Scott Adams wipes the floor with Sam Harris

>>134290218
Sam Harris is an atheist zionist. He should lose everyday.

>>134290335
If his logic in this debate carried over in every other aspect of his life he absolutely would lose everyday.

Sam Harris is a piece of shit.

>>134290218
I'm not going to sit through 2+ hours of this, point to me where the fun part is?

>>134291775
this

I'm not wasting my time on this kike's boring monotone voice for more than 10 minutes.

Listened to this earlier. Sammy sounded like a retard. Scott Adams is clearly 20 IQ points higher. I haven't followed Harris much, but I was pretty shocked about how awful his presumptive, emotional arguments were. He just gave up half of the time when challenged on something he stated.

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>liberal intellectual vanguard gets curbstomped on his own show by this guy

tempting, but 2 hours is still 2 hours

Dishonest Sam Harris doesn't deserve the clicks.

>>134290218
I thought it was a fairly even exchange with scott being only slightly ahead by the end.

On one hand, sam was outraged and off balance, but he did offer some good counterpoints now and then.

>>134290218

Sam keeps saying that he just knows Trump is a piece of shit almost instinctively because he is a rich, greedy businessman and can't believe others don't see it. I bet he doesn't have this same reaction to Jewish businessmen though.I bet he doesn't realise he is seething because an alpha white man is in charge and it's his natural instinct to hate them.

Holy shit. He cleaned Sams room for him. That twat is totally paid off as an authority against Trump. So transparent.

But dudes....I thought everyone liked Sam as the fifth Horseman of Atheism.

>>134290218
Again, is Scott Adams even that pro trump? I've never considered him such. He usually just explains Trumps way of communicating but never makes a moral case for right wing ideas (personal freedoms, restricted immigration, lower taxes, fiscal responsibility) and just say because of his communication tools he had to support him...

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Sam Harris deserves a lot of credit for being a "liberal" with the nerve to speak honestly about IQ with Charles Murray. Harris admitted he was deluded by leftist propaganda all these years designed to destroy Murray's character and research. Then he read The Bell Curve and realized Murray was legitimately reporting on IQ differences.

Harris is a brainwashed leftist waking up. Slowly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lEPQYQk8s

Haven't listened yet, but no one has never "wiped the floor" with Sam Harris in a debate, and I'm skeptical Scott Adams did. The thing about Scott Adams is he is a very subtle troll. He's clearly a Trumptard, but he always wraps his arguments around a veneer of neutrality so that he can plausibly claim he's just "making an observation." It's frustrating arguing with people like him, so I can imagine why Harris would be upset.

I like Scott Adams but I don't know how much of Sam Harris I can listen too.

>>134292831
Scott never reveals his political stance because (i imagine) it would weaken his ability as a persuader.....

But clearly he supports trump on some level. He has devoted a huge amount of time trying to persuade people to like trump more than they do.

What do liberals mean when they attack Trump by calling him a persuader and opportunist.

oh its cold inside, ill close the window. I'm an opportunist! oh i want this person to agree with me on this thing, im a persuader!

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>>134290218
Scott forces Sam into basically becoming a stuttering wreck.

Basically it goes something like this

>Sam calls Trump a liar
Scott points out that Trump talks to the spirit of the American and isnt here to recite talking point.

Forces Sam into "Trump is Hitler" emotional break down

>Sam calls Trump a Con man
Scott triggers Sam when he points out Sam's cognitive dissonance and projection onto Trump, and is really just angry Trump is a good deal maker and good at getting stuff done.

>Sam retreats to "climate change" because he thinks muh science is a safe space
Scott says debate is good for the subject matter, and harkens back to when "diet science" sold us on the food pyramid so hard back in the day, which is now proved to be bull shit.

Sam says food science is hard and unclear, but climate science is absolute and should not be questioned.

>Final Word
Sam is just a stuttering reckt at this point. Starts randomly jumping from strange topic to strange topic.

>>134292831
No. He even says he's socially more left than the far left in the beginning of the podcast. He's just stating why Trump isn't literally Hitler, but being rational and straying from the script is enough for partisan dullards to label him a Nazi.

>>134293293
Accurate rundown

>>134293083
>>134293070
>>134292414
>>134291775

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>>134291775
>>134292045
this. come on faggots where is the interesting bit I can't stand this kike

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>>134292706
>I'm an Atheist AND a Jew

"Psychopaths are just unlucky guys, there is no such thing as free will."

Not an exact quote, but a basic gestalt. Fuck Sam Harris.

>>134290218
He made excuses of "he hypnotized me" 3 times, you know he got humilated.

An "intellectual" and professional speaker got beat by a guy that draws comic strips.

>>134293045
>Harris is a brainwashed leftist waking up. Slowly.
No you idiot, he's a subversive jew

>>134292706
It's the same story again and again. Fundamentalist conservatives of America get their fun-time with a Bush America and 9/11 brings Islam into the mindset of the American people. Out of this a secular counter culture of atheist speakers start to gain some major ground both high (like Dawkins) and low (Youtube fedoras like Thunderfoot).

The times of bashing the fundies started to lose steam with Obama and now it was Islams turn to get more criticism. But they pussied out and then the storm of PC social justice warrior bullshit started to ramp up in the early 2010's.

neo-leftism threw Atheism under the bus and now all these speakers can't get shit done because they're forbidden from criticizing Islam. So they all take their shots instead to criticize the modern right, one which isn't fueled by fundamentalist delusions.

Here we are, they're all an absolute stuttering mess.

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>>134293293
>Sam says food science is hard and unclear
That's even more true for climate "science". On may even argue, if a science trying to predict the climate of the entire globe for the next one hundred years is even science at all. Can their models be tested? Are their theories falsifiable? Indeed climate "science" is often so bad, it's not even wrong. What we do know however is that there is thousands of drones eager for the government Shekels who are more likely to get funding, the more doomy and gloomy their prophecies are. So they create the problem they are paid for to fight. It is real in their mind. And what could be more doomy and gloomy than THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!111 - We know they have lied and they will lie again. True with the ADL, probably true with climate "scientists".

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>>134294248
>high (like Dawkins)

BUT IT'S NOT ETHICAL TO MANIPULATE PEOPLE

>>134293729
He's right though
determinism is the final redpill. Laws are built around the concept of free will despite the fact that it's an illusion and you just have to put up with that.

>>134294495
(with lies)

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>>134294475
>An evolutionary biologist isn't a legitimate authority on atheism

>>134294554
Free will follows from an apriori concept of individuals. It literally can't be wrong. It's foundational. Saying free will is an illusion is equivalent to saying people don't exist. Even if the world is deterministic (it is), the concept of free will is not affected by that.

>>134294725
Your decisions are a result of the information you have (ie the inputs you've recieved in your life) and biological hormone shit. Both are 100% determinable and manipulatable. Free will does not exist.

>>134294816
I've already agreed that determinism is true.

Your concept of free will is incoherent and irrelevant. It's not what people are talking about.

>>134293070
>no one has never "wiped the floor" with Sam Harris in a debate, and I'm skeptical Scott Adams did

Harris basically says upfront Adams got the better of him and kept him off kilter. Certain parts Harris was basically stuttering and kept trying to find something to say.

>Adams: "Where is the evidence that is Trump harming society?"
>Harris: "People are talking about politics more"

>Harris: "I think Trump is a terrible persuader"
>Harris: "I think Trump is a conman who convinced a lot of americans to vote for him."
>Adams: ;)

>>134294587
>muh appeal to authority
What he actually did was pure cancer. Noone held me longer in Christianity which I wanted to leave than the likes of him (((Lawrence Krauss))), Daniel Denett and the rest of the disgusting bunch.

>>134290218
Scott who bought a thott Adams just demolished his whole podcasts

>>134294935
Loved it when Harris called Trump a Nazi/Hitler and Adams asked if that means he won.

I watched about 45 minutes before I got bored, it was awful. Sam Harris just keeps spouting generic anti-trump buzzwords including MUH RUSSIA, treason, impeach, literally Hitler etc and Adams basically has to explain to him why he's acting like a fool over and over. Previous to this the only Sam Harris I knew of who was a political commentator was a gay british guy who I have a webm of demolishing a mud so I had no conceptions of the guy beforehand.

Sam Harris is a vicious kike, his only priority is to do the thinking for all goyim for them so they don't commit wrongthink or wake up or anything. this is why he became a (((philosopher)))

that podcost is full of the most vicious kike shit-flinging at Trump. every single mind rapey false point in the media was used by him

>>134292566
all Harris used was Mind Rape and false media talking points

>>134295290
On the other hand, he points out the refugee problem and the race/IQ problem.

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>tfw to intelligent for persuasion

>>134295115
Sam Harris fanboys got assblasted by Adams calling out Harris's equivocating and shifting.

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>>134295290
One would wonder why so many Jews hate the most Jewish president of all time.

>>134295330
>all Harris used was Mind Rape and false media talking points

I think his point that trump is an unscrupulous guy is completely valid.

Scott implies that this is all ok because persuasion.... but i'm not convinced that it's so easy to brush it under the rug.

I think there's something to the idea that if we as a society give up on "facts", the basis for communication across the political divide may completely break down.

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>>134290218
PEOPLE FUCKING LISTEN TO THIS. Holy shit, Scott is basically mind raping Sam and Sam is basically too low iq to get any of it. Listen to it while youre working or something.

>>134293658

New Atheism is Politically Correct Zionism for neckbeards.

That's all it is.

Well, not all. Like so many other Jewish Enlightenment movements, it serves to actually block the way towards enlightenment. That is to say, "Muh Book of Myths" "Muh Fairy Tales" blocks real inquiry in to the source of religious evil in the West, which is Judaism.

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>>134295534
>the idea that if we as a society give up on "facts", the basis for communication across the political divide may completely break down.

RIIIIGHT. Tell me again who hammers MUH RUSSIA TREASON IMPEACH KGB OWNS WASHINGTON!!!! so hard down the throats of their gullible audience, that a boomer bernbot actually went out to mass kill republicans. Why are you so cucked? The left is handing you their annihilation on a silver plate and you don't use the opportunity. Jesus.

