/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL - DAY OF THE REMOVAL EDITION

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>Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property | Lew Rockwell
https://mises.org/library/open-borders-are-assault-private-property
>Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal | Lew Rockwell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wZjdEl9F8
>Nations by Consent | Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/11_1_1_0.pdf
>Natural Order, the State, and the Immigration Problem | Hans-Hermann Hoppe
https://mises.org/system/tdf/16_1_5.pdf?file=1&type=document

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>Hurrr you can't physically remove communists for thought crime. you're just as bad as them!
>They're not hurting anyone, don't you belive in free speech!?

A society where a population threatens to "seize the means of production", starts riots, and destroys private property is NOT a libertarian society. They have to be removed.

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>Libertarianism is a tool of Zionism

STOP GLOBALISM.
ABOLISH CENTRAL BANKING.
END THE FED.
GAS THE STATE
NONE of this helps Zionist control. We challenge power more than any National Socialists think they do.


>"The Jewish Question" by Life Love and ANARCHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1jtKNs5q2o
>Documenting Anti-Semitism Within the Libertarian Movement:
https://chelm.freeyellow.com/libertarianproblem.html
Even our favored jews are blasted for being token jews, anti-semites and racists by jews in high places.

You can point out Rothbard (pbuh) was a jew, but you can find no link to zionism or bolshevism. I dare you to call the libertarian philosophy a tool of zionism. bring your evidence fag.

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ALL socialism is about dominating and subjugating the people. which brings me to my next point...

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Communists are aggressors by their own claim. Eliminating them is in defense of property and non-aggression.

On point

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>>134531293

Ron Paul for mustard gas 2020.

>>134536115

>Conservatism
>right to voluntarily discriminate
>free market economics with accompanying prosperity
>prompt physical removal of troublemakers
>Private communities with privately enforced standards
>social hierarchy

It astounds me that people actually reject this.

>>134537288
Try think libertarian principles mean we want you to reject your family and your Nation. They don't see it as letting the people determine local policy directly rather than being made to accept universal principles from the state. Also wassap my favorite fascist.

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>>134537528

'sup

>>134537528
They think*

>>134537528
This

You can be politically a libertarian and privately be a conservative. Because you don't want to impose rules on other, for example regarding drug use, does not mean you have to agree with drug usage.

Also we need to destroy these, "Select all images with <object> Click verify once there are none left", captcha's.

What libertarian merchandise do you fellas have?

>>134538072
I just payed the 4jew to bypass that shit. I can't be playing mini games while trying to shill my propaganda.

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>muh you can't remove peaceful communists for saying things you don't like.
>peaceful communists

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>Right wing populism | Murray Rothbard

>>134538622

"Peaceful communists" is an oxymoron. As is "peaceful liberals."

I've known many liberals, including those of my own family. Once you scratch the surface, you find there's only hatred and greed hiding deep.

>>134538208
Not much to be honest, I've got a big no step on snek flag. But that's it. I gotta lotta German and American WW2 stuff instead.

>>134531508
They've already violated the NAP by making threats to my private property.

>>134539387
Yeah I know a liberal close to home who pretty much Hates the world and see's "the only way to win is to be a victim" he's a hardcore militant atheist and it turns his perception into a deterministic nightmare and socialism and totalitarianism as a bright solution.

Centrist Libertarian here

I like you guys but you act like you'd let your fixation on rightwing ideology interfere with common sense, and you know you need to admit that sometimes in extremely rare scenarios the government is going to need to financially aid its citizens, like during a completely random natural disaster. or war on our soil. The only form of libertarianism that is pragmatic and real is Centrist libertarianism.
be realistic. Libertarianism makes sense but you need to realize that there's occasional scenarios where the government is going to need to aid its citizens a bit. Not saying things need to be more authoritarian, but economically centrist.

>>134540229
You aren't libertarian if you're centrist, the whole movement is capitalism and therefore economic right wing

Fuck off

>>134540229
Care to make an argument for "government needs to aid citizens", simply asserting it to be true doesn't make it so. sounds to me you're a liberal, not a libertarian.

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>>134540229
Fuck off commie

>>134540229

Again, no.

If you built your home in an area prone to natural disasters, why should people OUTSIDE of it who aren't affected by it support you? Use foresight, do your research and accept the consequences of your decision--you'll live or die by it.

As for war...there's a lot of material available online about how you could actually have a completely libertarian military.

>>134540431
>>134540538
>>134540598
Oh look, uneducated people who call themselves Libertarian but never read any of the political philosophies or doctrine of what it means or how it was derived, and why
I doubt you're even ring wing libertarians, probably just bored shitposters

>>134540904
Alright well your ideology would be less economically prosperous and would waste more lives in the longrun. have it your way.

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>>134540910
You're under the delusion than your positions hold enough water to merit refutation

>>134541003
>>134540910
>When the "libertarian" rejects property rights.
By what merits do you call yourself a libertarian? You are fine with the state forcing you to pay for fuck ups you had no hand in. You're not a libertarian, just a liberal who's fed up with sjw shit. What is your distorted idea of the libertarian doctrine?

What do people think of Michael Munger? Specifically his statement on destination libertarians vs directional libertarians?

Is there anything on the state level you'd think the libertarian party should represent?

>>134540904
>why should people OUTSIDE of it who aren't affected by it support you?
Well they could charge high prices during a catastrophe. More demand (due to an emergency) leads to higher prices which leads to producers doing all they can to get their product/service delivered in a catastrophe stricken area.

>>134542805
I don't know the guy but I assume your talking about "is it just to use "non libertarian" means to achieve a libertarian society?" My perception is that we are being aggressed upon and so such means would be warranted as self defense. The terms are a bit muddy. I'd have to be given some specifics before I could really say that to be true.

>>134543142
I highly recommend his talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUOPhLlU4dE

He has run as a libertarian on a state level. By "destination libertarian" he means the purest form of libertarianism (so 'the state is treading on me, I'll shoot it'), by "direction libertarianism" he means moving our current political system in the direction of libertarianism. Essentially pragmatism and knowing we aren't going to elect the next Pinochet so let's do the best we can with what we got.

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Reminder that agorists are communist enablers

>>134537288
>It astounds me that people actually reject this.
exactly that's why /lrg/ is our greatest ally.

>>134543771
I feel I could be doing both, I support pragmatic policy that puts us closer to libertopia, but at the same time, fuck the law. Don't abide by it if you won't be caught. Evade taxes and shoot some politicians if you can get away with it.

>>134541003
>waste lives
People that die because of their own stupidity deserve nothing

>>134544206
I feel to same way, the only illegal markets you can get into on a starter level are usually degenerate as fuck. But still, the jobs I do don't get reported to the state and I don't get taxed. If you could get a whole community to just not pay taxes on their businesses maybe you could get some succession going on.

>>134544288
What's this? Two fashy goys? Man you guys are alright. I thought you were the same guy.

>>134531293

Why do you link David Friedman when he's one of the open borders libertarians you Hoppeans hate?

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>>134544543
No I was in the last one, just passing by because I saw a thread so early.
maybe anons see that libertarianism the best way to raise society to a higher level.

>>134544711
Let them speak when they're right about the market, physically removed them when they shill for globalism. What's the problem?

>>134544984

Now you want to physically remove "globalists"? Do you really think you're fooling anybody calling yourself libertarian?

>>134544917
Yeah I recognized you by "greatest Ally".

Y'know for fascists you understand libertarianism better than most god awful snekflag posters on this board.

>>134545179
Why would property rights imply that I have to tolerate subversives who want to put in place a regime of open borders on my homeland. I have no obligation to do such a thing.

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>>134545306
Maybe because we come from the other side and learned about it from uncucked libertarians.
Also everyone on the right should read Hoppe he is very important to unite us.

>>134545445

You don't have the right to dictate who other people can associate with. Unless you can somehow get people in your "homeland" to unanimously ostracize "subversives", you're never gonna "physical remove" them without initiating violence against them.

>>134545363
Delete this.

>>134545701
Right, and so you don't get to force me to associate with open borders cucks. Opening of the central state puts all of our property at risk as long as there is public property. That in combination with the civil Rights act creates a situation where we are forced to integrate foreigners into our institutions.

Maybe read up on from the Orthodox AnCap position
See
>>134531358

>>134545683
True most non right winger get introduced via libertarian cuckoldry and later move up. Fascists aren't worried about normalfag issues and are able to dive into the real shit right away.

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>>134545363
DELET

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>>134547481
Yes, but on the other hand you have conservative right wingers, who heard all their life how
capitalism = exploitation = globalisation =open borders etc.
and they believe it, some of them are even willingly to cooperate with socialists as long as they are patriotic and against free markets.
But it is a good start that more people come into this threads here.

>>134548092
That shit is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around, conservative in my country means you embrace capitalism and nationalism.

Conservatives by you are practically NatSoc or some lite version?

>>134548391
>Conservatives by you are practically NatSoc or some lite version?
They are afraid of being called natsoc or nationalists, so they call themselves patriots, but when you talk with them you see everyone of them has socialist tendencies, I've never faced so much hate as when I talk property rights and free markets.
So in the end they are much closer to natsoc as they'd like to be, while some natsocs I know are more leaning to libertarians than actual being natsoc, it is a weird situation in europe.

