Refute this. Protip: you can't.

>>134958096
how can a company ever expand and get better equipment reducing the workload on the employees if they dont make a dime

A lot of the profits are invested in the company and lead to economic growth.

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Stop hiding your hide, kike.

>>134958244
Companies don't exist. They are merely groups of individual workers.

>>134958355
>individual workers don't exist they're just collectives of cells!

>>134958096
I'm self-employed.

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>>134958446
>cells don't exist, they're just collectives of atoms!

>>134958519
atoms don't exist! They're just collections of quarks!

>>134958355
>artists dont exist, the viewer is the artist

>>134958355
That only works if the workers are equally invested in the company
Most companies have a primary investor in the form of an owner.
If i contribute 10,000 in cash, plus 50,000 in labor, i should receive more than someone who contributes 30,000 in labor.

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>>134958355
are you retarted you dont fucking need groups people for a busnes to work at this point it can literal be one fucking employee who pushes three buttons

>I create art
>I sell my art
>Profit
>Buy more materials
>Pay the bills

Who's wages aren't paid?

>>134958096
just out of curiosity
how is the business owner supposed to be paid if there are no profits?

>>134958096
if everybody gets the same amount of money regardless of effort put in tell me... WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYBODY DO ANYTHING?
WHY WORK IN A COAL MINE WHEN YOU GET PAYED THE SAME AS SOME FAT CUNT THAT SITS AT HOME ALL DAY EATING SNIKKERS?
I'll wait

>>134958096
correct. businesses aren't charities

>>134958096
Are you fucking retarded? Why should the guy cleaning the toilets at McDonald's get a share of the profits because the people actually running the fucking business made some good financial decisions while Tyrone was scrubbing some shit off the floor?

>>134958765
he isnt and he dies and so does the busines like ralphs is in my home town

>>134958837
no different than capitalism

>>134958096

>all profits go to labor

>no one ever puts up capital to fund a new enterprise ever again

>>134958891
Cause we are all equal!!!!!

>>134958765
Depends on if the owner takes a salary. These people are fucking commies though. They need to be executed not educated.

>>134958096
Profits are the wages of the business owner. They work too, y'know.

>>134958992
have you ever heard of mechanics?
if a job is supposed to take 8 hours and he completes it in 3 hours he gets the equivalent to 8 hours of pay for that job so he will excel in wealth but if he spends more than 8 hours on it he loses money for not meeting standards

>>134958992
With capitalism you have freedom of choice
If you're homeless, you chose that path and you know it
If you run a company and earn a shit ton, you chose that path and you know it

I am an average income earner myself BECAUSE I CHOSE THAT PATH AND I KNOW IT

>>134958244
>>134958263
>>134958764

Better equipment and new material is an expense not profit.

>>134958765

The business's owners are it's employees

>>134958837

You're right that's stupid. Those who provide more skilled labor should be payed more. Though not more than 6X the lowest paid worker or so.

Self-management by workers is also important.

These organizations exist and are called Co-ops

>>134959364
>Better equipment and new material is an expense not profit.
???
Profits can be spent on new assets
LEAF

>>134959364
ive used my own profits to expand my bisnes and buy out competition and create artificial competition

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*JEW DETECTED*
HAND OVER YOUR SHEKLES IMEDIALITY AND RETURN YOUR STOLEN MEMES BEFORE YOUR SHOWER LEFTY/POL/

>>134958355

Yeah and borders don't exist and cars are just parts moving together

>>134958096
What about when all the workers are machines?

>>134959793
only the (((U.N.))) would try something like that or the (((E.U.)))

>>134959793
to make you pay them

>>134958096
Profit is literally the point.

People risk capital to make money for themselves.

They pay people to maximize said money and those people get paid wages lmao

>>134958096
Profits are the dividends you get from investing your money in capital.

>>134958658
quark's don't exist, they're just a collection of subatomic jews.

>>134958096
Yeah cause it takes zero money in order to keep maintenance of equipment and pay other bills for the company aswell as have the owners paycheck. So basically in your mind all the money should be given to workers and none should be left over so they can buy products such as food ingredients in order for food companies/factories (for example) can continue to keep making product to sell thus keeping the company going which would lead to workers being paid. Idiot

>>134960086
subatomic jews dont exist their just a collection of subatomic lizard people

>>134960477
Is nuclear fusion basically a mini-holocaust for subatomic jews?

>>134960014
That would be true if all profit was gained that way, but it isn't.

>>134960737
yes and ill sell it at a fair market rate

>>134960744
It is, though. You own the capital that people use to make shit, you invested in the capital so you get the money from it.
>>134960854
How much for a pico-holocaust?

>>134961052
>you invested in the capital so you get the money from it.
What if you inherited the business while it was profitable?

