/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL

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>Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property | Lew Rockwell
https://mises.org/library/open-borders-are-assault-private-property
>Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal | Lew Rockwell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wZjdEl9F8
>Nations by Consent | Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/11_1_1_0.pdf
>Natural Order, the State, and the Immigration Problem | Hans-Hermann Hoppe
https://mises.org/system/tdf/16_1_5.pdf?file=1&type=document

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name one successful libertarian society
i'll wait

>>134889476
Celtic Iceland

>>134889413
Why'd you butcher the pastebin?

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When are we offering free heli rides to all commie leafs?

>>134889740
Details?
>>134889899
There are less communists here than you think.

>>134889740
It's my paste nigga. I play it fast and loose.
>>134889899
Now anon.

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>>134890086
>Details?
Iceland had a libertarian-style polycentric legal system. Probably a few books on it, certainly it's a widely used example of the success of such a system.

>>134891535
>/pol/'s right-wing literature downloads
Where would this be?

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>>134892285
The link is dead and I haven't found a replacement, however all of not most of Hoppe and Rothbards books I shill can be found at libertarianright.org/reading as posted in the OP

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>>134892790
>Prenup
10/10

>>134892696
Thanks. :)

When I debate people of the State exists, or not, I usually compare it to religion (most young people in Denmark are atheists.)
It usually goes:
>the state doesn't exist
>b-but government buildings and employees!
>are churches and priests the sole proof of religion/God?

How would you explain the non-existence of the State to a religious person?

>>134893992
The state does exist. Does it not? Abstract as it may be there are real institutions and people who impose their will on others that we refer to as the state.

>>134894282
>that we refer to as the state
Yes, we refer to it as "the State," but that doesn't prove that the State exists materially (that's what I'm arguing.)
Only the individuals, e.g. police officers, politicians, etc. exists, but the State (which they say they represent) doesn't.

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>>134894623
Do you mean the mysticism of 'for the State' or 'for the Greater Good'? Obviously the state exists, but this sort of higher meaning of society and state often used by anti-individualists like fascists is pure bollocks.

>>134894623
I think AnCaps get trapped in the "individuals only" mindset, while I cannot deny that the state is not an individual entity or that "collectives don't exist". it's also undeniable that individuals act differently when they're involved in these collectives and that their individual actions can be shown to be motivated by a central or group interest.

You can say slavery doesn't exist, but the relation of the master and slave is very real.

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>>134894757
>Do you mean the mysticism of 'for the State' or 'for the Greater Good'? Obviously the state exists, but this sort of higher meaning of society and state often used by anti-individualists like fascists is pure bollocks.
No really. I don't think the argument "for the greater good," is a legitimate reason to violate the NAP.
But I also disagree that the state exists materially. It only exists as a concept (or as a relation, as >>134895093 pointed out.)

>>134895311
Not really*

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>>134889476

Name one successful AUTHORITARIAN society. Exactly leaf, they all crumple because people don't like being told what to do.

>>134895611
They last long enough for them to claim it a success. Monarchies did pretty well. Though they're less intrusive than modern authoritarian states.

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>>134889476
Early America
Roman Empire in times of peace

>>134896279

They did, for a while. But the moment they stepped to far. the people would always revolt (EX: French Revolution, American Revolution, etc.)

Also, the second the industrial revolution came along and boosted the quality of life for the average Joe, most people started demanding more and more. Voting rights for women, sewage systems, Etc. So, regardless, in the modern world I think that since we've all gotten a taste of a life of luxury, we would hate to regress back to anything even remotely authoritarian. (except for the SJWs; those people are corupted beyond belief).

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>>134889413
Heads up: the Mises Institute is doing live lectures as part of their "Mises University" event.

It's streaming on youtube. I'm sure some of you will be interested.

>>134889476
Well, we know that capitalism works, and we know that highly decentralized societies work. Anarchocapitalism is just that taken to its logical conclusion.

There's a few very interesting historical examples of anarchocapitalist principles at work. There's the Wild West (not actually that wild, it was pretty peaceful there). There's Celtic Ireland, which had competing chieftains and a king whose only political function was to coordinate military defenses. There was also the Icelandic Commonwealth, which also had competing chieftains, and the only central authority was a gathering that the chieftains attended, but there was no king at all. Somalia is sometimes named, although it still has tribes and states, like Galmudug and Puntland, so I wouldn't count it (although it does demonstrate that sometimes, a central government sucks compared to just letting niggers be niggers). There was another society in Southeast China, a book was written about it but I haven't read it. And there's Pennsylvania from 1681 to 1690, which had no functioning government at all and things went wonderful.

>>134896970
The monarchy before the French Revolution wasn't so bad. It was actually nicer than the post-revolutionary period for decades to come. Same with the October Revolution.

The American Revolution is something else entirely. The people were estranged from the king of a country that didn't want them to begin with, but they still had a pretty good life. It was more of a war for independence and not so much a revolution, and it absolutely cannot be compared to the French Revolution. The French were proles throwing shitfits because they dreamed of utopia, the Americans were just whigs wanting their independence. Alexander Hamilton even wanted the President to be an elected monarch for life.

>>134897859

1.
>It was actually nicer than the post-revolutionary period for decades to come

Yes, but that's because their entire movement was co-opted by Napolian, who (as we both know) started multiple wars of territorial expansion before a European coalition but them in their place and razed the cities (twice).

