Taxation is Theft

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>>135178058
Adam Kokesh, please go.

SAGE

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>>135178058
agreed- spread the good word

>>135178705
that doesn't answer the question, though. Isn't taxation theft, and therefore immoral?

>>135181113
who give fuck me money me need. without who build airport road and welfare shut the fuck

>>135181113
doesn't work on solipsists though, they do not believe in right and wrong

>>135181113
Theft is not immoral when the strong take it from the weak.

If people collectively consent to pay taxes; then the authority empowered by that consent has a duty to ensure that the taxpayers are meeting their obligations.

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>>135181551
Then I suppose a nigger stealing your purse is morally justified, kraut

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>>135181551

>>135181621
>collectively consent
what the heck does that mean? if enough people gang up and decide to do abuse a victim, it then counts as consent? can you also rape somebody and get away with it if enough people agree with you? I mean I don't recall ever voluntarily signing an agreement to pay taxes. I am forced to do so by the government.

Are you one of those people who suggest simply being born puts you under a social contract in which you have no say one way or another? Do you not see how this goes against the whole concept of consent?

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>>135181113
Nigger, you just don't get it yet, do you? Lolbertarianism is a pipe dream, delusional utopian Jewish made scam.

it depends. If they spend the taxed money on common benefit (police, firefighter, military, roads, bridges...) then its ok. when they give it to parasites (who never did nor will work) then it is theft. Of course all the money spend has to be proven that it was spend efficiently for best value/price.
welfare/not taxes is theft.

Privatize wildfires now!

>>135182660
>>135182660
You still didn't answer the question. Is it theft or not?

>>135182818
But I didn't consent to taxation. It can be ok in a pragmatic sense, but in a moral sense it isn't

>>135183055
#notall.
Not all taxes are theft. Some of the tax money are spent on things that dont serve the interest of the taxed. that portion is theft.

>>135183229
see >>135183195

>>135183195
in elementary school people (parents) voted on common expenses, then we all had to pay money in. The rich parents said yes, lets buy everything to the kids, our family is like "is it really necessary?" but were voted down and pay up. Is this how you feel?

>>135178058
It can be. Or alternatively, it can be fee for service in protection private property. To appreciate what I'm saying you must first ask yourself, "how commie am I?" So? Does a free helicopter sound appealing?

>>135178058
>Guy breaks into your basement and forces you to give him your pc
>Government builds roads using money taken from the same people who use the roads
>Literally the same thing

>>135182474
What do you think that the Constitution was about? It gave Congress the power to levy taxes.

If you don't like; go somewhere where Congress has no jurisdiction and renounce your American citizenship(assuming that you're American).

You got a social security number? You file a form 1040?

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Taxation is theft when it is directed against ordinary working class and middle class people with salaries.

Taxation is redistribution when it is aimed landlords, bankers, corporate executives, and oligarchs who have perverted the legal system into a system of theft against the common man.

>>135183055
>getting into an argument over semantics

By living in a society, you consent to abide by their rules, laws, regulations and taxes. If you don't like it, you can leave. No one is forcing you to stay.

It may be theft, it may not. That's a stupid philosophical debate that solves absolutely nothing. I used to give a shit like you. I used to be a faggoty libertarian like you. Then i looked at the white genocide happening, and i realized i don't give a shit about "muh taxes" or money in general when my people risk being eradicated from the face of the Earth.

Get your fucking priorities straight and stop arguing over semantics.

>>135183747
that is why libertarianism is so futile.

>>135182916
ironically enough, privatization would solve wildfires. all you have to do is privatize the forests.

if somebody owns a forest, then he'll do his best to make sure it doesn't burn down. A logger for example would lose a precious resource of all his trees burned down. Wildfires are only an issue because they mostly happen in public land, which just like all things government sucks at administrating.

I think people should choose to pay for taxes. Those who choose not to should have no right to use roads or any public facilities. You walk everywhere and if you need to piss you do it on the side walk like the animal you are. Easy.

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>>135183920
Thorn in our sides. I feel sympathy for them, as most alt-righters were at one time Lolbertarians. But still, i get a headache just listening to them.

>>135183615
If a guy robs you at gunpoint but then gives the money to charity, is it no longer robbery? Is stealing from the rich to give to the poor no longer theft, because those poor guys really need it? If a guy breaks into your house and steals your furniture, but leaves behind a pair of shoes, is it no longer theft because he gave you got something in return? Saying theft no longer qualifies as so depending on what the forfeited goods are used for doesn't stack up. You still don't have consent, which is the key part.

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>>135184422
totes 4got there were no road builders before gov!

It's a contractual arrangement; you file a form 1040, you have volunteered to pay the income tax and the job of the IRS is to ensure that you don't dodge your commitments.

Excessive taxation is evil.

>>135184917
no moral solipsism is however

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>>135178705
fpbp

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>>135178058

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Yup, taxes are theft.

>>135184806
There literally wasn't you intellectual dead end.

>inb4 trampling grass is building a road
>inb4 horses are road builders.

fucking retards go back to plebbit.

>>135184806
There weren't interstates and most rural retards didn't have electricity until FDR used federal programs to give it to them.

>>135183669
does being born qualify as consent? if a cell-phone company automatically signs you up for a lifelong contract without asking, but gives you the option of paying a $10,000 op-out fee, is it consensual? like you said, you can always opt-out later, right? and it gives you a service, whether you want it or not.

you are giving special treatment to the government here. in no other case could these scenarios count as fair and just, but government for some reason gets a free ride and have people defending it. whether or not it's a good deal is irrelevant -- all definitions still put it out as a criminal and immoral act.

>>135178058
What is and is not theft is defined by the legal authority, i.e. the state.

>>135185367
Wow. Um, I don't usually say this, but you should really try reading a history book someday.

>>135185408
Better, but still stupid. Presumably there was some good resource-based reason why the rural areas weren't electrified. Instead of shifting resources to make everywhere equal, we should have retained our resources in their most productive configuration to maximize the capital base for future economic growth.

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>>135178058
its not justified and is immoral

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw99TOiFzaY

>>135185411
You aren't understanding because you're a moralfag. Morality isn't real. Law is real. Theft is a legal term and it is declared criminal by law. It is not "immoral," because morality is a fiction.

>>135185782
Morality is the fruit and foundation of trade. In the long-term, it is profitable to be moral. Thus we see the most civilized nations are the most capitalistic, and vice versa.

>>135185411
I am trying to explain how the system works, as I understand it; not justify it. Income tax, in America, is voluntary, in that you volunteer to pay it; and the IRS ensures that this voluntary tax is paid. It wouldn't be Constitutional otherwise.

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>>135185367
http://www.megaliths.org/browse/category/27
have a gander at some roads that put academias modern timeline in the dumpster, if we were just monkeys then, where were the govs that built these roads?! those monkeys had heavy carts

>>135185544
does the government decide morals? so if it's illegal it is also immoral, and vice-versa? religion, personal convictions, common sense, and personal philosophy mean nothing, and right or wrong is purely decided government officials and the court system?

that's an awfully bleak philosophy to follow. Even on this board, I find most people have their own higher set of principles which doesn't rely upon figures out authority. For example, is feminism correct and moral because it is pushed by the government? most would disagree.

