How can people support taxation?

>>134636943

If you put "The threat of violence." and a picture looking down the barrel of a gun instead of the faggoty pixie dust shit the meme would pack more punch.

Of course you ancaps were never too smart.

>>134636943
You live in a society where the majority agreed on giving a little bit of their income to provide streets, social security and other social goods for everyone who can't afford them.
If you don't like it vote for a person who promise change.
If he doesn't win the vote the majority still gives "consent" on taxation.
So your last option would be leaving.
>Tldr
Move away if you don't like it fag

I like having all of these things at once:
>roads
>police
>firefighters
>healthcare

They have no choice.

Double digit IQ will think they have no choice because the man tells them and automatically takes their money

Triple digit IQ realize it's for the benefit of society and it should be an unspoken knowledge. It has held societies together for centuries

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>>134636943
Don't like it, move somewhere else
Staying is your consent

>>134636943
go live in the woods if you have problems with paying for civilization

there's not a single major economy in the world that functions without large-scale state intervention

>>134636943
Don't pretend you're employed, faggot.

Move to Somalia.

>>134636943
You consent when you use things paid by taxes

>>134637210
>Triple digit IQ realize it's for the benefit of society and it should be an unspoken knowledge. It has held societies together for centuries
lolbertarians can't into the social contract

>>134637174
I don't care about people who can't afford them.
I don't care about streets or "social security".

It's my land and I own it, I'm not moving away for some socialist fantasies.

>>134637194
You'd still have if people didn't pay taxes, you just would have the choice to pick the best for the money instead of Big Daddy stealing in your wallet.

>>134637210
Oh because modern society is so good today. nowadays?

>>134637284
Civilization is a spook.

>>134637308
>frenchfag in charge of understanding how "things" are produced

>>134637278
good point

>>134636943

Want to not be taxed by an evil government? Go get a boat and live in international waters. It's your choice to live in a society full of people that actively want taxation.

>>134636943
There is consent. When there isn't, it's called a rebellion.

>>134637174
There aren't very many countries where you can live without taxes but actually they don't all seem so bad. I don't see why ancaps legitimately don't just go there.

1. Consent
2. Exchange
3. Exchange
4. Exchange

>>134636943
>What makes taxation not theft?

Consent.

You consent to live in this society. If you have a problem with it. go to the Boulder Outdoor Survival School. learn some skills, and then head to the woods.

In ancient times, it wasn't uncommon for gurus to head off into the wilderness and escape the confines of society. Just do what people have been doing for centuries.

But you're a libertarian, so you won't.

>>134637485
Maybe it's because there is something in human nature which ties them to a particular place?
Blood and soil anon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPH8BTwPKU

>>134637380
>It's my land and I own it, I'm not moving away for some socialist fantasies.
You were born in a land based on these principles
You were born most likely in a hospital payed by these socialist.
>I don't care about people who can't afford them.
Till the day you need them and then you are happy they excist.
>I don't care about streets or "social security".
And one day you get robbed or your house burns down and you back for fire fighters and police
Basicly this (as stupid this show is)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_-w_T-t8aM

>>134636943
What makes abortion not murder?

>>134636943
>Roads

>>134637308
Devils advocate: does the kidnapping victim consent to the kidnapping if the kidnapper feeds them just enough beef jerky between rapes to not starve

>>134637380
yeah, i think so.
what was better, without taxes? are we talking tribal humans?

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>>134636943
>muh strawman

When you use things such as roads, public transportation, any emergency service, this is all consent, which you should pay for, unless you know, you don't, and then it's socialism :)

>>134637380
>why do I have to pay for roads when someone else can?
>everyone thinks that
>no roads

>>134636943
because small minds refuse to acknowledge they are small, because they have this little monster called the ego that takes the drivers seat whenever left or right brain or both gets uncomfortable

>>134636943
Public infrastructure.

>>134636943

Because of the chaos that results from a power vacuum. Its better to be taxed than to live in anarchy. Minus a state that can support itself with tax revenue, it would be rape and murder, pillaging, as it has all across history.

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Create your own army, Defeat the current one. Establish your own tax regime, Or STFU.

>>134637656
No.

If you gave me beef jerky and I ate it the only consent I gave you was the privilege to gift me beef jerky.

>>134637818
>if I use the product of my stolen wealth then it's can't have been stolen

>>134636943
Social contract. You don't consent to getting put in jail either, neither do you consent to laws made 200 years ago prohibiting murder. Doesn't matter

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>>134636943
>How can people support taxation?
Propaganda and threats.

>>134636943
I've been trying to understand what is the point of society and what is the point of government? I realized there is no escaping society in the modern world ive been so heavily impacted i will never leave. I can take breaks but never will i be able to self sustain without being part of society. Society is for the greater good and development of humans. Humans can use what they make to eventually make our lives so easy we dont have to work and can just enjoy/distract ourselves. Government is in place to make sure these procedures happen. But the government requires participation from all people inorder to keep functioning. And inorder to continue this road to make life so easy for us all, we contribute our lives and sacrifice ourself for work we may not enjoy. This is done to make humans that can put us toward our goal of not having to put much effort inorder to enjoy life. All of us must take the burden to bear if we want to society to continue for us and thus reap the rewards.

TL;DR: Inorder to have a better life for us all we must contribute from our own lifestyle. (obviously taxes are abused but a necessity to achieve progress).

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>>134636943
Necessary evil. I don't blame people for wanting to keep their money, but come on. Taxes are the price of civilization, if you don't consent then you have mental problems desu

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As any attorney will tell you, It doesn't matter what you THINK is right, Or what IS right, But what the law is.

>>134638097
>Social contract
I never signed anything. I never even saw it.

>You don't consent to getting put in jail for murder
You broke the NAP.

The better question is why do niggers steal when the government already does it for them?

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Why do libertarians even want a nonviolent society? Why does anyone?

Society without violence or conflict would suck ass. We'd totally stagnate

>>134636943
If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

>>134638221
>Why do libertarians even want a nonviolent society?
Libertarians are not pacifists. They believe in retaliation.
They simply do not strike first.

Also, when you'll grow up and have a family, you'll want nonviolence too.
Violence is nice when you're young and single.

>>134638273
>If you don't like it, go somewhere else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland

>>134637174
>Hey anon we had a vote and all 9 of us want you to hand over your money
>What you don't want to?
>but why it was democratically decided
Just because you voted to take someone else's money doesn't make it not theft.

Bitch have you seen the cost of a hospital stay?

>>134638314
so go there

>>134638339
>Just because you voted to take someone else's money doesn't make it not theft.
They can not pay simply by renouncing their citizenship and fucking off to somewhere else.

>>134638339
Yeah that's why most democracies nowadays are republics too, with a constitution.

In a total democracy, if 51% of the people voted to kill the other 49%, it would be permissible.

>>134638339
>no i don't give you my money goodbye
it's so simple

>>134638399
>so go there
I can't mate, you get arrested if you go near the border.

>>134636943
You can go to Anguilla. There you don't have to pay taxes. It's really like a membership in a club.

>>134638297
Exactly. Violence is the right of passage which separates the wheat from the chaff.
It's the proving ground for young people

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>>134638339
But what if they're allowed to leave any time they want to

>>134638385
Would be affordable for the layman were hospitals not overcharging due to the costs of top-to-bottom regulations by the state.

>>134638420
>because you were born here we own you money
Fuck off UN.

