/pol/ BTFO

>>134669452
Who forces people to work for those employers that don't pay them enough?

>>134669452
>If a job is worth being done, it's worth being paid enough to live

That's for the one doing it to decide, faggot.

>>134669670
>>134669824
In a capitalist society people have no choice but to work if they want to live. Many of these people therefore have to work shitty jobs that don't pay well enough

Employers don't control the cost of living
Employers aren't responsible for your awful money-management skills
Employers mostly can't prevent you from obtaining multiple jobs

This.

Which is why I'm against employers hiring illegal aliens for slave wages and think they should be required to hire American citizens for a living wage.

>>134669452
pretty sure minimum wage IS a living wage. Y-you're nor seriously trying to support a family by flipping burgers are you?

>>134669452
>agreeing to work for someone you think is exploiting you to subsidize their desire to barely make a profit and get fucked by the government
Why do shitlibs hate small business? Oh right, because they aren't globalist shills that import the third world.

>>134669452
>entitlement at it's finest
>it's
worthless opinion discarded with prejudice

>>134669452
God I love liberals.

>the common man and woman is not smart enough to negotiate their own working contract with their employer
>behold, I enter
>tips fedora
>let me save thee from thy ignorance, common mortal
>demand 50 an hour or refuse to work
>your life is better without a job if you can't make a "living wage"
>just be homeless man
>BRB gonna go smoke a joint and drum with my friends
>oh no, I don't work. I live with my parents lol

And that's how Portland Oregon became what it is today.

If you're too stupid to survive on $15000 a year then you don't deserve to live. And if you have kids while working a minimum wage job then they don't deserve to live either

>>134669899
im what type of society do we all get to chill out and have everything we ever wanted?

>if you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business

That's the entire fucking point you stupid cunt. If you increase wages beyond the threshold of affordability, jobs will disappear.

>>134669452
sure maybe small business would be able to pay workers living wages if they weren't being assfucked into bankruptcy by unnecessary taxes that only go to government waste.

>>134669899

And if these shitty low-paying jobs were gone, they wouldn't be working anywhere.

>>134670146
>If you're too stupid to survive on $15000 a year then you don't deserve to live.
Not everyone lives in shitty rural Midwest anon

>>134669452
it's called 'at will' employment. Meaning you can quit anytime or I can fire you at anytime. No one is making you stay and you will be easily replaced.

>calling other people entitled while making such an aborrent post

>>134669452
Living wage is set completely arbitrarily and is in reality mercurial. There's no way state or national enforcement could keep up with shifts in the economy or tax code changes. Leaving wages to the invisible hand is certainly going to have a better result.

>>134670391
>rural Midwest
>shitty

Pick one, faggot.

>>134669670
externalised costs, if the government will provide healthcare, food, rent then why should any business pay more than minimum wage.

>>134669899
Maybe they should have waited to have kids, gotten an education, and made something of themselves. If they refuse to better their own lives why should someone else help them? They don't even help themselves.

>>134670146
lmfao $15,000 is like my annual grocery bill

>>134669899
Are you telling me I can't have everything I ever wanted for free??

>>134669452
I like how they blame low wages for killing their dollar value, instead of high taxes. Lower sales tax and income tax, cut well fair programs and get the same results.

>>134669452
by reducing wages, you reduce the cost of making the product, therefore you can lower the products price.
So yes the wage is lower, but the living wage also becomes lower, since you need less to buy stuff

>>134670391
Ok then let's say you live in Jew York City
>free public housing with utilities
>free food (stamps)
>free obamaphone
>free medicaid
>free public transportation

What the fuck are you even paying for? $15000 worth of weed?

>living in a world without small businesses
>only walmarts and other massive corporate stores
>all character and culture driven out of every small town and city until every place looks the same and there's no reason to go anywhere. a nations morale crushed as people stop feeling they have any reason to care about their cookie cutter communities that all look the same. a population ready to be controlled

we could move towards this future even faster then we already are

>>134670391
But they could.. so his argument still checks out.

>>134669452
>the absolute state of millennials

>>134669899
Wages are depressed by immigration. End immigration and wages will raise. You can't expect workers in developed nations to race to the bottom of the pay scale to match immigrants from shit holes.

>>134669899
>people have no choice but to work if they want to live

And what system lets them just do nothing and still be able to live?

>>134669899
>In a capitalist society people have no choice but to work if they want to live
just like in every other society

>>134669899
Wait we live in a capitalist society? Since when?

>>134669452
>You have to already be rich/successful to start a business

>>134670687
As a college student I spent about $40 every 2 weeks on food. Eggs, chicken, rice, pasta, broccoli, bananas, and even a couple snacks. If you're poor don't buy steaks and shit

>>134669452
>>134669452
You know what is keeping the minimum wage down? Immigrants. Immigration. Illegal hiring practices. H1b and H2b.

Are you against immigration? I am. Its an artifical valley created in large part by an uncontrolled immigration program instilled by a need for votes and cheap labor.

>>134669899
you mean reality anon

>>134670262
>If you increase wages beyond the threshold of affordability, jobs will disappear.
If only we could have everyone working unpaid internships and slavery then everyone could have a job...

Wait why are my sales falling? Why won't anyone by my products? Better cut the compensation I pay my workers so I can stay in business. Strange it's almost like the more I cut the compensation I pay my workers the less money people have for buying goods and services!

>>134669452
You can always choose to not work that job if you think you aren't paid enough. It's THAT simple.

>>134669452
>you are asking

And they are saying yes.

What's the problem?

>>134669963
NatSoc is the answer, high trust homogeneous nations will take care of their own people.

>>134670198
real
communism

>>134669452
A "living wage" to gen-z is a laughable concept. To them, a "living wage" means enough to pay for their 2 newest iphones, desktop, laptop, and whatever new gadget came out this week on top of an 1,000 sq ft apartment for 1 person and finally enough left over to eat out 5 nights a week at their newest trendiest and overpriced restaurant that charges $40 for a "gourmet" piece of vegan toast on a plate. It's literally fucking retarded.

Once kids realize what a real "living wage" is, this idiocy is sure to end.

>>134669452
gas the taigs

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Minimum wage hikes hurt workers. OP BTFO!! He's on suicide watch right now and can't shoot 10mm because of limp wristing.

>>134669452
literally not an argument.
If person A agrees to by paid by person B amount X for work, it is no-one else business however low X is.

>>134672734
oh so nowhere ever

>>134670198
Post-scarcity after we have fusion energy and near-complete automation

>>134672883
>1000$ per month for rent
>300$ per month food
>200$ per month healthcare
>@7.25$/hr w/10% tax = ~1122 per month
lol ok

>>134669899

Food isn't going to cook itself and fly into your mouth. In any society you need to work in order to live. People work shitty jobs because they have shitty skills.

>>134669452
>GIB US DA LIBING WAGES
>NO BORDERS AND SHIEEET
If you aren't reporting every illegal you can, you deserve the lowest wage possible wage.

>>134669452
>someone offers contract for $5 per hour
>sign that contract
leftists are just fucking garbage

>>134673430
this. liberals want their utopia now but we still havent built it yet

>>134672633
Serious question, would I still be able to buy good computer parts and play video games in in a natsoc society?

>>134673532
>1000 per month for rent
>either renting in an expensive city or needing an entire apartment to yourself when you work at McDonalds

Had it coming

>>134669452
>I should be able to live for flipping hamburgers that make people pieces of lard

get roommates. live with your family. stop eating avocado toast.

>>134669670
Mass migration

>>134673532
Depends where you live. Minimum wage here is around 11$. If It's only 8$, then you should pursue a hard labor job that requires little education.

>>134673532
Theres also the retarded policy that an apt won't lease you an apt unless you make 4x the rent

>>134673583
>People work shitty jobs because they have shitty skills.