>>135178058
Since certain services such as police, fire fighters, EMTs, and public education require trained individuals why not allow tax-payers to decide where their money goes?

Instead of politicians doling it out to their family foundation for "humanitarian aid" John Q Public could do his taxes every year, see how much is owed on federal and state level, then decide which programs get how much of the total amount of taxes owed.

Say you make $50,000, end up owing $12,000 to the federal gubbamin. Instead of just sending them a check (like we currently do) I propose every tax payer be granted the agency to determine where that money goes.

Hippies get to fund the EPA
Warhawks get to fund the Military
Autists get to fund the Library of Congress

>>135185701
Perhaps you should google the definition of a government and then tell me at what point in history has anyone made a road without direction from said government, whether tribal leader or democratic president. You disgrace to AnCap.

>>135184917
>avoiding imprisonment or worse is voluntary

>>135186093
>whatever entity builds roads is defined as the government
>therefore, in an ancap society without government, there would be no roads
>QED

I feel like we've reached some sort anti-ancap road building meme singularity here.

>>135185908
No, morality is a meaningless term. Law facilitates trade. And law defines what is and is not theft.

>>135181113
It's not theft when done properly.

If a county board is doing a good job they'll be awarding snow-plowing/school bus/trash collection contracts to the company that offers the services at the lowest price. If that company underbids and the county board gets burnt they'll have to suck it up and wait for the next vote or hold an emergency session to offer another contract to a more competent business.

In some cases it is a bigger cost saving to the tax power to have a municipality provide a service.

The idea that people working a 9-5 will go out and buy a bunch of tar at Home Depot to pave their pot-hole ridden road has never made much sense to me. When electing public officials you are essentially hiring somebody for a job to make sure shit is getting paved and maintained, trash is getting collected, and the local school isn't falling apart.

>>135186061
Turning that into a publicity contest though would be a shitstorm

good idea but people are retarded and won't know who else is putting their money where and who needs it most

>>135186055
Isn't that how the system works already?

>>135186407
>thinking it's possible to not have a government

are you actually retarded?
even in shitty ideologies were the primary idea is to have no government you always have some power hungry cunts enforcing not having a government. You're a delusional retard if you think that's not what will happen.

>>135186055
>does the government decide morals?
No. Morals aren't real. Government decides law, which is real. Law is a system of threats of violence against anyone within the domain of the authority who breaks the laws set forth by the authority. An action cannot be moral or immoral. But it can be legal or illegal. The problem comes from people abstracting the concept of law and then pretending it is a universal moral system.

>>135178058

Why do Ancaps and Lolbergs refuse to understand how the concept of credit based currency?

Taxation is as voluntary as any other capitalist contract. Taxation is as voluntary as insurance.

The government has no resources but has to perform public services like border security and running courts to resolve property disputes.

So how does it get the resources without without drafting by force?

By doing on a credit basis and creating a market based system for those credits.

The central government authorizes the printing of an IOU credit that always the holder of the notes/currency to surrender those IOUs come tax day rather than have give us real resource on that day like the prior feudal economy did with physical harvests which is logistical nightmare for advanced economy.

As a result of this deal, private contractors and the people voluntarily exchange real goods and services to the government for those IOU credits directly with government and via subcontractors.

The result is a public sector which everyone benefits from via courts, common army, and other public goods.

At the ends of year, the government sends out a invoice or tax bill like every other business, except to everyone because everyone benefits from public goods.

As result, everyone accept working for the IOUs i.e. common currency through the market to get enough of those IOU so that they don't have to surrender real and services to the government directly and by force because they owe a certain amount for the benefit of public goods they receive.

There is no force involved here...it is a simple loan for credit, contract for services, redemption of credits contract. Many Many private business do the same with various forms of firm shares and credits.

>>135186407
I unironically want to read your (you or the other AnCaps) explanations about roads without a government.

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>>135187092
ever been on a fuckin toll road sunny?

>>135187092
employers would build roads for their employees, and business would build roads for customers to access. it's not difficult to understand, and has happened in the past.

>>135187533
build a road, charge a fee for use- BAM no governement needed but money was still exchanged- only this time by consent and not force

>>135185411
If you had a kid and wanted to see that they were educated here are your options assuming you make $55K a year at a job that requires you to be there from 8A-6P with a 40 minute commute.
Hard mode: Single Parent
1) Home school; will you be able to stay up and focus to make sure your kid is getting night schooled in between your time at the office?

2) Hire a tutor: Tutor costs $40K a year. Lives with you, provides their own meals and transportation, is willing to look after your kid. This leaves you with $15K a year to buy clothing, gas, housing, food, and an internet connection to post on a mongolian watercolor board.

3) You get 8 neighbors together, each has a kid or two of their own, and you all chip in $5K to hire the same tutor from scenario 2. The tutor is fine with looking after that many kids and agrees to work for $40K/year to tutor 10 children. You just saved $35,000 dollars.

>>135186928
>Taxation is as voluntary as any other capitalist contract. Taxation is as voluntary as insurance.
Did I provide the government with permission to take my money? No, so its not voluntary.

Take your doublethink somewhere else.

It doesnt matter what the money is spent on, if theyre taken against a persons will - it is by defenition theft. There is no way to argue against this, you can try, but youre retarded and wrong.

>>135186055
In representative democracies like much of the industrialized world "the people" make up the government and decide who represents them and has executive power. Therefore citizenry decide moral laws via proxy.

>>135178058
Taxation is part of the social contract you dullard.
If you don't agree with the taxes levied against you, leave the country.

>>135182474
Do you have a job or own land? Then you consented to pay taxes.

>>135187533
sorry that sounded hostile, when you wanted an unironic explanation. my bad

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>>135178058
Why don't you just fight off the tax collectors then, ancap boy?

>>135186864
...that or suddenly the CIA would make Snookie their spokeswoman.

In all honesty though I find that if you provide people with responsibility the majority of them take it seriously and do some research into the subject.
Of course the trolls would pump bilions into the post office or some shit.

>>135181113
States have legitimacy to acquire money in so far as they are the institutions that represents and protects the whole

>>135187836
Dude, can you read you provide the government with permission when agreed to use the currency within the "jurisdiction therefore." If you don't like then move...love or leave it.

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>>135187843
b-but who is to argue against such a well put together ideology

>>135178058

How is government justified while it is literalky mafia, literally an enslavement system ?!

>>135188542
It is literally neither of those things.
And yes, I do think the government can shoot you if you don't pay your taxes. You deserve to be shot if you're that much of a fag.

>>135187843
No it is not. You are like a nigger trying to say he has the right to re-use store coupons rather than hand them to the cashier....

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>>135188692
how is that anything alike

>>135188664
You disgusting tax loving commie, its because of thralls like you that society is so fucked. You sicken me.

>>135188851
The coupon belongs to the store.

Money belongs to the government. They let us borrow it. We have to give some of it back from time to time. That is the deal. If you don't like it you are free to leave.

>>135188664
that's not forced at all.... where is your "i <3 my daddy the gov" hat

>>135189106
the federal reserve is not apart of the government... have you have read about it??

>>135189109
By living in the country you tacitly agree to be shot if you're a big enough burden to the state.
You can leave if you don't like it, thereby it's not slavery.
>>135188939
Neat, leave.

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and obama stole the most!

