what went wrong?

Nothing

we are not strong enough to protect our grand sister France

The biggest TL;DR of NatSoc Germany is that a War Economy is a ticking time bomb.

>what went wrong
>posts invasion plan that worked out perfectly

>>134872445
I meant what went wrong for france but alright

>>134870716
the french were weak and the germans were strong

>>134872508
Their generals were still using the manual for WW1

>>134872508
They trusted Belgium.

>>134872602
This.

>>134870716
They forgot that there's no oil or mangan in France.

>>134870716
the maginot line was designed for wwI type warfare

anti horse and shit, it could not stand up to blitzkrieg tanks not even the slightest you dumb uneducated roach

>>134872651
>>134872602

So were the Germans.

The German victory in the battle of France was practically all Guderain's doing. He pushed his spearhead on and on and on so relentlessly in a way that nobody expected, he frequently moved beyond his own objectives and didn't wait for the infantry to catch up to him.

The French had a number of opportunities to cut off the spearhead but key persons in their chain of command were incompetent and dithered, or didn't seem to grasp what was happening until it had already happened

>>134872742

What's funny is when the allies went after Germany the germans manned the line and the allies had a hell of a time dewal with it.

>>134872802
France was ready for another trench war. They underestimated tanks, blitzkrieg doctrine. If you look at some battles, the French managed to win a couple of times, for example, the 4th DCR, a tank division under the lead of De Gaulle. Even if it's was pointless in the end.

>>134870716
Essentially communication between from forces was dildos because older generals refused to adopt to changing technology. So, you literally had couriers for messages to tell generals in Paris that shit was going down in the Ardennes.. and no one believed them because it was such a weird scenario.

Once France took the field, a lot of their tactics didn't reflect the reality of new warfare. For instance, tanks in the first world war were often used as infantry escorts as a reflection of the fact that they moved at 4-12mph where as Germany explored the idea of massing armor. Likewise, with competition between French officer cores and poor communication combined arms tactics were garbage.

tl:dr; France was fucking around.

>>134870716

So many people get this wrong. The Maginot Line did exactly what it was meant to do, funnel German troops through the low countries - France wanted to avoid another war fought on its territory like WW1. However while the French and the BEF went north to fight the German forces invading the low countries another Heeresgruppe with most of the modern tank and motorized forces and massive air support went in a line from Luxembourgh/southern Belgium->Sedan->Channel coast and trapped a chunk of the allied forces in Belgium.

>>134872354
Wasn't on war economy till late 1943

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>>134872802
>Germans invented an entire new and modern warfare style that is still being used today
>WW1 manuals
burger education at work again

>>134872802
lmao no, germans had the most tactically and strategically advanced military at the beginning of ww2, allies eventually adapted and they started losing.

I blame jews

>>134870716
Why didn't the french stay behind the maginot line and encircle the obvious spearhead groups that would pish through belgium? You don't even need to appreciate mobile warfare to understand the logic of that, it's as simple as cannae.

>>134872802
Nah, they completely overhauled their shit for round 2

>>134873120
This. Except for some generals, like De Gaulle. On WWI and WWII, France was one war late.

>>134870716

Turns out that tanks got a bit faster and trench warfare wasn't going to be a permanent fixation. Weird, huh?

>>134873187

>the germans used the Schlieffen Plan again only with better weapons.

>>134872626
Nope. Try again. It's called tanks that can knock over trees.

>>134873252

1. Nobody thought that sort of spearhead would or could come from where it did
2. When they got news that it was happening, they dithered for too long and poor communication meant they lost any opportunity to cut it off

>>134873252
Because no one suspected that tanks and other mechanized equipment would make it through the Ardennes. It was believed to be impassable territory for Panzers. Manstein sure proved them wrong. In fact if I'm not mistaken, Hitler also had some input on the decision of where and when to attack.

