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The issue with MGTOW vs natsoc is actually quite fundamental. The only difference is a single frame of mind when starting off. Change that, and your natural conclusions go from MGTOW to natsoc or vice versa.
That one variable is hedonism. What is more important, your own personal minmaxing of pain and pleasure, or the continued existence of your people, your obligation to your people, etc. Obviously, we all side with the latter. But if someone still holds onto that fundamental presupposition that the only goal in life is to maximize personal pleasure and minimize personal pain, then MGTOW becomes a logical conclusion.
So to solve the MGTOW problem, THIS is the point that needs to be addressed. Not "virgin shaming" or any of that dumb shit. You need to convince these guys that continuing our own races existence is important, and that just saying "I don't care what happens after I die" is the wrong attitude to have.
Of course, it always ends up being EXTREMELY HARD to convince people that fully embrace this hedonistic, nihilistic POV. But again, that is the point that needs to be argued.
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>>134386793
I am considering a life of celibacy. I have no desire to engage in extramarital sex as it is sinful.
You say find a white wife and have kids. But the odds of finding a nonslut and having a successful marriage in this day and age is so slim, why bother?
I don't want to cuck myself with some roastie who's had 50 dicks in her, or 15, or 5, or even 1.
Look at the chart. Statistically speaking, basically every woman in America is not a virgin at marriage.
Have you ever considered the idea that our race is dying because we've earned our destruction?
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>>134387399
You aren't considering shit, you are forced to a life in celibacy because you are most likely a disgusting creep. That's why you shill for christianity because you are "better" than all the degenerates who finds love.
Now I'm not saying dating culture is fucking aids if you feel like nigger-fallaciyng, everybody knows that. But this damn excusing behind the cover of muh gospels is outright pathetic.
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>>134386793
Loving you
Isn't the right thing to do
How can I ever change things that I feel?
If I could
Baby I'd give you my world
How can I
When you won't take it from me?
You can go your own way
Go your own way
You can call it another lonely day
You can go your own way
Go your own way
Tell me why
Everything turned around
Packing up
Shacking up's all you wanna do
If I could
Baby I'd give you my world
Open up
Everything's waiting for you
You can go your own way
Go your own way
You can call it another lonely day
You can go your own way
Go your own way
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>>134386793
>your own personal minmaxing of pain and pleasure, or the continued existence of your people, your obligation to your people, etc.
The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Artificial wombs, for instance, will make it possible to reproduce without having to deal with a parasitic cunt.
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>>134386793
In EVERY MGTOW thread you get the same discourse:
1) Inexperienced but horny kiddos think every guy just want to fuck anything that moves and the entirety of social interaction revolves around fucking and MGTOWs are fat autistic virgin neckbeards who can't get laid.
2) Actual MGTOWs who are experienced grown men who are warning about the dangers of women + the state vs you, and how you can be easily taken for all you've got.
3) The "Yes, thats right goy - dont reproduce" jew shills - yes JEW SHILLS. The thing (((they))) want you to do is YES reproduce children to a raving tinder psycho / bar slut who will NEVER grow up and you will be raising her as well as your kids until she bails on you and takes half your shit after dragging you through divorce court.
The jew agenda is NOT to stop whites reproducing, its to produce a WEAKER generation with poor parents so the state can become the new parents. No reproduction means no goy-cows for milking. Why the fuck would (((they))) not want a new generation of tax-slaves? (((They))) own the banking system AND the law courts / judicial process.
(((The agenda))) is all about making money from broken individuals from broken families - NOT stopping reproducing.
MGTOW is redpilled because its men refusing to get fucked over by the jew system - and (((they))) are worried. (((They))) are worried that (((they))) have pushed the feminist "high maintainance woman" meme too far and thought men would become pussyfied slaves to nagging bitches and never thought men would just go their own way.
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>>134386793
If MGTOW means not reproducing, doesn't that mean that MGTOW is a form of eugenics? Remember that women are always the limiting factor of reproduction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSqrbdM8XjI
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>>134389244
This. So damn much.
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>>134386793
good post
the issue is that weztern society simply doesn't look like something worth saving right now. men have to be convinced first that it can be saved and second that it's worth the effort. a politcal shift towards nationalism and ethnocentrism has to happen before their primal instincts will kick in and consider this 'their people' and take any interest in preserving them.
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>>134386793
I'll go with
>your own personal minmaxing of pain and pleasure
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>>134388678
Thanks for the shame, that really worked out.
Face it, until women are put to place like before they were given the right to vote, nothing is going to change and things are only going to get worse. It will also help the birth rate grow if they don't pursue a career or an academic degree.
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>>134389244
Holy shit you nailed it.
>Be hambeast feminist
>Get gender studies degree
>Unable sell your degree as an asset unless you work in family court
>Make your entire living based on destroying familes
>Drag the court proceedings as long as possible to milk every last shekel
>Men stop marrying
>Make common law equivalent to marriage because you gotta profit goys
>Men stop co-habitating
>Now there is small chatter about them trying to make boyfriend/girlfriend relationships equivalent to marriage.
Every gender studies major, every social studies degree major, every social worker, every daycare worker, every child protective services agent, benefit from broken families like vampires sucking the life force out of humans.
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>>134386793
Another tradcuck: sacrifice yourself goy... as society spits on you for being a man.
How am I supposed to do that Mr sheklestein with the rise of (((diversity))). How am I supposed to "man up" when you import immigrants over inexperienced workers in engineering/tech and hire women to fill diversity quotas. Do you know how much women make the workplace a living hell? It is like working with children.
A man in the west right now is worth less than a fingernail, a tool to be used and discarded. My neighbour divorce cucked 2 of her ex-husbands and she is already filthy rich.
A girl I know just left her husband because she was "bored", her mom encourages her to go after the husband's inheritance that he received during the marriage. The mother is already filthy rich.
Women can't be trusted, even if they are good, society will corrupt them as with my last example.
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