>when u get rid of labor laws and work safe laws and plunge millions of people into poverty and on the job deaths skyrocket
>when to fight corpratism u lift regulations allowing even greater corprotism to form
>when u get rid of welfare and inadvertent murder and leave millions homeless and destitute
>when confronted with how these people will be taken care of u scream muh charity ignoring how charity is a fucking scam
who knows maybe one day when u are down and no one wants to help u maybe u will gyow up
but u are all bunch of edgelord teens who probably have never worked or are on welfare yourselves so.....

>>134549249
I hope for your sake that you are trolling

>>134548885
Yesterday I was trying to come up with arguments around a NatSoc perspective.

Is their fear of being called nationalists genuine or due to PC bullshit? I mean to say if you approached capitalism as a explicitly nationalist position would they fag out or identify with it?

>>134549408
im not
libertarianism like all other utopian idea are pipe dreams

disprove a single thing i said mate im happy to debate

>>134549249
You don't belong here. Real world experience and applying it to others is a sign of maturity and rational thought. Neither has a place on this board.

>>134549574
>I mean to say if you approached capitalism as a explicitly nationalist position would they fag out or identify with it?
depends, I can't really tell with many people if they are really afraid because of the government or if they are really against nationalism.

>>134549966
Okay, well what kind of "Patriot" rhetoric do they espouse? NatSoc stresses our people, our volk. But that might be too racist for them. Do they talk about muh county maybe? You gotta take whatever it is and show them how property rights can achieves those things .

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>>134549249
>when u get rid of labor laws and work safe laws and plunge millions of people into poverty and on the job deaths skyrocket
They would actually go down, because of advances in technology and the dismantling of bureaucracy would leave these jobs in the past. Even then, its your fault if you choose a dumb job. If you really care, why not start a safe hiring industry practices company and only offer as an agency, safe jobs? Because you don't, you're just projecting your fears.
>when to fight corpratism u lift regulations allowing even greater corprotism to form
Incorrect. Its easier to be a giant corporate umbrella today BECAUSE the amount of regulations and their ability to control the little guys. People want to buy locally and do good for their community.
>when u get rid of welfare and inadvertent murder and leave millions homeless and destitute
People on welfare were not meant to be alive anyway, nobody cares? No matter how harsh it sounds that is the truth. They are on welfare anyway because Federal Reserve policies. You're argument is garbage. Do you think a heroin addict deserves to live, because it feels good to keep being a heroin addict and getting off of it would suck for 1-2 weeks?
>when confronted with how these people will be taken care of u scream muh charity ignoring how charity is a fucking scam
"Charity is a scam". Great, if you think other charities are scamming, then you can open your own and give free vouchers and hand outs to those donating to those specific charities you think are a scam, of direct evidence they are scamming their donators. You won't do that though because once again you are projecting your apathy.

>>134537938

>not button slapping "physical removal"

>>134550728
>When you're hitting it from the back and she moans "taxation is the price we pay for civilization"
REMOVE.

>>134550381
Mostly on the right it goes with we are patriots we love the state we hate nazis, we want welfare and government jobs only for our people, we are proud to pay taxes because that is the prize we pay for living in a civilisised society, capitalism is to blame for immigration because big companies wants maximum profit thats why they lower the wages with immigrants, property rights, they agree with but it should be the task of the police to defend it, so no self justice and if your property hurt the feelings of other people it should also be banned.
oh and muslims are bad, that is the main rhetoric.

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"Libertarian" is code word for Aryan Brotherhood nazi, fuck y'all.

>>134549612
Personal responsibility is a beautiful thing, that is my response

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>>134551247
ALL nazis get punched, especially alt-right chanchumps

>>134550418
>hey would actually go down, because of advances in technology and the dismantling of bureaucracy would leave these jobs in the past
i agree on the tech bit but not on the bureaucrat bit
there is no reason to rip up our beuracratic establishment when its mainly working fine there is no good reason the gov should just la off millions of people who work in public services
>Incorrect
corpratism thrives in an unregulated enviroment thats why we dont just need the regs alread in place we need to EXPAND them
>People on welfare were not meant to be alive anyway, nobody cares
all people deserve a minimum standard of living no matter their class
the idea "the poor werent to live" is just an elitist opinion u hold
>Great, if you think other charities are scamming, then you can open your own and give free vouchers and hand outs to those donating to those specific charities you think are a scam, of direct evidence they are scamming their donators
i dont do it because i know it is a lost cause no single charitable group can help the disenfranchised of a nation must less the world only the gov has a true viable solution to helping reduce suffering thats wh i stand with the other working class agisnt u and your kind

i think it is worth to mention that the little utopia u imagine will NEVER exist because the working people are not on the same side as u and the people never will be

>>134551043
Jesus that's pretty rough.
That's full blown socialist, not just liberal crypto socialism. I said it yesterday but cucky feelgood libertarianism (like adam kikesh ) might be the way to go. He usually makes socialists feel like bad goys and has some aggressive debate tactics. I've seen that kike convince a real nationalist Texan to embrace open borders. Even if he's a cuck he makes strong arguments. That and you need to show "capitalism" as corporatism. I'll see if I can work at it but it's a tough sell to that mindset.

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>>134552654
>That's full blown socialist, not just liberal crypto socialism.
Yes, I think prussian socialism is to blame for this at least in the german parts of europe.
but it is all the same across europe there are no real right wing movements.
That's why I said yesterday, It is maybe easier to start with libertarians and make them conservatives as the other way around

>>134552654
I should add that these cuck libertarians (being communist likes themselves) are great at winning over socialists.
Peter Schiff is one such guy who can convert socialists easy. He went to occupy wallstreet and debated everyone there. Pretty much hit every possible argument.

It's definitely different with conservative socialists but it's what comes to mind.

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>>134551705
>corporatism thrives in an unregulated environment
Objectively incorrect, you clearly need a lesson in economics. Read Choice or Human Action

>>134553247
>Peter Schiff is one such guy who can convert socialists easy. He went to occupy wallstreet and debated everyone there.
saw that video, was great.
Everyone here is like the australian guy here
>>134551705
Only difference with left and right is you like immigration/muslims you are left, you don't like immigration/muslims you are right
there is no difference in their economic view, and nobody even cares about it.
there are small parties which go into economics also, but they don't have any chance to get anywhere, they even struggle to get enough supporters to attend the vote.

Why do you have Ron Paul in your image when he has been espousing tolerance and free exchange of ideas, the opposite of Hoppean pseudo-libertarians?

>>134553663
That's why we need better models i.e. Political compass

Left/right that the media uses is so shit

Ron Paul sounds real Hoppean here, huh?

>Just because you allow somebody to have a lifestyle you disapprove of doesn't mean you have to endorse it. A lot of people don't quite understand that. They think legalizing freedom of choice is an endorsement of what people do. And there's no reason in the world that this can't bring people together. If you have people on the left and people on the right and they want liberty for something over here, and somebody wants liberty for this over here… why shouldn't everybody come together for liberty to use it as they see fit?

>>134554208
Ron is a bit guilty of pandering to Democrats as an anti war guy. He may have inadvertantly started the leftist takeover of libertarianism but he himself is 100% edgy Paleolibertarian.

>>134554256
>Left/right that the media uses is so shit
yes, but alternative media and groups use it the same way.

>>134554760

Nope, not at all.

Again, Ron Paul:

>And yes, there are a lot of people out there living their lives in ways we might disagree with. But intolerance is what government is based on. The far left, they are very intolerant and are happy to have people with guns tell other people how to live. We need to keep in mind that if other people aren’t hurting us or using government to force their way of life on us, they should be left alone. Unlike the left, we want tolerance for other people’s morals and for how other people work for a living and what they choose to do with their money. We need more tolerance and humility in every aspect of life, and that’s how we get a free society.

Can someone please explain Hoppe to me? How would it differ from ancap?

>>134554352
Yeah, he does. I don't have the quote on me but Hoppe has stuff that sounds just like this.

>>134555177
I don't see the what you're getting at, this is basic bitch libertarian stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYwQxvFAIJY

Reagan says it the best.

>>134555232
Hoppe is an AnCap, but to us he represents the true Orthodoxy of libertarianism. Cultural conservatism, race realism. He pulls no punches and doesn't care what leftists think so he doesn't pander to them.

>>134555490

Do you read these Hoppean threads? Physical removal and tolerance are opposite values.

>>134555491

Reagan was not a libertarian at all.

>>134555667
Tolerance in Ron's terms means not using the state to crush them. He is not implying that we must be inclusive and tolerate those who's values threaten our own. They can have theirs and we can have ours. There's no contradiction of libertarian principles in either Hoppe or Ron. Maybe check Ron's work at Mises/lewrockwell. His Campaign rehtoric is dumbed down for the public who know nothing of libertarianism.

>>134555722
>The libertarian party has been infiltrated by conservatives
The post.

