Ahmadiyya

"Purest form of Islam"

"Rejects violence of the Quran"

These two statements.....get the fuck out of here with that shit.

>>135538570
They truly are the most humble and peaceful muslims out there. Theres a big Ahmadiyya community in my city and they do things like cleaning up the city after new years eve etc. The other muslims however hate them for whatever reason.

I like them. I know and see a few ahmadiyys in my area. They're literate hardworking people.

>>135538570
more details? I've been reading the quran and slowly wanting to convert.

Heretics

>>135538911

Fuck off burger. These are Muslims who have accomplished so much. There's no reason to hate on them.

>>135538570
>Not explaining why the actual Muslims hate them
You aren't hiding anything at all

Oi paki cunt. You guys Hate them for an irrelevant and stupid reason. You don't burn people's houses down just because they believe the 2nd coming is already here and you don't.

>>135539588
>Still hasn't explained why actual Muslims hate them
>Irrelevant
Ok. Also we can tell that you've changed your flag, your id remains the same. Stop trying to agree with yourself such as>>135539096

>>135539351
Care to Explain?

>>135538570
The Ahmadi are persecuted because they are wrong and a fucking joke.

Yes their "Islam" is better, but it isn't Islam at all.

Just read one of their Korans. Its like "Alas, Allah will strike with hellfire those led astray, and the believers should kill unbelievers in this earth"
-Then there will be a note at the bottom of the page saying "This actually says to give mercy to unbelievers in this world"

My flag is still a nazi flag, just changed pages a couple time.

The reason you guys hate them is because they believe in the promised messiah. It's dumb to attack people just because of that. You Muslims are disgusting who even attack other Muslims over the smallest things.

I don't care what form of Islam it is, stay out of the fucking west.

>>135539771
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya

Feel free to read yourself. Tldr: they claim to have false prophets and go against many Islamic teachings.

Now also notice his language and how aggressive he is. Ahmedis in a nutshell. You can't just redefine a religion by yourself such as Islam that's completely rigid in the fact that it can't be changed.

>>135540243
-Can't be changed

Except there are at least 27 Korans, witht he most recent being standardized in 1914 in Cairo. LOLOLOL

Not to mention the countless Hadith that the Caliphs published to certify their deeds as islamic. LOLOL

Yet muslims still claim that it was never change. "Just cuz"

What a load of bullshit. You can't just yell and scream the loudest and claim you won the argument by being the most obnoxious lolol a bunch of children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Zc67FrpWU

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I mean, they're the equivalent of mormons. Pretty nice, peaceful, and hardworking people, but it's not so much a "reform" of Islam as basically rewriting the book.

>>135540726
>there are at least 27 kroans
what the fuck am I reading

Does that fucking justify why you guys can treat them like shit?

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>>135538570
>What does Pol think of Ahmadiyya?

You can't be serious.

HURR DURR THEY BELIEVE IN FLASH PROPHET THROW EM I'M JAIL

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>>135538570
Ahmadiyya Ahmadiyya
Ahmadiyya
Ahmadiyya Ahmadiyya
Ahmadiyya
Ahmadiyya Ahmadiyya
Oh oh oh Ahmadiyya
Come and rock me Ahmadiyya

>>135538570
They seem okay but

>purest form of Islam
Naw senpai that's Shia

>>135539843
>Yes their "Islam" is better, but it isn't Islam at all.

So the best kind of Islam?

They sound like good people, OP. Are they connected to the Gülen-supporters? I know they are big on education as well.

No shias literally cut themselves over prophet hussein or some shit who died hundreds of years ago lmao

>>135540878
This has been cropping up a bit. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_heYx9OHBow

>>135540243
if something is violent, changing it to be non-violent is universally good

Islam must change and be progressive.

>>135540878
27 different variants of the koran through history, just like the bible had different versions.

Disproves the lie that the Koran has never changed throughout history and is holy incorruptible word of Allah.

>>135540726
>burger education

27 versions of quran,all which have words/prononciation diffrences
Compare a WARSH version to a HAFS one and the meaning is still there

>Not to mention the countless Hadith that the Caliphs published to certify their deeds as islamic. LOLOL
And when were hadiths considered divine or uncorrupt?because i am pretty sure we've got 3 types of them(authentic,weak,fabricated)

>>135541365
I don't feel like watching an hour-long video about some "muslims exposed" bullshit, to be honest. Do you have any direct, readable link to what you're saying?

>>135541464
Yeah, the quran was only transmitted orally until Muhammad's death, and the rashiduns decided to compile it into a single manuscript. However, it hasn't really changed at all since the time of the umayyads... and I really don't know from where you're pulling the "27 different variants" bullshit, especially the claim that the quran was revised in Cairo in 2014.

>>135539276
I didn't attack shit you fucking tard. I'm sure these shitskins are fine people, but it ain't the purest form of Islam.

>>135541419

Yes

>>135541557
The claim is that it's not just Warsh and Hafs etc, IIRC.

>>135541702
There are some comparisons at the end of this vid, from about 1hr 27m. See what you think. It's been making the rounds but I've not looked into it either for or against.

https://youtu.be/m6Zc67FrpWU?t=5220

>>135542023
... but those are different readings, not different versions of the quran. There's a hadith which talks about those.


