IQ really is a /pol/ participation trophy.

A certain canadian psychologist would disagree strongly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0

>>134371915
You are saying things that are not true, are you aware of this? I don't have a high iq so it doesn't have anything to do with my own desire for status. Iq has an enormous amount of evidence for being predictive of many outcomes, and also for being mostly inheritable.

The things you are saying are only repeated by journalists, the people who study it agree unanimously. They are just shunned for the obvious political reasons.

>>134373966
Peterson is not a psychologist. He is a political ideologue, who used to live off the Cold War, and reemerged in the modern ideological clash.

Also, I'd prefer text, and I'd prefer proofs as to what is contested.

>>134371915

>abandoned in professional fields

No, I'm pretty sure you're just legally not allowed to use iq tests in hiring decisions

IQ WASN'T """ABANDONED""" IN THE PROFESSIONAL SPHERE LEGISLATION WAS PUT IN PLACE TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL

FUCK OFF NIGGER FAGGOT

>>134374397
Private enterprise doesn't use IQ whatsoever. It has zero market value - and it is safe to conclude it has zero scientific or utilitarian value.

There were tests that showed that it was social status that influenced IQ: adopted children that grew together in a similar conditions as the native ones did well.

>>134374776

Because it would discriminate against niggers.

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>>134374898
>adopted children that grew together in a similar conditions as the native ones did well.

Wrong.

>>134371915
>Correlates with upbringing, experience and education, rather than natural intellect.

No, much research indicates that it's about 50/50 nature/nurture.

>>134374898
twin studies are conducive to genetic predisposition or lack thereof, not whether or not iq is a valid metric of intelligence idiot.

IQ does have a market value because those with higher iq are better at problem solving and pattern recognition. things a business should have the right to select for

>>134374776
>>134374905
>>134374865
Definitely not in Russia, and I highly doubt it is even true for America.
All the companies that I worked for did a bunch of performance tests, not to mention asking for diploma and certificates - and hired mostly based on that. Those tests, however, emulated the practical tasks, and, unlike IQ, are a direct measure of how good your skill and intellect is for the job.

>>134375214
congratulations on doing menial labor where intelligence isnt a factor

and it is in fact illegal in the states, you could google that instead of speculating

IQ doesn't follow preferred narrative - IQ abandoned
Formal tests don't match preferred narrative - SAT and ACT abandoned

>>134374898
The twin studies show the opposite of that. As do all the studies that are blatantly trying to deny the effect.

Look it is not a nice thing to think about, the implications are not happy for social harmony, but you are refusing to consider that you may be wrong.

>>134375456
That arent*

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Absolutely wrong.
IQ is highly correlated to personal and group success (to a higer degree in how well you do in school, and to a less extent to income)

>>134371915
Have you seen Africa?

>>134371915
>Useless and abandoned in any professional or business fields.
False
>Correlates with upbringing, experience and education, rather than natural intellect.
And false

some great posts in this thread

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validity of iq:http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/the-validity-of-iq/

heritability of iq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

>>134375927
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
That link shows persicely what I was claiming: IQ variability is majorly influenced by enviromental effect rather than genetic.
>validity of iq
I'm not saying that IQ is completely invalid. I'm claiming that it is obsolete both in science and in business.

More importantly, IQ means nothing for a person if he has nothing to show for it, which is the main point concerning /pol/.

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>>134371915

OP is a a retarded sack of shit.

IQ tests are EVERYWHERE. Colleges use them (called SAT or other aptitude and entrance tests), the military uses them (ASVAB, Officer-level tests, etc), even the fucking NFL uses them (Wonderlic).

My IQ is 126, 96th percentile, by a real proctored 90 minute full scale evaluation (pic related). The ASVAB placed me 94th percentile. The Mensa online practice test rated me 126 at 95th percentile, and 4 other online test rated me at 126 or 125. Online IQ tests are VERY accurate if you find the right ones.

And despite OP's ignorance, I is THE SINGLE MOST well-researched and rigorously validated metric in all of psychology.

>>134377120
>That link shows persicely what I was claiming: IQ variability is majorly influenced by enviromental effect rather than genetic.

t. IQ fail

>>134377120
I would like you to genuinely consider what you're saying. You say that iq is not entirely valid but it is "obsolete". What does this mean anon? It means that you know it has some truth to it though you want to deny the genetic part, but you recognize that people don't use it anymore.
Why would people not use something that has truth to it? What are the implications of that? "Obsolete" is here a political term, is it not?

And I agree with you that it is only really useful for populations, with an individual the relevance of iq is swallowed by the many other factors about him. However- a 90 iq person will never be a successful physicist. You can expand this to all the various relevant consequences.

>>134377474
Here you go, faggot, just one line from the intro
>Recent studies suggest that family and parenting characteristics are not significant contributors to variation in IQ scores; however, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects.

>>134377694
Not entirely invalid*

What I don't get about IQ tests is, couldn't you study for them, and wouldn't that completely alter the outcome? For instance if there's two people of comparable intelligence and one has taken numerous tests and knows exactly what sort of problem solving and pattern identification they need to practice for, they would perform much better than the other person who's never seen an IQ test and goes in completely blind.

>>134377407

Also exceptionally correlative to success and inversely related to crime rate, what a god damn coincidence.

>>134371915
t. nigger

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>>134377407
>The Mensa online practice test rated me 126 at 95th percentile, and 4 other online test rated me at 126 or 125. Online IQ tests are VERY accurate if you find the right ones.
Wait so my score isn't just a meme?