He goofed on a lot of shit but he's generally more libertarian than recent presidents.

Ron Paul is friends with lefties like Dennis Kucinich. Would you Hoppeans "physically remove" Ron Paul too since he wouldn't ostracize lefties in your society?

https://youtu.be/oJcnoDfFWhM?t=1m8s

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>>134531293
Ron Paul in the streets, Hoppe in the sheets.

>>134556413
He should have set up a sensible guest worker program instead of granting blanket amnesty tho, that just exacerbated the immigration situation.

>>134556774
I would be honored to have Ron visit my covenant. Seriously read Hoppe, he's considered one of the most clear thinkers in libertarian thought. You'll find nothing he advocates violates property rights or non aggression.

>>134555667
(Hoppean) physical removal isn't violative of anyone's rights.

>>134556987
Lol, hail Slovakia.

>>134556774
Dennis is a really good guy, he was one of the few politicians from central or northern Ohio who cared about the Appalachian part of the state.

Y'all fellas fuck with the Gadsden flag? Or just the yellow and black?

>>134557340
Both, but a lot of snekposters on /pol/ are retards and not /lrg/ approved.

>>134557340
A lot of Snekflaggers and AnCapflaggers on /pol/ are shills, so I stick to the good old geo-location option.
Then again, the shills use whatever means necessary.

>>134557083

You can already retreat into gated covenant communities in America as is. You're not physically removing anybody. In fact you guys just want to retreat into tiny homogenous bubbles.

>>134558188
> you guys just want to retreat into tiny homogenous bubbles.
And? Does that violate your "right" to suck dicks or something?

>>134558462

I don't mind at all. Go ahead and physically remove yourself from broader society. You're doing the world a favor. It's just funny that Hoppeans talk about "physically removing" people as if anybody would want to live in their covenant communities.

>>134558769
>Go ahead and physically remove yourself from broader society.
>implying you wouldn't force him via the state to fall back in line.

>>134558893

I'm an anarchist, anon. And not one of these fake anarchists in these threads who praise Pinochet and Reagan.

I'm a fan of the Gadsden serpent symbolism. I use it sometimes. Mostly for gun rights issues, where the symbolism is at its very best.

>>134558985
Please fuck off back to r/libertarian, the libertarian party, or /liberty/ or wherever your cucky faggot dipshit ass came from. Maybe read some of Hoppe's work and you can discuss property rights with the big kids.

>>134531293
Why do you call yourself "libertarians" when in reality you are liberals?

>>134559396
Because liberals in merica aren't the same as classical liberals in europe.

>>134559396
Liberals believe in a small state and equality of opportunity. We generally believe in neither of that bullshit.

>>134559258

Why read an irrelevant joke "philosopher? Why not read an actual PhD philosopher like Michael Huemer?

>>134559877
But Anon, Hoppe is a Ph.D philosopher.

>>134560359

Hoppe is an "economist".

>>134560598
(You) are a "shill".

>>134559785
In the real world, a small percentage of people will be very, very successful. How do you stop that 2% from using slave labor like they have throughout human history?

>Inb4 paying someone $5 a week in the third world isn't slavery

>>134551311
i think those are backwards, bud.

>>134561111
Paying someone for labor at a price they agreed to is not slavery by definition. Is this a thinly veiled "property is theft" meme?

>>134561601
What makes you think it's """voluntary""" in third world dictatorships? Honestly

What makes you think the people have any say in the toxic waste and pollution being pumped into their habitats?

>>134561978
These "third world dictatorships" are failed socialist states. Show me the free Enterprise third world shit hole, they don't exist.

>>134561978
>toxic waste and pollution being pumped into their habitats?
that would destroy their property, and so it is only justified if the people living there rise against the this, or just file a lawsuit.

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>>134561978
You're conflating the third world and an AnCap society to weasel around honest discourse. I'm not an ancap, but you are being ridiculous.

>>134531293
Can someone explain to me how water privatization would work? There is no production process so that price competition can happen through the investment into more efficient ways of production, as would be the case with energy for example. There is also hardly any differentiation in the product that is water, and I'm not just referring to drinking water, so competition can't arise through that. There also isn't, or can't ever really be, any revolutionary/drastically different/more efficient new way of transporting it to people's houses either. And to top it all of the initial capital investment required is huge.

Also, any attempts at privatizing water before have failed, meaning that they have lead to monopolies/decreased quality/increased prices. Though I haven't really looked into them to see whether that was the Government's fault somehow with perhaps the way they were privatized etc.

So if water is a market that tends towards a natural monopoly wouldn't it be best if it remained under government control, consider citizens can exert more influence to a boss that was the Government, as opposed to a private owner who holds a monopoly and whose services we can't live without?

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>>134551247

>>134562550
I don't agree that there's no room for improvement as to the way water is gathered, how its processed and how its transported. How did you come to that conclusion?

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>>134551247
>mfw antifa faggots break the NAP because they think libertarians are Nazis

What a wonderful day that will be...

>>134562977
>How did you come to that conclusion
By the fact that I either couldn't think of a better way that gathering/processing/transporting could be improved or there even being a need by the people for an improvement, therefore creating incentive for investments to be made in the grounds that there are complains/dissatisfaction with the current "performance" therefore demand for something better would exist for investors to make profit from satisfying. Keep in mind that the bigger initial capital invest is required, the more demand for it must exist to justify it.

Who builds the roads?

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>>134563738
>roads

Who needs 'em?

>>134563738
Probably the same private corporations that do so today.

>>134563949
Very good, but seriously this is where I lose faith in libertarianism.

Current forms of government are weak and corrupt but they still do a better job than the free market would on some things.

>>134562474
>You're conflating the third world and an AnCap society to weasel around honest discourse.
No I'm not
As a casual observer of your philosophy in action, all I see is rich cunts seeking out government subsidies. They actively went to the most corrupt and authoritarian countries to make their products. Then at home, they push for mass immigration and welfare giving them a subsidized global workforce while simultaneously de-industrializing the western world

>>134564113
Ok so who do they send the bill to if not the government?

>>134563702
If I find a cheaper way to process water I can undersell the competing producers, giving myself the market edge. how is there not going to be a market for cheaper water? Just because you haven't thought of how to do it doesn't mean it couldn't be thought of and engineered.

>>134563949
>>134564113
Why even reply?

>>134564216
They don't do it for a bill. They do it to divert traffic to their buildings and services. Customers are their bill today.

>>134564318
Because this thread needed a bump.

>>134564360
Roads are a massive capital investment, what type of business could afford to create a whole road to its shop and still make profits in a totally free market?

If you are suggesting many businesses may band together to build one how will they overcome the prisoners dilemma attached?

Why not just wait until the road is built and then build beside it?

>>134564637
Because if there's no room left for another building by the road you have to build more road.

>>134564637
Get yourself some dirt cheap dirt roads of you're so worried.

>>134564637
moot point the roads are already there
and its obvious how maintenance is a good capital investment and very profitable

>>134531293

If you define value as subjective, then how can you justify libertarianism to other people? Ie. What's in for me? Some of you might remember me.

>>134564866
New roads will need to be built as population expands, and your argument is dependent on the assets given by the previous system, seems quite fallacious.

None of you have answered the question, so I'll try a different example, a city's population has expanded rapidly and they decide they need a new bridge (loads of cities on rivers), how do they finance it, does a private company take it upon themselves to build the bridge and then charge a toll for every user?

>>134564145
I'm actually a minarchist. I make fun of Ancaps sometimes, even though I think they're the best of all the radical political ideologies.

>>134564318
bantz

Ancaps need to learn to lighten up a little.

>>134565274
Given I'm offering the most standard counter argument to libertarianism perhaps someone can save time and stick up a copy pasta to see how they defend against this.

I've seen Molymeme try defend it on Joe Rogan and he was terrible desu, just admitted he had no idea.

>>134565274
They get recreationally nuked you pussylib.
In all seriousness people either buy or make what they need in Capitalism. The point of Capitalism is to address needs.

Does anyone have that pic of the snake wrapped around a Fash (axe made out of faggots)

>>134565381
Minarchism I can understand to a degree, Irish politicians are pure cancer and don't deserve a quarter of the wage and pension they receive (nevermind brown envelopes/bribes)

The EU is almost worse, one our failed politicians got a gig there, worked for 5 years and then got a 400k a year pension for his 'service'.

Disgusts me incompetence is rewarded to such a degree.

>>134565533
So you have no fucking argument.

Christ at least the people who advocate for left wing tripe can actually attempt to defend their beliefs.

Reminder to not fall for d&c leftards and newfag shitposting. hoppean libertarians are our allies in the fight against leftism

>>134566115
>So you have no fucking argument.
If overpopulation causes a problem, people it affects will build more bridges. What's so hard to understand?