Complete shit. This disregards the underlying economy completely.

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>>134669452
Honestly we need a new union at this point. We are the most productive we have ever been and do not see any of the profits. My corp limits raises at 3% a year max and any promotion at 15% for 5 years. Quality work has no reward in our system because it was efficiency'd out. A corporations see it as moral to lower its costs and workforce to the lowest levels to serve the share holders not the workers.

>>134673620
some states have mayors and shit that literally tell law enforcement not to deport/not question illegals about their citizenship, it's pretty fucked when those in power in your city want laws to be broken and encourage it

>>134674049
yes, that's what Eastern Europeans do in Western Europe. share a tiny living space, send most of their wages back home. Fucks both the locals and the overall economy because they don't spend locally

>>134670849
why? we are all human, theres nothing different between us and third worlders than skin color

if people agree to make a little bit of money instead of no money, it is ok.

minimum wages are like black lives matter
belongs in a time 2 centuries ago

not that exploitation doesn't occur today but this is not a solution to it, its a simplistic heavy handed intrusion into the privacy and autonomy of people by simplistic minds who think they do something good but really just ruin everyone's success in the market

plus regulations need oversight, so more govt

no to all of it

>>134673532
Who told you you had to pay $1,000 for rent?
You idiots claim to be "educated" but you can't figure out that driving 40 miles away from a major metropolitan city-center could cut your rent literally in half. For fuck's sake you're honestly morons and pretend like you don't have a choice in any of this. Part of being an adult is making rational decisions. A rational adult wouldn't enter into a voluntary contract with an employer for $7.25 an hour if they knew they couldn't even cover the rent with it. A rational adult would walk out of town (work case scenario) to a place that a) would pay them more than $7.25 an hour and b) where rent wasn't $1,000 a month.

You faggots need to stop acting like every city in the country is the same as downtown manhattan or LA. Get some perspective and you can't afford to live there live somewhere else. Who told you while you were growing up that the jobs were supposed to come to you and that you deserved a six figure salary or to live wherever you want? You're the epitome of "entitled asshole" and the reason most people can't stand millenials or gen-z.

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>>134669452
If you don't like it you have two options... fuck off and get another job... or fuck off and start your own. You sit there talking about entitlement when you're the one who's being entitled.

>>134670146
That's about the amount of money I blow off on rent. I do make 90k though...

>>134669899
the horrors of capitalism: you have to work if you want to live

KEK

>>134669452
>economic from a woman
Lemme just jot this down and store it in my agricultural tips from Africans folder

>>134669452
>Literally impossible to debunk

yeah if taxes eat half of your wage, maybe the taxes are to high and not the wage to low

>>134674434
*worst case scenario

>>134670716
Cut immigration and h1b and h2b as well and wages will go up. This shortage of workers is complete bullshit, if there were a true shortage wages would rise by simple supply and demand.

>>134674341
we have the same problem with spics here in burgerland. it's turning some cities, like mine, into shitholes.

>>134674388
Then how come they can't make shit work in their own countries?

>>134670112
I wanna say fuck you but I can't even disagree. It sucks too because a lot of places here are actually hiring like crazy. 1 week out of college I found a job. Just not exactly in my feild.

Fucking commies here don't understand the worth of earning your own money.

>>134673985
>>134674113
>>134674128
$1000 per month is the national average for rent for a studio dumb ass.

Even at 12$ per hour you are bring in ~1857 per month. Add in electric, water and trash that's 200 per month. Car payment and gas is ~250. Emergency money always required is ~200.

All together we are at $1950. No savings no fun times no off time ever.

>>134669452
You're right.

In the US we have these people called 'H1Bs'

They are the (((globalists))) indentured selves.

>>134669452
>If you can't afford to pay a living wage; AND pay personal, property, business, and wage taxes; AND local, state, and federal regulation fees; AND pay health/dental/liability/ and lawsuit insurance, then you shouldn't be in business.

>>134674771
legacy of slavery. if you disagree you are a nazi racist

>>134673430
Don't forget racial homogeneity, or it'll never be possible.

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You can live off of less than minimum wage dumbass

>>134670575
thats called slavery. slaves had shelter and food and basically a job. people working less than living wage are slaves who arent whipped. why is that up to the government?

She's right, you know

My annual bill
$500 per month on food = $6000
$500 rent = $6000
$300 on medical, cellphone, utilities and miscellaneous = $3600
$15000 on escorts

That's a whopping $30600 on post-tax income

>>134674434
https://www.trulia.com/
Look up your area and find me a sub 1000$ per month that is not a roommate thing and a drug den.

>>134670333
thats not an excuse to pay your workers less than a living wage

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>>134669907
>Employers mostly can't prevent you from obtaining multiple jobs
this is why in my country zero hour and other low hour contracts need to get fucked, i work as a manager in a store that's open 7am to 11pm 6 days a week and 8am-4pm sundays i couldn't get another job when i could be asked to work anytime between those hours, at least i have a decent contract, but there's people here working on 6 hour contracts it takes the absolute piss out of them and i encourage them to get another job

>>134669452
I wish people like that would go tell that to small business owners, mom and pop shops, & new startups. People with literally zero economic sense.

>>134675064
Slaves are people who aren't allowed to leave you fucking retard. It has nothing to do with wages

>>134669452
living wage????
dying wage?
Wage?

>>134669452
It's true, but I can also decide to starve to death and burn your house down just before the end.

>>134670759
This. You can live comfortably off dried beans and cheap vegitables and 5 dollar Walmart steak. Poor people are all on drugs or literally retarded.

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I wonder how Kayla thinks companies start.

>>134669452
These people aren't forced to work in low paid work. Many are in low paid jobs due to their own moral failings, also low paid work is meant to be temporary not for the rest of your life.

Prices would go up if a living wage was introduced meaning the increase in the wage would make hardly any difference. It would also make it harder for poorer young people to get into work, cause why is an employee going to pay a teen £10 an hour for cleaning dishes???
Also introducing a living wage will put many people out of business which would reck the economy. An economy runs on consumption why should someone start a business when they couild make more money in an other country or for another employee

>>134669968
You're not going to solo sustain on minimum wage unless you live in a fly-over state with low housing costs.

The French concept of existence added a dangerous dimension to capitalism. Of course there's no chance of inducing a working understanding of this in someone who thinks communism is a good idea...

>>134669452
If people are willing to accept a wage, then that's on them.

>>134675086
Apartments.com

This is the faggotry I'm talking about. You whiney ass children think anything that's not a 5-star loft is "OMG LITERALLY A DRUG DEN!"

Why do you live somewhere that $1,000 month for rent isn't feasible unless you have a roommate? Why haven't you picked up and left to someone more RATIONAL to live? Why did you not finish college and get a degree that would cover your rent if you wanted to live without a roommate?

Again, these are all your own CHOICES. Nothing's being forced upon you. Nobody's holding a gun to your head to sign a lease or tying your legs and setting your car on fire to keep you from moving to a more affordable area.

At some point you'll have to grow up and take some personal responsibility instead of blaming "the big bad business-owner Boogeyman" for all your failures in life.

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>>134669452
The socialists REEEE while the rest of us get on with life.

>>134669452
YOU AREN'T PAYING A LIVING WAGE
>>134669899
YOU MUST WORK, EVEN AT A BELOW LIVING WAGE TO LIVE
Wut? You first say you can't live on these wages then you say they need that job to live.
It's like you're terrible at baiting.

>>134674857
Then live with roommates you fucking retard. Get a scooter that requires way less gas to get around. Work 2 jobs. Buy cheap food and learn how to coupon. There are things you can do to not live in the dark ages.

>>134675671
>if people are forced to survive out of necessity in a society they were born into on state mandated minimum wage, that's on them

>>134669452
>Literally impossible to debunk
Correct, because appeal to emotion is not an argument.