>>134293293
Regarding the first supposed "lie" about Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attack both inside the US and around the world. That wasn't a lie. It was 95% truth. 5% grey area due to hyperbole about the NJ incidents (which did happen) being conflated with the larger reports and clips of celebrations from around the world in support of the attack.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_TwEaF5Jh0
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-GzAQWTsRI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JeuUH5JjQA
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auKMHkZJnQ
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOp-TiG_Nug

They pretended Trump was insane for imagining anything remotely similar to Muslims celebrating on TV. They acted like he was insane for things that end up being either true or mostly true. They kept digging their own graves by responding with larger lies. Scum of the earth.

Very familiar with Harris, have to say I may differ in political viewpoints but I have great respect for his work.

>>134295534

Jews slander and propagandize and push narratives. That is "reality" and "truth" to them. What they can get goyim to believe that serves Jewish agendas, through intimidation, repetition, and persuasion is "truth".

>>134295071
Show me on the doll where the atheist touched you.

Dawkins in recent years has stagnated like I mentioned beforehand. He's too much of a pussy to attack Islam for fear of both liberal and Islamic repercussions. His opinions beyond his specialty are about as valid as Hawkins political input.

However, to deny that he is a higher authority on the matter of evolution is just blatant asshurt by christfags who desperately want Christianity to be a non-negotiable aspect of /pol/ and any of it's motivations.

Sorry anon, /pol/ might be one massive national socialist/libertarian board but you'll never convince even half of it that Christianity is the only way.

i thoguht it was bullshit, but i just watched it and wow

sam harris got btfo

Scott Adams is really growing on me. I hope he swings more right.

>>134295713
Fake news is bad, right?
It's bad. He may have been bamboozled by the media himself, but It's still true that we should try to maintain some standard of truth, no?

I'm not saying sam's version of the truth is correct, but "facts" as an idea is a good one. I don't think it's a good idea to just throw it away.

>>134295788
They do, and that's bad. They're bad. There's something to the idea that we as a society should frown on being told things that don't pass the fact check.

I love how we pretend not to like Sam Harris in order to bait his fanboys

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>>134295817
Look in the mirror, dumbass. Your pretentious, spoon up your ass post with your pathetic smugness is the perfect embodiment of the cancer that is the nu atheists. And if you bothered to read: I am an atheist. And I also read the entire works of Nietzsche and lots of Schopenhauer and other atheists who were worth something.

Dawkins is pure cancer and he created worse cultists than Peterson does today.

>>134295817
It's not Christfags that deny him his "status as master of evolution", but actual biologists. He's as much of a master of evolution as Niel Dygrasse Tyson is a master of physics.

I love sam harris but honestly havent listened to much of his work since the election

its so boring - i hope after being BTFO'd about trump he decides to talk about more interesting things again

>>134291775
>fun part
Literally starts at 0:00

>>134292831
Scott Adams is neutral towards Trump which to radical leftists means he's essentially a Nazi sympathizer.

Political debates for liberals typically depend on them trying to make the other person angry so that they get flustered and the liberal can feel like they are the calm and rational one. Someone that doesn't care about the emotional appeals the liberal makes can then easily win most any debate with them, because they can ignore the emotional appeals and comfortably call out the double standards.

>>134296107
Why do you love Harris? Are you retarded?
Literally a subversive jew

>>134295713
>>134295788

I think trump is a net good for us, but this is one of my reservations that i hold in the back of my mind.
Trump is a great tornado, and we ride it at our peril.

>>134296434

Im Jewish so that doesn't really bother me

I like his podcasts on Islam, gun control and AI

how is he subversive?

>>134296007
and I love how you type like a woman!
>Captcha:select all hats
No Maga-hats

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>>134296513
He's pretending to be some sort of open minded intellectual, but really he's pushing anti-nationalist jewish narratives.

This whole podcast was basically him saying anything and everything negative he could possibly think of about Trump. Even defaulting back to disproved scandals. He called Vladimir Putin a "dictator who murders his political opponents". Deep thinker this guy is

Also, gas yourself kike

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>>134296513
They're meming
>>134296700
I love how well you type with all that semen from your wife's bull in your eyes.

>>134296731

What are you talking about?

Almost every podcast he talks about superiority of western values..

don't be mad because us jews are smarter and control most of the wealth and intellectual achievements

>>134296016
>If you bothered to read
To be fair the structure of that sentence was completely fucked.
>Noone held me longer in Christianity which I wanted to leave than the likes of him.
In hindsight I guess you meant "No one kept me Christian more than that faggot even though I wanted to not be Christian" but since you can't cling to a religious belief yet "wish to leave it" I figured you were just flexing your cross.

>REEEE STOP BEING SMUG
It's the religious community on /pol/ that drew first blood, I'm a bit tired of all the "hurr your disbelief in god is commie psyops see look communism lists atheism that means yer commie your gonna get gassed in my national socialist christian empire" shit that's spewed by them.

>comparing Dawkin's to Nietzsche
Nietzsche teaches the life to live with atheistic perception, Dawkin's provides the scientific reasoning to get you to that point. An Apple and an Orange.

>>134296023
>Actual biologists deny Dawkins
On what grounds? What did he fuck up on?

>>134292045
>>134291775
this where do i skip to

>>134290218
The climate change part was embarrassing for Harris.

>Adams: "Don't you think this red-team blue team stuff is going to be very fruitful, and will probably bring a lot of people, who are being partisan on-board"
>Harris: "Well, yes, that sounds good, but I still don't like Trump because of x."

This happens repeatedly throughout the segment and only ends when Harris switches to something else.
I would've asked Adams if I could delete that segment if I was Harris

The Harris fanboys are only saying two things now
>Adams is immoral for saying feelings > facts when it comes to persuading people
>Adams is wrong for saying Harris shouldn't use allegories

>>134292831
Scott is a man who wants to help himself. He officially supported Trump when Clinton said she'd tax the rich by 140 percent.

>>134296900
I think he's genuinely subversive though. Not intentionally, but as a consequence of being who he is. I think he's well intentioned, but infected by the mind virus.

For example:
His position against free will (pro globalism)
His position against the value of IQ (not useful/all people are equal/globalism)
His position on morality (globalist/humanist)

>>134296955
>Almost every podcast he talks about superiority of western values..
By that he means, faggots and universal liberties.
He hates Muslims because he's a jew. His "universal values" talk is a weapon he's pointing at Muslims

Jews are slimy little fucks

>>134297025
45:20 Adams asks Harris how he knows that Trump is bad, and Harris's response is the fact that we are talking about politics more.

Scott Adams' claim that Trump is this master persuader is just BS on multiple levels. 45 minutes in, I don't see why Sam Harris hasn't pushed him on it.

The fact is, most people didn't buy Trump, and most people don't buy Trump. Outside of poor, disillusioned Republicans and people defined by their bigotry, Trump hasn't effectively persuaded anyone. Half of Republicans support Trump because he's Republican, not because they think he's actually intelligent or a good businessman.

He was the least popular president ever recorded on inauguration day and continuously breaks the "least popular president at this point in his presidency" record. His likability ratings through out the election and since his presidency are historically low. And, of course, he lost the popular vote. There isn't any meat to Scott's "master persuader" claim. Obama, Bush W., and B. Clinton were far more effective persuaders by any reasonable metric.

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>>134297511

>>134297511
Persuasion doesn't suddenly mean you 100% support Trump retard.

Persuasion can also mean literally fucking everyone is forced to talk about immigration when it wasn't even on the tables in an election.

>>134297511
Let's see how persuasive Bush or Obama are when the media is literally 100% of the time dropping hit piece followed by negative story followed by negative story about them, when any literal detail ever mentioned about him always has a negative slant, a negative context, when every instance where a negative perspective can be shown or even fabricated, that view is always shown.

>>134297213
>His position against free will (pro globalism)
How come? From what I've heard he consistently defends the position, that western countries need to control their borders and protect their culture. Like in his two podcasts with Douglas Murray
>His position against the value of IQ
You haven't listen to his podcast with Charles Murray, have you? In which he argues that IQ test is valid and the scores are extremely heritable.
>His position on morality (globalist/humanist)
Go on.

His major fault is not realizing the power of memes tho

>>134297511
He won the presidency = he's effective persuader. That's the only qualifier we need. Your pathetic attempt of excuse his voters as "poor" and "biggotend" has no leg to stand on.
There's plenty of youtube channels and specialists in persuasion who predicted this result, despite what any of the polls said. And they were right, you you were wrong.
As to Obama, Bush and Clinton - they all part of the establishment, they as effective at persuasion as any other run of the mill politician. Its enough to be successful against people who use the same tactics as they do, but as we all seen its not enough to win against someone who deals in business, not politics. Biggest media machine of the world couldn't stop him. Obama and Clinton are inept children compared to that.

Scott Adams asks why we Capifornia isn't under water. Says some places like Siberia might prefer some warmer weather. Tells Harris Economists like himself question what to do about Climate Change if anything. Tells Harris Trump wants transparency in research Red vs Blue team, how is that wrong? Harris pee pee poo poos Hitler meme.

>>134297932
>How come?
He says free will doesn't exist. And pushes the idea that it would be moral to brainwash people into being "(((good)))" instead of imprisoning them.

>>134297932
>In which he argues that IQ test is valid and the scores are extremely heritable.
In which he also says that there's no point in discussing IQ because it can only lead to conclusions he's not allowed to hold to be true.

>>134297932
>Go on.
He's a humanist. He holds that all people around the world have equal moral value and that the goal of morality is to increase the well being of humanity.

>>134295488
who should we vote for

>>134295488
playing both sides, probably

>>134295627
the pepe in this picture ruined it

>>134297633
That has nothing to do with persuasion. He talked about an issue that a significant amount of Republicans cared about but the establishment saw as too risky to make it front and center on their platform to get the White House. If you recall, pre-Trump, Republicans thought they couldn't get to the White House without courting Latino voters. That's pointing out the elephant in the room, not persuasion.

He persuaded a not-insignificant amount of people, but a more significant amount of people thought he was ridiculous. I'm looking for a justification for Scott Adams' "master persuader" claim and I'm not seeing it.

>>134298408

>he persuaded this whole group which led to him getting what he wanted, but this group that are irrelevant for his interests weren't persuaded
>trump is bad at persuasion

U wot m8

He blew out Harris on the lefts cognitive dissonance. We are watching two movies but Trump supporters got the good ending and life moved on. The libs need to wrap their heads around Hillary losing after they expected to win so easily. They're now rewriting the script to feel like they arent losers but rather cheated by Russia. Realizing the Truth that Trump was better than Hillary is more than they can handle. Harris shows he can't handle this Truth.