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How to achieve a libertarian society:

1. Get a young traditional wife
>
2. Get a fine job
>
3. Make tons of babies
>
4. Teach them young to be great people and to despise socialism and degeneracy (both feed on each other)
>
5. Teach them to make more babies and to teach them the same thing
>
6. Keep this family tradition, in addition to others that you should create, invest in your house, make it bigger, buy land, make ornaments in tribute to your family, and pass this on to your descendants
>
7. Privately educate your kids. Send them to good, elite, schools where they can fulfill their quest for knowledge and make great contacts.
>
8. Vote, support parties/think tanks/people that want to reduce govt and degeneracy.
>
9. Become a central point in your community's affairs. Know the local Father, the politicians, your neighbors, your kids' friends' parents, and so on. Invest a lot into local change.
Godspeed.

>>134565906
This is the problem with bureaucracy; terribly inefficient and overpriced. This is why I like the idea of the free market so much, but there are some vital functions that some form of state has to do. Everything beyond those few, vital functions should not be something the government does.

I actually like the way the U.S. was originally set up, but it's become to bloated with power creep since that it's become largely impotent.

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i'm for libertarian fascism, but unironically. the state needs to exist only for protecting the society and stamping out leftist elements from degrading the libertarian social order

>>134566115
God you're dense. If there's a need people it affects will work to fix it and people it doesn't will charge to fix it themselves in a Capitalist society. Do you even understand market demand?

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>>134565549

>>134566237
Ayo wassap that one other Portuguese guy.

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>>134567103
sup my man

>>134566211
They will yeah eventually build a road, but not the people as a whole but rather a private company will build the bridge.

So we'll continue with this, the bridges are built and therefore owned by private companies. A billionaire could come along and purchase all the bridges in a city then charge tolls beyond the value of the bridges as he has a monopoly on transport across the river.

You'll say, oh the people will be pissed and they'll build a new bridge then but here it all unravels, already there is waste beyond what would have occured in the presence of a government, and as soon as a company steps in to build the bridge the billionaire will cut the price and funding for the new bridge with collapse as it isn't really needed.

The monopolist bankrupted his competition and can continue extracting economic rents from the people.

Why do libertarians hate roads?

>>134567440
Roads lead to communism.

Libertarianism is based on a weak understanding of economics. The market isn't a god and doesn't solve all problems.

Governments are bloated and corrupt today but removing them completely is even worse.

Minarchism is the best you guys can argue for.

Foreigners are our friends. If you are against immigration, you are not a libertarian and you don't understand economics.

https://youtu.be/uXMnAPGY1uE

>>134566347
>libertarian fascism
>We can have a free society so long as the government meddles in the lives of it's citizens to the point where no one will deviate at all anymore

Actually just fascism. This libertarian fascism meme really should stop.

>>134567636
libertarianism =/= anarchocapitalism

Minarchists ARE libertarians.

>>134568054
Ok fair enough, but some libertarians call for a complete removal of government and taxation, but both serve a purpose in an ideal world if not the purpose they serve today.

>>134531293
>Reminder that this is the Libertarian RIGHT General
Explain the libertarian right to me? Are you in favour of giant corporations and bumping of those who are no longer of any use to those corporations?

What is the "right" in the libertarian right?
Nationalism?
Social conservatism?
What?

>>134568190
Yeah, sorry to nitpick, but I feel it's best not to muddle definitions. I don't think ancaps deserve to have the entire libertarian label.

>>134567636
Under libertarian conditions capital firms become defacto governments. That solves your stupid "it doesnt work" problem.

We get governments with formal power run competently.

Best part is that capital has next to zero incrntive to NOT exterminate niggers and muslims.

The only incrntive to let then live derives from "humane" vote based incentives.

The problem with libertarianism is that they dont take themselves seriously enough

A capital firm would have incentive to kill niggers in FOREIGN COUNTRIES and to eliminate even trace dna from extant populations

Please find me a more perfect system.

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>>134566833
If we're posting AnFash flags, here's a good one.

>>134568268
I would say the Orthodoxy of /lrg/ is Paleolibertarianism, compete removal of the state apparatus will lead to communities becoming reliant on each other, lending itself to socially conservative values. Libertarian nationalism is a part of it too.

>>134568628
What's a capital firm?

Venture capital?

>>134568721

What are "conservative values"?

>>134568865
Thats just a phrase to refer to any firm eith vested or accumulated capital. Some capital firms might be composed entirely of holdings and equity, and not even operate factories

None of them have any interest in letting niggers live. Holdings are maximized b the ratio of high iq individuals in ALL countries.

Singapore would have a financial interest in genociding uganda in search of growth, without any racial supremacist or ideological pressure (those ideologies would be created by the financial incentive)

This is ancap, essentially, in commonly understood language. Its he endpoint of libertarian thinking in the dame way communism is the endpoint of socialism.

Lubertarians just dont go far enough. Like someone who believes evolution stopped woth monkeys and doesnt apply to human races.

Theyre not completely stupid. Theyre less stupid than everyone else, but of course still stupider than woke channers.

>>134569218
Standard shit you'll see among other social conservatives. family values, race realism, anti homosexually "alternate lifestyles" ect.

>>134569595

Why would those values thrive in anarchism?

>>134568711
i kinda like this, how would it work though? buy like a thousand acres of land, only let high iq whites in and sign a contract upon entry or something that says you're willing to do x hours of community service or some shit? idk

>>134569819
Not anarchism. Anarchism believes in the inherent goodness of man and believes in NO formal power

Libertarianism places formal negotiation power in the hands of market forces, and thereby families and individual holdings.

Family values thrive in this environment because they sre self sustaining. This barely needs explaining. If you dont have a family in ybe woods, you die. If you dont have a family in a market system, you starve. Period.

Chinese without families starved 100% of the time in the premodern era.

>>134569819
Without the welfare state to support you you'll be economically reliant on your family and immediate community. We see socialism and state intervention as the driving force of social disintegration and moral degeneration.

>>134570146
>Anarchism believes in the inherent goodness of man

[Citation needed]

>>134570117
Not familiar with these guys but it would almost certainly start with a group of investors as well as a molitary class. Buy land from the government, protect it with guns and miniaturixed nukes as well as a parallel currency and self sufficient market.

Boom. Singapore.

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>>134567941
libertarianism by itself is unsustainable. most people are not libertarians and will try to revert the social order back to a nanny state when they are given the freedom to do so. libertarian's are in this regard their worst enemies. libertarian fascism is a pragmatic solution

>>134570356
Lee is pretty based.

>>134570237
>strawmanning intensifies
Look man if youre gonna post like that youre not making me dumber, youre making yourself dumber.

Anarchism is not even remotely close to libertarianism or ancap deapite the name.

>>134570146

No, families usually aren't self-sustaining. Families usually can't grow their own food, build their own homes, provide their own health care, etc. Markets let you not be self-sufficient. You can exchange things away to people for things you need. Why would you need a family to survive? There won't be orphanages and foster care of some kind in a libertarian society? Without child labor laws, why couldn't children find employment to support themselves?

>>134570496
His family is succumbing to dynastic politics atm actually.

But thats the beautiful part. Failure breeds death. If we have a thousand singapores it doesnt matter if one fails. The survivors will learn from the mistake or suffer the penalty of death, leaving only smart people.

>>134570463
Ok, but that's not libertarianism. IT's JUST fascism.

>>134570739
Fucking read the definition of moral hazard before you enter these discussions

The fuck is wrong with your head

In a society made of nuclear familues every family must make proper decisions to remain solvent or they will die.

This produces thebsurvival of the smart, and the death of idiots. The locus of survivalvis the nuclear family.

Youre welcome

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>>134531293

>>134570739
You are just the cuckiest counter culture lolberg ain't ya?

>>134571192
Smokes. Let's go, hand em over.

>>134571027

Family isn't the only type of group that increases the survival rate and well-being of its members. There are all sorts of ways a group of individuals can arrange themselves for their mutual well-being.

>>134570534
idk how thats a strawman but alright. i'm just saying that anarchy as a philosophy isn't inherently against any forms of order, its just against forms or structures that force people to involuntarily participate in that form or structure (and not only that alone, those systems then can more easily commit atrocities and keep them low key - like pedophile rings in masonic police rings we have today). i have no problem with communism if everyone there is there by contract and voluntary means, same for fascism, same for minarchism. whatever.

i'm just saying anarchy exists as a state of MAN, not society. OBVIOUSLY there has to be some sort of system that we're all in, but whether we're there by threats of violence or voluntary means is the issue. that state of being is the ability to leave that society without being killed or hunted down or experiencing a loss in living standards.

if you're going to say anarchy is against something, its the violation of the natural law rights of other beings with flesh and blood like you and i, and thus believing NOT in the goodness of man, because if an anarchist did, then we'd have no problem with a state.

>>134571761
That is true, however you are born into a family and that family will be your default safety net. Any hippy commune you have planned will never be the standard.

post comfy physical removal music

>>134572876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMBrLyznkJo

>>134571761
You are being deliberately stupid or obtuse.


