how would anarcho-communism work?

EBURYWUN WILL HOLD HANDS AN DERE WILL BE NO MUNNE OR FIGHTING
This is what they think.

as an oppressor you are not smart enough to understand such things. saged.

>>134629540
it wouldn't

Everybody would be a willing cuck

>>134632114

/thread

It wouldn´t, its an ideology from cucks for cucks. Sage for /leftypol/ thread.

>>134630309
if im not smart enough then educate me on it

Kill the weak. Spread the profit equally between the strong.

>>134629540
Capitalism - a system where 95% of the world's wealth is hoarded by like sixteen people or something and the rest of us have to scrabble about for a few crumbs from our masters table - is basically institutional cuckoldry and obviously requires big government to enforce it.

However anarcho-communism - where people share the worlds resources fairly - wouldn't require any government. People would be freer and much, much more prosperous than capitalism will ever allow us to be. People will naturally want to maintain the system which has given them so much, No need for government.

>>134629593
fucking kek, pretty much this

>>134633012
And then what

>>134633104
What about the human ego?

>>134632194
This

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What's stopping the local gangs taking over the whole city? Who's going to stop them?
The police?
There is no police!
People teaming up against the gangs?
Oh you mean like a NATION? Fuck you, statist!

Who's going to protect those who can't protect themselves? The children, the sick, the elderly etc. Maybe we could assign some people to take care of them?
ASSIGN? Like WORK? Fuck you, government pig!

Anarchy fucking sucks if you're not one tough motherfucking survivalist warmachine of a man.

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For the last fucking time: Communism, per fucking definition, is anarchistic. It's a case of anarchism, where the people voluntarily pool resources together, share, and see to each other's needs. The defining traits of Communism is literally that it's stateless, classless, and moneyless.

Fucking screen cap this or make it your desktop background. if you're thinking of something like Communism, but with a state, it's SOCIALISM.

>>134632487
Back to work Klaus. Remember to put lots and lots of effort in - Your boss wants a new Ferrari.

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>>134633104
>niggers who can barely function in civilization being given out free handouts
>lazy fat feminist cows who refuse to do anything for their own wellbeing getting

"WAAAAH WAAAH WAAAH SOME PEOPLE HAVE MORE THAN ME!"
Face it, Jamal; Most people are poor and miserable because most people are lazy and stupid.

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>>134633104
Why not just go with Distributism? Seems much simpler and would require less violence and authoritarianism.

>>134633472
you've never created anything in your life have you?

>>134632194
3rdPBP

>>134633168
repeat until there are no humans on earth
???
Profit

>>134633104
>me and my buddies have access to a cbc machine and metal, and a couple common chemicals
>start making guns and bullets
>start killing people if they try to "share" our shit with us
>start killing people and taking their shit
>people are afraid of us now cuz they don't want to get killed
>stay just giving us what we ask for
>other guys start joining us so we can threaten more people for their shit
>fuck other guys had the same idea
>now me and my giant posse have to fight for all the territory of the people we've been threatening to kill so we can take their shit, so these guys don't come in and threaten to kill them and take their shit in lieu of us

At this point we've got private property, government, taxes, and state borders. Do I need to say much more before anarcho - toddlers realize that their system has already failed, right around 10,000 BC?

>>134633199
The human ego is exactly why capitalism fails and anarcho communism is necessary.

Capitalism basically tells the majority of the population that they are worthless and deserve to slave away in poverty. It's a message which is at odds with the human ego.

Anarcho communism tells people that they deserve to have pretty much whatever they need. Much more in keeping with what the human ego tells us.

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>>134634036
>Anarcho communism tells people that they deserve to have pretty much whatever they need
And yet human nature says that certain things are "ours", a home and shelter, food, tools and weaponry, and we do not share these things outside of a very small circle of trust people such as family.

>>134634036
Yet capitalist style societies have flourished while communist is only good for hunter gatherer tribes.

Really makes you think

>>134634021
In anarcho communism you can get free access to whatever you need anyway. Why would anyone bother going to all the effort of creating guns and fighting people when they could get whatever they need for free?

>>134629540
It is an oxymoron. Communism is totalitarian. They're polar opposites.

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>>134634496
>Why would anyone bother going to all the effort of creating guns and fighting people when they could get whatever they need for free?
So what's to stop me from taking all your guns and ammo and then killing you all with them? Or I could take all your food, thus starving you?

>>134634171
A lot of what you call "human nature" is actually a result of growing up in a capitalist society and being indoctrinated with its values.

>>134634496
So what is the incentive to produce anything?

Why should the farmer bother to go and produce food when you communists just steal it from him.

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>>134634822
And a lot of what you would call "human ego" is just growing up in a capitalist society and resenting its values.

>>134629540
read some good ol solzhenietchee son..

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>>134629540
Radical shifts enforced on societies like forcing them into self sustaining anarcho-communes would not be possible using democratic means or democratic shifts in balances. People would vote the ancomms out, you see, and go back to doing what they thought was in their best interests.

There was one man who both realized this and understood the means to go about doing it.

His name was Mao, and he truly pioneered the example of ancomm in practice, a political philosophy that he called Maoism.

First off, the old cultural traditions of the people would invite hierarchy, capitalism and the bourgeois back into society, so they had to be erased. For similar reasons, those who carried knowledge of the past had to be liquidated as well.

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>>134629540
Like this:
"Lord Humungus sees you have gas. But you 'ah greedeh'. All we want is yoah gas. You must share. Or you must die. We are too stupid to survive on our own. Gib me dat. Nummy nums for anarcho-commie."