>>134298159
>pushes the idea that it would be moral to brainwash people into being "(((good)))" instead of imprisoning them.
Where does he say that? He argues that, certain people are born evil and can't change, so the only way to deal with them is imprisonment. I think the example he gave was Saddam's son.
>In which he also says that there's no point in discussing IQ because it can only lead to conclusions he's not allowed to hold to be true.
There's a difference between that, and saying that he's against "the value of IQ"? I agree, that his position on testing differences in race seems by based on emotions, but why are you saying that he against IQ tests?
>He holds that all people around the world have equal moral value and that the goal of morality is to increase the well being of humanity.
Yes. And he says that cultural destruction of western society will result in less well being for all humanity. C'mon, he argues that there needs to be certain racial profiling for security reasons and that porous borders are insanity.

Why does Scott have such weird Gumby mannerisms in his Periscope videos? He doesn't seem to have the problem on live TV.

>>134290335

zionism is just another name for jewish nationalism

the religious part is just an ethnic mythology

>>134298408
He turned the topic of being against illegal immigration from one of "deporting poor janitors just trying to scrape by" into "deport criminals that endanger communities".

>more significant amount of people thought he was ridiculous

And you base this on what? Do honestly think most people are believing his positions are ridiculous?

People do find some of his behavior ridiculous like banging supermodels and living in a golden home, but that doesn't people think his personal positions are ridiculous.

I'm guessing you actually believe some of the polls still even after all the evidence came out showing how they were oversampling Democrats on a regular basis, strategically so at times in order to make it look like Trump was doing poorly due to debates or whatever else.

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Listening more. Harris is bluepilled as fuck. Holy fuck. He's literally repeating bullshit MSM headlines and muh Russia "hacking the election" and he doesn't think most of these other elites have skeletons in their closet sexually and otherwise.
>yfw leftists listening think Harris "won" the conversation

>>134297748
I'll even concede that traditional journalists are largely against Trump, but that bias is far exceeded by his ineptitude, brashness, and corruptness that supplies them with the negative stories. You seem to have a problem with the truth.

Besides, Trump has a whole media machine not chained to journalistic ethics that exists to deflect any negative story against him and misinform the people. He has benefited immensely from the current media environment. It's laughable that you think he's a victim here.

>>134298985
>Where does he say that?
I think he mentions it in his convo with dan dennet on free will.

>>134298985
>but why are you saying that he against IQ tests?
I didn't say that. I explained what i meant by what I said.

>>134298985
>Yes. And he says that cultural destruction of western society will result in less well being for all humanity.

He's talking specifically about islam spreading. As a jew, he's worried about islam getting a strong foothold in the world.
He's not talking about immigration in general.

>>134299130
What do you mean, exactly? All I ever notice is the blinking nervous tic, and he does that on tv too.

>>134291503
This. Atheists are disgusting.

>>134299346
>ineptitude
subjective
>brashness
subjective
>corruptness
no proof whatsoever

Don't tell people they have a problem with truth when you can't even argue based on facts.

>>134291775
same's monologue ends and the podcast starts at 3:15. they plug some books until about 4:45 so skip to there
sam harris is basically the smartest lesftist (atheist jew who meditates and all that)

>>134297089
>Adams is wrong for saying Harris shouldn't use allegories

Analogies. He wasn't wrong, though. Why say something is like something else instead of just discussing the something at hand? We know what it's like, so discuss that. Adams was correct in calling out the pointlessness of it.

No one can be considered an intellectual unless they implement their ideas and proved it works.

Otherwise their all wanking themselves.

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>>134290218
I'm 45 min in, and pic related is my interpretation of what I'm hearing. Sam Harris just demonstrated fact that you can't think logically and emotionally at the same time--ironically proving Scott's point about Trump's persuasion strategy. I actually don't recall the last time I've seen someone walk directly into logical contradictions the way Sam is. This is pathetic.

>>134298022
>He won the presidency = he's effective persuader.

No, it really doesn't. And if that's the kind of logic you use, it's no surprise that you were persuaded by Trump. How good of a persuader you are would reasonably be measured by how many people you can persuade relative to your opponents, not how many electoral voters you got.

Besides, by using the presidency as a metric, Hillary is almost as good a persuader as Trump since the states that gave him the win was by small margins. If Clinton had won, no one would have called her an effective persuader, because she's not.

Basing anyone's persuasive abilities on their political office discounts the fact that people vote for parties and against candidates. Lots of people voted Trump because he was not Hillary Clinton and not a Democrat. Trump could have been a pet rock and Republicans would have voted him over Hillary.

>>134292566
harris had no substance outside of a few examples and analogies, plus he went full hitler which shows how very little he understands the inner machinations of trump himself

>>134293070
That's why I enjoy tuning into Scott Adams every now and then. The guy has fuck off money for his desired lifestyle and is clearly enjoying the fact he not just predicted Trump's victory but provided at the least a plausible explanation for what happened. He obviously operates at another level or at least with a different set of assumptions and it's hilarious watching people try and one up him when he's been so consistently right.

Perfect description of Trump's style in the first 10 minutes or so, Adams correctly identifies him as the businessman he is. He makes the largest offer possible to begin with to give him lots of leeway to dial it down and get what he is going for

Basic stuff to people who actually have more interest in politics, economics and history aka the only people who should be allowed to vote

>>134299749

So george bush must be one of the premier intellectuals on the subject of the middle east.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzrJwzYBUkU

>>134290218

10 minutes in and not a fucking thing has been said
just Sam rambling

Scott finally gets to talk at the 10 minute mark

>>134299850
The point is the starting point. Hillary began with a massive lead over everyone, with a large group of voters locked down tight. Trump started with literally no one supporting him, and built himself a stronger core following.

He gained 62mil voters while Hillary probably only gained 10-20mil who weren't already in her camp. If anything she probably lost millions of voters as the election season went on.

>>134298755
They're not irrelevant. They just do not prove he has exceptionally good persuasive abilities relative to previous presidents or candidates.

>>134299676
>Analogies
my bad man

>Adams was correct in calling out the pointlessness of it.
True, Harris effectively filibustered Peterson on his podcast with sinkhole analogies

>>134299252
yeah no kidding. I'm an hour and 40 mins in and it's hard to stomach, but I'll grind it out.

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Reminder. How dumb do you have to be to debate a guy who was predicting Trump in fucking 1990.

>>134299371
>I think he mentions it in his convo with dan dennet on free will
Could you give me a timestamp? It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of his worldview.
> I explained what i meant by what I said.
Can't argue there then
>He's not talking about immigration in general.
But he is. He has stated multiple times, that a country must have secure borders and must control who get's in. What leads you to believe that he would change his position if he wasn't effected personally by uncontrolled immigration?

I mean, if we follow his humanist worldview to their conclusion you could say he's a globalist. But there's a difference between being a naive virtue-signaling lefty and a realistic humanist who understands that for the foreseeable future the west will still be the best.

>>134299484
>ineptitude
Republicans voted someone into the presidency who doesn't have a high school level understanding of how government works. If that alone doesn't scream inept, pushing aside every example of Trump's ineptitude during his presidency, I don't know what does.

>brashness
Do you really what to debate whether or not Trump is brash? haha.

>corruptness
Did you miss the last week?

>>134292547
WHINER

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=5Vc9Gsn5Ees

>>134300132
Again, both Trump and Clinton got the lion's share of their votes, 90%+, as a result of the parties they're in. And Trump was more well-known as a public figure than any other Republican nominee. He did not start from square 0 and he couldn't have run as independent and won. You're being ridiculous.

P.S. The amount of people that Hillary needed to convince we can count on one hand and they're all at the DNC.

>>134295290
Call him what he is: a dysosopher.

>>134300262
>Could you give me a timestamp?
I would have to watch the whole thing again. This happened months ago.

>>134300262
>What leads you to believe that he would change his position if he wasn't effected personally by uncontrolled immigration?
Because he says the problem in europe is unique, and america doesn't have such a problem.

Hard determinism is the final red pill (as someone said). Harris may give a shitlib interpretation of it, but allied with IQ you can easily give a justification of a stratified society.

As a professional philosopher I'm going to drop this bomb in a few years on academia.

Our lack of free-will in an ultimately deserving moral responsibility sense is a huge nail for low IQ ethnic minorities. ((They)) have been in favour of Compatibilism - which is an incoherent BS - for years.

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>>134290335
sam has this area of mastery in which he sounds quite coherent and a very attentive thinker, but his blind spots are glaring

>>134300555
>Republicans voted someone into the presidency who doesn't have a high school level understanding of how government works.
You have nothing to base that claim on. Unless you're into legit mind reading.
>Do you really what to debate whether or not Trump is brash? haha.
The fact that he is brash has nothing to do with you qualifying it as negative, so don't try to frame it that way. I don't think it's a negative, per se, so you're obviously presenting a subjective opinion as 'truth' here. Don't do that.
>Did you miss the last week?
says increasingly nervous man for the 29th time this year

>>134297511
>Trump hasn't effectively persuaded anyone
Classic absurd absolute. You're in cogdis territory my burger friend.

You must realise that he persuaded just enough people, and the right ones to win the election, on the smallest budget, too. Should he have played another game?

Now look at the odds that he overcame. The old TV media stations that reaches the largest audience was against him but he still won. The establishment politicians were against him, even never-Trumper Republicans were against him besides the Democrats of course. He had little support of social figures, movie stars or pop singers, in contrast with Clinton. That is a formidable list of factors all weighing in against him, don't you think? But he won nonetheless.

So how does that work in your head? By what means did Trump win the election? With such a host of adversaries conquered, do you think that it was simply luck? Do you think it was the Russians? Half of the Republican votes is not enough to win, by far. So you need to offer an explanation of how that went if it was not persuasion.

>>134301016
>As a professional philosopher I'm going to drop this bomb in a few years on academia.

