Electoral College

>>135564936
You can't come up with a coherent reason to get rid of it. Also states should go back to appointing senators.

Go fuck yourself, commie filth.

I don't trust other Americans enough to do a direct popular vote

The system heavily favors "swing votes" because rural votes are often assumed victories. You could win the presidency (even with 100% turn out) with 25-26 or so percent of the vote if you got the right states. That's bull.

The EC was designed for two reasons... to give the "deep state" a way to reject populist candidates (the founders wanted an educated political class to decide) and also to protect the interests of slave states. That way the population of slaves could be counted and used for EC delegate math, but the actual votes of those slaves ignored.

Not a single historic document or account exists which supports the "rural vs urban" argument for the EC... in fact, the creator of the compromise stated he thought that a direct vote was better.

>>135565066
I believe in representation before taxation or otherwise. Seems a good enough reason to ask for direct representation.

And yeah, asking for my vote to count makes me a communist. Representative democracy is the cornerstone of communist utopia unit, da?

Idiot

>>135564936

LA Chicago and NYC have too much crazy liberal groupthink its okay to limit their power.

I'd be fine with abolishing it IF women couldn't vote.

>>135565461
You already get representation for taxation, dipshit. Why don't you go after something useful like ending the income tax, which is not apportioned per the constitution?

>>135565398
Move to somewhere else then. People who hate the fundamental principles of this country should get out.

The problem with the EC is much worse in modern times because of the cap on the number of representatives, so the three free delegates everyone gets matters more.

>>135565583

Also too much vote fraud in certain areas. Cali and Chicago probably had 3 million illegal votes between them alone.

>>135565622
Do I? The British government also already represented the colonists and they sent people to lobby, but the level of representation was unequal.

>>135565583
Even if you add up the entire east coast and cali and had them vote solid dem, it wouldn't be 50% of the population. This is a lame argument anyway, as we live in a country derived from the will of the people.

When people criticize the EC there are two camps.

1. people who hate the idea that faithless electors are even possible

2. people who dislike the allocation of electoral votes

I can see different points of view for the former but the latter has no excuse

>>135565752
>my three gorillion illegal votes

Oy vey

>>135565893
And your solution here is to end the Electoral College? What the fuck is that going to do? The president doesn't assign your taxes in the first place you absolute doddering twat.

Why the fuck are communists always such gigantic morons?

>>135564936
you think they couldn't ask 1000 citiots if they think the electoral college matters and have 80% of them respond" of course not" because they have no idea what it actually does back then?
better off yourself, ASAP

>>135565910
Fuck, switch former and later round

>>135565636
I can't afford to move anywhere else. While I'm stuck here, I'm going to stick to my views.

>>135565910
You are fine with reasoning behind the allocation then? Where one vote can be worth up to 4 times as much as another?

>>135565636
You're the one hating on American fundamental principles shit for brains.

>>135564936
>letting California decide every single one of our elections
Thanks, but no thanks.

>>135565066
Also this. The states have zero representation in the Federation.

>>135565461

The Amerikan union is a compact of individual states not individuals. Fuck off Judio.

File: 1484994235292.jpg (90KB, 957x621px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 957x621px

>>135564936
Elections don't matter you stupid fucking monkey.GET.THIS.THROUGH.YOUR.FUCKING.AIR.HEADED.SKULL.

>>135566241
See this? A fucking messican knows more than this retard. Trade places!

>>135565893

Only a small minority of colonists actually supported armed insurrection against the Crown you useless flabby Jewcunt. Get fucked.

>>135565990
The president is part of the process, that's like saying that a congressman doesn't assign them because he can't pass the whole thing himself.

The president signs the bills. Did you grow up in the former soviet bloc? Your go too frame of mind is communism and you have no grasp on the subtleties of American government, so it fits.

>>135566007
That wasn't the wording. They were asked if they would support an amendment to eliminate it.

>>135566241
>When a Mexican knows more about America than OP

>>135564936
Only (((liberals))) hate the electoral college
Because it means (((they))) cant spam illegals votes

>>135566419
You still can't form a coherent argument. Are you one of those reddit people? Do you typically debate your talmudvision or perhaps the wallpaper?

>>135566177
No, I'm hating on an American law that goes contrary to the fundamental principle.

If the government passed an amendment that required us all to turn in our guns and chop off our willies, it'd be a fundamental law in our republic because it'd be part of the constitution... but it'd be contrary to our fundamental principles.

>>135566394
>>135566241
>We the people

The states derive power from their people. No state has the ability to nullify the federal government. All states gave up supremacy with that compact.

>>135565990

The cities will endeavour to become de facto super-states until a stochastic social collapse or a rebellion from the arable portions of the land which would be much preferred personally so I can watch them in the live wither and die within 30 nightmare filled days.

File: 7687687.png (10KB, 208x243px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 208x243px

>>135566419
THIS IS WHO YOU ARE FUCKING VOTING FOR EVERYTIME, AND YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM RICHER AND LET THEM BOMB THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING WHILE ALSO REDUCING THE IQ OF EVERY MOTHER FUCKER IN AMERICA SO THEY CAN MAKE THE PUBLIC THEIR BITCH AND OWN EVERYTHING!AND YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT FUCKING VOTES!?AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>135564936

The US has never been a democracy and never will be.

>>135566517
>hurrr voter fraud is prevented by the EC because it means that you can win the presidency with fewer votes in strategic places

Honestly, voter fraud would be helped by the EC

>>135566601
Madison himself stated the superiority of the direct vote. Not my fault you've never read the federalist papers or the transcripts of the convention.

>>135567069
Well, yeah... you come up with that one yourself there genius?

Electing a president automatically means you are a representative government, because you vote him in to represent you. A representative democracy has been the model of the US (and a republic given our state-federal set up) for our entire history.

No one is claiming we are a democracy. Just that our representatives should be chosen democratically.

>>135567104
Ah, well you've done a fine job summarizing Madison's position so far, haven't you? Why did it take you this long to even mention it?

And it's true that while I did get a copy of the federalist papers last Christmas I haven't read through it yet. But that doesn't really present an argument that has anything to do with anything. Are you perpetually drunk?

>>135566851

All states have the ability to nullify the Federal government. The states are given power by the people who have chosen to specifically live within its borders not to be ruled by some socially disconnected coastal kike infested megalopolises whose self-serving druthers are irrelevant anywhere but there. Die Jew die. Sooner the better and the more painfully the best.

>>135567104
Madison was a cunt
So are you
You jews really like trying to take away peoples rights and opinions, but you havent convinced anyone here to give up theirs

>>135567488

Worry not they've overplayed their hand and will all leave your country or wind chime.

>>135564936
Fuck you subverting shill. Claims the Deep State supports the EC system somewhere among his posts. The lamest attempt at share blue trickery I've seen in a day or two. If all you fags fall for one iota of what this charlatan writes, we're done as a race, culture and civilization. Bernie bro at best, Sorosbot at worst. GTFO.
SAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>135567323
>Not a single historic document or account exists which supports the "rural vs urban" argument for the EC... in fact, the creator of the compromise stated he thought that a direct vote was better.

I already mentioned Madison, he created the compromise.>>135565461
Not my fault you didn't know that. If I had said the first president agreed with me initially and then later stated that Washington did, would you have been angry about that too?

The federalist papers outline the stated purpose of the EC, so they have a lot to do with the "anything" we are talking about. The underlying reasoning (more truthful than the stated, given how Madison felt when putting pen to paper) are found in the transcripts of the convention itself.

If I was perpetually drunk, I'd still vomit up better argument than you.

>>135567703

Tell us about Untermensch again.

>>135567733
So what's the argument? That I'm vomit? Fine, I submit! We must do away with the EC!