>>134377694
one point though,
while there are a lot of IQ pills floating around,
/pol/ seems to have slipped badly on the big 5
needs some autistic attention

>>134371915
Uh-oh, we have an angry brainlet here guys

>>134374548
No, he's a literal clinical psychologist.

>>134377803
t. IQ fail

>>134371915

>Useless and abandoned in any professional or business fields.
>Correlates with upbringing, experience and education, rather than natural intellect.
Both untrue. The only major criticism (besides IQ being significantly reduced in cases of early malnutrition, which just means Africa is even more fucked than it would be normally) of valid IQ tests is that they have slight biases in presentation. Its difficult to adjust the tests for people who do not understand western numerical signs, and especially difficult to administer the test to those who are illiterate. There are ways to compensate for this, however, and they have shown surprising aptitude among brazilian street kids for counting, as one example.

>>Most modern IQ measurement cites are scams that basically make their clients feel good for several bucks, pretty similar to buy_a_star, or buy_some_land_on_the_moon type internet sites.
This is true though. Anyone who doesn't get the test administered in person by an official authority is getting scammed. MENSA is a good place to go to, since they pay for a license of one of the officially recognized IQ exams. (that doesn't compensate for MENSA being a bunch of fucking faggots, but if you want a valid IQ result they're the best on hand usually)

>>134377858
I don't see why you would get meaningfully better by studying. It's a pattern recognition test; not a memorization one.

>>134377694
> What does this mean anon?
That, for all practical purposes, there are tests that allow better evaluation of people's aptitude of a particular task. If you want to find out how good mathematician a person is, you will provide him with a series of mathematical problems. It will tell you precisely how good he is in that field.
If you want to hire a person, you will also give him related tests and observe him in a work-like environment.


In terms of science, there are more in-depth tests that measure individual attributes of intellect, like different types of memory.

Not really higher iq is positively correlated with better life outcomes in pretty much everything, hell in the case of lifespan it isnt even just that iq gives compounding benefits throughout your life through better info or access to higher quality healthcare, there's physiological difference

>>134378500
no, not studying but training.
should get you some extra points indeed, especially if speed is under consideration. probably meaningless on group level.

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>>134371915
>Useless and abandoned in any professional or business fields
no d8b8, m8

>>134378298
If it is harder for non-westerners, why do Asians with their moonrunes score the best?

Truth is that only real, non-scam IQ tests are completely without numbers (or letters) only symbols which have no cultural dependency.

>>134378551
Most of the bigger, more picky employers have their own sets of tests which measure, at least partly, IQ as well.

If IQ is fake for the Ivan, I'm sure he wouldn't mind his kid having IQ of a 75. It doesn't mean anything, right. Small potato will be literally the same as a neighbours kid with IQ of 130. Right?

>>134378097
What do you mean?
>>134378551
I agree with you there. Iq is not the best metric for any given scenario. But it is just about the closest metric we have for the general intelligence of a population, where intelligence is defined as success in various desirable outcomes.

It is mostly just measuring pattern recognition ability so of course it can't predict everything . But there is substantial evidence that pattern recognition is the very purpose of the neocortex so it is a very important element.

>>134371915
>Modern psychology uses much more elaborate system that measures certain attributes of intellect directly and separately.
Oh yeah like what?
Do these new elaborate systems show anything /pol/ thinks about intelligence is wrong like blacks actually being as smart as asians or do we just have to start saying g instead of IQ?

>>134378500

You can train to be better at IQ tests. Its not memorization or anything like that, more like doing the same baseball throw or shooting a basket the same way over and over to get better at that specific type of movement. The brain is trainable in a similar way.

Western kids are "trained" to think at school in the same way that IQ tests are designed to test for.

Some SJW types would say that discredits its cross cultural usefulness. They're retarded, but that's the first argument against them you usually come up against.

>>134371915

I do not believe your russian. I would bet HUGE that you sir are a fucking jew. I too think IQ is pointless, but I know I'm a dirty jew and not some American swine; running goy of my blood line.

>>134379280
>more like doing the same baseball throw or shooting a basket the same way over and over to get better at that specific type of movement. The brain is trainable in a similar way.
But can you actually prove this? If we assume different random tests taken every time, will people get meaningfully better or will the Gaussian just shift a little to the right?

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>>134374898
>adopted children that grew together in a similar conditions as the native ones did well.

Guess again.

>>134374776
Absolutely false. Go apply to Monsanto or DuPont or any advanced biotech company online. You will take an iq test..

>>134379159
there is a second equally important but mor complex predictor, called the big 5 personality traits.
Basically also a PCA result, but 5D's are retained.
These should have group differences also, but i haven't seen any good marterial on it. Don't know if it exist though, might be highly politically incorrect.
Don't have time to do research about it atm.

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>this whole thread

>>134379280
>Western kids are "trained" to think at school in the same way that IQ tests are designed to test for.
you wish
t. blast from the past

>>134379659
They sorta are.

>The Supreme Court ruled that under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, if such tests disparately impact ethnic minority groups, businesses must demonstrate that such tests are "reasonably related" to the job for which the test is required.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.
Since we know that IQ tests will "disparately impact" nonwhites and nonasians, the burden is on the business to prove that the test is "reasonably related" to the job. For plenty of highly technical jobs, this isn't a big deal to show, but there's a ton of grey area.

>>134380214

Go to any company website and an IQ/personality test is required. Every goddamn one.

They skip around that ruling by having the test give a "strong recommend" or "weak recommend" outcome so it's not the single factor in hiring.

>>134380434
>IQ/personality test
These are not the same thing. There are a ton of jobs that have nothing close to approaching an IQ test.

