Capitalists will defend this

>expects Businesses to pay workers more
>will be the first to complain when people can't afford the inevitable price rise of goods to cover costs.

>>134759729
Should I:
>Pay some highschool kid/nigger who will probably quit or get fired in a month more
OR
>Invest in expanding your business

>>134759729
You have freedom to choose where you work.

Replace wages with profit sharing.

you mean attack this

yes.
I think she is idealistic and naive, but not wrong in principle. You should pay living wages. but you should above all pay a fair amount. And depending on the job that may not be a living wage. In general, no interference in the autonomy of the individuals in a market is a good idea.

Or you could get a robot to flip burgers for less than $8/h.

The employer needs you, you need the employer. If you ask for to much money he will replace you. If you do good work and he want's to keep you he has to pay more or you would leave.

You are not entitled to someones elses money.

>>134759729

The phenomenon of Capitalism is that it eventually leads to a form of communism, ie; universal income.

As my friend and I were discussing is that we're now in the stage of transition of moving from Capitalism to a Communist based market.

>>134760058
That's literally called "wages" you dumb fuck.

Wages are a representation of a person's life worth. Some people are just worth less.

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These threads are always funny because they attract the 17 year old ancaps, neets in basements, and college students in daddy dime who have yet to earn a degree but are experts on the subject.

making a man work full time for less than he can live off is by definition unsustainable.

(((capitalism))) is for the 3rd world. whites dont need to live like this.

>>134760378
universal income will destroy civilization and I don't think we are close to the point where we have to implement it.
Look at all the people who recive welfare for an extended periode of time. They are miserable and slowly killing themself because they have no purpose in life and don't have to work for their basic needs.
Capitalism will find a way to employ people in the furture even if there is no more manual or mental labour available.

>>134759929
Choosing from different tables to get scraps from

>>134761216
whites just commit suicide by slowly expanding the welfare state.

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>>134759729
>if you don't support my lifestyle, then you don't deserve to make money

>>134760854
t. sociopath

>>134761541
Wake up, it's reality

Life has never been fair

>>134760378
>a Communist based market.
Nice oxymoron.

>>134759729

Some dumb person (probably communist) wants to be paid more. Don't we all? Cry about it, that will help.

Also what is the definition of a 'living wage'
Kinda depends on how you want to live and how much you want to spend, now doesn't it?

If your skills and competence is really worth so little that you fear you cannot survive the wages they provide you, you should consider expanding your skills/competence.

Minimum wage jobs are "starter" jobs. One should be doing this when they are 15-17... In high school.. over the summers etc. Build your work experience from the bottom up. After high school, if you have two or three summer jobs where you show you come into work on time and on schedule, aren't a total asshat, then chances are you move up to a little bit better job that pays a bit better.
Being over 25 and still making minimum wage means either you are a horrible worker who doesn't show up or is the above asshat, or you never thought you were going to have to work in the first place. Either of these shows issues with YOU not with the employers out there.
Strive for better than minimum wage, earn it. Then its not an issue any more.
In reality, all you have to do is show up, on time, be nice, and work hard. Sure it is not easy, but nothing worth having ever is.

Isn't the real problem that people cling to jobs their should have outgrown ten years ago, then trying to convert their waiter position into something less awkward? I haven't met an actual employee that can't afford to house himself and eat properly.

>>134761589
Somehow I get the sense that you'd be whistling a different tune if you were at a disadvantage and someone was saying that to you.

>>134761794
I'm not on top of the world

If you don't accept reality, you'll never make any progress

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>>134759729
Business owners have more risks at stake than an employee. When an employee quits or gets laid off or is fired that's the end of it.

When a boss gets out of business he still has to pay off loans, office lease, various insurances, debts, taxes etc. while you just go to collect your EBT card and chill for a couple of months.

Whats a living wage?

Single mom, 3 kids, 4 phones, 5 bedroomhouse, 3 cars, central air.

Or

3 families in a 3 bedroom double widsharing cooking, babysitting, cars, with one landline, gardening planters, 12 chickens, 2 goats

>>134760058
So who is going to start that business? Are all the future employees going to pool their money to buy the land, building , materials. Then are they going to hope the business makes a profit? Are they willing to make almost no money for years as they wait for their share of the profits that might not come for 5-10 or even 20 years?

>>134761752

>t.boomer

>>134761541
Some people's *labor* is worth less. The other guy is an edgelord

>>134759729
>capitists will defend this
>socialists won't provide a reason why they shouldn't

Sage

>>134759729
>be human
>look for job
>see one that pays minimum wage
>accept job and start working
>demand to get paid more because you can't make a living wage
>ignore the fact that you knew the wage when you applied

Walmart would go broke in less than a month if they paid all their employees five dollars more. Either that, or they would have to make major cuts in employment. If you took the Walton fortune and divided it evenly among workers, each of them would make about $1.17, once.

People don't realize that if we didn't have a minimum wage, shitty companies would just go out of business more. Nobody would want to work for $3 an hour, so any company that tried to pay a less-than-decent wage would run out of labor. Eventually, minimum wages would be independent of industry, and the general population would be a lot better off.

>>134759729
Employment is a voluntary contract, if somebody is willing to sell their labor for a certain price then who the fuck is Kayla O'Brian to tell them that they can't.
Would they be better of if the were just replaced with robots? Your local fast food restaurant needs like 3-4 guys in the kitchen and a bunch of kiosks where people can order. Truck and cab drivers can be replaced by self driving trucks in a few years. You want to speed that process up, go ahead and fight for a "living wage".

What most people don't realise is that a decent minimum is protection for locals against an oversupply of labor thanks to mass migration.

In Australia, we are being swamped by asian students. If locals were to compete for jobs according to supply and demand, there would be a race to the bottom we could never win. For the Chinese and Indians, there is no bottom. Chinese students receive money from their family to subsidise their bid for a permanent residency visa and citizenship, so any money extra is better than no money.

OP is right, if your business can not provide liveable wages then you business should fail. The evolutionary free market will optimise around whatever the immovable parameters are; liveable wages might as well be one.