>>135567733

were

File: voterFraud.jpg (383KB, 1003x600px) Image search: [Google]

383KB, 1003x600px

>>135564936
It is not called the United States of California/Texas/new York. Why should they dictate for the entire country because they have messed up immigration and bus around illegals to vote without voter ID laws.

>>135567867

It's scattershot Jewing everywhere looking for something to stick.

File: 2016Election.jpg (758KB, 2000x761px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 2000x761px

>>135564936

You basically you're saying "fuck you, hicks" to all the Americans living outside of LA, Chicago, and NewYork?

>>135567455
We had a war already to prove they couldn't, and Jackson had his own crisis to prove that as well. State nullification is a myth used by Americans (and Mexicans too I guess?) who don't know their history.

>>135567703
Of course the EC is supported by the Deep state, it lets insider politicians stop any president from being elected if they truly don't want them there.

Did you really think they'd stay in power long if it was so easy for you to peel back the curtain?

>>135568122
So Madison argued that deep state needs eternal rule, and the key to it was that the EC would stop all the plebs from being able to pull back the curtain?

How do I subscribe to your newsletter?

>>135564936
>wonders how many polled in 1968 were on Quaaludes, lsd, and/or angel dust
>>135565636
Actually, YOU need to move somewhere else. It is well documented that the founding fathers created this voting system to be like no other...YOU MOVE

>>135568122
RIght, so why are you fighting for them if you don't want their will carried out? We all know what will happen if EC is abolished. Bye bye America. I appreciate the measured response but get bent.

>>135568049
No, that's the point of the Senate. The senate was specifically designed to give rural states more power.

>>135568015
>Presenting arguments rooted in the federalist papers and transcripts
>not a single argument against me that has anything to do with the constitution, or any backing with the writings of the founders
>LOL JEWS RIGHT?

Wew

>>135564936
>this used to not be a dem vs republican issue.

But now it is. If you think the rest of us are just going to hand everything over to New York and California without a fight, you've got another thing coming.

>>135568122

Stop contriving fact with outcomes of fortune you miserable rat faced kike. Every state disavows the Federal government and there is no legal Federal government.

>>135568466
>The senate was specifically designed to give rural states more power.
They were all rural at the time, butt plunger. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>135568285

babypenisesaredelish.com

>>135565066
>>135566195
>>135565461
You guys realize it doesn't make a difference right? If a senator could win election via popular vote in their state, and they had to be appointed by the state legislature from now on, it wouldn't make a difference cause state legislators are elected by popular vote. And if a senator attarcks enough votes to win the popular vote, then those same voters more than likely vote for state legislators like the senator who will continue to appoint them and those like them anyway. The 17th amendment only came about as an illusion of democracy. The United States of America is by its own definition a republic, not a direct democracy. And states can't not have a republican form of government because it's actually required as per Article 4 of the Constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_1:_Republican_government

File: us}nap1.jpg (51KB, 600x362px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x362px

>>135564936
>Americans traditionally hated the electoral college
>1968
Immigrants hate it because they dont understand the concept of America

>>135564936
You can change it.
All you have to do is convince the red states to become irrelevant.
Good luck with that.

It was designed to protect against the tyranny of the majority.The system is WAI.

>>135568285
No, he argued that he preferred the direct vote, but he brokered a compromise (3/5ths and the EC) to keep the slave states at the table.

Then in the federalist papers it was outlined that the EC was also a check against populist candidates.

The blog I run can be found here.
>https://www.congress.gov/resources/display/content/The+Federalist+Papers

>>135568442
The deep state wants the EC though. It's a literal body of governmental insiders who can say "fuck you" to the entire American people.

It's literally in their job description as a member of the electoral college.

>>135568466

...by your transparently evasive whingeing kike peculiarist when it suits you standards only whites should be new citizens of Amerika. You are not white so get out of there Chaim.

>>135565066
>You can't come up with a coherent reason to get rid of it. Also states should go back to appointing senators.
I would go even farther and eliminate the house

>>135568882

Who are you an aide/gopher to/for faggot?

>>135568577
And if every person living in a state disavows the state government then there is no legal federal government. And if every human magically turns into a frog, mankind no longer exists.

Magical theoreticals are great and all, but outcomes matter. Nullification is not a right or mechanism in our current system.

>>135568882
So now we're on to slave states? This is getting good. Why didn't Lincoln just abolish the EC when he was launching the civil war to free the slaves?

>>135568804
No it wasn't, that was the Senate.

I'd have a hard time convincing them, if the actual EC is this misunderstood (given by the high level thought going on in this thread)

>>135564936
America is a federal nation, a more proportional system would lead to tyranny by majority, ignoring the less populated states

>>135568882
Either lying or ill-informed that the deep state wants the EC. the deep state works happily for the globalist agenda, and a globalist and political prostitute like Hillary Clinton was a very loud voice against the EC

>>135567299
>no one is claiming

>muh popular vote

>>135569220
That's not the point of the senate you retard. Holy hell.

>>135564936
Mental Masturbaton Not Changing. You need 2/3 of Congress and 2/3 of the states to vote vote a change. The rest of the country is not going to cede all power to NY and Cali

>>135569118

You've just elastically counter-signaled yourself. You read like some Great Books Programme golem. Leo Strauss was a faggot but pales next to your insipid gibbering.

>>135565461
>I watched CPG Grey's video so fuck your republic
The Electoral College locks out the Left. That's what matters.

>>135569300
I know....and the dumbdick is trying to now claim he knows the job description of the deep state, wew! Lefty nutcases make things up as they go along.

>>135569138
I literally outlined it in my second post. It's not something we just hopped onto.

1) Lincoln can't unilaterally pass an amendment
2) The EC became much more of a problem in the 1900s after the number of people in the house was capped. Representation was more equal prior. (so it wasn't a problem)
3) Slavery was supported in the compromise with the 3/5ths provision, and the EC. One was eliminated and the other one (which wasn't explicitly racist) was not touched

>>135564936
>implying democracy is any good to start with
you dumb mongrelized merry tard

>>135569253

Now..now...this faggot would want forced busing in rural areas where children would spend 14 hours a day between busing and school to experience cultural enrichment...they can sleep later.

>>135564936
>the political system has been politicized !!!!!
you lost me

>>135569469
Lincoln raped the Constitution to force through 3 amendments. He could have easily done it to remove the EC too if he wanted to.

>>135569469
Wait wait wait. You're not even going to refute my obvious bait about Lincoln launching the civil war to free the slaves?

Oh my lord.

Did Lincoln unilaterally pass an amendment to start the war and free the slaves?

>>135568882
So you believe the deep state wanted Trump rather than Hillary? Everybodies actions over the past 7 months would indicate otherwise would you say?

>>135569469
>the 3/5ths provision, and the EC. One was eliminated and the other one (which wasn't explicitly racist) was not touched

Magical theoreticals are great and all, but outcomes matter.

>>135569700

He's twisting his nipples and giggling like a girl reading this....it makes his Rebbe happy in the lap.

>>135569300
Actually it is. The electoral college is the give weight to less populated states in presidential elections instead of letting states like California and New York decide all the time.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/04/24/rightwing-supreme-court-wrong-original-intent-constitution-was-progressive
Liberal presentation style but it's historically accurate.

>>135569878

https://archive.is/86KYa

>>135569300
What is the point of the Senate then boy?

The reason we have a Senate (as part of our bicameral legislature) is due to an argument the framers had. Some wanted representation entirely based on population. They got the House created in this compromise.

Others wanted the States to have representation regardless of how rural or small they were, to represent their sovereign status. They got the Senate in this compromise.

