/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL

>British libertarian

So what, a socialist lite?

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>>135447172
As much as I love this country, I hate it's government - Ideally, I'd get out of western europe sooner than later.

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>>135446784
Hail /lrg/

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>Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property | Lew Rockwell
https://mises.org/library/open-borders-are-assault-private-property
>Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal | Lew Rockwell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wZjdEl9F8
>Nations by Consent | Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/11_1_1_0.pdf
>Natural Order, the State, and the Immigration Problem | Hans-Hermann Hoppe
https://mises.org/system/tdf/16_1_5.pdf?file=1&type=document

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It's funny how Ancaps are supposed to be opposed to communism yet the idea of anarchism is purely a marxist idea. The end goal of communism is to dissolve the state. Really gets those almonds activated? Plus the free market isn't going to magically preserve your people or your values. How can anyone follow this absolutely degenerate ideology. Isn't it made by a fucking kike named rothbard? The only "people" we should be throwing from choppers is these faggots

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>>135447853
Lets be clear here, faggot.
National Socialism is authoritarian center left-wing faggotry. National Socialism does not exist as the antithesis to communism but rather a more pragmatic competeing form of socialism. Hitler, just like Mussolini and all the other fascists were inspired by far left socialism in their youth. It is the basis of the ideology.

ALL socialists get the airbourne oven. cuckboy.

Yo, back from the corax conference, took notes on Hoppe's speech, attended Julie Borowski's too and yesterday Jeff Deist, had drinks and a chat with Hans Hermann Hoppe himself and plenty of other ancaps here, fucking awesome experience, doing an AMA if anyone is interested.

Feel free to ask!

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>>135448512
fuck yeah man, been waiting for you to show up!
What was hoppe's speech on?
What did you talk to him about?
does he know of his legendary memes?

>>135447853
>>>/trash/

But I'll refute it anyways.

>anarchism is purely a marxist idea
Anarcho-capitalism is to classical anarchism as national socialism is to socialism. We define anarchism as the belief that there is no political legitimacy, and thus the government is just a massive gang.

>Plus the free market isn't going to magically preserve your people or your values.
No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean we don't support preservation of values.

>>135448246
There is a difference between Marxist Socialism and right wing socialism fucking retard, look at marxism and you will see it takes nothing from marxism. It took the best of socialism and capitalism, and it fucking worked, got Germany's economy off its feet. Anarcho capitalism only works the world of theory, and extremely specific scenarios, drop your meme ideology

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>>135448855
anarcho-capitalism is every voluntary interaction you do. It's existed before your shit dysgenics program.

>>135448246
You had some nice arguments before you started sperging out about
>muh helicopter

>>135448855
Yes we know, you're basically social democrats with pro-white sentiments.

Guess what; social democracy fell apart in Nordic countries, where it was implemented the longest. The ideas of centrally planning the economy and feeding people into a massive welfare state is a relic of the 20th century.

>>135449177
Okay?
and?
Feudalism existed before Natsoc aswell, that doesn't mean its better or some shit

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>>135448748
His speech was about how we should achieve liberty and about the alt right as allies in opposition to left libertarians.

We had a long talk (1 hour+, more people were there but I was talking the most with him and he was mostly addressing me, which felt fucking amazing)

We touched multiple issues, Trump, memes about him, misunderstandings on his critics, IQ/Bell curve, Korwin polemic, private cities, being in favor of freedom not meaning you have to engage or allow everyone around you to partake in every single potential activity/degeneracy, etc.

He does know about the memes, told me people are sending memes to him all the time, made multiple references today to "memes" such as physical removal and a Europe of a thousand Liechtensteins, told him "you realize these memes work in your favor?" and he replied he knows, laughing, that these memes made him very famous, basically he's loving it, he even commented the youtube video about him throwing someone out of a helicopter lol.

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>>135449492
Feudalism is better than National socialism.

So what's the Libertarian stance on Obamacare?

First we need to clean up the world then we can have liberty

>>135449596
send Obongo back and close the borders.

>>135449504
sounds awesome, glad he knows of his legacy
what did he say about trump?

