Jordan B. Peterson

Jordan go to bed

>>134624927
Can you keep the thread alive for at least till the lecture is over?

>>134624927
Another hack masquerading as a Christian when he really doesn't have the first idea. I'm no saint but I know more about Christianity than this guy

>>134625386

Clean your room.

He's great, and it's really inspiring how broadly he appeals to the right in general. He's showing an entirely new generation how deep and dense religion can be. A generation who thought the only way to be a Christian was to be a creationist fundamentalist.

>>134624927
the fairy tales of religion are dead anon, time for humanity to grow up.

I want Americans to hurry up and become 100% non white so we can totally ignore them and their religious rambling.

Fuck off brown person. Religion is in the white man's past.

from someone who was somewhat secular he definitely got me to reconsider the value and importance of christian morals.

>>134625386
I don't know man, watch the whole video and let me know if you still think that.

>>134625386
It's not so much what he knows about Christianity, but that he's getting people interested.

I was never really religious, my parents kind of were but not really, they didn't take me to church often as a child, a handful of times that I recall.

Once I was maybe ~13 I was done with it, didn't give a shit about religion in the least. I wasn't against religion per se, I didn't ever attack religious believers or try to change their minds, I just had zero interest.

Then about a year ago I was listening to some of Jordan Peterson's stuff, and it really opened my eyes to the benefits of religion on a practical level, when he spoke about how it created foundation in yourself and community, how it gave your life direction and that the inherent morality in a religion would therefore extend to yourself and your community, it just made a lot of sense, it made me think "yea so maybe some of this religious stuff is hokey but it has a useful purpose that can do more good than harm" and to be honest I kind of embraced that, I started reading more about religion, I actually read the Bible for the first time in my life about 6 months ago at the age of 30.

Anyway regardless of your position on things, hear him out, even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the benefit of the message and the possibility that religion might actually be more helpful to society than lack of religion.

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>>134625717
>I want Americans to hurry up and become 100% non white so we can totally ignore them and their religious rambling.
>Fuck off brown person. Religion is in the white man's past.
wut

>>134625825
Fucking hell you people are easily persuaded.

Used to like this guy a lot more than I do now that I saw his first Sam Harris interview. Still think Sam is a fag, but Jordan spent over an hour rejecting the notion that some things are true even if they're fatal.

>>134625943
Well okay I mean I made it sound simple in what I wrote, I didn't just hear him say one line and have my entire mind changed. I listened to quite a few hours of his talks, I did some reading, this was a gradual thing over months. I wouldn't say I'm full on religious, I still don't go to church, but I have developed more of an interest and where before I could see absolutely no benefit for religion, now I can see how it could be useful.

At the very least I would say my mind is more open to it now, and I certainly wouldn't degrade anyone for being religious or taking interest in it.

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>>134625943
Does someone pay you to shitpost in threads to derail conversation or something?

>>134626310
It's a completely outdated concept founded on the supernatural. There are ways you could contribute to community and have goals on life without resorting to voodoo.

Come on.

We don't need a religion which contains masculine and feminine traits, we need one that is decisively masculine.

Christianity is bipolar some interpret it as peaceful and others are trying to interpret it as warlike.

Paganism does not have this issue or at least to the degree that Christianity does, it does not contain the Judaic elements which hold it back from being decisively masculine.

>>134626627

Christianity has doctrine for righteous war.

I like most of what he says, but his religious shit is weak. Shame that a psychologist can't see his own biases.

It's all based on lies. Therefor it will not succeed.

>>134626503
That's the thing though, if you listen to Peterson he isn't really focused on the supernatural element but on the moral and societal benefits it instills. That's why I'm more interested. The superstitious shit was never appealing to me.

>>134624927
>in the West

Not if he keeps straw-manning Marxism, a modern Western value.

It's fascinating that as Americans go to sleep the religious shit posting decreases.

>>134627031
Okay so shake the bones and sacrifice a chicken so that you can work up the energy to paint over the graffiti and get a promotion. Good man.

>>134624927
>Another E-celeb thread
Sure he will the youtube advice man will surely save the world.

>>134626627
>We don't need a religion which contains masculine and feminine traits, we need one that is decisively masculine.
You couldn't be more wrong. Masculinity and femininity need to co-exist in harmony with one another. When there's too much masculinity you end up with Islam. When there's too much femininity you end up with feminism. This is likewise why it's so important for children to be raised with strong male AND female role models in their lives.

Varg is the superior crazy Internet uncle.

>>134626777

Says you and a small minority of "christians" today.

And when does that come? When whites become minorities in their own countries?

The problem with doctrine is that it does not account for subversive preemptive action.

>>134627217
Christianity was an attempt at the masculine/feminine synthesis which resulted in it becoming more feminine than masculine which is to say more Judaic than Hellenic.

Paganism is also an attempt at the masculine/feminine synthesis but is more masculine than feminine.

Islam is pure masculine and Judaism is pure feminine.

>>134627217
>Masculinity and femininity need to co-exist in harmony with one another.
Why?

He's spent too much time in (((academia))) not challenging himself.

How he can have read Nietzsche yet hold the views he does is weird. He's not intellectually honest and too biased.

God is dead and it's a good thing too. Maybe we can make some meaningful progress now.

Weak minded people are post strong willed intelligent people have had the shackles ripped off.

The last thing the white race needs is another cucked slave morality.

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>>134624927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ

Jewish-Marxists BTFO by J.P. in that it summarizes EVERY knowledged idea that J.P. has learned to-date.

This is the best laid-out argument he has had to date. Post-modernist Jews and Cultural Marxists BTFO.

This is THE most important issue in our day. The youth are being subverted and he is exposing it, all and out.

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, everyone. Professor of Psychology; University of Toronto. Yuri Bezmenov quoted, Hitler quoted, Jewish-Marxist BTFO for eternity.

>>134624927

He's definitely interesting and I've also started on that lecture series.