2.
>Same with the October Revolution

In general concept (down with the power and instate a new one; yes), but the outcome of the october revolution restricted people's economic and social rights, where as the outcome of the French Revolution was decriminalizing homosexuality, legalizing divorce (hey, i never said all of these were good), and making slavery illegal.

3.
>The American Revolution is something else entirely

I don't agree with that. The colonists were being exploited by the UK (in terms of taxes, regular home invasions with no court order, inability to speak critically of the Crown, you get the point). I find it very similar to the French Rev. even though their outcomes diverge on a detailed level (by that i mean, for instance, the French ended slavery, the US didn't, etc.)

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Question for non hoppes
If commies move next door and start preaching their message on your covenants "common" ground
Do you remove.?
If a members sells his propery to a nigger that start polluting and slinging crack. Do you remove?
I say yes

>>134901476
Copypasting from a response I wrote a couple nights ago:

The contract says "We all agree not to sell to niggers or felons. We all agree to not freeload on defense insurance etc. This contract must be transferred to the next owner. Breaking this contract is tantamount to theft of $10k from each other signatory."

If someone breaks the contract, which he has every right to do, he will have to pay damages. Underwriters will secure the contract for a certain fee, maybe $50 per party.

Insurance companies will try to get people to sign such contracts because it increases property values, reduces crime etc for free. Yes, for just the cost of the paper. A house is more valuable if there's a guarantee of good neighbors.

So in addition to heavily disincentivizing the sale, even if this crack smoking nig moves in, homeowners are compensated for the damage he's doing to the community. If you want a tighter guarantee, just pick a community with a larger bond, although the underwriting will be more expensive. But that's a price you're willing to pay.

>>134902017
He is a nigger. he wont pay. Assume that for some reason there is no local insurance company to meditate, he accepts no meditated resolution and continues

>>134895611
>Name one successful AUTHORITARIAN society. Exactly leaf, they all crumple because people don't like being told what to do.


singapore.

In >>134890584's pic related, which order should one read?
Should I finish the columns ("Ethics & Law", "Statism Critics" and "Economics") separately, or the rows ("Novice", "Beginner" and "Proficient")?

>>134902450
You misunderstand. The original owner is prevented from selling. It's the original owner who has to pay the bond for breach of contract. He can certainly roll that into the asking price of the property if he wants, although this puts him at a disadvantage in the market.

Also, in the case that the original owner refuses to pay the fee, as I said
>Underwriters will secure the contract for a certain fee
Do you understand the role of the underwriter?
You wouldn't join a covenant community if their covenant isn't secured would you?

>>134903027
I usually read by what interests me. If you want a proper education I'd read one of each column. I don't know how well read you are. If you've read nothing start with "anatomy of the state" it's short and easy reading.

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Reminder that this is live
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=howO1xHIe2U

Had a peak viewership of about 140. Come hand out.

>>134899041
>Yes, but that's because their entire movement was co-opted by Napolian
The French Revolution was degenerate to begin with. It was based on the ideas of guys like Rousseau and de Sade, the former a hopeless romanticist and neurotic, the latter a criminally insane sexual deviant, rapist and . Mob violence went rampant, up to three-hundred thousand people were killed before Napoleon even entered the scene, prisons were emptied and the prisoners mercilessly slaughtered, innocent people were tied up and thrown in the river, "infernal columns" (that was their actual name) raped and murdered with impunity... And for what? Like I said, people weren't doing better after the French Revolution. They got dragged into the Napoleonic Wars, conscription was introduced to Europe, the media were censored, and living standards decreased for a good fifty years compared to pre-revolutionary France. Even socialism can be traced back to the French Revolution, as well as other ideologies that deny the sanctity of human life.

And yes, the Americans were exploited. Not as bad the Britains themselves, though. The geographic distance alone made sure that it couldn't hit the Americans as bad as the Britains, yet they rebelled and not the Brits. Although I like the War of Independence, it's a just war if there ever was one.

>>134903858
>Come hand out

...I mean... come HANG out. I'm not a commie. I swear. pls no physical remove.

>>134903611
Right now I'm reading "Against the State," but I've also read "Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature" and "Chaos Theory." Those are the only "ancap" books I've read.
But I've definitely look into "Anatomy of the state," thanks for the tip.

>>134889413
>Murray (((Rothbard)))

>>134902850

>Singapore
>established by the British as a colony.

Any coincidence between British rule and high development? Oh wait, probably shouldn't be asking a nation who's only colony is now the top 20 for infant mortality...

>>134904066
>An honorary white, savior of Western liberty and civilization.

>>134889413
Lolbertarians, hate communists but worship Jewish economists.

Idiots.

>>134904568
Agreeing with arguments doesn't equal worship.

>>134903923

Fine, I'll give you that point.

>Not as bad the Britains themselves, though
What exactly do you mean by that?

How does /lrg/ feel toward Rand Paul?

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>>134904568
You will know the vengeance of goyish capitalism.

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Any thoughts on Chapo Trap House? It is a collection of progressive writers who made a podcast where they mock anyone to the right of Bernie. They seem funny enough but their analyses are generally simplistic

>>134904868
Can never replace Ron. Cucks quite a bit, but is good on policy.

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>>134904922
>Watching leftist podcasts.

>>134904568
We hate communism for what it entails, and so we hate communists. We like what free market capitalism entails, so we like the Jewish economists who espouse the free market. Kys

>>134905243
I try not to let myself get blindsided by other group's criticisms of my view.