>>134760058
So is there also going to be "loss sharing"? Or do you want to make this just a one-sided equation where nobody would ever want to run a business and carry the risk.

>>134762136
No...
t.genx

Now get to work.

>>134761216
The man agrees to it. He isnt being forced. Fuck off. If he wants more money he needs to be worth it.

>>134762303
>Walmart would go broke in less than a month if they paid all their employees five dollars more
being this cucked must really be hard on you.

actively defending those that are keeping you oppressed WEWLAD at its finest

"Living wage" is an arbitrary metric leftist use when they want to paid more than they're worth. They never say what a living wage entails and some retards think it should be enough to practically give you a home in the suburbs with two cars and the ability to always buy the latest iPhone. Fuck them, its about entitlement and wanting that which you didn't earn

>>134759729
But I agree. Farmers shouldn't be able to pay Juan and Jose below minimum wage to pick crops.

>>134762860
>those that are keeping you oppressed
How is being employed oppressive in any way?

>>134761216
communism creates 3rd world shitholes too. Hitler's national socialism was basically capitalism with a slight degree of income redistribution

>>134761405
Ok, so don't have a job. Just don't be surprised when you are homeless.

>>134761405
Your solution is no tables at all?
And/or more people looking for scraps? (less businesses, less jobs, more unemployed)

>>134759729
Globalists want this you fucking idiot why do you think they want open borders

>>134761794
The weak deserve to be stepped over, frankly. This is nature. If I were weak, I would probably beg for pity too - but the cries for pity of the useless is worth little. The pity of a man considered a master is something, indeed, but just realize that's the only thing you live for. Indentured to this hope for generosity.

>>134762860
You don't have to work for Walmart, you can choose to work elsewhere. You don't have the right yo come into a business and you don't own, with no skill set to bargain with, and demand they pay you more than you're worth. The person with a problem is you, not the person you're trying to get a job with

>>134760854
This, exactly.

>>134761115
>thinks degree means you know something about subject...

>>134762169
Not everyone has equal worth.
Take those children who are born only with the parts of the brain required to maintain a living organism, are they worth the same as someone who, say, will make a scientific breakthrough that leads to the cure for cancer?

If you honestly think that everyone is equal then when forced to choose which of these two people to kill, you would flip a coin or randomly choose.

In reality some people are simply more valuable to the world and to society. It's not edgy to state this.

>>134759729
Part time jobs were never meant to be a career
Go fuck yourself

>>134759729
what if your job isn't fucking worth shit, what happened to being paid what your labor was worth

>>134763224

When there is a decent minimum wage employers stop selection based upon who is willing to work for the least (shit tier immigrant slaves) and instead become a bit more discerning about the spend and hire the best of the bunch.

When it is economically cheaper for people to work like mindless machines, being smart is slightly less relevant and technological progress slows.

>>134760854
NPD sufferer detected

>>134759729
Jesus christ what a childish attitude.

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I'd empty my bank account if someone could point me to a humble progressive/SJW

protip: you can't.

marxists are disillusioned with how important they are. hell to a certain extent we all are. but not quite like the progressive cancer.

if we lose our small business then every town will look the same, which is already largely occuring. every town will lose it's character, no more charming districts of unique shops and restaurants. it's going to be all macdonalds, walmart, montanas, kelseys, burger king, and corporate shopping centers and malls that all have the exact same chain stores.

it's hurting human morale, giving us less reason to be proud of our communities. and it is further centralizing the power to sell until only the most wealthy corporate monopolies are able to sell things.

we need a different minimum wage for small retail business, force larger retail business to pay larger wages. if walmart can't afford higher wages then let it fall. if mom and pop pancake house wants to offer low wages and someone still wants to work there, just let it happen.

we need to do more to protect small business and crush soul sucking culture wrecking monopolies. and having seperate minimum wage for large vs small retail business would be a start.

sure it would be nice if every business could afford to pay high wages. but let's be realistic. do you want to live in a world where small business has been completely crushed? no you don't, so accept a compromise, it's the only way.

>>134761794
I'm balding you asshole so why not shave your hairline back an inch in the interest of fairness to me. Don't be selfish and greedy now.

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>>134759729
dumb

So when did everyone grow out of the universal basic income phase?

>>134759929
I love this argument, it's so ridiculous only an American can believe it.
Everything is okay! You can choose the water you're going to drown in!

>>134763578
Or they see high/rising labour costs and seek to invest in technology to replace them (which only has a fixed cost with low maintenance costs), and so technology progresses quicker since there is demand for it

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>>134759729
>be you
>have no skills
>work for minimum wage
yea that sounds about right.

>>134759729

>I hate small business.

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>>134762169
i've been a contractor my whole working life and I've always had issues with pricing...couldn't figure out what to charge...how much is my work worth. finally learned my worth...and its what people are willing to pay.

you dont HAVE To take a minimum wage job...mowing lawns with a $50 lawnmower in a robot neighborhood brings in a shit ton more cash than a full time minimum wage job

people who work these jobs and say there is nothing else are just fucking lazy or disabled....sad truth.

>>134761794
>>134763224
I am currently unemployed and almost drained on savings. I expect no pity or mercy and it has only made me search harder, more creatively for jobs and has made me work harder on my school work.

I might not be able to pay rent in September but I'm sure as shit not going to demand a "living wage" because I wasted my earlier years getting fucked up and staving off school instead of acting like a responsible human being. I fucked myself and now I have to dig myself out of a hole, not expect gibbmes and pats on the back.

>>134763801
Never "grew into it".

>>134763962
Barely an argument. If you're saying that there is no freedom to choose since all choices are equally bad/not worth choosing, then what is your solution.
The current one being proposed is to reduce the choices available to people (higher wages/less jobs), and increase the number of people choosing (less jobs/more unemployed), while only benefiting a select few who keep their jobs.

Either propose a sensible solution or stop being a faggot.

>If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business
That's just wrong, plain and simple. As long as I have other options but to hire YOU I can very well afford to be in business.

>>134759729

>welcomes millions and millions of migrants who dont have skills
>only people who hire them are small businesses / warehouses who can't pay more than minimum wage
>destroy small businesses - millions of people out of work.
>destroy small businesses - the main way migrants progress up the socioeconomic ladder

fuck me these people are thick as shit..

