxes, yay or nay?
Military, this is a problem. Small state cannot maintain a numerous and well supplied modern army in my opinion. Then, you will get invaded the fuck out. Which means your property getting plundered, your woman raped, your soil taken away and your rights into the trash where it belongs.
Laws?
I don't know about this one really.
What do you think about these points?

>>135599035
bite me cunt

"Huur the free market will make people MORE equal"
"ANCAP TRAP HAREMS WHEN"
"I just wanna be an ancap so I can do drugs a and be a degenerate"

>de·gen·er·ate
>1. having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline.

>2. an immoral or corrupt person.

>3. decline or deteriorate physically, mentally, or morally.

That is explicitly the fucking definition of the word you retard. we're not neetsoc fags who sperg about this shit and not knowing what we're talking about.

Are there limits to what could legally be considered property? Can human beings be property? Can land? Can a river be property? What about the water in the river? If I own a lake that drains into a river that you own, can I poison my lake? Can I charge you for the water? If you build a hydroelectric dam, can u demand the revenue since it uses water?
Can society place an upper limit on how much can be owned? By natural law, can a man be said to own a piece of land he's never seen, or one that is thousands of miles away? Can a man own a thought? an idea? a species? a family? Can a man own debt? Does a man own himself? Can he sell himself? Can he bet his life? What about bloodsport? Can a man take his own life? Who inherits his debt? Can a village transfer all their debt to a man who then kills himself? Can a man sell the right to his own murder?

>>135599283

Prediction is predicated on the assumption that people are (decent)

Meaningless without catharsis.
Yet; Meaningless without.
You are lost

>>135599723
1. My freedom ends where your begins.
2. I think intelectual property wouldn't exist.
3. To own some abandoned plot of land you'd need to put work into it to make the claim legitimate.
4. Voluntary contracts have to be VOLUNTARY, that means consent from all groups involved.

>>135599420
No property, capital gains, corporation, or personal income taxes at the national level. A low import or export tax would be fine(5-10%) to fund for a border defense system/navy. We shouldn't be the police men of the world.

Law, you have the right to do what you please as long it hurts no one. A societal underpinning of religion is necessary to maintain a kind society, religion and government should not touch.

>>135599382
Violence is bad, stealing is bad.
the free market puts the most productive, honest and responsible people on the top of the hierarchy

"the free market" is when people act without theft, violence or threats, this includes the governing forces,. these acts of violence are what we call "Statism". we do want a sort of "goverment" but through the means we implement its voluntary and not "statism"

"property rights" are important to decide what is and isnt violence or theft.

>>135600257
>No property
What?
You mean property taxes r-right?

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>>135591063
That's where you're wrong kiddo

>>135600135
You misunderstand, I expect indecent people. The indecent people "degenerates" are by definition in a stage of decline, they are the lowest class.

>>135600621
Property tax yes.

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Greastest Ancap fiction writer?

Though you could make an argument for Tolkien being the greatest protoancap fiction writer too but thats a WHOLE other debate.

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>>135594644
This is the best I could manage

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>>135601442
fuggin saved. thanks man!

>>135601084
>Property tax yes.
For a moment, I thought I was replying to a gommie.
Okay, how are you going to enforce law without having the necessary capital to even form a force projecting army? You need to pay for the criminal catching people.
The place of your definition would be a miserable pool of fraud and falsification.
Invader problem still remains, only solution I can see is that every country reduces their military capacity proportionally albeit this is not a realistic event to take place.

>>135601842
I should have made it clearer that this is at a national level. A state or province would be allowed to do what they wished when it came to taxes as long as they retain the constitution.

>>135600186
Where does the limit of who is involved draw from? Does my neighbor have a say in what I build if it affects his view? Does the man down wind of me have a say in me starting a land fill? If I owe a man a million dollars, can I sign a contract with another man that gifts land to my family in exchange for my participation in bloodsport that likely results in my death?

>>135601842
Hey just looking at the time, gotta get up early tomorrow. Peace out man good talk.

>>135602388
By by libbity hoppity

>>135602187
I'm assuming you're either living under a society with some private laws to deal with situations like that already, or you are the private owner of your property and you need to form some sort of long term agreement with your neighbours. To the debt problem, if your debt doesn't limit your freedom ( you could have for instance, risk being a slave for a million dollars ) you can.

I started reading Democracy: The God That Failed recently

>>135602693
How is it?