>>134379796
I went and took the test. Eerily accurate and not at all pandering like most of those tests it was honest about the flaws.
Interesting.

But if I understand you you're saying this doesn't have much evidence that correlates it with outcomes?

>>134371915
its ok tyrome nobody gives a fuck about iq we just say we do to make a real world justification for your kinds complete extermination

>>134378271
So he's a """"social scientist"""" pretending to have medical knowledge, much like how sociologists pretend to understand economics and statistics

>>134380792
no, i meant in terms of population structure, example (mass) immigration:
not only is low IQ bad, people might have a different personality structure
might be important part of cultural incompatability

>>134379125
>If IQ is fake for the Ivan
If you read what I wrote, I've never mentioned that.

>I'm sure he wouldn't mind his kid having IQ of a 75.
Being able to detect retards and a rather imprecise and generalised quality of a testee is extremely far-off from what /pol/ puts into IQ.

>>134381390
That seems extremely likely given how fast evolution can occur. The question is if this test predicts it in a useful way like iq does.

If you don't mind me asking where are you from, I can't place your way if speaking culturally

>>134375570
Guess this explains why niggers and spics drop out of school a lot.

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>>134371915
>IQ correlates with education
>IQ is useless in professional and business fields
How the fuck do you contradict yourself this badly in two sentences?

IQ only tells a part of the story. the other factor being a 'Creativity Quotient(CQ) for which there is no current metric; instead it is borne out by invention, creation, and doing that which was previously believed to be impossible. there are a couple of groups that hope like hell, that a CQ is never developed.

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>>134371915
I've purposely nestled my intellect from society because I find being famous for something always draws negative attention.

So I've used 4chan to proxy my ideas with crypto memes and destroy snow flakes like a flamethrower, all while being comfy.

And I've neglected personal image to warrant people away.

Yet I've come up with nanogenerator (TENG) propositions for new energy.

I could proposition a tensor on the curve of stupidity uttered by the morsels who actually think they are smart here.

In fact I've been pushing automation overtaking jobs for over 3 years.

>>134381726
needn't even be fast, humanity took its time already. It at least might explain, almost prove, that cultural differences are not that easily overcome by postmodernist queer dance theory classes.
>If you don't mind me asking where are you from, I can't place your way if speaking culturally
what do you mean?
germ btw

>>134382338
born into the wrong timeline; where high-intelligence is mocked

>>134371915

low IQ slav jealous of his Jewish co-eds detected

>>134382338

t. neet in basement

>>134382701
I meant only that I couldn't readily identify you as a type based on how you write, which I usually can. Your grammar is not off or anything it is just that you don't speak in idioms or where you do they seen like they are imported. Does "germ" mean German?

And "fast" is of course relative. We have been told that evolution takes millions of years because that is the number that places human population differentiation out of the realm of possibility.

>>134382887
I actually work 50-60 hours a week in physical labor.

I've come to find my needs at a young age and have concluded that society isn't worth investing in.

The long term outcome leaves you robbed of dignity. I find no worth in overcompensation in life if I enjoy how I live within my medium.

People make fun of those who can actually distinguish between need and want because everyone wants everything but they can't rationalize what they need.

>>134374898
Can confirm.
Adopted Russian from the 90's.
Not an idiot, to be sure.

>>134383223

Yeah and I'm Baron Trump. If you are insecure enough to brag about it on a Bulgarian Geese Farming board you obviously have issues with your success and intelligence. Sort yourself out cunt.

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>>134371915

Pic related shows my "official" "real" IQ (FSIQ) is 126—not to brag, but to show that there ARE really good online IQ tests because here are the ones that rated me ±1 point from my true IQ. If any 3 of these tests give you comparable scores (±5 points of the mean, probably) then you now know with 95% reliability what your IQ is.

FREE
> intelligencetest.com
> test.mensa.no
> The military PICAT (aka ASVAB). Talk to any recruiter about joining and they will give you a key to access the online test at home.

PAID
> giqtest.com - $10- probably the best out of ALL the "unofficial" tests, also gives a very nice report.
> us.mensa.org/join/mht/ - $10 - Mensa's official online "practice" test. They probably know more about IQ tests than anyone other than the military. Guaranteed extremely reliable.

>>134378082
I don't know what test you took. Also, I wouldn't rely on one test. Refer to the statement above on these tests and the reliability of average 3 or more with similar scores.

>>134383223
But you came here to brag about yourself instead of laying down your ideas. It show quite clearly that you came for self-validation. And most people who do it here are actually lowest of the low. Since you presented no proofs to your claims, it would be logical to consider you

>>134382338
>t. neet in basement

>>134383178
Oh ok. I am aso a bit type lazy atm.
I also like to make up and recombine idioms. After all, this is a meme board.
How do you classify?

Agreed, some 50 to 100 generations might be enough to see differences, depending on selection pressure
t. hans

>>134383857

Russia + USA = Killing Faggot Daily

>>134383786
tested twice
1st test 128
2nd test 132 - after eating breakfast as advised. but this doesn't tell the whole story. there is no metric as of yet for a creativity quotient. "some" who may not appear bright stars according to IQ spectrum; are able to mesh different disciplines and create something wild, fantastic and previously thought to be impossible because they understand topological metaphors at the application-level

>>134384287

What kind of insecure faggot pays for an IQ test?

>>134383786
Oh I just took the test.mensa.no one. I did it a couple of times I think; forgot what my first score was; something in the upper 120s.