>>134764053
>small businesses deserve to exist even if they're massively inefficient.

>>134764174
This is an unusual perspective, anon. It's K-selection at its finest, at the point of probably peak r-selection in the history of humanity. It'll get better though. r always brings K in its wake.

>>134764420
as a shitty low value person with fuck all on his resume i might gladly accept working for a lower wage for a time, since nobody would be willing to hire me if they had to pay full price for me.

low level jobs used to be for high school kids and housewives and shit, they weren't meant to be careers. but now with people failing all over the place, burger flipper and gas pumper become lifetime careers and they want career wages

>>134759729

poverty wage =/ living wage.

If it wasn't a living wage you'd eventually starve, supply of cheap labor would decrease and the wages would have to increase.

>>134764742

south americans chiming in on economics

get out rofl what are u doing pablos

>>134764728

Soon, everything that is not high-level programming will be considered "burger flipping".

>>134763962
We should just print more money then everyone will be rich! What could go wrong???

>>134764648
the alternative is frankly too terrible, it's not about deserving to exist. it's about do you want to live in a world where they don't exist? a world where only large chain store monopolies can even afford to do business?

>>134764728

Indeed... low level jobs are great if you use it as an opportunity to LEARN how a business is run. honestly I learned more about business working at mcdonalds than at university

>>134764873
Are burgers even flipped any longer? Don't they use appliances with two hot surfaces?
Fastfood workers literally assemble your order like it's Legos, then want to be paid 15 fucking dollars to do that.

>>134764687
>t. autist who swallowed too many molycult memes

Its the same way of think8ng as Dekulakization.
"Vladimir Ilyich Lenindescribed them as "bloodsuckers, vampires, plunderers of the people and profiteers, who fatten on famine". "

>>134764648
>people shouldnt be able choose from they where they can buy even its costs more

>>134759729
If you cannot produce more than $5/hour of revenues for the business, you should not be paid more than $5/hour. Why the fuck is this so hard to understand?

>>134765529
Businesses like Walmart and McDonalds should raise prices, they are far too cheap for what they are. Food is priced absurdly low considering how important it is. Capitalism has made us greedy penny pinchers when it comes to buying food, but happy to splash out on smartphones and cars.

>>134764648

>where do big businesses originally come from.jpg

>big businesses have always been big businesses.USeducation

>>134765778
If they raise prices, they will lose business. They will then have to lay people off. The real minimum wage is $0/hr.

>>134764238
Fine, be qualified to do a job that pays for your qualifications rather than one that pays for your lack of. Qualifications, hard/soft skills, and experience as adds value, if you don't have those, you're worthless and will get paid as such. These fucks are the same ones that only want to work one zero-skilled job, in comfy a/c indoor environment, minimal exertion, only working 35 hours a week, no overtime, and expect to be able to afford a $1,200/mo cozy apartment that niggers can't rent out as well. The lazy will always want to drag the most ass and get paid the most and will drag those down that work hard to their level rather than putting effort in. Work a job that is hard labor in unfavorable conditions (warehouse work pays nice, $13-$15 starting with guaranteed OT) or get a nonmeme degree.

this whole thread is just economically literate vs capitalism makes my fee fees hurt.
"but that's not RIGHT"
"people DESERVE more"
"you SHOULD raise minimum wage"
all of these are normative statements.
You need to assess the actual consequences of your 'solutions' to these 'problems' before you start spouting shit.

>>134765886
>I love being oppressed because one day I might become one of the oppressors

>>134759729
Wage is determined by the market. If you can't survive off of it then no one will do the job. The problem is socialism has broken that by making the government subsidise the employee through welfare. Kill the welfare state and pay will go up.

>>134765886
People will always need food, low elasticity of demand. Basic economics.

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>hey I want a job
>well I'll give you 10 an hour
>WTF I CAN'T LIVE OFF IT GOD THIS IS SO UNFAIR AND UNBELIEVABLE FUCKING SHIT
>so do you want the job?
>oh yes sir, thank you

If you don't like your pay, don't take the job. If you want more money, ask for a raise. If you NEED more money, either get a different job that pays more, or organize a union and negotiate better conditions/wages with the management. Why the fuck should it be the federal government's job to make your shitty job pay $5 more an hour?

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>>134760058
>anarchist
>likes markets
>advocating profit sharing
Hi Proudhon.

>>134760058
Its not a competitive model. You can go run a business that way now and people do. But they survive only because the operator is OK subsidizing the employees and no one else came along to knock them out of business yet.

>>134765886
>If they raise prices, they will lose business.
i don't care, it's macdonalds
i want big chain monopolies to lose business

small business = low minimum wage

chain store monopolies that blight the landscape like a plague of mediocrity and soul crushing sameness everywhere = higher minimum wage

>>134760361
You're right, so can rich business owners stop being subsidized by my tax dollars, please? We're not really a capitalist country if we keep bailing out 'too big to fail' banks and corporations. I'm tired of you fucking capitalist cucks literally being OK with communism for the rich, and capitalism for the rich.

Nothing is going to change though, lmao fucking 6 families own more wealth than 3.5 billion people. There is no recovering from that, this experiment of capitalism is coming to a close.

>>134766170
>don't take the job

That isn't an option for adults with bills to pay. Not that a teen susbidized by mom would understand

>>134766262
You may want that. But who the fuck are you? One small light, one of seven billion. Shut the fuck up, there's no spotlight for Mr. World Saving Canadian.

>>134766101
And yet you want to raise the price of food so that poor people can afford less of it. Smart. Kill the poor via starvation.

>>134760309
Portillos has had a little hamburger treadmill grill thing for decades. There are reasons people were still paid to flip burgers. That shitty floppy arm is not going anywhere. Too much work to maintain it.

>>134759729
If you don't want the job don't take it.

If people need the job don't try to take it away from them with a facebook post.

>>134766313
Then as I said, organize and negotiate with management a plan that works for you and your co-workers. Don't bitch to the government because you knowingly took a shitty job that pays shitty.