Anarcho-communism is just butthurt little stupidasses, that want the government out of the way so they can gang up and steal. They can't hack it on their own. They can't now, they wouldn't in their own society.

>>134634795
Why would you want to do either of those things? There's no logical reason for you to attack me and take by force things the local community would freely give you anyway.

If you try to attack me, I will defend myself. This is true whether we're living in capitalism, communism, or any other type of society.

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>>134629540
Anarchist unions. As an example to differentiate from communists, in Spain they gave capitalists the option of keeping their property. The compromise was that if they decided to keep their private property then they would not have access to the commons.

I suppose this means that it is like democratic municipalism, but with an economic focus.

A famous anarchist/primitivist joked that they were fools for not seeing this as a state. Kind of similar to the ancap meme.

>>134629540
It doesn't work. As demonstrated by the anarcho communist communities called the Kibbutzim, it will work in a mediocre way for about a generation before the next generations decide to abandon collectivism and begin to adopt currencies because they actually want to succeed and not have to rely on an external government's handouts just to keep existing. People are individuals, not hive minds like ants or bees.

UuUuh Don't you know that under capitalism 100% of the worlds wealth is owned by ONE midget. And no people wouldn't just make new governments. That would be illegal under anarchism!

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>>134635252
Because you want me to share my stuff, and I don't want to share my stuff, since I'll need that stuff when your system collapses.

And your system IS going to collapse because there is no reason to work, you get the same reward no matter how much work you do so you might as well not work at all.

>>134635028
Mao was not an anarcho-communist, memestar. Spain is an example of how it worked, and the anarchists used a variety of tactics (not completely different to how capitalists/liberals rebelled against the monarchy). Riots, unions, sabotage, assassinations, massive demonstrations and literature, until they became the largest political opposition group in the nation.

It is essentially the collective ideology that replaces the state. Same as ancaps in practise I guess, just with different ends and political enemies.

>>134633104
>However anarcho-communism - where people share the worlds resources fairly - wouldn't require any government.
And how exactly would that all work with no government-like structure to oversee the process and ensure its fairness? Format you honestly believe that greed and self-interest will just disappear and the everything thing would just magically be redistributed, with people giving up their shit?

>>134635092
Hmm, but can you really stand on your own when there's a government?

>>134632194
Let's all just pretend tat this is the first post.

>>134635668
See >>134635310
The kibbutzim was the closest example of ancom at work as people in Israel formed a collective communist community and ingrained the philosophy into their children so they would be brought up to live in a complete commie environment. It didn't work, they decollectivized and proved individualism is natural.

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Honestly it almost certainly wouldn't.

Small-scale communes, like the old Kibbutzes in Israel, are about the closest you'll get.

The only "successful" experiments (in Spain and Ukraine) with anarchism were only successful because they were overrun militarily before they had a chance to collapse by their own incompetence.

Ancoms make good cannon-fodder though.

>>134635528
If you're opposed to it you should come up with actual arguments. Anarchists have no interest in going through your collection of trap photos and redistributing them so that everyone has an equal share.

And nowhere do they suggest that everyone gets the exact same reward. In fact, that should be a charge against capitalism more than anything else. Even in Soviet society you would get extra money for hard work and potentially become a national hero. In capitalism you get increased taxes and contractual displacement until you are more poor than ever because MUH ANNUAL PROFIT GROWTH.

>>134634906
"Share your corn with us, and we'll share all the goods and services we produce with you" said the local community.

"Fuck off, I'm going to keep this field of corn to myself. I'll eat nothing but corn everyday. I'll build a house out of corn. I'll invent corn-based games to entertain myself. If I get sick I'll use corn-based remedies. This is my corn and I won't share it!" Said the farmer

"Ok cool bye" said the local community

>>134635861
Not sure where you're trying to go with this. First of all, industrialism is a powerful historical force which has taken over most of the world. And secondly, anarcho-communists are pro-industrialism, so the example is irrelevant.

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>>134635948
>And nowhere do they suggest that everyone gets the exact same reward
That's literally what he's suggesting though, that everyone have access to ALL the resources, but if you want to propose an alternate system than go ahead. I recommend Distributism.

>>134636018
How does this world differ from regular anarchy or hardline libertarianism? What makes it communism, if people can opt out whenever they want? It's just voluntarism, there's nothing communist about it.

>>134635892
Successful because destroyed by 'our militaries'. Good Stalin larp.

>>134636018
Or the farmer, builder and doctor band together and demand recompense for their services from the poet, the dreamer and the commune massage girl.

Retard.

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>>134636018
The farmer has no incentive to put in real work. As long as he gives the appearance of working hard and occasionally puts in a few boxes of corn into the local supply then he gets ALL the resources. He has no incentive to innovate, work harder, or make his farming more efficient.

>>134636074
The point is that if you try to make people work collectively, their children will go against that naturally and change society for individual rights and segregation from the group.

>>134635693
That's a complex deep philosophical question full of dialectics and nuances and few absolustes, and all sorts of crap to pontificate and debate over.

To find what degree to which one could, I'd more-so just ask simply, does one need to steal another person's shit, in order to make it along?

Dependency seems to me, the opposite of self-reliance and peaceful cohabitation. Communism in any sort seems to have that as a starting feature. So... naturally how well are they going to stand? Seems all the numerous cases indicate indeed, not very well at all.

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>>134633199
Spooky

>>134636106
Who says this? Some rando on the internet?

And why would I propose a different system? I never said I was for or against. Your post literally makes no sense...