>>135569447
Oh sure, the deep state totally would love to get rid of unaccountable power to chose who is President. I'm making unreasonable guesses here. Nutcase that I am.

>>135569878
You understand that the senate and the EC are two different things, don't you? And that California didn't exist when the constitution was being designed?

>>135569469
>Representation was more equal prior. (so it wasn't a problem)
not really because the senate has grown at an even smaller rate
The house has more of an influence on the EC now than it did when the country was founded

>>135569635
Lincoln fought for the Union, he was willing to let slavery exist if need be.

The confederate states fought for the preservation of slavery.

I didn't have time to respond to everything stupid you said, so I just let it slide to keep the focus on the EC. My mistake.

>>135568984
The House is supposed to represent the people, the Senate is supposed to represent the states.

>>135569969

>to chose who is President

A or B some choice. Fuck off.

>>135570031
The Senate is part of how we calculate votes in the EC

>>135569253
The problem is delegates and the fact you don't actually vote for candidates people vote on your behalf, like yeah here our MPs do the same for our laws but your electors make it too complex. The separation of the legislature (congress) and the executive (presidency) leads to deadlock, i.e why Obama couldn't control guns and why trump can't get through congress on healthcare
>>135569584
Wtf are you on about, I'm not saying I agree with American system but it has its good points and bad points, just pointing em out señor

>>135570136
The house was to give more representation to large states
This kills federalism

>>135570134
>>135570180
No no no. Apparently now we're discussing the senate and slavery, and that's why we need to get rid of the EC.

This thread is magic. I would like to invite all of you to the next constitutional convention.

>>135569627
The problems with the EC were less apparent then, and Lincoln only presided over the passage of one (the 13th). He was kinda dead when the others (reconstruction amendments) got rolling.

>>135570211
>leads to deadlock
good
> Obama couldn't control guns
SHALL
>why trump can't get through congress on healthcare
That is because there are too many leftists in the senate

>>135570134

Your mistake is a congenital curse derived from a generously shmutsi whore mother and a zero discipline premature ejaculating shpilke'd father. It transcends your physical boundaries.

>>135570031
Yes, I was pointing out the difference as you said the point of the Senate was not due to tyranny of the majority while arguing with someone about the EC.
>>135570180
Each state has as many electors as it has members in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives combined population.

>>135569969
well atleast we agree on something...and how exactly is the EC an "unaccountable power" when it is a process? how are the individual states not accountable?

Presidential Candidates would ignore about 30 of the states and those states would be forgotten if you removed the electoral college.

Democrats would love making it just based off shear numbers. The left ideology is a disease that spreads and created a welfare state which prohibits people from breaking out of the poverty line and the school systems fail making people mindless ants.

If it was up to people like hillary clinton. the vote wouldn't even matter and it would be based off a system where the elites choose the leader.

Lefties are fucking filthy. They are either corrupt and very smart or fucking retarded/oblivious.

>>135570367
>next constitutional convention.

Held in West Jerusalem....no Amerikans needed to attend.

File: 4058325082.jpg (41KB, 387x544px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 387x544px

Look at all these demotist weenies arguing about which slight variation of democracy is better.

Monarchists laugh in your face. Peasants will never be able to reproduce the great empires of Europe.

>>135570454
>Each state has as many electors as it has members in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives combined population.
exactly
So if we shrunk the house down to 50 members each state would be represented equally

>>135570543
I was thinking it should be in Greater Israel, and then we can rename the US to Greatest Israel.

>>135564936
it works as intended. the founding fathers were really fucking smart and left tons of backups to combat rabid liberalism

File: Standt.jpg (35KB, 375x268px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 375x268px

>>135570573
Well we never would have had this problem if the King didn't try and take our guns

>>135570441
Trump can't get it through congress and the GOP can't because once you give something you can't take it away bc it won't be popular, moderate republicans who have slight majorities in congress can't afford being accountable for all the poor republican voters they represent that would lose healthcare as a result of repealing obamacare.
Lose job with looming elections in 2018 < vote for healthcare to go

>>135564936
I like the electoral college because I dont want a bunch of commies in California to decide how everyone else lives.

File: primary_1_8_2864.png (91KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 320x320px

ill just assume you haven't read ANY of the Federalist Papers, fuck off shill.

>>135570684
>it works as intended.
We are still in a pretty shitty situation now so I wouldn't go that far

>>135564936
Why don't you explain why it does not protect rural votes? Without it Cali/NY essentially decide the election. And with Cali basically turning illegals into citizens, that is not going to fly.

KYS.

>>135569700
Why would the deep state use their magical super weapon when they believed Trump to be an idiot who they could control?

They just use leaks and yellow tape to keep Trump busy. Nothing has passed, and the executive orders that he's put out can be undone in seconds. When you play poker, you don't call out you have a good hand when you want the other players to keep at the table. And you certainly don't reveal you've stacked the deck.

>>135570367
I brought up the Senate, slavery, and EC in the first handful of posts. They inform each other (EC is calculated with Senate, EC was put through with 3/5ths)

File: 2520358230.png (92KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 800x600px

>>135570749

It's cute that you think that's the real reason the founders went to war.

>>135570434
>were less apparent then,

Hyman Hindsight: the amazing time travelling community college historian!

>>135570786
There is no way republicans would lose Arizona and Alaska because some welfare niggers stop getting free shit

>>135570864
>I brought up the Senate, slavery, and EC in the first handful of posts. They inform each other (EC is calculated with Senate, EC was put through with 3/5ths
OK, now your argument is cogent and coherent.

>>135570573

How is Ohio or Crapifornia this summer?

>>135570872
That is kind of what started it

>>135565461
Again we have a federal republic you dolt, not a democracy.

>>135564936
>Nobody who defends it can come up with any coherent justification of it supported by the framers.
literal fucking bullshit.

the framers intended that there be no such thing as mob rule where the rights of a minority get trampled by the vote of a majority. the idea was a balance to let everyone have a voice in the nation. so populous "progressive" states cant force leftist horseshit on americans in logical, rural states

this was a valid concern even at the time the constitution was created, since certain colonies were larger than others and the united states of america would really be the united states of new york if popular vote was all that was required for presidential elections

>>135570134
Why was the civil war already going on for years before he freed the slaves?

>>135570500
The states are not actually legally able to stop a voter from casting a vote contrary to the State's will. Any elector can be faithless, and legally they can do it. Most state laws trying to prevent it would likely be found unconstitutional.

With that in mind... go look at who the electoral college members are. They aren't average joes. They are all political insiders in some way.

File: 523525239.png (709KB, 700x1088px) Image search: [Google]

709KB, 700x1088px

>>135570994

Yes we all took 5th grade American History once

>>135564936
There are literally only 2 groups of people who don't want the EC.

1.) People who knew nothing about the American electoral process until they heard the CNN special about how Putin built a time machine to go back to the birth of the nation and have the EC instituted so DROOLMPFT would win the 2016 election and secure the forbidden scoops needed to resurrect Hitler.

2.) Leftists who are assblasted because it was her turn.

Please burgers for the love of God don't let the commies get rid of the EC, it's easily one of the best aspects of the American electoral system. Here in leaf land we use the first past the post system and as a result the east decides all the elections and we can now blow dogs for the glory of the weedman

>>135570994

It was the banning of native scrips of exchange.

>>135565461
oh honey, no. its cute you tried. please nobody take this retard seriously

>>135570507
Most states are forgotten WITH the EC. The only ones Presidents visit (after they win their primaries) are the swing states.

You just like the idea of a tyranny of the minority.

>>135564936
IS the country called the United States of America or just America ?

I think it's a shame how Dems have given up on rural voters (whites) and the GOP has given up on cities (everyone else.)