It's not the government's job to ensure you don't fuck up in life. The magical hand of the government can't eliminate failure.

>>134766262
Then you had better have something inline to replace them, because too many people depend on them right now. If you're going to disrupt the system, you had better have viable alternatives ready to go.

>>134760058
wages are profit sharing you moli moron

>>134766266
Welfare is probably the biggest subsidies. Its why they can pay less then you need to live. And yes businesses especially large old ones need to be allowed to fail. Its healthy for a capitalist system.

>>134759729
Oy vey goyim you cant get paid $5 an hour to learn a job skill
You need to pay $40k a year to

>>134765529

People all around the world are working for peanuts making businesses millions. It's not a problem of what businesses can afford.

I remember after popping hundreds of beer bottles behind a bar saying out loud, "I wish I got a dollar for every bottle I pop". Then realising someone else does in fact make *more* than that every bottle I pop. For a few bucks an hour an exploited nightclub bartender can bring in hundreds of thousands in profits for some fat fuck mafioso.

I am a successful web engineer. I remember begging for a $60 software licence at work for 6 months before I paid for it myself out of pocket. Our team (of not that many people) sent over $3 million in net profit off to HQ every 3 months.

If your business can not afford to pay people a decent wage it deserves to fail. Most can.

>>134766262
what the fuck do mcdonalds have a monopoly on? maybe big macs

Mcdonalds don't even control a fifth of the market share in the US.

>100 posts
>No search results Mexican/Mexico
When did pol become so bad at agree and amplify?

>>134766266
>lmao fucking 6 families own more wealth than 3.5 billion people

This is such a stupid fucking argument. As if costs of living are exactly the same everywhere in the world. As if a rice farmer in Indonesia needs to make as much as someone in the US.

>>134766537
You are full of shit and deluded. If someone made that much off beer mom and pop brewery's would put them out of business by going cheaper.

>>134766537
Go open the books on those businesses and see how much of what gets spent on what. Incentives are perverse in today's world, but you'll be surprised when you work the numbers on what is affordable and what is not.

>>134766318
what the fuck is your point? how are you not also a single small light pissing your shit opinions into an ocean of piss? no spotlight for you either buddy.
>united nations flag
cancerous globalism fuck off

as long as my opinions are making some faggot mad, i'm happy

also i've changed my opinions many times thanks to constructive criticisms and have become a smarter person for it, not that it matters, not that anything matters. but hey whatever

>>134766537
> "I wish I got a dollar for every bottle I pop"

Spoken like a true libtard Aussie cunt from a non-tipping country.

In the US, batenders actually DO make $1.00 (or more) for every bottle they pop or drink they pour. As long as you're pouring drinks at a non-nigger tier nightclub.

>>134766642

STFU you don't know what your talking about. Coronas are import beers, and sell for over $10. We also made hundreds of margaritas a night at over $15 each, all they are is a bit of lemon juice, ice and cheap tequila. I helped count the money, that joint made millions a year.

They would also illegally exploit workers, hold them to a shift and when they would drive in to work they would "Oh, its a bit quiet, take a seen and clock on in an hour or so". Scum.

>>134766865
You cant be that smart if you cant understand how a business makes money.

>>134766467
this is a fair point. my only argument might be a slow wage change. make corporate chains pay a higher minimum wage then small business, but do it gradually over time. give the market time to adjust.

something has to be done about chain stores wrecking the culture and charm of every town and city making every place look the same. it's getting bad.

>>134763312
You mis have got a degree with such a low GPA that you think other people with degrees don't know anything about the subject they studied

>>134761405
Then why not make your own table.

No wait, I forgot. Left doesn't create. They take what already exists, subverts it and cries when their shit fails. baka.

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>ask them what living wage means
>they don't know

The problem with the economy going down is 4 reasons. People having too many kids they can't support, single moms, illegals refugees and people that dont work, corporations abusing laws. Ideal solution would be is to deport all the undesirables to canada starting with single moms and beaners.

>>134766313
Yes it is, you want the cozy job to pay your bills rather than the hard one that makes you work 10-12+ a day and sore at the end of the shift. Instead of turning down cozy with no pay, you take it and demand that they pay, that's not how it works. Everyone thinks they're too good for a labor intensive or dirty job, which consequently pays more than their burger or secretary job. Work in a call center, go be a cable technician, all these jobs are out there but it's not the "working conditions" that you like, so you don't take them and cry about the lack of pay. That's choice, there is no illusion

>>134767074
do you have any actual arguments?

all i'm saying is that i accept business will fail if wages are raised. so i want wages raised on large chain stores so that they fail. because they are ugly and i hate them

The retardation is real. Guess we should eliminate/automate all the jobs that are bellow living wage.

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>>134759729
Best counterargument:
Who forced these people to work for employers that dont pay them enough?

>>134759729
Man, lefty-pol is out in full-force this morning

>>134765880
>We need more small businesses so they can grow up into big businesses
>There aren't enough big businesses already we need to subsidize their creation process. UKeducation
>>134765346
If people were actually willing to pay more money at these businesses then they would be profitable enough to offset their lower market power.
Everyone MORALLY supports small business but that's 95% virtue signalling. They don't FINANCIALLY support small businesses and that's the only support that actually matters. That mom and pop shit gives you the warm and fuzzies but at the end of the day you're not actually willing to pay more for less.

The small businesses that are actually worth while thrive. They aren't skirting the line of " adding $15 of business-hours operational costs will bankrupt me".

>>134767269
Not sure if your trolling or underage. Those big businesses will fail and the small businesses will then replace them and become the big business. Your logic is a never ending cycle.

>>134761216
Once we have a white country we can start talking.

>>134759729
lets flip this around a bit

if an industry cannot afford to pay enough, say, basketball sjoes, rap albums, and variety television, that industry doesnt deserve to exist :^)

>>134766855

That is my point, businesses that have to exploit workers should be considered non viable and die in a fire. I agree, there are many non-viable businesses hanging on by a thread.

But also, don't forget big businesses that are super profitable get caught exploiting people all the time too.