>>134905701
This.

And that's damn hard. Like you color btw.

>>134905843
thx.

That podcast is sort of easy to listen to since half the time they are ripping on obama/hillary/jeb/bill kristol which I am totally on board with

>>134889413
libertarians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSHlVLRawIg

>>134905641
>we like the Jewish economists
It's you that needs to kill yourself

trusting the Jew, very stupid.

>>134905701
I guess I'm jaded, I just assume leftists need to be eradicated.

>>134907272
So do ancaps.

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>>134889740
>Celtic Iceland
>>134896901
>Roman Empire in times of peace

Y'all need to learn some history

Also, remember to TREAD.

P.S. No capitalist society has ever worked. Especially for its people.

> But muh early mercantile companies
South sea bubble
> Colonial america
Was full of many a slave based quasi-aristocratic mercantile republic that failed (several times).
> Modern US
Is leading the world towards massive ecologically - induced death
> CHYNA
Is not capitalist. Large companies there may look it, but are still tied to a very long-winded plan. The hundred year strategy will be the finishing kick to capitalism's teeth.

>>134907851
Read Mises.

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>>134907726
You can't eradicate me if I physically remove you first.

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>>134907726
And especially "natsocs" "fascists" and all the rest of em. A free world is a Green world.

>>134908161
Lol are you for real?

>>134907272
yeah that is my default half of the time, but I try to keep up with their current nonsense so I never am at a disadvantage in a debate

>>134908100
You'd probably have to physically remove your blinkers and the carrot in your arse first

>>134908003

Ah yes, Mises. The son of a "court Jew" that would become himself a "corporate Jew" (note I'm not pissing on jews here - just the pets of first aristocratic courts and later corporate boardrooms that rode their masters coattails to academic proeminence).

>>134908721
The man that destroyed any form of leftism and collectivism, yes.

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>>134908318

That flag doesen't mean what you think it means. Green anarchy is not anarcho-primitivism. It's a technologically driven, ecologically based direct democracy.

>>134908852
>Jew
>Man
Pick one.

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>>134906620
If you found out toilet paper was invented by a Jew, would you stop wiping your ass? While we put thought into our beliefs, you run around screaming "KIKE! KIKE!" the moment you see that Jews are involved in something, while not even understanding what that something is. Gas yourself, faggot. You have the critical thinking ability of a child

>>134908100
>>134909263
Guys, don't feed the shill.

>>134909263
Never happen, Jews never invent anything just steal ideas from white people.

So I've tried reading Human Action a few times and keep finding it too dry and abstract. Is there a good site that breaks down this book in a more digestable way?

>>134909804
>Australians
>White
I am lmfaoing at you "mate".

>>134909263
Your beliefs are selfish, childish and total unrealistic and all you deserve is ridicule.

You are not worthy to engage with seriously.

Go and jerk off on your picture of Ayn Rand again Jew lover.

>>134910042
Try reading "Man, Economy, and State" by Murray Rothbard first. That'll introduce you to praxeology and give you an understanding of Austrian theory. Then try reading Human Action

>>134910042
>Is there a good site that breaks down this book in a more digestable way?
There's a book that does it - Choice by Murphy

>>134909804
>>134909804
Just because uncle Hitler said that that's so, doesn't make it so.

>>134910075
>Your beliefs are selfish, childish and total unrealistic and all you deserve is ridicule.
As selfish as forcing people to give up their labor and money at gunpoint?
>You are not worthy to engage with seriously.
Neither are you, but your head is too far up your ass to understand that
>Go and jerk off on your picture of Ayn Rand again Jew lover.
Not even a fan of Ayn Rand. Kill yourself, nigger

>>134911018
>As selfish as forcing people to give up their labor and money at gunpoint?

Lol and this will never happen under AnCap hey?

>>134911018
What did I just fucking say?

>>134911018
Capitalism is slavery, without government to restrain it it would enslave or kill everyone.

That's what governments were created for, to protect people from predatory selfish greedy cunts with no empathy like you AnCaps.

>>134911246
It won't be worshipped as a virtue as you currently do.

>>134911523
Nah man. It's good for a bump and debunking shit memes.

>>134911541
>Capitalism is slavery, without government to restrain it it would enslave or kill everyone.
Funny how its the government that's doing exactly what you think corporations in a free market would do.
>That's what governments were created for, to protect people from predatory selfish greedy cunts with no empathy like you AnCaps.
And look at how well that's turned out. Governments that take deprive us of our liberties, conscript us for avoidable wars, and steal from our pockets clearly do care about us. The Satan-worshiping baby-fuckers and Jews in the government clearly do care about us. Put a bullet in your brain, buddy

>>134912078
>Put a bullet in your brain
That's not allowed without government permission.

>>134912189
Kek.

>>134911565
Beat your own strawman kikd.

You never asked about my position, just because I don't like AnCaps it doesn't logically follow that I am a statist or approve of state crime.

Reminder, the state has become a tool of capitalism.

See "The Creature From Jekyll Island"

>>134912078
That would be the government that was corrupted by capitalism and turned against it's people.

>>134912233
Why would I ask you about your position when you already said you are not going to engage us seriously? Fuck off. Idiot.

>>134912233
>See "The Creature From Jekyll Island"
For the last time: CENTRAL BANKS ARE INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE FREE MARKET.