>>134625386

He's actually a lot smarter than anyone thinks. He'll throw out redpilled shit on all kinds of subjects but if it's more sensitive he'll word it like he's not sure if he believes it or not, but then present a compelling argument for it and basically imply that "people like him" would believe that.

Even if the impression he gives of Christianity isn't perfect, he's at least creating a first step between the modern secular West and a return to religion, and that's a good thing.

>>134627614
there's a sense of wholeness they're trying to point towards.

>>134627805
What's the point of being "whole" with something detrimental? That's like wanting to keep a tumor.

>>134627761
Marxistphobia, many such cases! Sad!

>>134627728

>God is dead and it's a good thing too
>and it's a good thing too

That's not what Nietzsche believed. I hope this is just bait

>>134624927
>$677k a year from Patreon
Jesus fucking Christ

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>>134625386
>hacks making 50 grand a month
lmao

>>134627614
One is lost without the other. Masculinity without feminism is a sword with no handle that can't be gripped without cutting oneself. Femininity without masculinity is a rose bush without thorns that gets eaten by the animals.

christianity is fucking retarded, surely you idiots don't actually BELIEVE that bronze age nonsense
>omg dude what if like, bad things happened, because like, we made a sky-man angry?

>>134628097
>Masculinity without feminism
meant to say femininity. Feminism can go straight to hell

>>134625717
SLIDE THREAD CONFIRMED

>>134627908
surely. but the key is to determine what is detrimental and in what way. It seems like we're beating around the bush a little here, and it may be helpful to be a little more specific. What exactly is it that you think is detrimental?

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>>134628172
whoa dude I bet no one in this thread has ever heard such a comprehensive argument against religion before. So deep, such an original thinker.

>>134625386
this is a character assassination attempt

>>134627937

Not bait.

It was necessary for God to die so the Overman could live.

>>134628097
>One is lost without the other.
What does a man need a woman for other than that axe wound between her legs that could potentially pop out more men?

>>134628430
I'm guessing you don't have a very good relationship with your mother

>>134627908
>>134628430

Girls must love you

>>134626503
Peterson's most important point is that there's more to religion than muh skydaddy. He is exploring Christianity as the West's collective cultural legacy with roots going back to the dawn of Man.

Islam is so dangerous because it has retained tribal thinking while the West has arrogantly assumed itself to have progressed beyond that ('we're world citizens!'). In reality, all it has give us is a feeling of deep malaise and helplessness as it has stripped us of our cultural and ethnic identities.

To return to a mentality of strength and resolve we need a new rallying point for our civilization. A new treatment of Christianity for a post-religion society, one through the lens of evolutionary biology, has the potential to be that rallying point.

>>134627761
Take cocaine.
Take cocaine all the time.
You should be nose deep in that stuff non-stop.
Right?

>>134628564
>there's more to religion than muh skydaddy
Every time I talk about religion I have to repeat this multiple times.

>>134625727
>>134625825
>>134628564
The problem is Christianity is not about "morals" or "finding yourself" or "Western civilization". No self-respecting church is ever going to teach that. Christianity is belief in the divinity of Christ, pretty much by definition, don't you think?

Even if we just say "lol fuck it" and all join churches because it's socially convenient, the New Testament is opposed to almost everything /pol/ believes in. The New Testament tells you to put following Christ over *everything* else, family, country, basically any kind of planning for the future. You *cannot* be both a Christian and a nationalist (even a civic nationalist). This is one thing Varg is very correct about.

>>134627127
stop being defeatist scum, it won't get you anywhere in life

>>134628502
>>134628534
>cue shaming lingo
How often do you get laid defending m'ladies honor online?

Were I a demon looking to try to convince a bunch of clever young men that God is totally irrelevant, I would look exactly like Mr. Peterson.

>>134625513
>using art and storytelling to convey complex lessons in morality and psychology
>fairy tails
kys, child

>>134628999

Oh boy, I hope you fix yourself up before you go all Elliott Rogers on some innocent girl

>>134628919

>The problem is Christianity is not about "morals" or "finding yourself" or "Western civilization". No self-respecting church is ever going to teach that. Christianity is belief in the divinity of Christ, pretty much by definition, don't you think?

The number one thing that most strongly determines what you believe is how you live. Peterson knows this, he's too smart not to.

>You *cannot* be both a Christian and a nationalist (even a civic nationalist). This is one thing Varg is very correct about.

Idiot

>>134628999
Anyone who understands the importance that a mother plays in her children's lives can understand the importance of femininity as a whole. If you can't understand the importance of motherhood then the only logical conclusion is that you've had a damaging or non-existent relationship with your own mother, meaning the entire basis of your argument is emotional and personal (which ironically makes it extremely feminine).

>>134624927

Peterson helped me grow out of atheism. I was very sceptical when I started watching his videos, but I came to realise I was unable to refute his arguments.

I don't know if I'm a Christian, but I fundamentally know there is more to life than what I did, and opening your eyes like that changes you in a way that is impossible to return from.

>>134629329
Or you could just answer the question, you know.

>>134628694
"Fire will cleanse everything!" That's what Hitler believed, and that's worth fighting for!

>>134626503
>Come on
IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR

>>134624927
sure Jordan

>>134629372
What arguments in particular?

Take a listen to this video. He's hit the nail on the head so succinctly that I'm surprised Shareblue isn't working 24/7 to shut him down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ

No he's not perfect, but he's a goddamn blessing for sure.

>>134625483
You clean your room. What gives you the right to tell others to clean there room while your room is filled with Shit? How about therapist or police men or judges who can't control there own kids or themselves does that mean they shouldn't be in that position?

>>134629720
All so what is the purity test that we will use to tell if there rooms are clean enough? God?

>>134629372
exactly. i think the trick that drew people away from the path was convincing them that Christianity is and should be this super literal fairy tale book, instead of as a fluid summation of human social knowledge and experience geared towards building generally good and stable civilizations

>>134629750
There is no test. Keep cleaning, bucko.