But in terms of distributism, isn't this just banksters larping as communists for the weekend. I mean, at one point it was considered mandatory to have 30 acres to live off of, but the distributists magically increased the land rations to 3 acres. Seems a bit of a head scratcher.

>>134636258
Have you ever worked on a farm? Having to eat and not having to work 10 hours a day in the rain, wind, and snow is a pretty good incentive for doing things right.

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>>134636476
>Who says this? Some rando on the internet?
This guy: >>134635252

>isn't this just banksters larping as communists for the weekend
How so?

>mean, at one point it was considered mandatory to have 30 acres to live off of, but the distributists magically increased the land rations to 3 acres
I you're being a bit obtuse and literal with the "land" part of it, the point isn't to literally give everyone 3 acres and a cow, it's to give them enough productive property to make a living for themselves.

>>134636176
Get down to brass tack here...
they were going to steal the hell outta that corn anyway. Join the group and get leeched, or get plainly robbed.

Hah. What universe is a bunch of people who don't believe in property rights, going to respect that farmer's property rights? He's being a greedy capitalists, and we know what to do with greedy capitalists.
Collectivize'd. This here's some good corn.

>>134636545
Tell that to the farmers of all socialist countries who failed to produce the required resources to feed the population. And don't tell me there isn't enough food to feed everyone by natural agriculture when in first world countries there's enough food to go around to make every fifth person fat and eating more than one person's share of food.

>>134636271
And yet it works in Amish communities. The world isn't a deterministic state of certain outcomes.

The majority of history is collective sharing of resources. You're using a minor period of a few hundred years to suggest that the former state is unnatural.

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>>134636545
>Having to eat and not having to work 10 hours a day in the rain, wind, and snow is a pretty good incentive for doing things right.
But I wouldn't have to do things right. I could put in the minimum amount of effort required and still get access to all the resources so why put in any more than I have to? Heck, just work 1 or 2 hours a day, put in a few boxes of corn, and then take 10 times as much as I'm putting in.

>>134636176
In a libertarian society some random asshole is going to decide that he owns the farmers land. He'll charge the farmer rent for the land by stealing a portion of his corn. If the farmer tries to stop the asshole from stealing some of his corn, the farmer will pay a few dudes to come and steal all his corn.

>>134636793
Yet the Amish aren't even anarchist, and they still use money. They are just bound by a religion which makes them want to work together more often.

>>134636793
>And yet it works in Amish communities
Amish aren't communist.

>>134636917
No random assholes in AnCom-country, though.
You're too stupid for this.

>>134636353
Interestingly enough though, communism tended to maintain traditionalist methods of labour which required more input, while the capitalist method is to lessen labour. An extreme example would be the Moscow Metro compared with the New York subway. Which one required more labour?

And if communists actually required more labour while the capitalists were trying to diminish it, who was really lazy? And wouldn't that make the capitalists the true thieves, since they wanted to not only steal the excess labour from the workers but also, in time, the very work that made people workers?

Let's not pretend that capitalism is without thievery and 'stealing others' shit'.

Small government, keep the military for defense, keep law and enforcement departments for defending your rights as a consumer, privatize almost everything else. Not sure if this counts as ancap.

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>>134637177
>And if communists actually required more labour while the capitalists were trying to diminish it, who was really lazy?
You know what they say, work smarter, not harder. Inventing the wheel may make work easier, but it also allows me to get more work done.

people would be expected to share of their own free will

and then they wouldnt because people are greedy

there, perfect working communism as we know it.

>>134637177
You're a dipshit leaf. Capitalists want to reduce labor because they know people don't want to work if they don't have to. Capitalists automate, while communists and socialists try to keep people lingering on as workers past their prime just so they can say workers have a place in society.

It wouldn't work and let me explain why.

Let's say I have all I need in life due to the wonderful system working as intended.
But today I feel like getting Product X that I read about online. The only way to get Product X is to import it from a foreign country.
Since I can't travel there every time I see a product like that there needs to be a system in place where such a product will be delivered to me for a compensation.
But who will enforce it and how? How do you ensure it will arrive safely? What if I want it sooner rather than later? What if I want to get 10 of those products and my friends chip in so we can order them and I'm placing an order for it personally.

You see ... that's why capitalism exists. It exists because it accounts for all scenarios and adjusts itself accordingly.
Being "fair" can only get you so much, but there will always be that one person that wants things faster or better or more efficient and he's willing to pay more or demand more.
That's why capitalism naturally evolved as the dominant system in use. It accounts for competitiveness, for availability, for luxury, for convenience, for spending power and so on...

Communism on the other hand attempts to be "fair" but eventually societal needs again form a capitalist super-structure on top of it and/or it requires enforcing of "fairness" to the point of violence.

It's just not viable.

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so hows consumer capitalism travelling these days...

a meaningless episode of work for the rich and "lets go shopping" as reward

but the fvey empire isn't so sound is it?

the problem with plutocracy is that no matter how well it trash talks any alternative to its triumphant rule

there will always be a flame of freedom burning in mans heart, something transcendent, beyond mere materialism and self induced slavery

>>134637111
Tribes in Africa do though. Read a post once about it, written by some charity group worker. Went something like this:
>Son of some tribe member that has 4 wives, 8 kids each wife, has authority, wants to make money and succeed for himself, too
>decides to sell bread
>saves and hides enough money over a quite long period of time, to eventually buy enough flour and materials
>bakes the bread, about 30 loaves
>sells on roadway passing by village
>cheifdad sees it.
>we need bread son-comrade
>takes about 20 loaves to feed his wives and children
>son financially ruined
>wasted all his fucking time
>never tries again
>yay communalism
>africa stays africa
>communal sharing caring paradise
>until next famine
>chief nutsalot prob still has shitty genes survive because reproduces like a rat

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>>134637642
What did you have in mind?