>>134961052
id say id charge about $200 bitcoin for every part within per 50 atoms
but the set up costs would take awhile to obtain :(

>>134961112
Then your father/mother/sugar daddy invested in the capital and decided to provide for his/her offspring/gay sex slave after they were gone with the dividends of their investment

>>134961341
or 1

>>134958096
There is no such thing as profit.
Refute this.
>protip: you cant

>>134961349
So profit can also be the dividends you get from someone else who invested his/her money in capital.

Profits are payback to the investors who floated the workers salary when the company was in the red

>>134961453
i tend to call them massive gains in wealth that cant always be reported [cash is cheaper and we ignore tax policy]

>>134961487
Ya

>>134958096
What about the huge monetary risk and opportunity cost the entrepreneur takes on by starting a business? Why do they deserve the same wages as the employees? What incentive do they have to start a business?

>>134961629
So it's fine to live off other peoples' work just because your ancestors made some smart investments.

Alright, I'm glad we settled that. Capitalism is the ideology of the lazy who want to live off other peoples' work even though they did nothing to earn it.

>>134958096
If they want the wages, they're welcome to design and organize everything themselves. Oh wait, they can't. Otherwise they'd just shut up and do it.

>>134958096
Profit is the wage earned by a proper manager.

>>134958096
Just because money exists does not entitle you to it. If you want to get paid more, be worth more.

>>134961791
>parents make a smart investment
>oh, cool, money. It'd be great if I could use this to provide for my offspring somehow
Why are communists so autistic?

>>134959012
You could not possibly be this retarded.

>>134961620
Here's the thing.
After paying liabilities, upkeep, taxes, etc. you'd be left with 10% on a really fucking good year.
If you don't reinvest all of that back into the business, you don't get 10% the next year.
Where is this profit that lays around communist keep talking about? It doesn't exist in the real world.

>>134962064
Guess what, it's possible for parents to provide for their kid without necessarily having a system that creates dynasties. If kids are born of rich parents, they already get a strong advantage over normal people even before their inherit.

>>134958096
>Profits
>are
>earnings
>minus
>costs

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>>134958096
SAGE, you fucking commie

>>134958096
>prove a negative
burden of proof.

>>134961791
Lel, this whole thread should be saged for bait. But no one is forcing anyone to work at someones business, they are free to work wherever they want or start their own business to distribute profits however they like. But all in all everyone is rewarded with the capital they put in. In most cases the employee's capital is time, while the business owners is his own capital, aka investments to create the business, and burdens a greater risk, so should also reap the reward. And if you feel like you as an employee are being rewarded for the capital you are providing, you're always welcome to use your leverage as a worker and take your time elsewhere. Stop being a victim to everything in life and make something of yourself.

>>134962116
not doing looking for loopholes in take polices damn you must be retarded i tend to end up with about 40% on a bad year on my best year it was about 394% buddy heres the thing i know many loopholes and legal ways to reduce production costs

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>>134958096

PROFITS
ARE
THE
REWARD
FOR
ASSUMING
RISK

WAGES
ARE
THE
REWARD
OF
THE
WORKING
CLASS

>>134962217
Seriously how fucked is the education sys in leafville?

>>134962565
>not doing looking for loopholes in take polices damn you must be retarded
...lol wow. no intelligence here.

>>134962217
>its possible for parents to provide for their kids without having a system that creates dynasties
And what exactly is wrong with dynasties? I love my children, and I want them to have the best future possible, therefore I want them to enjoy the fruits of every investment I've made in my life.

>>134958999
Chekd for carl the cuck.

>>134958096
>treats profits and net income as equivalents
W E W
stay poor

>>134958096
k cunt now refute this:

welfare is from the paid taxes of demographically imploding honest hard working middle class whites

>>134962754
ignoring bad grammar
have you ever heard of vertical and horizontal integration

>>134962217
But thats almost contradictory to human existence. Most of the time life comes down to wanting to provide the best life possible for your offspring. This is a goal shared by most parents, who the fuck are you to decide how they should spend their hard earned money? if they want to give it all to charity they should be able to. If they want their kids to never have to work a day in their life, then they should have that option to because its their's, not yours. They put in the hard work to gift it to their kids, rather than spending time on a cambodian tandem bike repair board.

>>134962908
>ignoring bad grammar
you think that was just bad grammar?
I couldn't even tell what you were trying to say
... are you one of the blacks?