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>people still take this pseud seriously

he got intellectually demolished by Sam Harris

>>134625488
Sorry kmm8 Christianity is fucking stupid just as much h as Peterson is a fucking faggot Canadian. New age spouding memes that a bunch of kekistan retards love

>>134629836
Sam Harris is the pseud desu.

>>134629836
But that's true. You just have the concept of God confused with the concept of the Abrahamic God.

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>>134629817
New age trash go rceleb your fucking and us

>>134629329
Women detected

>>134629873
I listened to both of their conversations, and every time Peterson would finish giving a totally secular explanation for archetypes, personality, belief, and value structures, Harris would autistically screech about "muh supernatural claims" and he didn't have any arguments except that.

So because Peterson never argued for any supernatural claims or a supernatural instance of god, Harris was screeching into the abyss and not adding to the conversation. He looked like a damn fool.

>>134630061
Nah just someone who doesn't hate his own mother and sisters.

>>134629966
so why is he pushing christianity then?

why not the idea of brahman in hinduism which is more appropriate?

>>134629836
wtf I love Ayn Rand now

>>134630288
Because Christianity is aligned to the West, and always has been. Do you think that an Eastern religion is going to work here?

>>134630288
Because Hinduism isn't part of western culture and didn't give rise to western civilization. Watch the video someone posted above - he's completely transparent in his fight against those who wish to undermine western values.

>>134628919

But almost no Christians actually live that way. They still focus on themselves and their family. They still sin effortlessly.

The scruples don't really matter when the main tenets are ignored. It is a strong western community with mild, infrequent Christ-LARPing

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>>134626140
Every fan of his should watch both discussions

Peterson's logic is simply not sound in anything they discussed. His arguments for religion are not sound. His basis of 'truth' fundamentally relies on making truth whatever he deems to desirable for 'society' and anything that may harm 'society' is not 'truth'. His logic means that if A can be true and A can be false depending on the viewers physical situation and what would be most beneficial to their survival. It's insane.

I'm sick of vocal majorities just shilling the most recent Christian apologist because what he says makes them feel good. It's the psuedo-intellectual fans of his that are the primary problem.

>>134625513
fucking atheists are like the democrats that keep losing elections over here and doubling down on their dogma; you have no idea how many reject you on general principle due to unbearable sanctimony. holy shit, grow up.

ps getting hats now on the captcha...anybody else?

>>134630388
Western values like democracy, equality, liberty and brotherhood?

Maybe we really need something new if we're stuck with that shit as long as we have Christianity around.

>>134630661
Why won't you just come out and say that you want to destroy Western Civilization?

>>134630802
If western civilization is these things then I won't have to actively destroy anything. It'll destroy itself.

>>134630609
>His basis of 'truth' fundamentally relies on making truth whatever he deems to desirable for 'society' and anything that may harm 'society' is not 'truth'.
That's a complete misunderstanding of his argument. If Peterson has one flaw it's that ideas are often too complex and abstract, even for smart people.

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>>134624927
>ignite a religious revival of Christianity in the West

>>134625386
Yeah you seem to be doing a great job of it, whatever you do. Keep using that big brain of yours super Christian knowledge anon

>>134630802
Western civilization is negro presidents forcing christcuckolds to bake cakes for gay weddings and winning a Nobel peace prize shortly after drone striking some peasants in the middle east. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of societies over the years you claim as 'westwrn civilization'. You logically say Christianity resulted in things like scientific discovery but deny it ultimately led to the situation we're in now.

Just admit you like modern society and all its filth.

>>134630929
Or maybe his ideas don't actually make sense and pepper just pretend like they do?
Watch the Sam Harris discussion.

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He's too Christianity what Reza Aslan is to Islam.

I mean, Americans are pretty much were Europeans were in the 70s or 80s so, were you had all these liberal theologians who tried to interpret the Bible with a Jungian approach and shit like that.

>>134626140
>Jordan spent over an hour rejecting the notion that some things are true even if they're fatal.
he softened up on this a lot in the second podcast. we're allowed to be wrong sometimes.

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>>134631137
>I don't understand it so everyone who claims to understand it must be pretending because I'm always the smartest person in the room

>>134624927
There's evolutionary biology, evolutionary psychology, etc.

JBP is doing evolutionary theology / mysticism.

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>>134631163
>He's too Christianity what Reza Aslan is to Islam.
They even look alike

>>134631528
Reza Aslan makes Sam Harris look like an intellectual God, much less Peterson. He doesn't even know how to fake being an intellectual well

>>134631137
>but deny it ultimately led to the situation we're in now.
No, Marxism did.

>>134631137
>You logically say Christianity resulted in things like scientific discovery but deny it ultimately led to the situation we're in now.
you'd have to study this subject for the rest of your life before you could genuinely understand the interplay of the millions of complex factors that led to the place we are now, history and humanity are far too complicated to be boiled down to something retarded like Christianity gave rise to scientific discovery, or that Christianity is responsible for modern liberalism.

saying that Christianity is responsible for Marxism or science is just a hopelessly simplistic argument. you sound like you're trying to create a narrative in order to understand the past rather than trying to understand the past as it really was, because doing that is fantastically difficult.

>>134629268
That is pretty much the definition of a fairy tale.

>>134630426
>Because Hinduism isn't part of western culture and didn't give rise to western civilization

Firstly Christianity didn't give rise to western civilization either, we already had civilization before that (Rome, greece, germanic civilizations). But secondly, his argument supports a hindu interpretation of God more so than a Christian interpretation. Yet he advocates Christianity because 'its western therefore it's appropriate'. He is appealing to culture rather than to reason.

>>134625717
>ireland
bitch who the fuck are you

>>134631999
>Yet he advocates Christianity
he says he sticks to Christian and western thought because it's what he's familiar with

>>134625717
McGregor is shitposting again.

Fook off, Conor.

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>>134627728
>God is dead.
>Its a good thing.

>>134625943
Shut up ya fuckin dope

>>134627728
Becomes obvious when he talks about the JQ

>>134632098
firstly he doesn't 'just stick to christianity', he makes lectures around his own christianity and and calls it profound (sure he explores some eastern religions like buddhism but it's mostly christian stories).