>>134634496
If anyone has access to whatever they need, how would you react if something people need is not readily available, like food for example.
Imagine for example that I had a chicken that lays an egg every day for me to eat in a situation where there is not enough food for everyone. Does that mean anyone could come and take my chicken's egg for them to eat, even if that person never contributed to tend for the chicken in any way, shape or form?
I don't think I would be terribly happy about having someone take what I worked for to survive for themselves.
What would result is either:
1- I would fight anyone that tries to take my egg
or 2- I would hire someone to do it for me, providing he gets half of the egg for himself.
Isn't that fascin- oh wait, it's called capitalism and private property...
Communists are retarded

>>134636018
>Share your corn with us, and we'll share all the goods and services we produce with you

So it is a barter economy that you advocate for?
Doesn't seem like goods and services the local community is producing is available for free if the farmer has to trade his corn to access it.

Why should he bother working if he can access everything for free as you implied before?

>>134637783
Well said, nip.

>>134636545
So you understand that the farmer must put in hard work to produce the food?

Why would he put himself through that when apparently everything is available for free anyway?

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>>134637804
It's sort of a barter economy, but it's an uneven one. It's "give us what you have, and we'll give you access to EVERYTHING".

As you can imagine, this creates problems when say, the local poet only has his poetry to offer, and there's a fucking famine going on and the people need more farmers.

>>134636731
He didn't say what you think he's saying.

They are basically just distributing what they can get away with. So over the long week of larping as communists they can give away thirty acres, but if crisis limits their larping to just the weekend that may have to be rethought and become just 3.

Distributism seems to me just a form of industrialist charity, giving away the excess capital so that it may spread further and democratise.

Also interesting because it is akin to one of the most extreme forms of marxism possible, which saw all economics as the shedding of excess, and the ideal form of capital in distribution as a mass gift economy.

All economic determinism seems to be cart before horse to me. Distributism, sure, okay. But before that give me a society of people striving for the best politics, philosophy, and art. Make it beautiful and lively, have a connection with nature, a traditionalist culture, and work defined by skillful creation. Find legitimate enemies to struggle against based on the word of the gods. After that, any question of capitalist or socialist economics seems banal and unimportant, and would hardly affect the society at all. Most would take either without a concern so long as the city dwarfed the image of the economic theory.

Just like communism

It wouldn't

>>134636889
God wills it. Have you not read the Parable of the Workers in the Field?

>>134637780
something beyond being born to simply be another mans dog.

>>134637111
You've lost the train of the argument...

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>>134637983
>Distributism seems to me just a form of industrialist charity, giving away the excess capital so that it may spread further and democratise.
Yup, that's the idea, minus the democratization.

>>134637783
Thank for the refresher.

>>134636018
>Food runs out

"We're starving! We've already had 5 comrades die of hunger today" said the local community.

"I'll give you some of my corn provided you give me something valuable for the work I've invested in cultivating the corn" said the farmer

The local community would either
1 - Become capitalist and buy the farmer's corn
2 - Stay communist and starve
3 - Chimpout and likely get killed by the farmer defending his private property.

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>>134638151
Amish are charitable capitalists, they have private property and they are allowed at any time to tell everyone else to fuck off, they willingly in a capitalist setting choose to be charitable to each other.

>>134638133
How about being a self-sufficient man with Distributism?

>>134638073
That's a parable about how you can accept Jesus at any time and you'll still get Heaven as a reward, it's not a fucking economic theory.

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>>134633622
>created
i am fucking "creating" UI for shit apps you people are using

my father is a PhD chemist, he is "creating" new formulas for shit thing you will use to wash your hair

much of jobs in this fucking world are stupid shit nobody needs and it is of no importance
it takes no pride to do it. i am just getting paid for it.

you must be fucking idiot to think you are creating anything.

>>134636787
Was that due to people not wanting to work? No, it was because of forced redistribution at the hands of a tyrant.

I think you underestimate the power that ideology has in getting people to work hard. Or do you not realise that work ethic in Soviet Russia was actually greater than in America?

And not sure why you're talking about current food waste, that is a capitalist and globalist problem.

>>134638313
perfectly fine pixel art smeared with garbage for no reason
why do people do this?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tvQ8-Bgb14

>>134637783
>Imagine a situation where there isn't enough food

In a situation where there isn't enough food, pretty much any form of society will degenerate into desperate barbarity.

>>134637297
Yes, until your workers don't have any money to buy things so that you then must redistribute the capital redistribution among the machines so that they make more money for themselves and then you end up unironically espousing exactly what Karl Marx says, just as a farce instead of tragedy.

That is, until it becomes an even bigger tragedy.

>>134638467
Yours will degenerate into it far faster due to the fact noone gets any reward for working.

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>>134638431
What do you mean? Where's the garbage in the pixel art?

>>134638467
Hmm. Especially the ones that are quickly doomed to it to begin with.

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>>134638536
>until your workers don't have any money to buy things so that you then must redistribute the capital redistribution among the machines so that they make more money for themselves
That's why we gotta have Distributism, so that the people own the machines.

>>134638383
And forced redistribution discourages the farmer from farming effectively. Greater work 'ethic' just means there's more of a push to try and get people to work harder and not smarter, which then doesn't happen because people don't want to keep working hard. Cite me a source for this "greater work ethic" of the USSR.

Anarcho-communism is the only real communism desu.
Not that it would work, but even Marx saw when there's state, there are classes.
That's pretty much point of state: to have hierarchical society.