>>135571161
Hot damn. Why can't everybody posting with a US flag be as educated as Paco over here?

>>135566851
That's not how amending the Constitution works you retard.

>>135571220

Just like a Jew to blame a woman. Shame! Shame on you! Bad Jew!

>>135571081
>>135571161
The War started and Lexington and Concord when they tried to seize our guns
This is a fact

>>135570297
No it wasn't. It was set up to be the direct voice of the people.

>>135571220
The rust belt states that went for Trump were part of the so called blue wall, they weren't expected to be swing states. It's why he won.

File: 5302850283.jpg (57KB, 521x277px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 521x277px

Does it bother you demotist weenies that not a single major thinker had anything positive to say about democracy? Even your precious founding fathers, who were ultra Liberals for their time, spat in the face of democracy.

>>135571420
That was more like the flashpoint. That's kind of like saying we had WWI because some dipshit shot a guy in the Balkans.

>Get rid of EC
>Urban domination of senate and presidential politics as the rural communities with differing interests pushed into the ground turn into a cucked socialist nanny state in ten seconds flat ala Britain due to cucks voting for their own pay outs.

No.

Here's some shit that's horrible about the Electoral College that none of you are addressing. Its biggest effect is on voter participation rates. The United States lags far behind most developed countries in percentage of eligible adults that vote. Only about 55% of our eligible voters participate, compared to 65% in the UK, 68% in Germany, or even 78% in Australia. That is ridiculous when you consider we are supposed to be the country that pioneered this whole democracy thing.

The Electoral College setup directly causes a lower participation. In the lead up to an election, unless you are in a volatile swing state, you know with reasonable certainty which way your state will vote. 37 of 50 states have gone the same way in every presidential election since 2000. Voting in places like California is more of a symbolic gesture than anything since the state is going Democrat, and so anybody who is not idealistic/smart enough to know their vote is irrelevant does not see the value in participating. Why are we driving those kind of people away?

Contrary to popular belief, politicians don't actually give a fuck about more people coming out to vote. This is because having a lower amount of participants makes for an easier electorate to manipulate. People caring less means politicians must take more provocative/extreme positions to draw voters to turnout. This means that the voters with more radical ideas are the ones actually selecting our government. If our turnout was more like 75% then politicians would have to take more moderate positions to appeal to a broader coalition of people. Instead they just need to fire up radicals and so we end up being governed by extremists.

The Electoral College is just a scheme to bamboozle you fucks into thinking its ok that we are so polarized and partisan. Debate this shit

>>135564936
I'm fine with abolishing the EC if we kick out non-whites or otherwise stop them from voting and also prevent people on welfare or working in government jobs from voting

>>135571000
A federal republic refers only to the make up of the government, not to how the representatives are chosen.

We are a (ideally) a representative democracy with a federal government that exists as a republic. People use any of those words freely because it's a mouthful, and usually we don't have to worry about pedantic idiots like you.

>>135571012
>"Look ma! I posted the debate that led to the creation of the bicameral legislature again"

Nice try, go read the federalist papers again

>>135571573
Yeah I always hear people all like
>well I was going to vote
>but I don't even know what the EC is or how it works
>so fuck it I'm staying home

>>135570864
>nothing passed
>thinks EOs can be undone in seconds, even though Trump is POTUS for 3.5yrs

You're dumber than I thought.

Saged.

>>135565461
It's not bull anything you retard. This is the united STATES. Do you know what a state is? It's like the EU. You wouldn't hold a vote there and have Germany/France/UK vote a different way than everyone else and garner 51% of the votes and think that's bs that those three countries by themselves didn't win and get to dictate terms for the rest of the union. You'd recognize that all the other states have vastly different sensibilities and cultures. It's exactly the same case here. The US is not a nation it's a collection of semi autonomous states. Why can't you people get that through your heads? The big blue states have almost none of the same values as the rest of the US. Pretty much all they share in common is language and restaurant chains.

>>135571043
Because as I stated, his goal wasn't to free the slaves, it was to preserve the union.

The South fought to preserve slavery. Lincoln disliked slavery, but his primary goal was to preserve the Union.

File: 1501300175664.png (14KB, 611x403px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 611x403px

>>135571296
I think its a shame that taxpayers have to pay for it all

>>135571739
As soon as someone else in in power, it takes seconds. Trump did it to Obama, next president can do it to Trump.

And yeah, he's signed soooo many pieces of legislation that matter.

>>135566032
You can make some extra money freelancing instead of wasting time on 4chan.

>>135571750
The states gave up authority to the Federal government, so yes, we are one nation.

That's like saying companies don't exist because they are made up of people who have individual wills.

>>135571598

>look ma i have no reading comprehension im a sub 25yo millennial!

>>135570940
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40485357
Trump even said there were 3 Republican rebels 3 days ago and subsequently hasn't been able to
www.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890820505330212864

>>135571759
>preserve the union.

...with the muzzle of a gun. Lincoln didn't dislike slavery in Delaware or in the high echelon command structure of his army.

>>135572041

entrusted. Fuck off.

>>135572041
Companies exist by government charter. That's quite entirely different from states forming the federal government.

How does somebody learn to be a stupid as you are?

>>135571573
The EC isn't what's stopping so many people from voting. The EC came about after the first few Presidential elections cause of how retarded the original system was, hence the 12th amendment. It had no impact on voter turnout. Voter turnout has been declining in recent decades due to other factors such as people working more and more hours. Working on elections days or being too tired after work to go vote when the polls are open. Historically most people didn't work nearly as much as they do today.

>>135572229

Years of mindless bestial rape at both ends.

>>135572096
... do you think that anything in your post counters mine? He was willing to let slavery exist in order to preserve the Union.

And he was willing to use force to preserve it as well.

>>135572051
Excellent counter, really got my noggin noodlin.

I swear, reading the federalist papers should be mandatory in school.

>>135571662
Yeah it's a dual problem - not only does it create unnecessary complications for people who do not understand, it also creates pointlessness for those who do understand enough to know their states' direction is inevitable. Its fucking over both smart and dumb people. Makes no sense.

>>135570940
I'm trying to cite which senators rebelled on the healthcare bill but I don't think I can find a link bc the US isn't that transparent? Unless you can provide me with which senators rebelled to prove that some are conscious of looming elections

>>135572055
>bbc human interest piece
>>135571573
>Its biggest effect is on voter participation rates.
1. How is this a bad thing?
2. There are plenty of other elections these retards can vote in

>>135564936
>Bitching about EC because the strategy of zerging America with leftist shitskins wouldn't work
Get fucked. If you don't like that, maybe the 2A can take care...
>of you.

>>135572229
Oh WOW! I gave a comparison and you jumped on the dissimilar parts that had nothing to do with the point I was making. Excellent counter.

Because somehow I forgot that companies aren't countries, and you just demolished my point.

Next time I say something as a comparison I'll make sure to have them line up exactly. Like if I call you a stupid idiot who is as stupid as an idiot. Makes language really flexible.

>>135564936
>Then Trump won, and almost overnight the polls fell, and are now right around 50%. Sometimes below.
Strange. I thought trump lost the popular vote...

>>135564936
If you want to see why the electoral college is necessary just look at Mexico. Mexico bases elections on the popular vote. The biggest population zone are Mexico City and a few tourist regions. Its no coincidence that Mexico City and those few tourist regions are the only ones that are well maintained. The rest of the country is absolute shit because their votes dont matter, thus keeping them happy isn't important.

>>135572343

My posts are sanely judicious...yours are just mindless Talmudic circles of evasive locution. Who has the missing dollar? The customer or the waiter? How fat are you?

>>135572648

>a stupid idiot who is as stupid as an idiot.