And again, if the argument points one way but he ignores it and 'sticks to what he's familiar with', then that's intellectually dishonest (and a fallacy). How can you not see that he has an ulterior motive to promote his own religion, sprinkle some jungian hocus pocus and call it psychology/philosophy? This dude is completely a hack and playing you for a fool.

>>134632476

He's not a conman just a neuter

>>134632525
>He's not a conman
>>134628019

>>134625825
>opened my eyes to the benefits of religion on a practical level

This is the definition of modernism. French Catholic Charles Peguy once defined a modernist as someone who "doesn't believe what he believes." He doesn't believe it's true, he believes it USEFUL. Once you accept this kind of thinking and put what is useful for your socio-political into the center of your thoughts, you will effectively leave behind the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and just create your own surrogate God. An honest atheist, esotericst, occultist or whatever is better than that kind of pseudo-Christian dishonest bullshit.

>>134629286
I don't know what to tell you man, read the New Testament for yourself and then come back and tell me I'm wrong.

>>134630592
Yes, pretty much LARPing. I grew up a fundie Christian, memorized Bible verses every week, got saved and baptized, the whole thing. Kind of fell away from it when I finally realized everyone else was just bullshitting to get by.

I just don't get it, if you take away the whole "God actually existing" thing and ignore anything in the Bible inconsistent with political goals, what's the point? It seems like Marxist tier intellectual dishonesty.

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>>134632467
Look at this scared jew react as peterson talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7AewaHr0Q

>>134632590
The correct term for that is "pragmatist" and our society absolutely needs more pragmatism.

>>134627728
>God is dead and it's a good thing too

Nietzsche disagrees. Only a fucking leaf could make such a post.

http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html

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>>134632661
>our society absolutely needs more pragmatism

No, we need more fanaticism and radicalism and fundamentalism.
"Pragmatism" is for Jebs! or for Republicans who want Trump to destroy Iran.

>>134624927
nice. i think Noah and the Flood was his best lecture yet.

the amount of high quality content peterson is producing at the moment is insane.

>>134626627
On the surface I would agree, however upon closer meditation I came to see it differently. No one person is wired to be exactly the same. We all have our individual nature, some more passive and meek. Others like David of the OT. This initially may seem inclusive to being either one or the other, however it is meant to show that God is a being of Perfect Harmony. We as humans are not, therefore He is trying to convey ( I've come to believe) that being one or the other is still in line with His Will

>>134628919
Honestly I don't have an answer to this. I feel deeply disappointed with current churches. They don't offer any of the invigorating and thought-provoking ideas of a Peterson. In fact they're often just the opposite: stagnant, dust-covered, weak and fearful collectives of mostly the elderly.

History has demonstrated that you can be Christian and a nationslist, but it requires a willful mindset we've lost through our arrogant obsession with our own intellect. Right now I can't find this mindset in modern churches and it frustrates me and causes resentment, particularly when I see Christian churches buckling to muslim communities with this mindset, and not learning from them.

There's a building energy looking for a lighting rod and I hope someone finally realizes it.

>>134632476
>if the argument points one way but he ignores it and 'sticks to what he's familiar with', then that's intellectually dishonest
i'd have thought it's more intellectually dishonest to lecture on topics you don't know or understand properly. he hasn't read enough eastern mythology, philosophy or religious thought to be able to expound on it in a meaningful or useful way, so he doesn't do it. he talks about Jung, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky and the Bible because that's what he knows best. you seem to feel that he's obligated go outside his own ken for some reason.

>promote his own religion
in my opinion he is propounding the use and truth found in mythological and narrative structures more than he is for Christianity specifically.

in my experience his "ulterior motive" is to convince young western males to accept the responsibility that they must in order for them to live the kind of meaningful lives that they must in order to carry society forward rather than allow it to collapse. i truly can't imagine how you could have watched any of his videos and felt that he was a simple con artist from the way he speaks or carries himself. to me he seems genuine through and through.

>>134627728
You forget what Nietzsche said after he declared the death of God

>>134633072
>History has demonstrated that you can be Christian and a nationslist

History has demonstrated that people with power (all power comes out of the barrels of guns that have to be paid by someone) can reshape Christianity into whatever they like, and that they if they use a carrot and stick approach (burn the "radicals", give money to others) they pretty much get what they want.

How did Catholicism survive for 2000 years? Well, just look at what they did recently: Ratzinger was actually getting a lot of respect from many intellectuals and was just about to restore Catholicism. But in order to survive, this whore that is Rome made him go and installed that cynical Argentinian in order to become part of the new diverse multicultural open-borders world order.

>>134624927
>decide to become a university professor and public speaker
>have the most nasally and annoying voice imaginable accompanied by constantly autistic body language

He'd be able to spread his message much further if he got someone with actual charisma to do his speeches for him.

>>134633408
>History has demonstrated that people with power (all power comes out of the barrels of guns that have to be paid by someone) can reshape Christianity into whatever they like, and that they if they use a carrot and stick approach (burn the "radicals", give money to others) they pretty much get what they want.

There is no reason to believe, btw, that this won't work with Islam, either. /pol/ sometimes ends up making Muslims like total badasses: these men who cannot be bend nor broken but who just march on and on until they have installed Sharia and put the bitches back into line. /pol/ makes the best ads for Islam. Unfortunately, that's just not true.

>>134633072
The answer is simple friend, reject the dogma and institionalism that is not in line with what is Truth. Nothing made by man is perfect, so refine what is there down for yourself.

If Christianity makes a come back in the west I'll be siding with the Muslims until Christianity is back in its box. Then I'll get back to working against Islam.

>>134633463

Psychology professors often seem to be these anorexic looking guys in skinny suits and jeans. My psychology professor in college looks similar: old, grey-haired but strangely skinny with skinny suits and an odd kind of body languiage.

>>134633588
That's why you'll always be a redneck potato nigger

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>>134633588
Mashallah, brother.