Abd Al-Rahman Ibn Abd al-Qari narrated: “ Umar Ibn al-Khattab said before me: I heard Hisham Ibn Hakim Ibn Hizam reading Surat Al-Furqan in a different way from the one I used to read it, and the Prophet himself had read out this surah to me. Consequently, as soon as I heard him, I wanted to get hold of him. However, I gave him respite until he had finished the prayer. Then I got hold of his cloak and dragged him to the Prophet. I said to him: “I have heard this person [Hisham Ibn Hakim Ibn Hizam] reading Surah Al Furqan in a different way from the one you had read it out to me.” The Prophet said: “Leave him alone [O ‘Umar].” Then he said to Hisham: “Read [it].” [Umar said:] “He read it out in the same way as he had done before me.” [At this,] the Prophet said: “It was revealed thus.” Then the Prophet asked me to read it out. So I read it out. [At this], he said: “It was revealed thus; this Quran has been revealed in Seven Ahruf. You can read it in any of them you find easy from among them.

>Suyuti, a famous 15th century Islamic theologian concludes his discussion of this hadith:
>And to me the best opinion in this regard is that of the people who say that this Hadith is from among matters of mutashabihat, the meaning of which cannot be understood.

>>135542023
>IIRC

Also I forgot to mention, they recently raised 2 million for some hospital in Canada, they offer scholarships to their members with high academic marks and present them with plaques for academic achievement. They raised 1 million pounds of food for some food drive recently as well.

"Unity is strength"
These guys are showing that.

>>135538570
Taqiya. Now fuck off leaf
Also,
>first mosque built in Spain in over 500 years
Mosques don't belong in Spain. So again I say fuck off.

>>135542133
The similarities are extremely minor. It seems like it's an extra alif here, and so on. I don't know how much of an impact they'd have, though. A lot of these seem prior to harakat and i'jam.

>>135542254
Problem?

It would be better to have a world without Islam in it.

Islam is a sickness, the only cure is the cleansing fires of death.

And burning every Muslim isn't fucking possible. Which is why ahmadiyya is our only hope.

>>135538570
Mirza Ghulum was false prophet, that is all.

>1438

>People still don't believe Jesus (PBUH) is the messiah.

>Rejecting Hadith that make it clear Jesus (PBUH) will return and kill anti christ

WOW ABSOLTUELY HARAM

>>135541557
You can't tell what are divine or uncorrupt because you aren't god or a prophet.

Word differences are substantive differences.

The claim of an unchaging Koran is false and only perpetuated by the vast majority of muslims, and therefore almost all people intereted in the matter discounting the possibility, therefore it is rarely explored.

It makes sense that this is aggressively denied even as a possibility by muslims, because it is probably one of the most base arguments to the truth of their faith.

>>135541702
sorry you don't feel like watching an extended public dialogue. Maybe you are a little too interested in instant gratification,eh? Or just close minded?

I'm mostly into their humanitarian acts and how they act civilized. You can hate on them for contributing to society and believing in false prophets, but that gives your people no reason to burn their shit, throw them in jail, etc.

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>>135542430
>taqiyya in non-shia denominations of Islam

>>135542531
>A lot of these seem prior to harakat and i'jam.
Definitely prior to Harakat, as the earliest system of harakat was created by an Arab linguist appointed by Ali.

>>135542980
>Maybe you are a little too interested in instant gratification,eh? Or just close minded?
No, but when you're citing something which I really can't find anything about when googling, it seems more like bullshit than anything. If you can't cite any other source, then is your claim really credible in the face of more than 1400 years of study of the books? I think they'd have noticed if there were 27 different editions...

>>135538570
Heretical sect not open for globalist exploit at all

Don't know their views about jihad, but what I can be certain of is that they lie like the rest of the two-faced taqiyya pushing shít licking Muslims, so absolutely cannot be trusted. Which begs the question of why they lie? If we look to the normal Muslim fúkheads for an answer, it's to cover up their hostile, aggressive and expansionist teachings of Islam mostly, so it's to be assumed then that ahmadiyya lie for that exact same reason.

Basically, fuk all of them.

>>135542133
Ok so they are different "Readings" not differences.

You therefore would concede that there are not different Bibles, but rather different "Readings" would you not?

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>>135542980
>Word differences are substantive differences.
Except reading differences aren't word differences. Your argument is shaky as hell, friend: different qira'at of the quran have always been taken into account the same way that a fuckload of words have multiple meanings in the quran... which is why there isn't a single, unified muslim denomination with the One True Reading of the book.

>>135543271
the different Bibles are different translations of the original hebrew book. The original version of the quran is in Arabic, so your comparison isn't really apt.

Oh yeah and Mirza was a Freemason and a British agent sent to neuter Islam the same way the elites had neutered Christianity.

Ahmadiyya on jihad

"The jihad of the sword has ended. We now live in in the age of the jihad of the pen" -first leader of Ahmadiyya

This was from like the 1800s. He was calling upon Muslims to follow peaceful ways and to fight others with the pen, meaning, books literature etc. In fact the first leader of Ahmadiyya has written many books.