>>134963061
yes im black and also an orthodox jew got a problem with that

>>134958096
fuck sake how do you faggots not get this?

there are more costs to production than labour you utter cretin

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>>134958096
This is shit tier bait but let me lay it out for you: Business owners are the creators and of their business and take risk by making a business. they earn their profits. They have to make back at least what they put in, but nobody creates a business to break even for the fuck of it. The wage you get for working in said business is fair because the owner does all the work to keep the place up, to keep the lights on, to order products, to go through the logistics to make sure they are actually earning money, and have money to pay you, while you still making their business worthwhile for themselves. Maybe te business owner took out a loan to start it. Guess what has to be paid back on top of all of the above? The loan. This isn't "stealing" since the wages don't belong to you in the first place. Retarded commies like you just think the owners do nothing but the reality is they do the most. If you want better wages, improve your resume by actually trying to move up in the world instead of bitching that the business owner doesn't put his hard earned money into your hand for no fucking reason when all you do is clean toilets and brew coffee, and do a halfass job at it. If your mind is set on >muh wages, then the problem lies with your work ethic. This is america, the land of opportunity. If your bitching about your boss not giving you 50k+ a year salary for doing teen jobs, you've already failed in life. Start a business if you want te big bucks, make a fucking youtube account, do anything other than work a 9-5 and bitch about your 9-5 if you want to get the money you think the world owes your sorry ass just for being alive. Nobody is gonna give you free money like this person is bitching about. Get a real job, make something of yourself, or fucking put a bullet in your head, those are your options. Its a little thing called a hustle, and you gotta start at the bottom just like everyone else.

>>134963341
in my case its labor not production

>>134963341

The only labor communists know is digging ditches to bury their dead.

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If the worker thinks they can do better than the company, or that their labor is exploited, they are free to try to do better in the free market

>>134962503
>Lel, this whole thread should be saged for bait. But no one is forcing anyone to work at someones business, they are free to work wherever they want
It's really not that simple, because most people need to work to live, and unemployment is a thing, so sometimes people actually are forced to take the jobs they can.

>or start their own business to distribute profits however they like
It's a possibility, but not everyone has the capability to do that, especially when there's already so many businesses around. And if I remember correctly, around 80% of new businesses fail.

>But all in all everyone is rewarded with the capital they put in.
Unless they inherit it.

>you're always welcome to use your leverage as a worker and take your time elsewhere.
In an economy with unemployment, it's owners who have that leverage, unless you're particularly important, which not everyone can be.
>>134962858
>And what exactly is wrong with dynasties?
It's anti-meritocratic, and, in some cases, can even lead to political problems. Like when you have people so rich that they can start influencing society (example, Soros). This is a problem with very rich people in general, not just dynasties, but the thing with dynasties is that the longer a family has been rich, the less capable they tend to be of empathizing with poorer people.
>>134962909
See above. I really don't care about how "natural" inheritance is. There are plenty of things that are natural as well, but that we agree are bad enough for society that they should be outlawed, like rape, murder theft, etc. Immense wealth accumulation might not be directly as immoral as those, but it also ends up creating problem for society and just isn't worth it.

>>134962734
As shitty as America's but they don't have the excuse of niggers.

>>134958096
were does the capital to buy machinery and ingredients/hard material comes from then?

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>>134958096
>Tfw CEOs and companies realize that profits are unpaid wages of the workers
>So they right this wrong by, freeing all their employees from their bondage
>Now the workers have more time to spend with their families starving to death
>???????
>Profit, sorry unpaid workers wages

>>134958096
Then refuse to work unless you are paid what you think you should be.

>>134958096
>wages are te unpaid profits of the upperclassmen
I'm pro working class, but holy shit, how dumb and college drunk can you be?
Do an actual day of physical labor you soyfucks

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>>134963206

>>134963697
Trick question. The Federal Reserve.

>>134963697
good question ((brazil)) money or most currency are shitted out claim that their backed in gold

>>134958096
>what is time preference
-the entire left

>>134963697
Property is theft so those machines became stolen goods the moment they were purchased

>>134963738
Well, we need to kick out immigrants so the working class has more leverage.

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>>134958096
This is why i fired all of my employees and replaced them with a cnc machine.

>>134963994
>Property is theft
Fuck you. It's taxation is theft.

>>134963835
at least i dont want welfare like natsocs and corporate bail outs and other people like filthy hippies who dont want to see tree farms because trees have souls

>>134958244
That's true. However, a business should pay all extra profits equally/relatively to the workers before they make $1,000,000,000 a year. If a business needs extra money to sustain themselves or grow the employees should be informed and they all equally/relative to their salaries pay to sustain or grow the company. It should be a fairer relationship that's for sure.

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At least sage this shit you fucking redditor shits, god fuck.

>>134964043
Because you don't need anyone to operate or program said cnc machine.

t. Mazak operator

>>134964251
What happens when while you're operating your faggoty democratic workers commune I run a business with vision, hierarchy, organization, and only bring on the best people I can find for their roles and BTFO your shit-tier co-op in the market?