>>134638450
so go somewhere else
if you don't like the laws of the land, just leave

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Our forefathers were wise in the fact they understood niggers just need some fried chicken, Watermelon and some drums to be happy, And a smart boss to tell them what to do.

Now that the illuminati has provided that for EVERYONE you're just unhappy that you're not on the team.

>>134636943

Homesteading theory isn't based on anything better than social contract theory.

It's all thin air, the difference is that I acknowledge it. While the natural law homesteading theorists scream their religion is based on absolute logic, ie. they are quite insane.

>>134638495
Doesn't matter. That's like saying
>hey 9 of us agree that we should destroy the house we're all living in
>you can move if you don't like it

>>134638420
>Born on patch of dirt.
>Given no choice in any major part because they are children
>Finally an adult.
>Realizes taxation is socially sanctioned extortion
>"Just leave if you don't like it"
>As if there is any state on this earth that does not have taxation.

Really clanks my marbles dude.

Then move to Somalia or go live in the wilderness if a few percent of your income is too much to ask for living in a civilization you greedy little cunt.

>>134638578
>pay up or we'll kick you out
Why is this acceptable to you?

>>134636943
What makes retards think AnCap won't devolve into a feudal society where the guy with the biggest army crowns himself King and start demanding tribute?

>>134638698
What's wrong with that?

>>134638731
>half of your income is a few %
I guess since commies want 100%.

>>134638698
so your system of choice would be
>9 out of ten decide to destroy the house they are living in
>the one person goes into rage because he don't want to and destroyes it himself
bullshit system

>>134638731
>a few percent
Underage who never paid taxes detected.

>>134638109
are docs and skinny jeans really that scary to you hicks?

>>134638339
that's why it's important that the laws be administered impartially and formulated with everyone's input.

I realize it may feel like that's what's happening (or not, since you're probably a neet poorfag who's just into libertarianism), but it's objectively not "hand over you're money" bad in any civilized democracy.

>>134638700
Move to Sudan or wherever. I mean, when all the places you might consider living happen to all have taxes, maybe you're consenting to taxation without realizing it. Like your mouth is saying "no" but your body is saying "yes", sort of thing.

>>134638743
Because by paying taxes government uses them do enforce the law, thus protecting citizens and care about my nation. I don't pay taxes for government, I pay taxes for my people.

>>134638770

They think riot kidz will organize local self defense squads but it won't go any farther than that, promise

>>134638743
when you participate in a society, and get to profit of of it, you have to follow the rules that society has agreed on, otherwise you get kicked out of that society
there is nothing wrong with that

>>134637319
The social contract that is turning all white countries into non-white countries?

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I want to pay taxes because I like driving on roads and also enjoy not having to pay highwaymen as I travel.

>>134638731
Civilization is a meme. It needs to die.

>>134636943
Because people love being slaves...it is so comfy sitting in rot and muck up to your neck once you get used to it...if you dont want to sit in the swamp with the rest ,you will be called crazy and all kinds of things lol
I really hope "modern society" collapses very soon so i can see what people really are like

>>134636943


Because they cannot imagine any another way of getting the things government do done.


>>134637174
>>134637278


So if I buy my own piece of land, with all debts paid, I am the sole owner, yet somehow I am still required to pay property tax. Explain further how I am expected to 'move away'

>>134637194

Which all can be provided privately, consenually.

>>134637210

Forced confiscation of wealth is a source of sustained social cohesion, got it.


>>134637308

I rob you, then I build roads all around your house, then I say, see, I need to continue stealing your shit, because you're using my roads, asshole, you should be grateful I'm not charging you more.

Also, if I've never been to hospital, following your logic, I should be excepted from all taxes going towards healthcare, as I never 'consented'? However I am forced to pay, even if I never use such services. Explain the morality behind this.


>>134637442

There is no designated land for those who don't like government though, is it? Man is not a aquatic being. If I was a fish I would have no issues with your point.

>>134637846

Until someone realized they need a road, then they will get together and pay for roads. Roads were built in America in 1800's with this financing .

HURR DURR HURR
>30 billion dollar aid to Israel yearly
Without taxcucks the following things wouldn't exist:
Israel
Isis
Refugee camps
Africa aid trips
Cuck TV propaganda
Government sponsored genocide

>>134637194
>I like having all of these things at once:
>>roads
No need for taxes for them, people would get them done
>>police
I prefer a gun
>>firefighters
Not needed unless you're a retard who lives in a cabin with poor electric installation.
>>healthcare
I prefer private medical care since that shit benefits mostly high cholesterol fat fucks.

>>134638564
>using the government's land should be free
Nobody really owns their own land. They're just licensed to do with it as they will from the state in exchange for a payment of taxes.

>>134638700
>As if there is any state on this earth that does not have taxation.
>everyone should be responsible for what everyone else is doing to you
Why is it America's problem that Mexico would also tax you or the UK's problem that France would? You don't want to be taxed by a particular country, you have options to avoid that tax.

>>134638506
>Would be affordable for the layman were hospitals not overcharging due to the costs of top-to-bottom regulations by the state.
There are far worse regulated countries than the US with far cheaper healthcare. Healthcare costs so much because nobody has forced hospitals and drug companies not to charge that much and because their customers in each market will pay whatever they can afford out of necessity.

>>134638916
Move to based countries then, aka "come home white man"

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>tfw no regulations

>>134638944
>So if I buy my own piece of land, with all debts paid, I am the sole owner, yet somehow I am still required to pay property tax. Explain further how I am expected to 'move away'
it's never your land you bought the right to build on it nothing more

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>>134639011

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Sit back and relax kids, Soon we'll have a tax free state, Free of legal restrictions.

>>134637078
No it wouldn't.

>>134638700

Now suppose we all agreed to assign absolute property rights and that patch of dirt the size of a state absolutely belonged to a single person (this is not purely theoretical, this happened in history, feudalism, and can thus happen again).

How is this child in a substantially different situation? The land owner still has absolute control over his life, it's just that the taxation is called rent.

>>134637288
/thread

>>134639011
Exactly, this is why AnCap are dummies.
_Some_ regulations are necessary.
Most libertarians nowadays are minarchists.

>>134638916
Actually, a lot of the people pushing for immigration are libertarians.

Reminder that libertarians don't believe in the social contract. Social contract theory and immigration policy are very separate, while libertarians are almost all proponents of open borders as a result of their anti-authoritarian, anti-coercion stance.

>>134636943
Then fuck off, parasite. You don't want to support the society, move to a place where it is not required.

>>134638851
You pay your taxes for the government to mismanage. Then charge take more of your money when that mismanaging causes budget deficits

>>134638847
Hmm. No, I think it's just an equal realization that taxation is unavoidable, while also realizing that someone should not have to give up the fruits of a capitalist society to not be taxed to poverty. So given your rationale the choices are live in objective poverty or live in subjective poverty that every year is inching closer to objective poverty.

>>134637174
>a little bit
See flag

>>134639162
>Actually, a lot of the people pushing for immigration are libertarians.
Do not mistaken left wing libertarians, which are more like hippies, and right wing libertarians.

>>134638944
>So if I buy my own piece of land, with all debts paid, I am the sole owner, yet somehow I am still required to pay property tax. Explain further how I am expected to 'move away'
Should a company or a private citizen be allowed to buy a bunch of land, set rules for that land, let people pay a one-time fee for the right to use part of the land in addition to a regular fee to mantain some infrastructure?