>>134912373
What if capitalism got corrupted by the government and it turned against itself?

>This whole thread
>>>/lgbt/

>>134912373
>That would be the government that was corrupted by capitalism and turned against it's people.
What the hell are you talking about when you say "capitalism"? You leftist idiots like to throw it around as though it's definition is "anything that isn't communism" or whatever the fuck. We're talking about the free market here, not your distorted view of capitalism which include oil wars and other dumb shit

>>134889476
Hong Kong.

>>134912626
>A literal faggot

Sorry fashy capitalists, it's just bantz

>>134912481
Central banks , or domination by banks are the definition of capitalism you retard.

>>134912718
I'm not a leftist, I'm not a selfish spoiled little rich kid either.

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>>134913015

>>134913015
Welcome to abolish central banking general, idiot.

>>134913015
The free market you fuck. The free market. Not capitalism. Did I say capitalism? No. I said the free market. Learn to read you aussi fuck

>>134913118
>I'm not a selfish spoiled little rich kid either.
Neither am I. I just understand that a free market would improve my life far more than any government program would

>>134913172
Did you ever stop to think about those words put together like that?

"free market", since when was anything ever free at a market?

What do you find at markets?

Merchants.

You don't beat the Jew by becoming him.

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>>134889476
Name one successful society of any kind, kike.
They all crumble because of rejection of natural law.

>>134913505
>"free market", since when was anything ever free at a market?
Irrelevant
>What do you find at markets?
>Merchants.
A free market would allow a shit ton of more goys to thrive
>You don't beat the Jew by becoming him.
The Jew feeds off the government. The Jews have power because of the government. The central banks that they use to enslave us with endless debt exist because of governments. Corporations can grow to behemoth sizes because of governments. Corporations can have monopolies on resources because of governments. Fuck off with your bullshit, idiot

>>134908100
sneks are cute! cute!

>>134913914
Seeing the world in terms of nothing but economics just shows how deeply Jewed you Ancaps are and just how unaware of it you are.

Money is the Jew's God, just as it is for AnCaps.

>>134914324
Economics is about human action. You don't know shit about real Mon Eye.

>>134908100
Cute! CUTE

>>134914324
Economics is more important than you think. If you understood economics, you'd understand this.

>>134904066
If your sole criticism of Rothbard (pbuh) is centered around his Jewishness, then you lack an argument.

>>134914714
>>134914627
No, you just can't see how Jewed you are

You are just proving my point, thanks.

The Devil tarot card is worth studying.

>>134915106
What objections do you have about Rothbard's economic arguments?

>>134908721
>>134906620
>it's another episode of "muh Jewish economists! What do I win?"
Economics is centered around acquisition of resources.
There's one people of the world that are good at acquiring resources, and they have a certain prominent facial feature.
They flock to the study of such acquisition like flies to shit, of course they're going to be overrepresented in such fields.
Still, I prefer Hoppe.

>>134915268
All of them.

>>134909804
Right, never invented anything but capitalism is totally a Jewish plot to make the white man rich and powerful due to selective environmental pressures... or something.
No, they do invent stuff. Like communism, for instance - unlike capitalism, which mostly points to men like Adam Smith and Fréderic Bastiat, a Scot and a Frenchman, communism is tied to (((Karl Marx))).

>>134915482
I asked you, about your objections (e.i. counter arguments,) not the amount of arguments you oppose.

>>134915306
>>134915268
>>134914714
>>134914627

Man walking along a road in the countryside comes across a shepherd and a huge flock of sheep. Tells the shepherd, “I will bet you $100 against one of your sheep that I can tell you the exact number in this flock.” The shepherd thinks it over; it’s a big flock so he takes the bet. “973,” says the man. The shepherd is astonished, because that is exactly right. Says “OK, I’m a man of my word, take an animal.” Man picks one up and begins to walk away.

“Wait,” cries the shepherd, “Let me have a chance to get even. Double or nothing that I can guess your exact occupation.” Man says sure. “You are an economist for a government think tank,” says the shepherd. “Amazing!” responds the man, “You are exactly right! But tell me, how did you deduce that?”

“Well,” says the shepherd, “put down my dog and I will tell you.”

>>134915816
Still waiting for the objections, I'd like to have my limited knowledge on economics challenged.

>>134915816
>government
Good joke, otherwise.

A true story:
“I heard this from one of my professors. To protect him, no names will be revealed. This professor was about to get married. He went to the jewelers to get a wedding ring for his fiancee. The jeweler told him that he can have the inside of the ring engraved with the name of his fiancee for an additional $20 (remember, this was a LONG time ago). He said, “But that will reduce the resale value!” The jeweler was aghast. He said, “How can you say such a thing. You are a butcher!” “No,” replied the professor, “I am an economist”.”

>>134916157
>limited knowledge on economics

good there is still hope for you.

don't read economics, read physics, economics is fantasy fiction.

>>134916193
Yeah saw that and should have taken it out.

>>134916198
lol
It's like say: "we don't want to get married, it'll complicate things if we ever break up." The couple is just stating, that they probably don't want to commit to anything important.

An economist was standing at the shore of a large lake, surf-casting. It was the middle of winter, and the lake was completely frozen over, but this didn’t seem to bother the economist, who stood there patiently casting his lure out across the ice, slowly reeling it in again, then repeating the process.
A mathematical economist came sailing by on an ice boat, and pulled to the shore beside the surf-fishing economist to scoff. “You’ll never catch any fish that way,” said the mathematical economist. “Jump on my ice-boat and we’ll go trawling.”

