In a few years, would universal basic income work?

>>134004705

no because it relies on importing goods made by slave labor overseas.

literally free money so you can buy shit made by slaves.

faggot.

>>134004859

https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Ya all that 'slave' labour is getting replaced by robots too.

>>134005328
Let's archive it
https://archive.is/6KM3P

>>134004705

In a jobless society where automation does all of the work? Yes. But that will take a few decades to really begin kicking in. So for the time being: no.

>>134004859

>no because it relies on importing goods made by slave labor overseas.
no it doesn't

>literally free money so you can buy shit made by slaves.
literally not

>faggot
no, you

well, those of us who have dignity would work, and the wonderful cheery harmless muslims who have no dignity and don't care will get our tax money!

and if you don't like it, anglo men in blue shirts will shoot you!

>>134004705

It simplifies things for everyone for the people who are basically unemployable. So in the short term this means the government spends less on several departments providing different kinds of welfare.

Long term not so clear.

>>134004705
Hyperinflation

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>>134004705
No ya commie rat.
Go see what happened the last time it was tried.

>>134004705

>pay people just for existing, for doing nothing
>provide no incentive for actually having a job
>whole thing requires people to have jobs to be taxed to provide everyone else's money

Hmmn, really makes you wonder what could possibly go wrong.

>>134006500

https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

The trial in ontario is based on the trial we did in Manitoba.

So 'the last time it was tried' it was successful.

It didn't change much for men. It allowed more women to stay home and raise the kids/take care of the home.

Basically the things that /pol/ is interested in.

>>134006500

https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Wrong link - this is the correct link.

>>134006500

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/revisiting-manitobas-basic-income-experiment-411490895.html

Hmm one more try...

>>134004705
Why would you pay people to do nothing?

>>134004705
Eventually, sure. But first we have to get rid of the freeloaders we have who don't have status to be here, and secure the border so freeloaders don't get back in.\

You can't have a welfare state without good border controls. Otherwise you attract the world's dregs. If we implement UBI before cleansing of these people, we'll never be rid of them.

>>134007845

The people are already doing nothing. The trial is for people who are already on some kind of welfare already. This just makes it simply. They don't need to pretend to find a job, we don't have to pay for social workers to waste time on them pretending to find work etc.

>>134004705
Never. The people that have the money are not going to just give it away.

>>134004705

No.
The current trend is Silicon Valley saying govenrments should pay people so they can buy their products, while doing all they can to avoid paying taxes.

Yes.
Seize the means of production and kill all nonproductive people.
We will all live in interspace utopia within 20 years.

>>134008175
>The people are already doing nothing. The trial is for people who are already on some kind of welfare already.
How about we get rid of welfare instead

Rome in it's final stages, just giving the plebs bread not to riot.

For the US, I think it could work as a better option to the current mess of welfare programs. End all welfare programs, phase out social security, get rid of all the tax carve-outs, and instead just disburse current spending on this directly to everyone (or the poorest 50 percent, or whatever) as a monthly check. This is at least much more efficient, transparent, and less coercive than traditional programs.

>>134004705
>In a few years, would universal basic income work?
No. It's unaffordable.

Also, you don't deserve a basic income just because you exist.

You want money? Go out and work for it you lazy faggot.

You want free money? Die.

>>134004705
kind of, if lefties get enough political power to push through that bit of insanity they will also introduce forced labor for anyone who have ever said anything right wing or misgendered someone or simply for being a cis white male.

>>134006716
The plan for ubi is to take some money from profits from automation to finance ubi, it's not (all) from direct taxation

>>134004705
No, it's ridiculously expensive and the west is already going to have a huge problem trying to support aging boomers.

>>134008402

No thanks. I've seen what parts of the US look like and we don't have crushing third world poverty like that here in Canada.

The unemployable get healthcare and just enough money to pay for the basics.

>>134008402
Actually, expand welfare and education.

I know, for a braindead burger it makes no sense, why should people get something for nothing, right?

Here's the thing, educate people, and they return more once they start working. Keep educating people, and make sure they don't lose their home and family if they lose their job, and guess what. They make a net increase, on all levels of scale.

But nooooo, keep giving up your homes and kids for pocketmoney for Trump and the Cuck bros, while pajeet gets to be CEO.

>>134005495
My thoughts as well.

>>134008728
No the plan for UBI is just like every other government boondoggle
Create inflation so banks can continue to flood the country with bad loans

>>134005495
>In a jobless society where automation does all of the work?

When you are in the gutter and automation keeps you there. Fuck you.

>>134008848
median income is higher in America than Canada
>>134008902
>Here's the thing, educate people,
why cant people educate themselves?

>>134006500
Because I ask if ubi can work in a few years means im for pushing it?

I'm against ubi entirely.

dumb fuck

>>134004705

No, leftists and other collectivists are dehumanizing scum that want to diminish the power of the individual.

>>134004705
When the minimum wage jobs dry up and the cigar smoking politicians are forced to get around to it.

>>134004705
Nope. It won't happen until the day that government owned machines and robots make enough stuff for everyone to be able to live well. Leftist trash, as usual, are looking for slaves to work so that they do not have to. UBI merely requires that the slaves be mechanical an electronic. The free stuff for everyone made by robots is just another typical leftist fantasy about living without having to ever work.