>governments can only collect taxes towards the purposes the individuals agree to put the money towards
>suddenly a true and personally accountable democracy is born
>suddenly all kike activity is gassed
>liberals suddenly cannot spend other people's money, and if they want to feed porchapes they have to pay for it themselves
>if people don't want to pay for roads, there won't be roads
>people get what they pay for and pay for what they use

Oy vey annudah shoah. You have no say in what your taxes are used for, goyim, now hand it over. What do you mean you don't want to pay 10,000 dollars for nigger gibs? OYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

>>135189106
Disgusting slave mentality. Government cuck. Have you no dignity left in you, wretched miserable peon of a man.

>>135189595
Hey dude, your'e free to start your own country with a barter economy if you'd like.
You can trade gold for an island and live with likeminded ancap retards.

>>135189249
You wouldnt shoot anyone, its clear by your slave mentality. Youre a tax loving subserviant beta.

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>>135189106
>money belongs to the government

>>135189249
so at birth i consented to be shot if burdensome? and where shall i go exactly that is free of this method of theft? i do like to believe in the continual evolution of humanity- both physically and mentally, so hopefully our race will get there someday>>135189816
i'm comin

>>135178058
>taxed when earning income
>taxed when spending income
>Tax on property
>estate taxed on death
>inflation
>quantitative easing

When did you realize that you are being sucked dry to help non-white retards live life? The fact that no one opposes any of this shit in main stream politics is telling.

One day people will look back on this shit with horror.

>>135189920
not even in the US. gotta love the retards that can't read though

>>135189850
>implying police/soldiers/gangbangers/serial killers etc don't pay taxes
I don't even get why you're so upset, you obviously don't have a job.
>>135189930
Yep, your parents drove on a road paid for by tax payers. The hospital likely recieves subsidies from tax payers. From birth, and before birth you owe the state. That's the reality of it.
But since you're not a slave, you're free to start your own ancap country. No one is stopping you but yourself. Just make sure you don't get in our way after you leave, or we'll shoot you.

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>>135189249
>You can leave if you don't like it, thereby it's not slavery.
is coercion not theft now? if you are given a bad choice at gunpoint, is it now justified because you technically have a choice to opt out? No, it's still immoral.

Anyway, if you guys have trouble following the text arguments, I suggest you watch the video I made in the OP instead. It summarizes the arguments concisely and approachably.

>>135190079
thats why I say lower government spending 99%

>>135190370
You're not being held at gun point you drama queen.
If you had a good sum of precious metals you could trade that and start your own nation. You're also free to move anywhere you'd like to join their community.
Since you have not done so, you follow our laws and taxes are part of that contract.

>>135190342
yes i shall laugh as i feel the force bleed as millions are torn from life, it tickles my sense of righteousness, even from my cozy remote island getaway.

>>135188542
The only enslavement I see is performed by wage earners who don't live off the grid.

>>135190636
so i could start my own nation on land, as long as that land isn't already claimed by a gov... solid and enduring master plan, luckily there is more land outside of the ice wall

>>135189595
How have all the previous AnCap societies turned out?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10

>>135189920
I wouldn't say it "belongs" to the government, but the treasury backs bills and bonds.

>>135190588
Soon they will be forced to.

I think businesses have an incentive to adopt cryptocurrencies just as much as the private individual. Can't be taxed, can't be taken, etc. Still need a few years to work out the kinks but soon they will have change their big spending habits when whitey stops using fiat bucks.

>>135190079
>"but we need le stairz XDDD"
Bootlickers here would rather the government treat them like children than be responsible for their own lives

>>135188851
Because, a tax bill is the government asking for it's self issued IOUs back just like a store asking it's self issued coupons/store credit back. It is not that hard to understand that money doesn't exist in the Austrian sense (and never has) but only as a credit in the modern world.

>>135190342
Im upset because i have a sense of whats right and whats wrong, and i cant stand squirming little maggots like yourself who are too cowardly to admit the truth about taxation. Youre afraid of the truth and in times like these, when courage is in demand, its disgusting behaviour to watch. Be a man and stand up for truth.

>>135190841
Bitching about being a loser doesn't strike me as a very capitalist mentality.
Do something about it if you don't like it.

>>135190914
ah vice, so reputable. plus no one is saying the species is even smart enough to attempt this yet. most of the planet is too stupid to understand any existence without some massive invisible force watching over them
(uncle sam)

>>135190370
>is coercion not theft now?
No, it's coercion.

Feel free to run for office and change how taxes are levied.

The problem with tax is that it makes politicians lazy so they don't have to think of ways to fund government activity without resorting to taxation.

>don't own land
>have to pay the landlord
>its rent and no one should complain about it

>don't own land
>have to pay the sovereign
>reeeee taxation is theft

Libertarianism is incoherent because property, which they defend, is also theft.

>>135191110
>wants desperately to weasel out of his responsibilities to his nation but won't create his own nation or leave the nation that's "robbing" him
>calls me a coward for giving "Caesar his due" and obeying the law
Pot calling the kettle black there don't you think?

>>135190370
fuck off
there are dozens of jobs for each head
100s if regualtions removed
got it commmy?
you are not a capitalist

>>135191018
i'll repeat, the federal reserve is, keyword up next, NOT connected to the US government.
>the federal reserve is, keyword up next, NOT connected to the US government
what does the gov do again? (not what does it contract out like roads, schools, welfare)

>>135189920
Yes. It is called currency monopoly on the payment of taxes as per the constitution. Basic history lessen. Under the Articles of Confederation, state couldn't agree on spending taxes to a central government so the British and French were counting on the Confederation to break apart but then Ben Franklin and Hamilton decided that we need a Union and Federated govern to collect the taxes and provide for a common defense with the States infighting.

Have you never read the Hamilton's; "Report on Public Credit?

It the founding document of the American System of capitalism.

>>135191136
i forgot there is an infinite source of land unclaimed by governments!!!

>>135191283
>Libertarianism is incoherent because property, which they defend, is also theft.
To say you must presuppose property rights.

>>135191110
I happen to sleep soundly at night knowing if a fire starts in my building my taxes are going towards a fire dept who will put it out and a Ambulance corp that will hurry me to a local hospital.

Do I agree with all government spending? No.
Do I think most people are taxed too much? Yes.
Do I want to be stopped every 25 feet to pay a toll for walking through somebody's private property? Absolutely not.

>>135190079

Fun fact. The original income tax was something like 2%, and only for the duration of a war to fund that war.

"Give them an inch, they take a mile."

Govt just kept taking taking taking and no one stopped them. Where is middle class america going? Where is the money going? Kikes.

Remove all gibs. Gas the budget, tax wars now. Taxation IS theft and that's why the IRS goes after anyone who questions them. The current US government is nothing but a cartel running a damned racket.

Fun fact: the rich don't pay taxes, they creatively legally dodge it. The poor don't pay taxes. All this excess and kikery is off the backs of working class. YOU.

>>135191467
This is so infantile.
So can I buy currency from the Federal Reserve?
Of course not, only the US Gov gets to do that.

>>135191557
lurk more

>>135191260
The problem with taxation is that is theft. You dont accept theft in your normal day to day life, but when its a bunch of people gathering in a specific building, calling themselves politicians, YES its fine. So weak, so immoral, so disgusting.