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>>134384394
Your first score is the reliable one. I've also verified that one against my true proctored Wechsler score, so if you take a few other tests that I listed and they all give you a similar score then you know your IQ and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars or ever really think about it again. IQ doesn't change significantly throughout your life.

>>134384287
IQ score is delivered within a margin of error, usually 95%. You can now think of your score as being on its own little distribution curve with 130 in the middle and 134 at the extreme high end and 126 at the extreme low end. You are VERY LIKELY to be 130 (or, very likely to function at 130 MOST OF THE TIME) and much less likely to be closer to either extreme (or, closer to either extreme much less OFTEN).

>>134384373
> Losers who think not being poor makes you insecure. Your life sucks, and you suck.

>>134379467

All sorts of evidence from various types of tests.

You can train a person to be better at virtually any task, which creates appreciable differences in related brain regions.

A specific example from neurobiology is that people have been trained to discern slightly different pitched tones. As they train, they not only get better, to the point where they can tell the difference between tones they couldn't before, the region in the brain responsible for tonal differences grows.

The principle is the same. Differences are easier to detect for these smaller, focused areas (the brain area for detecting pitch is much better understood and simpler than the larger more vague "pattern recognition") but general growth in areas for spatial imagination in IQ tests have been measured

>>134385058
This isn't a convincing argument to me. You can't simply claim that because you can train to get better at X, you can train to get better at Y when X and Y are very very different things. In this case, discerning pitch is literally just long term memorization. That's totally different. Like I said earlier, a small increase seems likely to me, but I seriously doubt you'll see a shift of say 10 points if you constantly do IQ tests all day.

>>134384058
The classification is instinctive. It is probably because every German I have met is extremely leftist so you didn't register.

The sort off uncomfortable conclusion is that even people of different social classes are potentially undergoing speciation on a generation to generation level. At least that is how I understand it

>>134384373
>What kind of insecure faggot pays for an IQ test?
the insecure kind

>>134385031

It has nothing to do with the actual amount of the money, it's the fact that you paid for however many tests to validate your faggot ass feelings of superiority. For what? So you can post about it on a fucking anime image board? So you can hang your scores in your room? Tell all your online friends about it? You are still a fucking insecure loser at the end of the day.

>>134385327
no, but you would recognise certain patterns in the tasks and draw on experience how to solve them.
It also relieves you of the stress to figure out what the task at hand is, when you know the basic gestalt of these tests.

>>134371915
Vitality, Strength, and family ambitions are what keep a people alive.

/pol/ can masturbate about why they're the master race all day and night.... But only by abandoning the neurotic vision whites have crafted for ourselves can we survive.

No amount of utility will save you at this point.

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>>134385058
People like you misunderstand IQ.

IQ (or more precisely, little g) is, by definition, the metric which can't be trained to any significant degree and which is stable from the time you're about 12 until the time you die. If something can be trained beyond what an average 12 year old can reasonably be expected to grasp then it doesn't factor into an intelligence quotient.

>>134385525
You're projecting, and you're wrong. YOU might pay for a test because you're insecure or have an inferiority complex.

I paid for a test because I can afford it and if you understand IQ it offers IMMENSE insights. This is particularly true when you take an actual IQ test, which is proctored by a psychologist, who spends real time with you explaining the implications of the various scores composing an IQ score. He offers advice about your life before you take the test based on a long intake questionnaire, and explains how accounting for the fact of your various scores (and the differences between them) will maximize your sense of having a fulfilling life. He will also reiterate that a high score is a winning lottery ticket, and that a low score is an unfortunate lottery ticket, but that none of it matters if you don't take advantage of the OTHER resources life offers you.

Your failure is in not grasping that the wealth of knowledge in understanding how your individual brain is wired IS ONE OF THOSE RESOURCES. And therefore you're a dumb faggot. I don't even pity you, because you're too dumb to merit pity. Sad!

>>134386056

>t. neet in basement

Seriously you fucking loser how many hours at McDonald's does one have to work to pay for all these tests you've taken to validate your pathetic existence?

>>134374898
Damn you got BTFO

>>134385812
Whites in the present era will need to face collapse before they regain their will. The only possible exception is Russia and even they are seriously compromised.

Modern white men simply will not assert themselves.

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>>134386327

Are you high, or just retarded and poor?

If you don't find IQ interesting and have no motivation to test whether online versions are valid, fine.

In either case, fuck right off you insufferable peasant.

>>134386789

"Peasant", says the faggot who is so doubtful of his own intelligence that he has to tell an anime image board about it.

Oosh.

>>134385372
> It is probably because every German I have met is extremely leftist so you didn't register
every german here on /pol/?
Well, i think there are some german antifags here who want to be heroic or sth.
I don't know if the left v. right concept is intrinsically meaningfull at all.
There is a place for chaos *and* order. Unfortionately, those who claim to be left have brought about a very unsound authoritarian concept of chaos on everyone, to put it mildly.

By different groups, i meant populations in terms of race, then parallel societies.
I think it is true anyway that class membership is recognizable as group differences in big 5.

>>134378082
It kind of is, as the test isn't as accurate as the real one, and sometimes it's way of.
Most people score within 5 points of what they do on the real test though.

It's settled science, /pol/. Niggers are the future.

>>134371915
IQ is still the best indicator we have for personal success.

The reason it is abandoned in education and business is because shitskins have lower IQs so to test for it is "discriminatory"

>>134386056
just because it is not meant to be trainable doesn't mean it isn't.
everything is trainable, it is a question to what degree.

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>>134387024
Judging by your posts, you are projecting. How does it feel to be an insecure, low IQ peasant turd lol?