Commies are worse than nig nogs

>>134964251
>fair
Fuck you. Nothing is fair.

>>134964251
i have cameras in my businesses to see who is worthy of a raise and who isnt and inform the mangers who to cut and who to boost

>>134958096

You need profits to maintain your business (for example, to keep buying the raw materials you work with if that is needed), keep growing/expanding and have some savings in case the business goes through hard times.

It's very basic actually.

>>134964251
I think I get what you mean but then wouldn't things like minimum wage prohibit that kind pay growth with the company? Probably need some sort of growth based minimum wage would have to be proportionate with the companies earnings or something.

>>134958096
>1 post by this id
try to say "I quit" to a robber
I just disproved surplus ((theft))

>>134959520
Your missing the point dumb ass
Expenses are directly and specifically for new material and there for in and ideal environment has zero chance of going to the people who run the thing.

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>taking financial advice seriously from the unemployed 12 year old

>>134964140
>drug addict talking shit
lol

>>134964637
but they are not profit, those are accounted business expenses.

Absolutely nothing is stopping you from creating an employee owned co-op type thing that shares profits equally with employees, except your greed and incompetence

>>134964390
Your company fails because you can't keep workers, and have to operate a revolving door hiring model like McDonald's or Walmart, and unless your profits look like theirs you'll ultimately be losing money. Most companies just go under because the owner milks the company for all it's worth and fuck over the employees every chance they get.

>>134958096
National Socialism or GTFO

>>134959267
>If you're homeless, you chose that path and you know it
Lol no

>>134958096
>guy who makes the product: I deserve 100% of the profits made from selling this.
>guy who acquires the resources, tools, work place, sells the product and hires you to make it: Uh... no?

There is a problem in this country with income inequality and compensation not keeping pace with productivity, but this is just complete commie horseshit.

>>134965175
What does it do exactly?

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>>134964586
I've thought this for a while but isn't the statement
>"Nothing is fair" fair?
Because Everything is unfair for everyone which is in and of itself fair.

>>134965244
Sate controlled media is the only problem I think

>ITT: retards confusing revenue and profit

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>>134958096
No, profit represents the amount of money that the company is left with after the price at which the product is sold is lowered by the price of production (workers wages, materials, tools). You can not have economic growth and therefore more jobs if you don't have profits. How can any company grow and hire more people and make more and therefore cheaper products while at the same time employing more workers if it can't keep its profit in order to buy more machines, expand itself or invest in research.

If i hire 20 people to build me a house and they are more than fairly compensated, and after the house is build i decide not to sell it for 5 years after which the value is higher than the day it was built and i sell it am i somehow stealing from those workers i paid? No.

Socialist and commies are cancer that should be purged from this earth.

>>134964728
I'm not really sure what you mean. I don't think there should be a minimum wage per se anyway, but the salary should reflect fairly the work done and the companies overall profits. It does not do that now, and minimum wage is usually a slave wage around the world. Some people were arguably treated better as slaves, in the American model anyway, than a lot of 2nd and 3rd world workers. Even first world.

>>134965028
The funny thing is that socialists will often give more power to governments that are actively infringing on people's ability to share resources a certain way or govern themselves a certain way. Take government out of the picture and you can practice socialism without any interference.

>>134965281
No quit over thinking things, people have advantages and people have disadvantages

>>134958096

no, they are the risk reward of the entrepeneur

want to reap them, put your lazy ass on the line and see how it feels

>>134964911
>>134965175
commie lites should be hung by their innards on billboards
>>134965143
not true if you know what your doing
>>134965216
im by definition homeless but i live in my office

>>134965143
Yes the only successful companies in the world are McDonalds and Walmart there are absolutely zero small companies in the world and certainly none with thin profit margins that's just insanity.

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>>134964911
osama bin laden told me to break up the infighting

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>>134958096
OP you are fucking right!

Why don't you just create your own company then? Just go ahead! Pretty sure you'll have a lot of profit to pay to you co-workers.

>>134959364
Better and new material are investments in capital, purchases which can only be made with a profit.

>commies still can't refute Ayn Rand

> “The machine, the frozen form of a living intelligence, is the power that expands the potential of your life by raising the productivity of your time. If you worked as a blacksmith in the mystics’ Middle Ages, the whole of your earning capacity would consist of an iron bar produced by your hands in days and days of effort. How many tons of rail do you produce per day if you work for Hank Rearden? Would you dare to claim that the size of your pay cheek was created solely by your physical labor and that those rails were the product of your muscles? The standard of living of that blacksmith is all that your muscles are worth; the rest is a gift from Hank Rearden.