Your milieu in a compact nut shell.

>>135572380
But that's as intended. I think perhaps you are mistaking the president of the federal government for some sort of dictator. You might be better off considering that the federal government is asserting way more power than intended, and that it's kind of just a nice little check and balance that states let individuals inform their choice of a president in various fashions.

>>135571750
>>135572229
>>135572209
But they're right. What you guys are referring to is called the compact theory, and it's been long rejected. Under the Articles of Confederation, compact theory would have been correct, but sine the US Constitution superseded "to form a more perfect union", the states are in a perpetual union and cannot leave without consent of the rest of the states or a successful overthrow of the federal government. When unconstitutional laws are passed it was recommended by James Madison in the Report of 1800 (clarifying the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions) the methods states can use to fight the feds legally. It does not include secession. The Supreme Court case Texas vs. White affirmed all of this after the civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_1800#Argument

>>135565066
Actually there are a lot of good reasons to get rid of it, it skews the votes in deep red/blue states and encourages political minorities to not bother voting. It's also clearly a biased system if it only ever helps the right. If you think it works when the winner of the ec vote has 70+ more votes and wins when the opponent has over 2 million more votes, that kind of displacement ratio is fucked. A much better system would be to ban the ec and replace the popular vote with a ranked choice voting system.

>>135572718

Mexico's government is a creation of (((Amerika))) to stifle the profoundly pro-Reich sympathies of the common people.

File: 1479524777033.jpg (66KB, 535x600px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 535x600px

>>135564936
The reason I support the EC is due to the fact that if we didn't have such a system in place three states (California, Texas, and New York, respectively) would have a dominate control on election outcomes due to the fact of the dense population that each three of those states have if we went on a pure popular vote; along with that it doesn't take into account corruption in place (I.E. illegal voting, voter manipulation, etc).

While you are correct and I don't have a justification that is/could have been supported by the framers, I think that my reasoning alone is good enough justification in itself.

>>135572965
While I agree that the entire federal government has taken more power over time, it's also true that every government on the planet has.

The rise of industry kinda made it necessary, otherwise industry takes over the government entirely. There are scores of countries that were overthrown because international corporations didn't like their business practices.

It's hard to get that particular genie back in the bottle, so it's probably better to start thinking about what to do now that it is out.

>>135572235
I disagree with your assessment. First, if the effects were more because lifestyle/working hours, then other developed countries should have seen a similar decline to our level of participation. Yet they have not.

Second, the major historical drops in our participation came after extending suffrage to non-white men, and suffrage for women. By expanding the pool of eligible voters, it makes sense that each individual saw less of a purpose in their one vote.

Also, you must consider that we had far less states for most of our history and that the lack of information made a states' direction less apparent to the average voter. This explains why the EC used to see higher participation. But now it does not. It is simply an outdated system.

>>135573085
>It's also clearly a biased system if it only ever helps the right.
Ah. So you're a brainwashed communist.

You see, the system is meant to provide equal opportunity, not enforce equal outcome. Once you undo your brainwashing, you will understand why you come off as an enormous idiot for trying to argue that the system should be changed because your guys don't win enough.

>>135573077

I have all the ugly IRL details of the lead (((anonymous))) who commands the content & editing (((brigades))) of Jewipedia. The worm is turning and it has a machine gun. More perfect does not equal perfect. Your face = my ass*GFY^2.

>>135573244
So majority rule is overrated?

The problems you are worried about are countered by design in the constitution. The Senate and the Courts are there to check domination by the majority.

I agree that these people should be protected, but at a point it becomes unequal empowerment. The true solution is to limit the power of the Presidency. As he represents the entire country he should be elected by the entire country in a fair, equal manner... but the power to govern should not rest so strongly in his hands.

>>135573636
>So majority rule is overrated?
So do you still beat your wife?

The electoral college must stand. I will not suffer the tyranny of the cities.

>>135573077
>The Supreme Court
The Supreme Court doesnt give a shit about the constitution
If the States never actually left the Union the Civil War and Reconstruction were both extremely unconstitutional

>>135573741

>So do you still beat your imaginary waifu wife?

>>135572459
BBC shits all over your incredibly bias media, sure it has its bad points (with a slight liberal bias/Jimmy Saville n all the rest) but the BBC as an institution and what it did in the war is far better than anything your country has media-wise you couldn't even host the World Cup because there were too few adverts. BBC is one of most widely recognised media sourcesif not the most, look at the World Service for example and how long it's been about. One of the few remaining things that Britiain is still good at and one of the many reasons why we are still a cultural superpower.

>>135573636
>in a fair,
Why is it unfair?

>>135572965
I do not mistake the president for a dictator. I think your line of thinking actually agrees more with abolishing the electoral college for a popular vote. As you say, the president should not be all-powerful, and states still possess significant power to resist the federal government and have a level of autonomy. The check on the president's power should come from those rights of states. Allowing certain states outsize power to select the president is not actually a check on the president's power, the president elected will still be just as powerful, he will simply be a worse representation of the entire nation.

>>135573437
I didn't say anything about equal outcome, I'm talking about increasing the amount of people who vote and broadening the american political spectrum.

File: riot1.jpg (57KB, 640x601px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 640x601px

>>135573977
> One of the few remaining things that Britiain is still good at
Opinion disregarded

>>135573741
Gave it up for Lent.

>>135573800
So rather, they must submit to the tyranny of the rural areas.

You seem to have a problem with government in general.

>>135573855
The Supreme Court DEFINES the Constitution. The Court could legally redefine all of our laws and statues tomorrow if they wanted to, and it would be perfectly legal until they were impeached (not on legal grounds, impeachment is a political process).

All of government is a mental construct though, and it works because we expect it to work... so the Supreme Court would be hesitant to run wild like that.

>>135573375
Actually, Americans work way more than those of other developed countries.
>Second, the major historical drops in our participation came after extending suffrage to non-white men, and suffrage for women. By expanding the pool of eligible voters, it makes sense that each individual saw less of a purpose in their one vote.
That's false and proven by history. During Reconstruction blacks could vote in the South, and plenty did vote, enough that niggers could hold office. Whites were still voting plenty even during the years former Confederate soldiers were disenfranchised so not every Southern lawmaker would be a nigger. And when women were given the right to vote, it didn't impact male voting. It's why even after 1920 it was with only rare exceptions women would be congressmen. Nowadays we have cucks voting for women which is why there's more of them now. Men still typically work more than women.
>Also, you must consider that we had far less states for most of our history and that the lack of information made a states' direction less apparent to the average voter. This explains why the EC used to see higher participation. But now it does not. It is simply an outdated system.
What? For the entire history of the country there were newspapers, magazines, pamphlets, etc. constantly discussing politics. And I'm sure people learned about the EC in school. The Southern states historically had some of the highest voter turnout rates of eligible voters (even with Jim Crow) even though they weren't each hugely significant in the EC, but the common Southern voting patterns made them a solid bloc.

>>135573977

Ha hah hahahahaha! Every time your leadership farts it must first squeak past a Jew's wrist to hit atmosphere. Fuck off wall-eyed pommie.

>>135574023
My vote counts for a different amount than your vote (probably unless we both live in the same state).

Violates the "one person one vote" principle. It's the equivalent of (in a direct system) one person being allowed to cast multiple ballots while another person is barred from doing so.

>>135574274
>The Supreme Court DEFINES the Constitution.
No they claim to
Their opinions only have as much legitimacy as somebody willing to enforce them

goyim is?

>>135574555
Which is why I added that second part about the government being a construct. Obviously, most human interactions only have weight because we think they do.

Like money.

>>135564936
The EC has become important because it's the only thing that allows a diversity of voters to have a say rather than sheer population.