>>134670998
No, you don't.

>>134675708
Cause it's not fair. I DESERVE equal living standards to someone with a college degree. Communism WORKS.

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>>134675708
Chill dude i'm 70k a year engineer and own a house at 30. My issue is i'v done everything right and made all the right choices and still live off a budget and cannot afford a vacation. This shit is bullshit.

For an average person you cannot assume they have a roommate, otherwise you could just assume they live at home and when the parents die they get the house. The world is not that nice however.

https://www.apartments.com/salem-or/
All I see is 1000+ or high crime rate. The places that show the variable rate are lying. Call them and they will laugh at you, iv done it. Several of the lower income place will help you fill out section 8 housing forms and fuck the government!

Corporations paying minimum wage are using tax dollars to subsidies them not paying their workers.

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>>134669452
If you take a job that's too low paying to live on, you're either shit with finance, need to take a 2nd (or 3rd) job, or kill yourself now.

>>134674857
Wrong, dumbass.

>"Rent prices across the country average about $1,231 each month, but the median rents in these more affordable places are about half that." www.cbsnews.com/media/top-10-cheapest-us-cities-to-rent-an-apartment/

>The average is 1,200 while the MEDIAN is about $600.

What does that mean?

It means you're a dumbass for sitting and complaining about the hyper-inflated prices in 20 cities in America when there are literally thousands of other places you could just as easily move to and be comfortable.

If the rent in LA, SF, and NYC are $2,500 a month for a studio and everywhere else is sub-$1,000 who's the idiot working at a burger joint that's too stupid to drive 40 miles so they can live without roommates? It's you.

Our ancestors crossed literal continents on foot to migrate and you entitled faggots act like not living in 1 city out of 1,000 is an impossible task. Kys.

>>134676748
http://www.deptofnumbers.com/rent/us/
>Median Gross Rent $959
Close enough dumb ass. Find me an apartment as a web link that is the mythical 600 or even 300 a month then we can talk.

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>>134676270
>I've done everything right

>Can't afford to take a single vacation on 70k salary a year

Pick one and only one, dipshit.

>>134674341
>>134674680
we have the same problem with national and multinational corporations. they move into towns after analyzing the populations for suitability to work, then they pay 100 people's salaries for that local town, pay some taxes, then send all their profits off to some other state or country. it's the nature of capitalism.

however, you can share homes with friends and family and still be a part of a local economy. it doesn't have to be a bad thing. the """less fortunate""" immigrant types do this because they're willing to, but """privileged""" people aren't willing to, because they have other options. they just like to complain.

>the squeaky wheel gets the grease

>>134676748
>when there are literally thousands of other places you could just as easily move to and be comfortable.
Lower housing costs=lesser job availability and pay

>>134669899
And in socialist societies half your family goes to gulags, the other half gets a bullet by nkvd. Spoken from family experience.

>>134669452
...then don't work there?

It's not that hard to get a decent job. I live in Bumfuk TN and make $24/hr at a factory.

>>134676988
Lol what? My department of 10 engineers uses 5 salesmen, 10 line workers, 3 sourcing agents, and 2 manufacturing engineers to bring in 1,000 million of revenue each year. We keep 3 million in dev costs and the rest goes to corporate who says we spend to much. you do the math. I see the whole picture and we are getting bleed dry. Fuck the corporation.

>>134676945
>Source says Median rent is $600
>faggots source (GROSS rent, not net) says $900+
>Literal difference of +50%
>"Close enough dumb ass"

I can see why you're a poor faggot and can't grasp basic finance, it all makes sense now. Neck yourself you useless pleb.

>>134677091
>Source: My ass

>>134673820
yes but at more expensive cost but more better quality
video games would be way rarer though as its a typical comsumer product

>>134677499
959 is close to 1000. Your number is total bullshit. Either you find a apartment that is not a whole in the wall or admit you are full of shit.

>>134670198
In a hartz society.

>>134669452

>/pol/ BTFO

Wut this is one of main arguments against mass immigration. It suprresses wages and allows businesses to pay below living wage because increased worker pool.

Also, the reason why tipping is retarded.

>>134677574
>Source: Detroit

>>134677353
We don't give a shit about the breakdown of your company, the fact remains you entered a contract voluntarily and a) no one is keeping you there and b) there are jobs elsewhere.

I'm starting to think you liberal crybabies are just terrified of leaving your pseudo-ivory towers because you might be confronted with something that challenges your oh-so-fragile belief systems. You're literally living like slaves in a select few city-centers instead of picking up and moving your fat asses somewhere more affordable. You're complaining about prices when it's already been shown you're buying into hyper-inflated markets. The only one to blame for that is yourselves not "the big bad corporation." Are you faggots really that terrified to leave San Fransisco?

>>134669452
dumb bs, britcuck.

>>134677574
>Source: literally how the housing market works
Availability of work and higher wages drive the cost of living up because people can afford more. When the opposite happens, costs fall as people don't benefit from keeping rental properties empty. You literal fucking retard.

>>134669670
Do you like food and not sleeping outside?

>>134670112

Portland gets worder with every year but people keep moving here.

My house will be worth a million in 20 years. Then I will sell and buy a cheap property in Florida.

>>134677353
>1,000 million
Actually it's 100 ten-millions.

>>134676270
Jesus christ, learn to properly spend money.

>>134677780
You realize the reason Detroit is a graveyard is because labor union morons petitioned to pay non-skilled laborers $40+ an hour to put in a fucking car seat on an automobile and it tanked the entire economy there, right?

Detroit is the model for what happens when whiney faggots think they deserve outrageous pay for their menial work; the companies pick up and move away.

>b-b-b-but Company's need to pay a "living wage" for unskilled work!

>D-d-detroit! Oh wait a second .....

You're literally proving my point for me. Were you even born when people still lived and worked in Detroit? You've gotta be 14 or something.

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Reminder that 60 years ago a grown man could afford a new house, new car, a wife, 3-4 children on the salary earned working in a soda shop. Pumping gas used to be something that paid enough for an entire family to live on.

>>134675569
>this is a really good place to live if you're rich, I don't want to live in a boring state
>"but you're not rich and also are constantly complaining about the cost of living"
>fuck off flyover trash

>>134678306
then wtf happen?

>>134676270

Oregon is shit and so is engineering.

You should have gone medical. There is demand in every city, even the cheap ones, and the wages are high.

If you were actually good at things you would know how to min max credit card bonuses for free flights.

>>134677901
Again, stop acting like there's "OMG LITERALLY NO JOBS OUTSIDE MY PRECIOUS CITY." You sound like a weak ass manchild who can't make his own decisions in life.

No one's forcing you into a work contract or forcing you to stay in your current geographic location. If you don't have the ability to move it's a result of your own poor choices and planning, the housing market didn't just inflate itself overnight. Stop making excuses and make the decisions you need to as a man to live more comfortably. If you don't have the balls to take control of your own life then stay where you are, crying with your head in your hands, but don't expect anyone to give a shit or feel sorry for you.

It's really that simple.

>>134677876
My point is why are you defending the all mighty corporation? The produce nothing and force sub divisions to hand over their profits. The wage system is set by faceless nameless groups that make it impossible to negotiate with as they dictate metrics everyone must follow. I work in the corporate life because they give me a shitload of money to be productive and create items for the betterment of mankind. The corporate metrics you do not be good at your job, just do be shitty enough to be fired. Promotions are based on rank, some score, and time served and nothing to do with skill at the positions needed. As a manager you cannot even hire people, only recommend a position to be opened and wait 6 months to see if the approval get through and another 6 months for the budget.

