Question for atheists that believe in free will

>>134585428
bump

we experience what we think is free will, just like some religious nuts say they feel good.

Now it might just be an illusion and we might not have free will, but if we dont the whole debate is absolutely pointless when we cant decide if we believe it or not.

>>134585428
don't think i've ever met an atheist that believed in free will.

>>134585428
of course free will doesn't exist. That would violate the law of conservation of energy.

>>134585428
It's not that I believe in free will, it's that I consciously make choices every day.

>>134585428
It's my free will to call you an assfaggotbitch

>>134585428
We have as much free will as a dog. At the end of the day are instincts dictate what we do. No matter how much you wanted to you couldn't bite your own dick off unless you're mentally ill.

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>>134585428

To an artificial mind all reality is virtual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUdp_DbJnRQ

Free will is transcendent magic, divinity. It can impact the material world yet, by definition, is not bound by it. No coherent atheist can support the fiction of free will. Yet without free will there is no self. If there is no self, yet there is conscious awareness (as anyone clearly experiences) then there is only the single consciousness. God.

Ultimately God exists without you but you only exist when you find God. That's why they say God gives free will, a soul. What they don't mention is that that gift is given directly.

Until then, happy autopilot, atheist.

>>134587111
>No matter how much you wanted to you couldn't bite your own dick off unless you're mentally ill.
i would say its about me not getting my face close enough, but i could bite off a finger if you gave me a billion dollars, in advance.

>>134585428
>So why do you believe in free will?

I've never yet been able to change a choice I've made in the past so I'm questioning if I have free will in terms of practical outcomes.

However for all reasonable applications of free will I make choices in reaction to stimuli, is absence of stimuli and in snap cases vastly faster than any potential subconscious influence.

The science suggesting subconscious influence is also extremely suspect and generally regarded as more a case of fixing conditions to make some choices more likely than any actually relation of subconscious and conscious.

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>>134587250
>Free will is transcendent magic, divinity. It can impact the material world yet, by definition, is not bound by it.

Explain brain damage, coma and death.

>>134585428
If what you say is correct, isn't our subconcious part of ourselves? So it is still us making the decisions. However, even if we don't actually have free will, we have the illusion of it to the point where it is essentially true. I can go do anything I can imagine doing that is inside my means. That is free will to me.

>>134585428
Its absolutely irrelevant in every sense of the word, if we have it or not. Its impossible to distinguish a person who is "programmed" to be good from a person who is just good.
Because you subconsciously make some decisions it doesn't make them not yours. This idea that only conscious part of your brain is "you" is ridiculous.
Everything about you IS you. Your genes, your subconsciousness and your consciousness. Inability to perfectly control it doesn't make it not yours, since you also cant control your heartbeat and how your organs work, but they are still are 100% yours and you bear responsibility for every one of them.

Every decision, conscious or otherwise is made by you and is a product of your will in the only way that it matters.

>>134585428
Free will is a philosophical construct of our race. It's the same as "justice", or "equality", or any other ephemeral headspaces and ideas. It's not something to be "proven", it's a description. We make choices. That ability implies a free will, that our choices are not dictated by another power.
"God" is the same. There's no "proving" God, because religion is a construct we as humans invented to cope with the world. As society and civilization evolved, the need for it to explain things and reign in behavior lessens.
I don;'t expect someone who "believes" to understand that, you lost that ability once you surrendered to the "religion" and "faith" construct. If you choose that, I don't have a problem with it, because we have free will to believe what we want to.

>>134585428
>So why do you believe in free will?
I don't?

A better question is why do they believe in reality.
>I believe in reality because my senses tell me it's real
>I believe in my senses because my senses tell me they're real.
Compared to
>I believe in God because the Bible tells me He exists.
>I believe in the Bible because the Bible says it's true.
Same shit, different subject.

i believe in situational free will, or limited free will.

i have the capacity to make the decisions that are available to me., true free will is a flawed illusion imo.

this isnt an atheist related question at all.