>>134374548
Prove your claims first. IQ underpins 90% of psychology, and isn't largely disputed. Hell, even Sam Harris specifically says its not even controversial from an evidentiary standpoint.

>>134387315
>everything is trainable, it is a question to what degree.
IQ is a measure of your capacity and ability to train at something, it is inherently untrainable.

You spastic cunt.

>>134387344

Right, I'm the insecure one yet you're the guy sitting at his computer telling everyone how smart you are... sure thing bud.

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>>134371915
>>Useless
Not at all.
>abandoned in any professional or business fields.
Because it's ILLEGAL, though they find ways around it by asking other questions.
>Correlates with upbringing, experience and education
Yes it does. But it's majority effected by genetics.
>rather than natural intellect
How was "natural intellect" measured aside from iq?

I know this is a shitpost thread, but there are enough newfags lurking about.

>>134387099
I agree with everything you say here. And I meant Germans I have met in real life, not on /pol/. It is hard to believe you come from the same country as them; then again in sure the same could be said for me and Canadians.

However I have to ask you, is there evidence for the big 5 test being predictive of these differences, because if there is not we are no better than the leftists.

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>>134371915
>implying ANY "IQ measurement cite" is legitimate

IQlet detected

>>134377803
If you amputate a baby cheetah's legs at birth, it won't be able to run anywhere. Does that mean the cheetah's speed is ultimately determined by environmental factors? Or would you agree that cheetahs are, all things held equal, naturally very fast as a result of their genes?

>>134387564
You can train to increase your IQ score somewhat. That's just reality. A good day or a bad day will have an effect. You're very unlikely to move a standard deviation, but you can change.
But most people that dispute iq isn't because of its issues with precision it's because they just don't like what the data says.

>>134387564
You can train to increase your IQ score somewhat. That's just reality. A good day or a bad day will have an effect. You're very unlikely to move a standard deviation, but you can change.
But most people that dispute iq isn't because of its issues with precision it's because they just don't like what the data says.
>>134377803
>poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects
Well yeah, we kind of assume that the parents in question aren't junkies that let their kids starve.

>>134388121
yea, i was waiting for the moment he realizes how detrimental a bullet to the head might be for IQ
> be wikipedia
> beginn article with stupid pathology

>>134388128
>But most people that dispute iq isn't because of its issues with precision it's because they just don't like what the data says.
You can train at a task which measures IQ and get a higher score, right, but that's not how they're intended to be used.

At any rate it seems we agree basically, I actually was discussing something with my mate and his missus was there and as soon as I mentioned IQ she chimed in with "iq is basically null and void now since it was made to discriminate against minorities" - less than 2 days ago.

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>>134377407
>only having 'high average' perceptual reasoning and processing speed

Maybe you should lay off the sleeping pills and soda, dopey.

>>134387760
Don't forget that the market advances people with high IQ by its mere natural mechanisms—test banning be damned. Any IQ score is correlated with a SHITLOAD of other factors, so high IQ people are simply more likely to be high functioning and highly competent. Even though they're banned from producing a test score to demonstrate their intellect, their demonstrable history of accomplishments will speak for itself.

I dont need to believe in IQ to see that most black people are fucking morons

>>134374898
IQ testing doesn't have much use in the job market yes, but IQ does have a massive impact on society. Ignoring the affects of IQ on society is like pretending you don't have feet even though you're standing on them.

>>134374548
>Peterson is not a psychologist.
Yes he is you dumb shit.

>>134387784
yes that was my point, /pol/ doesn't have good pills on it.
I am faily certain there are substantial differences, it is just very politically verboten.
Differences between men and womb men are somewhat bhetter researched, f.e. women semm to be 0.5-0.7 std. dev. higher on agreeableness. also more hysteric (neuroticism).
blacks are 1.15 - 1.2 times higher in testosterone iircc, that has got to alter personality.

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>>134371915
Sick sources, bro. Fuck your shitty bait thread.

>>134388600
u are holding it wrong, man

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>people screech at based anon
>my sides

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>>134371915
>Correlates with upbringing, experience and education, rather than natural intellect.

>>134371915
It should be replaced with a Usefullness Score.

>>134389074
You have to bait people by definition, because if you don't, you will go down in archive with zero replies like a sad faggot.

Still, I believe that thread turned out to be pretty comfy and intellectual by /pol/ standards, which was my goal.

>>134374898
>Private enterprise doesn't use IQ whatsoever
Because you'd get slammed with a disparate impact lawsuit within seconds.

>>134371915
>Modern psychology uses much more elaborate system that measures certain attributes of intellect directly and separately
IQ is one of them, yes.

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>>134389329
I just assume every retarded thread is someone playing doubles advocate

>>134389230
I agree. You can have a lower IQ and still be useful to society. We need garbage men, waitresses and hair dressers after all, there is absolutely no shame in being a functioning member of society.

>>134374898
>Private enterprise doesn't use IQ whatsoever
Try joining the military.

>>134389030
Well that puts us at an impasse does it not, if we are not allowed to study the differences...

I hate to be overly inquisitive but I have to ask again, what are your political affiliations being as you have this rather detached appraisal of human existence?
I mean what are the implications of these very real differences in race and sex, and how do they relate to your understanding of history and the future?

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>>134371915
>rejects a thoroughly studied attempt to measure intelligence called IQ
>being able to learn things from upbringing, experience, and education have nothing to do with intelligence
>makes unfounded assertions with no sources

You're just mad that Slavic countries are brainlets compared to non-Slavic Euro countries, the US, Canada, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

Have fun being just another angry brainlet Slav.