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>>134916424
But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>134916358
A rejection of the study of human action is a rejection of the study of reality. It is like traversing a dark maze and finding a flashlight, but breaking it to pieces because you don't like technology.

>>134916604
No you idiot it's saying that the economist is a heartless unfeeling monster.

That you don't get the joke just proves my point about how Jewed you are, thanks again.

>>134916358
>don't read economics, read physics, economics is fantasy fiction.
I don't really enjoy physics. I mostly like "logic" (e.g. programming and philosophy.) Economy just comes with reading anarchism.

>>134916867
Still waiting for the objections, that is, if you actually want a debate, and not just screaming "Jew."

>>134916695
Could have but didn't, do your worst.

Since when was economics anything like a realistic study of human activity?

>>134917325
economics is literally a study of human action.
>>134917312
>trying to make liberalism cool.
It's not gonna happen.

>>134917887
Oh really?

Where does religion, biology, geography and all the other missing bits economists ignore or pervert come in then?

Just kill yourself you stupid spoiled heartless little worm.

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>>134917887
>trying to make an extremely immoral and parasitic society cool
Not gonna happen bud.

>>134917887
Thanks for proving my point again BTW

Ancaps are materialistic and complete Jewed to the core.

Humanity > Economics

A mathematician, a theoretical economist and an econometrician are asked to find a black cat (who doesn’t really exist) in a closed room with the lights off:

- The mathematician gets crazy trying to find a black cat that doesn’t exist inside the darkened room and ends up in a psychiatric hospital.
- The theoretical economist is unable to catch the black cat that doesn’t exist inside the darkened room, but exits the room proudly proclaiming that he can construct a model to describe all his movements with extreme accuracy.
- The econometrician walks securely into the darkened room, spend one hour looking for the black cat that doesn’t exits and shouts from inside the room that he has it catched by the neck.”

Why was astrology invented? So economics would seem like an accurate science.

>>134918396
I'll ask one more time before I go to bed: what are your objections to Rothbard's economic theories? You said you opposed all his arguments, so you must have a handful of rational counter arguments, right?

>>134889413

I'm wondering why any of you think your opinions are "politically incorrect"? There are so many areas in which you bitch about taxes around the internet, and yet you choose an explicitly nationalist board? Why?

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statists can't deal against ancaps

>>134918177
Did you just pull that assumption out of your ass or what?
When did any economist deny the affects of religion, biology, geography on human action?
>>134918396
Economics is Human Action.

listen bud, you can call me an inhuman no emotion savage all you want. I KNOW I have more SOUL than you. So whats your compassionate solution to letting people interact without coercion or violence?

>>134918335
yeah just like Marx invented a new category of property to justify bullshit so does Curt.

Q: How many Chicago School economists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. If the light bulb needed changing the market would have already done it.

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>>134919101
>There are so many areas in which you bitch about taxes around the internet, and yet you choose an explicitly nationalist board? Why?
I'd say for the unique counter arguments, if any actually shows up.

Q: How many conservative economists does it take to change a light bulb?
A1: None. The darkness will cause the light bulb to change by itself.

A2: None. If it really needed changing, market forces would have caused it to happen.

A3: None. If the government would just leave it alone, it would screw itself in.

A4. None. “There is no need to change the light bulb. All the conditions for illumination are in place.

A5. None, because, look! It’s getting brighter! It’s definitely getting brighter !!!

A5. None; they’re all waiting for the unseen hand of the market to correct the lighting disequilibrium.

>>134919101
"politically incorrect" refers to anything opposing leftist state narrative (originating from the soviet goverment)
I don't think Voluntarism or Nationalism is edgy or in poor taste, I quite like both alot obviously. Thats why I'm here. /pol/ has always been a board of libertarians and nationalists. It probably always will be. I want it to stay that way.

We don't decide what is politically incorrect. (((They do)))

>>134919645

When push comes to shove, and I do mean, WHEN push comes to shove, would you march with national socialists, fascists, etc against the left? Which are you first? I guess that's my main concern with libertarians. For example, I don't believe in freedom of speech in the slightest. I think there should be an official religion. I think homosexuality should be a criminal offense. Are you against these sorts of things?

Experienced economist and not so experienced economist are walking down the road. They get across shit lying on the asphalt.
Experienced economist: “If you eat it I’ll give you $20,000!”
Not so experienced economist runs his optimization problem and figures out he’s better off eating it so he does and collects money.
Continuing along the same road they almost step into yet another shit.


Not so experienced economist: “Now, if YOU eat this shit I’ll give YOU \$20,000.”
After evaluating the proposal experienced economist eats shit getting the money.
They go on. Not so experienced economist starts thinking: “Listen, we both have the same amount of money we had before, but we both ate shit. I don’t see us being better off.”
Experienced economist: “Well, that’s true, but you overlooked the fact that we’ve been just involved in $40,000 of trade.”

An economist is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

AnCaps exactly.

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>>134919931
Damn right I'd march against the left. If its us or them the choice is clear.

I don't believe in an abstract "freedom of speach" thats liberals. I think religion is good. Homosexuality bad. I just think that Natural Law will punish degenerates plenty and that the state doesn't need to enforce eugenics or welfare.

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>>134892790
You mean this one?