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>freedom
shiggy

>>135449971
He had hopes about him but quickly lost them the moment he decided to bomb Syria and that he's proving to be another puppet of the deep state.

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>>135449659
You need to clean up yourself. That iis liberty.

>>135449596
It's a dumpster fire. It basically eliminates the health insurance industry as it forbids insurers from discriminating based on preexisting conditions - meaning that if you're already sick the policy costs the same as if you were healthy. Since the penalty for not buying insurance is less than the cost of insurance more and more healthy people are getting off insurance. Health insurance is funded by healthy people paying for it so now that there are fewer of them the insurers have to raise prices - which causes even more people to drop their insurance. It's the same as if you mandated by law that car insurance firms couldn't give you a higher price for insurance if you're car is already crashed when you buy the policy.

>>135450044
>freedom comes from choosing what is right
yeah, we all agree.

Reminder that these threads are made by leftypol shills.

For those of you who advocate libertarianism because you believe it upholds liberty the best can you define liberty and explain why it is important enough to warrant basing your entire political views around?

>>135450248
Because being forced to be associated and assume other people's mistake is an infinite source of conflict.

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>>135446784
Am I qualified?

>>135450354
You don't seem to be the type of person I addressed that question to. You seem to advocate libertarianism primarily on practical grounds not in principle. You didn't answer my two questions either.

>>135450044
fascist mysticism is hilarious
post more

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>>135450248
pic related

>>135450430
Depends, do you own yourself?

>>135447065
only small l libertarians want open borders. Illegal immigration is a violation of the NAP

>>135450560
This doesn't answer either of my questions. Liberty is not even mentioned in the quote.

>>135447468
>libertarian
>against weed

>>135450590
I'm not for open borders, but by what logic do you derive it violates the NAP? I can't see how it does, at least not per se.

>>135450473
I advocate for libertarianism but I don't think libertarianism implies you base your entire political views around liberty. You might advocate for liberty but it's not mutually exclusive with holding beliefs beyond dude weed lmao. Just like advocating for you to be able to drug yourself to oblivion does not mean I would like people I actually care about to do the same.

There's practical grounds and there's principle. For me libertarian is not just the most moral ideology, it's also the one with the best outcome.

I responded to your question ignoring the straw-man part of it.

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>>135449580

>>135450584
yes
and I had a gun from the black market back in the day

>>135450248
liberty is choice and responsibility. Free will and the consequences of your actions. I want to do what I know is right, not what obama, trump, or hillary clinton thinks is right.

It in essentail for our future that we make the moral choice, not having blind faith in your rulers to make the hard choices for you.

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>>135450498
not really mysticism, or funny for that matter. pic related is closest i have

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>>135450862
acceptable

>>135450838
pretty good meme, feudalism is still pretty great.

>>135450747
A country is like one massive piece of property, and illegals coming in is like me entering your house without your permission, even if i did clean you vase

>>135450747
But my argument depnds on wether tresspassing on private property violates the NAP, which I am pretty sure its a large part of the NAP

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Is Unreal Tournament /ourgame/ ?

It's pretty much ancap. Huge transplanetary corporations pitting people each other to die to the enjoyment of the crowds.

>>135451132
>>135451206
Trespassing is aggression, but how is a country 'like one massive piece of property'? According to the homesteading principle.

>>135449596

Here's a libertarian economist's take on Obamacare.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2017/05/18/individual-insurance-buyers-were-better-off-without-obamacare/#5582c09d6942

I would recommend looking at more of his stuff if you want to know what libertarians make of health care.

>>135451282
Why not archive?
https://archive.is/a26WX

>>135448840
>no shit sherlock
Thats why I have problem, you have to enforce it with a state so that you can better society with culture, people must not break from this, it has been with a people for so long to just break away from it after 100s of years would damage the country as it is built on it. to just remove it would lead that people towards degeneracy.

>>135451268
Even though government is not legitimate, they are useful, and you could say that government is like a protector of you land which you were forced to employ

>>135451511
>They are useful
I disagree.

>>135449446
>all countries that take this tiny piece of an economy will lead to destruction no matter what else is added with it
wew lad

>>135451387
Democracy and the state is what is removing this culture.