>>134638944
>which all can be provided privately, consenually
Yeah, police would corrupt the day it creates monopol, offering "safety" because if you don't pay -you get beaten up. You don't pay firefighters? Your house gets set aflame. You don't pay doctors? Your food suddenly gets poisoned. Every anarchist ideology would work IF people acted moral. They don't

>>134638868
Well if it's a promise I believe them...

>>134638968
What about the army? Do you think citizens would be able to defend the country with aks against chink invaders?

>>134637288
>>134639109
>what is sales tax
>what is property tax
>what is inheritance tax
>what is excise tax
Don't act dumb.

Tell me /pol/
Would you pay for everything for yourself if you wouldn't need to pay taxes then?

Is consent when sister no kick?

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>Be a perfect libertarian nonviolent utopia
>society next door looks like this

wat do?

>>134638968
>>>police
>I prefer a gun
Nice. You'd also prefer to hire a private investigator in the case someone close to you got murdered. A private investigator who'd have no authorithy to investigate in other people's premises because the land is their own and the investigator could kindly fuck off from their yard.
>>>firefighters
>Not needed unless you're a retard who lives in a cabin with poor electric installation.
Good luck in arid zones during summer.
>>>roads
>No need for taxes for them, people would get them done
MAGIC FAIRY DUST

>>134639383
Join

>>134639340
i never understand anarcho capitalism
capitalism = the right to own things
anarcho = take what you want

Adam Smith considered the topic of taxes on agricultural land (which he called 'the ordinary rent of land'), houses ('house-rents') and residential land values ('ground-rents') in The Wealth of Nations (Book 5, Chapter 2) he concluded that:

>Ground-rents, so far as they exceed the ordinary rent of land, are altogether owing to the good government of the sovereign, which, by protecting the industry either of the whole people, or of the inhabitants of some particular place, enables them to pay so much more than its real value for the ground which they build their houses upon… Nothing can be more reasonable than that a fund, which owes its existence to the good government of the state should be taxed peculiarly, or should contribute something more than the greater part of other funds, towards the support of that government.

>>134638944
>So if I buy my own piece of land, with all debts paid, I am the sole owner, yet somehow I am still required to pay property tax. Explain further how I am expected to 'move away'
Fair, enough, but you must campensate for all the things the government (read: everyone else in the society) do to make you piece of land valuable. Roads to get there, police and justice system to protect it, military to protect it, environmental regulation to make sure it is not randomly polluted...

Or give up the state protections, and I will show up and negotiate with a claw hammer until I own everything you have. Fucking parasite.

>>134639383

Ask if they'll let me in if I join the army.

>>134636943
Because people in a democracy decide for themselves if taxation is needed to protect itself.

>>134639427
Anarcho+something never made sense to me.
Either it's NOTHING, so no archy whatsoever, either there's something, so... there's archy.

I'm a minarchist and I never understood any anarcho-something ideology.

>>134638944
>There is no designated land for those who don't like government though, is it?
You are welcome to build your own. You're gonna need a shitton of sand.

>>134637078

This.

The fucking fairy dust makes zero sense.

>>134636943

You have to pay taxes because that is what God and Jesus commands you to do.

>Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For qthere is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you rwill receive his approval, 4 for she is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, tan avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also ufor the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 vPay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

>In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

>>134639383
>literally this
Imagine your government is no more because all your nation believes in utopia and acts 100% moral, no one steals, there are no monopolies no one uses force for their profit.
Then your neighbors, with authoritarian governments, have something you don't. Army. Now your "country" doesn't exist.

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>>134639383
Simply tell them that you respect their border and their rights, and that they shouldn't tread on you.

Libertarians are non-violent, but not pacifists.

>>134638074
What? Are you trying to say that even though you use the product your wealth is being stolen?

>>134639468
>Because people in a democracy decide for themselves if taxation is needed to protect itself.
Weird, I never voted for the taxes I paid.

>>134639493
>You are welcome to build your own
No actually, you're not.

>>134639507
>You have to pay taxes because that is what God and Jesus commands you to do.
Authority fallacy. Not an argument.

>>134639490

Anarcho-capitalists just borrow the anarchy moniker to give themselves some philosophical appearance. Anarchy as retarded as it is, is at least self-consistent and only errs in assumptions it makes about humans.

Anarcho-capitalism on the other hand is just raving lunacy.

>>134639620
Yes, actually, you are. International waters are a thing. Go crazy.

>>134639597
>these are the rules, everyone agrees?
>9/10 yes
>Weird, I never voted for the taxes I paid.
Oh sorry here take your own land do what you want have your own government have fun.
Idiot

>>134638847
>laws should be administered impartially
>that's why we take money from high income people and give it to low income people
If the law depends on your income level it's not the same law for everybody.
Also daily reminder that income taxes are unconstitutional.

>>134638939
You don't need shit to collapse to see what things are like...

>>134638944
>Forced confiscation of wealth is a source of sustained social cohesion, got it.
he's talking about social contract theory, which objectively is a source of social cohesion

>Explain the morality behind this.
do you really not understand the other folks' argument by now?

>Roads were built in America in 1800's with this financing .
lolbert pls

>>134639214
I'm not, stop no-true-scotsman-ing

>>134639326
SHALL

>>134639371
yes, or goat only kick twice, or boy no cry, consent is

>>134639433
shh, don't tell them what Smith actually said, you'll just confuse them

>>134639620
>expecting it would be different in Ancap
>be me
>a rich jew with semi military organization that keeps thousands of people "safe and secure"
>tell everyone that land belongs to me and if you want to build something on it you have to pay me rent
>some nazi tells me to fuck off and builds a house made out of shit
>I command my people to destroy it and kill him
>I love ancap

>>134639227
libertarians never answer this because they have no answer to this
libertarianism is an irrational opposition to goverhment but they are incapable of describing the difference between a private enterprise and a government

You are free to leave the country anytime. Get off the government's property, faggot.

>>134639597
Learn about democracy then come back. You sound retarded and your arguments are nonsensical.

>>134639883
You go first i demand change
Nazi scum

>>134636943
Look at fucking Greece, that's what happens when a population collectively decides not to pay taxes.

On a side note, I do think the input and output of at least our tax system should be better regulated.
Way to many rich people and corporations manage do dodge taxes, and too much money is wasted by diplomats having fancy dinners with other diplomats, ordering $10,000 bottles of champagne and whatnot.
Also too much money is wasted in healthcare. Too many high-up "inspectors" who don't do any real work but get paid huge salaries.
This stuff should be more transparent.

>>134639725
>Oh sorry here take your own land do what you want have your own government have fun
Great, thanks.

>>134639723
The last time anyone tried making an independent nation on an uninhibited island in international waters the nearest country invaded them and took over after they built a bit of infrastructure.

I'd pay taxes over living with a bunch of beheading Somalis.

Fuck off somewhere OP, cockgoblin.

>>134639011
Wow its almost as if massive overbreeding in an already overcrowded poor as fuck commie shithole has negative effects

>>134639933
Shoo shoo commie faggot, go starve elsewhere. Stop begging me for reparations.

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>>134639948
N..no give it back it's mine

>>134639862
Because your question is faulty. The government doesn't own all the land within the state's borders. It's not allowed to do whatever it want's to people living inside them.

>>134639921
I disagree with being bound to abide by non-NAP rules I never agreed to.
Democracy is not the issue.