>He accepts the notion that his self exists and acts.
>He thinks he doesn't believe in free will

Also Sam Harris is a liar. He regularly uses neuroscience experiements to state the freewill does not exist. There is a famous south korean experiment (much better than Libet) which can predict whether you will push a button on the left and right before you do. Sam says it has a 100% prediction rate, when the truth is it is only 60% (which is basically a guess rate.)

I disbelieve in free-will anyways. However I always found it interesting that he would bias his examples when speaking to the public about experiments on free-will to make his position seem stronger.

As a fellow researcher, the bad faith of his arguments disgusted me

>>134297511
Although I agree most people didn't buy trump- I still don't- your assertion that the only people who voted for him is incorrect on its face.
Hillary lost the black vote because, she isn't black. So are all blacks racist bigots? Don't dems vote dem because dem also?
"Least popular?" Try again. least popular according to the people who hate him.

Again, I don't buy trump HOWEVER he is top tier troll vs the media. He makes me laugh with how many fools get trolled and call him bigot, racist, etc. And the more fools showing their "liberal tolerant open-minded" hate, the more popular he will be.

>>134290218
sam hates trump because he's a zionist

People still committ actions and decisions in a universe without FW. Easy with the straw mans senpai

>>134290218
Am I listening to Sam or Scot? 17 minutes in.

>>134301447
Free will is the ability to choose.

A decision is a choice.
A person makes a choice means free will is true.
Who's making the straw man?

>>134299395
He does like these weird narcoleptic flexy stretchy kinda movements. Like, he'll be sitting on a chair and he'll be bobbing about like some Aspie with hyper-flexible shoulder joints.

>>134299850
>Hillary is almost as good a persuader as Trump since the states that gave him the win was by small margins

Most Democrats vote for a Democrat just as most Republicans vote for a Republican.

Because of this nearly every election is decided by a relatively small voter base.

Clinton was good at convincing Democrats to vote for her, what Trump was good at was convincing some Democrats and independents to vote for him.

Just ask yourself this, how often did you come across a blue collar traditional Republican voter that felt that he should vote for Clinton?

Conversely, you could consider just how many white collar traditional Democrats working jobs such as programming, who felt like voting for Trump because of H1B visas.

>>134301122
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/sanford-questions-trump-constitution-gaffe/index.html

Trump's brashness gives the media stories that make him look bad. This is not the fault of the media, regardless of whether or not you like the fact that he is a brute.

Mueller has Trump by the balls right now.

>>134301018

That ass looks so phenomenally perfect.

>>134290218
Sam is a midwit desu

>>134290218

Recent notable matches:

vs. Peterson
vs. Peterson (pt. 2)
vs. Adams

Sam "The Intelli-Cuck" Harris is 0 - 3.

>>134299828
It wasn't even Adams owning Harris. Harris got a few good shots in, but Harris was his own worst enemy.

>>134294554
does that mean it isn't black peoples fault when they commit crimes?

>>134301856
>vs. Peterson
>vs. Peterson (pt. 2)

Peterson didn't win either of these. Harris is too good at filibustering and Peterson never called him out on what he was doing. the 1st convo between them was probably a win by Harris, but the 2nd one was more of a draw.
Adams let Harris own himself though. Harris probably could've given himself an effective out on a lot of topics, but kept talking himself into a hole when it was unnecessary with Adams

>>134301188
I said Trump didn't show how he is some "master persuader," not that he was not persuasive at all to some people.

Considering Trump supporters had written off "old TV media" long ago aside from Fox News, makes what you say irrelevant. He didn't need to persuade anyone anymore than any Republican has had to persuade others in a traditional media environment that is, I will admit, largely biased against the callousness, anti-intellectualism, and xenophobia associated with Republicans/conservatism.

Trump wasn't a Joe the Plumber who somehow became a presidential candidate. He has been in the public eye for decades and more well-known than any of the other Republican nominees and had been aggressively courting his voters for years. He didn't start from square 0 just because he wasn't a part of the so-called establishment.

He did persuade one group of Republican voters, but he persuaded no one else, ie the other 75%+ of the country that buys his bullshit even less based on approval ratings since his inauguration.

There's just no basis for this "master persuader" claim. What Sam Harris was trying to say, and something I agree with, is that Trump is a caricature of the shyster businessman archetype. But apparently rural Trump voters saw the apprentice and thought that this is how actually successful people behave haha.

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>Trump is a master persuader, let me explain how.. T: Dilbert man
>HRUMPFY DRUMPFY BIGOT HITLER SELFISH TWO SCOOPS DRUMPF UNIVERSITY
>that's all a part of the master persuasion tactic, and you're on cognitive dissonanse, bro
>RUSSIA CYBER WARFARE RUSSIA SELFISH DRUMF TWO SCOOPS PUTIN JOURNALISTS MUH ETHICS
I made it to 70 minutes and i can't take this shit anymore. This asshat is fucking impossible to listen to, and refuses to listen to dilbert man's explanations.

>>134299850
>Basing anyone's persuasive abilities on their political office discounts the fact that people vote for parties and against candidates
Yes and that's why i said "hes good because hes WON" and not "hes good because conservatives voted for him". Its irrelevant to him and to me, who voted for him, its not my argument. My argument that his ability to win despite all odds in itself matters much more than opinions of losers, that he wasn't persuasive for them. He didn't needed you, he didn't want you, he won without you.
Success is the best measurement of talent.

>>134301856
I went into the peterson ones on his side and came out on harris' side

petersons theories felt a bit empty by the end of the second part and I sided more with harris' "this works with anything" argument

the scott adams one was I think close but leaning towards adams, I didn't think harris made much stronger points than outrage, and he seemed completely unable to cope with adams' entire philosophy and worldview which at many points was "ok he's lying but that's the most effective thing to do and we want somebody fighting for us"

sam called moral outrage but he didn't really argue that it wasn't effective and couldn't be, his argument mostly rode on the idea that trump was a bad guy deep down which is something you can't really argue with

>>134297511
Yet he won. You seem to be unable to get over the fact that he was successful, and that it was obvious he would be successful to everyone who could understand what he was doing.

It's been 2 years since Trump began his political career and you're still stuck on that initial knee-jerk reaction

>he's a buffon

Move on man, you sound ridiculous. Sam Harris sounds like a dunce. Stop embarrassing yourselves.

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>>134295817
>Dawkins
>to deny that he is a higher authority on the matter of evolution is just blatant asshurt by christfags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXrYhINutuI

>>134290218
>2 hours and 17 minutes
who has the fucking time?

>>134302726
it basically boils down to TRUMPS A BIG MEANIE HE NOT NICE :(

>>134301293
You missed a word there because I can't see what you're saying? I'll assume you said "your assertion...people who voted for him are bigots."

I didn't call all Trump supporters bigots. If someone was successfully persuaded by Trump, my immediate reaction is that they're either a bigot or so (understandably) desperate to be heard that they were vulnerable to a Trump-like person who disingenuously tried to appeal to them. Otherwise, you support Trump out of pragmatism, party-loyalty, or hatred of Dems/libs and aren't successfully persuaded by Trump's rhetoric.

He is the least popular according to approval ratings, ie how the American people feel about him in aggregate, not just the critics. Every poll has shown a downward trend and historic lows for Trump. There is no way around this.

>>134290218
Harris is impressively narrow minded and bigoted for someone who supposedly a rational empiricist.

>>134302176

Refusing to engage in debate during a debate is a loss.

It's basically realizing you are losing and trying to take your ball and go home.

>>134291775
He mostly talks about what he sees as Trump's toxic character. He uses a lot of talking points echoed in the media, even the 17 intelligence agencies bullshit. It mostly exposes him as a hypocrite because he doesn't seem to hold almost any other politician to the same standard.

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>>134303026
That's what i gathered as well.

>>134290218
>b-b-but muh feelings and muh teenage insecurities

>>134290218
listening now, sam is getting so mad that scott isn't just agreeing with him about anything he doesn't even know what to say lmao

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>>134293285
Liberals are fooled by things like smiles and laughter. Therefore, someone describing plans without laughing or smiling seems threatening and worrisome. They need a societal father or mother to come on screen and hit them with some dopamine and make them feel heard. Therefore, all popular liberals are truth tellers and fighters, but all republicans are evil lying manipulators and psychopaths.

>>134292414
>He doesn't listen to podcasts whilst doing work or playing vidya
Faggot

>>134302847
You should listen to Peterson's arguments more fully than in those podcasts. They really didn't do his ideas justice. This interview for instance is great because he doesn't talk about any of the SJW stuff since it was before that happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis

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>the absolute state of Harrisfags in this thread
You got wrecked by a comic strip hypnotist with fuck you money.

>>134302736
>against all odds
>a small loan of 1 million dollars

This is what Trump supporters actually believe lmao. If your about someone succeeding with the odds stacked against them, you must be an Obama supporter, right?

>>134303082
it's one of the first times he's actually butted heads with a well spoken trump supporter-- which is rare not because they don't exist but instead because most people won't dare to admit to supporting trump since right now it's social suicide in many places

living in london right now I'm expected to laugh at trump jokes and americans are so stupid jokes every single day because the sentiment is so overwhelmingly anti american and anti trump that it's simply not worth going out on a limb and making myself the enemy of all my coworkers and friends by going against the narrative. I don't agree with them but it doesn't matter to me enough to hang myself

so harris starts talking to somebody who is wealthy enough to not really care about his social reputation in his support of trump, and he's simply not used to having to argue against the ideas he's used to having people automatically agree with like that trump is an idiot buffoon of a conman who is maybe the next hitler and out for himself. this frustrated him and got him emotional because he just wasn't used to it from a well spoken individual

the next time he runs into somebody he'll be much better at it, and I think if adams does another podcast with harris it would be ten times as good and both would be better at talking to each other

>>134303208
>He uses a lot of talking points echoed in the media

I've only listened to about half of it and so far his entire position on Trump is clearly a product of leftist media propaganda. A few minutes of internet searches provides counter evidence which blows away his claims. This entire exchange reveals Harris as nothing more than an stereotypical leftist pseudo-intellectual. The way Adams calls out his clearly bullshit opinions is great.

>>134302983
You're posting on 4 chan nigger. Man usually I wouldn't say this, but I'm halfway through and Sam gets btfo hard. I mean it's embarrassing. At one point Scott says "can you just admit that I won?"
Harris has no logical argument and his jewish verbal tricks of using words like "alacrity" and measured pacing of speech that makes him sound like an "academic" fall completely flat by persuasion man dominating him with his higher IQ

>>134301580
>Actually links CNN
Shareblue hires some real intellectuals

>>134303184
>Refusing to engage in debate during a debate is a loss.