>>134637381
Yes, make up your history as you go along, snake. Capitalists automate because it makes them more money in the short-term. No other reason. Don't try to play the 'capitalists are really humanitarians' card when we both know it's about MUH LIBERTY.

It's a very small percentage of people who don't want to work, especially with the religious connection to work ethic. But when the skill and enjoyment of work is reduced, as is the case with industrialisation, people want to work less. And in turn this forces more ideological reenforcement.

But keep trying to suggest that the monster created by capitalism is really socialist, even as Walmart keeps people working as greeters into their eighties.

And certainly capitalists wouldn't betray their own people by shipping off the jobs and saving money. That would go against their personal interest! They really wanted to liberate the people at home and 'give them new opportunities.'

Fucking corporate snake.

>>134638755
wtf are you talking about, what farmers???
machines are doing the work, it isn't 19 century ffs.

>>134638606
>3x3 pixel size
>puts shitty animated 1x1 pixel near it
it looks like fucking shit m8
If it was something like 4x4, you could use 2x2 for a semi-perfect division without having it looks like someone got drunk and took a piss on it.

>>134637608
You realise that people buy things on the internet all the time with no guarantees and there are rarely problems, right?

>>134638982
>with no guarantees
refunds are a thing that is offered, a guarantee if you will, so that if shit happens you can get your money back

>>134638859
Not that commies can afford machines.

>>134637954
It isn't. You would be given a wage based on your work and what the unions decided for each industry.

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>>134639104
Okay, you're clearly talking about a different system than what >>134636018 was describing so let's just get that out of the way first.

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>>134639059
kek

>>134634496
humans have existed for up to 200,000 years and civilization has existed for about 6,000 years. Yet there has never been a time when people have stopped being greedy self absorbed assholes. Someone would be by to kill you and take your shit eventually just so they can have extra shit.

>>134629593
fpbp

>>134638467
A capitalist society would last much longer should such a scenario happen.
People that work for their food, which are the people that benefit from capitalism in the first place, would survive, and lazy people that don't do anything beneficial to society will be the ones that won't be able to get the food that's not plentiful enough, and they will not survive.
Such is the harsh reality of the world we live in, kid. Your fairytales have no chance of working in the real world

>>134630309
>tfw to smart to end capitalist hegemony

>>134638463
Never trust a man in a bow-tie. Especially if he's larping as a marxist.

'Industrialists aren't stealing from the workers, but the workers are stealing from mEeE!'

What is the incentive to do what is right if a state isn't there to enforce the laws?

>>134638463
Ancaps are literally the feminists of economics.

>>134639449
>Leaf blowing it out of his ass again
Day of the rake when?

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>>134638313
to be honest i hadnt read about distributism until i read your post...
upon first reading it seems an acceptable alternative
in any event i see the current situation as one where all peoples, no matter ideology or faith must work towards breaking the hegemony of the transnationalist plutocratic elites that manipulate western civilization and seek to freeze humanity in a banal spectacle of purposeless consumption

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>>134638678
We already have distributism, it's called 'Trickle-down economics.'

>>134639544
>not undestanding that you need to have state in order to have capitalist system
the leaf is pretty much right, toothpaste

Reeeeee

>>134638755
But capitalism is already forced redistribution, just to a smaller collective.

All hail kek

>>134629593
same with ancaps dumb fuck

>>134639761
Commie

>>134638755
Stakhanovism.

>>134634558
>sharing is totalitarian

fuck off

>>134639829
Russia

>>134639050
Not what I meant. I mean people who send cash for records, tools, etc. to some random and get it sent to them with no problems.

>>134639829
>>134639887
kek

>>134638858
Capitalists automate because they encourage innovation and aren't forced to keep workers on the line due to 'morals' when they have machines to do the work. Yes, it earns them more money, but I don't know what you mean by saying it's limited to a 'short-term'.

Yet there would be more skilled opportunities for workers to fulfill their need to be challenged if the education for those skilled jobs weren't granted easily through government loans, especially without discouraging unproductive degrees.

Walmart would likely exchange those 80 year old greeters into social robots if they didn't want to give the elderly jobs to compensate for the fact they were scammed both by pajeets in losing their wealth, and by the ponzi scheme that is social security.

The only reason jobs are shipped off is because of the high minimum wage (government intervention) combined with free trade (a sensible policy without government intervention).

You fail to realize libertarianism is a friend to the common man and their small businesses, not to large corporations.

>>134639182
No, I'm not. You seem to have this idea that anarchism is roaming gangs who want ultra-violence against subcapitalist personal property. Read up on how the Spanish anarchists did it.

>>134640014
Because it's true. Because it always turns out that way.
Because Spain was just a case of being overtaken very early on before it happened.
Because your ideas suck.

>>134639761
It's not forced because you don't have to pay the big guy for products and services. You can even compete with the big guy to get better products and services on the market.

>>134639544
Argues that people should be thrown out of helicopters.
Offended easily by jokes.
Insists that there is no connection between beta economists and feminist thinking.

Ancaps are basically the captcha of political ideology.

>>134639254
As a matter of fact, humans have spent tens of thousands of years cooperating and living in non-hierarchical societies.

It's only relatively recently that we've decided that being King of the hill is more important than living as a decent human being.

For much of human history, the only options available were:
1) work together, or
2) die

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EDUCATE YOURSELVES

https://libcom.org/thought/anarchist-communism-an-introduction

UNDO PIGGY'S BRAINWASHING

>>134639922
because sites give you a somewhat secondary guarantee that they will, by giving you the chance to get back at them if they fuck up
If they're selling directly from their site, don't buy from them.