>>135538570
Ahmadis run interference for Islam in general whenever some goatfucker ruins/ends a white person's life.

>>135540243
>>135540878
lel the Koran wasn't even written in Arabic originally. It's a good thing for Islam that Muslims tend to be inbred retards.

>>135543102
I can't remember his name but yeah. Wasn't his slightly different though? And there was some guy who used different colours too - what happened to his style?

This is also why Islam needs apologists. Think of how many people are learning wrong things, if they are learning wrong things, from critics of Islam.

The only ones I know of are Naik and Deedat, who are jokes, and Shabir Ally who seems okay.

Why are there so few?

>>135542789
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWR3IkfHdLE

Just gotta think big.

>>135543638
I take it you've read Luxenberg's "Syro-Aramaic reading of the Koran".

>>135543587
Which is exactly what the imperialists British wanted.

>Good goy don't you ever dare stand up for yourself or fight for the truth, that would be backward and stupid.

>We have gotta build Solomon's temple goy and Islam is in the way.

>>135543359
By admitting that there are different readings, you are admitting that the Koran is not the perfect book that has been with allah for all time and unchanged since Mohammed confirmed it on earth.

How do you know which reading is right? Are you going to be so arrogant as to claim that yours is right and all the others wrong, while admitting that there are many other verisons with words that can mean different things, have different vowel marks, etc?

Whether a book is changed by translation to a whole different language, or changed by dialectical differences in Arabic or by vowel markings, or mis-remembering parts is irrelevant to the point, the point is that the claim that the koran is unchanged and perfect is false, or at least that we can not verify which is right.

>>135543587
Who does this guy Ahmaidyya think he is, a new Prophet? BLASPHAMY!

>>135543792
I've only read excerpts, but he seemed to have a strong case.

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>>135538570
cancer in any form is still cancer

>>135538570
I have no criticism of its system of religious morality. Usually are hardworking and honest people. It is not for me to say - as many do - that they are not true Muslims. This judgment belongs to the Almighty, only. However, I understand his liturgical interpretation, especially as regards Mirza Gullam Ahmad, as wrong. Not as monstrously wrong as the followers of Mirza Husain Ali, but wrong anyway.

>>135538570
>reject the violence of the Quran
So how are these Muslims?

>>135538570
He is the new Macarena

Heeeeeeey ahmadeeyAh!

>>135538570
the only muslims i know are ahmadiyya. nice folks, but they're the jews of the muslim world. Litigious as fuck. Very nice, otherwise, but cross them and they'll bring you to court for the rest of your life.

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>>135543638
>lel the Koran wasn't even written in Arabic originally. It's a good thing for Islam that Muslims tend to be inbred retards.
Elaborate?

>>135543685
>Wasn't his slightly different though? And there was some guy who used different colours too - what happened to his style?
Yeah, he was the one who used blue/red dots for that. Al Farahidi introduced the modern arabic diacritics.

>Why are there so few?
If I had to give an objective answer, I'd say it's because gulf states provide 99% of the funding for muslim scholars in the west... and we both know what kind of scholars they promote.

I'm not muslim, though, so I don't really give a shit about the religion itself. I just hate it when people lie/deceive to promote their agenda.

>>135543898
>you are admitting that the Koran is not the perfect book that has been with allah for all time and unchanged since Mohammed confirmed it on earth.
The writing has not changed, thus the quran is unchanged. Interpretations vary. Is that not normal?

>How do you know which reading is right? Are you going to be so arrogant as to claim that yours is right and all the others wrong, while admitting that there are many other verisons with words that can mean different things, have different vowel marks, etc?
The same way that people disagree on which interpretation of the quran is right: evaluate the context and other instances of the same rules/affirmations, which is how most of the ambiguity in the book is removed. Like I quoted earlier, there's a hadith which indicates all readings are right and that it only really depends on which one you consider easier to say.

There are only 10 "official" readings, as approved by the prophet before his death: meaning doesn't really change significantly between these.

>>135543851
>Muslims pray toward Jerusalem
>Muslims invade Jerusalem
>Muslims restore Jews and Judaism to Jerusalem
You're such good shabbos goyim you might as well rebuild the temple.

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>>135538570
NO, ISLAM IS FUCKING NIGGER LOVING DEVIL WORSHIP. NOW KILL YOURSELF LEAF HAMAN AHMAD THE GREAT FAGGOT SPAMMER

>>SAGE

Our best hope in turning Islam from stone age to progressive is ahmadiyya. You fuckers complain about Islam being shit and ruining the world, why not acknowledge ahmadiyya, and from there we could do more.

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>>135538570
>It's the purest form is Islam
>Islam
It's shit and should be abolished. All forms of Islam is fucking garbage.

>>135544062
Interesting. I've never read it, though I have a pdf copy. The idea of it seems too... far-fetched for me personally. Too convenient.

Here's a copy for anyone who wants to read. It'll be up for a few days.

https://www.expirebox.com/download/aea3192a91ba26c8a0444968e40af91e.html

>>135544175
I don't know how they differ.