The family is the basic unit for organizing assets and property in a way that leads to sustainable value and returns

Joint stock companies are the only larger structures with enduring incentives. Any other economic formation falls apart in less than 20 years, every single time, because they cannot align incentives with production, and punish failure in a decentralized manner

In a government th man with the gun decides who eats. In families and joint stock companies, intelligence decides who eats

Now unfuck your head

>>134572876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ

>>134571826
Without a market or authoritarian system, the man with the lareat gang and beat axes decides the order by RAPING YOUR DAUGHTER

Youre an idiot if you think ending markets solves the problem of coercion

Markets are the least coercive kf institutions. Anyone complaining about it has something to gain, perhaps by raping your daughter, or is a naive idiot

>>134573038
has molymeme made a "Why I was wrong about physical removal" yet?

>>134572876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMskjKZ4r4E

>>134572876

Nobody wants to live in Hoppean white supremacist covenant communities. You guys wouldn't be physically removing anybody.

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>>134573828
If nobody of you degenerates wants to live in our communities, there is no need for physical removal.
Nature will remove you from earth itself.

So free markets work if there's competition. But what about things for which there is no competition? For example, the electrical grid, the sewer system, the water supply, the roads...etc. Competition doesn't exactly work in a natural monopoly

>>134566833
>>134568711
Beautiful, thanks

>>134570117
It's basically hoppean philosophy. Libertarianism is assumed by normies to be "just do whatever dude, I don't care". They don't forcibly remove those who would make the libertarian society possible. Remember, it's libertarian so people still pay taxes, just very little, government also has to compete with private companies so that the quality of the government services stay competitive and high. Government (in my perfect society) would be a "private" entity that mediate issues between people in a town going from police to muh roads and city planning. The government's sole responsibility is to protect its constituents so if war comes (which is unlikely thanks to non-interventionism) the people can voluntarily support their government for war, or whatever private defense contractor. Since they both want to protect the same people and land they will both cooperate in the war efforts.

>>134573997
the only one of these which might be a 'natural' monopoly is the electrical grid, but even that is changing fast

>>134573968

The "socially conservative" regions of the country are the biggest recipients of government transfer payments, dude. We wouldn't be the ones dying off.

>>134574157
in a hoppean world people would live in voluntary convenant gated communities, so if people didn't follow the community's rules and guidelines and kept trying to subvert it and destroy it's hability to sustain a free society, they'd be kicked out according to the rules of the place, which they accepted when they moved there.

There would be no government, he's full-ancap, you'd have private justice and stuff, and the very people in the community would kick bums, degenerates and parasites out

>>134573828
Good.

>>134574158
No. All of those are natural monopolies. Most towns only have 1 water source, 1 water purification plant, 1 interconnected system of pipes.

Most places only have 1 major road leading in and out (and that's a good thing, imagine if there were 5 competing roadways between every single town, the scenery would be fucked)

There is realistically only going to be 1 sewer system, and 1 sewage treatment plant.

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>>134574312
I am not even american.

>>134574312
By "socially conservative regions" do you mean the
South where all the blacks live in the highest concentration?

>>134570935
Fascism is too totalitarian
>Le good first dictator dies
>new dictator comes in
>REEEEEEEEEEE THATS DEGENERATE!
>no freedumbs
>no guns because only a degenerate would need to protect itself (Inb4 but Hitler let the Germans have guns)

>Le good dictator dies
>new dictator comes in
>he's a money grabbing kike
>the party assassinates him a la Caesar
>government continues it's increasingly destabilizing tumble to collapse thanks to dictators and psychopaths trying to gain more and more power

>>134574641
fascism doesn't have to be a dictatorship

>>134574393
>a gated community ruled by a "constitution" or set of rules that dictate the acceptable behavior of its inhabitants
>not a government
You can put a bow on it if you want but it's still a government, my dude.

>>134574778
What is governance by consent of the people?

>>134574768
Oh, Hol up. Iz u sayin facsim can be libertarian. Wtf? I love libertarian fascism now.

>>134574847
so to measure this consent, we need to have voting correct?

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>>134574847
>governance
>govern
>government
I don't know. You tell me.

>>134574919
have you ever read "Starship Troopers"? that's a pretty good example of a democratic fascist system.

Only those who sign up for the military and successfully complete a term of military service are eligible to vote

>>134574946
No, the non consenting just leave.

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>>134574778
I am not a libertarian, but I would have no problem if the land you live in is privately owned by a duke, the church or Red Bull for example.
The problem with modern states, especially democratic ones are that they live on robbed money and they aren't the owner of the land, it is just tyranny when a government funded by you can dictate what and what you can'T do on your property.

>>134574946
No. You agree to participate in a homeowners association by investing money and your livelihood.

You will only invest your livelihood in a place that will be reasonably fair, punish criminals, protect the innocent, etc.

If you choose poorly FUCK YOU. BE SMART.

No voting necessary. People suffer the consequences of theirbown choices and they CHOOSE the conditions they want to live in while having ZERO SAY about what others do.

EXACTLY LIKE A CONTRACT.

>>134575167
so doesn't that mean that every government on earth is libertarian? Since if you don't like it, you can just leave

You are giving the government your consent simply by staying

>>134575240
but wouldn't I want to choose a place where I can vote on local policy?

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>>134575182
That sounds very libertarian to me. Sounds like Democracy by Hoppe except he points out that monarchies were historical examples of aristocracy and the natural elite.

>>134575299
>You are giving the government your consent simply by staying
as stupid as your argument is, this would really help, imagine everyone who pays taxes would jsut leave, leaving government with its welfare whores alone, it would just crumble or go full communism and close it's boarders so no one can get out anymore.

>>134575605
But remember, in a world where all property is privately owned, you can only move to where you're invited.

If you want to leave the US, you need to have another government agree to take you

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>>134575045
I fucking love starship troopers. Shit got me through army training multiple times
>Tfw not in the mobile infantry

This would not be so bad until we run out of people to kill and drive the military industrial complex. Once we run out of aliens or Muslims we will collapse into petty land grabs or anything to keep industry pumping out parts and driving the economy. Basically what's happening today. I'm a machinist and half the contracts in my factory are government, military aerospace or things that go into other things for government contracts.

I picture a libertarian fascist government able to mold to what is necessary at the moment, it could be a hoppean anarchy with little government taxation or transform itself into a gigantic, unstoppable war machine if necessary. But honestly, I would have no problem living in either one. Having something worthy of dyeing for is priceless, if a Democratic fascist society happens, as long as what I'm fighting for is worthy, I'll die for it.

>>134575445
If you believe voting systems improve quality of life, yes.

People move to singapore, not to the philippines. So that should tell you which system produces better results.

White and north asian people NEVER choose to move to democracies. They ALWAYS move to places with less democracy

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>>134575579
Hoppe is great.
and since we have no nobles or aristocracy anymore, ancapistan is the best way to get back to an aristocracy, because they have to earn their status through work and smart choices, they will become natural authorities in the end.
PS: why does burkas count as dress in the captcha?

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>>134575767
Think about this, what purpose is there to life if there are no enemies to fight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcjEKt-l0IM

Peace sucks. If we run out of enemies, we'll split society in two and fight with each other.

>>134575182
This robbed fake money (debt) only happens when the government allows it. Bubbles happen naturally, but they pop early once people realize the size of it. People saw the bubble of 08 coming in 99 and everyone ignored it because the government kept allowing (forced sometimes) the banks to give out whatever loans they wanted to whoever they wanted. If there were no nanny state to catch you, would you loan Jamaal with a - 500 credit score take out a 350,000 loan on a Bentley with 23" rims?

>>134575718
>If you want to leave the US, you need to have another government agree to take you
I know, but this also negates your argument that staying is consenting.

>>134574470
you're taking it for granted that these things need to be done in a central place instead of being distributed

people could sell energy via generators, or have larger plants competing maybe not for each individual customer, but for groups of customers or even cities

roads are the easiest to deal with, and many were privately built for many years, especially in the US, same for railroads

you just need to build another road there and charge less for it's use, or more realistically provide alternative mediums of transportation, after all railroads, boats and roads can compete with one another to provide transportation, since that's what's offered, not just a piece of land where you can drive. Cities would likely just build roads by themselves (as cooperatives or joint ventures between citizens) and people would compete to manage them.

Waste does not need to be centrally dealt and work with pipes and sewers. IIRC some parts of the world, where there is no proper traditional sewage, people deal with it like they deal with trash, collecting it in every home and disposing of it with cars.

People can have septic tanks where they throw their sewer, or even more efficient and better onsite sewage facilities (OSSF) and companies can just collect the waste tehre and throw it away after they're full. I think this is how people who live in trailer-park cities do it, after all their trailers are not connected to a sewer system.

Same is true for water. Even in some third world countries people are allowed to build water wells and sell whatever they don't use. During most of my life we couldn't just drink tapwater or filter water that came from pipes like they do in the US, so we bought our own water in big recipients, 20L each. You just have to buy one or two and they can last a month.

>>134576363

Same can be done for bathing water, but in larger quanitties. You can collect whatever you can from the rain, have wells connected to your home (after treating it properly, which can be done in your own home) or buy water (and store it yourself, in proper tanks, to last a while) from water-trucks that regularly go to certain places. That's how people do it in some dry areas, with no natural rivers and shit. You could buy it to your own home or together with neighbors, in a communal source of water.