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>>134639995
No man, it's just chinks being chinks

>>134638215
I never consented to the NAP bloobloobloo. Ok guys so if you just consent to this ONE thing you won't have to consent to anything else don't worry. Oh yeah and if you fail to consent and violate the thing you never consented to when residing anywhere near me you just might be on the wrong end of retaliatory violence.

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>>134639963
>I'd pay taxes over living with a bunch of beheading Somalis.
Better change country then.

>>134640027
>destroyes half the world
>kills billions of people
>attacks people based on stupid shit like skin colour
>HURR DURR I didn't do anything why do you want an apology?

>>134637174
>the majority agreed
almost everyone in every country would not pay taxes if it was optional

>>134638974
Yes... Hospitals would be forced to charge less were it not mandated by the government that hospitals must give care to anyone no matter the cost and if the patient can afford it (Which is a moral issue and I think most medical centers would do this regardless) while the government also mandates health insurance coverage, of which hospitals will usually triple the bill for insurers, because why wouldn't they? Any business would charge an entity with almost unlimited funds as much as they can get away with.

>>134640121
>billions
Top fucking kek

>>134640084
>I never consented to the NAP bloobloobloo
The NAP is different because it is precisely about not treading on other people's freedom and liberty. This is what separated us from anarchy.

It's not about giving money to random niggers and jews by paying taxes for non-essential things.

>>134640047
>The government doesn't own all the land within the state's borders.
What is the difference?

>>134640136
That's why they're mandatory.

>>134640121
>kills billions of people
At least six billions, amiright.

>>134640138
You just simultaneously argued that hospitals have to charge more to cover increased costs and hospitals charge triple what they need to.

>>134640210
>what's the difference between ownership and stewardship

>>134640121
Communists killed at least several times more than Nazis ever did my friend. In fact so far it's been the most destructive ideology, more than other political ideologies, more than religion, anything. The Spanish Inquisition killed like 5000 people over several hundred years. How many was the NKVD responsible for over a few decades?

It's an essential element of the social contract and one of the most obvious necessary evils

>consent to live in a country
>surprised you have to live by its laws
You sound like a muslim

>>134636943
You choose to live on land that belongs to a country. If you don't want to pay you can leave, change laws via democratic process or take over the land with force and institute your own government. Oh and going to jail is an option too.

>>134636943
Want an army ? Needs tax
Want public Healthcare and transports ?
Need tax.
Etc.

Sure, states have their failings, but they usually work more efficiently. Why ?
The goal.
One has a mission of public service.
The other just want to milk you.

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>>134639862
Adding flag choice was a mistake. This dishonest faggot is using an ancap flag whilst supporting coercive state power. Looks like he was too autistic and forgot to switch back.

>>134640047
>The government doesn't own all the land within the state's borders.
Yes. Yes it does. That's why the government can take whatever fucking land it wants for public works, just ask literally any farmer that has been assfucked by a highway or railroad.

>>134640338
This

>>134640392
Being an ancap is intellectually dishonest.

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>>134640454
>intellectually dishonest.
No, it's retardedly dishonest.

>>134640434
Then you have shitty freedom. In Poland government must buy land from private owner before it does anything on it

>>134640189
Is buildingmy house ten stories tall and blocking the sun from your property for half the day a violation of the NAP? There are more ways of stepping on people's toes than killing or stealing, and I just used a fairly tame example. What if my house is built to shitty standards and in the process of burning down sets your property on fire? There are countless examples where a mediator is needed. Taxes are another issue but the fundamental need for an arbitrator is obvious. Also the NAP ensures that your vision is not logically consistent due to it just being there arbitrarily. Not that most ideologies are consistent, but I'm just saying we're pretty much just talking practicality at this point

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>>134639963
>I'd pay taxes over living with a bunch of beheading Somalis.
Those aren't mutually exclusive.

>>134640369
>Sure, states have their failings, but they usually work more efficiently
False. Lack of competition brings low quality goods and service.

>>134640047
>The government doesn't own all the land within the state's borders
Refuse to pay your property taxes, see what happen.

>>134640512
>Then you have shitty freedom. In Poland government must buy land from private owner before it does anything on it
Same thing in the USA. But the owner can't refuse.

>>134640357
Land doesn't belong to a country. It belongs to it's citizens - to individuals in the case of private property and to everyone in the case public property. You don't choose where you are born and you can only move to countries that want to accept you. Simply being born somewhere doesn't give your government the right to a portion of your income. The democratic process is no justification because of: >>134638339

>>134640454
Being ancap is the only only logicly consistent ideology.

>>134636943
>What makes taxation not theft?
The fact that you live on civilized land, receive different kinds of government services (such as muh roads) and don't have to deal with your fellow men by pointing guns at each other?

>>134640286
So what is a government allowed to do that a private enterprise isn't. Libertarians have a long list of things a government isn't allowed to do, but if a government dosn't have any exclusive rights, what separates it from a company that is restricted compared to other governments.
>>134640392
I'm just using whatever flag I think will get the most responses. I'm not an ancap and I'm not pretending to be one.

>>134640591
A country is its citizens.
>You don't choose where you are born and you can only move to countries that want to accept you.
Why is that your country's problem?
>Simply being born somewhere doesn't give your government the right to a portion of your income.
Right, using their land without asking does. That's why illegals have to pay taxes too.

>>134640529
How is a democratic system not an economy of sorts. Votes or appointed positions as currency, rewarding people for providing a service that voters are content with. Not much different than buying a product because it's better than an alternative. What ancaps and libertarians fail to understand is that the government is just another corporation, that coercion is a given, and that the only difference is who is coercing who and how

>>134640434
It can't "take" anything. It has to purchase it from the citizen if it's not already public land. The citizen can be forced to sell in many countries but I don't think that should be allowed.

>>134640517
I recognize that the NAP is not perfect, this is why I'm more of a minarchist than a pure libertarian, some regulations are necessary, but big government is a cancer.

>>134640660
*compared to other companies, is what I meant to say

>>134639178
>taxed to poverty.
I don't know about where you live, but if people are being taxed to poverty then something is very wrong with the system.

>subjective poverty
you mean getting triggered by paying taxes? I don't know, I'm tired and you need moar greentext.

>>134639752
>If the law depends on your income level it's not the same law for everybody.
It's the same in the sense that it's only a function of income and not whether e.g. you're on the spectrum or other nonsense.
>Also daily reminder that I have private definitions of what is or isn't legal that I think are more important than the commonly agreed definitions even though my definitions are based on skeezy anti-government propaganda
FTFY

>>134640136
That's obviously not true.

>>134640189
>This is what separated us from anarchy.
Except from a game-theoretic perspective, where people are choosing ideologies to maximize their utility under uncertainty, your framework gives them no incentive to agree to your NAP.

In social contract theory, however, there is a reciprocity of concern that reduces individual risk and makes acceptance of the social contract a "rational" utility-maximizing decision for people on the bottom.

Libertarians might say that their theory has higher utility for people on top, but in fact by not enabling the "losers" to maximize utility by accepting the libertarian philosophy they essentially force its rejection, i.e.
>"you're violating the NAP, go die in the gutter from preventable illness, you have no right to take my money to buy penicillin!"
>"why the fuck should I care what you think, you're willing to let me die in the gutter instead of giving me money for penicillin!"
So libertarianism actually leads to anarchy, while social contract theory avoids it. Unless you're going to go full Pinochet.

>>134640578
>but the owner can't refuse
That's where the law differs
;)

>>134640649
As expected from a socialist, you think everyone thinks the same.