>>134387784
I think there is a high level of trust in the german psyche, almost sheep level like. This is being corrupted and exploited by polititians, ideologues and media. But hopfully this is coming to an end. Much to slowly, though.

>>134389502
>private enterprise
>military
Ah, to be an EU member.

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What does this mean anons?

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>>134374548
Thanks, commiefag. Sort yourself out or we will beat your ass on the ice....again.

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>>134374898
>Private enterprise doesn't use IQ whatsoever
Wrong.
>zero scientific or utilitarian value
Wrong.
>There were tests that showed that it was social status that influenced IQ
No sources, and wrong.
>adopted children that grew together in a similar conditions as the native ones
Wrong.

>>134389698
That you should go back to Pakistan.

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>le t. Neet in basement me-me
lol any argument countered by this is a shill who is mad that they get paid to shitpost and read us call them stupid.

Stay mad

>>134380792
It's pretty much worthless in cross-population comparisons, as people will get a result that is relative to their own population.

>>134389365
He's wrong and dumb. Private enterprise relies massively on IQ tests, and it is NOT illegal. (It IS illegal if they aren't developed professionally and are not used according to the developers intention—in other words, they must be employment oriented IQ tests, or they must be IQ tests crafted to appear as such).

Google Wonderlic or Hire Success. Even the NFL uses it.

Elite and semi-elite job positions require applicants with degrees from prestigious schools. Those schools offer admission based on scores from IQ tests like the SAT, GRE, etc.

And of course, any high functioning highly successful person with a history as proof, is going to be high IQ. People who hire for valuable positions without the Wonderlic or prestigious degrees are hiring based on a proven track record—a record which is going to be dominated by high performers AKA high IQ individuals. Pretty sure Jordan Peterson talks about that.

>>134389698

you're only 60% white, sorry

The whole IQ is solely based on socioeconomic factors is complete bullshit. I was born dirt poor in West Virginia to dumb hick parents and my average score was 134. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

>>134389849
I'm Hungarian.

I suspect my results are more due to my autism and very abusive parentage.

>>134389698
It means that you aren't dysfunctional enough to be in Mensa.

>>134389591
My guess is that there is already research hidden in the peer reviewed literature. Maybe arkwardly framed or contextualized, but nonetheless.
I think the prime directive atm has got to be to get recognition for those facts, that these are real and have real consequences. This would be a huge step forward.

>>134390037
You also probably had loving and nurturing parents instead of assholes.

>>134371915

The shills who attack Anon5 lack it, but make up for it by abusing kids.

>>134389602
You Germans do seem singularily capable of cooperation and productivity. But I wonder how that will play out in the future.

Does it mean you require a strong and moral dictator? I think that might be true of all human populations to some extent.

At the same time there are deeper historical questions, why did Germany exult in music, philosophy, and government while being overtaken by Anglo thought,? Indeed why did the entire world succumb to Anglo dominance?

The question is important I think

>>134389966
No, any criteria used for hiring (strength/endurance for firefighters) which has a disparate impact on populations(black/white, men/women etc) can be used as a basis for a disparate impact lawsuit if:
1. You can point to the specific criteria which has a disparate impact and show that it does
2. The employer cannot prove that it is necessary.

Just as point 2 implies, you've reversed the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent.
That's why everyone's got some refurbished IQ tests instead of doing it straight. Because you can't well argue for general intelligence, so they use some "not-IQ test" instead which is slightly more specific and obviously related to the field or task.

There's tons of not-IQ tests floating around and being widely used(SAT being one), you'd have a much harder time finding anyone who uses legitimate IQ tests instead of half-baked knockoffs like that.

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>IQ test question
>mark the different one
>seeing, screaming, smelling, hearing
>screaming doesn't consist in a sense
>hearing is the only one that doesn't start with an "s"

so you rule someone as stupid for choosing a different pattern?

IQ is shallow

>>134390194
But truth is subservient to the interests of the humans in question, and the two rarely align.

We can only hope for the future if we accept the flaws of humanity and take them into account in our plans

>>134378082
Depends on the test. It needs to be relatively broad and riorous, testing the typified multiple areas with a scale of questions that places correct answers generally out of reach of more people the more questions there are.

Next, the test needs to collect thousand to tens of thousands of full responses before averaging the scores, and the test needs to be both adhering to IQ standards as well as correlated with standard deviations among other tests.

This is basically the framework of a good IQ test. There's plenty free online tests out there, and if you come across one where the answers are mostly too easy youre either a super genius or it's a bad test.

>>134390425
Dont think so, no. But ghrmans strike me as very suceptible to propaganda and reluctant to accept that the propagandist might not have the purest of motives. simple minded in this regard.
I think a lot of things were already figured out quite well in the nineties or so, but it was lost subsequently.

>>134390850
The average iq of pol poster is probably around 115. From my general experience half the people here are 130 iqs dissatisfied with the mainstream consensus and the other half are 100 iqs who have had very bad experiences with minorities. There are very few idiots or geniuses here. But we are clearly better off than Reddit or Tumblr or whatever, the incredibly hostile nature of the discourse here eliminates everybody who can't defend their position except straight up Nazis who do not care for social conventions because they are already lepers in all of society.

This is a tangential post but I thought it relevant

>>134391512
>in the 90's
>when everything was virtually the same
>only the symptoms of the illness wasn't so blatantly visible
whew, lad

>>134390287
>instead of assholes
I don't think you understand what it takes to survive, leaf. IQ could possibly be a direct result of being raised in a borderline (or what modern society considers borderline) abusive family life.

