the Alsatian question

>>134061665

lol who cares senpai

File: 1492169795202.jpg (264KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 1000x1000px

>>134061688
This. Most of it is Turkish clay now anyway.

File: alsace.jpg (89KB, 728x425px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 728x425px

my plan for Alsace

1. de facto independent bilingual region in France (probably my favourite)

2. bilingual bundesland of Bundesrepublik Germany. Alsace could keep its own flag, borders, culture, language on that way and have facilities for French speaking people.

3. bilingual independent country with Strassbourg as capital

it doesn't have to be like that. Turks will never stay there forever, because they think their culture is superior. Once their family members and friends leave the spot they will all move somewhere else.

File: 800px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Alsace-Lorraine.svg.png (3KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 800x533px

>>134061665
pic related

>>134061665
Speak French

>>134061665
I need a quick rundown on why krauts and frogs fought for alsace-lorraine
Which rightful clay is it?

File: elections German Empire.png (420KB, 1200x858px) Image search: [Google]

420KB, 1200x858px

>>134063218
who?

>>134063262
It's French but Germans claim it since the Pan-Germanist Prussian movement was used to unify and create Prussia/Germany.

>>134063262
>Which rightful clay is it?
Swiss

>>134063325
Alsatians of course

>Alsatian culture
never heard of it

reminding people that alsatian culture is a thing might be a start. do the alsations know about themselves even? who are they?

>>134063481
Of course they do, they even have their own separate constitution that doesn't separate state and church.

>>134063262
Lotharingia

>>134063262
Technically speaking, when Germany annexed the territory in 1871 after the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War the entire region (With the exception of the city of Metz and the surrounding region) was German. Bismarck didn't want to annex the region but the Prussian General Staff and the Kaiser insisted because Bavaria, Baden and Wuttemburg wanted a buffer between them and France in case of future invasion, the area was German so for nationalistic ethnic reasons, for strategic purposes and also because it was believed that Luxembourg would also join the German Empire, that's why you will notice that Germany's borders pre-WWI with Luxembourg added make a rather smooth curve. If you look at the space between Alsace and Eupen-Malmedy it looks like a piece is missing. That piece is Luxembourg. But Luxembourg didn't join so the point became moot. But even today the region is still German, albeit heavily Francozied because France banned the speaking of German after 1945 and tried to erase all traces of German identity from the region.

File: cum on step it up.jpg (109KB, 522x529px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 522x529px

>>134061665
>France is fucked
>Germany is fucked
>Alsace is between two fucked countries
>Therefore Alsace too is fucked

File: image12.jpg (1MB, 1400x897px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1400x897px

Alsatian here, ask what you want

>>134063643
Wrong, all the local languages and cultures were slowly erased in the name of Jacobinism thay started in the 20's and culminated.with the rural exodus, Alsace has nothing to do with Germany and france was not a culturaly, ethnically, or linguistically unified country until well into the 60's.
Stop talking smack.
Alsatian languages and culture weren't even the most repressed ones since Alsace has a special status, especially compared to Bretagne and Languedoc.

File: alsatian town.jpg (228KB, 1632x1080px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 1632x1080px

>>134063262
When the kingdom of Lotharingia ceased to exist ''France and "Germany'' both wanted to annex the territory. From the 9th-century to mid-17th century all of alsace has been German.
Louis XIV started to annex lands from the German empire (HRE) because he wanted to make the Rhine the border of France. The last annexations in Alsace-Lorraine were done in the early 19th-century. Towns like this picture were annexed by France during the early 19th-century. However, most people in Alsace and some in Moselle still spoke German (Alsatian) at the end of that 19th-century and that's why Bismarck wanted to unite those lands with the German Empire when the German state was strong enough. After WWII most Alsatians still spoke German, but France has been trying to make it more French since then. Even now Paris has abolished Alsace and given the land to Grand-Est instead with the purpose to keep Alsatians out of the regional politics.

>>134063896
You're a moron.

>>134063833
Do you still have an Alsatian identity and are you able to speak Alsatian?

>>134064198
You could ask the same thing to a Breton, a Provençal, et... and get the same answer.
Germanic victim complex is absolutely insane and inane.