>>134640660
Because the government has a constitution it has to abide by. Private enterprises do not. The government only has so much power as it's citizens are willing to give it. Private enterprises have near absolute power over their property.

>>134640706
>The citizen can be forced to sell in many countries but I don't think that should be allowed.
You literally could not perform large scale public works without total latitude in where to place it. Highways would have to zigzag all over the fucking place if they could be completed at all otherwise.
>It has to purchase it from the citizen if it's not already public land.
It's less a purchase and more a penalty paid for breaking a lease. You have to consent to a purchase, at least nominally.

>>134640709
That's fair. What frustrates me is when people place ideology ahead of practicality and stubbornly refuse to accept that the NAP doesn't solve everything. Accepting limitations shows you're politically mature, and I can respect that.

>>134640454
>>134640504
In general, a smaller government is more effective and prosperity is more likely. Not only is it tactically smart, but more ethical as well because the freedom of the individuals are prioritized.

>Roads

Infrastructure and firefighters are barely a sliver of our taxes. You wouldn't have libertarians if the government just did shit like roads.
Europe is a perfect example of why big government is for cucks.
The taxes are sky high, you have idiotic and restrictive laws, and your economies are stagnant.

Oh, and that government you """consented""" to living under is demographically replacing you and avoiding arresting child rapists.
Of course, you sheep can't do anything about it because you have no guns.

>>134640762
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_Domain_(film)
Literally about Poland, friend.

>>134640737
>your framework gives them no incentive to agree to your NAP
The fact that I will shoot you if you break the NAP is a pretty nice incentive, I would believe.

But you made a fair point, I'll give you that.

>>134640827
So? if the person who's land you want to utilise doesn't want to sell that's your problem. Offer a better price or change your plans.

>>134640902
if threats of violence are a valid way to achieve consent then what are we doing in this thread?

>>134637210
>quadruple digit IQ will realize all money eventually ends up in the hands of jews so it doesnt matter in the end

>>134640909
>if the person who's land you want to utilise doesn't want to sell that's your problem. Offer a better price or change your plans.
Yeah, that's how it would work if the government was actually purchasing land.

It isn't. The government owns all the land.

>>134639227
>>134639037


Given full disclosure of such a deal upon signing I see no wrong with companies/citizens doing this.

The state acknowledges private ownership (in my country) yet still it forces the property tax, which is on way to being implemented in all municipalities. However this property tax is a new phenomenon, arising in the 2000's. Therefore I find it hard to believe it is need for anything other that gathering more taxes for politicians to spend.


When you buy a piece of land (speaking for my own country) You are the owner of that property. The state can play a role, but only in defending your right to that property if there arises disputes. This happens when you officially declare the property yours with a document with the blessing of the state. Which of course is also a fee to do.

>>134639288

Read it again kurwa. "It can be provided consenually, and privately."
The fact that you are able to choose not to pay for roads/fire fighters/police/doctors doesn't mean you shouldn't.
If rape becomes illegal, that doesn't mean we can't have sex now does it?

>>134639433
That is actually a decent argument. I would love to have that option to opt out, but I don't. I'd greet you with weapons, so your hammer won't do you any good. The argument however is against property tax. Assuming I pay all other taxes which presumably cover all these expenses already. There is no sensible defence for property tax. The fact that you own something gives a 3rd party right to demand a payment?
And what if I have never received a benefit from the state regarding my property, should I still be paying for these fantasy protections?

>>134639493

So, you're saying there are no protections laid upon international waters against claiming it as your own? It doesn't seem right to me.

>>134640956
>if threats of violence are a valid way to achieve consent then what are we doing in this thread?
I would not categorize "protecting your own liberties" as "forcing the consent of others to not tread on you".
But I won't argue semantics. I am not a pacifist.

>>134639037
>Being this ignorant.

You don't own the land, you own the right to use it for whatever use you and the government can agree on. It always amazes me that libertardians have such a childlike understanding of property rights and nations.

>>134640996
No the government is using it's monopoly on force to rob you of your land. The fact that modern governments have such overreaching power and that they basically de facto own all of it's land and citizens doesn't mean they actually own all of it's land and citizens.

>>134640909
You're being consistent but not paying any mind to ensuring that anything actually works properly in reality. I like having roads connecting places I need to go. Having some sort of standard to demonstrate there was an attempt to find other routes is fine, but at the end of the day we need highways. Maybe in ancap paradise you never need to leave your hometown, but it seems a wee bit impractical. Now if you didn't like eminent domain when it's used to make room for a new Walmart, or don't like how the system used to value property works, etc, then we'd have some common ground

>>134641023
>read it again
Are you completely retarded? It can be provided consensually but it won't be, you'll be forced to it but instead of government it'll be a rich jew with "police".

>>134641123
Is a company allowed to use force to enforce the rules it set for its land?

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How would you build a freeway in 'faggot-land'?.

>>134641104
It's fine, I'm just picking nits

>>134641200
Child slave labor, the way Jesus intended

>>134640874
Replace muslims with niggers and spics and sky high taxes with incredibly underdeveloped infrastructure and social security and you have the US.

>>134641200
Here in western Europe, most freeway are private and they work better than public ones.

When you want to use them you throw 1~ EUR inside the machine or purchase for a monthly/yearly fee.

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>using infrastructure built by taxes to complain about taxes
>mfw
As flawed as humanity is cohesion through a government and taxation can civilization be brought into existence, none of us has a right to withold our tax dollars to pay for what WE want as such EVERYONE must pay their taxes so WE may all enjoy the fruits(good/bad) of our system of government.

By all means go fuck off to some remote forest abyss if you don't want to continue giving tax dollars to the big scurry GUBMNT and live in paradise as you realize living by yourself is a meme and when you inevitably reach old age you'll have to take care of yourself either returning to civilization or pop your brain's cherry with a 9mm bullet.

>>134641155
Why wouldn't private enterprises be able to acquire land to construct roads? Why wouldn't governments be able to do that even if they couldn't rob their citizens of their land?

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>>134641200

>>134641023
>So, you're saying there are no protections laid upon international waters against claiming it as your own?
The protection is there has to be land there and nobody else has claimed said land.

You can't just claim an abandoned oil rig or something. You won't be eligible for territorial waters or international recognition in that instance.

That said, you're free to renounce all citizenships and live at sea, but that's not particularly convenient if you need shit like fresh water.

There is fuck all regulation for creating or finding your own island (finding in the case of a new island from a volcano because satellites and shit have pretty much eliminated all of the undiscovered ones).

There isn't some blanket treaty blocking such action like there is in the case of Antarctica.

>>134641191
Yes. But it can't use force to take your wallet away if you're on their property.

>>134641273
I can confirm this

>>134636943
taxation is slavery

>>134641261
Areas like Detroit are run by communists and are full of blacks. White areas are different.
Enjoy a Muslim gang raping you child and you being unable to stop them.
Oh, don't forget to lick the boots of the police officers unwilling to do anything about it

>>134641123
>modern governments
Governments owning all the land is not a recent phenomenon

>>134641122

I don't understand. Do you suggest it's really the state that owns all property and thus only letting citizens 'rent' from them?

That is the only way out I can see, but then the state is committing massive fraud. By stating there is such a thing as private property.

If this is true it is not something we an simply sweep under the rug and state: "Move somewhere else."

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>>134641254
>
Big burly working class builders aren't interested in limp wristed faggots telling them what to do.