>>135191557
So your problem is smarter people beat you to the punch....and you're still not doing anything to change it...how are you a capitalist at all?
"It's not fair that WalMart took all my business, boohoo someone help it's not fair"
Life isn't fair.

>>135191751
Feel free to pay for the entire US military. I would much prefer not to.

>>135191751
>it's been proven that tax is not theft at least 10 times in this thread
>still using that as a lynch pin
Why don't you stick Stefan Molyneux's dick a little further up your ass kiddo.

>>135191621
>buy currency from the federal reserve
hi, hello sir, have you heard of inflation?printing more money is not buying anything. however there is a law the gov has made mandating acceptance of this legal tender, so there's that
anything seem the least bit odd to you about the entire setup?

>>135191467
fed is just a government agency

retard

>>135191342
>wont create a nation

Wtf. Are you serious? Do you think this is some fucking Civsim were playing here?

>>135192064
The FED is a private bank. It's not owned by the government.

>>135192006
NOD ON ACUMEN!!!!!!

>>135191584
Same story in Canada. Income tax for the war.

>>135191283
Property isn't theft is the use of the force on bodies against their will to physically remove them from an arbitrary claim of property which violates the NAP.

Fascists don't believe in the non-existent NAP so we have no problems because the need for hierarchy and order overrule the desires an individual.

The only position that follows the NAP is AnComs who are insane.

>>135192064
The Federal Reserve is not a government agency, it's a private bank that our tax dollars fund.

It's pretty much everything wrong with the system.

>>135192078
What's the matter, too lazy to start a country?

saging responses

>>135191796
i don't see how me being born in 94 relates to any gov being smarter? they claimed the lands well before i was born... in more concerned with the dire lack of consciousness in our species for the time being, that is my "doing something" figuring out how to cure retards
also do you know that huge corps like walmart pay to have laws made with certifications that smaller businesses cannot afford? there's a bit of a link between the corporations and lawmakers my friend, and it is wonky

>>135178058
I tend to agree.

The government took over 3K from me last financial year, and I only got under $300 back.

>>135185131
Are you too retarded to understand? In completely free marked nation, niggers would not survive. No welfare, they will need to study to even compete with others, it is necessary the IQ question here?

>>135192054
It's a service.
Sure it's a corrupt organization.
Who cares, that's the system.
Change if it bothers you so much, or start your own country, or move.
>>135192078
Other people have managed it, there's plenty of cultist kiddos to help you out.

>>135192064
It's truer to say that the Federal Reserve is the government and the political parties dance to their tune.

>>135192064
ahahaha ahahahaha >>135192124
>>135192224

>>135192006
Do you think stealing is wrong?

>want to shitpost with new flags
>can't

>>135192352
>huge corps like walmart pay to have laws made with certifications that smaller businesses cannot afford?
Capitalism, don't like it? Try Venezuela.

>>135192498
Depends on who you're stealing from and why.
Also yes, you should be shot.

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>>135178058
>be AnCap me
>hate taxation and gubbaminz
>start own country
>hire mercenary company to take over Floridian peninsula
>mercs want to get paid
>have no money, wut do?
>send mercs out to collect money from everyone living on "my property"
tfw you become what you sought to destroy

>>135192395
maybe look up from your dick and pathetic lifespan long enough to see the fucking wall we are approaching before we hit it?

>>135192558
So thats a yes. You disgust me you spineless thieving parasite.

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Get this your local bridge collapses and now it takes 1 hour to get to work when it should take 15 minutes. Guess what money is used to repair it

>>135178058
If you stay in society, you consent implicitly to have a part of your production (income now but it used to be anything like food,commodities or materials) taken to take care of common services, which you also benefit.

If you do not consent to this, you need to remove yourself from society to remain ''morally correct''. Not doing so and not paying taxes would mean you are taking something that you didnt pay for. That's theft.
>not taking into account the (((banks))) abilities to create infinite amount of money because that's immoral in itself
>for the sake of the argument, I'm implying we have a self regulating currency

>>135192488
What are you laughing at?

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>>135192392
>completely free marked nation
What did the ape mean by this?

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youtube yaron brook

thank me later

>>135192824
What country are you living in right now? Take off your LARP flag.

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>>135192893
implicit consent you say?! neato! what other terms can we make mean their opposite??

>>135192352
>in more concerned with the dire lack of consciousness in our species for the time being

We are genetically identical to the humans of pre-civilized tribes, only we now have the internet and are more connected and concious then ever. The major issue we are facing is (((those))) who control and edit facts and information before releasing it to the masses.

>>135191467
You are semi-correct. The Federal Reserve is the public-private partnership based somewhat on the EU model where the central Bank is "Independent" controlled by private interest which the State Contract for the use of the currency.

However, the United States has a much more open ended contract with says that the Fed has to provide enough funds to the "Open Market" to force the buying of all Federal Bond auctions. By law, Treasury Bond Auction can never fail so there is no Bond Market in the Austrian which why Peter Schiff types are always wrong in predicting the Bond collapse that never happens. They don't understand that there is "NO FEDERAL BOND MARKET" because the price is manipulated until they are cleared.

However, I agree that this so-called "Fed Independence" is corruption and needs to end. We must go full Hilter and Nationalize the Federal Reserve and Hang the Kike Banksters.

>>135192824
Not an argument :)
>>135192823
You're the one worried about it, convince other people or don't. I don't care.

the fed is just a government agency

>>135193097
this shadow gov could've rewritten history, how do we know we're the first to rise? what of our current civ will be left in 50 million years when a new form of life makes their own internet?
megaliths.org <check out the academia bashing history my guy

>>135178058

I mean they keep the roads paved and they catch thieves and violent thugs in my hometown. Also, federal student aid is rather helpful.

>>135192824
how are tax-payers parasites? If anything they are the host.

Now go outside and enjoy what's left of your summer vacation, you can tell your teacher about Atlas Shrugged when you hand in your book report.

>>135193149
lol thanks bud, i admire your adamant dedication to being a soulless sack of shit

>>135192791
Yes, somebody gets it. We already had Ancap societies and they evolved into the Nation-States which evolved into Federated Social Democracies.

Libertarians are baby's first autistic theory of statecraft and then you grow up.

>>135193437
Tell us what the wall is.

>>135193437
If you don't take action you're just as much of a sack as shit as me. In fact, you'd be worse since I legitimately don't care but you...you see what you consider to be a major issue and will do nothing to change it, a form of cuckoldry if you ask me.

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objectivists and those for unregualted capitalism are real americans

democracy is communism

usa is a contrituionally restricted propertarian republic!!

1800s no welfare n regulations and gov spending 1% of GDP and ended slavery and child labor!! 50% growth a year and usa no1
socialism of 1900s was war and no growth!!

>>135193301
Radio-carbon dating.
For now I'm basing opinion on known fact, there could have been other civilizations prior.

What is most surprising is the similarities between the Sumerian myth of Adamu and Enki and the garden of Eden in El/Yahweh mythology

>>135193775
how do you know i do nothing friend? are you clairvoyant? i am actively putting together many things? any more baseless personal attacks to distract from your deadly narcissism? oh wait narcissism is the meaning of life is for ya

So many commies in disguise here. Only a disgusting socialist could defend taxation with such fervor.