>Tough times create strong men
>Strong men create good times
>Good times create weak men
>Weak men create tough times

>>134390523

I think we're having a heated agreement.

Obviously screening with official literal IQ tests puts you at high risk for a lawsuit (though it isn't by definition illegal).

But it just makes it a 2 step process. The "real" IQ tests are normed and have public data, so you simply have to screen using metrics that correlate highly with IQ test RESULTS (e.g. degrees from schools requiring high SAT scores, or the Wonderlic test used by the NFL). And, naturally therefore, this is what we see, and is what you pointed out because we are in agreement.

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>>134391580
"Dissatisfied with the mainstream consensus" is such a brainlet position to hold. It's one thing to distance yourself from groupthink, and another to adopt a contrarian lifestyle because you can't think your own thoughts on anything.

>>134391512
I cannot agree with you because my view of history is very different. I respect your opinion nonetheless

>>134391690
yes, the symptoms became visible, but were not taken care of properly.

>>134391909
I was describing a type of/pol/ poster not myself. I am not remotely "contrarian", I have a clear method for evaluating positions

>>134392006
oh ok, what is your view?

>>134391909
recognising that theconsensus is bullshit is brainlet how exactly?

>>134392292
My view is that civizations occur when a something conduces or inspires a people to become something much greater than what they are, to create. Oswald Spengler and Carroll Quigley offer, respectively, mystic and scientific, explanations of the same process.


The question is very deep and involves a lot of philosophy to even approach It, but men have no other recourse in the end but science/philosophy and religion.

I believe that the West is a singular entity, born somewhere between the fall of Rome and the rise of Charlemagne; and i believe it is dying, as everything dies.

I could be wrong, I admit that, but that is what my mind shows me when I look for truth and not for how I want the world to be

>>134393119
oh ok, i somewhat aggree, certainly on the science+philosophy idea.
What i meant was that in the nineties there was a good chance for establishing a scientifically driven society that recognized individuality as well as the greater good.
that came under attack quickly by an ideology that placed the ruthless egoist above all else economically. Also, postmodernism had already gotten hold to claim science.
I fucking hope it is not dying.

>>134391763
Oh yes, absolutely. They're just testing for IQ via proxy, accepting a mildly less accurate result for the sake of a stronger legal defense. I think you'll be comforted to hear that insurance companies are extremely competent at using proxies in a similar way to bypass bullshit laws.

What I wanted to get across is just how fucking nonsensical disparate impact legislation is, and the whole process of those lawsuits.

>>134392146
The symptoms aren't what need treating.

>>134393119
I am not big on religion, but i am by no means against working out some spiritual core principles or so.

>>134394189
of course not, you have got to go to the root.
suggestions?

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>>134371915
My 169 IQ says you are wrong.

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>>134392157
Don't worry, I don't have problems with reading comprehension.
I'm saying that those "130 iqs" you (and probably they themselves) believe you're seeing are more likely to be 105s. People who are just barely smart enough to say "something is happening", but have no way of acting on that knowledge. They learn that they are helpless and, due to lack of agency, recoil from the thinking that made them hurt, deploying their defense of contrarianism.
>>134392831
Whether or not the position a typical /pol/ster happens to hold is logically consistent and fact-based is not really correlated with their intelligence. Any number of people could believe something given the right set of circumstances sets them on the path. What matters in regards to intelligence is if the process by which those positions are attained is logically consistent and fact-based. This isn't necessarily to say that everybody needs to spam links or read 50,000 books; collected observations from peers and personal memories are indeed facts. Their ability to be proved isn't relevant since their only purpose is to be used by the individual in their own internal debate.

There's nothing wrong with holding a niche/controversial view. Just don't gloat about how smart you are for holding it if you didn't put in the mental labor. That key word you used, "recognising", is practically a veneer compared to what the waterfall of does-anyone-else?-posting would suggest.

Then again, almost everything on the internet is a shitpost.

>>134394624
I don't know, maybe you'd find something if you just went a little further back.

>>134394869
Contrarianism is a healthy first response.
>shit, I've been lied to all my life
>worldview crumbles
>do and say the opposite of what the liars want so as not to play into their hands until;
>you've identified the liars and their goals, and can finally sort the wheat from the chaff
>take the truth, leave the lies

>>134394869
I agree, there is to much pointles piling on with no actual value atm.
It is basically the same corruption with supremacy that the left has (left:moral supremacy).
They are just lucky that the facts are better researched and are not supposed to be dependend on subjective feels.

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>>134395365
It's a natural response, but it's not healthy. Like sugary food, it's easy for the undisciplined to reach for it at any sign of trouble. It would be healthier to re-evaluate all positions with all information available and try to stave off settling down until you're sure that the logic is ready for application. You could employ some probing responses in the hopes of baiting out further information, sure, but it's inefficient outside of formal debating - especially in the shitpost marathons of public forums, electronic and physical both.

Anyway, time for bed.

>>134394901
That thing had its own problems and a level of totalitarianism that shouldnt be needed.
So what is a viable strategy?

>>134396165
>complete information
It's a value judgement, the entire point is you don't have complete information. If you've identified someone is trying to fuck you over, and you have to act now, the best you can do is the opposite of what he says. It's a crapshoot, but worst comes to worst at least he goes down with you.