>>134958096
No, profits are defined by the amount revenue exceeds expenses. Wages fall under the category of "expense," therefore profits cannot be wages by definition.

>it's been 60 years and commies are still btfo by a geriatric Jewish pharmacist

> “Every man is free to rise as far as he’s able or willing, but it’s only the degree to which he thinks that determines the degree to which he’ll rise. Physical labor as such can extend no further than the range of the moment. The man who does no more than physical labor, consumes the material value-equivalent of his own contribution to the process of production, and leaves no further value, neither for himself nor others. But the man who produces an idea in any field of rational endeavor—the man who discovers new knowledge—is the permanent benefactor of humanity. Material products can’t be shared, they belong to some ultimate consumer; it Is only the value of an idea that can be shared with unlimited numbers of men, making all sharers richer at no one’s sacrifice or loss, raising the productive capacity of whatever labor they perform. It is the value of his own time that the strong of the intellect transfers to the weak, letting them work on the jobs he discovered, while devoting his time to further discoveries. This is mutual trade to mutual advantage; the interests of the mind are one, no matter what the degree of intelligence, among men who desire to work and don’t seek or expect the unearned.

>>134965454
>using a vpn to get yous after starting a shit thread
what are you sliding, juden?

>"b-but she went on social security to reclaim the money taken from her by the state"
not an argument, sweetheart

> “In proportion to the mental energy he spent, the man who creates a new invention receives but a small percentage of his value in terms of material payment, no matter what fortune he makes, no matter what millions he earns. But the man who works as a janitor in the factory producing that invention, receives an enormous payment in proportion to the mental effort that his job requires of him. And the same is true of all men between, on all levels of ambition and ability. The man at the top of the intellectual pyramid contributes the most to all those below him, but gets nothing except his material payment, receiving no intellectual bonus from others to add to the value of his time. The man at the bottom who, left to himself, would starve in his hopeless ineptitude, contributes nothing to those above him, but receives the bonus of all of their brains. Such is the nature of the ‘competition’ between the strong and the weak of the intellect. Such is the pattern of ‘exploitation’ for which you have damned the strong.

>>134961791
>So it's fine to live off other peoples' work just because your ancestors made some smart investments.
Yes, you fucking kikecommiefagnigger what's wrong with my children benefiting from my hard work? That's one of the main reasons people bother to work and create wealth.

>>134963626

>lets just give away everyone's money after they die

seriously though, imagine unironically being a Marxist in a world where Marxism was categorically btfo decades before you were born

>“Such was the service we had given you and were glad and willing to give. What did we ask in return? Nothing but freedom. We required that you leave us free to function—free to think and to work as we choose—free to take our own risks and to bear our own losses—free to earn our own profits and to make our own fortunes—free to gamble on your rationality, to submit our products to your judgment for the purpose of a voluntary trade, to rely on the objective value of our work and on your mind’s ability to see it—free to count on your intelligence and honesty, and to deal with nothing but your mind. Such was the price we asked, which you chose to reject as too high. You decided to call it unfair that we, who had dragged you out of your hovels and provided you with modern apartments, with radios, movies and cars, should own our palaces and yachts—you decided that you had a right to your wages, but we had no right to our profits, that you did not want us to deal with your mind, but to deal, instead, with your gun. Our answer to that, was: ‘May you be damned!’ Our answer came true. You are.

>>134965897
im not using a vpn, the other anons are just smart enough to know that I am allways right.

All communists need to die.

>>134961791
Why do retard commies always have their stupid ideas boil down to disowning your children? I want to work for my children, give them the best life I can. It's my sacrifice, your a filthy mother fucker for looking down on them for my hard work. If you never had that father, be that father

>>134965019
Including savings in case of business hardships and business expansion?

What's your point anyway?

I'm a small business owner, profit is what I've earned through blood and sweat and what I use to make sure you can have a comfy enough life to be so bored you'll pick up retarded political ideologies just because they're edgy.

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Translation :
>I don' t know shit about any economic system expect the one that has failed almost anywhere

any thoughts, communists? I guess not. Huh

> “You did not care to compete in terms of intelligence—you are now competing in terms of brutality. You did not care to allow rewards to be won by successful production—you are now running a race in which rewards are won by successful plunder. You called it selfish and cruel that men should trade value for value—you have now established an unselfish society where they trade extortion for extortion. Your system is a legal civil war, where men gang up on one another and struggle for possession of the law, which they use as a club over rivals, till another gang wrests it from their clutch and clubs them with it in their turn, all of them clamoring protestations of service to an unnamed public’s unspecified good. You had said that you saw no difference between economic and political power, between the power of money and the power of guns—no difference between reward and punishment, no difference between purchase and plunder, no difference between pleasure and fear, no difference between life and death. You are learning the difference now.