>>135544356
Ah, that's true. Unfortunately Wahhabis and Deobandis, who are growing in the West, are pretty shit when it comes to being well-read and being able to argue things.

>>135544356
>I'm not muslim, though,
How does that go down in Morocco?

>>135544455
lel Ahmadiyya are like watered down Ismailis, except at least the Ismailis have been around for centuries

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>>135538570
>>first mosque built in Spain in over 500 years
Woah woah woah.

No.

I mean I'm just pointing out a possible way to reduce cancerous Muslims and make better people.

>>135544356
Ok so you admit the the oft repeated claim that the koran is the one perfect book is not exactly true, but that there are 10 different Korans that mean the same thing but are not exactly the same.

I guess where we differ is that I consider a "reading" to be "different". Although I don't really know if we do disagree because you used the word "different".

Maybe you could help islamic apologists stop acting like there are no differences in the text an modify the argument by saying there are 10 texts with the same meaning.

>>135544455
The best hope for Islam is that the rest of the world wakes up and wages a war so grand that it wipes Islam off the face of this planet.

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>>135544382
There is a difference between allowing Jews to pray and supporting Jewish supremacist international Zionism like the majority of Christianity does.

Zionism wasn't backed by Muslims but by Masonic Protestants from Anglo countries who had connections with oligarchic banking (which is banned in Islam) families.

If Jews want to pray no one has an issue with that, if Jews want to enslave all of humanity under a one world government that is what we have an issue with.

>>135539276
You dumb nigger. The Quran even specifically states that those who reject the fight of Islam are not Muslims and should never be considered as such. Gas yourself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basharat_Mosque

>>135538570

My nigga Yusef Lateef was Ahmadiyya


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YoapuIvv_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2vHZN7P39A

Wait holdups so Ifar mirza was a British spy sent room fuck up Islam, isn't that a good thing??? They're turning Islam from stone age to progressive to this day.

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>>135544642
>How does that go down in Morocco?
Family doesn't care, and as long as you don't shout about being an oppressed atheist in the middle of the street, nobody really cares if you're muslim or not.
We have plenty of vineyards and (pretty good) wines, after all, and the country respects freedom of religion and conversion.
Well, it's still forbidden to eat in public during ramadan, but I expect that law to be removed in the next few decades (it was put in place by the French during the protectorate, after all, even though not many people know this).

My great-grandmother forbade any of her daughters and granddaughters from wearing a hijab when they were young.

>>135544971
>I guess where we differ is that I consider a "reading" to be "different". Although I don't really know if we do disagree because you used the word "different".
The nuance in-between "official" readings are too small to matter. Usually, it's a related term which basically means the same thing. You'd have a much better argument talking about different interpretations of some terms which can have dozens of meanings (eg. moulay/mawla which is the source of the sunni/shia split due to whether or not Ali was destined to be the "lord of the muslims" according to that word or just a very esteemed person of the prophet's family if context is taken into account), but those are covered based on context and uses in other parts of the quran.

>>135544356
http://www.aramaic-dem.org/English/History/Christoph%20Luxenberg.pdf
The Hagarism theory also makes a good amount of sense: that Islam originally was a cult of Jews and Jew-worshipping Arabs hellbent on restoring Jews to the Holy Land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagarism
>Muhammad claimed biological descent for the Arabs from Abraham through his slave wife Hagar. This united the ancestors of the tribe with the religion, in the same way as the Jews claimed descent from Abraham through Sarah and their ancestral faith. During this early period, the Jews and the Hagarenes united under a faith loosely described as Judeo-Hagarism, in order to recover the holy land from the Christian Byzantines. The scholars believe that the early manuscripts from eyewitnesses suggest that Muhammad was the leader of a military expedition to conquer Jerusalem, and that the original hijra referred to a journey from northern Arabia to that city.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/27096936/Hagarism-The-Making-of-the-Islamic-World

>>135545170

Most of those verses are at best situational. You realize they're mostly references to the Mecca-Medina war, right?

>>135545483
Nice.

>>135545483
>My great-grandmother forbade any of her daughters and granddaughters from wearing a hijab when they were young.
Interesting. Why? I've seen things from Egypt from like the 1930s or whatever, and they were laughing about making the hijab mandatory.

Do you think Europe's in for an Islamic buttfucking?

>>135538570

Why is the nigga in OP's picture hiding a big ass bread stick in his turban? Crazy

>>135545483
if we're being real, what are the chances that Muhammad wanted anyone other than Ali to succeed him as leader of the Muslims?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Shi'a were right in picking their leader, although that counts for little when history is written by victors

>>135545437
Obviously it is good to you because you hate God and hate morality, we know you want to live in a society where homosexuality, adultery, and polytheism are rampant. But it doesn't matter, all your efforts are in vain, you will never defeat the truth and you will never alter or change Islam in any way shape or form.

Truth has come and falsehood will be obliterated.

>>135538570
Questions not answered:
Do they believe in Sharia Law?
Do they believe the Christians and the Jews cannot be friends with Muslims? As outlined in Ayat 5:51
What about Jihad?
What about all the other backwards ass stuff in the Koran?