>>134767269
Don't bother with forcing businesses to raise wages. Start ending the welfare state if you want to change things. SNAP is a backdoor subsidy for places like Walmart. Corporate welfare is distorts real supply and demand.

But again, you need a viable alternative ready to go.

>>134767269
You do realise that if big companies can't afford workers, smaller ones aren't going to be able to afford them either, right? The big companies will automate the job. The small ones will never exist because the cost of entry is too high. Your position reads like "I don't like some fast food companies, therefore the market for fast food should be made unappealing to anyone who might want to create competition to the big chains."

>If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business

Except you literally can
/thread

>Nowadays, with the destruction of the aristocracy, the people have fallen into the grips of merciless money-grinding scoundrels who have laid a pitiless and cruel yoke upon the necks of the workers.

>We appear on the scene as alleged saviours of the worker from this oppression when we propose to him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces—Socialists, Anarchists, Communists—to whom we always give support in accordance with an alleged brotherly rule (of the solidarity of all humanity) of our SOCIAL MASONRY. The aristocracy, which enjoyed by law the labour of the workers, was interested in seeing that the workers were well fed, healthy, and strong. We are interested in just the opposite—in the diminution, the KILLING OUT OF THE GOYIM. Our power is in the chronic shortness of food and physical weakness of the worker because by all that this implies he is made the slave of our will, and he will not find in his own authorities either strength or energy to set against our will. Hunger creates the right of capital to rule the worker more surely than it was given to the aristocracy by the legal authority of kings.

>By want and the envy and hatred which it engenders we shall move the mobs and with their hands we shall wipe out all those who hinder us on our way.

>>134767067
>>134767067
Also, truly a deluded idiot.

Nightclubs and bars have a higher failure rate than even restaurants do. A nightclub rarely stays in business for more than a few years without going under or having to change ownership, come up with a new name, and repeat the cycle.

Yeah they might charge $5.00 a beer -- but a nightclub is also usually in a downtown district within a prime real estate zone. Hence, expensive monthly rent/lease prices just to keep the business there. On top of all the costs of operating a business.

And LOL at $10.00 for a shit Corona. FFS, you Aussie fucks are a living meme of how expensive things get in your socialist utopia. That's a $4 or $5 beer in the US, unless you're at some event like Winter Music Conference or rip off festival.

>>134767405
not really, most of those small business replacing the larger ones will never get that big. and if they do get bigger then they'll have to pay higher wages so they can only get so big.

i just don't want every city and town having the exact same shops and restaurants as every other city and town. so many towns and cities now look exactly the same, it's depressing. it's bad for morale.

>>134765002
This is probably because you were retarded.

>>134767382
Can you write something more coherant next time? Compeition will determine what businesses will succeed without the help of government subsidies. Walmart is very successful and employs over 2 million. Are they evil? Do they not put bread on peoples table?

>>134767569
So why not force walmart to pay their employees enough so that they don't qualify for food stamps?
Don't you recognize that as the point?

Is your idea really to just cancel foodstamps as if walmart will force itself to increase wages in response? Your shit is all backwards anon.

>>134767485
businesses exploit workers if people are not willing yo pay large amounts for a product

people pay low amounts for products if thevproducts are worthless

only useless industries pay little. like basketball shoes. hell, everything niggers buy. get rid of them. you dont need them.

>>134760058
>IT'S BASIC ECONOMICS GUISE

>>134767485
The most exploited people are in third world shitholes. This gets back to incentives being perverse. Bring manufacturing jobs back to the first world, and a lot of that will be automated. It won't be bringing jobs back to pay a living wage. Start looking at the margins that large companies work on, and you'll find that it's not as simple as "but pay them a working wage!"

I'll say it again: The real minimum wage is $0/hr.

>>134767663
i've been saying that large chain retail and restaurants should pay higher wage. i didn't say small business should have to

>>134759729
>people thinking free market applies only to products, not labour
kek

>>134761752
>>134762825
I hope you're all this red pilled. Keep it up, kid.

>>134759729
Sage

>>134767569
good luck with that when everyone in politics is some old fat retard that only wakes up and speaks for whatever interests pay them at the time. Real issues like welfare state will never get solved. Illinois had 3 years to solve their budget crisis and did nothing in that time but raise taxes which is not budgeting lol. There are now more people dying and leaving illinois then migrating and being born here.

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>>134759729
I think most decent people would agree that if you think it's alright to employ people full time at wages below poverty level, then you are objectively a horrible person.

>>134767836
Then you highly overestimate the worth of a low-level worked to a big ff chain.

>>134767736
>He thinks i'm shit talking Walmart because i'm criticizing Small-Business dogmatics
Wtf are you even rambling about.
>Write something more coherent next time
Please do, anon.

>>134759729
Help big business eliminate competition and come up with ways to eliminate low wage jobs. ftw

>>134761984
I don't know what the law is in the US, but here in the UK if you're running a Limited company then no, you do not need to pay off any loans, debts or taxes etc.

>>134767739
Because wage controls don't work. They will be guaranteed to fuck up either the producer or the distributor. They destroy jobs.

>>134767736
>Do they not put bread on peoples table?
actually one can make the argument that walmart costs taxpayers a lot of money in subsidies for their workers. a slice of bread removed from everyones loaf so that walmart employees can have bread too.

the globalists control walmart, so it will not be allowed to fail. they want absolute monopoloy on being able to sell people things.

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>>134759729
That's actually a good point

>>134767725
You are still not making sense. You cant stop a business from expanding because its unfair to compeition. Wages and prices will stagnate

>>134759729
You establish a contract when working for a business. This contract is negotiated between you and your employer. Which usually falls to market standards of how much you as a employee are worth If you to have more influence capital to negotiate for higher wages. Then bring more income to the business OR have a skill that is more needed.
Just because you are hired through a contract does not giving you any rights over the business.
You entitled piece of shit.

>>134760378
This is retarded

>>134767958
Sure they'll get solved. Just ask the Romans.

>>134768038
i'm fine with big business
i'm not fine with monolithic business

when every city and town has the same couple dozen stores and almost nothing else, it's ugly

>>134761216
You are a retard

>>134767050

Don't get me started on how ludicrously fucking retarded tipping culture is. Everyone is Australia except for blonds with tits working hospitality is glad we don't have that.