Electricity is still harder to produce like this, but it could easily be done using technology like photovoltaic plates and batteries, or, on a more promising way: I dunno if you're aware, but there are already bilateral energy grids, where not only can you receive energy, but send it back. Currently most countries only allow people to sell excess energy (that they produce with generators, photovoltaically, etc) back to their provider, but in the future could be changed to a system where several enterprising people produce their own energy at home, and sell whatever they don't need (or just produced to sell) to other people in the same grid. In this case at most the grid operator would have to work as a market place, more like a stock market where people buy and sell energy than a company which sells energy.

Not all of these options were always available, although some were, but as time goes on this will only become more and more common.

>>134575981
Work is slavery
Ancap is greay because it mandates caste and authority

People dont need to work to prove they are better. They ARE better and thus have the status and money to do the work that will improve society

A permanent caste divide (exceptbfor talented individuals) is what thebinduatrial revolution was built on

I dont want to have to compete alongside idiots by reading one fish 2 fish in high school. I am better. Let me do what i need to do and stpp wasting my time

>>134574778
Not at all. I didn't even mention a constitution, only rules.

I lived with my parents for several years, and followed their rules, but this wasn't a government, it didn't steal money from me or had the power to kill me, or even the monopoly of force.

I didn't mention any parliament, mayor or anything like this, for example, with power over others.

I'm not even ancap but you're not up to date with what they're proposing at all.

A government has power over me whether I like it or not, it can use force against me I can't use against it, and can rule over me without my consent.

This isn't the case in a covenant community, which could be as small as two persons, by the way.

The only problem with covenant communities, as with many other things in libertarianism, arises when we think about children.

>>134576474
didn't mean manual labour by work.
and don't take me wrong I don't think a real leader can work his way from bottom to top, he should legitimized by godly descent, or at least his ancestry.
But is the best way to raise our society to the level where it is worth to be ruled.

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>>134576032
Absolutely agree. But what do we fight for? Do we not fight to maintain a peaceful land for families? We funded isis to kill them. Why make fake enemies? Wouldn't it be better to create space fairing vessels and then allow ourselves to become our own enemies, striving for better ships, better tech etc. It's what happened during the space race in the cold war, if it weren't for "peaceful" war competition we would not have made it to the moon.

I want Trump to find one of those random meteorites full of gold or random minerals that are valued at 25 trillion dollars and just say "believe me, the age of space pacifism is over. We will acquire NA-5219 and we will bring it over to the United States to build a better America, a better infrastructure and a better society. So true, we need it, believe me. Starting today at 5:00 Am NASA will start construction on our magnificent space elevator, we will build a moon base by the time my administration is over and it will all be under budget and ahead of schedule."

That would rile the fuck out of the whole planet. China, India, France, the UK, Russia would all piss their pants and start a gigantic space race once more.

>>134575445
why would it have "policy" at all? most things deemed to be "policy" are completely irrelevant or do not need government meddling at all.

If people wanted a democracy, they could have it, and kick out undemocratic people, but if people didn't want it (and historically, democracy is not the norm, and is not even what people value the most either, that being stability and wealth), they wouldn't have it (see Singapore, an authoritarian state in all but name).

>>134576883
I think we need war. We are bred for war, over the aeons. That feeling of your blood boiling as you charge the enemy is what real living is all about. It gives our lives purpose, and makes us all strive to be better. It's beautiful.

If you love a young man, give him a battle to fight. One where he might die, but with great rewards waiting. The society we have right now is desperate for war. We've been peaceful for too long. The deadwood is piling up in our city streets and our welfare halls. It would be a great cleansing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m4IZw4l0G4

>>134576851
No. We create our ideal society by killing filth

Asking thebgreat to "work their way out" of a shitty society is like a progressive tax on prosocial and nonpsychipathic behavior.

Upper castes do not "endure" the slaves. They should kill the slaves and harness them as capital assets.

Working geniuses to deathbin office jobs is racial suicide

>>134575981
the natural state of mankind is patriarchal and aristocratic

democracy like we have today is the exception

whenever society collapses, the new ones that grow in it's place will be far more traditional than similar to the progressive weirdness that we have today, even if they do have some democracy, they'll have influential families and people who work as a natural elite

>>134577336
speaking of war, what would happen if muslims in germany kill some american soldiers there?

>>134576840
What the fuck is a constitution if not a set of rules.
>but it's for government stating what it can and can't do.
OK, but then who enforces these rules? What stops your democratically elected body of rules from being exploited by mob rule? What happens when your gated community becomes a city thanks to huge innovation and money generation. What happens when a retarded idea takes over the land and they all make churches illegal for example. Hey, 63% agreed to remove churches so it must be fine. This gated community is just as fallible as any institution, including private or public to corruption, or at least dishonest behavior.

>a Gov't has power over me whether I like it or not
Let's say a bunch of soccer moms in your gated community organize and make cigarettes illegal. It was a rule legally reached by concensus of 60%+, most people don't smoke so they don't care about your rights and muh air quality. Now you can't smoke cigs
>B-but they're degenerate
Where does it stop?

>>134577417
>Asking thebgreat to "work their way out"
that's not what I've said, I said we commoners have to raise our society so it is worth the aristocracy.
>>134577440
the natural state of mankind is patriarchal and aristocratic
agree

>>134577336
We do need war. But we need to also survive it. This planet isn't big enough for war anymore. One single dirty bomb, not even a nuke. One single computer error (see the film failsafe (2000 edition is good, absolutely awesome film)) and the whole globe is out. Say France is being invaded again, oh no, they're about to lose, let's nuke the planet, we're going to lose anyways, there is no more MAD. We NEED to get the fuck out of this rock ASAP before we blow ourselves sky high.

I completely agree with your statement of needing war. This will never end and there is some sort of poetic beauty to war, but both sides need to survive it. Even when Rome conquered it's enemies they didn't assassinate every single last citizen of the defeated land, we didn't do the same to the Indians, none of the European nations did this during their medieval wars. Mass Ethnic cleansing is too easy thanks to nukes.

TL;DR
muh nukes, we need to leave the planet, now.

The real problems with ancapistan, I think, are these:
1. The External Threat
2. The Effect of Children

To explain 1: If the entire world wasn't ancap, you could always have the (mostly small) ancap communities being crushed or oppresed by outside powers. We see in history how hard is to small countries and people's to survive. The ones that do are always either protected by geography (something less relevant every day), too irrelevant for anyone to bother (no natural wealth, non-strategic position, no military threat, too expensive to justify taking it for the small benefits gained, etc) or provide a benefit to larger powers (like being a tax haven where corrupt leaders wash the money they steal from their people before they spend it on their whores).
A singel Mohammad-like figure could take out at least half of ancapistan, if they failed to organize proper defenses, and we know it's hard to organize several different polities to act together against a more unified and powerful agressor. The non-muslim tribes got BTFO and conquered, and even the greeks and italians eventually were unified in a country either by force or necessity.

The second problem, 2: Even if every adult that moves into a covenant community agrees to it's rules, how do we deal with his children? Do we let the parents bind their children to certain rules, as the ones responsible for them? Do we just let them stay while they are children and kick them out if they refuse to accept the rules after they grow up?
How do we prevent children from being subverted and not kicked out? Most parents wouldn't want to send their kids out, and if enough kids join some retarded movement (see the 60s for example, or today), do you kick all of them out, or do you let your community just die of old age?

>>134577336
Also, I like this one better. Weaboo music is too gay.
https://youtu.be/7XmDYJBZZdc

This could work too
https://youtu.be/L_XDHRPvdEQ

>>134577561
Nothing.
C'mon dude. Get creative
>what happens if 5 armed Muslims with AKs, bullet proof vests and 6 mags each plan a siege on one of the many bases in Germany
Now THAT'S a fucking trigger if I've ever seen one. Trump would probably carpet bomb the whole place if more than 10 die.

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>>134578235
Or we could accept life in the wasteland. It might not even be so bad

>>134578585
And what about those who say they agree with the rules, but do not, and do not pass the values necessary for the community's survival to their own children? After enough time passes, you'll have a large mass of fifth-columnists ready to destroy your community from the inside out.

That's why I think ancapistan would eventually fall, mostly, and be only a temporary stage of human civilization.

>>134577759
If everyone agrees with it, the people in a place, or someone hired by them (which answers to them, not the other way around) can do it.
Do gated communities and buildings not kick out unruly tenants? Are they a government? Is a landlord like a president?

>a bunch of soccer moms in your gated community organize and make cigarettes illegal.
How? It doesn't matter what the consensus is. They can only do it if the contract I signed to live there says they can do it, if not they can get fucked.
You're still thinking in terms of government without even trying to understand the situation. There is not necessarily a legislative, executive and judicial branch, or a bunch of dumb laws or regulations.
If women in Chyna decide to ban something, can they do it? No.
Neither could they in a covenant community where this wasn't agreed upon, and they would largely not try to do so, given that they decided to live in a place where this is allowed.

If they want to live in a smoke-less place, that's their prerogative, but the rules would have to state that, and the people who lived there would have to consent to it.