>>134678328
I live in a fly-over state, Kansas.
Job market is shit due to fucked tax plan from Brownback; too many small businesses closing. Turns out waving the small business tax and taxing the shit out of the populace leaves them with less money to patronize small businesses.
Who woulda thought? (literally everybody)

>>134675064
>slaves had shelter and food and basically a job
>Job means you perform a task in exchange for money
>slaves didn't get paid
>slaves were property

>>134678534
Eh, you have used what I have made and don't even know it. That's what gets me off.

>>134678542
>No one's forcing you into a work contract or forcing you to stay in your current geographic location.
Technically true but circumstance forces me to stay put.
>If you don't have the ability to move it's a result of your own poor choices and planning, the housing market didn't just inflate itself overnight.
It inflated itself while I was still in highschool, mong.
>Stop making excuses and make the decisions you need to as a man to live more comfortably
Literally what I'm doing; paying for trade school with shit wages.

Why are you so mad anyway? Just telling you that you're a wrong faggot and you come way out of left field with this shit, kek.

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>>134678306
How does one "afford" a wife exactly?

You're also negating the fact that a "new house" was likely a 1-2 bedroom, 800 sq ft home not a $500,000 mcmansion that all you entitled cunts seem to think you deserve.

That's not to say that inflation hasn't happened, because it clearly has, but what's your game plan, kiddo? You going to sit on the curb, homeless and cry about how it was half a century ago or are you going to learn, adapt, and grow as a person and make your life what you want it to be? If you're admitting defeat because you're weak and want the government to hand-hold you and make every decision for you....well I guess you're in the right place because you're a fucking leaf but that's not how it works in the US, sorry.

>>134670664

What the left never engages with is the idea that, if there are no consequences for being a retarded fuckup (ie through tons of social programs and whatnot), more people will be retarded and fucked up.

This isn't an inconsequential problem. Society can handle a nominal amount of hangers-on, but there is inarguably an event horizon at which point this becomes ruinous.

If the debate was just around where this point was, that would be one thing, but I've never seen a leftist even admit that it exists.

>>134678252
Yea $15 in 2017 is not $40 in 1970... I have not fucking idea how line workers made more then the engineers.

>>134678470

Burgeoning housing, Medical and education costs.

He neglects to mention that this family didn't have a tv, monthly telecom bill. Sometimes they had one family car and they lived cheaply.

It's all still possible to live this way. After the housting market crashed thereally were plenty of family appropriate houses for under $100,000. Monthly payments on such a mortgage are under $500, affordable on two weeks at minimum wage.

Everything else is cheaper. Food, electronics, and even services. Housing is the big block that makes it completely impossible for people to live this life unless they got in when the getting was good.

>>134669452
Supply and demand.
Should have went to school and learned something useful, instead of bitching.

>>134678982
Sorry, I don't speak morbidly obese, please try someone else.

>>134678982
it's literally exchanging a vote for hedonism.

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>>134678546
I'm not defending corporations, if anything I'm completely neutral on the subject. What I am pointing out is using "ohh nooo the scary corporation" is nothing but a scapegoat you use to cover up your own bad decisions.

>I work in the corporate life because they pay me a shit ton of money

So your problem is what, precisely? Your own poor handling of your finances? Smh.

>>134678850
>Technically true no one is forcing me to stay put but "circumstances" force me to stay here

Circumstances that you yourself created, no one else.

>The housing market inflated itself while I was in high school

And you were still stupid enough to stick around a dense, hyper-inflated market instead of moving very literally anywhere else? The only mong here is you. You're basically saying you saw it coming a mile away and still walked right into it. How can you even claim to be "educated" really? You're a dumbass.

I'm not mad at all. This is just a common tactic from the liberal, entitled, pussified young people of today.

>If you don't agree with me you MUST be defending the big-meanie corporations!

No.

>If you don't agree with me you MUST be mad or something!

No.

Again you've just made a collection of bad choices and it takes an equal amount or more of good, rational, choices to fix the problem. It's just sad to see whiney douches making excuses and coming up with scapegoats instead of facing their problems head on and making the change they want.

>>134669452
> /pol/ BTFO
> /pol/ is supposed to be "NatSoc Nazis"
Stop with this Inception shit please.
Probably some ShareBlue/CNN crap.

>>134679037
Fat-cat workers unions, but no one wants to talk about how those were/are still just as greedy and damaging to the economy as any corporation

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>>134669452
>asking
Maybe that's why it's called an "asking price"? Maybe he won't stay in business if people answer "no"?

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>>134670759
>free public transportation

Fucking WHAT?

>>134679481
Great rebuttal there, child. This is what the left resorts to when they have to face cold facts head on: elementary name-calling and plugging their ears. Smh.

If everyone followed the advice of trying hard wouldn't people still be working at fast food joints?
I don't advocate a "living wage" but this knee jerk reaction is annoying.
They are using immigration to slash wages.

>>134679700
>Circumstances that you yourself created, no one else.
A few, sure but I didn't make minimum wage $7.25 and build a society in which people must work to live. I also don't decide the cost of my own bills; I only control what money I save and spend on frivolity. Essentially 10%.
>And you were still stupid enough to stick around a dense, hyper-inflated market instead of moving very literally anywhere else?
Had you read the thread, you'd see just how misplaced your sperging is. I live in Kansas, retard. I never claimed to be educated anyway; you sure you're even replying to the right person? You might double check.

Like all you gotta do is chill for a second and you'd realize how stupid you look.

>>134679700
Poorly worded on my part. Pay as in they give my division money to develop new products. Not the pay as in I get to take home.

I want the Mexicans and Chinese who do the work to make more then the .42 and .83 per hour we pay them. They value us as a cost of the product and not as designers that can make them anything with enough money. If the international markets were forced to compete on a level with us we could win. But the morals of corporate life is to fuck everything for the short term.

>it's finest
can't speak english, why do I need to refute what is not even a valid text in any language?

>>134669899
That's why they have to stand up for themselves and barter the best wage they can.
Now if only it wasn't for a troupe of H1B visa owners and other immigrants who're willing to work sub-minimum wage just to get into the United States...
For all that complaining the left does, they sure have a habit of creating the problem themselves.

You know those Chinese factories that pay shit and make everything you see around you provide you with shelter. Minimum wage doesn't pay shelter.

>>134679959
It's called walking, burgerfuck. Try it sometime.

>>134674192
The underlying economy being that if you don't work, you don't eat?

>>134669452
>And you know business economics better than a business owner and should be paid more isn't entitlement.

>>134669452
Every restaurant in USA. If you eat out or buy fast food YOU are the problem.

>>134670849

The immigration argument has already been debunked and deemed false. Immigration plays literally no part in stagnant wages. Good try though, kekifag.

>>134678470
Women started to work.

>>134680683

Food had never been cheaper.

Anyone with no income in America, even illegal immigrants get $200/Mo in food stamps.

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>>134669899
I mean, you do have a point - but the places that have this particular problem, primarily have it because of shitskin invaders / illegal or economic immigrants, who don't pay taxes, and thus artificially lower the work-revenue of the native population. Pic very much related.

>>134672883
Is gen z our new scapegoat? Let's legalize prostitution and fuck all of their holes.

>>134669452
I'm a leftist but this is still stupid because the workers demanding a living wage are the entitled ones as thats what they demand without taking on any risk such as the business owner is doing when operating said business.

>>134674128
Keeps the trash out...

>>134679990
You might have wrote something, don't know, didn't read since I set it up to filter out leafposting so from my perspective it was just a line with the post number. Great projection with the elementary name calling though.

>>134669452
>If a job is worth being done
Most jobs aren't necessary and can be done with automation

>>134680790

Somehow, according to you the laws of supply and demand don't apply to labor.

Even in your bizzaro world, the immigrants would still come as a net cost to social services. Taxes could be lowered and people could better afford a life without them.

Even with some light reality warping your belief falls flat.

>>134681305
Consumers dont want that though. They want a face to walk them through everything.