>>135545525
The Hagarism theory has been shot down by pretty much everyone other than Patricia Crone. It's only significant in that it started the new trend of critical assessment of primary and secondary sources of early Islamic history, but the conclusions that Crone and Cook drew were pretty farfetched, more argument than evidence.

Donner's book is actually far more appealing. Donner argued that Islam started off as some kind of pan-monotheist alliance that only become a distinct religion when the khulafah and the Umayyads began to carve out a distinct Islamic identity

>>135538570
>Ahmadiyya
They are OK!

>>135539093
This they are muslim mormons

>>135546307
1. Which Shari'a branch are you referring to? Which school of fiqh? Please clarify
2. 5:51 says not to take Christians and Jews as your awliyah, or your protectors/lieges. Awliyah is SOMETIMES translated as friend, but more accurately means protector, master, or liege.
3. What about jihad?

>>135539096
You dumb retard, changing your flag doesn't change your ID.
Get the fuck out of here shitskin, can't wait to have you all impaled across Europe.

>>135545112
Judaism has repeatedly been advanced in Christian territories by Muslims. Umar in Jerusalem and the conquest of Spain are the most notorious examples, but today the guardians of Mecca openly cooperate with the Jewish state. The suggestion that Muslims have ever been less than friendly toward Jews rings hollow.

>>135546328
>Donner's book is actually far more appealing. Donner argued that Islam started off as some kind of pan-monotheist alliance that only become a distinct religion when the khulafah and the Umayyads began to carve out a distinct Islamic identity
I'll have to look it up. It's always seemed strange to me that the Koran has shit from Zoroastrian and Hermetic texts beside the Abrahamic and Arab stuff.

>>135545525
I feel that all these books about the "secret origins of islam" all rely waaaaay too much on hebrew/greek/syriac/aramaic/etc manuscripts while completely ignoring the huge amount of arab sources on the same matters. Thanks for the links, though, I'll keep them in my bookmarks.

>>135545741
>Why? I've seen things from Egypt from like the 1930s or whatever, and they were laughing about making the hijab mandatory.
>from like the 1930s or whatever
I wouldn't go that far back, but muslim society in the 60's/70's/80's was much more liberated/accepting in their practice of religion than now. (the video you saw is of Nasser's speech, who was the leader of Egypt during the 50's and 60's)
In general, this was an era of troubles but Arabs were also much more positive/hopeful about the future back then. There was a cultural renaissance (with Cairo being at the center of it), a lot less poor people (middle class doubled in a few decades), panarabism was at its strongest... those things were all fueled one way or another by the rise of arab nationalism through leaders like Hafez Al-Assad, Gaddafi, Nasser, and Saddam. However, it was also a very hard era, where political dissent was repressed (whether it be communist or islamist) and the threat of a coup was omnipresent... it was the cold war, after all, and the Middle East was in the middle of the USSR and the US' playground.

There are multiple things which caused the decline in hope for arab nationalism (disillusion when it comes to cohesion between Arabs, loss of yom kippur war in addition to the 6-day war earlier), and islamism rose both due to hate of imperialist/western powers (unfair sanctions imposed on Iraq, then Iraq war) and the establishment of very strong salafist networks following the war in Afghanistan and embargo'd Iraq, where the population went from the second most-developed country in the middle east to the gutter hole not even rats would want to live in at the end of 90's/early 2000's. (cont.)

>>135547127
Salafism is the death of classical Sunni Islam.

>>135547127
That sucks. It makes me concerned about my own nation's future.

Best of luck, anon.

>>135546782
Judaism its self is not something inherently evil. In the Islamic state the Christian and the Jew are allowed to practice their religion freely as long as they meet certain criteria. Those being Jizya which is the obligatory charity that is used to feed and clothe the poor. Many Christians welcomed the Muslims taking control because the jizya tax was less than the tax the Byzantine empire required, and because there was less corruption in the Muslim rulers at that time.

Islam is not anti Judaism but is anti Zionist. This is not antisemitism of the Nazis who hated Jews as an ethnicity.

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>>135545741
all this, fueled by the endless source of cash from gulf nations, led to the rise of islamic conservatism in society, and eventually at best political islamism and at worst radical islamism/jihadism.

>Do you think Europe's in for an Islamic buttfucking?
As long as they keep meddling in the region with """revolutions""" while supporting their trusty gulfie wahhabi allies? Yes. Maintaining open borders and letting salafism rise unchecked in countries like the UK only makes it ten times worse, as you're letting a domestic community develop.

>>135547127
Islamic revivalism is to blame for them being fucking retarded.

It's like African evangelicalism on steroids

I'm pretty sure these guys think Buddha was a muslim prophet

they seem like decent people simply because they break some of the pillars of islam

>Ahmadiyya
>muslim
It's like islam version of
>Argentina
>white

>>135547781
Do they really? They're just non-violent Sunnis who think the Mahdi already arrived

>>135540756
That's a great thing. I wouldn't care about Islam if it was peaceful.