Total abandonment of the social institutions that create culture (family, church, community) because the state has taken the role of all of them and eliminates any interaction necessity.

What we propose perpetuates culture by decentralizing and by enforcing newcomers to adapt to the culture of the place they're coming to with the help of contracts.

>>135451637
I think Anfash is good when you have a degenerate country which is divided

>>135450806
Okay I'll grant you that being a libertarian doesn't mean you have to base your whole political positions around liberty. However, you still haven't answered my questions. I asked you to define liberty and explain why it is important. Your newest post let me know that you consider libertarianism to be the most moral ideology and the one with the best practical outcome. Am I to understand that as you saying that an ideology that upholds liberty the most is the most moral? Okay. But that still doesn't answer what liberty is or why it is important. You say it is moral to uphold it but what is it, and why is it moral to uphold it?

>>135450913
>liberty is choice and responsibility. Free will and the consequences of your actions.
Okay so you define liberty as having the ability to make free choices and having responsibility for your actions and the consequences of your actions.
>I want to do what I know is right, not what obama, trump, or hillary clinton thinks is right.
>It in essentail for our future that we make the moral choice, not having blind faith in your rulers to make the hard choices for you.
Okay so if I understand you correctly liberty is important to you because it allows you to make what you consider to be the most moral choices. This means that the importance of liberty to you is secondary to the importance you place on making moral choices. I would need to you explain why you believe there are moral choices to be made before I could agree with you that it is important to allow people the freedom to make moral choices.

>>135451031
Not as good as Natsoc,
Sure maybe it worked, but I'd rather live in a fair system rather than one that extorts a chunk of their own people to benefit those of higher classes.

>>135451268
The states property is illegitimate, it has attained and enforced public property with our tax dollars. It belongs to the property owners, excluding some people from that public property is a much smaller aggression than allowing every man woman and child to enter land that belongs to us, as well as force us to pay for their welfare healthcare schooling

have you read our watched any of the stuff in this post? you should.
>>135447496

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>>135446784
What's the problem with degeneracy ?
Allowing all kind of degeneracy in ancapistan would father social darwinism and provoke the death of hundreds of thousands of unfit people, beginning with niggers

>>135452008
adding more degenerates does not help remove degenerates.

>>135449330
Most overused and annoying meme in these threads. I can tolerate pretty much anything, but it still makes me cringe every time.

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Could someone explain the difference between libertarian right and libertarian left to me please?

>>135451811
okay, so liberty is the ability to engage in any life project you might have within your reach without violent interference from other people.

Liberty is important because without it the conflict between humans is perpetual, liberty is important because a lack of liberty is the recognition that violence is an acceptable method to obtain our goals, so negating liberty ultimately leads to negating civilization.

>>135451683
Free trade and Market-based economies are almost universally accepted by economists for powerful reasons. In economics, strength is flexibility. The nation has to be able to accommodate people's changing demands. The best way to do this is more specialization. Protectionism does precisely the opposite; leading to capital outflows and overpriced goods.

>>135452245
At its core, the conflict between libertarian left and right is the belief (or lack of belief) in egalitarianism.

>>135451975
>what is common property.

>>135452078
It does. It would reduce the nigger population by 4 or 5 times in one generation

>>135451811
Its important to make moral choices because the fate of humanity depends on it. Do you want to live in a world of decay and sadness? Making the right choices gets the right results. It should be obvious why it is important to be moral.

>>135452245
libertarian right are more indivualistic and care about property rights

>>135452467
illegitimate land funded by state coercion.

>>135452245
is there a libertarian left? Like are you talking about a government thats fiscally left and socially right or something?

>>135452430
I'm in favor of allowing the most degeneracy possible in ancapistan because I want to see niggers starving and homosexuals dying of aids before my window, does it make me a left wing libertarian ?

>>135452622
Libertarian left is from liberals in less extreme cases and ((((noam jewsky))) in the most extreme

>>135451832
equal oppritunity is unfair, you get what you put in no matter where you start. you sound like a marxist, talking about "fairness" wanting a fucking handout. Get a job

>>135452595
Commons were a major part of peasant society before the industrial revolution caused coercive land enclosure. Your ideas are backward.