>>134669452
for a loser.

>>134680187
>I didn't make minimum wage $7.25 an hour and build a society in which people must work to live

But you're not working for minimum wage (apparently) and the people who are are unskilled workers that the market has naturally determined don't have the skillsets to be paid more. If unnatural market forces weren't applied (ie setting a minimum wage by law) they would be getting paid even less because the actual value of their labor is worth less. If anything, our current system is overpaying them.

>I don't control the cost of my own bills

Does someone turn the light switch on and off for you? Do you not control the cost of running water in your house/apt? Can you not upgrade or downgrade to a larger/smaller place? You're in complete control.

>>134680244
>If the international markets were forced to compete on a level with us we would win

No shit. It's already happened. That's the reason we even have trade agreements like NAFTA in the first place. It's because we had so much of a competitive advantage over other countries we had to step back and agree to be LESS competitive and give them a leg-up so their entire populations wouldn't starve to death. Do you even know history? Were you born before 1990? You sound like you're completely clueless about this stuff.

>I want Mexicans and Chinese who do work to make more than $0.42 or $0.83 an hour

If those are real numbers they're either a) illegals in the US or b) in a place where that's a competitive wage for their region, again, what's the problem? You think illegals deserve to make a living wage in the US or do you just have a hard-on for shipping US wealth over to other markets? Neither of those make sense in your current position because you're shooting yourself in the foot on a micro and macro level yet you're still the first one to complain that "moving anywhere else in the US means less jobs available." You're actively working towards making that a reality with your bleeding heart.

>>134676091
You're not very bright are you.

Workplace compensation is determined by the market value of the job being done. Sure you can play around the margins by factoring and qualifications such as education experience credentials etc...but that's only around the margins. Some jobs simply aren't worth that much.

I'm certainly open to the argument that we have not invested properly and our population to instill the skills that are required in the 21st century but that's a role of the public sector. Private sector compensation is entirely different.

>>134669899
if people can't afford to live where they live, they should move where they can afford to live.

>>134669670
hunger aka god

>>134669452

Well she's right about that. The reason why "/pol/ is btfo" just flew over my head though.

>>134681634
Let them eat cake.

>>134669452
Dishonest argument.

If you pay them significantly higher, your product will cost more and your business will fail on free market and you're on 0 again.

This person is either economically illiterate or advocating communism by the back door.

>>134681182
Bullshit all you want, you're on the wrong side of reality and it's not surprising your country is being overrun at the moment if all the men up north are as weak and indecisive as you.

>>134669452
Minimum wage laws have been used to discriminate against niggers.

Racist.

>>134681779
What about the increased profit margin?
My understanding is that a good profit used to be considered 3-5%.
Now good profit is considered 15-25%

the only way to fix this is to refuse to do business with countries that don't enforce a liveable minimum wage. decent societies shouldn't have to compete with quasi slavery.

>>134669452
>/pol/ BTFO
How?
Is it my fault she is looking for a job that doesn't pay a living wage?
Shit nigga.

>>134669452
Agree completely OP.

>>134669670
>>134669824
>>134670112
The threat of starving to death, you fucking moron.
>working is just a free choice hurr

>>134669968
>>134669985
The minimum wage in the 1960's adjusted for inflation is around 17 dollars an hour. Anyone against a raise in minimum wage is simply a mindless cuck for corporations who is advocating against their own interests and for the destruction of the (actual) job creators: the buying power of the middle class.

>>134670198
why not? who told you that you have to live like a moron subjected to bills, fees, usury, taxes, finance laws because every bit of your existence has been parted out for sale. all that shit is created of people who fuck the system, not the ones who don't bother anyone. quit being a fucking jew you kike motherfucker

>>134681992
And 10% used to be considered a "good" tip for waiters and waitresses. Now you faggots expect 20-30% for literally carrying a cup and plate to a table. What's your point?

>>134669452
Oy vey goyim you cant get paid $5 an hour to learn a skill
You need to pay $40,000 a year to go to college

>>134669452
nobody forces them to work for that wage

>>134682109
The minimum wage in the 1860's adjusted for inflation is around 0 dollars an hour.

>>134669899
Nigga, even animals in the wild have to work for their next meals, mates, shelter, and overall not getting eaten alive.
The difference is they don't earn "cash".

In what fantasy land do you live in?

>>134682423
The threat of starving to death does, dummy.

>>134682234
My point is that wages could go up without effecting consumer cost if company ownership didn't expect such inflated profit margins.

>>134682544
Really cool (and utterly irrelevant) point, anon. Would you like to form it into a relevant argument?

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>>134669452
>thinking /pol/ is one person
>literally impossible to debunk

it needs to be rewritten
>can't
should not be used like that
and
>worth
is a fucking subjective term
you need to avoid subjective
if you want to sound objectively solid and "impossible to debunk"
just sayin

>>134682423
ale na wykop wykurwiaj

>>134682665
How is it any less relevant than what the minimum wage was in the 1960s ?

>>134681513
>But you're not working for minimum wage (apparently)
>apparently?
I work for around $8/h.
>If unnatural market forces weren't applied
I'll stop you there. If businesses weren't regulated, we'd be fucked. They've proven this time and time again yet every fucking election cycle it's "muh regulation hurts us, don't you believe in the free market!" They'd bleed us dry and hop ship.
>Does someone turn the light switch on and off for you?
I control when and at what rates I use utilities, sure. The size of the residence will do little else but decrease the cost of electricity to heat and cool it. Your argument is literally just cut back on necessities to afford necessities; flawless logic.

It doesn't really matter though, as implied before, I'm not struggling to get by. It's really no big secret that young adults in 40 years ago were in a much better position to start a life than they are today and scapegoating generation after generation since the beginning of fucking forever does nothing.

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>>134682605
Sure, wages could go up without effecting consumer cost and the solution would be less jobs for non-skilled workers available. Again, look at Detroit. Do you not economics or what?

If you don't like someone else's wages what's stopping you from creating your own business and implementing the wages you want to be competitive with them? This always rolls back to being "someone else's fault" and the people whining about it will never take action, so what's the point exactly? You're not winning anyone over to your side (flawed as it is) by just crying about how life is unfair.

>>134669899
You'd be paid more at your shitty no skills no value job if there were less/no immigrants competing for the same job, you know. "The jobs no American wants to do" are jobs Americans should be doing.

>>134682594
Bears use punch clocks?

>>134682890
Because the minimum wage is the topic, and whether or not is was intended as a living wage, or as working slavery.

When minimum wage was created, it was obviously intended as a living wage. What happened 100 years before that or during Republic-era Rome is equally irrelevant.

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>>134675143
>living wage
What if the value the worker produces (even accounting for the labor surplus that the evil capitalist boss takes for himself) still isn't worth a "living wage?" What then, you 30-year-old burger-flipper?

>>134683314
It was intended to create inflation so banks could continue to give out shitty loans

>>134670198
In a transhumanist society

>>134669452
>Asking people to do something is entitlement

>Me demanding more money is not.

It's actually vbery much a "living wage" the second you stop drinking every night and buying the newest $600 plus $120 a month (or rougly 2000 every other year and 1444 every year) phone every 2 years.

>>134683125
>that pic
HE didn't 'earn' 100% of his revenue, because the entire system and infrastructure put in place that makes ANY of it even possible is a COLLECTIVE effort. Taxes is the rightful means of paying back into that system.

>Again, look at Detroit. Do you not economics or what?
Detroit (or Seattle) being used as examples only makes an argument that minimum wage should be raised nationally, so that companies can't just skip town to avoid paying their employees slave wages.

>If you don't like someone else's wages what's stopping you from creating your own business and implementing the wages you want to be competitive with them?
Because it's not about being competitive, it's about right and wrong. Doing the right thing does not make you competitive against psychopaths, which is why regulations are required in order to not reward psychopathic behavior among CEOs.