>>134587250
Id rather go to hell with every other atheists than spend a minute, not to mention eternity, with people who speak such brilliance.

>we have free will because god commands us to have it

>>134587435

Your body does not equate with you. It only encapsulates you. If yoy have brain damage you still will/desire and choose, but your mind is unable to mold reason around your desires. Think of a pilot in a broken mech. You can extend this ghost in the shell argument to the other two cases you gave.

>>134587497
>>134587602
Of course it's still 'us' that make the decisions, but you seems to miss the point. If free will does not exist, responsibility is gone. Absence of free will implies determinism in our decisions. The implications of this are obviously huge. Take our judicial system for example. Without responsibility for our actions, punishment becomes irrational (criminals would naturally still be locked up to protect society, but we can't really blame them anything). And what about pride of our accomplishments (or shame because our lack thereof)? You had no choice.

>>134585428
Being able to make desicions is basically the definition of free will. If you are talking about determinism though, then yes, free will doesn't exist. But determinism has nothing to do with atheism.

>>134585428
>atheists that believe in free will
If you're an an atheist and you believe in free will the way religitards do, that you're some being that makes decisions outside the fixed laws of nature, you're just as dumb as them

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>>134588357
>Your body does not equate with you.

What

>>134585428
I dont believe in god because I was not provided with any evidence yet. I have no clear definition of free will. To make up my mind I would need more information.

>>134588476
>If free will does not exist, responsibility is gone
Re-read my comment. I addressed the point specifically - it doesn't matter whether decision is conscious or not, its still you who made it. Unless you willing to prove that subconscious part of you is less you than conscious.
You don't need to have perfect control on every aspect of your being to bear responsibility for your actions. We dont sentence for decisions to commit crime, we sentence for crimes themselves. If its you who committed it, it doesn't matter whether decision was from a mythical free will, or you just "programmed" this way. You're still guilty because you did it.

>>134587683
Everything you use that was forged by math properties is not real world by definition of creation manifesting in the ImagiNation of others first. Every couch, tool, house, car etc... Is impossible without God first. Without God as defined by western calculus and astronomy we would have illiterate pagans and wild savages who are as likely to be able to solve 365×4+4 as they are walk on water. Still killing, raping, feasting, and sacrificing to dead gods of wood stone or metal. The Christian sign of Noah is one of Science. Namely we have faith that the sea level is rising as icecaps melt and the inexplicable river of red flows down in antarctica. symbolic of Egyptian Magis plight if you understand the metaphorical realm of today where Egypt culture is prevalent with morning star Sirius. I believe in the bible because its code reveals the wisdom of a fractal story timeloop. Where we will fall and shows us the way to rebuild society back into the golden era. Its literally the neverending story that dominates/converts/frees weaker minded slaves, topples arrogant egotist tyrants, and manages the actions of a humble proletariat middle class. The sectarian difference is noticable by how followers start a prayer. Dear God vs Our Heavenly Father vs In Jesus Name We Pray. Math rules the heavens by dictating time as measured by stars and not digital clocks. Any other opinion stating the contrary is false. A God of Math rules them all. How many sheckels in a Talent? How many moons in a year? How many constellations in a Zodiac. How long is a day. How does Pi in the sky relate to your wildest interpretation of God?

>>134588476
>>134589608
Also i assume you read Sam Harris book or listened to his podcasts. His argument only works against so called "absolute free will", it doesn't do anything to refute "practical free will".

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>>134585428
People who seriously believe in free will just clinge themselves on a thread because their ego and sense of being is so small, take their "free will" away and their world shatters.
It's like saying that everything you do is pre-written. Idiots will start thinking that no matter what they do, it won't really matter and they're not wrong but, why care and not just do because you want to? Why not just live? Be greater than any concept. Just be.