There will ALWAYS be less farmers than city workers, shouldn't they have a say?

>>135574490
>My vote counts for a different amount than your vote (probably unless we both live in the same state).
If we live in different states we are voting for different electors
A fairer system would be each state got equal votes

>>135574653
Well they can't even define it without changing their minds later
They are a joke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions

>>135574249
That is London or Birmingham, you forget the North and the rest of the country is vastly different
>>135574403
Wall-eyed pommie? Have you seen your own flag? You've not even existed more than 200 years mate, you have no culture or history of your own other than selling your land to America and being riddled with crime/poverty. Don't come for my nationality when yours is made up

>>135573855
Ummm..no, secession was not a right of the states and the Confederacy attacked first. And Reconstruction is a different matter, I agree it was unconstitutional, but not secession from the union.

>>135574727
No, because then if I live in a populous state, my vote would be a tiny fraction of say, Wyomings.

Why should a mostly worthless (no offense Wyoming, but lets be honest) square get such a big say?

>>135574403
I've gotta give this guy credit. Despite posting more than anyone in here (even OP)... he still hasn't said much.

Way to play into the Jewish conspiracy to make anyone who criticizes Jews look unhinged.

>>135574863
I mean, the Supreme Court changes people from time to time, it's not like one immortal dude who "changes his mind"

>>135574555

I've been around two of them whike they were drunk and a generous smattering of other lauded "legendary" Amerikan politicians wasted when they would party in an area we kept a beach compound. Only one of them was a non-degenerate decent person and the media got right behind his primary opponent who became your POTUS. They are all needy sociopaths of one form or another which is why they are in it for life. Medicine cabinets like candy shoppes.

>>135574997

I'm rich as fuck faggot and always feeling cavalier. I'm not Mexican just in Mexico but even the grimiest pobrecito here knows it's the fucking Jews.

>>135575015
> but not secession from the union.
I never said it was illegal
I said if you believe it was and they were states denying them republican governments was unconstitutional
If they are foreign countries you can do whatever you want
>>135574997
>That is London or Birmingham, you forget the North and the rest of the country is vastly different
Your entire country is shit nigel
>>135575027
>Why should a mostly worthless (no offense Wyoming, but lets be honest) square get such a big say?
Because those are the terms by that larger states agreed to to get smaller states to join

>>135575118
But if they don't take their own precedent seriously why should anyone else?

>>135564936
Give out electoral votes proportionally within the states. Come on guys is it really that hard? Everyone gets fucked and cadidates have to actually campaign. Now that 1/3 of California that's Republican and that 1/3 of Mississippi that's Democrat has a voice. Your precious rural vote is still protected, even strengthened in blue states! It makes races much more competitive, parties would be forced to campaign because they can no longer just bank on a safe state going their way by 55%, they'd have to consider how much support they have on a state by state basis. It makes the vote more representative of the people while still retaining the electoral college.

The other option I'm cool with is more autonomy given to the states.

>>135575027

>Jewish conspiracy to make anyone who criticizes Jews look unhinged.

I would never...ever be seen in public with a gormless coward like you, primarily because you are an abject pussy but alternatively because you will never afford and even if by some miraculous twist of personal fortune you could....you would play it safe.

>>135576014
>The other option I'm cool with is more autonomy given to the states.
Just dissolved the Union
The whole thing is fucked

>>135576014

Shut up and sit down...you wobbly fatuous goober.

Come on guysssssssss.....

>>135576014
That's not even an argument.
>guise
>hay
>you're being disempowered
>fight the system!

Fucking communist street agitators.

>>135576044
It's like you you generate your posts by letting a neonazi and a 10 year old with a thesaurus fill out a mad-lib.

>>135575503
My country industrialised this planet, changed everything about human existence and propelled us toward the future, you dipshit. We spawned your country too which has is ok when you weigh up all your good points and bad points but you're still fat
>>135575399
Haha ok rich af and not from there, why tf u on pol then

File: UK deadly weapon_zpsb2hse6tt.png (426KB, 578x526px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 578x526px

>>135576496
Those days are long gone Nigel

>>135576493
Well, I can't argue with that. Time to ditch the EC.

>>135575503
Those aren't the terms. They get their big say in the Senate, but the EC was never supposed to be as drastic as it is now. Small states were given some concessions, but it was agreed that larger states should have a large say.

The founders couldn't foresee the capping of the House, nor the eventual rise of cities as dense as they are now.

>>135565636
The US is a republic, not a democracy. It is you who hate the fundamental principles.

>>135576709
The Senate was 1/3 of the House when the Country was founded
It is now 1/4
It has less of an effect on the EC that it did

File: Serioisly.png (259KB, 488x314px) Image search: [Google]

259KB, 488x314px

>>135576219
>>135576355
> Strawmanning and meme phrases instead of actual discussion

When the actual commies finally come for us you'll be the first to hang.

File: 1501104746037.jpg (362KB, 1200x990px) Image search: [Google]

362KB, 1200x990px

>>135564936
>in 1968 nearly 80% of people polled
A number of people supporting an issue or not does not justify a solution(s) to it. Polls are worthless and so are (You)
>Nobody who defends it can come up with any coherent justification of it supported by the framers. People who support it don't do it for any other reason than because they think it lets them win.
The Electoral college establishes a property value in our voting system, which is trying to combat a mob rule. The way it operates allows people (Not just muh rural) to express their opinions with out having one or two states dictating our executive election. Congress is set up the same way, that is why we have a bi caramel legislature. It also is a good measure to regulate the civil rights given out for free and since everyone can vote now it would be wise to limit their prospective influence to just state wide; considering without it you would have a much harder time counting valid votes instead of illegal ones. The real problem with our electoral system is our political parties. Specifically, the (((Republicans))) and (((Democrats))) and the stigma of stupid American voters exists for a reason and such political parties will form in order to manipulate these people. This manipulation can be seen as the dismantling of the EC, which would allow political parties to leverage more votes, refer to previous explanation.

(OP), promptly end your life.

>>135571258
The name of the country is United States of America.

It is called "America" for short.

Just like how the name of the country is actually United Mexican States but we call it "Mexico" for short.

>>135576858

I'll quench your smoldering bones with transcendent arcs of my victory piss.

>>135576820
Oh wow, even though I talk about representatives (the foundation of a republic) because I want them democratically chosen (which matches the philosophical writings of the founders) I'm uniformed.

>>135576848
Yes, but compared the the VAST dilution of representation that individuals get, the effect is cancelled out.

The citizens of populous states now get 1/4th the voting power of some rural states in the EC.

>>135576870
Nice fanfic of the founders, but they left enough documentation behind to prove that the compromise of the EC is distinct from the compromise that gave us the house and senate.

It's all down to slave state representation and the 3/5ths compromise.

>>135564936
The representative republic is the best thing America has going for it when it comes to electing a President. Get fucked and go back to Britain if you want a popular majority vote.

>>135576493

Keep internally chanting that is the reason you'll amount to nothing in a world of nothing. I am sure there is a metamotivating slow golf clap minyan reward loitering in the doldrums of your deluded Weltenschauung waiting to claim you. Faggot.

>>135576633
You are presented a false image of what this country is really like as I am yours. We're fed FRIENDS and made to believe that you're all rich frat kids, none of the poverty. Same way you probably see us as Top hat wearing Etonians, when really it's more like Shameless (UK version obviously)

>>135577589
>The citizens of populous states now get 1/4th the voting power of some rural states in the EC.
But their state gets 25x what wyoming gets
If that is not enough then maybe they should leave the union

Weltanschauung^

>>135577785
We have a representative republic though by definition if we chose a president to represent us in the government.