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>>134919931
>would you march with national socialists, fascists, etc against the left?
If I could only choose between right-wing authoritarianism and left-wing authoritarianism, I'd choose the former.
I'm only against immoral acts (e.i. rape, murder, theft and assault,) this can be boiled down to the NAP. Since neither sexuality, speech or "freedom of" religion violates the NAP, I could not morally use force to stop anyone from performing those actions (although some of them might disgust me.)

>>134920522
>I just think that Natural Law will punish degenerates plenty and that the state doesn't need to enforce eugenics or welfare.
I'm assuming this would happen as well. When degenerate women can't get married with the State (welfare,) they need to fix them selves if they wish to have a man, or their genes will die out.

>>134912078
if you actually study the numbers from the early 1900's you will realize coporations were pretty much fucking everyone out of their money and women and children were working for pretty much slave wages
"A large number of women of eighteen years of age and upward are
employed at very low wages; it is indisputable that a great part of
them are receiving compensation that is inadequate to meet the neces-
sary cost of living"
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924001727316/cu31924001727316_djvu.txt

Grow up faggit libertarians. life before government regulations in the market was fucking hell. stop reading mises and rothbard and read the actual data from the time period. its all free on archive.org..

>>134919179
>invent a category
He didn't anything, an individual making a claim in a court attempts to.

>>134921613
*invent anything

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>>134921613
please tell me more of what Curt considers property outside of physical property. and how he demonstraits it to be so.

>>134921608
The commie faggot is right about this.

>>134922428
And you're not a commie faggot?

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>>134920873
>When degenerate women can't get married with the State (welfare,) they need to fix them selves if they wish to have a man, or their genes will die out.
Nature is fascist.
God bless us.

>>134922602
stop being a fag and actually do your own research. There are many sociology books written during that time period and statistics. all the data suggest that the free market wasn't working. The truth hurts but the "free market" was fucking everyone.. but then again you just gonna ignore them and keep worshiping fag economists like Rothbard

>>134922602
No, I hate them even more than Ancaps.

>>134922700
>Nature is fascist.
It's just evolution. Women want a man, that can provide resources for her children. A high IQ man can provide the best resources for her, so he would be a probable partner.
But in the welfare society, no matter what man the woman can marry (or have children) with any man, because she can always run to the state for the resources. This breeds low IQ people.
This doesn't explain degeneracy per say, but I'm assuming lower IQ people are more degenerate than high IQ ones.

So, in it's essence, welfare is anti-evolution and anti-nature. Most of this theory is from Molymeme btw,

>>134919931
We are against any organisation with the power to mandate such things, yes. However if you wanted to start a cucked commune, city state or something where you get told what opinions you can express, what you can/can't put your dick into, and what god/s to pray to, fine with us as long as everyone explicitly agrees to those terms. Somehow, I don't think you'd get many takers, perhaps that's why the idea of freedom scares you so much. Good ways of living are like good moves in chess, people keep rediscovering them for themselves cuz they make sense, they don't need to be mandated, This is why liberals are authoritarians, they are insecure just like you, I wouldn't march with either of you fags.

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>>134922700
I've been thinking about it and I think that is what truly makes what we call "right-wing" and "left-wing". Chaos and Order.

whether anarchist or statist the left wishes to bring a gibsmedat frenzie of chaos and plundering. The right winger whether anarchist or statist demands a strict order to the universe, and that scares the shit out of leftists. It scares them that they will be put in their place no matter how much they piss and whine.

>>134923462
that's why I am for free markets.

>>134923749
Could free market (or market-anarchy) work simultaneously with fascism? Free market would imply no taxes, so the governing body, would need to fund itself (e.i. without taxation.)

>>134895611
I'll go ahead and list some unusual suspects. Napoleonic France (until it was forcefully brought down by the British + friends and even THEN there was widespread support for its return), pretty much any incarnation of Russia, Singapore as this anon mentioned >>134902850

>>134899041
The Revolutionary War could've easily been a victory if it wasn't for the French and having to ship people over half a continent. Give the UK, Americans and French modern day tech and UK would come out on top easily.

Also being razed by someone else does not count as 'collapsing'. There was no widespread revolt against Napoleon. He was so fucking popular, some leaders like Metternich wanted to keep him on his throne as to avoid another uprising.

>where as the outcome of the French Revolution was decriminalizing homosexuality, legalizing divorce (hey, i never said all of these were good), and making slavery illegal.

You do know this was mostly because the nobles did as they pleased, right? Like, had massive homosex orgies while hunting down revolutionaries who weren't even fags, they just used it as an excuse to burn them at the steak. I swear when this is brought up, same as Cromwell banning Christmas (he did this because once again, Christmas for nobility meant rampant hedonism), people have no idea what they're talking about.

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>>134923575
Let people organise themselves and an natural order will occur.

>>134924186
For me for sure, I am not a statist as I mentioned before human interaction without interference will lead to the best results and raise our society as a whole.

>>134924591
Oh, I just saw your flag and assumed it was your ideology, my bad.

>>134924186
I think market would lead to natural hierchies that would be indistinguishable from what we know as fascist and monarchical systems, and the would be a good thing.

>>134924936
*The free market
*and that would be a good thing.
I fucked that up.

>>134924870
It is my ideology.

>>134924870
see that is the reason, because I support you guys and I think it is the best way in the longrun.