How are they gonna do this in a place where people are self-selected and against it, where they do not have the monopoly of force?

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>>134578585
Good post.

>>134578235
We need war moreso because military aristocracies force truthfulness in bureaucracies from the very bottom to the very top

Ancient China was a bureaucracy and it invented social justice and obtuse regulations and multiculturalism

Europe and japan were military aristocracies and created efficient government, elimated corruption, lean institutions, truthfulness, and in the case of whites modern science.

It has nothing to do with the spirit of ear. That is just the origin myth for idiot plebs.

>>134578867
I don't think 5 armed muslim can siege an us base, but what if the muslims get shot by the US soldiers instead and merkel police raids the base because of hate crimes and they seize american rifles, so no more muzzies get harmed.

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>>134578698
Everyone knows Rising is best metal gear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fl27wKaGFw

>>134579130
I love this guy, I'm reading his book right now.

Most based world leader

>>134578585
Vectored diseases that target genomes eill make that all moot. The only real threat to global stability via nukes are israel india and pakistan.

Just create a disease that kills them and ancapistan can thrive.

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>>134579052
:)
The US would be completely and absolutely uninhabitable for the next millennia. No crops, no drinkable water and that's just places like Kentucky or Nebraska that get minimal nukes. The only habitable places left would be Africa, papau new guinea and Brazil (the Amazon, the cities would probably be gone too)

I wish nukes washed away like they do in fall out. Why fight a war where the only death you get to witness is your own preceded by a bright flash.

>>134579284
Rising was unironically the best metal gear after 2

Rising goes full technocommeecialist singularity

Its actually some pretty heavy stuff. People are just too dumb to see through it. The same people that hated rising hated 2.

Even 4 had good stuff in it. You could just tell kojima was saying fuck you to the people who disliked 2.

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>>134579177
Even the attempt, let's say they can't even get past the gate. Just the attempt would be enough to tell Germany and the EU that enough is enough and just remove all the kebab out of Europe.

>>134579657
Let's all pray for a happening, imagine how all those brave lefties will shit their pants when merica threatens to step in when they don't stop the muslim problem.

>>134579342
How do you prevent a man appearing, getting a fuck ton of followers, building his forces and conquering other places though? I'm not sure decentralized, private forces would be enough to do so, especially if the guy is operating in a place where he has power (say, another country, outside ancapistan).

I'm still reading the ancap book on defense tho, but I'm not finding it convincing.

I think that people in Ancapistan would only wake up to Mohammad conquering other cities when it gets too late

>>134579477
most nuclear war predictions have bascially the entire northern hemisphere BTFO and everywhere else safe (no reason to nuke argentina, brazil, nigeria, etc)

But the amazon is an awful place to live, filled with killer insects, diseases, hard to move (not even horses, too dense), hard to build (need to keep cutting trees down), hard to navigate (without good equipment, that is), soil unfit for agriculture, etc

See this for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

There's a reason no one lives in these places.

>>134579096
>everyone agrees
OK, hold on. Describe me all the laws of your gated community. I actually want to understand your point of view.
How does a "no littering" ordinance get passed? How would it be enforced? Who enforces it?

Please answer these.

>>134531293
I want authoritarianism to use the power of the state to crush the commies

>>134579163
Elaborate further on your China vs the West idea works. How exactly does a military driven government/society eliminate corruption? Can't smith & wesson pay off a general to run for Congress for example? Would this not drive the general to prefer Smith & wesson M16 contracts over Colt?

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>>134579905
>I think that people in Ancapistan would only wake up to Mohammad conquering other cities when it gets too late
Yes, I think it would be like in europe when the muslims came, you had many small state and city states, but they all got together after time, but battlefields move much faster today, so you can't negotiate 2 months what to do when they come.

>>134579284
Muh nanomachines
Only good games make great memes.

>>134579905
Force of personality cannot accumulate or properly allocate capital. Zealots tend to be the stupidest and least productive individuals

It would be like assembling an army of nigerians with machetes to assault the pentagon

>>134579905
I'd rather live in the Amazon than in a nuked shithole. But I see your point. Obviously if Sao Paulo isn't nuked it'd be better to live there. You get to remove favelas too!

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>>134579830
Plz God make this happen.

>>134580253
It goes deeper than that

Societies with military aristocracies over iterated "games" settle on the optimal strategy which is everyone tells the truth, if you lie, you are executed, and you dont pass lying genes to thr next generation

Failure in a military campaign leads to catastrphic loss kf capital. When mere lies can wipe out 50 years of capital gains, you have a strong incentive at every level tk kill liars and promote success

Ancient china was very similar to an ancient version of the eu. Everyone in china was "equal" and so they used political correctness to cover up failures of minority groups.

Bureaucraciesbhave multiple faolure points so fingers et pointed and even a dictator spreads out blame inappropriately as a negotiated solution.

Military heirarchies have singular and easily identifiable points of failure. Failure can eb punished and the organization can improve. There are no interest groups ot 'laws' to follow.

It is not china vs the west. It is hina vs the west and japan, very clearly illustrated

>>134580256
This. What happened in Spain and Italy (interbreeding between muds and Mediterranean whites) would not happen today. News of the village 50 miles away getting invaded would take weeks to get to your village and by then it will be too late. Now the news would take minute and everyone could be ready to defend or even create an offensive. At most a quarter the women would be raped instead of all of them.

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>>134580576
kill them all and their commie government, but in reality no one of those antifags and degenerates there will fight, they will just clap and surrender and tell you how great america is, don't let them fool you.
but the muslims will fight you so you can have a war anyway.

>>134580935
>a society mortally dependent on truth and integrity
I like this. And like you said, these are things inherent in the military. You lie about a simple thing as where you parked the humvee and you get utterly BTFO. What you described is basically Pax Romana Rome before the circus, currency manipulation and degeneracy.

>even a dictator spreads blame
This is a thing that Naziboos won't accept. Hitler was infallible and he dindu nuffin.

Fix your grammar, nigger

>>134579939
These are voluntary communities. People don't go live there if they disagree with their principles, and those who do agree explicitly to them. If they disagree, they're removed.

You're failing to understand these people are self-selected.

You don't get raging feminists in Lancaster passing laws to force amish women to wear pants and be bulldykes, because the people who'd want this dont go live there, and the minority that does is kicked out.

Could work in several different ways, like in an actual gated community, with it's own rules.

If the amish create a private community and have as a rule "no fancy clothes", and will only accept as members those who accept those rules, why would you expect a large number of people to be able to change this?

And why would they need legislation on this? It could just be agreed when moving in that this is a rule, a culturally enforced rule, by private and civil institutions (it's perfectly legal to be a divorced translesbian in Lancaster, for example, but it's shunned upon by society, and people who'd want to live like this 1. wouldn't want to live there 2. are told to leave).

And why would they necessarily need an "ordinance"? You're still thinking in terms of state legislation and shit.

Think more along the lines of tenants and property, an association of proprietors and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property.

Or think about forums and online communities, which create their own rules which people need to accept in order to participate. I can't claim a forum is a state for kicking me out after violating their rules that I accepted myself. Now compare this to the chinese government just banning sites and letting no one participate, whether they like it or not. Or a church excommunicating heretics.

>>134581005
But the thing is muslims can also move quicker and overrun you and in the case of ancapistan you must have an army already prepared for fast response, there will be no time to negotiate with other property owners who joins the fight and who takes part in which operation.
Here we have voluntarily organized firefightes on the countryside, this could be a possible system for fast response units for ancapistan.

>>134581862
One example would be moving to the woods with friends, and everyone agreeing to abide by certain principles (let's say you're all muslims, so: no drinking, no faggotry, no trannyism, no showing your face if you're awoman). You also agree that anyone who deviates from the purposes of this community will be kicked out, and the terms of his kicking out (if he needs a majority of people to agree with it, if anyone can kick him out, if he needs to pay something or take his shit with him, etc). If one of your friends decides that he might look like a Mohammad, but he's actually a Fatima, and won't even use a burka, he would obviously be kicked out for breaking the rules he himself agreed to follow, and since everyone in that community agreed to follow these rules, I doubt there would be much of an outcry against it, or any chance he gets to force others to accept his change.

If they get someone to manage things, create new rules (and how they are created), terms of kicking people out, terms of what they can and cannot doo, etc, this would all need to be in the initial contract, just like a company's charter establishes all these things for it's associates (what they can and cannot do, when it can dissolve, who can be kicked out, if there's a vote and how, etc).

If you choose poorly, well, that's your problem.

See a brief description of what Hoppe meant here, to see how such a world would operate:
http://www.stephankinsella.com/2010/05/hoppe-on-covenant-communities/

I posted what I think are some problems above, but this isn't the same as a governemnt

Can you please go fuck these people up?

>>134576786
>>134576786

>>134581201
No, I actually believe they will fight but not honestly. Soros will pay them off as he did in the Ukraine. They will start seeing their friends dyeing and one of two things will happen. They will see shit has officially hit the fan, harden up and actually fight or they will run and cower like the cucks they are. I'm betting on #2.