>>135185718
>I want you to have sex with me
>No
>Fine. Please leave my house
>Okay

>I want you to work for me
>no
>Fine. Please leave my office
>Okay

>I want you to pay for these goods.
>no.
>Fine. Please leave these items here and leave.
>Okay.

>I want you to pay these taxes for your labor in exchange for the governments protection and the right to work within our land
>No.
>Fine. Please leave for another country, or don't work if you so choose.
>HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED!!1!

>>135192224
No Idiots. They create the currency like any other bank by typing credits into databank ledger thus creating reserve which are then deposited.

Reserves create deposits ask any one who has worked for a Bank which refutes all Austrian Economics which is entirely backwards with exogenous money creation when modern money is entirely endogenous which why the Japanese are always facing higher deflation rather than inflation everytime they increase their massive National Debt exactly opposite of the Libertardian theory predicts because they have the process of money creation backwards.

I'm tired of arguing with you idiots because you clearly don't understand Banking.

>>135193899
radio-carbon dating is notoriously fallible, read up on its accuracy. i'm sure that same site has all the links to what you would deem Real Science. they are fun to look at regardless of age!!

>>135194387
/thread

>>135181551
So all the cases of niggers raping and pillaging farms in South Africa is okay because might = right ?

the best part of this thread is that in the end OP cant stop paying taxes.

>>135194452
much like government and all forms of human invention, there are many ways to do banking

>>135194312
>are you clairvoyant?
Nope, it's what Sherlock Holmes would call inductive reasoning.
You're on /pol/ bitching, thereby, you're not getting anything done.

>>135194637
oh ho ho! but you do not see my friend that talking to people like you is vital in my plan of addressing people like you...

fed is just a government agency

can be shut down tomorrow

>>135187184
>Wake up
>drive my unregulated car out of my driveway
>Pay toll booth as I drive over McDonalds(c) sidewalk
>Pay toll booth as I drive onto our neighborhoods driveways
>Pay toll before turning onto Wendys(c) Street
>Pay toll before getting onto Goldman Sachs(c) freeway
>Unregulated cheap car breaks down
>Goldman Sachs dispatches a plow to shove my car off the road with me still in it
>my car is now completely destroyed
>I'm billed $4000 in bitcoin for the service of having my car shoved off the road, for repairing the road my car damaged when scraping against it, and for the traffic jams I caused, all of this I agreed to by agreeing to travel on said private roadway
>Such is life in Anon's lolbertarian paradise

>>135194756
Addressing is not convincing.
If you'll take not of your surroundings, no minds have been changed. Everyone here came here to shitpost.

>>135195146
your imagination and reasoning are definitely what you should be more concerned about

>>135195283
its research for future application my man. it's much more entertaining to do this here than on other platforms

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>>135188420
> t. brainwashed statist

>>135195611
That's a bit like researching sex by watching porn don't you think?

>>135195489
And why aren't you concerned about yours.
>>135187683
>build a road, charge a fee for use
>by consent and not force
>except roads are physical things that take up land
>and there's only a limited amount of land available
>so people are still forced to use the roads because they have no other way of getting to where they need to go

>>135195783
pols are smarter, shitposting aside i'd rather observe lines of reasoning from here

Bump-a-roonie

>>135195736
>t. ape who's too primitive to understand complex social processes like "the whole"

>>135195918
you are what CS Lewis would call "Defeatist Trash" honestly try using your imagination for things (((people))) haven't already told you to think.
i have more faith in the eventual evolution in consciousness

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>>135195146
>wake up
>tax season
>pay 20% income for existing
>forget to report income from son's lemonade stand
>tax evasion is worse than murder
>thrown into prison with murderers
>murdered
>son receives his inheritance minus inheritance tax
>TAXED

>>135196526
>CS Lewis
Are you going to refute what I said or just shitpost?
>eventual evolution in consciousness
In other words you're sitting next to the communists, waiting for your utopia to magically become possible.

>>135196878
>pay 20% income for living in someone else's territory and using up their resources and enjoying their protection.
Why do you think you should get to be a parasite?

>>135196254
who defines "the whole"?

oh wait, let me guess. It's "the whole" right?

>>135196905
how can i refute your demented imagination? that's your problem pal
there are multiple ways to skin a cat, think bigger

20%? LOL, I paid a 34% EFFECTIVE income tax rate, not marginal, 34% on every dollar earned. I earned under $300k, business owner.

>>135197138
The group that holds the most power, and the definition's gonna be different depending on the context, i.e. representing vs protecting.

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>>135197256
>the fact that land is finite and private entities can't endlessly build roads to preserve "voluntary association" is demented imagination

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>>135178058
You have rights because society recognize them. But for society to exists, it needs the ability to remove certain rights under specific circunstances.

Hence, taxation is not theft, as it is just merely the process that gives life to the same society that grants you rights

>>135193098
They issue papers which are paid for in full with real value, and interest and with it they create inflation which also robs everyone in the country.
Thats like triple theft-COGS

And this faggot OP complains about having roads, police, firemen, soldiers, schools.

>>135197867
the fact you can't imagine anything but one road to each location is demented. it's clear you have no faith in humanity's ability to innovate, why not just apply it to yourself as well?

>>135197059
Taxation is not rent, its a ransom.

>protection
there's a reason we Americans actually care about the 2a. To protect ourselves FROM the government and anything else.

>"gubmint owns everything cause they'll kill you if you don't pay"
hmm

>>135198441
don't forget about the supreme court case that officially states police have no duty to protect us- that one is cute too

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How many men? is a thought experiment used to demonstrate the concept of taxation as theft. The experiment uses a series of questions to posit a difference between criminal acts and majority rule. For example, one version asks, "Is it theft if one man steals a car?" "What if a gang of five men steal the car?" "What if a gang of ten men take a vote (allowing the victim to vote as well) on whether to steal the car before stealing it?" "What if one hundred men take the car and give the victim back a bicycle?" or "What if two hundred men not only give the victim back a bicycle but buy a poor person a bicycle, as well?" The experiment challenges an individual to determine how large a group is required before the taking of an individual's property becomes the "democratic right" of the majority.

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>>135198656
aka how many kicks does it take to get to the center of a statist's ideology?

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>>135198310
The fact you can't comprehend that one road to each location or 500 roads to each location doesn't make a difference is demented.
You are still being forced, by the necessity to get to your location, to drive down someone else's road. The only way around that would be to build your own road across unclaimed land; which as we already established, cannot happen once all the land is claimed.

>it's clear you have no faith in humanity's ability to innovate
You not realizing it was humanity's innovation, that progressed it (several millennia ago) beyond your primitive systems, to more advanced civilizations, is poetry.

>>135197602
>might makes right
type C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-M in google

>51% is "the whole"
you use the insult "ape" when you want to live in a literal tribal setting where life is governed by the low IQ majority or even a group of (((elders))) who control them.

>>135199098
would you buy a single cotton sock for $9,999? would you buy it if no one else sold any socks at all? how long would there continue to be a sock-less market?

>>135199098
and you not understanding that humanity will continue to evolve to states that make our current one look primitive is... well it's just heartbreaking. love ya retard

>>135183055
I'm a libertarian too, but taxation is only theft when it is unequal and provided to individuals rather than the community. There is a necessity for many publicly funded institutes, including our roadways, prisons, and military, but there are many that are unneeded as well. All in all, in the us as it stands now, taxation is largely theft.