The vast majority of us have a great life here in Australia. The system works. If it weren't for our minimum wage laws I would not have gotten to where I am now in the time that I did.

It's not perfect, but way before we consider dropping the wages of hard working citizens we should fuck off the billions of dollars we handout to abbos and economic migrants for doing nothing.

>>134768147
No it isn't...a job paying $5/hr is infinitely better than no job at all, literally.

>>134768282
wages are low beause you spend money on uselesa shit

you think the easter islanders could eat well when they spent 100% of their time building atone heads?

useless production ia defacto poverty

>>134761794
Some if.us work, save money and make ourselves marketable. You obviously do not.

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>>134759729
if u dont want to get paid a shit wage dont get a job with a shit wage u stupid fuck

oh wait u need to eat and pay rent but are too pussy to start ur own shit and too retarded to do anything with ur life

baka

For a board that has a fetish about Nazi Germany, it sure is filled with capitalist/1%'er boot lickers.

>>134764536
If I didn't know any better I'd think they wanted one single brown race unable to fend for themselves and required to rely on government benefits.

>>134768338
Yes it's so ludicrous to tip based on the level of service you receive.

No wonder you're a Marxist. You want to be able to toss a plate onto somebody's dinner table and give them shit service, and expect to make the same as an attentive waiter.

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>>134759729
Then don't accept the job if you don't like the pay

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>>134768489
maing populace reliant on government gibs is fucking spooky to me.

>>134768189
i don't care
i just want most but not all of these ugly chain stores wiped from the landscape and replaced with some more local variety.

and i'm open to any ideas that would help. when every town and city looks the same, it's just boring and ugly and soul crushing.

i'm just saying, that if you're one of the couple dozen globalist run mega-businesses with dozens of locations in every town and city in america, that you should pay higher wages so that some of your shops close up. and everyone else can pay smaller wages

>>134768338
I waited tables for 3 years while in college. I am a man, heavy set, but because of my services and my customer rapport I came home with more money every night then the dumb blonds in the same restaurant. Clearing on average 300 a night in tips. The only people that complained about this were piss poor at their job. aka.
>I don't want to compete for extra income.

>>134768368
Probably be just as profitable to be a mendicant at that point.

>>134761984
In addition to this. I more than guarantee that said business owner puts in way more work hours.

>>134768517

I'm a white nationalists, an above average coder, and a entrepreneur that actually generates wealth. I am far from Marxist.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+tipping+is+bad

>>134759729

We'll pay what their labor is worth.

Or they can go elsewhere to find employment.

Maybe they should have thought about what the consiquences of the 19th amendment would be, what the consiquences of welfare would be, what the consiquences of the Federal Reserve would be, the consiquences of amnesty would be, mass migration, the immigration act of 1965, the military industrial complex, artificially manipulated interest rates, open boarders, etc.

We don't care.

Learn to stand on your own two feet and walk.

>>134768119
>they just don't work, believe me
What will happen to walmart, anon? Are they going to crumble? Literally how? They already employ as few people as they can operate on, and they have enough of a profit margin to easily cover a wage increase even if they didn't marginally increase product prices.

Give me a single actual reason how that wouldn't work.

>>134768552

You literally don't have the option you thick fuck when you compete with thousands of Indians and Chinese that are willing to work for a few dollars an hour. They are fully prepared to live 10 to room to afford rent and eat rice their whole life.

When businesses have to pay a wage that is liveable, they start picking quality over quantity.

>>134769178
>When businesses have to pay a wage that is liveable, they start picking quality over quantity.
great, make monolithic business pay for quality

big, medium, and small business can pay whatever wages they want and get quantity

both ends of the spectrum served. monolithic chain stores across the country forced to close up, big and medium and small business fills the vacuum creating more local variety. towns and cities have character again and we stop living in a world where the same two dozen chain stores exist everywhere with nothing else.

>>134769178
>. They are fully prepared to live 10 to room to afford rent and eat rice their whole life.
So now you're not just asking for liveable wages, and ultimately getting into what the main argument against this is "liveable" is a useless buzzword and can arbiltarily mean anyhing you want it to be.

>>134767074
Revenue-expense=profit. Wow, that was so hard. Finding out how a business makes money is not hard, it's what causes a business to lose money that is hard

>>134766328
>a rise in food prices would cause starvation

In real terms food prices are half what they were in the 1960s you fucking retard. Food prices are too low.

>>134767663
Automation is inevitable regardless of wage rates. Nice try.

>>134769440
no such thing as pricea that are too low

the relevant question is where and to whom the redistributions are directed

markets are theoretical. in reality the atate is always fucking someone. low cost of food multiplies the low iq class and fucks the high iq classes

>>134768338
Oath cunt.

>>134769147
https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin

macdonalds food is so low quality that it's literally killing people. i don't care about the fat and the sodium, everyone knows about that.

it's the 13 fucking ingredients they put in their french fries. it's how their food is loaded with preservatives and other garbage that it decimates the intestinal ecosystem causing a cascading chain of disease conditions in the victim.

you eat at macdonalds on a regular basis and you're basically retarded. if you weren't a dumbfuck when you started on macdonalds then you will be a dumbfuck by the time the food has finsihed changing you.

and then they feed this shit to kids. macdonalds is evil, they really are literally evil. they know what they're doing and they know who they work for.

>>134769440
Who the fuck are you to determine that food prices are too low? Based on what metric?

>>134769421

By refusing to define a "liveable" wage, how do you then prosecute slavery? Do you think that if a businesses offers a place to sleep and a bit of food for a day's work, it should be allowed if there is demand?

>>134767729

Depends

it was useful for me because I run my own businesses

sure if you want to be a wage slave then yeah you'll learn a lot at uni

keep your head down aussie boy hope that promotion comes soon m8.

>>134759729
Why shouldn't a burger turner make 150$/hour.

>>134770192
A key part of slavery is the lack of ability to leave, me working volunteer work with no compensation is not slavery, because it is voluntary, working for simply food and shelter is thus not slavery either, provided you are free to leave unlike what is happening in Qatar.