>>134873492
poo in loo

France was very weak politically. After being conquered they basically joined the Axis willingly and put up a fierce resistance against the Free French. There must've been a large fifth column in the country.

>>134872273

BLAME BELGIUM!
BLAME BELGIUM!!!!!

They're not even a real country anyway.

>>134873524
>Hitler also had some input on the decision of where and when to attack.

I think he heard the idea and put it forward as his own, something like that

>>134873492
They were anticipating an attack through belgium, which is why they attempted to take a posisition there. The fall of eben emael put in end to that. They knew an attack would go through belgium, the smarter thing to do would be to encircle the front of germans as they move into northwest france. You don't even need to understand tanks, it's as simple as the prussian kesselschlacht.

>have massive, heavily fortified area full of munitions and men
>surprised when the enemy just goes around it because it's only a few miles long

being french must be its own hell

>>134873611
Petain was the only hope due do the fact he was the one behind Verdun during WW1. Politicians were also pussies btw. (Like nowadays)

>>134872602
And in WW1, they went about it as if it was Spain in 1823

>>134872354
Nice meme faggot

>>134873611
Not really. Petain was supposed to be arbiter of a neutral France with Vichy as the administrative center. Legally speaking Petain still held all authority over all of France but had to allow the Germans occupation of Metropolitan France and the Atlantic Coast. France wouldn't allow Germany to use it's navy either and had orders to scuttle the fleet if the Germans attempted to take it by force (The British still bombed it though) Technically Vichy France never joined the Axis but still retained a puppet like position towards Germany. Regardless if there was any fifth column it came from the large amount of Communists in France (No surprise there)

>>134873755
Being retarded. Didn't Mrica shoot leafs on a shitty japanese island ?

>>134870716
First, the western front wasn't the real war.
The eastern front is where 90% of everything happened and the only reason Russia was able to push through was because of all the supplies the allies were shipping to Russia.

>>134873902
Didn't you surrender?

>>134870716
Globalist "Lebensraum" Socialism did.

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Hitler should have invaded Russia first.

>>134872273

>don't want to extand maginot line
>abandon military alliance with France
>switch to neutrality
>gets invaded by Germany again

This is why Belgium shouldnt' exist tbw...

>>134874020
>latvian intellectuals

>>134873995
If you take the fact that the current french governement are the successor of the FFF, no , we didn't. Unlike Petain gov.

They built a wall, immigrants went round it.

Learn from history people! They'll be eating beans and rice in Washington by sundown.

>>134873679
No I don't think that's it. Hitler was definitely the one to make the right decision of when to commence the attack. Hitler's war decisions weren't as hopeless as everyone thinks. Many of them including this one and the decision to dig in the Russian lines towards Moscow actually worked out for the better. His decisions in the later war however were marked by a combination of putting too much trust in incompetent people (Like Goering) having a WWI mentality of not giving up an inch instead of retreating to lure enemy troops in an pincer around them later and bad information from an Abwehr (The intelligence service) where almost everyone from the top - down was actively giving him poor or completely false information.

>>134874047
>Britain enters the first world war and loses hundreds of thousands of men, as well as beginning the destruction of their Empire, to protect Belgium
>Now Belgium are the biggest proponents of the EU and want to punish the UK for leaving

Do they have any sense of loyalty at all?

The eternal waffle

>>134873458

Are you just saying that because both plans involved invading France through Belgium?

>>134874022
Why should he have started a two front war there and then when that is the exact thing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was supposed to avoid. Additionally, if France and Britain had not declared war when they did, then Germany's inevitable war with the USSR would have come much sooner.

>>134873892
You have to accept that France as a nation resisted less than other European nations, many of whom fought to an unconditional surrender.

>>134874242
Stalin already had his invasion plans set up, Hitler just beat him to the punch. If he hadn't invaded then the entirety of Germany would be red along with the rest of Eastern Europe.