>>135602654
I'm talking our ideal LibRight society, how do you think these questions should be answered?

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>>135601442
I hope you don't take offense, but I made it bigger and added a chopper

>>135602930
It should be answered by the private property owners. Our "ideal LibRight society" might mean anything from, every house owner is independent now to there is around 10 000 private property owners owning huge chunks of land.
Private law and the NAP solves this stuff. If you cannot come to an understanding with your neighbour you can always go to court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYS9fLucyt8

>>135602788
I've read the introduction and big chunk of the first chapter, but I have high expectations. Hoppe is a great speaker and it seems his books are just as great.

>>135603181
How much power should courts have in situations like this? Is there a set of terms that should be assumed to exist between all property owners? If I have a contract with one neighbor, and another neighbor makes business plans based on the assumption that the contract between the two other neighbors exists, do the two participants in the original contract still have the right to nullify it?
For instance, man1 and man2 own adjacent property. They agree with eachother that they will not build above 2 stories, so as not to interfere with eachothers views. man3 owns land adjacent to both and decides to build condos 5 stories high to capitalize on the unobstructed view over the other two pieces of property. Do man1 and man2 have the right to mutually terminate their contract, even though man3 is arguably involved due to basing his decisions on the pre-existing contract?

>>135603142
I actually like yours better than my own.

>>135604138
>How much power should courts have in situations like this?
As much as the parties involved agreed to.

The NAP is to be respected between all property owners. Your freedom ends where my freedom begins.

>If I have a contract, yada yada...
If he didn't sing anything with you, you didn't participate in his decision so breaking the contract wouldn't violate the NAP, unless some other private law holds you back.

>For instance, man1 and man2 own adjacent property. They agree with eachother that they will not build above 2 stories, so as not to interfere with eachothers views. man3 owns land adjacent to both and decides to build condos 5 stories high to capitalize on the unobstructed view over the other two pieces of property. Do man1 and man2 have the right to mutually terminate their contract, even though man3 is arguably involved due to basing his decisions on the pre-existing contract?

You're making an assumption that these people would be pretty stupid not to take into account all of their neighbours. If negotiation doesn't work, take it to court. If the court rules against you, you can't do nothing. It's his property.

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>>135604245

Working on a Henry Hazlitt one right now.

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>>135605720
Could you do Janusz Korwin Mikke next? Maybe with a crown on his head, adds to his lore. Also our an-caps in Poland have a joke around that he's a jewish cyborg named Ozjasz Goldberg. We have our own 4chan like /lrg/ culture spread around the internet, but Polish.

>>135606504
Alright, I'll start on that next.

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pic related, it's you all and everything you'd "own" in Ancapistan.

>>135607753
Sorry, let me correct that, in MY ancapistan.

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Alright, this'll probably be my last post of the night

>>135601442
>>135593179
Great shit senpai, but Rothbard is the original enemy of the state. Replace "anatomy" with "enemy"

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>>135610007
I love you

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We need more threads like this

I can "identify" with the Alt-Light, but not the Alt-Right

4chan shouldn't be this naive, ignorant and sarcastic

>>135612114
>non-aggression
>physical removal

>>135612539
Despite all of the Pinochet memes, physical removal, as originally described by Hoppe, did not refer to physical violence. Rather, it referred to the fact that individuals who espoused views that were harmful to liberty (communism, for example), would have to be - for lack of a better term - excommunicated from the community they inhabited, for if they were allowed to obtain power in any sort of capacity or indoctrinate others into their ideologies, the libertarian society we inevitably regress into tyranny.

>>135612539
See >>135612906
Physically removing NAP-violators would be permitted in a libertarian society (provided that such an act would fit the transgression)

http://www.strawpoll.me/13582104

>>135595646
well he's not wrong about the US
he is however wrong about Germany, because the "less fortunate fellow citizens" that profit the most from tax paying are non-Germans, mostly Muslims, who hate Germany (even though Germany let them in and pays for them) who are not unfortunate but just not intelligent enough

>>135595646
Absolutely pathetic. Sad!

>>135596028
>national socialism
>70%income tax
please neck yourself faggot nazis werent socialists

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>>135599382
mein neger

>>135619719
Actually most of the profit between 70-90% would go to the workers and the entrepreneur would only keep 10%.This was used to motivate people in the nationalized industry.

>>135589891
imagine having a literally jewish ideology
wait...

>>135590781
yeah, fuck the state for not letting me take advantage of underaged girls!