Meh, filibustering might not be the correct word, Harris just kept throwing out so many hypothetical's that Peterson couldn't shut down or talk his way out of. He effectively eroded and stopped Peterson's argument.

>>134290218

Did sam drink softener and took sleep pills excessively as he was younger? He sounds like he is falling a sleep any moment even if he is "triggered" I cant listen to this...

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>>134293293
Jesus I love Scott. I'll watch this whole thing later today.

>>134303421
>I think if adams does another podcast with harris it would be ten times as good and both would be better at talking to each other

I disagree. I'm only at 1:16 in this discussion, but Harris has been completely unhinged during the entirety of it so far. I doubt he has the capacity to learn from this. The biases he's showing are too strong.

>>134301932
And now Harris is basically complaining that Trump isn't speaking like a coastal liberal in order to PERSUADE his ilk. He's so dense as to not see the shallowness of his own please--saying how "easy it would be" to just spout off progressive platitudes to persuade the left 50% of the country. Despite the fact that such an approach wouldn't convince more than a few % of leftists, it would just be another "con" accordering to Sam, even though he's asking for it.

>>134303659
The problem is Trump being a failure is now a critical supporting pillar in Sam's pride, he's no longer impartial. He can't be, it's gotten way too personal now, which is why you see him regurgitate CNN headlines which their own anchors admit are mostly bullshit when they think they are off camera.

>>134301560
Trump won because Hillary convinced a lot of Democrats to just not vote. Trump's message certainly appealed to some blue-collar Dems in the Rust Belt, but that was Hillary's loss more than Trump's win.

>Conversely, you could consider just how many white collar traditional Democrats working jobs such as programming, who felt like voting for Trump because of H1B visas.
I would consider it, but there is no reason to believe what you're claiming exists on any more than an anecdotal level.

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>>134302895
>the entire crowd just laughing at Dawkins' stupidity and base level understanding of biology.

>>134303445
Sam Harris got BTFO'd by his lack of actual fucking arguments. He has nothing but projection, cognitive dissonance, and muh' lack of ethics. The man fucking unironically pulls the Hitler card, at which point Dilbert man just laughs it off with "can we agree i won?"

>>134303659
>I'm only at 1:16 in this discussion
You haven't even gotten to the worst segment; when they start talking about climate change. Adams convinces Harris that everything Trump is doing on climate change makes sense, but Harris still hates it because Trump is a stupid meanie. I'm not being hyperbolic

I just love that Sam got btfo. He is such a pretentious prick. Who the fuck makes a podcast called "Waking up With Sam Harris?" PHD man blown the fuck out by Dilbert.

>>134303388
You don't even seem to know what "odds" are. Odds means probabilities, not financial resources.
If somebody said to you that Donald Trump will be American president 2 years ago, you would've laughed in their face as every other person including me. What he did was improbable, borderline fantastical. That what "against all odds" means.

>>134303388
>against all odds
>Obama
Stop it. Obama was propped up by major corporate donors, the DNC mafia and the entirety of mainstream media. Nobody had an easier road to the WH than Obama.

>>134303659
He's just an anti-Islam leftist, aka. a diaspora Jew. I trace my first real skepticism of Harris' motives a few years back when he had some major disagreements with Jonathan Haidt (The Righteous Mind) as Haidt tore apart Harris' pretense at developing a secular moral science. Haidt, who was also a liberal, has gone on to become one of the strongest voices against campus SJW culture. The fact that he and Harris sparred so hard a few years back has an added level of depth in light of the subsequent ideological progressions (or lack thereof) in my opinion.

>>134303360
I know petersons ideas. I find them both interesting and persuasive. there's certainly a kernel of truth to them and I think it's an interesting way of looking at religion. I've seen and read his material and even attended a lecture of his while I was in toronto before he blew up. I did undergrad at uoft which is more sjw than anybody who isn't from there or ubc can possibly realize

but coming out of harris vs peterson I felt less convinced of petersons ideas and I thought harris made stronger points overall. I still think peterson has a lot of interesting things to say but overall harris' worldview was stronger and more robust to not only our civilization but many other civilizations. I think peterson does a great job of explaining the inherent virtues of some modern beneficial religions but his theories break down when it's shown how they also justify some terrible cultural and religious practices, especially historical ones, which harris did a fine job of laying the groundwork for. in the end peterson just didn't do as good of a job explaining the areas where his theories failed and I no longer find myself as persuaded by him as I once was

>>134303659
well, I've been following harris for well over 10 years now and I give him more credit than most people here do. he absolutely let himself become emotional and unhinged but his virtue is that over time he overpowers that reaction and is able to come to terms with things rationally much better than almost all people are able to. I think that he will reflect very heavily on this podcast and is able to realize areas where his own arguments are weak and that can certainly bring him to a different position than he currently holds. not only will he argue different next time, he will also allow himself to change his mind. harris has done this a huge amount in the past and it's a specific point that I admire him for. a second part to this would be very good I think

>>134302551
>I said Trump didn't show how he is some "master persuader," not that he was not persuasive at all to some people.
Do you even know what Scott Adam's claim is of what a master persuader is? Do you think that Scott's claim is that a master persuader will persuade everyone in hearing range? That may be your own definition, but in that case you're not arguing against Scott's definition and hallucinating that you are.

>Considering Trump supporters had written off "old TV media" long ago aside from Fox News, makes what you say irrelevant. He didn't need to persuade anyone anymore than any Republican has had to persuade others in a traditional media environment that is, I will admit, largely biased against the callousness, anti-intellectualism, and xenophobia associated with Republicans/conservatism.
Yes, caring about justice, safety, job outsourcing and doing good to your own kind first is something that only attracts mentally ill cromags. In no way a Democrat can ever want a politician that is not owned by large coorporation. You just try to rephrase Trumps good things through the tired Hitler filter in order to make your argument seem plausible. But that's your filter that you project on everyone else.

(continued)

>>134303879
>The man fucking unironically pulls the Hitler card, at which point Dilbert man just laughs it off with "can we agree i won?"
I don't even think that Harris's worst part

>>134304162
>He did persuade one group of Republican voters,
Yes he persuaded Republicans - like I said, he had to conquer the Republican party as as well in the primaries.
>but he persuaded no one else
I remember some states turning red unexpectedly, which came as a surprise. Again an absurd absolute.

>But apparently rural Trump voters saw the apprentice and thought that this is how actually successful people behave haha.
Mind reading again. Le Trump voters are rural and dumb meme.

>Everyone who voted for Trump was a buffoon anyways, he didn't convince anyone else
Because you resort to name-calling and denigrating Trump supporters, you cannot see what is happening. It's is a short circuit in your own mind that you have to keep alive as 'alternative explanation' of what is happening. First step is trying to argue by not framing his voters as mentally ill psychopaths.

(fin)

>>134290218
First time I've listened to a Sam podcast

He sounds pretty fucking stupid

Sam really lost it, was getting triggered

>>134303824
>The problem is Trump being a failure is now a critical supporting pillar in Sam's pride... it's gotten way too personal now

It's more than that. Harris, like many leftist academics in the U.S., is deeply bigoted against real American culture. A huge part of Trump's appeal for voters is that he evidences that culture in his speech patterns and mannerisms. Forget the claims of racism and sexism, what sets the lefts' teeth on edge where trump is concerned is simply his Americanism. This is why they portray his as crazy, stupid, and evil, because that's how they see the American people.

Adams calls Harris on this very early, when he points out that Sam admitted is was Trump's manner and speech which upset him, rather than simply the content of his claims. This is why so much of Harris's rhetoric is focused on attacking Trump's character rather than his policies. What makes this personal for Harris is the deeply rooted nature of his hatred against Americans. He simply can't stand having an American in charge of the country again.

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>>134292706
i love hitchens. dawkins is great. i wish dennet was my grandpa. i never understood harris' inclusion with the other three.

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>>134303848
>there are people who unironically believe this

Trump won because nearly 300,000 Democrats in Pennsylvania that voted for Obama switched parties to the Republicans in order to vote for Trump in the primaries. Trump won the election, saying otherwise ignores the massive gains he had in states like Florida, Pennsylvania and North Carolina when compared with candidates like Romney and McCain.

In fact here's a fun little image for you that basically demonstrates the total collapse of the Hillary campaign and the victory of Trump.

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this guy is a deranged, sociopathic narcissist

sam harris vs. roald drumpft would be a top 10 anime battle

>>134304353
How do I slay pussy like Dilbert man?

>>134304103
>I trace my first real skepticism of Harris' motives a few years back when he had some major disagreements with Jonathan Haidt

That started it for me too, but his rants against Trump have driven home for me that a huge part of his personality is a deeply rooted anti-Americanism.

>>134303572

I guess that is where we disagree.

I felt Peterson was dealing well with Harris' hypothetical's which is why Harris had to keep presenting new one's.

Basically, I felt he was moving the goal posts constantly.

>>134304408
read his books

>>134297511
>dude polls lmao

It's funny because those polls you cite pretty much just show that Democrats are overwhelmingly salty about Trump, whereas everyone else is fine with him.

>>134303982
If someone told you a black junior senator would be president in 2006, every other person would have laughed at you harder.

No, a "billionaire" who has been in the media spotlight for 3 decades and had been courting his voters for years before he ran becoming president is not as improbable as you seem to think. You seem to forget that an actor became president of the United States and billionaires have involved themselves in political elections before. Yes, I certainly would have laughed at a caricature of the "evil businessman" archetype becoming president, not because it was so improbable based on a look at the facts. It's because a TV character becoming president just sounds so ridiculous. Trump's odds at becoming president have been, from birth, higher than 99% of the population.

>>134304128
>not only will he argue different next time, he will also allow himself to change his mind. harris has done this a huge amount in the past and it's a specific point that I admire him for

I'd like to believe that, but the positions he's taken (Trump is bad at business, Trump is cheat, Trump is a sexual predator) are so counterfactual that if he was going to be persuaded by evidence and argument, then he would already have cast those positions aside prior to this discussion. I was a fan of Harris years ago, but I came see many of his positions as driven by cultural bigotry. His past confrontations with other intelligent interlocutors like Johnathan Haidt and Jordan Peterson, revealed a profound lack of mental flexibility; an unwillingness to accept evidence or conceptualize arguments which are contrary to his position.