>>135538570
Slow down there ahmad. Are you saying that we should believe your taqiyya? That is to say, Ahmad's Taqiyya, or Ahmadiyya for short?

>>135540878
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_manuscript
oh noooooo

that sucks

>>135548031
if the mahdi were real, muslims would kill him for falsely claiming to be the mahdi

>>135538570
If they're willing to be peaceful then it's not a problem.

>>135547509
>Islam is not anti Judaism but is anti Zionist.
In that case realpolitik is little excuse; Muslims should be fighting the Jews instead of working with Jews to fight each other.

> This is not antisemitism of the Nazis who hated Jews as an ethnicity.
Recognizing the behavior of Jews as an ethnic strategy is more important than the religious objections to Judaism. Liberal, non-religious Jews probably smell better on average but are a far greater threat to their hosts than religious Zionist Jews.

>>135548031
p.s. nonviolence in general goes against the belief that the rules made up by muhammad are the literal unaltered word of god

>>135547264
salafism is classical sunni islam, it's even quite literally in the name

>>135545170
Well if people started calling themselves Muslims while rejecting that violence maybe things would change hmm?

>>135538570
If islam is going to continue exist I'd rather it was non violent and relatively peaceful.
But violence and totalitarianism is such a core of islamic values that it can't really be separated.

>>135547509
we will take over all islamic land and allow muslims to practice their religion only if they pay an obligatory charity that will be used to feed and clothe the poor

many muslims will welcome us

>>135548355
I agree.

>>135548707
How could they change it possibly? Like undergo a reformation?

>>135538570
That guy need to change his diaper. Looks full.

>>135548231
>Although the Yemeni authorities' openness proved a boon to scholarship, they were to be punished for it. The American media amplified the erroneous words of G. Puin, purveying a narrative that belittled Yemen and misrepresented the work done there. The Arab press in turn exaggerated the American story. The outcome was a media discourse in Yemen borne of three stages of misrepresentation. This embarrassed the Yemeni authorities responsible for the House of Manuscripts, and the Head of the Antiquities Department had to defend before Parliament the decision to bring in the foreigners.
America, not even once

>>135548740
OK go ahead. That sounds great Muslims already pay Zakat, and Muslims pay the most charity out of any religious group in the world already so yeah that would be great.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/21/muslims-give-most_n_3630830.html

>>135549290
Why not archive?
https://archive.is/WFopB

>>135548589
Yeah, then they could just breed in peace and take over our countries and normal white people wouldn't care at all until it was too late to kick the ragheads out. Much better.

>>135545921
>doesn't want to fuck goats or bang head on ground for ever
>must hate god
See...this is why we want to fucking kill all muslims. This shit right here.

>>135538570
that muslim leaf again

>durr what do think of muzztards
>purest form of muzztards
>butthurt noise

do I hear the raking machines warming up?
better go back to muzzi land faggot

>>135549290
Is it really chairity when much of that is the Gulf dictators paying oil money to "Charities" to blow people up?

You know those who give resources to jihad are awarded just like those who fight....

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Ahmadi's are basically like Mormons in The Islamic World, for good and for ill.

They've got a reputation as incredibly friendly folks, but to the Islamic world their beliefs are "weird" at best and heretical at worst. They're okay folks, but not really representative of Islam nor do they have a chance at being some major reform movement.

>>135548579
How on earth is a 1800s movement the same as Sunni Islam which was around for centuries prior?

>>135545921
desu homosexuality and adulterous rape are synonymous with Islam and the absurd reverence for Muhammad verges on idolatry or polytheism.

>>135550086
I guess what they mean is that salafism is an attempt to "purify Islam", bring it back to its roots and get rid of all they consider innovations along the way.

>>135538570
they are uncle toms to their religion

>>135549744
Yeah because that is where 100 percent of the charity goes. Man internet racists are so boring and predictable to talk with.

>U fawk goat AHHA

>ur profit waz pedo HAHAHA

>Muzlimacs r mean to gay people and women dats y we gotta kill dem

>>135549414
I don't care if people are white or not, I care if they are civilized. If they're civilized and peaceful they're good, if they're dumb and violent, get them out. Simple as that.

>>135550197
So it's basically pre reformation Catholicism?

>>135547509
>Islam is not anti Judaism but is anti Zionist
cough, cough, (taqiya, mumble, mumble, bullshit)
"The Hour will not begin until you fight the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: ‘O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him"

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>>135538570
they are having a big festival, jalsa salana, near my little town this weekend. it's like muslim glastonbury only without any fun
literally thousands of the fuckers have turned up. i hope they all fuck off again soon

whenever you see a muslim doing something decent and normal you can bet it's an ahmadi. that's why other muslims hate them. a while ago there was an ahmadi shop owner in scotland who wished everyone merry christmas and some other fucknut turned up and knifed him because he wasn't being muslim enough

>>135550086
could say something about mormons and christians here but really i don't give a fuck

>>135550615
Wouldn't really say that... reformism/protestantism is more associated with sola scriptura, so the equivalent would be quranism (which has never really taken root in islam).

They reject the traditional schools of thought of sunnism and favor a literal interpretation of quran and hadiths as opposed to taking into account context. They also refuse religious innovations (bid'ah) in the sense that they consider all innovation to be heresy.