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>>135198441
Ransom would mean you're being held here against your will.

>2a
Is an Ancap really retarded enough to invoke the second amendment?
Its purpose is to protect the legitimate government from tyrannical forces, by making sure there's a well-equipped army on standby. The intention was good but the application's naive, pic related.

>>135199832
It was never intended to protect the government, it was meant to protect the people, being the average ccitizen. The entire constitution was basically founded with the idea that a resolution would eventually be necessary on our future.

>>135198148
how would giving this sort of power to ANYBODY ever work out? The government cannot be just, only people can be just. And those who are just don't seek the type of power like those who are unjust.

>>135200033
A revolution*

>>135199379
>might makes right
>right
We're not arguing political philosophy.

>51% is "the whole"
Where did you get that from? In what world is the majority more powerful just by virtue of being the majority? That's brainlet reasoning and you should feel embarrassed.

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>>135178058
>i want to participate in society without paying any of the required money, time, or resources needed to maintain said society

move to somalia or the middle of the ozarks and fuck off

>>135200088
Thus a constitution mad by revolutionaries before they had the chance to be corrupted, or by an honest man, is a necessity to any well being country. Even more important is the individuals drive to follow it by word in order for it to maintain its elgitimacy. The US, unfortunately, has begun to suffer from its inability to maintain the stability for our great constitution.

>>135178058
how about you move to Somalia you faggot

>>135199732
>There is a necessity for many publicly funded institutes, including our roadways, prisons, and military, but there are many that are unneeded as well. All in all, in the us as it stands now, taxation is largely theft.
Given this assessment, how do you characterize the fact that the US deficit is many times larger than GDP and therefor it's impossible for the government to even tax you at a rate appropriate for all the public services provided?

As a libertarian surely you believe in paying for what you use, could you not argue you are actually indebted to the US government?

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>>135199392
>sock-less market
Have you had a stroke? What is that supposed to be an argument for/against?

>>135199552
>my utopia will be possible eventually, I can't tell you how or even what's necessary, but just you trust me! Meanwhile let's overthrow the ebil gubmintss xD

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>>135200212
>the majority more powerful just by virtue of being the majority
dude really??? it's fucking manpower backing the majority don't be that obtuse
on second thought, you're probably just a shill because it's obvious we've been in a slide thread with op disappearing after one post

>>135178705
>chains of capitalism
>freedom of statism
Whoa...

>>135200464
yeah the apes couldn't understand it either, don't worry pal, if you believe in reincarnation you might just come back with some intellect next time!!
the sock thing was an allegory for what you think is going to happen, like i said, love ya retard

>>135200477
>manpower backing the majority
>implying 10 million sub-60 IQ niggers living in tribal societies are more powerful than 5 million 100+ IQ Europeans with a centralized government, standing army, and dedicated war economy.
I'm not the obtuse one.

But yes OP was probably sliding. How the fuck does that make me a shill?

>>135200424
Why do you think I stated that our current taxation is theft? We spend money ceaselessly involving ourselves in saving and helping countries that could give two shots about us. We publicly spend money on pointless tasks, such as the Space program. We hand out entitlements like hotcakes while bringing in millions a year who take them. We are failing because our priorities are fucked, and our politicians realize that short sided favors are the best way to wrangle votes.
In my opinion, the way to solve this is by a much more thorough constitution that details the limitation of government involvement in the personal life of its citizens, and in its spending on individuals.

>>135200776
your logic was so absent i thought it had to be deliberate, my apologies man

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>>135200704
>an allegory for what you think is going to happen
Except it's not and you've just outed yourself as an illiterate nigger.

>>135200933
>being so triggered you have to reply with multiple one-line posts

>>135186630
>guys it's not theft if i steal money from you and put it to good use!!!

libertarians are sometime more annoying than communists i swear..

>>135200930
You didn't address the core premise of my post.

>>135200424
And as far as indebted, no. No man chooses were he lives, and no man owes anyone else anything save for the ones that raised them. I owe my mom and dad and beyond that I'm my own man. I will serve just causes, donate to the worthy, and volunteer to things that matter, but all of that should be of my own will and not because of this petty idea of owing your country. I love the USA, frankly I would die for it if it was in threat, but I refuse to accept the idea that I owe it anything.

>>135199832
America was founded by revolutionists. Do you really think that they intended the Constitution to protect a future, self-legitimized supergovernment?

oh how you have been trained well in those public schools

>protect the government from tyranny

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>>135186630

Tax is always theft no matter how done.

>>135178705
>freedom=decadence
>no freedom=no decadence
>if people are free to make poor decisions and face the full consequences, they will continue to make poor decisions, but if they are not free to face their own consequences they will stop
Kek

>>135201223
Apologies, I got hypes up on the first half and missed the actually question. I responded to it now.

>>135181113

You don't like taxation don't use the government's currency

PROBLEM SOLVED.

>>135201178
you have the darndest habit of getting distracted by the smallest things and your schizophrenia, i wanted to really make sure you understood every word i was saying. how's being so retarded you can't apply patterns or spot new ones? that is some basic level IQ shit bro. can you apply once concept to another? it doesn't seem like it- hence the multi response system i've developed

>>135201549
Unto Caesar what is Caesars. True enough, but America was founded on the idea that it's ideologies matched those of the common man. It's changed and I'd say people have a right to be annoyed.

>>135201376
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

>being necessary to the security of a free State
>the security of a free State
>of a free State
>free State
>State

Illiterate fucking apes, I swear to God.

>>135200212
Too dumb to observe all of the examples where the majority are manipulated against the successful minority ?

>>135201337
>And as far as indebted, no. No man chooses were he lives, and no man owes anyone else anything save for the ones that raised them. I owe my mom and dad
This logic doesn't follow. You don't choose your parents.

>but all of that should be of my own will and not because of this petty idea of owing your country
You can of your own volition, disconnect from the infrastructure and go live where humans won't find you for 100 years, however you choose to sit around surrounded by infrastructure created by your society while proclaiming "well it wasn't my choice to be surrounded by all this awesome shit other people built". It's inane and it's a childish warped view of objective reality.

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>>135201611
If you want to take a break from trying to create your own autismo language, feel free to actually address my arguments.

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>>135178058
I AM WITH YOU BROTHER FUCK STATISTS

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>>135200234
>all my good goy money is used to maintain my society
>why are we trillions in debt?
>I guess that just means society is even better

>>135201790
>manipulated
By who?
They're the most powerful, then, and "successful" minority is no longer successful.
Shouldn't really be this difficult.

>>135201926
It's illegal to live of the grid. Even living alone you will be found, taxed, or imprisoned. There is no longer a place to escape. Your naive to think so. And I suppose my view concerning my parents is a bit bias, but that's simply my personal opinion on them. They did me well, I believe they deserve everything I can give them in return.
And that's the lack of understanding you have about my views. Nothing in this world is free, but the government shouldn't own what other people made. Did the US invent the automobile? Did it invent the plane? Did it create all those 'awesome things other people built'? No. Those were individuals and groups of individuals who should be rewarded for what they did, but a middle man who can't be even close to effective should have no role in that rewarding.
What we do need that middle man for is to ensure our legal systems and our military and protection dont sell us out.