>>134304658
>If someone told you a black junior senator would be president in 2006,
that's empirically wrong. People were talking about Obama running after his 04 DNC speech

>>134303848
Trump got more votes than any Republican in history, and more legal votes than any candidate in history (minus Obama's 2008 ACORN victory)

>>134304658
>dude like black people are so oppressed

Hello white boi. The funny thing about white democrats is that you still think you're in charge of your own party. You aren't. The Democrats are a black party now, so you'd better lube up your pretty pink asshole and shut the fuck up when your black masters are talking.

>>134304658
>higher than 99% of the population.
i.e. higher than 0.

But we're talking about odds relative to his competition: Hillary, jeb, etc.

>>134295697
this. atheists literally accept a 3000 year old religious text as the basis for the establishment of an apartheid state
fucking retard.

>>134299252
>Harris is bluepilled as fuck. Holy fuck. He's literally repeating bullshit MSM headlines and muh Russia "hacking the election"

This. First he whined how Trump accused about wiretapping without evidence and right after that shouts muh Russia.

>Russia hacked election
How exactly? Yes, all countries hack but how Russia helped Trump here by hacking? No evidence.

I didn't know Sam is this retard.

>>134304408
Become filthy rich and a hypnotist.

>>134290218

> two hours and seventeen minutes

It's worth a listen

>>134304735
He's still salty about Taleb shitting down his throat at some conference

>>134297511
kek, he outsmarted the most expensive run for presidency in US history on his own, which had the entire media paid and bought for, while spending the least.

He grabbed multiple areas that voted for Obama last time around, are you really this retarded and mad that you want to argue the election still? Jesus fucking christ you are one hell of a pathetic fag, no wonder the left is destroying themselves still, YOU ARE STILL CRYING BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP PUSHED YOUR SHIT IN HARDER THAN YOUR DADDY DID.

Trump won, get over it already.

>>134304856
WHAT A POAST!!!

>>134290218
I didn't know shit about sam harris, but I've watched some of the podcast and he just irrationally hates Trump no matter what, it's to the point of insanity
>muh Trump university
>muh Trump is a conartist
>muh Trump is a shit persuader while also being a conartist
>Trump is the the worst persuader in my eyes, he didn't persaude me
If Trump persuaded this guy sam harris he would've fucking lost cause he's such an insane fucking moron

>>134303362
>You got wrecked
you? Is Sam Harris in this thread or what?

>>134304353

That guy has banged some serious hooker pussy, hasn't he?

>>134304191
>Yes he persuaded Republicans - like I said, he had to conquer the Republican party as as well in the primaries.
Which was, again, strategic and based on courting one kind of Republican voter, not based on him being so persuasive to Republicans at large. Trump benefited from the fact that he was more well-known and stuck out in a group of nominees that was too damn large . Most Republicans didn't want Trump to be the nominee. For those that didn't, he wasn't even their second or third choice in many cases. His likability ratings among conservatives was horrible. At the point he became the nominee, it was a matter of Republican vs. Democrat. Voting for him did not reflect a belief in his message as much as it reflected a preference for the Republican agenda.

>>134304658
Objectively false. Nobody laughed when Obama run for it, nobody said he had 0 chance of winning, media was in full support mode.
Point about 99% of the population is a complete non sequitur. .

>>134304658
>a TV character becoming president just sounds so ridiculous.
Yes, it did sound implausible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp1NsHf_BWI
But he won against the odds. Which you cannot explain away by saying that it was only callous, anti-intellectual, xenophobic republicans responsible for that.

>>134304658
>Trump's odds at becoming president have been, from birth, higher than 99% of the population.
We're soon going to see an even more succesful businessman of Facebook fame run for president. His odds are > 99% of the population too. But watch how he will fail because a beta male will never persuade enough voters, I predict he wouldn't even convince his main audience, the WhiteLeft on the good side of history to vote for him. My point: that increased odd doesn't matter.

>>134290218
CNN sucks.

>>134304413
>but his rants against Trump have driven home for me that a huge part of his personality is a deeply rooted anti-Americanism.

Dude, I tend to argue in favor of him (haven't heard this podcast yet so no comment) and he keeps getting the exact opposite accusation leveled against him by (far) leftists all the time. That he's too blindly pro-American, an American imperialist who tries his best to justify the actions of the US govt. etc. Are you basing this off of his Trump rants alone?

>>134305285
>We're soon going to see an even more succesful businessman of Facebook fame run for president. His odds are > 99% of the population too. But watch how he will fail because a beta male will never persuade enough voters, I predict he wouldn't even convince his main audience, the WhiteLeft on the good side of history to vote for him.

Yeah, I don't expect he'll even make it halfway through the primary.

>>134305244
Yes, that happened and it would not have won the race. But then this happened too
>>134304380

>>134290218

from 1hour30 and onwards is nothing but Sam Harris having insane cognitive dissonance and acting like he's a CNN anchor. I had no idea he was this bad nowadays.

>>134304380
Elliot County was a backlash against Hillary over Bernie.

>>134290218
If you filter out all ethical, moral and legal wrong doings, the yeah, Trump is persuasive

something I wish adams had touched on was the fact that despite what everybody on the left is saying, that america is doing amazing in almost every way right now- except on things like unity and political discourse which is equally or more the fault of people on the left to try and come together and end the narrative of the next hitler they've been pushing for two years.

yea the economy is doing great. the us is going to meet the paris accord without needing to sign it and give away money. usd is booming right now. jobs are flocking to the states. isis is a shadow of what it was. the budget is looking better than it has in years. and so many other things. america is on the rise in a way it hasn't been and here's a president who is obviously not scared to talk about pretty much every single issue. not only that, but he's absolutely willing to say unpopular things in order to go the right direction

who took it on the chin to turn down the paris accord? trump took it. after he refused basically the entire world turned on him as if he was the sole cause of climate change. america reaps the benefit of avoiding the deal and americans can have their cake too by saying they don't support the president even though they get all the benefit with no cost. it's always the same for him. he's almost a pariah now. doing things that need to be done but nobody wants to dare suggest. america is booming and the world hates him with a burning passion and envious eyes

>>134304735
well I doubt we can argue about it productively. all I can say is give him some time. I can't promise he comes around but I suspect he will, especially after a few more years of trump as president and america's rise

>>134292414

I anxiously await the day someone teaches Sam the meaning of Brevity.

>>134303208
He uses a lot of quote unquote "strong arguments" that make him sound "smart" but have no substance. He did the same to Jordan Peterson, twice, he just kept associating religious beliefs with science, even if Jordan told him multiple times it had nothing to do with it.

>>134290218
Hahaha, you're fucking kidding me. Fuck Sam Harris, but he did not lose that exchange.

Sam Harris really is a fool

>>134304856
Skip the first 10 minutes (intro is that long) then stop at 40 minutes because he has won at that point.

>>134305441
>If you filter out all ethical, moral and legal wrong doings
So, Clinton was a bad president because he cheated on his wife?

>>134305474
>america is doing amazing in almost every way right now- except on things like unity and political discourse
He did kinda touch on it. He told Harris that the economy was rolling along and it looks like we are closing in on ISIS, and then Harris comes back and says that he knows Trump is bad because more people are talking about politics

>>134290218
I'm halfway through the video and this harriss guy literally can't comprehend what he's saying, he just pivots to 'I KNOW HE'S NOT SERIOUS BUT IT'S SERIOUS FUCK YOU"

>>134295981
Tell me a quote where Trump has purposely misled the people through fake news.
>Inb4 7/11

>>134305474
>america is doing amazing in almost every way right now
Because we've avoided Trump and the Republican's attempts to undo the Obama-era policies that put us in a good position in the first place.

>>134305383
He's only in favor of American to the extent that he thinks its power can be used as a blunt instrument to impose his strident progressive materialist ethics on the world. He actually went on a totally non self-aware diatribe in this podcast about how we're the "good guys", and that's why it's okay for us to subvert foreign nations, but why it's evil when they do it to us. He's a fucking pseudo-religious manichean progressive who happens to hate Islam because he's a Jew. Christopher Hitchens was the same way. It's just dialectical materialism in different clothing, and the belief that we're going to remake the world in our image under one glorious system for all of mankind in the name of science, rationality, universal human brotherhood, and equality, but we're totally not Marxists...nope, definitely not Marxists.

>>134305698
Cheating on his wife did damage his presidency, so kinda

>>134305769
Which attempts are you referring to?

>>134302983
get the fuck off 4chan then busy man.

>>134305982
I just don't see why you and other Harris fans keep connecting things that don't have to be connected. Why does persuasion necessitate your standard of ethics?

>>134305383
>he's too blindly pro-American, an American imperialist who tries his best to justify the actions of the US govt. etc. Are you basing this off of his Trump rants alone

No, I also get it from his anti-christian rhetoric.

There's a subtle distinction here that you need to grasp if you are going to understand American politics: The United States is not America. The United States, which Harris supports, is a geopolitical entity embodied by our federal government. America, which Harris opposes, is a cultural entity embodied by our people; Real (White Protestant) Americans. You should take note that since Reagan American conservatives have portrayed themselves as opposed to the empowerment of the Federal government. In fact, one could argue that for southern conservatives that opposition has been in place since reconstruction in the 19th century. This is because Real Americans see the federal government as a threat to their culture and way of life. We had a brief hiatus in that tension during the New Deal and WW2 eras, but cultural confidence in the Federal government collapsed as a consequence of the enforced secularization of the government imposed via judicial fiat in the 70s.

The far left attacks Harris for his support of globalist/imperialist government policies, not for his attacks on American culture. His position is not that of the moderate caught between two extremes on one issue. rather he is attacked from all sides because both sides oppose some policies of a government Harris largely supports.

I hope dzii doesnt own any firearms because that guy is one step away from declaring CNN the prophet and NYT the koran.

>>134305965
I agree with him that disposing of regimes that are depriving people of happiness is a good thing and imposing regimes that make people unhappy is a bad thing. If we subvert north Korea and give them a better option, that's a good thing. If north Korea subverts us and imposes their form of government on us, that's a bad thing. Not because we are we and they are they, but because certain forms of government are more conducive to human well-being than others.