>>134641295
Assuming the land you're building in is not frontier and actually owned by people, you need to find people willing to sell. What if you're restricted by geography? If you recall grade school history lessons about rail routes to California you'll remember how few options you sometimes have. If you've got some stubborn farmers, there might be no highway. No highway and maybe a town dies because it loses all commerce. Most people will be convinced by enough money, but some people have different reasons for not selling

>>134641389
Yea you're right. Monarchs used to have actual ownership of all of the land. Then there was a century or 2 of actual limited governments. And now we're here. I meant current as opposed to say 100 or 200 years ago.

>>134637475
>There is consent. When there isn't, it's called a rebellion.

>>134641273
Well, highways have high traffics, so a lot of people need them and it's just profitable to build them. But small roads won't be and no one will build them

>>134641490
This is a Christian board, stop posting gay porn

>>134641361
what is it allowed to do when you live on their property but don't pay your rent?

>>134636943
Then leave, you fucking no tax paying degenerate.
Get the fuck out of my country, degenerate.

>>134641503
What is an example of an actual limited government? Country and time period if you would, and it'd make things easier if you summarized how it was limited and not just smaller

>>134636943
I support taxation because it's a realistic means of convincing people to support a somewhat more libertarian society. I'd rather a night-watchman state, but it won't realistically happen.

>>134641518
>But small roads won't be and no one will build them
you know all the roads in the US were originally created by private parties. it was only after roads and cities were established that the government came in and started building roads (with the citizens money of course) and claiming they were the source of all good in the world.

roads are a bullshit meme.

everything is built by private individuals with private money. sometimes the government just steals the money first.

>>134636943

>What makes sex not rape
>Consent

So I guess Pedophilia is fine as long as the child consents.

>>134641598
They can throw you off and sue you for breaking your rent contract.

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Who the fuck would build roads for somebody else that they will never use?.

>>134641646
>you know all the roads in the US were originally created by private parties
Chain gangs aren't private parties

>>134641518
>Well, highways have high traffics, so a lot of people need them and it's just profitable to build them. But small roads won't be and no one will build them
I dunno man.
Like for example, you could expend the freeway system and make it so a corporation could make most small roads and ask people to purchase a monthly pass that they can stick on their car.
It's not _that_ different from what is made today, but there's a consent dimension added to it, and only people using them will pay for them.

Also, there would be a LOT MORE private transportation (tram, metro, buses) if there was less govt regulations.

>>134641686
so should a goverment be allowed to throw you out for not paying taxes then?

>>134641646
I wonder what quality they were :-)

>>134641710
Benjamin Wright

>>134641376
>be American
>get shot for not tipping your policeman and Local Militia(tm)

There are so many areas in the US being on par with Eastern Europe it's not even funny. You're just looking at the average income in your country with Mr. Shekelstein earning 10 million a year while millions serve their time in disease-ridden jails or wasting away as drug addicts.

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>>134641646
You going to pay for a freeway to your gay techno club?.

>>134641679
It can be argued that under a certain age, a person does not have the cognitive capacity of understand the ramifications of some type of consent.

That's why people under 60 of IQ can't argue to sex. Neither do children, or people with severe mental illness.

Woh, I agree that taxation is the form but hey, it is not like you don't have a choice. Avoid paying taxes is the way of the rich. It is not evading. Avoid.

>>134641613
USA 1776 - about 1900.
>no direct taxation (income tax)
>no social security
>no medicare
>much fewer regulations
Also there isn't much of a difference between a small and a limited government. Limited just means it's not supposed to grow.

>>134641753
Well yeah but what's stopping them from doing it now?

>>134641847
>>134641679
But yes, in a pure anarchist logic, there's no central power to enforce this hypothetical rule. This is why anarchy is stupid.

_Some_ laws and regulations are a necessary evil.

>>134641847

>Lolbetardians can't understand a joke.

>>134641781
The main highway through my town was over capacity the day it was completed and has been over capacity in the decades since despite basically constant construction to expand it.

>>134641824
White collar criminals don't get shot.

They get tennis practice.

>>134641890
>Well yeah but what's stopping them from doing it now?
The govt own the roads.

>>134637174
Not an ancap but this argument is weak as, fucking leech doesn't even show his flag

>>134641767
They throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes so they already do that. Also yes they should be allowed to punish you for not following the rules. I just think the rules are retarded/immoral.

>>134641686
>>134641767
Played like a fiddle. Bravo.

>>134641824
We have poor areas because of niggers.
Again, you're avoiding the reality that you can't improve your living standard, and that you are u worthy to be a protector of your family.
When Mohamed starts raping your wife, what are you going to do? Show him a Sargon video?

>>134641926
>the main highway
>a small road
thanks for understanding the subject

>>134641898
>Lolbetardians can't understand a joke.
You're one joke away from causing me emotional distress, thus breaking the NAP, thus allowing me to kill you on the spot.

>>134641883
The life expectancy in the USA in 1900 was sub 48 years old.

What you're calling not much of a difference is a fuckmassive lifespan increase.

>>134641273
>western europe
haha, you live in a shithole

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Work is slavery. Taxation is theft. Society is a joke.

>>134641977
But law in USA doesnt prevent owning builded by a private company roads, does it?

>>134641781
>I wonder what quality they were :-)
well, they were for horses and wagons and walking and shit, so it was a bit different.

there is no reason to think that people wouldn't build roads privately if the government didn't.

private developers just offload the cost of infrastructure onto the taxpayers, but if they couldn't they would build the roads for their housing developments themselves. otherwise they would be out of business.

there are private corporations that get along just fine and build all sorts of things without having the right to steal other peoples money.

if a corporation feels that it needs the right to steal people's money in order to survive it is probably run by incompetents and should be abolished.

>>134642062
>haha, you live in a shithole
I currently live in France, so, well, according to your criteria, it may be.

>>134641998
It was a small road when it was "completed"

Statism truly is a cult, as evidenced by the answers of many in this thread. I love lines like "hurr if you don't agree then leave". Leave where, exactly? There isn't a single parcel of this planet that hasn't been claimed by a state. We couldn't even make an artificial island in international waters even if we wanted to.
The only option left is space, time to leave the statist cucks with their socialism and the gazillions of shitskins they love so much to pay taxes for (while their wives give birth to brown mongrels) while we colonize the moon and Mars and make them libertarian utopia, all the while keeping a vast arsenal of nukes if the cucks ever try to bring us down.

>>134642060
>lifespan increases because of advances in technology
>hurr durr it was the government
Obviously I prefer the current technology. Just remember that it was developed despite the government not because of it.

>>134642103
>But law in USA doesnt prevent owning builded by a private company roads, does it?
Well technically no, but since all roads/public places are owned by the govt, you'd have to have the govt's authorization to have such a project.

This is why they only do it for highway and such, it costs a shitload of money and the local govt doesn't have the funds to do it themselves.

But because of "public spaces" principle, a govt will never sell most roads.

>>134636943
then don't live in a nation state with any kind of infrastructure

>>134637174
>So your last option would be leaving.
That's why the US taxes the income of citizens living abroad?

>>134636943
money is printed by the state and is theirs. If you don't like that system, you'll have to stop using money because as long as you do, you are indeed using their services and thus de facto have to pay them back. Same for roads.