>>134063871
Are you joking. Any linguistic map will demonstrate that Alsace is overwhelmingly German and Moselle is also quite German towards the modern German border and French around Metz towards the French border. And I don't care what the Bretons or others had to deal with. We are talking about the Germans in France who DID have their culture suppressed after WW2 no matter how you look at it.

>>134064299
And French arrogance never fails to amaze as usual.

File: -Manif-Alsace-11-octobre-2014OK.jpg (190KB, 940x470px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 940x470px

>>134064198
Yes, and it's very strong. Almost all elders still speak it, the problem is that new generation doesn't learn it even tho you can at school.

>>134064299
I don't know how the Germans feel about their own victim complex, but you should ask them about that. However, Alsace is a more complex case than any other regions of France and I just wonder how Alsatians think about the disappearing Alsatian identity.

>>134064364
You are about as historically educated as a donkey.
You don't even make the difference between german and germanic, this board really went to shit with you anglo reddit shit talking shit about subjects you know about as well as how to not post litteral garbage onto this board.

>>134064501
what would you do to preserve the Alsatian identity if you were in charge?

>>134064421
You mistake for arrogance what is just being annoyed by idiots who run their mouth。

>>134064592
What the hell other kind of Germanics do you think are inhabiting the region you French twat? Come tell me, what other Germanic peoples are living right across from the Franco-German border? The Swedes? The Norwegians? The Danes? No, IT'S THE FUCKING GERMANS. Try and bullshit your way of out this one.

>>134064765
Benelux, switzerland, not to mention Normandy and the Normand trail all along the Seine within France.

>>134064501
and does the new generation feel more French than the old generations? Does the new generation care more about their French identity than being Alsatian taking into account that it doesn't learn the old language. (also, thank you for responding)

>>134064873
I said the Franco-German border. And the Swiss, not matter how high and mighty they try and act are still German along the Franco-German border. Your assertion is that the people living in Alsace or not German but Germanic. Tell me then, which Germanic people are they if not German.

>>134065022
Not all germanic people are German, Germany itself is a new entity based around the idea of pangermanism, France is not an ethnically unified country and in its current borders counts germanics, celts, meditteraneans, etc...
You have no understanding of the formation of European nations especially the crossroad of Europe that is France.

>>134063360
how can anything be french?

The "french" are not an ethnic group, but a collective of Germanic, Celtic and Romanic tribes.
French is a Romanic Language, so it belongs into Italy.
All that was holding France together was the monarchy. Charles the Great conquered France and the Eastern Frankish kingdom was united under one monarch who enforced strict centralism to hold the country together.
But since the loss of the Monarchy there is no use for France anymore. What is their foundation? We have been together for so long, so lets continue? If that is the case, who can you claim more?
Makes no sense to me how there can be french nationalists. What are you defending? North Eastern French people are closer to Germans then they are to south western French people.

It is just muhaa, I need a collective. Probably also the reason, why the french rally behind an almost all black national football team. It is just about the team, that came into existence out of pure randomness and it doesn't matter who plays for the team, as long the team is winning.

>>134065352
Wew what a retarded post Ozil.

>>134065257
Don't try and dodge the question. I never implied that all Germanic people are German and you know it. I know full well the difference between Germans, which includes regional groups such as Bavarians, Prussians, Austrians and ALSATIANS and the larger group of Germanic peoples which includes the Germans but also the Danes, Norwegians, Swedes, Dutch, Luxembourgians (Though they are mixed with French) half of Belgium, parts of Switzerland etc.. I am asking which Germanic people live in France along the Franco-German border. You claim they are not German. Which Germanic people are they then?

>>134065536
They're alsatians, is that so hard to grasp ?
Btw the Dutch speaking part of Belgium is the one that used to belong to the kingdom of France.

>>134065728
Alsatian is not some separate branch of the Germanic peoples. They as Alsatian as Prussians are Prussian and Austrians are Austrian. They are all GERMAN at the end of the day.

File: dolomite.jpg (140KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 600x400px

>>134061665
>>134063896
Oh God please post more comfy town pics

>>134065857
No, you're clearly too stupid to grasp or even differentiate between the concepts of race, ethnicity, culture and nationality.