>>134873458
but they did literally the opposite

>>134874022
Would have also lost
USSR had both a massive industry and a crapload of manpower

>>134870716
USA intervened after a false flag and Germany lost

>>134874278
Yeah I'll admit that. But the French weren't really motivated to begin with and many Frenchmen didn't understand why they had to die for the German city of Danzig.

>>134870716
not enough loops

>>134873458
The germans pretended to do the schlieffen plan then encircled the army that headed up to stop them

>>134874307
I agree. I expect though that Germany's war against the USSR would have come maybe in 1940 if the allies had not declared war on him in 1939.

You need a little more of a broader context of what happened prior to Nazi occupation.

WW1 damage: During the Interwar period the northeastern part of France was still completely fucked from the first World War, and WW1 German Reparations were being used to rebuild that infrastructure.

2. The citizenry fucking hated each other.

You had a coalition of Communist and Socialist France parties forming the "Popular Front" and Far-Right Fascist groups that entertained the idea of re-establishing a monarchy and rioted against parliament on the 6th of February in 1934. Antifa groups were established after that day because the commie cocksuckers were scared of a Fascist Coup, but little did they know that when you live in a country where everyone is either:

A. walking around in wheelchairs from the first WW1 period
B. Commie that hates his Fascist brother
C. Fascist that hates his Commie brother
D. Not even in France at the time and instead are located in one of their various colonies

When a unified Third Reich walks up to your borders and you try using WW1 tactics on them you get curb stomped into the ground.

>>134874411
Basically. Really, Germany would have won the Eastern Front if not for the incompetence at Stalingrad.

>>134874342
This is a picture of the Second World War

>>134870716
the french had a plan to extend the maginot line to the sea and it was pretty impressive really high tech of its time also very expensive the only thing that was more expensive that comes to mind is Albania bunker program

>>134874450
That's a pretty good summary. Although the leadership of the French army as not suited for dealing with Blitzkrieg tactics either. Germany was very lacking in tanks and mechanized equipment compared to the French but her leadership was much better.

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>>134870716

Two things, both attributable to Hitler not being the genius he thought he was.

1. circled in blue. the nazis had no plan and no fleet to invade great britain. Goering's vaunted luftwaffe was going to conquer the british

2. russia, winter, etc.

If he had destroyed Great Britain when they were practically defeated, he would have had one front against russia and control of the mediterranean which might have freed enough resources to take moscow and perhaps succeed there. The usa would not have entered the war.

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>>134874330
Would it really have been fatal? I know Hitler said that bit about kicking in the door and "the whole rotten structure [..] crashing down". He obviously planned for a quick war against Russia too. Is that why? Like the USA vs Japan it was just a matter of the production capacity and manpower?

You gotta wonder how the Third Reich would have maintained control over all that land had they lasted.

>>134874047

Should've never let them get away. Those crafty waffles.

>>134874229

Yeah, should've built the line more north. If Belgium bitches well tough fucking shit.

>>134874450
Socialists in France sucked the cocks of Petain a lot. The SFIO was behind Petain during the parlement session. And the commies began to resist after the invasion of Russia.

what would of happened if russia had surrendered /the germs never attacked them and the burgers and bongs were attacking germany's A team in normandy?

>>134874467
Some historians, particularly German ones, don't completely agree that the war was over by Stalingrad. But again, the information Hitler was given was often incorrect and he placed too much faith in Goering to supply the sixth army.

>>134874705
Eastern armies on the Western front. They could have one the war due to the fact that the Eastern Front was costly and the reason for the fall of the Third Reich.

>>134874706
it was over far sooner than that when the germans ran out of reserves in really early of the plan the germans knew nothing about the soviet actual strenght they barely knew who was in charge

>>134870716

he should have stopped after france.

>>134874872
>>134874872
and "winning" for them meant repelling the attack right? what happens after that? do the bongs and the burgers try to attack from a different front? do they sue for peace?