>happens to hate Islam because he's a Jew.
Citation needed. I've heard his arguments against Islam and none of them are "because I'm a jew". Arguments stand on their own merit and if you're gonna go against his stance then you'll have to address his arguments, I agree with most of his arguments against Islam. Even if it turns out he doesn't believe in them himself and it's literally just tribalism (his father/mother or w/e was Jewish) then his arguments would still stand on their own and be valid. Same thing goes for the Trump shit, I've dismissed a lot of his arguments against Trump because they're just not solid enough, others I've accepted.

Marxists? Afaik neither of them were class warriors who had a problem with capitalism and wanted an overthrow of the system and strict regulations and controls in place to maintain social order. They were all about the free market way of doing things as far as I know.

>>134306465
Okay lol. There's no way I'd want "my people" to be deluded into believing in nonsense for no good reason, I'd consider that on its own anti-"mypeopleism".

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fucksake if you want a real laugh read the comments, le intellectual fedora tippers with encyclopidia in hand fannning Sams balls and trying their hardest to sound like him. SAD!

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>>134298159
The final redpill here is that "free will" is a Jewish trick. It was invented as a pretext for punishment.

So you're a rabbi in like 500 BC. You have your revelation from God to preach to the normie jews. You are selling them a worldview. This worldview's axioms are:

1. God has revealed the truth on all important matters
2. If you do what God says is right, you will be rewarded

If these are true, why would anyone ever act up? They wouldn't! You know what's true, you know what's beneficial for you, you're set. Any acting up becomes an implicit rejection of the whole system, i.e. disobedience to the rabbis. This will not do. So how to explain misbehavior by nominal believers?

Freedom! That is: the absence of reasons. Every person has a little kernel of self-determination within him that does things for no reason at all. This spiritual freedom nugget either loves God and obeys and hates God and sins. And it always lets the priest stop explaining!

"Why did Shlomo do x?"

"I dunno, the guy's free. Definitely a problem with him though, not my shitty revelation."

P.S. Swap "science" for "revelation" and "hate" for "sin" and you have mainstream thought in the Current Year. How little changes...same old Pharisee crap.

>>134304408
he wrote a book - Search for his girlfriend on instagram too.

>>134300261
>Soviet Dog
Even Adams predicted Russian conspariacy

>>134306556
>North Korea
Stop picking the low hanging fruit.

I want YOUR evidence that Jeffersonian liberal democracy would produce more happiness and well-being in Russia than the kind of system that they have organically returned to for pretty much their entire existence as a nation, or even a proto-nation. Where's YOUR evidence that China's current system could be beneficially usurped by a wester-lead progressive coup, and that such a change wouldn't ultimately destroy the Chinese nation.

Read some Burke, and meditate of the idea of Darwinian evolution of social instutition, and then rethink your mystical faith in the ability of us "good goys" to fix everyone else's society by simply importing out own evolved social institutions. Better yet, watch some Star Trek and meditate on the Prime Directive.

Progressives are as insufferable as Evangelical Christians, increasingly even moreso

>>134305769
there's really no way to argue with this. you can always find a way to blame either the person in power or the person before when it comes to economic policy. and you've done it in a way that is so general and without substance it's pointless to even engage you. and that's nothing to say with the obvious example I explicitly gave and you ignored which is the paris accord, something obama was in full support of and that was rejected by trump to the benefit of the american people. he's done this everywhere and the usd reflects it, more than it ever did under obama

>the fact that so much people are talking about politics right now is one of the reasons why Trumps lies are bad
>if things were good we wouldn't be talking about politics
this fucking guy, do people actually look up to him for reason cause he's a fucking moron

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It's pretty amazing how close minded Sam actually is

>>134293982
a LOT of people on the left suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect

>>134307165
people on reddit defended that and believe that Harris won

>>134296996
See, I guess:
>>134302895

/perhaps/ Dawkins is out-of-date on weird acid-breathing (or whatever) thermal vent bacteria. It looks like he's probably wrong, but the video ends before Venter seals the deal. People are laughing, though, partly because of leftover tension of the booming noises. And because of Dawkins' uncertainty at Venter's information.

>>134307165
>do people actually look up to him
There's like a whole movement dedicated to worship of Harris and his various clones. Look up the skeptic or transhumanist community on the internet. It's like scientology for kids who were bullied in high school.

>>134307612
gimme a link, I wanna see doublethink and salt

>>134294816
sounds like you need to watch Dark City.
The entire plot of the movie is about free-will, and why some people under certain stimuli turn evil, and why others under the EXACT SAME stimuli don't turn out evil.
If free-will doesn't exist, then everyone would react the same way, every time, to certain stimuli.
They don't. Therefore, free-will exists.

>>134293070
whats up destiny :^)

>>134306986
I didn't pick low-hanging fruit. I picked a clear example. Where have I argued in favor of overthrowing either of those countries? Where has he?

The problem with lack of freedom of speech and strong authoritarianism is that we can't really know or measure how they like their way of living as compared to other ones. They can't really speak out against it. If we look at quality of life measures, the happiness index or most other measures those countries will score relatively bad. Another way to measure it could be the amount of people who have moved away from there and are not moving back/don't want to move back. I don't know, you tell me a better measure and why and then we can look at it.

>>134307165
Ironically he's right. When times are good, voter participation tends to drop.

>>134307882
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/6obxat/did_sam_harris_change_his_mind/
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/6ocpc6/scott_adams_trump_lies_but_its_okay_because_his/
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/6odz43/the_donald_reacts_to_sam_harris_getting_triggered/
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/6o6v2s/87_triggered/

Harris just changed the subject whenever he was pinned down on anything. He also has a very annoying habit of making analogies that don't follow the original argument to make his case. "What ifs" aren't arguments and it bothers me Sam relied on them so heavily. Also, he already had his mind made up about hating trump so I don't know why he even had Adams on if he was just going to instinctively disagree about everything.

>>134297511
Adderall kicked in just in time for this thread eh? I admire the effort.

>>134306810
She'd be perfect if she had better fake boobs

>>134294024
Here's a quote by him from his book the "End of Faith" on Judaism

The gravity of Jewish suffering over the ages, culminating in the Holocaust, makes it almost impossible to entertain any suggestion that Jews might have brought their troubles upon themselves. This is, however, in a rather narrow sense, the truth. […] the ideology of Judaism remains a lightning rod for intolerance to this day. […] Jews, insofar as they are religious, believe that they are bearers of a unique covenant with God. As a consequence, they have spent the last two thousand years collaborating with those who see them as different by seeing themselves as irretrievably so. Judaism is as intrinsically divisive, as ridiculous in its literalism, and as at odds with the civilizing insights of modernity as any other religion. Jewish settlers, by exercising their "freedom of belief" on contested land, are now one of the principal obstacles to peace in the Middle East.

>>134308027
unironically you're equating correlation with causation, a rise in voter participation might coincide with worse times but it's not necessarily tied to it

>>134304032
But but but he was 1/2 black.

>>134308055

That sub-reddit is pathetic. I've never seen a bigger group of pseudo-intellectual boot-lickers outside of a Marxist group.

>>134308294
I remember this. Extremely redpilled except for "insofar as they are religious". I was a big fan of Harris in my "muh atheism" past, but these days his Jewishness is seeping out way too much

>>134291775
>I'm not going to sit through 2+ hours of this, point to me where the fun part is?

It's two hours of the host trying every topic he can think of to attack Trump and Scott shooting down every one brilliantly.

>>134308380
No, Harris is equating correlation with causation. I'm just observing the correlation.

>>134308055
>I'm only 20 minutes into this podcast but fuck Scott Adams, he's everything wrong with humans and Harris isn't giving him enough push back.
>b-but the two movies argument is also an analogy
top kek

>>134307973
>Where has he?
1:04:30
>Where have I
You defended the principle, right after I rejected it.

>you tell me a better measure
Firstly, I don't believe you can prevent and/or or remedy all social, economic, biological, or cultural oscillations and peculiarities simply by being the "right" governmental system, or somehow unilaterally resubscribing to an entirely new civilizational ethos conveniently offered by the "good guys" of the planet. So I reject the very notion of, westerners in particular, being busybody crusaders for perpetual unidirectional "progress".

Also, I think that people WITHIN a society are best positioned to make qualitative judgments about the status of their lives, and that they chose the basis for comparison, not me, and not me referencing my own personal utopia, or my own nation's preferences. And if my quantitative judgments conflict with the self-reported qualitative judgments of the people who actually have to live in the system that I'm apt to criticize, then to hell with my quantitative assessment.

Either way, I don't think Chinese people have any good reason to assume that the imposition of wester-style democracy would make their lives any better qualitatively or quantitatively. You may think so, and if you do, it's probably because you're French, and not Chinese, and experience life in fundamentally different ways that you take for granted and deny because you probably believe in the universality of the human experience, again, because you're probably a western universalist.

>>134308055
it basically comes to if you irrationally hates Trump or not
>Scott adams defending trump equals bad
>cites maybe contradictory things he said
>doesn't notice sam harris is a fucking moron and said worse things
they didnt even understand what Scott meant when he said emotions mattered more over logic

>>134294587
No, he is not. Because to be an authority on atheism, you have to be capable of refuting the bulk of argumentation for theism. Dawkins is completely incapable of this, as Feser showed clearly. Sure, he can understand evolution. But that is merely scratching the surface of atheism as a belief-non-belief system.

>>134308922
They don't even recognize that
>Trump is bad, because people are talking about politics more
is inane

Don't understand the "OMG TRUMP IS A LIAR" thing. What has he lied about? If we are talkin about numbers being inflated or something that's such a moot point. Is there something insane he's lied about or something? I dunno, like Obama and how you can keep your doctor and plan?

>>134308751
>I'm just observing the correlation.
and you agreed with him, but the fact that people might talk more about politics for other reasons than times being bad still stands

>>134298408

Could you be any more retarded?

>>134309346
my guess is small things like he had more people at his inauguration, stuff that literally doesn't matter

>>134292831
If you listened to the whole cast, you may recall the part where Scott says that he considers himself ultra liberal.