>>134633729
The majority of American children are non white. Your battle was lost decades ago! Good bye christcuck!

>>134633119
>you seem to feel that he's obligated go outside his own ken for some reason.

Not at all, I'm just saying that if there is a more appropriate interpretation of something that matches his own, then he can't possibly be narrow minded about it. He talks about an abstractual God that is different to what 97% of christians past and present believed in. If someone introduced him to the idea of brahman in hinduism, why would he reject it on the grounds that it isn't in his forte? It's illogical. This is why Schopenhauer looked to east and saw myriad gems of philosophy untouched and delve into it instead of sticking to his own culture and glorifying it.

>in my experience his "ulterior motive" is to convince young western males to accept the responsibility that they must in order for them to live the kind of meaningful lives that they must in order to carry society forward rather than allow it to collapse. i truly can't imagine how you could have watched any of his videos and felt that he was a simple con artist from the way he speaks or carries himself. to me he seems genuine through and through.

Of course you'd come to that conclusion if you watch it on face value, that's what hacks or conmans do. They act genuine and honest, but a wise person sees through this and examines his reasoning and ideas for what they are, and they are nothing more than ploys to get people interested in Christianity again.

>>134633854
The entirety of Irish children are non white. Your battle never even begun.

>>134625483
Doing what the (((vacuum cleaner))) wants.

>>134633588
Good goy

>>134634210
Literally worshipping a jew.

>>134633904
he talks about an aspect of God that modern Christians have forgotten about. he talks about ideas that have only been articulated in the last century while having been present in mythological structures throughout our history. people have been talking about the death of Christianity for hundreds of years now, if it's going to survive it needs creative thinkers capable of revitalising and rejuvenating it at its core. it would be strange indeed if he only said what everyone else already believed.

I've never heard him say that he's dismissed eastern thinking, only that he doesn't know enough about it to lecture on it. if you believe his lectures would be well served with an injection of eastern philosophy get in contact with him and explain why you believe this. can you demonstrate that Brahmanism better serves his thinking than the western philosophers do? that Hinduism is superior to Christianity? if so than go ahead and do it.

>Of course you'd come to that conclusion if you watch it on face value
i've seen through first-hand experience that his lectures are able to sweep away nihilism and fill young men with hope make them desirous of bearing responsibility. he tells people to become strong, independent individuals capable of carrying the torch of civilisation forwards. if the fruit of these labours lead to him being rewarded financially I think it's a good thing, and if you call this con-artistry i'll call you a cynic. in the miserable age we live in this man is doing good works and it's greatly needed now.

>>134624927
>says some incredibly interesting and smart shit about a lot of things
>while at the same time is religious
How can people be so smart and dumb at the same time?

>>134634961
He does not say anything that great. He is a replacement father figure for fatherless Americans. Everything he says is just common sense or what you dad might say to you if you wernt studying and just playing vidya.

Get a job
Be someone
Get a girl
Live a life.

And since it's Americans they need to make it about religion.

>>134629842
t. shill

>>134624927
His religious underpinnings are all influenced by Jung, who was Gnostic in his interpretations.
I don't think Gnosticism is compatible with Judeo-Christianity but it I believe it is compatible with Hellenistic-Christianity

>>134634797
>he talks about an aspect of God that modern Christians have forgotten about.

Yes because in the middle ages, the masses believed in a sophisticated idea of God similar to Aquinas' concept. Get real man, his main ideas come from jung, neeche, etc. and all of these people lived in the 19/20th century. In fact, it's modern christians that have a more abstractual concept of God than what people who burned witches for blasphemy did

>if it's going to survive it needs creative thinkers capable of revitalising and rejuvenating it at its core. it would be strange indeed if he only said what everyone else already believed

So are you admitting that people like peterson only exist to rejuvenate Christianity because it might die? Or are you just giving him credit because you want your own religion to survive? Either way you are not doing him any justice this way and are just proving my point.

>can you demonstrate that Brahmanism better serves his thinking than the western philosophers do? that Hinduism is superior to Christianity? if so than go ahead and do it

I didn't even suggest it is 'superior', that's the dichotomy you attribute not me. The idea of brahman as an unchanging first and final cause of reality fits more appropriately in Peterson's conception of God. Sure there are indian overtones, but so is christianity with jewish overtones. It just seems to me you are quick to judge ideas based on their cultural achievements, not in the ideas themselves, which is also why Peterson still persists on Christianity, because it's "done a lot for the west" (despite the major achievements starting from the enlightenment period).

> if the fruit of these labours lead to him being rewarded financially I think it's a good thing, and if you call this con-artistry i'll call you a cynic. in the miserable age we live in this man is doing good works and it's greatly needed now

Yes I'm the cynic for criticizing him for free (lol). You know deep down he's the real cynic.

The only way to really make something out of what he speaks is to have a lecture every week and then go to the world and act accordingly

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>>134633072
I guess this is a cultural split between Europeans and Americans. Right-wing churches in America get involved in politics for their own reasons, but they're extremely independent with their doctrines and beliefs. They are not going to agree to a a secular nationalist church, you are stuck with trying to recruit agnostics and atheists.

You would have to infiltrate the existing churches, then chip away at their leadership and education structure over time until Christians are more agreeable to the "correct" religious doctrines and political positions. That doesn't sound like "preserving Western civilization" to me.

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>>134625717
Fuck off McGregor!

>>134633532
>too stupid to integrate or contribute
>total badass
whoah, really activated my almonds

>>134636676
>integrating and contributing to a diseased society
Why?
>>total badass
They must be, why else would you give them what they want if they're "too stupid to integrate or contribute"?

>>134636795
>Why?
>a fascist leech
Can't hide that leaf, bud.

>>134636921
Can't answer the question, cuck :^)

>>134624927
He already did for me. I'm a practicing Christian now

>>134635765
i'm not Christian.