>>134874976
>britain and france declare war on you
>soviets about to invade
>"he should have stopped after france"

>>134874631
Great Britain was not practically defeated. Nothing Germany could have done would have allowed them to land on the shores of England (Not that Hitler had much interest in doing so anyway) The British were still going strong and their navy was more or less an impenetrable defense. Additionally the RAF still dealt massive damage to the Luftwaffe and the support they received from the USA either meant Germany would have to bring America into the war or somehow stop Britain from receiving any kind of aid. It would take a naval and aircraft buildup of years to achieve that. Time was not on Germany's side. The USSR had her own plans to invade Europe by first letting the other powers tire themselves out fighting each other before 'liberating' the continent by turning it red. Better to strike on your own terms than allow yourself to be put on the defensive - especially a defensive you had no hope of winning.

>>134874652
The idea was to first keep the local ethnicities around. Ukrainians in particular but also the Baltic region saw Germans as liberators from Soviet oppression. Over time those protectorates would be settled by Germans until the natives became a minority there. Oh, the irony.

>>134874976

Wouldn't have mattered. Stalin was gonna invade at some point soon.

>>134874631

From the sounds of it the RAF was very near the end. The airfields were nearly all out of commission, and the English lost an excessive amount of planes and pilots. But when the Luftwaffe bombed London and focused on that they ultimately lost the air war.

At least this is what I've gathered from veteran interviews in documentaries.

>>134874652
We know that Hitler had no interest in controlling that much territory. He probably would have given it to fascist leaders from the respective countries and let them do whatever.

>>134874976
>>134875049
he should have stopped before poland the allies had no casus belli and that would be it the soviets would invade poland nobody really liked the soviets

Keep in mind historians are primarily split between two explanations for why the French Third Republic got BTFO which usually fall under:

1. Internal political/cultural strife and a feeling of malaise/melancholy/depression that ran through all French society

2. Shit tier military planning by The High Command and the piece of shit Dyle Plan essentially being a failure from it's very inception.

It's probably a mixture of both to be honest.

>>134875186
it really was not that was myth the germans overestimated their own airforce and underestimated the british one for example britain made more planes in one month than italy in a year

>>134875231
The secret addendum of the contract Britain had with Poland specifically stated that they would only aid Poland against a foreign invading power if that power was Germany.

>>134874976
He couldn't have. Mussolini declared war on Greece without his knowledge to prove Italian military prowess in the face of rapid German victories in Western Europe. Hitler didn't interfere until Commonwealth troops started landing in Greece threatening Hitler's oil supply in Romania. Yugoslavia joined the Axis for three days before a British and Soviet backed coup ousted Prince Paul and made the country join the allies. From there Hitler had no choice but to once again drive the allies from the continent.

>>134874901
I completely agree. The Abwehr informed Hitler that there were something around 30 - 50 divisions in the entire USSR and they incorrectly informed him of their positions. That's why he thought it would be easy. But he found just that many divisions in Bialystok, right on the German-Soviet border! But there was not stopping what had been started now.

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French didn't have enough children after WW1.

>>134870716
i recommend you guys look at the youtube channel Military History Visualized

>>134874660
>what are low water tables
>what is a huge engineering feat and a massive expense

>>134875032
The D-Day would have failed with Germans reinforcement. Supply would have been easier without the Eastern Front as a burden . Russia was too important for the Allies. I guess the war would have ended with a truce or a peace treaty.

>>134875231
Except that the Poles were slaughtering ethnic Germans and refused to at least give them back to Germany. Invading Poland was inevitable given their actions.

>>134875463
is that mylene farmer?