>>135202315
>Kike-run (((capitalist))) economies are the only ones where taxation exists.
Not an argument.

Why are ancaps such dedicated anti-intellectuals?

>>135202117
so you can't spot patterns and apply them to different scenarios, got it. what did people tell you to believe again(aka your argument)?

>>135202315
What you really mean to say is that you're just a gibsmedat. Again, if you don't want to be taxed, move to the middle of the ozarks or somewhere else and live off the grid.

>>135194432
>in exchange for the governments protection and the right to work within our land
what did he mean by this

Fuck libertarians and minarchists. You cucks need to go back to /reddit/. At least NatSocs and Commies admit to their statism.

>>135202750
just be sure to fake your own death first

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>>135183747
>. I used to give a shit like you. I used to be a faggoty libertarian like you. Then i looked at the white genocide happening, and i realized i don't give a shit about "muh taxes" or money in general when my people risk being eradicated from the face of the Earth.
then you are retarded. the civil rights act and rising tax rates have done far more to destroy white communities than any libertarian anecdote you could ever imagine

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>>135201753
you're the illiterate one
did marx personally give you all those commas

>>135202705
>your argument
>>>>135195918
Very first post to you and you've failed to refute it throughout this entire discussion.

>>135202676
that is an argument though. we did not have an income tax until the civil war, and it was abolished soon after. guess who brought it back? jews

>>135203194
>>135203194
>failed to refute it
here is your claim
>roads are physical things that take up land
>and there's only a limited amount of land available
source?

>>135178058

If taxation is theft, then property rights are theft as well.

Learn civics 101 and come back again.

>ITT: Kiddies that haven't grown out of the "rebellion" phase and still have no clue how civilized world works.

>>135201753
You have autism if you think "free state" means the government

>>135202621
>It's illegal to live of the grid.
If you are rejecting the foundations of the society at its core, namely the proposition that the government has a valid purpose, then why would you regard its laws at all? Again, this is an illogical proposition on your behalf, basically not an argument.

>Even living alone you will be found, taxed, or imprisoned. There is no longer a place to escape. Your naive to think so.
This guy managed, and he was not only close to civilization, but invading it. In short, complete non argument.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/11/american-hermit-caught-27-years


>And I suppose my view concerning my parents is a bit bias, but that's simply my personal opinion on them. They did me well, I believe they deserve everything I can give them in return.
I am asserting that society has done you well too, not only does it to this actively, there are at least 800 years of structural societal reforms which have led us to this point which you're so quick to reject (at least philosophically, because as you stated above you're not really willing to actually follow your ideology to its logical conclusion despite it being completely within your power to do so).

>Did the US invent the automobile? Did it invent the plane? Did it create all those 'awesome things other people built'? No. Those were individuals and groups of individuals
Yeah they're called "white people" or "europeans", I expect you are one, why do you hate the successes of your ancestors? This kind of self loathing is pretty sad, and perhaps the reason you project this irrational hate of all structure.

>What we do need that middle man for is to ensure our legal systems and our military and protection dont sell us out.
So... a fucking government, holy shit you are autistic.

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>>135203033
ok

>>135203583
Please archive
https://archive.is/Blf0h

>>135203194
your demented version of an anarchistic society is not what is going to happen, sorry to ruin your autisitc reality. maybe get a job as a liberal psychic? they'd probably still pay you money for your made up prophecies. i'm not debating your imagination pal.
and yes it was a question, what was your actual argument? your "predictions" do not count

>>135203444
one of those needs coercive force, and the other only needs defensive force
you really are new to this whole political science thing arent you

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>>135203583
>This guy managed,
>american-hermit-caught-
lol brown person detected

>>135202383
>t. moral relativist scum

>>135203589
my source is still older

>>135203226
>we did not
>we
Who?

>>135203393
>source
Common fucking sense? If you're gonna talk about space exploration or something, please hurry up.

>>135203945
common fucking sense, is not a source. its common fucking sense not to steal yet here you are trying to justify income tax lol

>>135203226
you think the free market is how they gain control?

>>135203945
>Who?
whites

>>135203461
>the government
Stop being vague, nigger.
Under the terms of the founders' philosophy, the only legitimate government is one that has the consent of the governed.

>>135204133
they hate the free market. no patent trolling, no taxes, no bureaucracy paid by taxes? a second holocaust for them

>>135203857
It would've taken less than half a second to click the link and not look like a dumbass.

Is this the power of Anarcho-Capitalism?

>>135188664

You sound like a communist

>>135178058
Are you 12 or uneducated nigger?

>>135203226
>>135204060
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

>>135203226
>>135204133
meant for>>135202676

Taxation cannot be theft because taxation (and money, by extension) is an artificial concept created by your government. If you don't want to buy into the system, then you can leave.

The only way it would be theft is if the government was repossessing your shit. Which is funny, considering I never hear libertarians bitching about Police stealing your shit.

>>135204334
you claimed he could just move off gid to deflect justification
then you proved him right. and still deflecting. you still have not justified taxes

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>>135178058
Well if you don't take resources from citizens how are you supposed to run/defend a country?

I suppose you could argue that it isn't spent that way, but that is an entirely different problem then the act of taxing people.

>>135188664
>"you deserve to be shot if some people think you should be idk I just want the next GOT episode to release"

>>135203583
Hey you understood my mwtaphor. I agree the government is required to serve some purposes, but that it complete blows at others. My point is that the current state of the US taxing and spending is fucked and unfair. And hey, that guy you linked got caught hug? It's almost as if you will be punished for trying to live for yourself.
Your points here kind of descend into past pride. I'm proud of myself and my family, but I don't take credit for their accomplishments. And again, my point is that those who bring reforms individually, as the more than often do, should be rewarded rather than the middle man who takes the ideas, adds beacracy and makes it less effective (that's the government)
Why should somebody continue to be rewarded for something that has become a universal part of culture of society, when the individuals who brought it around and are responsible for the deed are dead?
This is the issue I get when people argue against me. They seem to think yhat my ideology is anti-society. They couldn't be more wrong. My ideology is extremely pro-groupist, in a way that is not forced on people. I want to help my mom and dad, I am not forced to. I want to be a part of my community and volunteer, I'm not forced to. I want to serve and help my country, however I am also forced to, and therein lies the problem. There was that old quote 'Ask not what your country can do for you.' Beautiful statement for wartime, but in terms of a country at peace it's bullshit. Always ask what your country is doing for you, because more than likely it's just draining you of your oppurtunity to be an individual for the sake of nationalism, pride, or some other feeling that amounts to you being given no choice but feeling good about it.

>>135203700

Property rights don't mean a thing to you eh? I guess you don't mind sharing your dwelling and other possessions with complete strangers with no strings attached.


Protip: anarchy is a code world for anti-civilization.

I always find it comical that these anarchist think that removing the government will create some kind of utopia and solve almost all of the problems with the human condition.

Almost all of them never try living off the grid and try to survive on their own wits and grit.

>>135203913
Drafts are also older than final texts. What's your point?
>>135204060
We're debating what is or isn't stealing, try not to be such a jew.
The fact that the land we have available to build on isn't infinite is the established fact. Burden is on you to prove it wrong.
>>135204145
Well that makes it even less of an argument then.