>are you admitting that people like peterson only exist to rejuvenate Christianity because it might die?
anything dies if not rejuvenated. i didn't "admit" that he "only exists" to rejuvenate it though, as I said before he hasn't been focused on Christianity for most of his lecturing, but more the mythological structures that underlie it. he's spent as much time on Egyptian and Sumerian mythology as he has Christian theology, and he frequently mentions how Christianity is built upon older forms. he sees religious thought as spanning back through evolutionary history and having started millions of years ago.

but taking this line
>He talks about an abstractual God that is different to what 97% of christians past and present believed in
i'm not sure I agree with that, it's more that they believed in the same God but we've only recently been able to take their abstraction and make it articulate.

Peterson's mentioned many times that he won't talk about a topic until he has it fully formulated in his mind, that he has to be extraordinarily careful about what he says due to all the scrutiny on him due to his fame. eastern thinking isn't within his realm of knowledge, for whatever reason i don't know, so he doesn't speak about it. it's you that are putting this obligation on him, but you haven't actually made the argument that it's something he must do.

>It just seems to me you are quick to judge ideas based on their cultural achievements, not in the ideas themselves, which is also why Peterson still persists on Christianity
you're overstating how much he 'persists' on Christianity, while he's doing a series on it currently it hasn't been a significant part of his previous lectures, and when he mentions it it's more that he's worried about how readily we are willing to discard it more than how much we ought to dedicate ourselves to it.

>You know deep down he's the real cynic.
no i don't.

>>134636989
It's not a worthy question. A "total badass" wouldn't have to settle for what he was given. Out of pity.
>why would you
>Austria
heh

>>134637203
>A "total badass" wouldn't have to settle for what he was given.
Looking at how they keep demanding more and they're given more, that's not the case either.

And again, what good is contributing and integrating into a diseased society like ours going to do?

>>134636676
>>too stupid to integrate or contribute

Why would any sane man want to integrate into Swedish society?

>>134625825
Sure it may help with community, but do you really want to jump into the other desert cult?

>>134637292
>demand
Beg.
>what good is
Doesn't matter. Having the potential is better than not regardless of whatever nihilistic bullshit you spew.
>>134637452
They're intellectually 12 year olds. Pointing out their bleak prospects isn't making them out to be some unbreakable badasses.

>>134628172
Sounds like someone needs to sort themselves out.

>>134637697
>Doesn't matter.
Of course it matters, Sven. That you can't answer the question should tell you everything you need to know about your society.

>>134637115
I doubt it but you know some of the American subhuman's mean what they say regarding religion. It's in their (((culture))).

>>134637891
I did. Potentiality > impotence.
Don't have to define the meaning of life. If there is any, being able to realize it is better than not. Nihilism is a pointless game and I'm not playing it. You can excuse your failure as a person by yourself.

>>134624927
>I unironically think Jordan B. Peterson will ignite a religious revival of Christianity in the West.

Not in Europe where all of the protestant&catholic churches push a liberal agenda.

>>134637145
>i'm not Christian.
ok..?

>he frequently mentions how Christianity is built upon older forms

Hinduism is also built upon older forms. I can tell you that it has more in common with egyptian religion and indo-european religion than Christianity. So why is he highlighting the latter? Oh I get it's because he doesn't know enough about it and it isn't his domain and that i'm pressuring him to become a indologist...... get real

>it's you that are putting this obligation on him, but you haven't actually made the argument that it's something he must do.

once again I am not obliging him to learn about hinduism and buddhism (even though he knows the basics already) but if there exists a more fitting idea of God other than christianity, why would he suggest that christianity must be the right formula for the west? I mean even if I did oblige him to expand his horizon of knowledge, he'd still seem dishonest for sticking to something that is both personally less fitting in his idea of God and obviously not in the mainstream of christian thought. Again he doesn't need to learn about it if he doesn't want to, but that doesn't mean that other ideas of god within other religions are less appropriate for his argument.

>i'm not sure I agree with that, it's more that they believed in the same God but we've only recently been able to take their abstraction and make it articulate.

You can make it articulate as you want, but the bible clearly limits the scope of God so that it never gets too abstract to the point that it isn't 'God' anymore but something else. What do you think people believed in 1000 AD? that he is just some 'force' supplanting the universe? lol

cont..

>>134637145
>you're overstating how much he 'persists' on Christianity, while he's doing a series on it....(sic)

But why would he want us to dedicate our lives to it? Isn't that what preachers do? And btw christianity IS a feature in his life. Given, he isn't ardent nor proud but he clearly stated in joe rogan podcast that he believes in god, jesus, etc. Like I said con-men don't just go out and say 'my religion is the true, be a follower and accept christ as your lord and saviour'. JBP is just a first step.

>>134638198
>Potentiality > impotence.
Why would that matter when it's not reasonable to do something in the first place? How would you even determine whether or not someone has the potential to do something when they choose not to do it, because it's not a reasonable thing to do?
And now we're back at "why should one integrate and contribute to this diseased society" and you can't answer it because no one should.

What's it like when all you can do is call people that aren't stupid enough to service the cuck machine names on the internet, Sven?

>>134628694
>>134629531
Anyone who hasn't seen it.

https://youtu.be/n_4UFMp19tE

>>134639175
You're deflecting. I said they lack potentiality. It was never an argument about realization. Acknowledge the point first if you want to change the subject.

>>134639518
> I said they lack potentiality.
>>134639175
>How would you even determine whether or not someone has the potential to do something when they choose not to do it, because it's not a reasonable thing to do?

>>134639734
You're deflecting again. How to measure potentiality is a separate problem from whether potentiality is superior to impotence.

>>134639861
>whether potentiality is superior to impotence.
If the end result's the same, it's irrelevant.

How can a person that helps people annoy lit so much

is it because he doesn't like pomo in anyway?

>>134639138
I said I'm not a Christian because earlier you'd said
>because you want your own religion to survive?

>So why is he highlighting the latter?
because he believes there is value in it.