>>134683427
>muh conspiracy
Yawn.

>>134683712
>keynesian economics is just some crazy conspiracy theory

>>134683125
I'm not claiming this to be unfair. Really i simply see the current business world as unsustainable due to short sighted practices. The way things are going strikes me as lose lose no matter how you cut it.

>>134670467
No guarantee of a job regardless of skill, time or efforts to grow the company. No person should ever feel confident that at any moment them and their loved ones could be put to the street and fight for survival. We must learn to obey or Jewish masters without question if we want to eat and survive. If can fire us or remove us from our rented homes at any moment they deem desirable for their benefit. If they find out you don't agree with their political candidate or if you put up a sign on your home opposing their chosen candidate, everything you have can be stripped away.

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>>134669452

>If a job is worth being done, it's worth being paid enough to live

>>134669907
>Employers don't control the cost of living
Agree.
And it's helpful to recognize why we, in 2017, seemingly are not doing better than workers 20 years ago...
1. One is needless costs of regulation- increases in costs without increases in SOL.
2. Another is higher taxes, leading to both higher costs (on consumption) as well as increased unemployment. When taxes are increased, more people have incentrive to not work...especially combined with increasing social safety net.
3. We consume luxaries- (nice cars, electronics, houses, clothes) that previous generations did not- who might have settled for no phone, a rusted car, an old house, and hand-me-down clothes.

All this said, the problem is largely spending habits and government regulation (which add costs without adding value). And it's silly to think that giving more power to government (which they simply sell) is going to solve any problems

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>>134678470
1. Women started working which immediately halved the value of labor for any job women are capable of performing near as well. (Note: trades, which comparatively next to no women even try to compete for still pay fairly well)

2. Immigration from non-white countries devalued low-skill/low-IQ labor profoundly. Most of these people came/come from countries where the value of life is so low it would be unheard of in white countries. Working under the table as an illegal for $3 an hr is still an incredible improvement to living as a skilled laborer in haiti/mexico/brazil, just in the value of safety and enforcement of the basic sanctity of life (a principle generally only applicable to white countries).

>>134683342
"muh living wage" idiots don't realize that it's not the boss paying the wage, but rather the customers...and that increases in wage hurt customers, bosses, and employees...for the benefit of those employees who remain employed...selfish as fuck.

>>134683671

>the entire system and infrastructure put in place that makes ANY of it even possible is a COLLECTIVE effort

You know what to do, then: withhold your part of the effort as leverage to re-negotiate the terms of the deal.

>>134683909
>minimum wage is a conspiracy theory
Try again, fuckwit.

>>134682935
>I work for around $8/hr
Unskilled work. Noted.

>If businesses weren't regulated we'd be fucked. They've proven this time and again...

First, who's "they"? Second, it comes up every election cycle because there are small businesses who are regulated to the point of closing their doors. The bureaucracy bleeds business dry, not corporations bleeding the people dry. For fuck's sake they have regulations that say a Ford factory can't expand and put on a new building at a production plant if it interferes with the "natural habitat" of some ant colony or collection of spiders somewhere. Look up the regulations yourself and tell me they're all necessary. You can't do it with a straight face.

>I control the utilities I use.
Precisely.
>The size of a residence will do little else than decrease electricity and heat/cooling

And likely halve the cost of your rent depending on your location, you conveniently left that out of your little daydream.

>It's no secret adults 40 years ago were in a much better position

And there were also record numbers of them in the military who signed up because they realized the opportunity it would give them. They're called Boomers for a reason, dimwit, the "boom" happened when all the GIs came back from WWII. What's your excuse for not joining the military like them?

>>134684327
It is part of demand side economics

>>134669452
I agree. Only giant multinationals that pay 5% effective taxes should be allowed to operate a business.

>>134684315
>You know what to do, then: withhold your part of the effort as leverage to re-negotiate the terms of the deal.
But but but they will just hire someone else....but but but muh delusions of importance.

>>134670687
What the fuck do you eat?

>>134684495
ok then why does anyone make above minimum wage now?

>>134684393
>Unskilled work. Noted.
>Noted.
>Throwaway 4chan bantz

>First, who's "they"?
Business owners. Turns out people who start businesses to make money do everything they can to make more.
>Second, it comes up every election cycle because there are small businesses who are regulated to the point of closing their doors.
Once again, I live in Kansas and let me tell you that it's not the regulations killing small businesses, it's the lack of spending money in the populace. Regulation HELPS small business by allowing them to compete more easily.
>Ford factory
>small business
It's almost like regulation is bad for giant companies.

>And likely halve the cost of your rent depending on your location
Not halve; maybe knock a couple hundred off if less bedrooms. Either way, we're in the smallest place we can reasonably live in and afford; I don't need your advice.

>What's your excuse for not joining the military like them?
Literally everyone I've ever met in the military (quite a few since my sister is one of THOSE women) have told me how shit it is.

>Asking people to work (Capitalism)
not
>Forcing people to work (Communism)

>>134685084
>work or die
or
>work or die

Gee, hard decisions. Freedom is worth it though.

>>134677950
Food and shelter are privileges, not rights. Deal with it you whiny faggot. I have no qualms letting someone starve to death or die from exposure.

>>134684774
>ok then why does anyone make above minimum wage now?
The work they do is valued by others for more than minimum wage.

>>134669452
Just end immigration then

>>134685357
The Ausbro you are responding to is answering an idiot...the Ausbro is BASED, and saying that NATURE forces people to work.

>>134669452
And what does this millennial communist cunt define as a living wage?
>Smartphone plus unlimited data
>Muh overpriced clothing and nostalgia
>GMO-free and locally sourced food
So let's look here:
Don't need TV or home phone so we can scrap that. Internet is a questionable need but we'll price it at $15/mo. Food comes to $200/mo. Fuck a car, you're poor, ride a bike. Let's assume it's winter, gas comes to $50/mo. We'll put electricity at $125 even though you lack a tv that is constantly running. You live with a roommate because you're poor, they split rent with you so $250/mo for rent. Smartphone+Bill come to $90/mo.
What are we at?
$730/mo for living expenses.
You work at walmart because you fucked so you get bi-weekly pay at minimum wage and average 30-40 hours per week.
60*7.25 = $435
80*7.25 = $580
Sub out your taxes and shit and you come to:
~$375 to $490 per pay or $750 to $980 per month. You make $11,760 per year after taxes or $300 below poverty which qualifies you for free medical and $200/m in foodstamps with some community service. So take that $200 from your monthly expenses and we're at $530/mo for living expenses. Giving you at least an extra $220/mo to fuck around with.

tl;ldr: minimum wage is a living wage unless you're a hipster cuck that can't live without his designer clothes soap operas.

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>>134685084
>Working for the state because you care about it. (National Socialism)

>>134669899
Right, and in every single other system people are forced to work at gunpoint for a little bit of bread every day.

>>134670687
I guess you are also a person that snack eats serrano all the time?

>>134685611
>minimum wage is a living wage
>only after taking advantage of 2 subsidies
>assuming everyone lives within biking distance of work
>Walmart schedules full time

>>134678470
Also, socialists wanted more gib programs, while simultaneously the richest wanted less taxes, and everyone in the middle wanted more credit. All won. A combination of national debt, social private debt, and higher relative burden upon everyone between the working poor and the exceptionally wealthy made the majority less affluent. Technological progression gave the appearance of continued upward mobility, but relatively speaking people on the whole became less wealthy, in exchange for tax breaks n' gibs.

Sand Nigger Land
Mo's Cult of Death
Glad there's more white faggots

>>134685788
>Right, and in every single other system people are forced to work at gunpoint for a little bit of bread every day.
I find that most like being told what to do...they want more hours, but will not stay later to work them...they must be scheduled to work them...even men are becoming like women...requiring orders in order to improve themselves.