Later, he mentions that Trump is actually bringing the far right more towards the center, and he does this by starting out with a wild far right proposal such as, "ban all Muslims from coming to the US". This wild, hyperbolic first hand is intended to excite the base, but Trump slowly and eventually rolls back to something more moderate. Same with immigration.

Scott seems to suggest that Trump's not implamenting wild conservative ideas but more moderate ones that work on a pragmatic level - Stock market is up, illegal immigration is down, job growth is back on track. So yeah, I think he is pro Trump.

>>134291503
Thank you for the insight ;)

>>134309346
remember how leftists always project

all this trump hysteria is about the blatantly corrupt dems that were outed by wikileaks

>>134304793
Ayo hol up!
So you be sayin.....
WE

>>134290218
Thanks for posting this, I would have missed it otherwise.

>>134309597
is this your first time seeing Scott adams, he practically praising Trump like everyday, since the election

>>134308916
I defended the idea that some regimes, such as the north Korean ones would be better undone. You took this to say "coups overturning Russia/China", I didn't.

>Firstly, I don't believe you can prevent and/or or remedy all social, economic, biological, or cultural oscillations and peculiarities
#notall, how about some? How about Poland doing better now than when it was ballgripped by the Soviet Union?

>So I reject the very notion of, westerners in particular, being busybody crusaders for perpetual unidirectional "progress".
I, for the most part, agree. Discussing ideas and what's better or worse is 100% fine though.

>Also, I think that people WITHIN a society are best positioned to make qualitative judgments about the status of their lives, and that they chose the basis for comparison, not me, and not me referencing my own personal utopia, or my own nation's preferences. And if my quantitative judgments conflict with the self-reported qualitative judgments of the people who actually have to live in the system that I'm apt to criticize, then to hell with my quantitative assessment.
Can you account for them being honest? How many north Koreans were actually crying when Kim Jong-Il died, how many just feigned tears? How right are the brainwashed people born into NK concentration camps who believe they are scum deserving of all the punishments the guards dish out to them? If you agree they aren't, then you agree we cannot always just take someone's word for it. I'd extent this to women and other minorities trapped in majority muslim societies for example. A clearer measure was the one I proposed, how much they like their old society as compared to their new one (have they moved) or some similar measure. Ideally we'd just be able to directly measure enjoyment through brain scans or something and remove all of the clutter. Basically, what's your reasoning when taking only their words into account? You can't know what's better having not tried it.

>>134290335
(((atheist)))

>>134290218
>oooook trumpkins...
at least he recognizes that he loves his bubble

>>134307816
It's an odd example and not quite convincing of anything. There is a disruption and the question he asks seems stitched together as he rebounds.

Either way, I'm not seeing any sort of stint against his credibility. Venter is claiming that life could have had multiple origins due to very distinct genetic differences in rare thermal vent bacteria and Dawken's seem skeptical and rightfully so since most of the world bio-mass is shown to have had a common ancestry. This is all in fact more of a question regarding Abiogenesis, the origin of life, and not evolution.

>>134308916
>Either way, I don't think Chinese people have any good reason to assume that the imposition of wester-style democracy would make their lives any better qualitatively or quantitatively. You may think so, and if you do, it's probably because you're French, and not Chinese, and experience life in fundamentally different ways that you take for granted and deny because you probably believe in the universality of the human experience, again, because you're probably a western universalist.
No, I think these things are really tricky. I think someone born in North Korea is molded/shaped to enjoy the kind of environment North Korea is. Everything's handed to you by the government, you know exactly what to expect, life is "simple" in some sense, you're accustomed to the norms and customs etc etc. I mean, there have been people who have escaped BACK into North Korea. Despite this, I don't believe it's a society more conducive to human well-being than, say, Finland. That measure just isn't good enough. So I wouldn't say yes or no either way, I'd say we'd need a better measure.

PS. If you're going to say low-hanging fruit, then you're saying "yes, this holds true for some societal structures/forms of government but not Russia and China's in particular", then that's okay. I'm not specifically arguing against these two but just the principle.

sam harris is so fucking boring what the hell

>His father came from a Quaker background and his mother is a secular Jew.[13]
Who would've guessed, Sam Harris the activist who pushes atheism is a jew.

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>>134302551

>There's just no basis for this "master persuader" claim.

Except there is. There isn't a single other human being I can think of who could have done what Trump did with the full force of the MSM, establishment politicians and (((them))) against him.

If Trump wasn't some sort of master wizard of persuasion, he would have been defeated long, long ago by the sheer weight of the media itself... and instead he's woken a lot of people up to their bullshit and made them look like absolute clowns. He's turned their energy against them, and the legacy media is now in deep, deep trouble.

Trump is no ordinary man or persuader. He is simply a god of persuasion. Just because YOU personally weren't persuaded by him does not mean that this isn't true.

Also, just because one is good at persuasion does NOT mean that they are necessarily good people. Admitting that someone is a good persuader doesn't mean that you think they are smarter, wiser or more fit for the job.
It simply means that they were able to get enough people to their side even with all of the odds stacked against them. You can hate Trump but still see him for the persuasion wizard he is.

>>134309814
He literally is a jewish athiest.

>>134310384
>muh identity politics
Who cares?

>>134303040
And since when does polls matter?

>>134310464
>pointing out the correlation between kikes and people who push destructive ideologies is bad

>>134294935
>Harris: "I think Trump is a terrible persuader"
>Harris: "I think Trump is a conman who convinced a lot of americans to vote for him."
completely lost it at that part, this is congitive dissonance and imo underestimating your enemy because even if he hates Trump and wants him to fail he is so off on his skillset and powerlevel.

>>134310182
I simply think North Korea is an easy case, and I still see westerners failing to grasp the history, and current reality of the situation. Most westerners don't even appreciate the mutual desires for reunification in both the North and the South, the common sense of a Korean nation, and a single Korean people, the continuing cross-border family ties that both sides make extra-legal accommodations for, and the North's reasonable view that Koreans generally got fucked over after WWII as the country was carved up by the great powers despite being a non-combative state, and that they resent and don't trust pretty much anyone, least of all the US.

Okay, fine. You don't believe in toppling every nation on Earth. Great. I think you're ignoring one thing in the fact that you even feel compelled to compare the ability of certain societies to provide better well-being for people than others. The emphasis seems to be entirely on the political system, and does not take into account demographic or geographic realities that are not contingent, but rather unchangable realities. A system that produces thriving in Finland, probably won't do so in a massive multi-ethnic land empire of a billion+ people like China, or even a more sparsely populated but otherwise similar situation in Russia.

The very impulse to compare countries in a 1:1 fashion is bone headed in and of itself.

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>>134309346

>Drumpf's a liar because the New York Times said he'd deport 12 million illegals instead of 10!

That's literally their justification for calling him a liar. Yet what other politician would openly admit that the wouldn't have hired their AG if they told him they'd recuse themselves? NOBODY.

Trump is by far the most honest and human president we've had in a long, long time.

>>134290218
Just listed to the pod cast. Sam is so dense and clueless on politics. He doesn't use the logic he uses on other issues on politics. The dialogue was mostly painful.

>>134308055
>https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/6o6v2s/87_triggered/

Jesus Christ Reddit is fucking terrible, Say what you like about 4chan being an echo chamber but at least opposing arguments that aren't removed/downvoted to hell.

>>134294401
>It is real in their mind

Don't forget that the whole climate thing is a good excuse to get steal money from poor people in wealthy countries and give it to wealthy people in poor countries.

>>134302011
Yes, determinism is bullshit for exactly that reason. But if we embrace it for a while you can't be blamed for eradicating them either.

>>134304452
You're analysing who was right and intellectually honest. But peterson could have done better if he called harris out for it.

I only listened to a bit though, I could see quickly that they were getting nowhere. Too ivory tower.

>>134311109
The problem is they're seeing it all in the past, whereas Scott wrote about everything during the election with accurate predictions based on the "if I were a master persuader I'd do x." If you try to do a post-hoc you can try to fit the outcome into any worldview, which is what Sam and his fangays are trying to argue. The thing is, Trump did all of this analysis BEFORE it happened.

>>134290218
Did you hear the debate? Scott Adams was way below the level of Sam Harris

>atheist
>muh ethic
lmao

Adams compared Trump to a shady lawyer with an awesome track record in victories. You would want this lawyer to represent you. The president doesn't have to be a role model but he has to win for America. You can't argue that Trump isn't successful. Harris cries Trump is mean tho.
.

>>134310699
So you don't believe ideology or certain government or regimes play a role in producing better societies? I think a really easy example is west & east Germany and how relatively poor and worse off the east was. The only difference was the government & ideology. Compare the GDP between eastern Europe that got sucked in by the Soviet Union to western Europe that thrived under secular democracies.


>The very impulse to compare countries in a 1:1 fashion is bone headed in and of itself.
I have no such impulse, though you seem to be prescribing me one. I think what's sillier is that since it can't be compared 1:1 you seem to be saying it's 0:1, either all or nothing, black or white.

Do you think South Korea is doing better than North Korea? They were the same people, had the same history etc etc. What eventually seperated them were their different governments, which produced different circumstances and so on. The same goes for east and west Germany.

Can we agree communism generally tends to produce worse circumstances and living conditions for the people than capitalist systems do? I mean, we should probably be able to agree on at least this, at the very least. I know some won't. Despite the fact that people such as the Cubans and the east Germans were killed trying to escape their systems. My friend is Cuban, his father escaped about 30 years ago and comes to visit his other friends there quite often. His friend always cries for not having left with them, it was a split decision and he chickened out and has to live with the regret. It just seems insane to me equating a system/government like that to a secular one where a circumstance such as this could never have been produced. In fact, take the EXACT same government and remove the restriction on travel freedoms and voilà, you have a better government more conducive to their people's well-being.

>>134311598
Yes, Harris sperged totaly and was against an informed and cultured Adams.
This is golden.
I was waiting for that moment for so long.
Harris is like a CNN speaker when it comes to politics.

>>134311598
I know Sam Harris lost, because we are talking about it ;^)

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My favorite part is when Adams points out that the red team blue team climate change debate is a great opportunity to teach the public what the science actually is and to get everyone onboard, and Harris just blurts out that the president can do whatever he wants and shouldn't have to care about public opinion. Bravo Harris.