I hope I get deployed to Berlin.

>>134580370
It worked just fine for several groups in the past.

Do you think the Cartels wouldn't be able to fuck some mexican ancap-cities with their own cartel-run dystopias?

It's one thing saying they just can't do it, but they did to it several times in the past.

And in this scenario there is no pentagon, unless it's somehow private (otherwise it isn't ancapistan)

Even worse, the pentagon could be the cult. See the Taiping Rebellion for example. One lil nigga who thought he was Jesus' brother managed to defeat the Qing and have his own empire for a decade. How much more success could he have in ancapistan?

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>>134574312
we're talking about individuals, not "regions" aka twisting the data until it seems conservatives are the biggest welfare recipients

>>134582104
I was having this discussion with a friend when the antifags chimped out at the g20, I said if the police or a shopowner just shot one of those kids dead they would just run scared, but in teh case they would kill a muslim they would start to actively join the fight and with more than just stones.
I think the only germans who will actually fight will be the bundeswehr which may just surrenders because after all the humiliation the merkelgov did to them I don't think their generals are willing to send their men to war for a shitty government which treated them like shit.
and the other group of germans will be patriots who loves everything about their current system, except the mass immigration.

>>134582253
cartels are strongest in places with stringent gun laws
the taiping rebellion was so long ago that it was still in the age of offensive>defensive
but today, after numerous red team blue team exercises, things are radically different

>>134582253
Mexicans are fucking stupid

No, i dont think nigger or abo scientist ancaps would atand a chance against machete butchers

I also want everyone who is mot white or northern asian to dir or be slowly phasedbout

I dont gove a fuck if ancap works for niggers. It works for us. Just like acience works FOR US. Thats all tht matters

Taiping is different because it was a proto socialist movement coming out of a low iq province rebelling against a bloated bureaucracy in the age of sharp sticks

I dont think stock marketsbwould have worked back then either but not because stock markets are unworkable

>>134581862
>people don't go live there if they disagree with their principles
Very well, but don't societies change? What you're talking about is a voluntary miniarchy. Correct? What if rules change and due to the degeneracy ordinance that prevent you from doing things in your private property inside the community you no longer can do X? Do you just accept it? I don't like this. I don't like others telling me what to do or not to do, but like you said. It's voluntary so I can leave if I'm not willing to obey (Oy vey, sure sounds a lot like anarchy here, right goy?)

>the people who want this don't go there/are not allowed there
This would easily fix my problem accepting your ideal community (how do other ideas enter the community and force it to implement new regulations) the problem here is that the Internet would allow for degeneracy or strange ideas to enter the community (nihilism or atheism for example)

>why would they need an ordinance
How do you state cultural norms and customs? You can't just think them up every time you have to talk about it, it's gotta be on paper. What if the Amish from Abraham St only like Brown colonial clothing while those in main St only allow those wearing black (I know, stupid analogy but it's a quick example) disagreements could arise and Balkanise the community over petty norms (see the Christian Church during the protestant revolution). Like the other anon stated when we were talking about war, people love to fight over shit, specially petty shit. If an agreement is reached over what the culture of the community is then things will be much less abrasive. If we didn't have a constitution in the US where it said we get to keep guns and that guns are an inherent part of American life we would have lost them loooooong ago.

OK we need an agreement on paper. Who gets to decide what goes in and where
...
You guessed it, in "government office"
I've been to very very small towns, towns of 500 people and they don't get much

1/2

>>134583817
>>134581862
2/2
You guessed it, in a "government office"
I've been to very very small towns, towns of 500 people and they don't get much government assistance whatsoever, yet they still have their voluntary town halls where they talk and discuss their issues. If there were no federal government, if we entered a civil war tomorrow that town would not find out about it at all and not even care because of how self sustainable is thanks to how they all agree and regulate their civil issues. This is what government was supposed to be. Tiny and efficient.

>>134581862
I didn't want to pelt you with a gigantic wall of text but this is an interesting conversation, thanks for being part of it.

>>134582946
>>134583407
In an ancap world cartels could be barbarians with their won fiefs, I'm not thinking here of a group of drugdealers inside a community fucking it up, but of savage thugs forming their own communities with authoritarian rule and violence, just as they did several times through history, and ending up with an army large enough to conquer some other more peaceful communities.

In the long run we might just end up seeing what we saw in the past, some thugs taking control of more and more land, and peopel managing to get concessions out of their ancestors with time, ending up with some sort of constitutional government.

It'd be a second chance, of course, but I'm not sure why history wouldn't jus repeat itself.

Free states would need to constantly fight for their survivor and win several battles, while thugs just need to win one to take control.

And in this scenario you wouldn't even have the Qing, just a bunch of (mainly small) communities vs a large army of crazy peasants. They might fall in the end (like the Taiping did since their policies were retarded), but they could still do a lot of damage.

Same could happen in several places. Cartels were jut an example. There's nothing stopping the Italian mafia from having it's own expansionist state, or neighboring muslim states from fucking with their ancap neighbors.

How do you see covenant communities protecting themselves from external aggression?

>>134581997
How are rules enforced by the people rather than the government not governance. Rules are still enforced. People gotta get paid to remove the scum that won't leave. If you have a nigger tenant that's selling drugs out of your apartment you don't kick him out yourself, you call the cops. If you have a shitty, unruly neighbor being a tranny you don't go yourself to kick him out, you're a taxi driver (for example), you don't know how to fight or shoot guns. You gotta call the exterminator. And if 99.99% of the community obeys the rules there will be no sustainable way to make an extermination company whose sole purpose is to remove gays or whatever.

>>134581870
That's exactly why I don't like Ancapistan®, I like a fascist libertarian society that can inpose taxes immediately when necessary. Some of you here might get triggered at the thought but look at Americans in 1939, no one wanted anything to do with war at all, yet the day after pearl Harbor every man, woman and child wanted blood. (yes I know it was a "false flag"). If the same thing where to happen in Fascist Ancapistan the government could flex immediately, take over/cooperate with private defense contractors and deal with the issue. The insane demand for defense ordnance would make factories switch from commercial to defense manufacture immediately. This has to be an inherent part of the society. For example Israel, every man and woman(I disagree with this one, but ok) has to go through some army training once they turn 18.

I want a society sort of like Chile with pinochet. Pinochet removed commie and resigned. Same with that Roman Emperor who stepped down twice after the degeneracy was dealt with. Same as how George Washington stepped down. After the war is decisively won the government must step down. In my opinion we should have kept marching east after Germany was defeated, completely destroy Russia and then return home once the threat has been eliminated. It's like that general (I'm really bad with names) who adviced to nuke all commie countries (China Russia etc) right after the Japanese bombs were dropped. We were the only country with the tech at the time. We could have prevented the cold war and Vietnam, probably even the middle east bullshit we have now (Russia funded proxies to fuck with us during 70s-90s)

>>134583817
Again, if rules change, they change withing the bounds the contract you signed allowed them to change, and you can't complaim.

You don't get to move into a jewish state, sign their jewish laws and them go around larping as Odin, you need to exercise common sense.

Yes, if you live in a place where you explicitly accept they can create rules forcing you to change the way you live, tough luck. Nobody forced you to join that city.

If people in a community had disagreements, they'd either have to live with this difference, or if the terms they accepted gave power over other people to impose new rules, leave.

You're still inside thinking very inside the government's box.

Covenant communities have contracts, not constitutions.

If I decide I want to change the way a company is organized, and I don't have the power to do so under the terms which I agreed to follow, then I either fuck off or just deal with it.

If people want to have a town hall, OK, but everyone who lives there has to first agree with these rules and waht the townhall can do, while if you live in a community whose contract includes no townhall and doesn't let peopel impose new rules, and if they want to do so, them fuck them.

If me and my neighbors decide we want to ban red curtains, but the other neighbors in the other floors don't want to do so, what happens, nowadays? First we check what the contract says, and if someone get's frustrated for not being able to change something like he wants, then boohoo, should have gone to another community.

You'd have a very hard time moving to an amish covenant community, voluntarely signing the community's contracts and accepting the framework under which it operates and then trying to make shit up as you go and trying to change it by yourself, especially when eveyrone there was self-selected and went there because they like the rules.

>>134585434
There's no live-and-let live and "alternative lifestyles must be tolerated" bullshit in a world where private property-based communities are the rules. This is liberal kukery that can only exist with a big government forcing everyone to accept bullshit and giving everyone the power over others.

If people want they can create their homo community where non-gay sex is mandatory, that's their problem, but likewise normal people can create normal communities.

If people change their opinion with time, they can change the terms of their contracts (following what's set in that contract iself), and if they can't change it and force their opinions on others, they can just leave.

This is the origin of the physical removal meme. If I and fellow-minded people create a community to protect our private property and our lifestyle, and someone does not want to follow our rules, he isn't allowed in. And if he VOLUNTARELY signs up to live according to these rules, and them breaks them, he will be physically removed.

>>134582666
That would be grounds for a coup. A military coup. Man, like Alex Jones says. "what a time to be alive"