>>134639829
Actually, not at all, but I understand how their system works.

I'm a traditionalist/primitivist.

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>>134640200

>>134639974
Can't afford the basics of human life.
High minimum wage.

You're a retard.

Also, it's called liberalism. And it's a friend to no one. Renaming it with multiple suffixes is just doing the inverse of the marxists you like to blame everything on.

>>134640214
>I'm a traditionalist/primitives
Okay Flinstone, go back to your cave and leave pol alone. You shouldn't even be using a computer to begin with.

>>134640133
Because it always turns out that way.
Because it never happened.
I don't even know your ideas, but since it's the internet I can be a degenerate and resocialise your ideas to the material needs of the current debate.

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>>134635252

I don't even know you like that but I already want to murder you and take all your shit.

Imagine how it would be if there were no laws or agencies to protect you from me and those like me. The only thing keeping people like you alive is the hassle of dealing with and avoiding authorities. Pray that your protection never falls

>>134640379
Without a minimum wage, prices would normalize by deflating, making goods and services affordable.

Yeah as I thought, you make no sense. Anarchism doesn't work because we are only human. Hopefully you will understand this some day as you grow up.

>>134640143
Okay, let's play monopoly. I get to play as the banker and also get all the money in the bank and all the property. I'll give you 100 bucks, no 500, to be really generous.

How do you think you'll do?

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>>134629540
it's an oxymoron. You can't enforce communism without a state and no one with resources would willingly participate.

>>134640576
>relating economics to a board game with mutated rules

>>134640143
Seriously though. I'm open to defenses of capitalism, just base the arguments on reality.

And I'm all for criticisms of anarchism. I'm not an anarchist, just want to hear arguments based in logic rather than degeneracy.

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>>134640377
Antisemitism is the socialism of fools.

>>134640205
Nope, again, sending randos cash in an envelope. No guarantees.

>>134640679
Technology will deprecate the need for anarchy because the inadequacies of human beings in governing will be replaced by computers and robots.

>>134640628
Stop projecting your own selfishness and narcissism onto others.

>>134640431
K, but make sure you don't breathe the air, the EPA regulates and taxes that shit.

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>>134640149
People only participate in non hierarchical societies if they can't get ahead without it. Tribesmen cooperated because it was necessary, it doesn't apply in a post industrial world.

>>134629593
Fucking kek

>>134640552
Except for the people earning that 0 minimum wage...

>>134640850
We've been living under unrestrained capitalism since the 1980s and the rich keep getting richer whilst everyone else gets poorer. In the 50s when we had socialism everyone got richer.

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>>134640901
A minimum wage increases 0 income earners, without a minimum wage there would at least be a job that paid like shit for them.

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>>134640738

>>134640659
>not understanding an elementary analogy
I take it you have never read a logic book, since that would infringe on MUH LIBERTAYS.

>>134640901
Yet even a fascist Singapore recognizes the need for a lack of a wage floor.

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>>134640962
You say this being well fed, housed, and on a computer connected to the internet despite not even being able to comprehend basic economics.

>>134640982
That scenario is more like Cuckerberg's proposal for UBI to spend the money they allow you on their goods and services.

>>134640978
Daddy, what's basic communication? I don't know, son. We're liberalistarianists.

>>134636750

And the last you'll ever have.

Why would anyone decide to be a farmer instead of a poet or an actor? Who would force me to work if there is a much less physical demanding alternative?
Would the arts just die? Would everyone be required to take turns in the field or the factories.
What would happen to specialization? What would happen if everyone wanted to be a scientist and a scholar?

Capitalist society works because specialization has been proven to be the best system to evolve in every single field.
Anarchism and communism can only work in small and backward communities.

>>134629540
The state would be as a corporation co-op, and everyone would work for the state.

>>134641093
You reading a book on logic is like UBI? Yeah, I know. I literally just said that.

At least your anarcha-liberal sisters have to pretend to sound smart cause of MUH EKANAMIKS

>>134641087
If you're too ignorant to see the social unrest that economic inequality causes you are beyond saving. Capitalism will collapse if this continues much longer, the strings of society are beginning to fray as can clearly be seen. (Though this is if our capitalist overlords have not made superhuman AI to control us by then).

>>134641386
I was referring to your OP on the matter here: >>134640576 (imbecile).

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>>134641386
It's funny how libertarians think they are smart for building their worldview upon deliberately simplified highschool economics.

>>134641318
You're forcing capitalist terms of success onto anarchism. Of course it's going to fail.

And you're also ignoring that capitalism undermines specialisation.

What if I said, 'Who would ever be the teacher-lawyer-bankster-industrialist-consultants if everyone wants a specialised job?' If you specialise you will no longer be able to work in the transient economy.

All these arguments for capitalism are literally 200 years old and have no understanding how the current system actually functions.

>>134641554
No, we're smart for being skeptical about 'new age' economics which only serve to destroy a country.

>>134641554
Marxists have many faults, but understanding capitalist economics isn't one of them.

Libertarians literally just take a few marxist memes and replace 'capital' with 'taxman'.

>>134641668
>Who would ever be the teacher-lawyer-bankster-industrialist-consultants if everyone wants a specialised job?
The people who in the "free market" do not manage to achieve better and are forced to be helpful to society or be poor.

ancoms are fucking morons, they believe that reforming the system of government without reforming human beings will lead to utopia

LOL

>>134641707
>libertarians think they have a monopoly on being skeptical of mainstream economics

kek

and monetarism is mainstream economics, which is from the libertarian chicago school

>>134641707
New age, like 'irrational exuberance'?