It is a healthy first response and it is a necessary step of the process of self-realization, in that it drives you to completely reevaluate everything tangentially related to the lie which you formerly took for granted.

why is pol so easy to troll lol cmon guys

>>134371915
You forgot
>developed by (((psychologists)))

>>134371915
Facts about IQ
>Schools FORCED to give it up because blacks, Arabs, and Latinos performed so badly on the tests
>Businesses FORCED to give it up because the government denounced it as "racist"
>G-factor correlates around 80% with heredity
>Average IQ for populations is an amazing predictor of economic success
>Liberals refuse to believe in intelligence right up until they want to claim they are smarter than conservatives
>OP can't spell
>Nobody here said the cheap online tests you get were valid replacements for real IQ tests

>>134396919
>right up until they want to claim they are smarter than conservatives
has been replaced with morally superior and better educated

>>134396541
Polar opposites can be pretty risky, with reverse psychology and all. I would only use it in the most absolute of emergencies, when there's no time to even process what just happened before it's time to act. I'd say it's healthy TO HAVE a reaction in a case like that, but it's about as short term of a solution as an adrenaline rush, or as sturdy as a turniquet. It's not something to parade around on /pol/ if you want a real response.

>>134396474
>revoke women's suffrage
>???
>profit
It's a much better gamble than reverting to what directly resulted in this mess. They actually tried to create a disparate ideology to address modern woes. Cause and effect is real, you can't be satisfied with the measures if you're at odds with the results. They weren't right in the 90's because it got us here and you do not want to be here. Plug your ears and stick your head in the sand if you will but as long as you cling to the cause of the problems you're not going anywhere.
>lets do the same exact thing and hope it works out better
is not a strategy. You've got to go back and DO IT better.

>>134374548

>[A holder of a PHD in Psychology with years of practical experience with patients working as a clinical psychologist who expends most of his professional effort writing about and teaching psychology at a university level] is not a psychologist.

Dude. Just say you think he's wrong or something, that comment was pretty stupid.

>>134396165

120 brain-ish here
During the process of degradation, people are often met with a contrarian nihilistic viewpoints that can help sort positive emotion from negative during the rebuild of the self. It takes a long time to recover from a standpoint of inherent contrarianism and I often find myself tempted to view the world from that standpoint as a cop-out.

It's perfectly healthy to view the world from the eyes of a contrarian so long as you are in control of your emotional state.
Otherwise, you're fucked.

>>134397753
i agree that sound foundations were horrendously neglected and corruption of core tenets was handled to liberal.
It strikes me as true that a lot of corrosive elements came through the women.
how about letting mothers vote?

>>134397490
Of course, it's a first response. I said it's the best possible course of action IF all you have to go on is the single fact that you're being lied to. Obviously you can always get better information than that with some time, even if complete information is a pipe-dream.

As a step in self-realization it's again just step one. You took it for granted. It's not something you evaluated before, you're at ground 0, you've got nothing. But it was a lie and now you've got to start somewhere. Diametrically opposing the lie is just a starting point, but it's the best possible starting point you have. That's why identifying the liar and his goals is important, it aids you in determining why you're being lied to and what you're being lied to about. It helps you salvage what can be saved from it, speeding up the process by leaps and bounds.

It's being content with contrarianism that's a problem. That's lazy, that makes you liable to being manipulated, that's what stops you from developing your own views.

>>134398015
It's a triage response. And from personal experience, it's perfectly reasonable to reach a point where such measures become nothing more than a waste of time to even begin. I'll just say this before I pass out: Even though there is more information out there than any one human could synthesize, skillful (and sometimes fortuitous) research for a mere handful of hours every month, spread out to taste, will grant you such a heightened perspective that you will not go wanting for a fact to cling to ever again. I'm only 22 and at this point I'm already wondering what the limits of this information gathering could be.

Never stop gathering; you will reach a point where nobody can fool you.

>>134371915
People just misunderstand what IQ tests do.

It's a comparative test, you have people complete a series of questions, and you compare their results. It's not even about intelligence, something on which no one agrees to a definition, it's just IQ, the thing measured by the test whatever it is, and how people talk against one another.

IQ tests are only as good as the test and the database for comparison. Serious IQ studies are expensive, and most websites don't have their results backed by anything steps, and even fail to ask you the proper questions about yourself to find the proper category for your results to be interpreted. An IQ test is simple and reproducible, but I shouldn't just be considered "intelligence", and your results are worthless unless compared with other people.

>>134398623
Anything that leads to less women voting will have some effect. Just like any insurance company would be ecstatic to find a list of people buying watermelon and fried chicken. But you can do better.

The 90's was just the last spurt of urbanization and the last nail in God's coffin. Abandoning the last vestiges of morality for the sake of freedom, fully materialistic, fully universalist, the community completely dead, the family dying, the nation state dying. Degenerate on every level from philosophical to policy. Sure you were free from old morals and free from responsibilities, and the economy was booming on the short-term with the international market being opened up further. It was good, but now that the long-term consequences are starting to become realized you're not so sure no more.

What's different now? We're just a few turns later into the same game. Your opening set the board. Might have looked promising but it didn't pan out. You know what you played and you know how it was beat. So you think of a move that can not be beaten the same way.

You need a disparate ideology, not a time machine. And that's the charm of it. It's the last real attempt, that's what they meant by the "third position". Not capitalist, not socialist, on a whole other axis. Disparate to both schools, not a mere middle-ground but irreconcilable with both. That's the process.

>>134391580
>Average IQ of /pol/ is 115
Being a bit generous, aren't we?

>>134402767
That's just like 1 in 6 or 7, not really extraordinary. Especially not when it's such an odd group. You'll definitely find this place deviating more than that from the norm in terms of agreeableness.

>>134393119
The west was born when the Roman Republic was at it's height, the dark ages, various hardships and religious reforms that came after it's fall were an essential part in its evolution.

>>134373966
And it has subtitles, nice.