it's weird how communists are so loud until they're confronted with the truth. Like cockroaches running from a light

> “Some of you might plead the excuse of your ignorance, of a limited mind and a limited range. But the damned and the guiltiest among you are the men who had the capacity to know, yet chose to blank out reality, the men who were willing to steel their intelligence into cynical servitude to force: the contemptible breed of those mystics of science who profess a devotion to some sort of ‘pure knowledge’—the purity consisting of their claim that such knowledge has no practical purpose on this earth—who reserve their logic for inanimate matter, but believe that the subject of dealing with men requires and deserves no rationality, who scorn money and sell their souls in exchange for a laboratory supplied by loot. And since there is no such thing as ‘non-practical knowledge’ or any sort of ‘disinterested’ action, since they scorn the use of their science for the purpose and profit of life, they deliver their science to the service of death, to the only practical purpose it can ever have for looters: to inventing weapons of coercion and destruction. They, the intellects who seek escape from moral values, they are the damned on their earth, theirs is the guilt beyond forgiveness. Do you hear me, Dr. Robert Stadler?

A worker is there oen little enterprise

They sell their labour and skills

They sign contracts with companies, selling them their labour/skills in exchange for money. If the company uses that labour/skill to gain more profits the worker is not entitled to them, only what is in their contract.

If you hire a landscaper to build a drck, does he get to reap the rewards of his labour and do BBQ cookouts on your deck? No, once he is gone he leaves. If you lease a vehicle from a car lot and then act as an Uber driver, is the lot then entitled to part of your earnings from your vehicle?

Let's look at this from the reverse. The claim is that the company contracts you for labour....your labour generates profit....so you are entitled to those profits. The reverse is....a company signs a contract with you for you labour and pays you a wage....that wage feeds, clothes and shelters you (and your family)....does that then mean the company is thus entitled to more of your labour than previously agreed upon because it made you morr able to work? Is the company entitled to the labour of your children because their wage made them possible?

You are entitled to your contract. Don't like it? Negotiate for a better one or move on

>>134959364
>The business's owners are it's employees

Not even partially correct. Not in a legal sense, nor in a philosophical one

The employees come into the existing business under a simple premise - do work, and you'll get paid for it. by accepting a wage, the employee surrenders any right to claim that his employment implies ownership in the business. the trade for his time and effort is done when he leave the door with his paycheck in hand.

>>134965143
Look you stupid little cunt.

Co-ops exist; in fact, the dean of my law school wrote the model Corporate rules for the formation that's been adopted by 10+ states in the last 5 years. The fact of the matter is, regardless of your idiotic and pedantic "never been tried" theories is that incentivization is what runs rational behaviors, and co-ops/worker owned businesses that do not prioritize profit for the purpose of dividends do not last. These are the words out of the mouth of the guy who wrote the rules for this stupid little concept that you have a third grade understanding of.

Go ahead and look into the failure of farming co-ops past the 5 year lifetime. You'll see how often your "fair share" bullshit results in wasted resources because of a lack of structure.

Not even memeing, no socialists make it through either economic, law or engineering degrees. They can't deal with the concept that incentives drive behavior, private contract is an inherent aspect of humans above killing each other, and that analytics can be used to prove such matters.

Get fucked or git gud, leech.

still nothing? I guess it turns out that once you take away their pathetic arguments, all commies have left is the threat of physical destruction of those they disagree with

> “But it is not to him that I wish to speak. I am speaking to those among you who have retained some sovereign shred of their soul, unsold and unstamped: ‘—to the order of others.’ If, in the chaos of the motives that have made you listen to the radio tonight, there was an honest, rational desire to learn what is wrong with the world, you are the man whom I wished to address. By the rules and terms of my code, one owes a rational statement to those whom it does concern and who’re making an effort to know. Those who’re making an effort to fall to understand me, are not a concern of mine.

> “I am speaking to those who desire to live and to recapture the honor of their soul. Now that you know the truth about your world stop supporting your own destroyers. The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction to give it. Withdraw your sanction. Withdraw your support. Do not try to live on your enemies’ terms or to win at a game where they’re setting the rules. Do not seek the favor of those who enslaved you, do not beg for alms from those who have robbed you, be it subsidies, loans or jobs, do not join their team to recoup what they’ve taken by helping them rob your neighbors. One cannot hope to maintain one’s life by accepting bribes to condone one’s destruction. Do not straggle for profit, success or security at the price of a lien on your right to exist. Such a lien is not to be paid off; the more you pay them, the more they will demand; the greater the values you seek or achieve, the more vulnerably helpless you become. Theirs is a system of white blackmail devised to bleed you, not by means of your sins, but by means of your love for existence.