>>135452755
So does Chomsky think that people can really own the means of production like the meme says? And how is this even libertarian? Obviously a strong government is necessary if you hold these views.

>>135451709
>Democracy and the state is what is removing this culture.
Only because when 2 cultures co exist one will eventually out breed the other, and it will disappear, we need a state that keeps out those that aren't of our people, the state didn't replace church, overtime religion started to die and then state had to fill the role of charity. We need a state that instills these nationalist values so that the people don't have to.

>>135452682
Would you force people to assume the costs of said degeneracy of force them to live among degenerates?

If the answer is no, then you're a right libertarian.

Like, I have a problem with child prostitution, and therefore I don't live in Nepal, I don't want to bomb them, I want to convince them, but ultimately what I really want is to completely dissociate from them, not have to support their externalities and not have to see with my own eyes this degeneracy.

Same goes with anarcho capitalism, the only ideology that would actually allow me to make sure cities of degenerates become as "alien" as Nepal is to me currently.

>>135452755
How can a Palestinian hate Noam Chomsky? He practically licks the PLO's butthole.

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A hereditary oligarchy would be the superior system. That most of us wouldn't have to worry about political issues, as it would be out of our control. I would however still leave the economic system as being capitalistic.

>>135452873
>equal opportunity is unfair
>the ability to voluntarily choose what you want is unfair
>marxist
wew lad
Id rather have that than forced equal outcome, like a some commie state.

>>135452271
>okay, so liberty is the ability to engage in any life project you might have within your reach without violent interference from other people.
Alright this answers my first question, but how do you define violent interference?
>Liberty is important because without it the conflict between humans is perpetual, liberty is important because a lack of liberty is the recognition that violence is an acceptable method to obtain our goals, so negating liberty ultimately leads to negating civilization.
Okay so you consider liberty to be the key to ending perpetual conflict between humans and those that do not recognize this essentially are saying that violent interference is acceptable. Even though you did not mention morality in this post you did in your last one so I will try to understand what you said in a moral way. If I understand you correctly you are saying that violent interference is both immoral and impractical because you recognize violence as unacceptable/immoral and because conflict between humans is not practical for a functioning civilization.

As I said above, can you define violent interference? And also can you explain why it is immoral to be violent towards others? I'll leave the questions about it being practical aside because as I said I'm interested in why people support libertarianism in principle not for practical reasons.

>>135452495
I don't think you understood me correctly. I wasn't asking why it is important for people to make moral choices. I am asking why you believe there is such a thing as making moral choices? Why do you think there is a moral and immoral way to behave?

>>135453044
Ofc not, a person should have the right to ban anyone from his property (including entreprise) on any criteria. You should be able to make a sign "Jews and niggers that enter this area will be shot dead" etc
Actually I'm social conservative in my own life but degeneracy in ancapistan wouldn't bother me as it would father many deaths

>>135453323
>the ability to voluntarily choose what you want is unfair
you don't just choose, you want to force others to chip in or get locked up or killed.

>>135452998
Coexistance of culture is countered in anarcho capitalism through segregation and mantained through private property and contracts.

Think about it, give it a day of thought, think what would happen if we got rid of the state.

People would need security and rules, therefore they would start going to private cities that provided this. Eventually the market would offer niche rules such as ethnically based communities or culture/religious based ones, this would lead to some communities being prosperous, people wanting to economically migrate to them, but this time these communities will have a way to prevent this economical migration to destroy them from within, and that is contracts.

People will be forced to accept said contracts if they want a "piece of the cake" from the prosperous communities. And these contracts will make them renounce to any belief they held that was against the culture of the community.

They will be physically removed if they break these contracts.

>>135452993
Basically this is what jewsky believes:
step 1: revolt
step 2: ??????????
step 3: no land no money no private stuff, everyone shares everything and is happy

>>135453160
che guevara also liked palestine, and so do all the liberals in the us. They can fuck off i don't care if they support us

>>135448246
This post gave me stage IV cancer.