>>134762860
>being oppressed by an employer you chose
Who's the cuck now?

Also: Walmart has 2,200,000 employees and makes $14 billion a year in net profit (after labor and expenses). The Walton family fortune is $139 billion. If the average Walmart wage was raised $5 an hour, they'd pay everyone $2,200,000*5*35*42 more, and they would make $ -2,170,000,000 in profit (notice the negative sign). That's annual profit, so if you made the Waltons foot the deficit, their fortune would run out in 64 years. So maybe I spoke too soon.

Or did I?

Remember, the Waltons aren't going to foot the bill. If the average work week increased to 50 hours, the Waltons would be losing 1/15th of their assets every year. A $5 increase isn't even that much, minimum wage employees would still only be making around $13 an hour, so not quite FF15 level earnings. Say Walmart increased their wages by $7 an hour. Now they lose about 1/15th of their worth every year, even if employees work standard work weeks (including part-time). I'm not even counting overtime pay.

>huh anon, that's still not less than a month

I haven't even started talking about the actual value of Walmart. As soon as stockholders are told that Walmart is losing billions of dollars a year, pulling a negative profit, those shares won't last long. Imagine if it was a Federally mandated minimum wage increase. Nobody would expect Walmart to recover its profit margins anytime soon. People would be burning Walmart portfolios for kindling. Also, imagine the PR when Walmart stock crashes and they lay off double digit percentages of employees. The Waltons aren't going to foot the bill, they'll simply change procedure. That means more automated cashiers, less paid employees, lower salaries for managers, etc. With all this, it's not a stretch to say that Walmart would go broke in a month if they didn't drastically change procedure.

>>134759729
>Asking people to work is an entitlement.
>Asking...

What? That's like saying, "asking women to have sex with you is an entitlement"

How about you fuck off bitch, it's a voluntary transaction.

>>134769922
>A 2.5% profit margin means you can't afford wages
That means they are choosing to turn more volume instead of a higher margin, anon. Its not any indication at all that they couldn't afford a wage bump. Wal-Mart is still growing.

>>134766266
I have always argued against Lemon socialism. Try again.

>>134767828

Automation is a horrific problem, but trying to pay humans at the price point of machines, who do not have children to rear, do not have to rest, do not have to create, is giving up. It's suicide.

Segway from the minimum wage debate, but I think we should be genetically engineering the next generations for high intelligence because the employed will not be using their hands.

>>134770078

Ate 3 McDonalds burgers for the first time in a while the other week. I didn't shit right for 3 days. Pure gut poison.

>>134759729
so don't work for a shit wage if you don't like it retard

>>134761405
so get yourself to a good table your happy with. if you want to choose from scraps thats you're choice. no one else'

>>134767168
>"I don't make a living wage and haven't for 10 years now"

>Visibly breathing
>Has pulse

:Thinking:

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>>134760378
>captialism eventually leads to universal income
>this is why no major capitalist society has adopted universal income

>>134770657
Go look up its net profit and calculate how much that would amount to if evenly distributed among its employees. This is basic arithmetic.

>>134770789
automation is not.the problem

humans breeding like locusts with no revard for eugenic quality for 70 years after the problem was well understood is the problem

machines will restore the darwinism we neglected

>>134770522
>wal mart would have to move their item pricing to a 4% profit margin instead of a 2.5% profit margin to offset the difference
OH THE HUMANITY
>implying their business would even be substantially affected if their competitors had to do the same thing

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>>134759729

>>134770517

People would rather work for pay if they had the option. Their only other choice at that point would be slavery for someone else, or starvation.

Two Oxford definitions of "slave" (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/slave):

> A person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation.

> A person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something.

>>134763962
Setting a minimum wage in attempt to raise the wage floor is literally tampering with a natural system which demands to be in equilibrium. All attempts to artificially control the economy eventually result in natural feedback mechanisms taking control. Free markets are the only sustainable way to ensure a viable economic system.

>>134771215
reducing a margin from 4 to 2.5 is a 40% reduction in profit

idiots like you are the reason why automation us inevitable

>>134771416
But the oxford dictionary specifically deals with how it can be used in common parlance, and not the actual concept of slavery

>>134759904
>Believing this is how economy works
And (((capitalists))) wonder why literally every other economic ideology believes they are the ultimate fucking retards

>>134759729
ok, kick illegals out then so we can finally raise wages.

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>>134771718
Well said weon

>>134771892
And yet every other economic idealogy has died out except for retarded college kids in capitalist countries.

>>134771905
Thanks, awnao.

>>134767720

I agree, most hospitality businesses are not profitable. AKA they are do not bring real value to society. I would be happy if most of the nightclubs disappeared and people spent their money on their children or investments or anything other than alcohol and STDs.

Retards. Go demand a living wage from the marketplace. Start your own business and actually pay the license fees and self employment tax. Go get a loan and put up everything you own as collateral to buy inventory, equipment, lease and other start up costs. You will soon find out what you are worth. If you cannot produce value, your stupid ass will lose everything and your wife will leave and your kids will be raised by someone who can earn.

So, are self employed people entitled to a living wage then?

It is pretty easy for assholes to say they deserve someone else's money. Take a few risks. People that succeed after taking risks have zero patience for the self-entitled. Contact the Small Business Administration, they will help any loser with a business loan.

The ultimate red pill is realising free market capitalisation is as flawed as communism

With automation and mass unemployment coming, I hope you guys will be singing about muh free market and muh job creators when hordes of hungry people cut your head off

>>134759729
>thinks unskilled labor isn't paid enough
>is also pro immigrant
ww3 fucking when

Shit it feels good to have a degree and working in its respective field and making some sweet dosh at my age. If you're too retarded to get your own shit together and think people need to give you what you think you're worth when you don't have shit to prove you're worth a fuck you deserve to rot and have nothing.