>>134959364
>Better equipment and new material is an expense not profit.

this is also false, maintenance and consumables are an expense, replacement equipment of equivalent make is a capital expense. those are considered unavoidable and are taken against revenue

New and better equipment is capital reinvestment, not an expense, as a decision must be made to do more than merely replace the existing equipment, thereby going beyond the budgeted and expected expense of the equipment's replacement value. . this is by definition an investment, and is taken against profit, not revenue.

>>134958096
You didn't make that.

>>134958096
Workers agree to the wage they're offered. If you think you're worth more to the market, ask for more. Or get a reality check.

>>134963626
Fascism is the answer to all of your problems.

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>>134967159
>capital expenditures versus consumable expenditures

My nigga

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>>134958096
>company makes no profit
>company goes under
>workers make no more wages
>everyone starves

Gotta love communism

>>134958096
why
did
she
type
it
like
this

I don't refute this. To an extent. People should be paid for the volume and difficulty of their work.

Theoretically the guy at the top of the business should be earning a fair bit more than his employees because he should be doing more, faster, harder work.

These days they just hand off most of their job to other people for peanuts and still keep a huge profit. The wages taken out of the wages of other more important employees.

Laziness and greed are the qualities you'll find in most of the people sitting at the top of most large businesses and corporations.

>>134958244
> reducing the workload

Hahahahahaha

>>134967961
would you change tires by hand or want to use a tire changing machine

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Take a look at this graph... (from Page 9 of https://www.levyforecast.com/core/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Mean-Reversion-and-other-Misconceptions-about-Profit-Margins.pdf)

Profits and wages go up together in expansions and go down together in recessions.

>>134958096
If you want a setup like that, you'll also have to owe money if the company fails.

>>134958096
Without profit there is no point to the risk or effort so the workers must look elsewhere or starve so it is necessary.
I do not agree with paying workers so little they have to rely on food aid while CEOs get multi-million dollar bonuses, though.
Pure communism is shit because 'The State" owns the means of production, AKA "The wealth. The workers share the poverty. It does not at all fit Marx' model.
Pure capitalism is shit because the people at the top want to keep as much for themselves as possible and the workers are kept poor, but starve more slowly than Communists tend to.
Socialism being a compromise between the two works best when the people are committed to giving much (in taxes and labor) but getting much in return (quality education and infrastructure).
When you shift the demographic with immigrant populations that have no civic duty to move things forward, but only concern themselves with what they can get out of the system,
any of these three systems of governance will go into decline.

*JEW FOUND*
DO NOT ENGAGE IN ANY ACTIVITY WITH MONGREL AS IT MAY INFECT YOU WITH ITS JEWRY!

>>134958096
Well why the hell would anyone start a business if they weren't going to profit.

>>134968540
Self reply. Sorry.
Looking over my own comment, I realized this:
immigrant populations
They don't have to be immigrants, just worthless.

>>134958096

Marx's labour theory of value is naïve and ignores the concept of marginal utility.

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>>134968257
>compensated
dont you mean paid for there services.

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>>134958096
>be boss
>make annual income the same as yearly profits
>technically no profits
>by this logic workers are paid their fair share of wages

NOICE

>>134958096
Why don't workers just do it themselves then? Is it because they lack the intelligence, interpersonal skills and organizational skills? Why yes it is!

Get fucked brainlets, it's what nature says you deserve.

>>134958096
No profits no progress

Wow as if you guys fell for this classic Australian bait thread, really is summer around here.

>>134969030
Sure... if that's how you want to say it... The main point is the graph clearly shows profits are not simply money wrested from the working class as implied by the OP

>>134969663
communist sympathizers deserve to be impaled or crucified depending on what is cheaper at the moment or what they pay extra for in the execution at a private stadium

>>134958096
Said like someone that has a negative net worth.

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>>134958096
What do I win?

>>134958096
Jew tricks don't work here, keep trying though with your inbred insane twisted mind.

>>134969894
a free hellicopter with fees to your family

>>134958263
>Muh economic growth

This meme again....

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>>134958096
Reminder that there is literally nothing wrong with genociding the capitalist/ruling/upper class

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>>134958096
>profits are the unpaid wages of the working class
Lol no wonder communist countries economies suck dick.

>>134970205
>>134970188
ohhh im rich thats terrible i provide jobs therefore im terrible

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>>134970205
Nothing wrong with genociding the bourgeois intelligentsia that doesn't work either.

>>134970053
Kek. You got a train with your name on it waiting for you.

>>134958096
it's like saying all the savings of the working class should be given to the state

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Capping executive pay and dividing what's left over among the workers would make almost no difference to them whatsoever. Each share of the spoils would be minuscule and they would have do find new executives. Would you run a large company for $120,000 a year?