>>134875410
well at best they would not have a reason to fight germany

>>134872354
Someone didnt read enough. We BECAME a war economy as late as 42/43

>>134875546
really evidence for it? love the fact that holocaust was fake but poles killing germans was real

>>134875416
i could pretty much sum up the OKW reaction was like wtf we destory dozen of russian divisions were do they keep coming

>>134875231
The Soviets would not have invaded Poland in 1939 without Germany. One of the main clauses of the M-R Pact was that the two countries would attack Poland in tandem but Germany HAD to make the first move. Stalin outmaneuvered Hitler though and cited 'unpreparedness' as his reason for not attacking when Germany did and waiting two weeks thereby deflecting the world's attention to Germany as the sole aggressor. Stalin then moved in to protect minorities officially and claimed it wasn't a real invasion because the Polish government had escaped to Romania and therefore there was no Polish state legally to speak off. Stalin was a very sly politician and probably the smartest of all of WWII.

>>134874330
Germany wouldve shit on the USSR in the early stages of the war.

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>>134875633
>evidence for it
The corpses of civilian germans that were found in Danzig were at least 2 weeks old based on autopsies. Of course, the Poles claimed that they killed them in retaliation TO the invasion, which is questionable enough on its own.

Note that the Holocaust never had a single autopsy for any single supposed victim.
>pictured: dead germans

>>134875699
Precisely. I think it was von Kluge who said that 'when we destroy a dozen Russian divisions, another dozen rises up to take their place. The vastness of Russia devours us'.
>>134875633
You should read Hitler's Revolution by Richard Tedor. A new expanded 2nd Edition of his book was released in May this year. Very informative. And he sources all his information too.

>>134875633
Read "Christian Raitz von Frentz, A Lesson Forgotten: Minority Protection Under the League of Nations"

Polish Census data of Bromberg
1931:117k Germans
1939: 10k Germans

>>134875804
there are pictured of soupposed holocaust victims to why should i believe this ones over those ones? and those could still be faked to give them an excuse to invade

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>>134875897
>there are pictured of soupposed holocaust victims
Because it's pretty damn obvious that those are typhus victims in those images. No one is claiming that absolutely no one died in the camps, plenty died but due to typhus. The key thing here is that the Poles claimed that they weren't killing anybody, so therefore there shouldn't even be any corpses. Yet here they are.
>picture: one of the autopsies conducted

>>134875893
>>134875892
>>134875804
nerver mind actually always believed that was kinda bullshit

>>134875897
That's true, but just logically speaking, the allies found the 'Holocaust survivors' and documented them after they had conquered and occupied Germany. By contrast it the Germans in Poland were murdered two weeks before the German invasion then how could the photos be faked by them as a pretext to invade. Unless you are suggesting that the Germans made mannequins or used used makeup or whatever. Goebbels did play up the numbers of how many were killed by there is no doubt there was violence against the German minority in Poland.

>>134875372

The RAF pilots interviewed said they couldn't sustain their losses much longer.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWbOnyfusI0

At 21:10

>>134876108
yeah i kinda found it just now

>>134873034
the maginot line was largely deconstructed after nazi germany conquered france

>>134876147
here pilots perspectives can sometimes be wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM78_KqcrSY

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>>134870716
papa piere forgot to fortify our border.
the krauts simply repaited the shlieven plan and went around the fucking maginot line.

>>134875760
Hitler must have been mad as hell during those final days

>>134876496
>betrayed by commies
>betrayed by the brits you tried to make friends with
>attacked by americans who had literally no place in the war and were never affected by you
>attacked by the same commies who tried to launch an invasion on you but you beat them to it
>lose 12 years of progress because the kike bankers don't like your economic boom
>die knowing that you failed your country in restoring her glory and that she will revert back to Weimar tier marxist degeneracy in a few years
Anyone would be mad as hell after all the shit that Hitler went through.

>>134875892
>I think it was von Kluge who said that 'when we destroy a dozen Russian divisions, another dozen rises up to take their place. The vastness of Russia devours us'.

It was von Rundstedt, commander of southern front. He also did biggest kotel ever.

>>134876496
He really was. I'm sure you've seen the movie Downfall or at least the scene where Hitler rages or maybe a parody of it. Everyone in the bunker who lived described him as a walking ghost. But I think he was more sad at the very end then angry. As far as he knew, Germany was going to be annihilated (Based on what he had read on about the Morgenthau Plan or the Kaufmann Plan) and every German killed.