File: kaysersberg Alsace.jpg (477KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

477KB, 1024x683px

>>134065897
I made some during my stay in Alsace last month, but they are not as good as those you can find on internet and I still have to upload them. But I'll post them somewhere when I'm done. to remain in the context another Alsatian town

>>134065536

Don't pay that much attention to languages though. Alsatians, as Austrians and Bavarians, are slightly more descended from the original Celts who started there the Hallstatt then La Tène cultures, than the original Germanics who spread for Denmark during Antiquity. Northern French-speaking French are the same Celtic/Germanic mix. Those peoples you're trying to divide are more related than you'd think. Language and culture still matter though, and Alsatians are an offshoot of the HRE, which is the basis of modern Germany.

And France will do disappear. France's meaning was the King. Without it it has no sense, and the republican chimping out culture will eventually let nothing but ashes after having contaminated the whole world.

File: Noel_en_Alsace.jpg (119KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 500x375px

>>134064646
Firstly, a special statut for the region, to give it a lot more autonomy.
From then start with child, we should teach them our culture, our history, our language and to be proud of it.
Then we should prioritize anything that is Alsatian over french or international.
From this it would already be great, we still have a lot our regional culture present in everyday life.

>>134064929
Even the elders feels strongly French and despise Germany, but they feels Alsatian before all. The new generation feel French with alsatians roots, with other french they will identify strongly as alsatian and be proud of it, but otherwise it's more like a background.
It depends a lot too if they are urban or rural.
Even tho they doesn't speak the old language, we still have a lot of preserved tradition, folklore, food,architecture and specificity to keep our culture to pass on.

>>134061665
Dogs don't have culture

File: countyof Flanders.png (225KB, 706x599px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 706x599px

>>134065728
if you mean the county of Flanders, then you're right. But don't forget it was independent from the start and it had more wars with the French king than with the foreign territories it was bordering. I'm born in Bruges myself, so I feel quite connected to it,

>>134066638
It was one of the original peers of the kingdom of France that's all that matters, wars between the king and counts and dukes were very common in the FEUDal era...

>>134063360

French claimed it from the Holy Roman Empire. Does not make it theirs.

If we are to restore Constantinople, we are to restore the Third Rome.

>>134066398
i'd love to see the solution you described working out. hopefully you'll get from Paris what you deserve in Paris. I was afraid Alsace was losing its identity due to the French influences but thanks to you I know the Alsatians will never give up their heritage.

>>134066886
Third rome was Russia, HRE is a big historical meme.

>>134066814
French have never been liked that much in Flanders. For Flanders England and the rest of the Low Countries were much more important and the German peers helped Flanders to get rid of France.

>>134066262
That's all well and good but are you saying that Northern speaking French people are are just Francozised Germanic peoples? I am asserting that Alsatians are Germans even though they may not feel like it anymore after a period of heavy Francization.

>>134066638

really makes me sad to look how much clay flanders has lost over the ages.
There are still medieval buildings in france that have flemish lions on them.

We where just in the middle of all the big dogs, never had a change to survive.
Flanders was a battleground for every major european war.

>>134067219
And that's why you're a moron.

>>134067209
Irrelevant to my argument though.

>>134067219
I think he disagrees with you that there is some big Germanic group of people

>>134067444
No, another Frenchie >>134066262 is saying that North speaking French people have a similar genetic admixture as Bavarians and Austrians, that is to say Celtic and and not purely Germanic like northern Germans, at least I think that is what he was saying. That's why I asked. This one >>134067365 is implying that I don't know the difference between Germanics and Germans when I have repeatedly demonstrated that I do. He also makes the assertion that Alsatians are a separate Germanic group altogether while I assert that they are German. They have their regional identity as Alsatians like Bavarians and Prussians and Rheinlanders have theirs but together they are Germans.

>>134066991
Slavic shits? Their only connection to Rome is that two scholars converted their entire populace with a few books. Don't confuse that with Imperium or Glory. They deserve, and own, nothing. They never have. Mongloids and lesser whites, the lot of them.

But you'd recognize them. French have no sense, only greed, and cowardice. The French would rather destroy themselves in the pursuit of destruction of their enemy. If France was a world power against the UK today, MAD would be initiated and the French would claim victory because at least they brought down their enemy with them. Good job being apart of a self-destructive culture.

File: Elsass-Lothringen_1648-1789.jpg (2MB, 1456x2332px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1456x2332px

just post this here, because it's an interesting map

>>134061665
You spelt that wrong.. Asian.. stop making up words