The US would be a representative republic even if we all agreed the president should be chosen out of a hat.

File: 1501460458846.jpg (427KB, 800x1000px) Image search: [Google]

427KB, 800x1000px

>>135564936
>80% didn't see the wisdom of the electoral college
And there's your fucking answer.

Roman Republic gave 100 votes to top 5%, 4 votes to the destitute, and 100 votes to everyone else. Direct democracy and universal equal suffrage is an abomination.
/thread

>>135577884
>Same way you probably see us as Top hat wearing Etonians, when really it's more like Shameless (UK version obviously)
This is what I assume your country is like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-mDB3eaBgo

>>135564936
everybody hates the EC until their candidate wins with it

>>135577901
Well, if we are using numbers... the population of Cali is 67 times more than Wyoming. And the Gross state product is as well.

Perhaps California should talk to Trump about getting a better deal.

>>135578010

As long as there is a more generous possible outcome allotment than simply a disingenuously bifurcated (shit) or (crap) it could be a better process but definitely no worse.

>>135578137
>electing a representative is direct democracy

I can see why you keep that file on your computer

>>135578377
That's the problem

>>135578422
>Perhaps California should talk to Trump about getting a better deal.
Or what?
Why would Wyoming want to stay in the Union if they had their EC representation reduced by 2/3

File: ZuluSwedes.png (192KB, 556x240px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 556x240px

>>135578422
After they purge the millions of illegals from their rolls, possibly. California is likely a lean blue state without Dem corruption.

Or secede.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/noncitizen-illegal-vote-number-higher-than-estimat/

>>135578687
Too many anchor babies

>>135578422

What would the output be without water engineered in from other states? Perhaps the suppliers should have some of Krapifornia's votes and fortunes.

File: 1500205416181.jpg (12KB, 237x213px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 237x213px

>>135578595
The comparison is between Athenian direct democracy on one hand, and representative republics which apportion voting power on various factors.

I'm sorry you're far too uneducated to recognize this.

>>135578652
Because they still get superior representation in the Senate and an equal defense/access to the legal system.

>>135578687
I don't buy it, simply because Mexicans are some of the laziest voters in the US. Even when they are full citizens. Turnout is such shit, that if they did go to the polls in the same numbers as whites, Texas would be slightly blue.

Fucking Texas.

>>135564936
Its democracy, naturally its going to be trash. You can study your whole life and improve how democracy works within a specific country and when you are at your death bed youll realise that all you made was polished shit instead of unpolished shit.

>>135564936
Sounds good as long as states still control their elections. Btw, I represent Oklahoma and here are our 1 billion votes for the Republican candidate. Don't worry we ensure there is never any voter fraud.

>>135578884

What is monolithic ethnicity and why are you a foppish turd snuggling millennial megagaper?

>>135579054
>I don't buy it

Good argument. Read the study, and stop projecting your own laziness onto Mexicans.

>>135578884
... so choosing a single man to represent us in government/legislative matters is the same as having all citizens vote on each piece of legislation.

Seems legit

You seem to think I'm saying we should abolish the Senate, House, and Presidency to allow direct vote.

>>135579054
>get superior representation in the Senate
No they get equal representation in the Senate
California gets superior representation in the House
>equal defense
From what?
>access to the legal system
You mean so the Supreme Court can continue to let the Fed usurp power?

>>135579214
>we ensure there is never any voter fraud.

..or morning runs for mimosa party supplies.

>>135565622
What? Income tax absolutely is in the constitution

File: Penguin army.jpg (481KB, 1842x1200px) Image search: [Google]

481KB, 1842x1200px

>>135579268
>I can navigate to thesaurus.com
Well done.

>>135565066
>When the first post is the best post

File: 1501440519310.png (1MB, 696x931px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 696x931px

>>135579368
>Seem to be saying
You are literally the lazies mother fucker I've ever tried to debate with.

You're not equpped to debate these issues, but ironically, serve as an excellent example for apportioning voting power.

>>135579343
Read any voter turnout by race. I like how you responded to the only part of my post that wasn't a factual counterclaim.

Hispanics make up about 17% of the country, but only 8.9% of the vote.
>http://www.wcvi.org/latino_voter_research/latino_voter_statistics.html

File: 2016 electoral map population weighted.png (203KB, 1170x690px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 1170x690px

>>135564936
The EC does exactly what it's meant to do.

Even very early on, the Founders recognized how fragile the federation formed between the different states was - very different people in very different regions with very different economic needs, social ideals, and politics - the only way to ensure things would hold together was to set up checks and balances, not just between different branches of the government, but between the different regions. The EC ensures that presidential candidates can't simply appeal to one particular kind of voters or states, they need a platform that can appeal to a lot different ones.

There are 19,354 cities in the United States. Of these, 34 have populations of 500K or greater. These account for only 13% of the population and most of these major urban centers vote decidedly liberal. In a raw popular vote, a candidate could conceivably lose every other city in the United States 47-53, and still win the election if they carry those 34 cities by an average of 70-30 (completely within the realm of possibility, Clinton carried NYC, for example, by 81%). If you expand that to the 307 cities with populations of 100K or greater (what could be considered all "major" cities) they could lose smaller cities by 40-60 if they carry the larger ones with the same average margin.


The idea that 300 cities could overrule a 3/5ths majority by the other ~19,000 is one I find extremely disturbing, and I should think anyone who doesn't want to see the country become a larger scale version of a state like Illinois, where one major urban center consistently overrules the wishes of the rest of the state.

>>135579368

I'd like to abolish any chance of you procreating...how much would it take? I think I have 50K in Amerikan 100s left from this month's trust fund payout.

>>135579793
Are they citizens and over 18 at the same rate?

>>135579612

Never used a thesaurus faggot....super high functioning eidetic...Jew's worst nightmare in gloriously superior living flesh.

>>135579744
It's hard not to be lazy when all you need to do is point out that electing a president is by definition not a component of a direct democracy, because you are electing a representative to the government.

Sorry I'm not breaking my back coming up with unique ways to tell you "water is wet"

>>135579919

and registered to vote.

>>135566851
What part of Union dont you fucking understand, or are you looking for an echo chamber because this isnt it. Each state is its own indivual sovereign entity. The states have popular votes to determine their states vote for the prez of the union. Its funny you said before that there is no direct proof of the argument against mobocracy. It was a very fundamental part of the fucking argument. Especially considering one of the main problems was smaller states being concerned with being hijacked by bigger more densely populated states. That they wouldnt be represented fairly as a state in the union. In fact that compromise didnt just lead to the EC etc, it lead to the dif between a congressmen and a senator. Do you actually know what your talking about like at all..... Because the whole not being wanting to ran by whatever the biggest states wanted ( based on pop or territory), was a fundamental problem that almost stopped the US from being a thing that happened.

>>135579836
Yeah, there is no justification of this logic in any of the founder's writings. The purpose of the Senate was to counter populous states/cities from overpowering "lesser" states. The EC had different justifications which were already outlined in this thread (but boil down to keeping slave states at the table)

The EC also does not ensure that presidential candidates appeal to multiple voters. If you look at the issues and campaign stops touted by candidates historically, once they break the primaries they campaign in "swing states" most heavily.

What you sound like you want is increased representative count (to cater more heavily to each segment), weakening of the Presidency, and an end to "winner take all" voting.

>>135579863
Sorry, I've worked for my fortunes... and I've already done the whole "procreating" thing

>>135579919
The study only looked at eligible voters, so yes.

>>135580426

He abandoned the thread in favour of grabbing the leftover cholent to nosh on whilst pining for Benjy Shapiro during the battle of the witless.

>>135580608

Socks cannot get pregnant...no matter how sperm welded. 50K and I'll pay for the procedure.