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>>134684978
>excuses
>more excuses
>even more excuses

Newsflash, no one said life was easy or fair all the time. You're complaining about how people had it 40 years ago without being willing to make the same sacrifices of time and energy that they made, is it any surprise that no one gives a shit about your opinion when you're such an entitled hypocrite?

>>134669452
I see no problem there, low skill = low wage, my business, my gains

>>134669670
>In b4 same argument was made for child employment.

>>134669899
*slowly shakes my head up and down*
>In a reality anywhere, living creatures have to do a thing in order to survive.
The tyranny is real.

>>134685873
Then don't get medical, oh wait it's state sponsored regardless.
Even without the foodstamps you come out positive at the end of the month.
Walmart was an example you fuck.
>biking distance
not an argument

>>134685898
>Technological progression gave the appearance of continued upward mobilit
Exactly. That which I question is whether technoloigical progress will pull us through the increasingly-socialist society, or whether our greed and stupidity (asking gov't the ability to tax others for our benefit) will prevent us from reaching a point where our time preferences will elongate.

>>134670664
Irrelevant. Even if every worker did this, there would still be jobs that pay low wages. Not everyone can have the kinds of jobs your talking about, we still need clerks and janitors and what have you. Your outlook is so bleak that there would still be massive poverty in a utopian society.

>>134669899
>people have no choice but to work if they want to live
Wrong.

>>134677115
>Raising min wage means gulags!!!

>>134686305
>there would still be jobs that pay low wages.
Low wages would have much more buying power if there was no welfare

>>134686305
>we still need clerks and janitors
Clerks and Janitor wages are not implicit to their jobs...it's that the supply of these workers is high...if 10% of people wanted to become engineers, then engineers would be paid minimum wage.

>>134686174
>in b5 equating child labor to a grown ass manchild demanding $20/hr for unskilled labor because "life's not fair!"

Well at least you got the child part right anyway.

>>134683314

>When minimum wage was created, it was obviously intended as a living wage.

It was actually intended as eugenics.

Don't believe me?

https://www.princeton.edu/~tleonard/papers/retrospectives.pdf

>>134672633
>high trust homogeneous nations will take care of their own people.

Then how did Sweden, Germany, France, etc. end up the way they are today?

Oh, let me guess, the Jews right?

Fucking idiot. Socialism doesn't work. Neither national or international.

>>134669452
They are right, I won't argue with it. The only problem is that there are many subhumans who are more than willing to subsidize their employer with their lives, their health, their free time, their sleep, their children, their relationships, etc... This makes it very difficult to get employed if you actually demand to be treated with dignity, as there are many people around with no desire for dignity who will undercut you, many people willing to keep into a burning fire for a pittance.

>>134686550
Leap*

Expel all third world migrants. Wages increase due to constrained supply. Housing costs fall due to decreased demand. The problem is the ratio between jobs & housing on one end and population on the other.

Current affairs nailed it:

> It’s incredible that in the United States, $15 can somehow sound like a high minimum wage. With a regular 40 hour workweek, it’s $600 a week. If you never got a day or a week off, you’d be earning $31,200 a year. Maybe that’s a lot in Turkey, Texas, but if you’re in one of the nation’s major urban centers (say, Seattle), it evaporates pretty quickly. Especially if you have a child. Or two children. Or a car. Or a dependent relative. Or an illness. Or some debt. This map from the National Low Income Housing Coalition, showing how much you need to make per hour to afford a two-bedroom apartment in each state, is illuminating. Even in the states with the least expensive housing, such as Arkansas and South Dakota, you need to be earning around $14 an hour. On average across the United States, it’s about $21.
[...]
>Everyone should be paid at least $15 per hour, then. Period. What’s more, it’s not difficult. I’ve never run any kind of organization before I began running Current Affairs. So I didn’t know how much credence to give those Small Business Owners who are always whining about how put-upon they are. “How do you know what it’s like if you’ve never run a business?” they ask. Well, now I know. And the answer is: it’s easy. It’s easy to pay $15 an hour. If you’re not paying it, you’re not trying. You’re not making any kind of real effort to think about how to give your employees a decent standard of living.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/anyone-who-says-they-cant-pay-15-an-hour-is-a-lying-swine

>>134685357
Have you read Ayn Rand yet in your AP english class?

>>134686450
>Low wages would have much more buying power if there was no welfare
Slightly- but high wages earners would at least double their buying power, as minumum wage earners are only taxed welfare to the extent of taxes they (and their boss, and their boss' customers) pay.

>>134669907
>Employers mostly can't prevent you from obtaining multiple jobs
They actually can do this, but normally for non-shitty jobs. If my employer found out I took a second job they'd fire me.

>>134686645
Well that's a solution, give housing to everyone and real state it's a way for people to have something of value as back up plan or as investment tool.

>>134686734
It is not about taxes
Welfare keeps prices artificially high by creating more demand

>>134686550
This.

The main grouping of individuals willing to do this are immigrants for the turd world

>>134686023
>Newsflash, no one said life was easy or fair all the time.
Really strong argument. I never said it was anyway; just poking holes in your fallacious reasoning.
>You're complaining about how people had it 40 years ago without being willing to make the same sacrifices of time and energy that they made
People could afford houses with their first job 40 years ago, kek. They didn't have the Internet or mobile phones so it's not really a sacrifice for them and besides, they had fridges, TV's, and microwaves among other modern amenities.
Shit's just gotten worse over the last 40 years and ONCE AGAIN scapegoating every generation does nothing. Hurry up and die.

>>134686275
>Even without the foodstamps you come out positive at the end of the month.
Without foodstamps and still paying the same rates on groceries, that leaves $20 to either save or spend. Not really capable of moving forward at a reasonable pace when $20 is your margin of error.
>biking distance
>not an argument
Show up sweaty to a menial CSR job at minimum wage and see how long they keep you, really.

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>>134669452
Agreed

>2017
>Believes in political discourse based on muh human rights

>>134686174
What is wrong with child labor?
I worked an after school job when I was a kid, and yet I have managed to avoid spontaneously combusting or whatever.

>>134686482
So then regardless, the economy requires there to be a class of workers that serve as the bottom line. The bottom line should be livable.

>>134686482
>if 10% of workers wanted to be engineers then engineers would make minimum wage
That's simply not true, because the average individual is simply not intelligent or hardworking enough to be an engineer. It doesn't matter how many people want it, it matters how many intelligent, well-educated people want it and if engineering paid minimum wage then smart people would look elsewhere for career options

>>134669907
Employers can fire you for having suboptimal availability, which is what happens when you get multiple jobs. I've had to choose twice in my life between jobs for this reason, if I can't put in X hours a week and guaruntee weekend availability, I get let go.

>>134686550
Fuck off idiot leaf.
YOU are the reason that Ontario has the HIGHEST DEBT in North America...higher than commieFornia.
But keep thinking that the problem is NOT YOU, that it's GREEDY BUSINESSMAN...and to solve this, demand your CORRUPT PEDOPHILE gov't simply add more regulations...
The problem is those, like you, who believe that problems are solved by gov't...you are in a state of eternal adolescence...old enough to cause problems, but too stupid to self-reflect...and fix them.

>>134669899
So no other businesses exist?
There is no other place they can work?
Unions are impossible?

>>134669452
Why not let the workers decide if it's insulting to ask them to work below living wage? People generally don't work for you as a favor, and you don't hire them for a favor either. God I hate these dumb fucks.

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>>134686710
>Have you read Ayn Rand yet in your AP english class?
Still salty that Ayn Rand BTFO'd commies?

>>134686863
>Welfare keeps prices artificially high by creating more demand
Welfare does not create demand...it simply shifts the demand to products other than what the taxpayer would spend it on.