Companies need to profit so they can take risks and survive short term failures. I agree there's a point where profit sharing should kick in, and it's much lower than what we see today. Ideally the workers should receive company stock as part of their wages.

>>134958096
>Do X, For Y dollars
>Okay
>Does X
>Gets paid Y dollars
>UNFAIR UNFAIR!!!

>>134970413
it wont matter ill pay the guards to treat me the best there buddy youll be suprised where bribes can go for

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>>134970492
Seems you forgot to mention the part that if you don't do x for y dollars you starve, friend.

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>>134970533
>buying off a man with an iron heart
Godspeed anon

>>134970993

I wonder if this poster has ever been on food stamps, or more likely, mommy and daddy do alright.

>>134971342
my great great grandpa did the same it doesnt change a whole lot

>>134970305
>pretends all rich ppl provide jobs

if you suck as a human being it doesn't matter how much money you have, it won't protect you
money doesn't mean shit
you think just having a wad of imaginary money instantly means you are intelligent or something, but then you post and we can all see that money didn't make you intelligent at all.

>>134971517
i never said it made you smart it gives the power to do what you want when you want it doesnt matter if i see it as worthless or you it matters if the buyer or seller sees it as high in value

>>134970993
As someone who didn't pay a cent for food fo a whole year to prove a point, that's a lie.

>>134960737
oy vey

>>134958096
>patuwotwc

wut

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>>134958096

>>134958992
i love stupid comments with no back up. the faggot at home eating snikkers cant survive under "capitalism" its social safety nets that keep him afloat

>>134958096
This is such a stupid, uneducated comment. Companies have to reinvest, serve their shareholders, etc.

>>134958096
wow that really rustled those shills into motion

>>134958096

profits are the rewards for risk and leadership. when you fuck at work, you dont take down the company with you. I do. I dont get time off, not really. I cant go get drunk not on vacation. I dont get to be sick.

Start your own company dipshit nobody is stopping you

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>>134959364
Honestly if you are an artist and spend more on supplies that you make off your craft you're just bad. Went through traditional arts and all the fucking hippie faggots that couldn't draw for shit just blew money on expensive textured paper and PRUFFESHIONAL pencils/brushes/paints

PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION IS COMING!

>>134958096
so i should run a business?

>>134958096
>people are equal meme

>why don't we all just open our own businesses

>>134958096

the profits of an entire factory should go to uneducated average brained retards capable only of pulling levers up and down

a-ok

>>134958096

not all additional value is created by laborers. in fact, laborers produce so little value in terms of profit that you could say wages are the stolen profit of the upper class

>>134958096
saged for faggotry, but as far as refutation goes it's pretty simple

without profits going into the pockets of the top 1-10%, there factually is no industry, no job expansion, no prosperity for anyone.

this is why socialism creates starvation and poverty.

it sounds good in rhetoric, to morons and retards and plebs, but in actual economic practice it is disaster.

but hey, it leads to a more helpless and easily subjugatable population so it makes many of your elites and joo masters very very pleased

>>134958096
>tfw you know OP is purposefully making baits to reinforce right-wing thinking
>feelsGREATman.png

>>134958096
Sure.

Automation.

>>134958096
Good. Who cares about subhumans anyway?

>>134958096
Businesses aren't charities you want to use their machinery their floor space their equipment their market contacts.

>>134958096
>"hey i need labor"
>"hey i can sell you my labor"
>'ok how much?"
>"uhhhhh $20 an hour"
>"shit senpai i bought all this equipment and i gotta pay it off in a month plus i gotta pay my mortgage and expand my business, how bout $10 an hour?"
>"uuuhhhhh $12.50 and you got a deal"
>"alright heres a contract, read it and sign it if you accept the terms, you'll sell your labor to me for $12.50 as long as you like until you quit"
>"sounds good to me senpai"
>hand shake
>
>ancom autistically screeching in the distance

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>>134958096
No, profits are the fair reward for the business owner who risked his capital. No wonder (((communism))) fails all the time if you take away the reward.

>>134958096
check this out, left wing retard :
We need the proffits to replenish the capital, upgrade and expand, hire new workforce, innovate, pay our debnts and whatever is left goes to the risktaker who can go bankrupt tomorrow.
Most company shares are worth <$500 so you can easily spend a part of your income to buying the means of production anyway.
TLDR : neck yourself

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>>134960737
Oy vey, remember the 10^6,000,000

>>134959261
Nope, he is now paid for 3 hour of work and fired if he doesn't work that hard.
Which will allow the "boss" to fire him and hire women and children for a quarter of his salary.

>>134958096

some, not all