>if there exists a more fitting idea of God other than christianity, why would he suggest that christianity must be the right formula for the west?
first off, has he suggested it's the "right formula"?
Christianity has the benefit of 2000 years of European history, so European peoples and European thinking is deeply ensconced in it, so it's certainly of worth to learn about. Hinduism and Buddhism are completely foreign to the western audience and ethos and are unlikely to have nearly as much appeal.
and you've suggested that Hinduism is a more fitting idea of God without ever demonstrating it. so we're arguing over a point that is built on nothing.

Peterson has never dismissed eastern thinkers, he's only ever stated that he's familiar with western thinking and that it has value in it that he wants to express to whoever is interested. to me this seems entirely reasonable, if you want eastern philosophy go listen to someone who specialises in it.

>What do you think people believed in 1000 AD?
i haven't read enough to know that, although what I have read frequently surprises me in how nuanced the ancient thinkers actually were. there's an unearned arrogance in modern man. nevertheless ideas do not start out articulated, but as acted forms that enter into narrative and slowly seep into conscious thought, so it's likely Peterson is talking a God that is somehow different to whatever they thought of Him a thousand years ago.

>But why would he want us to dedicate our lives to it?
has he said we should?

>Like I said con-men don't just...
twice you've asserted now that he's a conman without any evidence. typically for an accusation like that you ought to have more than only your opinion.

>>134629836

You cannot prove something exists by first assuming that it exists. That's just circular logic. You can, however, prove something exists by either demonstrating its existence (e.g. here's god, here's him creating something out of nothing), or by assuming that it doesn't exist and showing a contradiction.

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>>134625386
Start sorting yourself out

>>134640635
Prove your existence with non-circular logic.

>>134626503

Exactly. It's basically Santa Claus, Adult version. Sure, there are some decent morality tales in many religions as well as a shitload of contradictory stuff. Pull what you can from it, then move on. Be an adult and stop worshipping bronze age tribalism tall tales.

>>134625943
This. First /news/ or first /pol/ was reactionary atheism and now they're reactionary "believers". Fucking hilarious.

>>134640998
i am currently experiencing which means i must exist

>>134640414
>I said I'm not a Christian because earlier you'd said

oh ok I was wondering where that came from. I guess that dismantles my argument, a non-christian who thinks christianity is superior and fully supports Peterson's attempt at Christian revival just proved me wrong. kek

>because he believes there is value in it.

There are values in every religion. Heck there are values in islam. He just happens to be a christian I guess.

>Christianity has the benefit of 2000 years of European history

Is that why byzantium fell to the muslims? Roman paganism benefitted europe for 500 years, so why not that? It's more European than christianity is it not?

>and you've suggested that Hinduism is a more fitting idea of God without ever demonstrating it. so we're arguing over a point that is built on nothing.

I didn't say it's a more fitting idea of God in general, i said it's a more fitting idea of Peterson's conception of God.

>Peterson has never dismissed eastern thinkers..(sic)

honestly I've entertained his agnosticism of other religions for awhile now but it seems to me that it's nothing more than a cop out. It's a shame that I can't bring this point to him personally, or if there is someone that asked this because it seems like he is either christian-centric on purpose and that he knows he can't stand up to that scrutiny or that he is merely lazy to explore other ideas despite being an author on ideology. Who knows, he's just not interested eh?....

>i haven't read enough to know that...(sic)

So peterson is talking about a different God than ~97% of believers in the past? And his interpretation is the right one? Come on now...

>has he said we should?
that's what your purporting is it not?

>twice you've asserted now that he's a conman without any evidence. typically for an accusation like that you ought to have more than only your opinion.

He's a dishonest philosopher who tricks people into giving him money. Call it my opinion but it's a valid opinion.

>>134632803
This.

>>134642506
>thinks christianity is superior
i never said that
and i only said I wasn't a Christian because you'd said I was one, I wasn't imagining that it helped my argument.

>There are values in every religion.
And he just happens to be lecturing on Christianity because having grown up in the west it's a topic he knows a lot about that he feels is worth teaching. do you criticise Buddhist scholars for no speaking enough about Christianity as well?

>Is that why byzantium fell to the muslims?
what's that got to do with it
>Roman paganism benefitted europe for 500 years, so why not that?
he has spoken about it
>It's more European than christianity is it not?
it's become evident that you have a bone to pick with Christianity, and most of your arguments devolve into that.

>i said it's a more fitting idea of Peterson's conception of God.
without ever attempting to demonstrate it

>It's a shame that I can't bring this point to him personally
he responded to my email, he'll likely respond to yours.

it's worth remembering he's a psychologist by trade, not a philosopher. the majority of his thoughts are centred in psychology, so while he does go off into many other topics I don't know why you imagine it reasonable to expect him to be an eastern religion expert. being qualified to lecture on any topic takes an enormous amount of time and effort, and he's gone in for the western ethos for the same reason /pol/ does, because it's where we came from and what shines forth to us.

>he is either christian-centric
again he isn't really Christian-centric. i think he's recently started this Bible series because up till now he hadn't gone into the Bible enough, he's never been a Christian scholar. but given it's absolute primacy over the past 2 millenia of European history it is a relevant topic to lecture on, it has far more relevance to us than does Hinduism or Buddhism.

cont.

>>134642506
>So peterson is talking about a different God than ~97% of believers in the past?
he's talking about his God, whatever that is exactly.
>that's what your purporting is it not?
no
>Call it my opinion but it's a valid opinion.
it's an opinion that you've backed up with no evidence.

but anyhow, i'm going to bed. have a good night.

>>134624927
He presents an argument that christian morality is worth adhering to, not that christianity is itself factually correct

>>134643735
ok but just look at this thread before you do
>>>/his/3125330

this is what Peterson wants

don't let yourself be fooled

>>134643780
>He presents an argument that christian morality is worth adhering to
Give me a tl;dw on "why", please.

>>134643962
some psychological shit regarding how it leads to a fulfilling life backed up by observational data

>>134644128
>Jungian psychology
>reliable

muh dreams

>>134625386
>I know more about Christianity than this guy

The Judge thinks otherwise.