Why would a universe in which an omnipotent omniscient being does not exist lead to a lack of free will any more so than a universe that does stem from an omnipotent omniscient being? Logically any universe that is the product of such an all knowing all powerful God is incapable of having free will; is fundamentally impossible. An all knowng and all powerful God already knows exactly how every choice in every life, hell how every thought will develope in response to the rules of life both philosophical and natural rules of existence which shape those decisions both in how they are made and why they are made in the manner they are. The result of the choice is already pre determined before it has ever even been considered by the individual considering the action or thought they are considering. It is "the plan" and to imply that anyone is capable of choosing a decision that is outside of the predetermined plan is an impossibility. By definition every single decision you have made or will ever make was decided before you or even the planet itself ever existed. A single decision of virtually any significance made in defiance of the plan Inexorably alters this plan of the all knowing and all powerful. Either way God would have to be aware of how the choice plays out before it had ever even occurred that there is a choice to make. Does a universe in which God does not exist lead to freewill? I don't know, but a universe in which there is a God is absolutely deterministic by definition.

>>134585428
>>134586836
>>134587244
>>134587435
>>134587399
>>134587318
>>134587497
>>134587602
>>134587615
>>134587683
>>134588102
>>134588357
>>134588476
>>134588747
>>134588788
>>134588950
>>134589376
>>134589608
>>134589981
>>134590075
Will you go to Heaven when you die? Here’s a quick test: Have you ever lied, stolen, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said,
“Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
If you have done these things, God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart,
and the Bible warns that one day God will punish you in a terrible place called Hell.
But God is not willing that any should perish. Sinners broke God’s Law and Jesus paid their fine.
This means that God can legally dismiss their case:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Then Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death. Today, repent and trust Jesus, and God will give you eternal life as a free gift.
Then read the Bible daily and obey it. God will never fail you.

>>134590741
Will you go to Heaven when you die? Here’s a quick test: Have you ever lied, stolen, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said,
“Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
If you have done these things, God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart,
and the Bible warns that one day God will punish you in a terrible place called Hell.
But God is not willing that any should perish. Sinners broke God’s Law and Jesus paid their fine.
This means that God can legally dismiss their case:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Then Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death. Today, repent and trust Jesus, and God will give you eternal life as a free gift.
Then read the Bible daily and obey it. God will never fail you.

>>134590854
What has your post to do with anything I said ?

>>134585428
>So why do you believe in free will?
I dont.
In fact it is irrelevant what i believe, the world doesn't give a shit.

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>>134585428
>the logical standpoint is to assume it doesn't exist until proven wrong.
That is not the rational position, idiot. That is called an argument from ignorance. If there were no evidence either way, the rational position would be to remain agnostic.

>>134590913
The only "quick test" that can be performed is death. And the experiment is flawed in that you have to die to get any result from it, never mind being able to actually interpret what conclusions could be drawn from the data resulting from the experiment. Further I would argue it is not mercy to forgive actions that God itself is ultimately responsible for occurring. God already knows what sins I shall comit, and what beliefs I will hold It controls my hand just as much as it controls my mind. In either case the decision to believe or disbelieve was predetermined before my existence ever occurred. To either reward or punish me for either of those outcomes regardless of how they play out is ultimately pointless. The neurons within my brain that shape my thought process and determine how I will have to react to stimulus have been assigned prior to birth.

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>>134585428
A deterministic universe is the only type of universe where free will can actually exist.

Think of it this way: if you walked into work one morning and your boss was a hippo, would you have MORE free will? Certainly not.

In a deterministic universe, you can analyze the consequences of past decisions and use it to rationally decide on future ones. That's not possible in a non-deterministic universe.

So, does free will exist? Kind of. There are certainly hypothetical situations which would fare much worse for the prospects of having free will.

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>>134592903
>Think of it this way: if you walked into work one morning and your boss was a hippo, would you have MORE free will?

>>134591286
but the existence of an omnipotent all seeing god is a logical fallacy by itself

>>134585428
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose free will.