>>134641821
If they were smart they'd be transhumanist, if they'd be smarter they'd be technologists without surrendering their mind to a boring existence.

>>134641821
humans evolved in co-operating groups so no

>>134641821
Lol, this is literally the ancap argument, just reforming all aspects of government to be corporate offices. Nowhere do anarchists say anything similar.

>>134642002
If libertarians were smart and read books other than Mises and Rand they'd be NRx

>>134641668
>capitalism undermines specialisation.
Also this is one of the most ignorant statements I've read for a while now. Modern capitalism is all about specialization, you start from high school to university to master degrees and the you specialize even further in the workforce.

>>134641777
>Marxists have many faults, but understanding capitalist economics isn't one of them.
they clearly don't understand capitalist economics, seeing as they still believe labor theory of value and exploitation theory are legitimate and the economic calculation problem can be solved with computers

>>134641923
I don't know how 'mainstream' free market capitalism is when pretty much no nation practices it today.

>>134641970
I thought you were going to go back to your cave, leaf.

>>134642099
But technology will free humans from the need to govern, while still maintaining a governed environment. I just don't want to modify my body.

>>134642156
K, sounds ignorant to you because you don't understand how the economy works now.

People literally have to be 'flexible' in every area of the hiring process, which is code for 'do whatever the fuck we want and get paid less than anyone before you.' 'Also, be happy when we fire you, or move you to another line of work.' You have to have a little bit of experience, but not too much - and that's not because specialisation is seen as a good thing.

Just look at where most people work, they're always doing different shit, and in different places. In the few specialisation jobs available it is literally the dumbest shit possible you have to know. Otherwise you are just reading from a computer.

The high-skilled jobs you are talking about do something very similar. You are constantly being retrained and moved around, and have to be competitive with the robots and immigrants. Not to mention have a back up plan for when the boss sits you down and 'gives you a new opportunity.'

Specialisation implies being the best within a specific field and even task. This would be something like academic research and fine-cabinetry.

It is perhaps even worse than what I say, as much of the economy is now crypto-specialisation, or compartmentalisation. You only do a single part of an unskilled specialised task.

>>134642249
Those are legitimate theories. As is the tendency of the rate of profits to fall (which is literally a prophecy of what is currently happening in the economy).

>>134642285
When you suck on a muffler I'll go to my cave.

>>134642881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVgg5ou4wPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxg3G-G1YLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzotWrHheU

>>134642249
Also, you clearly never heard of the cybernetics machines invented by the Soviets which solved the 'economic calculation problem'.

Also, lol at the crypto-marxists who use a bastardised form of labor theory of value. Everything comes down to the tax theory of value.

>>134642962
I'm better off waiting for you to get a curable disease and dying off because you were too primitive to save yourself. At least that'd be the case if you actually followed your ideology and stayed away from modern society.

>>134629540

The prehistoric world was anarcho communism but people moved away from it because they couldn't stop larger raiding tribes that weren't communal anarchies

>>134642754
What are you even talking about, that only applies for unspecialized jobs. If you are the best in your field (almost any field) you bet your ass companies would literally fight over having you in. There are people SPECIALIZED in finding talents in every industry (headhunters) that regularly try to poach people from other companies. If you are the best database manager, the best back-end developer, the best journalist, the best manager, the best data analyst, the best plumber, lawyer the best anything really (that requires specialization) people will flock to you. The problem arise when you have no skill, no specialization and you are forced by the market to flip burger.

>>134643166
Youtube videos to 'debunk' the largest work on capitalist economics ever produced? You've got to be kidding.

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>>134629540
Anarchy and Communism: the only two persistent political ideologies which has never once resulted in the successful Nation

why dont you guise stop being special snowflakes and just acknowledge Natsoc re-built Germany is 4 years and nearly destroyed the International Banker's stranglehold over all of Europe? if the only reason youre not Natsoc is

>muh holocaust!

you're wrong.

>>134643342
Because everyone can be CEO of a company.

Soviet collapse is the literal argument of capitalists. Everyone can be a seller!

>>134643329
If you read the thread you know that's not true because collectivism is unnatural, which is a staple in ancom philosophy.

>>134643501
>Because everyone can be CEO of a company.
You are literally retarded at this point

>>134643197
Have fun getting a hospital disease and not knowing that all medicine comes from plants so you have to pay some corporation thousands of dollars for a machine to play hot potato around the globe with what I could produce out of a bit of wood and a stone.

>>134643371
you're sounding an awful lot like an ideologue, marxism has been debunked for over fifty years now by austrian economists like mises and hayek

>>134643680
And the knowledge of the natural cures would disappear if you didn't mark it down on paper or digital technology which you can thank modern societies for.

>>134643614
Your nation has 10% of people living in poverty, you claim that anyone can get a specialised job, and yet I'm retarded.

Okay.

>>134643517
Collectivism is unnatural but so is pure selfishness

>>134644095
Which is why free market societies are not selfish, as an entrepreneur would have to work with the community to get seed funding and also grow their wealth.

>>134643753
The Austrians are literally the common core of economic theory. They didn't debunk shit. But give me their best quote 'debunking' marxism.

Also, not wanting to listen to fallacies does not make one an ideologue, it shows wisdom.

>>134643849
Because writing things down makes babies. And Monsanto created neanderthals from test-tubes.

Can anyone be dumber than a lolbertarian?