>>134627031
Meh. You don't need religion to instill good values. I'm not buying that.

>>134628430
Housekeeping, looking after the kids when they're still young, emotional support, the list goes on.
There's a reason why the human species has two genders. Stop being such an edgy faggot.

>>134625513
JBP's version is always virtual and metaphorical, talking about psychology and moral states.

>>134633072
sspx. go visit them one sunday. and look up the writings of their named organization. saint pius x. he called modernity evil and will lead to great sins.

>>134644806
>Housekeeping, looking after the kids when they're still young, emotional support, the list goes on
None of which is inherently female.

He's alright. Don't hold him as an idol though. It'll lead to a collapse one people see how contradictory his philosophy is.
He's right about living a fulfilling life but that will go down with his religious contradictions. A bit like how tying morality to Christianity caused a disaster once people see religion as bullshit.

>>134644935
And getting an axe and chopping firewood for 8 hours isn't inherently male. Doesn't mean we don't have an advantage.
This conversation is useless as you've already sealed in your idiomatic mindset.
I wish you luck in your pursuit of happiness.

He's an IQ shill. Dropped.

>>134645149
How does a woman have an advantage in these things, anon? How do children raised in single motherhood homes end up?

>>134627031
I've never heard him speak of either moral or societal benefits for religious practice. Are you sure you're not putting words in his mouth?

What I've heard him talk about is /individualism/ as opposed to totalitarian ideologies, and psychological lessons in the stories and so on, but for organized religious practice I've heard not a whiff of advocacy.

>>134632467
You trolleth. He doesn't think there /is/ a Jewish Question. He called a-priori anti-semitism vile (June Patreon Q+A I believe).

>>134645209
t. 80 IQ person

jung alerted that literalism would turn christians into shallow people without real faith

but psychological interpretation is just another non sacred way of viewing SACRED REVELATION

>>134633904
> that's what hacks or conmans do.
Poo, you have to go back.

>>134625488
Yeah man, creationists really screwed over Christians. Trying to argue the Bible as a science book is not smart. They made it easy for atheists make everything hinge on strawman arguments.

>>134646623
this is why the protestants caused such damage to christianity. they claim solo scripta yet look the other way when its mentioned luther changed the bible.

I generally prefer listening to Alan watts before falling asleep.

>>134637145
>>134639138
>>134640414
guys JP has actually touched on what makes Christianity stand special, with a word of caution that he indeed isn't as knowledgeable on other religions. I think it was during a question at the end of one of the bible series talks. I can't quite recall what it was, probably something to do with the logos.

JUDEN PETERSON IS A SHAREBLUE SHILL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wfY5VcBoo

Wow really makes u think, I don't understand how you faggots keep jerking him off.
Gotta make that 600k patreon shekels a year + 200k autism bucks from THE GREATEST SCIENCE IN THE WORLD!!! PSYCHOLOGY!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzO216m5Mkw

Juden Peterson is a crypto kike and you goys know it

JUDEN PETERSON IS A SHAREBLUE SHILL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wfY5VcBoo

Wow really makes u think, I don't understand how you faggots keep jerking him off.
Gotta make that 600k patreon shekels a year + 200k autism bucks from THE GREATEST SCIENCE IN THE WORLD!!! PSYCHOLOGY!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzO216m5Mkw

Jude Peterson is a crypto kike and you goys know it

>>134647679
So Christianity is special because Europeans used pre-existing European philosophy to rationalize following a non-European religion?

>>134643735
I think a major aspect of Christianity or any other ideology is that no single person encapsulates it or can. Each take their meaning from the teaching, construct their own congruent morality, and when a Christian group assembles the various puzzle pieces of the ideology within each person beginning to assert themselves as the complete ideology, trimming the individual dilutions away as chaff. So as a group a congregation exhibits Christ.

But this is not ideal, as it basically boils down to a socially constructed morality. What Christ exhorts us to do in my view, is to build yourself into a complete Christian, so that you don't rely on the group for your personal agency. In Christ we see the integrity of the individual used to incorporate a complete set of tenets. Our goal is to be a legible letter of Christ on an individual basis, so that others see the individual power and benefit of completing the Christian ideology in oneself.

Christianity without Judaism is ideal.
This queer is just peddling Zionist trash.
Noah and the other OT figures didnt even exist.
How is furthering Jewish deception helpful again?

>>134644935
he's a big guy

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>>134650365
nvm wanted to reply to OP

>>134625717
>>134625943
>>134626503
>>134627067
>>134627127
>>134627252
were you fuckin abused by the church or something

>>134635154
kek good post for a potato nigger. obvious psy ops is obvious but ameritards are fucking stupid

>>134626503
Some people certainly can, but they are in the minority. Don't kid yourself, religion is for stupid people and there are plenty of stupid people out there. Take the religion out and those people suffer. And they make everyone suffer in return, because society needs those stupid minions to keep functioning. Breakdown of the family, drug epidemic, degeneracy, single motherhood, etc., you can pretty much track it all down to lack of religion for the masses. No human civilisation has lasted very long without religion. You don't have to be religious to recognize its merits. Stop acting like an edgy teenager.

>>134624927
christ I hope so

>>134625717
Pearse is right now at the right hand of God, praying on your behalf for His intercession

>>134625717
Get necked you fucking jew

>>134629329
Freudian bullshit, mysoginists have usually healthy relationships with their mothers. They don't project a mother figure on their girlfriend or other women, they see women as they are. The opposite case is unhealthy, a woman is not a mother replacement, she can't love unconditional like a mother, that's a romantic delusion.

>>134650544
Nah. Religion is one of the few things young people think they can argue against safely, because to them it all boils down to "fairy tales." It's indicative of a human who thinks they've spent a lot of time thinking about something but if you read his posts they all boil down to the same "you can be a good person without religion so religion is pointless" garbage that every teenager thinks up at one point in his life.
In short, he just feels very Euphoric.

>this many fedoras in a single thread
>current year