>>134771997
this thread makes a better case for abject enslavement than capitalism

we have posters with i can only assume (((college degrees))) incapable of basic arithmetic

markets assume sentience as a precondition, also stochastity and fungibility of demand. i dont think theyll work with monkeypeople

>>134770129
fat shits everywhere and food industry workers on food stamps

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>>134772271
You're an idiot

Even if what you say with automation is true (which it isn't, the exact same thing has been said since the days of the steam engine) capitalism will still have brought humanity to the point where robots do all their work while communism has lead to dozens of millions of people starving EVERY SINGLE TIME IT'S BEEN TRIED

>>134772482
Fat industry workers on food stamps, mind you. Which is, of course, just because they can't afford healthy food, right? Unlike the fat people who are fat because they can. You people make no sense.

>>134772386
This post gave me hope for a worse future than I had previously envisioned. Thanks anon.

>>134771892
Even China, which has a communist party in charge, has abandoned socialism

>>134771892
>economic ideology believes
>economic ideologies have cognitive thought

wew

Why do the people who bash capitalism always imagine their economic ideology as some sort of flawless deity. I have no Idea how any other system would work in the long term because no other system has lasted as long as "I pay you to produce more value than you get paid for because I took the risk starting the business". That's the way it will always be until food, power and water are no longer issues.

>>134771205

> machines will restore the darwinism we neglected

Ah, an optimist.

My fear is the locusts will label the last productive members of society elites and cut them down in violent hunger riots. Think Rhodesia or South Africa but worse.

>>134771191
>Go look up its net profit and calculate how much that would amount to if evenly distributed among its employees. This is basic arithmetic.
OK
>2016 net profit total $14.7B
>total employee count 2.3M
14.7B/2.3M
>$6,391 per person
>50% of these people are part time
>35% of these people are international

LMAO anon this "basic arithmetic" is looking pretty bad for you

>>134760361
Pretty much this desu
If you think you're worth that much money, ask your boss for a raise
If he denies you that raise feel free to quit and apply yourself at another job, I guarantee you one of you will realize what an idiot you were before too long

>>134772644
Does that table take inflation into account?

>>134771732
TO a 4% margin FROM a 2.5% margin you sperg
Idiots like you, anon. Idiots like you.

>>134772970
Even if it doesn't, the commie countries are objectively poorer.

>>134772755
>My fear is the locusts will label the last productive members of society elites and cut them down in violent hunger riots.
and the true elites would love to arrange this. all their competition killed off. the only powerful people left being only those in full service to the nwo.

thats why guys like soros fund anti-capitalist movements

>>134759729
>we need to pay workers more
>we need to import Mexican slaves because we can't afford to pay our workers

Thinking about the tens of millions of liberals that need to be genocided just makes gas chambers even more laughable. How inefficient and stupid it all is when you could just march them to the front of a ditch and put a bullet in the back of their head. Would cost pennies.

We already have the bullets, and lots of gun owners that would volunteer their time for free. Capitalism is all about maximizing your investment, and we'd engineer the cheapest genocide in history. Most profitable, too. Jobs for those digging the burial trenches, and trillions in taxpayer savings eliminating the human waste.

Let's make it happen while I'm still young enough to get an erection watching them beg and plead for their lives.

>>134772732
i refuse to be in despair alone anon

if you wanna stare into the abyss read lands commentary on scott alexander, or just follow the scott alexander blog

you will want to shoot yourself in the head

discussions by people with phds in ohysics and econ "GEE WHY ARE HEALTHCARE COSTS GOING UP"

there is no market solution to monkeys

>>134766489
>>134760511

You people are literally mouth breathing retards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_sharing

>>134761794
Not him but I work a shitty min. wage job and live in my friends living room
I'm at a disadvantage, and I tell myself this
Not because I want to take advantage of people or because I like being taken advantage of, but because I have a realistic perception of what fairness is.

>>134772755
also possible

nz is the center of most millionaire nuke shelters

id be surprised if they did not have seed banks and robust metals markets over shortband radio prepared

they might remake the machine economy from the ashes

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>>134759729

>paying somebody a living wage to mow my lawn

>>134766266
>'too big to fail'

Can you please just google what would happen if a "to big to fail" bank didn't get bailed out? A shitload worse for you I promise.

former biz owner here

I closed my biz a few years back, it was just me and 2 employees. After taxes, insurance, fuel costs and all that shit I made less money at the end of the day then my youngest and most inexperienced helper.

I now work for someone else doing the same exact shit I did working for myself and taking home 3-4x what I made working for myself.

>>134762860
>Wal-mart is oppressing me by selling cheap food and other essentials, and paying a government mandated minimum wage while still maintaining a comparably safe work environment!
>What a terrible company!

>>134766490
>And yes businesses especially large old ones need to be allowed to fail. Its healthy for a capitalist system

>2008
>banks aren't bailed out
>mass unemployment, food shortage
>think it's only temporary then the civil war begins
>"oh but thank god the banks weren't bailed out"

>>134759729
>Minimum wage should be living wage
>The sole purpose for your existence is to put potato cuttings in a bath of hot oil and remove them when the oil machine beeps.
That's some grimdark shit.

>>134773477

We could take the world back today if we had the balls. We have weapons and resources Spanish conquistadors and British colonists could only have dreamed of.

But that will never happen for the same reasons we are in a state of decline.

Maybe a few millionaires will survive in luxury in the mountains of NZ, but biologically speaking the nigs would have won.

China have the numbers and the balls to take on the nigs if they can get their shit together in time. They are making good gains.

>>134773447
I too remember the tech bubble of the 90's. Truly a great time to be alive.

>>134771181
it leads to UBI through automation. When machines and AI have all the jobs there won't be a reason to employ people.

>>134774236
if we kill the niggers and muslims realistically we have to kill every nonwhite non nothasian race immediately after, otherwise they will continue to blame us

then we wilk need to immediately kill all the liberals and anyone below an iq threshold of 120, which would be required threshold to understand why genocide is necessary

thrn we woukd need to kill anyone who didnt support us, and eir entire families as they are accessories to crimes

even the perfect outcome is a VERY long decade

>>134759729
Nobody, and I mean nobody, can pay workers what workers want to make.

>If a job is worth being done, its worth being paid enough to live

That's the fucking point. Thats supply and demand you fucking retard