>>134641309

Ok, after searching it's looks to be legal. You're right. However, you can't say:
"Just move somewhere else"

When 'somewhere else' requires the amassed fortunes of Bill Gates and the Rothschilds to create. It is simply not feasible. The unclaimed areas in international waters are 1000+ meters deep. You might as well come back at ancaps with "Hey you're free to move to Mars or the moon, just rent a rocket, then terraform the thing, you'd basically have a planet for yourself."

>>134637380
You realize without the state, your bitch nigga self is just going to get bulldozed by whatever local militia (headed by someone less autistic than you), wants your land and is strong enough in arms and numbers to take it from you, right?

>>134636943
>chose to live in a state where you know they tax
>OMG WTF IS THIS TAX! THEY STEALING FROM ME!

by willingly living here and being part of this society and using this countries resources you consent to being taxed
don't like it then leave you sovereign citizen tier tard

>>134641767
Also you enter a rent contract voluntarily. You aren't taxed voluntarily.

>>134638885
If society agrees then what's your argument against voluntary government financing?

>>134642248
>If you don't like that system, you'll have to stop using money
But my company is legally forced to pay me with govt approved money. And most businesses are forced to not accept other kind of currencies.
What now?

>>134637559
>Rape your daughter
>Throw a couple hundred dollar bills on her once finished
IT WAS CONSENSUAL I SWEAR

>>134641994
Why are you dodging the issue that there are way many niggers in the US, absolute or in percentage of the whole population who are already raping way more people than in Europe. And we're not even counting all the other felonies and not counting spics. Nobody bats an eye if there's yet another gang riot or when another child is raped in the US but ohh the terror of something happening in Europe.

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>>134642362
Hot.

>>134639592
Yes, are you stupid?

>>134642161
>Statism truly is a cult
people are naturally irrational and superstitious. if they aren't believing in one stupid religion it will be another. the modern atheist state was created by people who studied the systems of control used by the catholic church and copied and evolved them so it is the same shit with different names.

>>134642211
>This is why they only do it for highway and such
And it wouldn't change in ancap, only if a coalition of then public now private companies such as healthcare and security forces would complain and put their money for building companies.
But such coalition is actually just a primitive government which is against ideology of ancap.

>>134637174
>Vote.
Yeah because that works.
>Move.
Implying people can just get up and move.
>Majority of people consent.
The majority of people stopped caring because they think this is the way the cookie crumbles.

>>134642286
Nigger, go live in a place where there is no functional state then, like sudan or the northern half of the dem republic of congo, or most of the middle east. It ain't a good time. There's a reason why people socially aggregate you ponce.

>>134642286
Yes you are. Just leave if you don't like the rules the society you live in has agreed on.
>>134642290
You shouldn't be allowed to profit from society if you don't contribute to it. If you don't like it, leave.

>>134641883
Yeah I mean you don't need to use eminent domain much when there's no land to seize in the first place. Or cars to drive on the roads you might build. I think the effect of technology and other external factors on governance is understated. It's not just about how people feel and what they want.there are physical constraints. I think we'd all agree that comparing the mess that is commuting in Atlanta to walking down Main Street in your small town is different. I feel somewhat bad now that you've given me an example because it doesn't seem worth the effort to try to account for everything that's changed and respond directly.

How about I just address the characteristics you mentioned it didn't have instead. I'm not a fan of social security, Medicare or Medicaid, and I'm ambivalent on income tax. Assuming there aren't drastic changes to spending, as in it doesn't get cut down ninety percent suddenly, what might be another revenue source? I've always favored a consumption tax, perhaps exempting basic goods like food or things used for grooming, but is there something else you had in mind?

because consent of rich assholes is not more important than the welfare of the people

>HELP MY HOUSE IS ON FIRE
>sir, how much cash do you have on you right now?

>>134642484
Which then brings us to a picture I posted almost and hour ago
>>134639340

>>134642528
>You shouldn't be allowed to profit from society if you don't contribute to it. If you don't like it, leave.
wrong. i have as much right to the earth as anyone else. majority conveys no right. if society doesn't like my rules they can leave.

>>134642494
>because you were born here we own your money
Yea how about you fuck right off.
Also who ever said about having a non functional state? I think a government should exist to: prevent violence and theft and enforce contracts. Sudan doesn't have that so I'm not moving there.

File: xc.png (171KB, 458x449px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 458x449px

>>134640055
I never agreed not to commit murder and theft either. Therefore I should be permitted to kill and steal without consequence.

Listen to yourself. At least get some help from Lauren Southern (Canadian Libertarian candidate). You make all ancaps seem like retarded morons.

>>134642428
Hey dumbass, you can still go live in a place without a functional state like most of sub-saharan africa. Nobody is stopping you. If you think needing to defend your land with your life every single fucking day because there isn't a state to enforce laws, is worth it, then go for it. Nobody is going to stop you.

>>134641273

Public private partnership, the public side handles the dispossession of the game theory optimizers and the curmudgeon's who want to die on their land ... the private side handles taking all the profit.

>>134642649
And how is gov going to do that without income?

>>134642290

Now this Brit has got the right idea.

Should citizens be able to decide what their taxes are spent on?

> YES

Checkbox system.
byebye asylum/refugees

Healthcare for old ( )
Healthcare for Children/adults ( )
Education of Children ( )
Highschool ( )
Firefirghters ( )
Police ( )
Shitskin gibmedats ( )
Foreign aid ( )
university ( )
public transpot ( )
Muh roads ( )
Military ( )

everyone pays 25% no exceptions. If you tick more than one box it will be divided equally. tick none means all. the corresponding agencies bureaucracies would have to cope with what they got.

I would call this true democracy.

>>134642649
Well, you don't get a government that has the capacity to enforce contracts and laws without paying taxes you autistic cunt. That's how they fund the capacity to enforce contracts and laws is through taxation.

>>134636943

I don't see much problem with taking money if it goes into creating a nicer safer environment where we can all make money and not die. Paying for upkeep. it means we don't have to waste energy on that task ourselves.

Redistributive taxation on the other hand is literally just stealing to give to others to spend on beer, TVs and loterry tickets, and I can't see any reason why that's justice. It's the dumbest thing everyone supports.

We should all play the same tax percentage.

>>134642711
This is actually fair and a good idea overall. For liberals of course

>>134636943
because taxation supports you?

>>134642711
Most people are fucking dumb though, yourself included.

>>134642385
The US is a big country. One of our states is the size of your pissant European countries. I would not assume that France and poland are the same simply because they are in the euopean union.

All the problems you mentioned are unique to inner city niggers. Once again, the US is more a conglomerate of 50 countries. You also downplay the issues Europe is having with immigration.

Child raping Muslims go free, yet mean tweets about Islam lands you in jail.
Just admit it, youre leftist commie scum who probably doesn't lift and weighs less than 150 pounds.

>>134642660
>I never agreed not to commit murder and theft either. Therefore I should be permitted to kill and steal without consequence.
No, because you are treading on someone else's liberty.

>>134642649
What about building codes or regulations requiring certain information be disclosed, about, well, anything, it doesn't really matter. Information and transparency is the most important part of a functional market. Does the paint on my kid's toys have lead in it? Is there cocaine in my soda? Etc. I think there are basic duties beyond enforcing contracts

>>134642660
>I never agreed not to commit murder and theft either. Therefore I should be permitted to kill and steal without consequence.
No, because you are treading on someone else's liberty.

Also I'm not ancap, fuck ancap. I'm a minarchist-right wing-libertarian.