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>>134925145
>>134924870

>>134924936
>I think market would lead to natural hierchies that would be indistinguishable from what we know as fascist and monarchical systems, and the would be a good thing.
"Natural central control," that seems really unnatural. Every atom has independent reactions/relations with others, so central control, would seem like the opposite of nature.

>>134925364
>see that is the reason, because I support you guys and I think it is the best way in the longrun.
Wait, so you are not a statist, but you are a facist? How does that work?

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>>134925392

>>134925691
>Wait, so you are not a statist, but you are a facist? How does that work?

Mental illness.

>>134925691
>Wait, so you are not a statist, but you are a facist? How does that work?
as explained before loyality, hierarchy, authority, justice doesn't require a state, just property rights.
I also had the opinion th ebest way would be a laissez faire state but with strong military and police, which only cares about protecting life and property, but since my gov just opened the boarders I cam e to the conclusion no state can give you full security.

>>134926064
>as explained before loyality, hierarchy, authority, justice doesn't require a state, just property rights.
Right, so just private property ownership. You can commit any violent act on your own property, so that's a-okay. But would you impose rules on others property or person against there will?
The book "Chaos Theory" gave a pretty good argument for private defense (police and military) and private law (aka contracts.)

>>134926064
Exactly just requires the distinction between means and ends, a libertarian and a fascist could agree on the ends of society, but they would disagree with the means of getting there. People often make this mistake with libertarianism.

>>134925691
I would think there to be a plurality of these formations, not governed by a central authority unless they chose to do so.

>Wait, so you are not a statist, but you are a facist? How does that work?
I've never considered myself a fascist but I believe I understand the same thing he does by a different name. In the absence of the state people will follow their natural tendencies and form a deeply hierarchical social order. there would not be many small properties where everyone has a peice but rather one property owner who holds a large peice of land he will rent the usage of to others, these people would be voluntarily choosing to live here and likely paying to do so. As these people do not own the property they do not dictate the laws, but at very least the proprietor would have to satisfy enough residents to stay in buisness. the people would otherwise secede or revolt.

>>134927100
The point would be that the "fascist" owns land and people voluntarily choose to live on HIS property under his protection and his law. Not talking about breaking into someone elses property and commiting violent acts.

>>134927314
>As these people do not own the property they do not dictate the laws, but at very least the proprietor would have to satisfy enough residents to stay in buisness. the people would otherwise secede or revolt.
Or the landowner could sign a contract with the renter, stating that no "law" can be created, without the renters agreement.

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This thread needs more free helicopter rides.

>>134927100
Depends if some cummunists would together and seek power I would say if the majority of the towns population sees them as a thread they should just expell them like in the old days of europe.
Or for example if a guy rapes his daughter every day and people are aware of this they should step in.
Otherwise as everyone keeps his shit private I wouldn't care, because I want the same for me.
>>134927154
I agree with libertarians on the means to get there.

>>134927614
If the landowner were to breach that contract the people would have to secede or revolt, right?

>>134927605
also this.

>>134927605
literally describing feudalism

here's a good for you retards to read and its free
its a scholary written book over 800 pages written by two college professors. The book is a classic

Economic history of Europe, by Shepard Bancroft Clough and Charles Woolsey Cole.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b3861127;view=1up;seq=13

you all lack basic understand of the economic history of Europe.

libertarians are so fucking cringy sometimes

>>134928171
Violence would be justified to get reparations for a broking contract. So yes, they would "revolt," so to speak.

>>134928111
>Depends if some cummunists would together and seek power I would say if the majority of the towns population sees them as a thread they should just expell them like in the old days of europe.
Violence from a 3rd party to enforce the NAP would be justified, that would just be self defense (mostly.)

>>134928596
>literally describing feudalism
yeah. you think you're blowing my mind?
>>134928737
I agree. Violence would be justified.

>>134889476
Only spic country that isn't a total shithole.
It's fun to see the lazy and single teenager mothers crash and burn without welfare.

>>134928596
In market anarchy, people would own property morally, unlike feudalism. They could own or rent, up to them.

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Question for Hoppeans.

Why do you believe that physical removal is okay? If degeneracy is truly bad and anarchocapitalism is the default state of mankind won't degenerates slowly die off on their own?

We don't need violence to get rid of degeneracy. Who gives you the right to take a commie on a helicopter ride if he's a commie on his own land? Who gives you the right to decide who deserves a helicopter ride and who doesn't?

>>134928111

This. Communism needs to not only be crushed, but the communists be made examples of. Torture would be necessary.

>>134929358
>>134929260
If they are communist on their own property, I'm okay with it. A voluntary communist commune would be moral (but I don't think many people would live in it.)

>>134929557

What if I took that commune and successfully fucking destroyed it? Would you be angry? wwyd?

>>134929702
Yeah, I probably would. Because some fucking retard would probably call everyone a commie and start killing people for fun.

>>134929260
>won't degenerates slowly die off on their own.
Yes, thats why I don't support state enforced morality or eugenics. The problem isn't that they're still alive at this moment. The problem is that faggots and pedophiles do not belong anywhere near my kids. They need to be removed.

as for the justification..
a group of people could pool together and buy a large chunk of land to raise their families and start a community. as it is their property they set the rules, be it a "no degenerate fags and violent niggers" policy, no outsider has the moral authority to force their ways onto their community. its that simple.

>>134929702
If a nigger runs breaks into your hated neighbor's house and murders him and his family, would you just shrug it off because you really didn't like the guy?