>>134644094
Everyone who works for it. That is especially valid in my country actually because education is fucking free (if you are poor). Point is you can't blame the system (that's not perfect ofc) for the poor choices of people. If you decide to not go to university or to graduate in greek literature then you are to blame for choosing a) no specialization b) a specialization that has no market value.

Even if you do not have advanced education you could easily specialize on the job. You wouldn't believe how much wielders are requested and paid but people decide not to do that. It's not like there is lack of information, we live in the internet age for fuck sake. (also those numbers are heavily screwed by immigrants)

>>134644399
What? Are you rejecting natural birth in place of celebacy so that you die off after one generation? If so then I guess you don't need to worry about passing on information down to descendants.

>>134644298
okay, go back to leftypol to circlejerk about irrelevant """theory""" that no serious economist has ever taken seriously and will never be applicable to the real world without disasterous consequences

>>134639793
>no munne
You aren't even beginning to grasp the basics of capitalism. Makes sense, considering your flag
>no fighting
There will be, but it's protected by private entities and the right to bear arms, not to mention societal punishment for violating Non-aggression-principles.

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>>134629540
not entirely sure what the point of anarcho-communism as a lable is.

Anarcho-capitalism is another pointless anarcho label

when one is an anarchist or a facist, the rules of the game don't really matter
if one has a leader or no leader, one essentialy gives up power, and therfor the system can't enforce an economic model, even capitalism needs money, a way to print it, and economy, if not its essentialy a trade-based society, or a charity based one.

>>134644399
Yes. A moron that still considers Marx anything more than a laughable joke.

>>134644761
So you can't back up your claim, just have to resort to personal attacks and bullshitting. Good to know.

>>134639877
Okay. So communism requires everybody to share, right? But what if someone doesn't want to share.

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>>134629540
The Anarchists are a part of the means to an end and when the end is reached the anrachists will have their lives ended once their purpose is served.

Anarcho communism is just communism before the revolution is won,

>>134644785
>cant differentiate between fiat currency and actual money
Read some Menger.

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>>134634822
fuck off troll

>>134644841
If he's so laughable then you should easily help your buddies point out how he is wrong. They seem to be having a tough time of it.

I can tell you how his philosophy is wrong, where his politics are a disaster, and how he messed up. But his economic theories of capital are not wrong, they are the closest anyone has come to a truth regarding capitalist economy.

>>134629540
literally small communes of people that share everything with no conception of private ownership of anything

>>134644939
i gave it to you, you dumb fuck. you refused to acknowledge it. here's another https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Socialism%20An%20Economic%20and%20Sociological%20Analysis_3.pdf

>>134629540
retarded cunt
kys
> how would something I am unable to define work
retarded cunt
kys
natcap only
you evil shit

>>134645108
So I guess saying that Capitalism will collapse and naturally evolve into Communism wasn't a serious note of his, and he said it to troll everyone.

>>134644976
They take it. Then when the system collapses, and the whole no-government, willful sharing care bear facade falls off, they show themselves to be the low-tier incompetent prole thugs they are, and force you at the end of a bayonet to work the mines. Same as communism always does and has time, and time, and time again.
If it doesn't go nowhere, and people eventually abandon it willfully, as a handful of cases, it goes authoritarian. Because voluntary non-violent communism is a fantasy for childish minds.

Everyone will be equally hungry and nobody knows when there will be food

>>134644977
South African communist. Why am I not surprised.

I'd go with the Warriors model. Everyone has to be in a street gang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV4cgs-bPic

>>134645688
I am not a communist though. You would have to literally be retarded to be an Communist in Africa after seeing what communism has done to Africa which is why so many blacks are communists.

I was just stating the obvious, the Anarchists are the degenerate dregs of society used to further the communist agenda.

They get their shit pushed in after the revolution

>>134645688
I think he's talking about how communists use anarchists for their revolution, but kill them off when they think they can instill an ancom society.

>>134644988

sure, but the diffrence isn't a meaningfull one when the government and the people are indistinguishable from eachother such as in anarchist societies. Never seen an anarcho capitalist argue for gemstones to be used , they always talk as if the printing of money is a no-brainer , even if the question of who to do it isn't adressed

>>134634496
I wish I could believe in magic too.

>>134645224
Uh, no. You responded to my request for a quote with autistic screeching.
Now you give me some book which doesn't even have a chapter on the labor theory of value, it just mentions it on 4 or 5 pages.

>>134633104
Why does it matter if they have whatever of the world's % of money if you can live comfortably. Earn it yourself if they are so useless to have earned it and maintained that wealth.

>>134646190
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVgg5ou4wPo

Just find a race of perfectly virtuous and cooperative individuals and voila, an-com works.

I swear. Communists and socialists, as well as leftists in general are the most stubborn idiotic group out there. I've been in fascist threads and have come out in mutual understandings, but communist general is full of bots that regurgitate filth. And ancoms I'm seeing just don't listen to reason, which is probably worse than the communist bots because they aren't just trolling. They're almost as bad as Obama leaf. Almost.

>>134646508
If only we did not genocide the elves in the eighteen hundreds.

Why do commies talk about "the failures of capitalism" as if we're not currently living in the most socialized society the West has ever seen? Apart from their hunter-gatherer golden age when people literally knew everyone in their tribe by face, that is?

The solution to the failures of socialism is more socialism?

>>134646379
Marx is talking about value, and real wealth, while this guys is talking about money.

He doesn't understand the basic difference, so he can't debunk anything in regards to economics.

>>134646379
Also, labor theory of value isn't the most important aspect of Marxism, it is just a basic problem for understanding real and formal value.

The fundamental aspect of Marxism is what is called value-in-process.