>>134686827

You don't really need to give it to everyone. What's needed is to reduce the number of people currently in the labor force/housing market by reducing the population. Easiest way to do that is to shut down the third world migration pipeline.

In the 1980s in New York, you could rent an apartment for like $300 a month.

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>>134670664
>just pull yourself up by your bootstraps

>>134686550
>It's the Mexicans and Chinese's fault!

Well yeah. Nothing really mind-blowing about that. When it's eat or be eaten, you're hating them for providing for their family because they're willing to make more sacrifices and put in more effort than you for the same job?

Canada showing it's true colors now. Which is it? You leafs give a shit about the well-being of immigrants or not? Starting to see how all this hug-the-world rhetoric is bullshit? Or do you just think you have a right to decide "what's best for them" and their own lives when you can't even handle your own halfway decently? How very authoritarian of you.

>>134686948

Engineers don't even make that much compared to the demands and rigors they go through. Smart people go into finance and law. Not a lot of jewish engineers for that reason.

>>134687033
The American ruling class has a habit of castrating unions. Mostly the right.

>>134687211
>it simply shifts the demand to products other than what the taxpayer would spend it on.
And so the prices of those products go up

>>134675086
https://www.trulia.com/for_rent/44.109705989154,44.217332083444,-94.101273994315,-93.93647907244_xy/13_zm/

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>>134686698

Except current affairs is a gay fucking magazine that was literally funded by donations on kickstarter and has a whopping total of 5 employees.

>i never ran any kind of organization
>i didnt know how much credence to give those small business owners

The dude literally shitposts IRL 6 fucking times a year with four of his buddies and calls himself a small business and thinks thats anywhere comparable to the real thing. He literally begged for gibmedats and wouldnt have any sort of magazine if it wasnt for the kindness of others.

All you nailed is a giant board to your forehead stating how fucking stupid you are.

>>134687322
>smart people just become social parasites

>>134687337
Good. Unions are the enemy of productivity.

>>134686698
>key word "IF" you're in one of the nations major urban centers (say 1 city out of 1,000)

What's stopping you from relocating again? Our ancestors migrated across continents to get where they wanted to go, what's your excuse for being too pussified to drive an hour across your state for better opportunity? Did your mom tell you everything would be handed to you as a child because you were "special"?

>>134687239
That third world migration pipeline, keeps the economy going, it's our money and resources that your economy needs to keep the perpetual growth.

>>134669452

this is true as evidenced by companies being welfare queens

>>134679959
NYC bus fares are done on the honor system. They're basically free

>>134687565
What good is productivity if it means low wages and poverty?

>>134669452
Does anyone actually argue against this.
Far as I'm aware it's not a controversial statement.
If there's any disagreement I can only imagine it stems from what you'd define as a, 'living wage.'

>>134669452
Workers do not have to work for any employer. They can leave at anytime if they believe they are worth a living wage. Business is just doing what business does best: get the best deal for themselves. The jobs that pay shit are jobs that anyone could do. Those jobs are also in short supply compared to the market. Even then if they applied themselves and networked they might get a better paying job. Side not minimum wage is living wage. It isn't a pleasant life but you can live on it for a reasonable number of hours worked.

>>134687322
"Smart" people use their expensive college degree to study business. Smart people follow their passions and pursue the areas which best befit their skills. Yes, even literature is a work of passion.

>>134669899
>In a capitalist society people have no choice but to work if they want to live
In every functional society.

>>134686876
If biking distance is a problem for them, they shouldn't have hired you in the first place.

>>134686740
And any "non-shitty" job that will fire you for obtaining a second job (likely a competitor) lays it out plainly in their employment contract which you sign when you agree to get on board. A choice that you make.

Again this all boils down to your own personal mistakes and no one else's. If a mass of people agreed not to sign/agree to it they would change the policy, so why haven't you martyred yourself yet and been the first to step out and refuse the agreement to lead the way for others if you believe in what you preach?

Could it be it's all lip service and nothing else? Probably.

>>134687748
It isn't poverty if society is ten times more industrious and successful. People make the mistake of thinking the 1% making more money => you make less money. The reality is both make more money than they would in the long run.

>>134687592

Chilean copper exports don't have the same impact that Mexico or Guatemala dumping peasants on America does.

Per capita growth is a good thing. Just dumping more people on the country results in aggregate growth, but it is negative generally since it causes more demands on government services, pushes up housing costs, and pushes down wages.

>>134686936
>The bottom line should be liveable.
First, funny how those advocating for a living wage are living.
Second, the inability to live is more an inability to live as others...without adding equal value to society.

But there is some legitimacy to the concern of the poor who see that they cannot live as well as before...
1. Taxes/Regulations/Quality-of-products have all increased along with wages. Which means that minimum wage workers are paying more for things they don't want (quality) or that are pure waste (regultions/taxes)
2. Work has become increasingly intellectual, increasing the supply of menial work...which means lower wages. This would be solved by increasing education....but cost of schooling is too high...it's just become another tax (which funds communists who chose a useless degree, and are not employed, at high wages, by the university).

>>134670391
So we're subsidizing milennial desire to live in a metropolitan area.?

>>134687465
There is a gap to be bridged. I don't have a problem with cities establishing a higher minimum wage, by law. Smaller communities and fragile economies may not be able to afford that. Like the nationalist immigration policy of Trump, it's amazing for our working class and poor, for both wages and opportunity. But some seasonal laborers are still necessary for US interests, albeit far fewer than leftist cucks tout, to help save fragile economies and businesses that have used that labor for years.

It's all going to take compromise, and nationalist policy forces the issue.

>>134687086
>hy not let the workers decide if it's insulting to ask them to work below living wage?
People can only be free if forced to be free!

>>134687705
>honor system
>basically free
am i detecting some melanin magic

>>134687086
>Why not let the workers decide if it's insulting to ask them to work below living wage?
Somehow, the elimination of these low-wage-jobs would increase the wage of its workers...

>>134675159
>low level jobs typically have you be "on-call" and give you fucked up and inconsistent hours
I wouldn't even care of all those resturaunts and retail stores fucking disappeared. They caused me so much grief with their insane amount of greed and control they put over their equally shit employees.

>>134686876
>people had refrigerators and microwaves 40 years ago, they had it so much better than us today

Even the poorest of the poor in section 8 have both of these and TV sets so if that's the standard you're following for "success" in America, clearly we're living better than previous generations.

>Show up sweaty to a menial CSR job at minimum wage

Who told you you couldn't ride with a backpack that had a change of clothes in it? Just more excuses...ZZzzz....

>>134687086
They aren't dumb. People who gauge economic policy by their slave morality are dumb.

>muh freedum
>muh equality

Sad!

>>134688071
Not really a desire to do so. It's more a recognition that the best-paying jobs tend to all be in a limited number of high-cost metropolitan areas.

Obviously, it would be better to reform zoning along Japanese lines to increase housing supply, suppress crime like Duterte did to make more areas of cities livable, and expel immigrants, but until Trump goes full Pinochet, we're stuck with the impact of democracy and its attendant shittiness.

>>134687465
they are able to continuously sustain themselves in a market environment by delivering their product to customers in exchange for money. In what manner are they not a legitimate small business?

>>134687273
Your pic refutes yourself...gov't influenced industryies are increasing costs, while private are not...yet you desire for govt to intervene?...

>>134688224
top kek

>>134687789
>Business is just doing what business does best: get the best deal for themselves.

so why is it wrong when individuals do the same?

>>134688063
I've got bad news for you. The unions got busted and industries like steel and auto jumped ship and outsourced to other countries anyway.

>>134687239
>In the 80s in NY you could rent an apartment for like $300 a month.

Source? They were also getting paid $500-600 a month for the same level of labor today.