>>135204485
The free market enables them to get into control, as much as it enables anyone to. Maybe jews are more adept at the manipulations and deceptions to actually achieve it, though.

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Taxation is no different from theft.

>>135204950
Slaves are forced to work.
Is anyone forcing you to work?

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>>135202757
Mafia is ok if they act super official

>>135194606
Not an argument....Sad really. Central banking is efficient. It was created by Isaac Newton so if you think you are smarter then go out and make a better system. I will give credit to the Lolbergs for making bitcoin as it was an attempt to create a Austrian type money system but anyone can see how easy it is to Jew just about any banking system.>>135198259

>>135205182

Regardless if I work or not, taxation is still theft.

>>135204907
>>135203194
also, and let me rephrase the sock exercise, replacing a sock with a road:
>would you pay $9,999 to use a road? would you pay it if there were no other roads at all? how long would there continue to be a road-less market?
now, when you apply logic to itself an interesting phenomena happens, you figure out that if some douche was charging waaaay over the profit margin to use His road, even if it was the only road, not enough people would use it and he would have lost all that money he put into building the road- a goodly amount. if this was the case and it was the only road and it was way overpriced then no one would open a business on it or where that road required to be- what customers will have money left after the toll? another road, maybe longer, would be built to satisfy through traffic. let's say this road is too expensive as well, he loses all of the money he put into his road as well. now let's say a third longer road is put in, but this guy is a douche too and still charges too much- and there is no way to get from one place to the other. eventually majority rule(which is in itself a tool and can be much like a gun-used for good or evil- it'd still exist in a sense within an anarchist society) would come into play. eventually all business and homes that needed transportation by these roads would be abandoned and the road builders will never make any money and be out all that they spent, that is majority rule working. new people would eventually build moderately priced roads- market competition

>>135198259
You are right about interest creating inflation. The natural rate on interest for the national treasury bonds should be zero. You are finally getting and understanding the kikery that is the Austrian School which exists to defend the inflationary extraction of interest by Kikes.

>>135202757
>>135205222
>I should be able to live on someone else's territory and use up their resources without following the rules they laid down for me.
That makes you a parasite.

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New /HTG/ thread for any interested anons:

>>135192817

The primary purpose of government is to enforce property rights, unfortunately the personnel of government is composed of people who seek to abolish private property.

>>135205688
Libertarians don't believe in property rights. It's pointless.

>>135204791
I simply don't see the utility in your perception, leftists look at everything as culturally and group relative, and on the opposite spectrum you seem to be extolling hyper-individualism, neither are pragmatic views of the past, present or future.

>>135204685
>you claimed he could just move off gid to deflect justification
>then you proved him right.
Allow me to defy logic and scientific method by proving a negative.

>you still have not justified taxes
If you can't see how the argument that the government has a valid mandate is justification for taxation your IQ is room temperature.

>>135205906
what is a service without the right to refuse it? do governments own the earth?

>>135178058
>landlord owns property you live on
>landlord charges you rent
>"It's his land, his right."

>government owns property you live on
>government charges you rent
>"OMG! Taxation is theft!!!111!!

>>135201504
When you push out the authoritarians who kill the socially undesirables, you are left with those who promote socially leftist policies. They will make sure niggers and spics will never cease their faggotry.
If they are 'not free', they will be removed and the consequences will be final.

>>135192392
In a free market, there is no state. No state=no state borders. Free markets are internationalist/globalist by their very nature because they promote free labour and trade. You will ONLY be left with niggers.

>>135204289
>fund (((revolutions)))
>get jobless, non-property owning minorities the vote
>get jobless, non-property owning women the vote
>say you will give them free shit
>they vote for the free shit
>endlessly cook up myths of oppression to stoke the fire against the new hardworking minority
>run out of shit to do
>elite hide with money and wait
>men rebuild society
>oy vey time for annudah revolution

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>>135178058
OP is expecting these bunch of degenerate retards to understand morality.
OP is a faggot.
I agree with OP =D

>>135181113
Non meme answer.

Not paying taxes and living in a state is theft.

You may disagree with how your tax money is used, but you can't argue that it isn't used on upkeep of the state. The state in turn provides the society and infrastructure you need for your life.

Is it possible for a group of people to self organise and maintain those structures? Yes, such an organisation is called a state and will have some form of mandatory membership fee.

tl;dr Ancaps esse delendam!

>>135205906
I only push individualism on the politic spectrum. I don't believe in forcing anything. What I do believe in is people willingly working together to accomplish amazing things, and those groups being rewarded and having an incentive to continue to do so.
People have and will continue to work together, what we need is a system that allows the individual to be free enough to make innovation and face competition that will drive them to do better. Capitalism does a fine job of doing that, and freedom should be the most basic privledge of all man.

>>135206292
op never cared man, 1 post </3

>>135205493
The sock wasn't the issue, the issue was you posing questions that have literally nothing at all to do with the point.

Look at the entire scenario you just drew out again, but this time instead of all the road owners being assholes and charging too much, they charge a cheap amount that everyone in the society can afford. The businesses on the roads flourish instead of being abandoned.

Now explain how anything I said has changed.
Do I still not have to either travel on those roads or build a road of my own to get to my destination? Answer: Yes or No?

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>>135206052
>do governments own the earth?

>>135206380
>What I do believe in is people willingly working together to accomplish amazing things, and those groups being rewarded and having an incentive to continue to do so.
What I believe in is societal groups willingly working together to accomplish amazing things, and those societal groups being rewarded and having an incentive to continue to do so.

Your argument can be applied from the social to the individual level.

>>135206527
you can see beyond a single event so i'm afraid applying logic here is futile. it's been good mate!

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>>135206444
Happy hunting mother Fucker. =)

>>135206559
where is their god given right to own every single piece of land? it's people who own land, not the government
except even if you own your own land and never leave it you still owe some organization money...

>>135178058
how is state suposed to defend private prpety if not with taxation? Ancaps rekt

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>>135206821
Nope, sorry. The correct answer was "Yes"
Yes, I do still have to either travel on those roads or build a road of my own to get to my destination.

So once the point is reached where people can no longer keep building roads because they opt out of using others', because there's no more land left to build roads on, people are FORCED, out of necessity, to use the roads that have already been built.
If you argue that roads with cheap fees should be "good enough", then you aren't actually against taxation. You believe taxation is perfectly fine, as long as it's a reasonable amount.

Congratulations, you've been liberated from your intrinsically flawed meme-ideology. Feel free to join us in civilized human society.

>>135207259
people have the responsibility to defend their own land or pay other people for it
you're welcome

>>135207434
the answer is only living places with moderately priced roads- your severely damaged imagination wins again though doesn't it

>>135206944
Governmental mandate comes from the people you spastic.

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>>13520745
>defend their own land or pay other people for it
What do you think law enforcement and the military is?

>>135206944
>where is their god given right
Where is yours?
The government consists of people.
It's essentially a corporation.
>>135207621
>only living places with moderately priced roads
How do I move without using roads?
Also
>If you argue that roads with cheap fees should be "good enough", then you aren't actually against taxation. You believe taxation is perfectly fine, as long as it's a reasonable amount.

Looks like I've liberated another. You're welcome, friend.

>>135207767
when does that consent take place again? birth? and we're supposed to just leave at 18 if we don't like it- i got that.