>>134870716
we didn't win the war

>>134876786
Yes, von Rundstedt the. Also what does Kotel mean if you don't mind me asking. I'm searching it up but all I'm getting are results for the Western Wall in Israel!

>>134876932
Kotel is russian for a pot. Military slang for encirclement. I was referring to 1941 battle of Kiev.

France is France. Do you really need an explanation?

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>>134873669
>They're not even a real country anyway.

>>134877041
Oh I see. Thanks for that.

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>>134870716
>what went wrong?

Frenchies still had their artillery disassembled in long term storage when germans rolled over the border

Its like they thought they had 6 months to mobilize or something

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>>134876807
Fuckin Kaufmann man.

>>134875463
actually the birth rate was going down scene after the Napoleonic wars

French defeatism, tactical inferiority, and strategic mistakes.

>>134877664
That's the one.

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>>134876147
The World at War is so kewl

>>134876328
It was always nazi intelligence that was the weak point

>>134873892
Vichy was not a puppet. Germany occupied the strategic parts of France but hitler never convinced petain to join the war, and couldn't force him because he wasn't a puppet.

>>134873187
Is that Guderian

>>134878679
Well when I say puppet, I mean that Petain takes a lot of ideological direction from Germany and pays for the costs of occupation and so forth. But yeah he wasn't a puppet in the sense that Slovakia or Croatia were.

>>134878933
It is

>>134879550
Why didnt the Germans turn paris into another Stalingrad?

>>134879525

Which was pretty merciful if you consider what the Allies did to us after WW2 and that France declared war and not Germany.

>>134870716
>>134873478

>>134873611

>Britain speaks about being a puppet
>deliberately became Americas poodle

lmao

>>134870716
Nothing. It worked as intended.
The Germans invaded through the Ardennes forest which was thought impossible.

>>134879803
The French declared Paris an open city. Under international law the Germans were not allowed to barrage the city with artillery. Basically the French surrendered Paris to protect its cultural artifacts. The German army marched in unopposed. Stalingrad on the other hand like every other Soviet city was a fortress city. In fact I believe the Russians had a saying towards the Germans that went something like: 'This is not Paris, you won't have a parade through here' or something like that.
>>134879940
True

>>134870716
They didn't nuked Turkey.

>>134870716
The frog fears the warrior.

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>>134880165

>declare war over irrelevant Poland
>get owned fair and square
>get treated very fairly by Germans, even half of your country is left independant
>LARP as Partisanz while killing most of the time other Frenchmen that dont agree with your idea of gommunist anarcho syndicalism
>greet invading nigger soldiers who rape your women and bomb your cities to rubble as liberators
>claim you defeated Germany
>shame woman who fell in love with a honourable German soldier
>dont do shit about French woman that fuck niggers right now

vive la france

>>134880285
No, i mean post d day.

>>134881000
Oh, if that's what you mean then Hitler actually ordered for the city to be destroyed but Dietrich von Choltitz, the General officer overseeing the occupation of Paris wouldn't follow through with the order. He loved the city too much.

France sat with it's thumb up it's ass not believing the war to be true and being fascinated with what was happening in Germany, and not in a million years wanting a repeat of WW1, so they didn't attack properly first despite declaring war.

They could have won the war in 1939 while the Germans were busy in Poland. 110 French and British divisions were held completely inactive against 23 German divisions. Even if they dreaded trench warfare and prepared for it, they still knew how to assault and had the best fortifications to fall back on if they had to.

They didn't have the stomach for this, but it was happening anyway

>>134881891

How did Hitler poker so well? How could he have known they wouldnt go in?

>>134880914
We made lots of mistakes during WW2. Not giving you the Jews was the worst.

But we'll rise again.