>>134642703
>>134642752
Perhaps I wasn't exactly clear and I understand how posting in a "taxation is theft" thread would make it seem like I'm against all forms of taxation. I'm actually not. Just the direct ones (income tax, medicare tax and such). Indirect taxation is perfectly fine.

>the year is 2079 in ancapistan
>mark zuckerberg has finished purchasing all property in world, all businesses, all resources - no one can hope to compete lest be denied food, water, electricity, road access, etc
>to live on his land, you have to pay 80% of your income, otherwise you are violating his NAP and your body will be requisitioned for organs
>must obey all of his rules, etc, you are tenants after all

ancaps sure love freedom

>>134642780
>Redistributive taxation on the other hand is literally just stealing to give to others to spend on beer, TVs and loterry tickets, and I can't see any reason why that's justice. It's the dumbest thing everyone supports.

That's excellent and be thankful that you're entitled to express your democratic right during election and support the party which best represents your viewpoint. If you lose however, you're bound by the choice of the majority.

Taxes wouldn't be a problem if the people could choose and see where that tax money goes too.

Like, if acountry gives 100mill to charity, i'd say the people should be informed first. If they want to pay 6 mill for renovating a playground, ask the people from that entire city first.

If they're making electric car chargers, ask the people first. Because hybrid car owners dont exclusively pay for this, partially everyone does.

>>134642290
>If society agrees then what's your argument against voluntary government financing?
if the government is financed voluntarily then it is just another private corporation.

you have to remember that in the US the federal and state governments own over 50% of the total land.

So the government not only owns more land than anyone else, and makes money off it, and claims ownership of water, radio spectrum, etc, and makes money off it, and claims the right to all kinds of legal property (patents, trademarks, etc) and makes money off it, but then they tax everyone on top of that.

it the government cannot survive as an institution without taxes, while owning 50% of the fucking land, then it does not deserve to survive.

>>134642864
In what way is stealing something from someone restricting their liberty? Killing someone steals their agency I guess, but how does stealing do such a thing? I guess I'm just looking for a general definition of liberty in this context?

>>134642711
While this seems nice, there will be some categories that are very highly mismanaged and people won't pay for them even if it's necessary.
Also, half the budget of each categories will now become for propaganda, PR, and publicity purposes.

>>134642814
Sorry Amerilard, 6'4" 240lbs and being able to lift your fat halfnigger mother at least 4 times a day.

Nice try though I hope you don't get shot by a nigger, a cop or a niggercop today.

>>134642711
>Being able to choose whether to support the military or not.

Have fun with retarded lefties pulling their cash completely or trying to lobby the military to remove the things they don't like, like nukes or patriarchal fitness standards.

>>134642711
>>134642788

imagine what would happen to the refugees in western europe

>>134642799
YES BUT IT WILL BECOME BLATANTLY APPARENT IN THIS CASE.

Actually I think most western Europeans will not spend their own money on housing invaders, if citizens could control their taxes refugees would get rekt. media tries its hardest to portray western europe as tolerant and generous towards muslims, but polls say otherwise.

>>134642794
>because taxation supports you?
What if I disagree with that statement?

>>134636943
Because some of us know the average person is too stupid to do the right thing to support a civilized society. If we didn't institute a tax people would waste all of their money on bullshit like 300 dollar shoes and all important public services would fall by the wayside.

>>134643021
Liberty of property, yes.

>>134643126
But also what would happen to police and army. Lefties hate both.

>>134642362
Hey you autistic larper, why don't you quit pretending you'd be a landowning noble in stateless society (which turns into monarchy quicker than you can blink) and realize that while criticizing usage of public resources, a functional state is the only thing between you and the closest pack of niggers killing you for your land. Nobody cares about the NAP. Without the state, the only right you have as far as you land is concerned, is the right to defend it with your life every single fucking day or have it taken from you if you don't.

If you were smart enough to go off and plow your own plot instead of ending up as a peasant or serf, the gift of independent land ownership free of the state comes at the price of never having any illusions of a guarantee that you can keep it.

>>134643078
Lmao you can't even protect your family and you think you're intimidating
Purchase a gun if you really care about your family.

>>134643191
>Liberty of property, yes.
property rights are a fiction that can only be created by force and government is the tool of coercive force that is most commonly used to create those rights.

>>134642864
property rights treads on people's liberty

let's say I want to take a hike off the paths - because of property rights, I can't because a bunch of assholes think they're entitled to the land someone stole 10 generations ago

let's say I want to freely express my opinions or religion - without government intervention, my landlord can kick me out with impunity

let's say I want to participate in free and fair exchange in the form of buying a cereal - without government regulation, my cereal might contain arsenic and will kill me in 20 years

>>134643131
Then you're a fucking retard. How is ensuring safety with police, Healthcare and emergency forces not supporting you and rest of the nation?

>>134642977
>Taxes wouldn't be a problem if the people could choose and see where that tax money goes too.
You wouldn't believe how many percentage of the population will choose to not pay for the military and the police anymore.

>>134643266
this

libertarianism is a worship of property, and is about as much as a religion as any ideology. I'll prefer the ones that work for the public good towards the ones that benefit nobody except the anti-social

>>134642975

I accept your point, which only applies only as long as I stay in this socialist hellhole, which won't be very long.

>tfw rural peasants who could read nor write could make a dirt road, help each other and fight fires while ancapists have to come up with tolls and contracts and yet stuff will be abused because muh NAP, so you can't beat the shit out off smart ass who tries to fuck you over

Abandonment of violence and community was a mistake.

>>134643317
Okay, and only 30% of the tax budget goes to those things.
What about the other 70%? I don't want to pay them.

>>134643258
>he needs guns to protect himself in case he goes out of his gated community
Again, why don't you do anything against the niggers destroying your country? Nothing more than a retard with a big mouth I see. Every day more Mexicans illegally enter the US than any rapefugee does in Europe and you're talking big about "defending your country".

>>134643214

>>134643214
I dont know what would happen. But I highly doubt all lefties will not contribute at all to police/military.
Hillary clinton wanted war with russia after all. cant have war with no military.

>>134643442
And 70% goes to where?

>>134639227

Yes, each mans house is his own casttle

>>134643314
>yes you are not allowed to enter someone else's property without permission
>discrimination on religious grounds isn't profitable. That landlord will be outcompeted by others that don't discriminate
>selling poisoned food isn't profitable - people will stop buying it and all your other product once it's found out they contains arsenic

You live in a country.
Every country has a code of behavior, laws and duties that everyone in the country's territory must follow in order to be considered a citizen of that nation.
When you step in a national territory, you assume the consequences of breaking the codes of that nation.
If you have a complain about the rules of a country, and want something changed or removed, you have two options to that, propose a change to the leaders of the nation (it's up to you how will you make it convincing and what methods you use) or leave the country.

>>134643523
Things I didn't consent to pay. That's the problem.

>>134643506
No one knows, it's all "if if if". But it's a good liberal idea, that could work in a lot of countries

>>134643494
Go ahead, ask other Polacks, or europeans in general about the migration crisis.

>"More syrians please, we love you, diversity is our strength!"
>"I don't need a gun, the migrants are peaceful"

Disgusting beta male who can't even protect his wife.

>>134642977
I disagree. People are stupid. What would need to be done is keeping the Goverment away from things and, in any case, let communities invest their own money in affairs that don't behove the Goverment (like charity as you mentioned).

Also, taxes should be somewhat solidary. As in don't force a person that earns 800€ and barely makes any use of publich healthcare, roads, etc to pay 300€. It's idiotic.