>>135453380
>Why do you think there is a moral and immoral way to behave?

It's consequentialism, "karma" if you will. You make good choices you get good results. If you work and stay healthy you and your family prosper. if you're a faggot and smoke drugs and suck dicks you get sick, infect other people and die.

it has nothing to do with religion it is just natural law.

>>135452271
Libertarian left is more or less socialism and communism in its ideal effect. I see it as pure equality vs equal oppurtunity. The believes total equality is needed, the right believes that equal oppurtunity is needed.

>>135454067
Thats only centrist left libertarian

>>135452622
>>135454067
Sorry, responded to the wrong post. To clarify more, as a true libertarian I believe that total equality is forced equality and that it destroys competition and therefore effectiveness

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>>135446784
what do you think about the freidman?

>>135453995
If I understand you correctly you are saying that people in a society value certain behaviors over others so that means there are certain behaviors which are more practical for you to make if you want to have beneficial results for yourself in the future. I completely agree with this but I do not see how this has anything to do with morality.

Everyone knows that there are certain behaviors you have to carry out if you want to succeed in society. However, you are claiming that since society values them that means that they are moral behaviors and that people ought to carry out those behaviors too so they can be successful. However, how you make the leap from "society says its good" to "you ought to do it" has not been explained.

Libertarians work in banks?

>>135455881
you understand correctly, and it has everything to do with morality. Are you sure you understand the concept of right and wrong?

You seem like someone who actually cares to know. If you're willing to take the trip watch this. its long as hell but it explains clearly morality, right and wrong, natural law, and has a lot to do with libertarianism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEemKcy-4E

I'm not just dismissing you if you have any questions keep at it.

>>135450044
>fascism prizes real freedom, the freedom to do what the state tells you is right
ftfy

>>135450934
>"According to rumor, Mussolini was afraid of Evola's magical powers"
Fascist mysticism is /x/-tier retardation. Fuck off
>>>/x/

>>135452245
Property rights

>>135456596
Or libertarians cant work in a bank?

>>135456769
>9 hour longer video
Can tell me about the major relevant points in the video so we can discuss it in a timely manner. I'm not dismissing the video without watching it I just think it would be more appropriate for you to tell me about it before I watch so that we can carry on with the discussion. As I said in my last post I'm interested to know why you are connecting the practical to the moral. I think I should clarify one more thing. When I say "the practical" I mean successfully achieving that which one deems valuable. It seems like what you deem valuable is in line with what society deems valuable so you are fine with performing the necessary behaviors that would help you achieve that in your given society.

>Are you sure you understand the concept of right and wrong?
Again, I'd like you to tell me the relevant points in the video that you think would help me understand your position more. It seems like you are claiming that what society (and you) deem valuable are actually/objectively valuable and not just your opinion. From this it seems like you say that the behaviors which will help you achieve what is valuable are good or morally right behaviors and that behaviors which hurt your chances of achieving what is valuable are bad or morally wrong behaviors. If this is correct then I would need you to justify/explain why what you deem valuable is actually valuable and not just your opinion. I'm saying that because it appears like you are basing right and wrong off your opinion of what is desirable and not (since you haven't explained why it is anything more than your opinion yet).

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>>135458457
the "practical" and "moral" are the same thing. they were never seperate, but you must understand what truly is practical.

>>135459902
>>135459925
This doesn't really help with the questions I have. I'd appreciate if you could respond to the specific things I said.

>>135460223
Morality has nothing to do with mysticism or religion. Moral actions have only positive consequences. Not just For you but for everyone effected by your actions. I can't encapsulate it much more than that.

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>>135451316
Marry me

With a NAP in place would I be held accountable if I killed some niggers that commited a crime prior to the existance of the NAP, even if I have evidence? I caught a pack of them stealing bikes from my neighborhood on my secruity cams 2weeks back. Today, the police tacked down some of them, but all the niggers did was return the bikes with a slap on the wrist. Fucking tired of people giving these monkeys a pass, it's not the first time they've done this.

Does the NAP work retroactively for past crimes committed?