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>>134592903
>i cant understand the recursion: the post
If
Think of it as a function that is defined within itself. The fact you're aware of yourself doesn't change a thing.
>you can analyze the consequences of past decisions and use it to rationally decide on future ones.
Your external conditions are pre defined.
Your initial state is pre-defined
Your properties are defined
Your awareness is a part of equation.
So that what is rational for you to do is determined.

The fact that you might act irrationally because you don't want to think that you are determined is also determined.

>>134585428
Why does free will even matter?

The problem with you intellectuals is that you're assigning meaning to something that is as simple as presented.

>>134593751
This.

>>134593525
>but the existence of an omnipotent all seeing god is a logical fallacy by itself

Not if we're in a simulation and just stored in someones computer memory.

>>134585428
>So why do you believe in free will?
Because it does exist. I still can make my own decisions no matter what happens. Even if clearly illogical.

>>134593751
>Why does free will even matter?
how I answer that question is entirely dependent upon forces unrelated to the content or context of that question.

>>134585428
What I don't get is why we even experience being alive at all. Even your reasoning is the result of outside stimuli and is essentially just advanced instinct. We're just a chemical reaction that's snowballed over the years gaining complexity. So why even experience anything at all it doesn't make sense!

>>134588476
How can you prove determinism exists either? Just because you can't prove free will, doesn't mean you've proved determinism.

>>134585428

My problem with Free will is, that it even if we life in an deterministic universe, that does not mean i do not have free will. And even if i do not have free will, it changes absolutely nothing for me.

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>>134585428
What an interesting post, clearly you're not from this community...10 pts OP

>>134585428
Because of science and facts. Fucking christcuck

>>134594352
You still have a fucking brain even if you don't have free will, one that relates you actions to the content and contexts of questions among other things

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>>134586836
>Now it might just be an illusion and we might not have free will, but if we dont the whole debate is absolutely pointless when we cant decide if we believe it or not.
We also can't decide if there is a God or isn't, but that hasn't stopped you God-hating, fedora-sporting retards from forcibly imposing your deluded fucking smug opinion on everyone around you.
Here's an idea. If you're so sciency, admit there is no proof one way or the other and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

>>134598347
I don't remember doing any of that as an atheist and i'm pretty sure the rest of atheist just want to be left alone.

>>134598070
and this brain was produced by what mechanisms?

>>134587250
Thank you for put it out clearly

>>134598804
It doesn't matter that's the point, your brain sill suffices to accept reasons or reject them, understand context, whatever, that's what the brain does, deterministically or not. Determinism doesn't shut your brain off, it just does its work deterministically.

>>134600687
Brain is not your consciousness.
Brain is part of the game, you are the player.

>>134600687
>It doesn't matter that's the point
You seem to be taking your brain's capacity as a rational processor for granted.

If there is no reason to believe the process that produced your brain would necessarily yield a logical processor, there is no reason to assume your brain will suffice for an explanation of your reason.

Determinism might not shut your brain off - but there is no reason to believe it would produce your brain, nevermind a rational mind at all.

You're rational, but you're still wanting an explanation for that fact.

Atheist here

Science hasn't progressed to the point where we can prove or disprove free will. Until then it's just a matter of believing it exists, I have faith that it does.

>>134590741
I completely disagree. Just because someone or something already knows the outcome of an event doesn't mean it is predetermined. Having knowledge of an event does not mean that is it also the cause of an event.

Say I put a rock in front of you. You can pick it up, leave it alone, or whatever else you decide to do with it. Before you do anything, I hop in my time machine, go 5 seconds into the future, and see you kick the rock. Then I come back.
Just because I know that you are going to kick the rock, does that suddenly take away your choice of what to do with it? no.

You still choose, I just happen to know you choice already.

>>134585428
I don't? At least strong freewill. That things can be changed by random chance I accept. There might be some wiggle room for allowing weak freewill.