>>135580426
That's an entirely separate debate. The Senate-House split is the reaction to "mobocracy".

The EC is the result of getting the slave state's agreement to come into the Union. With the 3/5ths compromise, it allowed them to count their slave populations (partially) without allowing them to vote, as they had X number of electoral college votes regardless of turnout.

Read the transcripts of the convention, and also the federalist papers.

>>135580904
I'm fine, 50K isn't that much either way. My sock also pulls in 6 figs, so the dual income is more than enough to support keeping things flowing.

Just a heads up, you may want to edit out any references to "high functioning" in your self descriptions

>>135580438
>The purpose of the Senate was to counter populous states/cities from overpowering "lesser" states.
And that provides balance for the Legislative Branch. The EC accomplishes the same thing for the Executive.

>If you look at the issues and campaign stops touted by candidates historically, once they break the primaries they campaign in "swing states" most heavily.
Swing states and the issues important in them change considerably from election to election. If you'd told politicians a decade ago that states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania would become swing states in 2016, they'd have laughed in your face.

>>135581308
Swing states do change, but over the course of decades. In the meantime everyone else gets ignored. It also creates a system where the President can be elected with 26 or so percent of the vote

When has the president last gone out to visit Wyoming during a general campaign?

>>135564936
The EC forces the candidates to go to every location, i.e county, even in rural America.

If you used the popular vote candidates would only have to go to places like LA, NYC, CHI, Miami, etc. Big population centers.

With EC, candidates have to go to each state and appeal to the people in each state and county. When you win the most counties in the state, you win the state and then, if the EC, goes with what the people voted they win the state getting their EC votes.

It allows states with a small amount of population to have the same power as states with Large amounts of population.

>>135581308
See
>>135581308
Short to the point and nail on head.
It's hilarious to me really, I saw the EC function exactly as it should in my lifetime. The EC did exactly what it was supposed to this past election and it was fucking amazing to the system in action.

>>135581240
>Just a heads up, you may want to edit out any references to "high functioning" in your self descriptions

You should practice breathing dirt...in between polishing the blech and filling the toothpick holder.

>>135581830
Candidates don't visit rural areas much at all though. They just visit swing states.

>>135582026
Maybe just edit out any reference to "functioning" then

I think the intelligence community should elect our president. The word intelligent is in their name afterall!

>>135581711
And do you honestly believe less populated regions would get MORE attention in a raw popular vote system? Don't be ridiculous.

>>135582192

Always laugh until it's time to cry. Tissue? I don't even know you!

>>135582409
I'm just saying that your argument for the EC shouldn't hinge on that it represents rural states, because it doesn't. It pays them lip service and (because it is a winner take all system) takes them for granted.

Right now there are millions of rural New Yorkers who shouldn't even really vote, as they will have no effect in the context of NYC. Under a direct system, their votes would matter.

I think that every voice should be heard. The President represents everyone after all. Hell, we should have instant runoff too, so I can vote for who I want instead of "against" someone.

>>135582409

>honestly

You'll BSOD him with this.

>>135582621
Well, you should come with a disclaimer I suppose. Only fair to anyone unfortunate enough to experience you. Just a more accurate one, please.

>>135581711
the reason people go to swing states is because they have a decent number of electoral votes and they often go from republican to democrat. democrats don't often go to california because california almost always goes to the democrats.

>>135582958

Robert Alexander is such a glorious name but Alexander Alexander would be doubly glorious!

I think the name Luci to be a visual abomination...it wants another "c".

File: 1500343030735.jpg (141KB, 1024x894px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 1024x894px

>>135564936
Deal with it faggots.

Come back little friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQRzl-Yx8s

>>135568655
Liberals never vote in state elections, conservatives would dominate in the short run

This is also why legislatures of the states are the ones who draw the districts

It's not a democracy. Deal with it

>>135583380
I understand the reason, I'm just saying that for a National level campaign, it's a stupid situation.

>>135584329
So... the government's power comes from land, not the people? Also, the EC creates a "winner take all" situation, so those red voters in blue areas (or blue voters in red areas) are ignored.

It's not like those counties went unanimously for either candidate.

>>135584681
We are though, just not a direct one.

>>135564936
The only other nation that uses an electoral college is India, for the same reason that the US needs an electoral college. Both nations are very large and regionalized, and under a popular vote system, one region can overpower another region against its will. With an electoral college system, regions are given a voice so that candidates have to appeal to as many regions as possible, rather than just the most populous regions. Abolishing the EC will destabilize American presidential elections, to the point where regions will want to see themselves as de facto nations rather than part of a greater whole.

>>135584728
Individual states don't have to be winner take all, even though most of them are. That's not the doing of the EC.

>>135584681

Federal republic

>>135586575
Yes it is, as the EC sets a delegate cap.

While some states may go "winner take all" for all the delegates, even in states that divide it up, the limited number of delegates forces a "winner take all" for each individual delegate. You've just cut the pie into smaller pieces, but the end result is still thousands of votes being ignored.

>>135587812
They're not ignored. That's how a representative system works, butthead.

>>135587812
>still thousands of votes being ignored.
all votes that go to a loser are ignored

>>135565752

and the Earth is flat and only 7000 years old.

>>135564936
>Nobody who defends it can come up with any coherent justification of it supported by the framers
>inb4 "protects rural votes"
Gas yourself.

Don't forget to sage.

>>135590539
It is not about rural vs urban
It is about small vs large states

>>135590717

>It is not about rural vs urban

Soon.

>>135564936
>Nobody who defends it can come up with any coherent justification of it supported by the framers.
Are you fucking retarded? Do you even know what the difference is between a republic and a democracy? In a democracy, the people can do anything, no matter how fucked up, if they can just get a majority. A (constitutional) republic has democracy only within the limits of conformity with that founding document. Amending it is intentionally difficult. It's keeps power-hungry mobs (such as liberals) from going ape-shit and instantly destroying civilization.

Now to the matter of the EC: You personally do not vote on any bills from congress. You vote on senators and representatives who supposedly carry out the will of the people who put them in office. The EC is exactly the same. You don't vote on the president. You vote for a person who is supposed to carry out the will of the people he or she represents. So if you are saying the EC is an outdated system, you should say congress is, too, you moron.

Finally, the most important purpose of the EC state electoral votes distribution system was to prevent states with lots of people from imposing their will on the rest of the states through shear power of numbers, like California importing a bajillion spic voters and then forcing laws on the rest of the states that say those states have to give all their money to California, for example. The ONLY people bitching about the EC are butt-hurt Hillary LOSERS who just won't accept that she agreed to the rules of the contest and Trump defeated her. The EC is fine. Leave it alone, faggot.

>>135565752
>Cali and Chicago probably had 3 million illegal votes between them alone.
One recent study estimated the number of illegal votes in the 2008 election at over 5 million. There's a reason California doesn't want voter ID. If five million conservatives were illegally voting in California, there stance on voter ID would flip overnight.

>>135568655
No Senators being picked by states legislatures was very important. It was the only check the states had on the federal government and now thanks to some people not understanding that it's gone. Look at the powers and budget of the federal government versus the states and tell me that isn't necessary.

File: 1492138752059.jpg (39KB, 528x492px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 528x492px

No thanks. New York, San Francisco & Los Angeles shouldn't be able to pick the president on their own.

Try to get rid of the EC and expect to be shot by the 60 million Americans who will defend it.

>P.S. Those 60 million Americans who support the EC are the ones who own and train with guns, good luck commie.

>>135590717
>It is not about rural vs urban
It IS about rural vs urban - see >>135579836

In a raw popular vote you could have a handful of major cities overrule a clear majority from the entire rest of the country.