Of course not, because that nigger has demonstrated himself to be willing to violate the NAP at a second's notice. There is no guarantee that he won't pose a threat to you as well.

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>>134929557
>>134929702
you're both assuming communists can form any sucessful commune without first stealing from capitalists. theoretically possible as it may be, it has never been the case, ever.

>>134930184
Also assuming communists will be happy to remain peacefully on their commune and keep to themselves. Communism is a violently expansionary ideology, they cannot stop by definition. At best, we can assume those on the commune are just hippie peaceniks, not "real" communists.

>>134929702
You would violate the NAP of others property, and your claim on the commune would be illegitimate.

>>134930184
>you're both assuming communists can form any sucessful commune without first stealing from capitalists. theoretically possible as it may be, it has never been the case, ever.
This is the realistic situation, and therefore no communistic commune would be morally created. And if they were to have stolen the land, I would not be angry if >>134929702 took it over (as long as you gave it to their rightful owners. If these owners, and their kids, are dead, it would be reverted to unowned property, and you could take it.)

>>134889476
Compare Botswana and Namibia to Zimbabwe
Compare Hong Kong and Japan to China

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>>134930507
>>134930517
Good. So we're in agreement that communism in practice is incompatible with property rights and would have to be destroyed if we were to maintain a libertarian social order.

>>134889476
Confederate States of America until the (((north))) defeated them

>>134930184
republican Spain, when confronted by the Americans about the Anarchists taking control of the ford plant, reimbursed them. They typically did that out of politeness.

>>134931066
>Good. So we're in agreement that communism in practice is incompatible with property rights and would have to be destroyed if we were to maintain a libertarian social order.
Only if they first violated the NAP, then all action against them would just be self defense.

>>134890584
Ayn Rand was not ancap,just a russian girl who hated the shitty country where she born(ussr) and she became libertarian,but we give her importance cuz is a girl

>>134889476

successful societies are homogeneous ones... ask soon as the others come it all gets fucked...

and for faggots who want to say any city currently in the west is successful with savages all over the place... realize we are all witnessing beasts feast on a decaying corpse of what the west was 75-200 years ago.

>>134909804
I hope you don't have a polio vaccine then

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>>134931277
Which we have been determined to be an inevitability.

>>134931066
>communism in practice is incompatible with property rights
Ideologically consistent communism, yes. But if you have a group of people calling themselves "communists" and living in a commune on a justly-acquired piece of property, it would be a violation of the NAP to attack them unless they aggressed, or threatened to aggress, upon normal people.

There is a difference between physical removal of communists from your own property, and shooting watered down communists on their own property.

It is most likely that the only form of communist-like ideology that would survive in a world dominated by free societies would be a cucked pacifist version, because more hardline commies would long have been killed in self defense.

>>134929260
>Who gives you the right to decide who deserves a helicopter ride

Simple,he violated the NAP(yes,trying to seize my means of productions is violating it)

>>134931863
The implication of communism being that they don't ever legitimately own property as their ideology dictates that they seize yours.

I don't care what you call yourself. If you "seize means" you'll get everything you deserve. So to speak.

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>>134903858
So I was watching the Mises Institute lectures today and there was this one outspoken memer with a decent channel I thought I'd share.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFmAi_TPJxU

>>134932843
Brent Ancap is pretty good.

>>134931863
doesn't a commi commune also lower the value of your property, when they life in huts next to you and have sex orgies in the dirt.

>>134932938
Man I wish we had an Ancap version of Murdoch Murdoch, although I love them anyway. I guess that's just a market failure.

Anyways, fun talking with you all, bed time.

>>134933672
isn't murdoch thelibertarian of the 3

>>134933977
Yeah Murdoch the character is a lolbertarian who, out of necessity, has become a naziboo.

I'm just saying I'd like to see a more thematically libertarian series that sort of deals with the internal debates among ancaps and bridges the divide with other factions of the alt-right.

>>134934812
especially since the fagbook libertarian pages mostly post open border refugee shit.

>>134934812
>>134935148

Yes please more edgy AnCap content. Reddit teir AnCaps must fucking go.

>>134935148
>>134935148
Yeah I hate those faggots. It's a really bad optics problem that we need to solve.

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>>134889413
Is this accurate?

>>134933071
Property value is not something you own. It is simply what others think your property is worth. They are free to appraise it as they wish, just as the hippies are free to have sweaty mud orgies on their own property, even if it neighbours yours.

The real question is, how did they afford to buy a respectable piece property in a respectable neighborhood in the first place? It's a fantasy scenario.

>>134936879
If I were to pick a meme fetish for people square it'd be financial domination.

>>134937527
Purple*

>>134937362
>The real question is, how did they afford to buy a respectable piece property in a respectable neighborhood in the first place?
maybe their parents died and they inherited the property.

>>134931128

How was the CSA libertarian and also a slave empire?

>>134938435
for everyone other than slaves it was a libertarian utopia.

>>134937648
Okay sure. But that's nothing you can't solve by adding another clause to the covenant as I describe it here >>134902017 and here >>134903062

Really the problem with commies is that they reject a consistent theory of property rights that is invariant across different people. The philosophical basis of counteraggression is the fact that a person who explicitly rejects the property rights of others has no rational basis to defend his own property rights.

Thus, a commie is on really thin ice because his very ideology is a threat of aggression.

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Bump

Why don't you guys seed FURTHER READING? I'm crawling over here.