>>134881891
The Westwall was the determining factor here. Generals like Haldar had informed Hitler that the Westwall would last approximately two weeks without reinforcement. Hitler banked on three or four (The amount that was used to conquer Poland) The French and British were already preparing several plans, most of them involving fighting on Belgium soil, they were already in talks with the Belgium and Dutch High Command over strategy. Hitler was a gambler and lot of his gambles till 1939 payed off. He counted the French believing in the impenetrability of the Maginot Line and adopt a more defensive position. The speed of the German advance in Poland also shocked the allies who were rightly worried about the effectiveness of the German Blitzkrieg. And they were too afraid to do bombing raids for fear of retaliation. This was another gamble Hitler took and it this one worked out for the better.

>>134872802
so was your mamma

>>134881891

Not entirely correct. The French crossed into the Saar (a dozen or so divisions IIRC), pushed the Germans around for 9 days, and once it got close to the Siegfried Line it made a u-turn and went home to sit with their thumbs up their arses.

The French believed in the invincibility of their own Maginot Line, and I think they projected the same belief onto Germany's defensive line.

a fucking line

>>134881988

Hitler experienced a history of the other guys blinking first. When your opponents keeps folding one may become bolder and even reckless.

Look at the number of German violations of the Versailles and Locarno Treaties, and you'll see all these went unpunished. Germany kept achieving its objectives. It's hard to take an adversary seriously when it doesn't resist, and it may even embolden one to raise the stakes looking for greater pay offs.

>>134883432

>implying those treaties were just or fair

>>134883113
they forgot to make the line big enough and dude just went around it

>>134873041
The Germans expected another 5-year long trench war...
They didn't expect their new tactics to make sure an effect on warfare.

>>134878417
yes for example most of the german spies on D day were known to allies or double agents in all wars yes and based of that poor intel they made poor decisions

>>134875186

Germany had poor intel. It was bombing airfields, but not the ones crucial to Fighter Command. It was also bombing the radar stations, but didn't knock them out. Without decent intel the Germans reached some erroneous conclusions and shifted tactics.

>>134876807
He did speak a few times of it being a war of survival, they win or they will be killed by their enemies.
Would be absolutely crushing to watch everything you worked for and believed in fall apart around you and die thinking your people will be exterminated because of your attempts to help them.

>>134883564

I'm not implying fairness or unfairness. The parties signed agreements. Had the British and French attacked Germany in '33 for violations we may not have seen such an power Germany in '39.

If you don't enforce agreements (laws, contracts, etc), then the agreements are worthless.

That should a take away for anyone.

>>134874631
Unless Hitler had a time machine to un-scuttle the German fleet post-WWI there is likely little he could do to conquer the waves.

>>134884842
Yeah, pretty sad, especially considering what we got afterwards.

>>134872508
well make that more clear from the beginning
gj retard

Dunkirk

Saged

>>134884999
the allies probably would have not let them keep it or even a part of it so to scuttle the navy was probably a good move on their part

>>134885656
That's the point, it was an obvious move for the allies to scuttle the German fleet, no reason not to do it, and something out of Hitler's control. If he still had those ships bolstering the numbers building up a big enough Navy to beat the Royal Navy would be a possibility, but without it Germany is starting late to the party against the world's naval super power.

>>134885864
you dont need to beat it only tie it down a fleet in being the few ships the kriegsmarine had were modern and powerfull and tied down a larger force what really screwed them is the loss of all those destroyers in Norway also they could have completed the Graf Zeppelin share radar and engines and generaly plan with the Italian navy try to capture French ships

>>134886631
Hm, perhaps you're right, but I wonder if even then it would be enough to secure the channel.
If the Germans had a stronger Navy it's inevitable the Americans would have lent more Naval aid to the British, even before entering the war.

>>134886827
D day was hard enough for the allies with naval and air supremacy not superiority and they had experience with this kind of invasions already so i doubt the germans could have done Sea Lion