>>135549290
you miss the point that muslims can't tolerate being under anything other than muslim rule

why, then, should i tolerate the gradual imposition of islamic rule?

>>135550287
what is the punishment for apostasy?

>>135548740
This is a great idea. I have another one.
When the muslims took over Jerusalem, they put a sign on the dome of the rock that says "God has no son". I think we should change that to "God has no prophet".
The tears of 1&1/2 billion Muslims will be enough to irrigate the Sahara (truly a miracle worthy of Allah).

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>>135551604
According to the Moroccan consul of ulemas, the verse declaring death for apostasy actually refers to high treason towards the state.

>>135551670
"muhammad made it up to satisfy his own desires"

>>135551859
deception does not work very well when the primary literature says plainly "kill the fuckers"

>>135550512
>I don't care if people are white or not, I care if they are civilized.
Diversity plus proximity equals war. Just as taxation is indistinguishable from strong-arm robbery, civic "nationalism" is indistinguishable from race war. Simple as that.

>>135550615
More like Protestantism. ISIS is the Muslim equivalent of, say, the Münster Rebellion.

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>>135551988
>"The Prophet, peace and salvation of Allah be upon him, said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him', which is a hadith depending on the one following it: "one who abandons his religion and who betrays his group" . Apostasy, which was then only about joining a group of polytheist opponents in a context of wars, is therefore a political matter, not religious."

>>135538570
islam is still islam/quran. if you are a good moral person, you will reject islam and the horrible quran. if you remove all the bad stuff in the quran, there will be no islam left.

>>135550287
You stupid fucking raghead. Sarcasm and hurr durr-ing your opponent only works when he's talking complete fucking nonsense.
Doing it at any other time makes you look like a retard (but since your flag is a muslim one, I'm not surprised you stooped to such sewer level debating tactics). Clever debate has never been your strong suit, has it?
If you REALLY want to make yourself look like am intellectual clown to the online community, you should just post some dribble brained shit from that book you think is so fucking great.
If you lot actually posted what it says in the koran, you'd be even more of a laughing stock than you are now. People puzzled as to why you're so agressive would finally say to themselves "Oh, I get it now...he's a fucking moron!"

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>>135552213
>Münster Rebellion (1534-1535)
>The pamphlets at first denounced Catholicism from a radical Lutheran perspective, but soon started to proclaim that the Bible called for the absolute equality of man in all matters including the distribution of wealth.
Fucking proto-commies, they're everywhere!

>Diversity plus proximity equals war. Just as taxation is indistinguishable from strong-arm robbery
Nice job injecting your own economic positions into that

>>135552703
>Nice job injecting your own economic positions into that
desu I was strawmanning Libertarianism for rhetorical purposes

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>>135553232
My bad, carry on then

>>135552213
I've never totally agreed with wars being caused by race per se, but by different cultural norms. Now those of different colors certainly typically have different values, but whites often do between each other as well. That's why Germany attacked Russia and countries that are white went to war for centuries despite looking the same. Do you think if those of other colors held the same cultural values, do you believe it would still be a problem personally, I'm curious as to your reasoning.

>>135552428
convenient, being that the muslim and nonmuslim world are always engaged in a struggle with each other

>>135538570
>>135539276
You don't deserve to use the nazi flag. Them building the first mosque in Spain is not a good thing you fucking cuck. They are simply a different arm of the same beast: Islam. One arm is trying to stab you (ISIS and the like) while the other arm is giving you flowers, but both arms stem from the same animal.

>>135553583
The hadith wasn't revealed during a time of war with the west, though, so your point is moot.

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>>135552620
LOL u mad hahaha.

Uh oh I look like an intellectual clown on the internets

Trying to have a conversation with you guys is pointless it's always just

>Opposite of what you said.

>Your doing taqyyia

>Muslims are gay and degenerate

>Muslims are also mean to gays

>Muslims are pawns of the Jews

>Muslims are also mean to Jews

>False accusations that all of the charity given to poor people by Muslims is going directly to terrorists

It's like arguing with children. I'm out salam bro's.

>>135553659
what does it matter who specifically is the enemy? they are all kuffar

>>135539742
Muslims hate them because they see this indian dude as the next prophet, the madhi or whatever. Which is very bad to mainstream islam, as Muhammad was the last prophet to be sent, according to the Quran,

>>135540878
Something you reject to believe no matter how much hard evidence is thrown into your face. Koran is a tool. It gets modified from time to time to serve it's needs

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>>135554080
>from time to time
senpai, quran hasn't changed since the umayyads. At that time, islam was present in a region MUCH bigger than just Mecca and Medina. It was impossible to "modify it from time to time".

For now, I haven't seen any hard evidence of the "27 different modified kurans" meme. We were having a nice discussion about different readings, but that's a different thing altogether (and it absolutely wouldn't need any "modification from time to time").

Purest? No. Most tolerable to most people's sentiments? Hell yes. They're pretty cool.

>>135554295
stop posting idolatrous imagery

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>>135554378
>implying I'm muslim
for all I care, all religion can go down the shitter, but they're useful tools of social cohesion and I have serious doubts about whether or not the world would be better if they were gone, so eh.

>>135553669
>False accusations that all of the charity given to poor people by Muslims is going directly to terrorists
>all
See? Taqiya. You fucks literally can't help yourselves. Not only do you lie, but you try to put that lie into anothers mouth. And yet you continually ask why we don't trust you.
And yes, you are a fucking clown. Running away because you lost.

>>135553566
My view is that genetic ties are stronger than ideological ones. When genetically similar populations come into conflict, their conflict will be ideological in origin. When unrelated populations conflict, while to a certain extent ideology will play a role, political predispositions are informed by heritable habits and thought patterns; the root of violence will be genetic diversity. Only in a homogeneous society can politics be discussed without every conversation being implicitly about race.

It is true that disagreement and even war occur within races and between differing nationalities and ethnicities. However, those are conflicts at a smaller scale. Race can cross ideology, but in the end my cousin and his cousin will fight against the enemy tribe.

>>135538570
I live in a 80% Sunni country and I never heard what an Ahmadiyya is, let alone persecute them.

>>135538570
The only ok Muslims hence they're terrorised by other muslims

Ahmadiyya sounds like totally pozzed hippy islam.
Isn't the main temple in Israel today or something? Tbh it sounds like weaponized religious movement to "modernize" islam

>>135556694
The temple you're thinking of is Baha'i, which aren't even muslims.

>>135556694
Their main temple is in London, as if there's a difference.

>>135555741
Saw this docu on an Amazonian tribe once (sorry, that's all I've got for source). Anyway, these anthropologists were studying the interaction of these village tribes in a region. Because they had taken DNA samples from all the villagers, and had been studying them for years, the scientists knew who was related to who and how closely. The society was exogamous, so a guy from one village could well be the 3rd cousin from someone the next village along.
One day a fight broke out. Someone got upset about some shit, and went with several mates to a nearby village to have it out. Long story short, a couple of people got stabbed. One even died, I think.
What was interesting was that when the scientists watched the video of the incident afterwards, they noticed that all the fighters were piling in, but avoiding injurous conflict with close relatives EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE RELATED.

We seem to have an inbuilt instinct to recognize and prefer our own tribe/family/gene pool.

Muslims are disgusting filthy subhumans.
There is nothing wrong with killing all the muslims.

>>135541152
Fpbp

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>>135538570
A religion that has to take the time to justify the child-raping done by their infallible founder is never going to be laudable in my eyes.

A religion that also has to take the time to justify divinely mandated genocide preached by its founder is never going to be laudable in my eyes.

A religion that also has to completely deny and contradict their founder and founding text in order to be able to tolerate foreign ideas and religions is never going to be laudable in my eyes.

Islam definitely needs to have its version of the Enlightenment for all this factionalization, international violence, etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on etc. etc. etc. to finally stop. But let's be honest. The best thing would be for the billion Muslims in the world to just renounce Islam and become atheists or convert to a non-dogmatic religion.

>>135545646
Then why the fuck doesn't your almighty Allah fucking state it in the fucking verse "oh this is only for war btw" instead of leaving it fucking opened for centuries and for generations of Muslims to fucking interpret you autistic fucking faggot. This doesn't fucking explain sura 9 either, so go fuck yourself with your goatfucker of a phophet and your excuses.
>>135538570
>first mosque built in Spain in over 500 years
>good
Muslims out of my fucking country.

>>135545646
>>135561085
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You two DO KNOW that the Quran is the perfect word of Admiral Ackbar himself. You can't reinterpret it. If you even try, you'll be thrown into the Death Star reactor and never have 72 twilek qts attending to you.

>>135540878
Burger education
I think he means the readings,like hafs. Don't mind him he's autistic and there hasn't been anything in 1914 because the britbongs forbade any religious meetings
Average burger

>>135540756
Difference being that almost all sects of Christianity are peaceful.

>>135548132
So you don't care about western values or culture? Nice one.

>>135547509
>In the Islamic state the Christian and the Jew are allowed to practice their religion freely as long as they meet certain criteria.
>can't build churches
>no evangelicalizing (preaching)
>no religious symbolism allowed outside of building except for crecent moon and star
>Muslims cannot convert to other religions or deconvert (death penalty is applicable)

>>135554699
When shitfucks don't know what taqiyya is

It's literally a tool for Ismailis to hide out among Twelvers and Sunnis while the Mongols and Turks were pillaging through their lands. The Ismailis haven't even observed Taqiyya since the 1700s when it became relatively safer to be an Ismaili

No terrorist group would ever adopt taqiyya without being hypocritical. They claim to detest Shi'a "innovations" to religion, so why would they utilise one such innovation used by a Shi'a group?

>>135556141
It's a sect concentrated among Pakistani/Indian Muslims. Started in Lahore.

>>135557035
yep, i fucked up

I say when we go Deus vulting, after dividing the rest of the Islamic world, the ahmedaiyya can have the Arabian peninsula, for being good heathens, but we take ALL the oil so they can't jihad for their former lands.