>>134004705
Universal basic income in exchange for universal basic labor.

>>134009008

it's actually financed from bot work. Listen to its proponents, many mention this.

>>134004859

Better than working for (((them))).

>>134008241
I like you kind of commies.

>>134009510
>it's actually financed from bot work
Which should be allowed to create deflation and bring back demand for labor

>>134009648
If you are on welfare you are owned by (((them)))

If there isn't some kind of UBI implemented in this or the next generation, society will collapse. There just will not be enough money for the amount of people that will be alive.

>>134009955
>just will not be enough money
what is deflation?

>>134009510
Have they described an effective way to legislate it? How do they set the increased tax rates? What do they do if the automation is outsourced or overseas?

>>134004705
No

>>134009749
no i mention this only as a i said it before, telling you many of its proponents mention this because you said it was financed from inflation only, it's not.

Taxation doesn't create inflation either.

There are propositions to finance this using a bit of inflation but those are few and far between among the ubi advocates on youtube

>>134005375
>https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing
Let's not
https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

>>134004705
Were 20 trillion in debt.
You think its fair that the people who work are going to pay the other people to not work?

>>134010686

refer to
>>134008728

for the record im against ubi

>>134004705
Absolutely fucking not. This is so contrary to the human spirit it would lead to hell on earth.

>>134004705
No, leave my paycheck alone you globalist kikes.

>hurrr AI will take da jerbs
>google captcha still can't tell difference between cars and signs

please go back to liberal retard land

>>134010686

Have you considered that your government is already doing this now?

Your government spends so much on corporate welfare - especially of the military kind.

Why aren't you people expecting the government to spend your tax dollars on you, instead of the rich who have basically bought your politicians.

It would be a means of determining who's going to be weeded out in the grand Malthusian depopulation conflict or perhaps just outright cull. I'm ok with it frankly. Fuck NEETs.

Look at this downtrodden robot and rejoice at your human superiority (for now)

https://www.theladders.com/p/24160/drowned-robot-and-human-superiority

>>134010686
>You think its fair that the people who work are going to pay the other people to not work?

i don't, not if its a big sum, im against it and its partly why im against ubi

>>134010686
To be fair we already work to pay for others not to work and to vote democrat so they can elect pols to take more of our money and give it to them for not working

At least with UBI we gets a share of the gibs

no because we'll still have niggers in a few years.

>>134010997
in a few years all cars will be able to be almost entirely autonomated, which means all taxi and trucking jobs will be gone in most of the west. All simple jobs like fast food restaurant workers will be replaced by machines. ETC

you're the retard if i had to pick one. Also, i'm about as conservative as anyone on this board.

find a job you know will be replaced by a robot
work until robot replaces you
get laid off and profit the rest of your life

>>134011016
>Your government spends so much on corporate welfare - especially of the military kind.
It spends magnitudes more on welfare welfare, the unsustainable, everyone deserves X kinds.

Your argument: government to spend your tax dollars on you, instead of the rich
Reality: government spends your tax money on itself, as it always has and probably always will.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/

There are ~249 million people 18 or older in the USA.

It would cost you 2.49 TRILLION dollars a MONTH to give all of those people $10 a month.

UBI is fucking stupid and it can never work.

>>134011780
*BILLION

why

Will I get basic income on top of what I make at work?

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Eventually it'll happen. It's a matter of when, not if.

The number of jobs is gradually trending towards zero over the course of several decades.

There's already a shortage of unskilled jobs, it'll only get worse. New jobs will be created, but not enough to maintain an economy.

Capitalism is bleeding to death, it can't survive in a world where human labor is increasingly worthless.

>>134004705
>would universal basic income work?
no, but I'd love to quit my job and live the NEET dream for a few years before it fell apart

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>>134004705
where's all that money going to come from

are you just going to tax people more an- oh wait thats socialism proven to not work

are you just going to just use robots an- oh wait thats capitalism you need incentives for that to work

are you just going to increase your debt by a few trillion a year and rely on humanitarian aid to sustain your people? because thats the only way UBI works.

>>134011780
You give them the choice: Keep the current benefit scheme or everyone gets base level healthcare and ~$850 every two weeks while everything else is rid of including Social Security.

>>134010304
>Taxation doesn't create inflation either.
when it come from people that invest and goes to people that spend then yes it does

>>134011485
And 200 years ago 90% of people were farming
There is not a static number of jobs
There is unlimited demand for labor at the right price

>>134012678
Why post when you've done next to no research? Seriously, dudes.

If you crunch the numbers, and understand that UBI would hypothetically be REPLACING EXISTING WELFARE COSTS, and not supplementing them, we could easily afford UBI *now*, without increasing our taxes - at all. It'd actually cost less than the system we have now.

I'm not even a big proponent of UBI but at least understand what the fuck you're talking about before you criticize it.

>>134004705
I heard you like skyrocketing inflation

>>134013626
I want to eliminate welfare though

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>>134008728
UBI is founded on the belief that robots will take care of all of the work and that humans will be free to do as they please with their new found free time

This works when you view the world through the lens of a 14 year old girl. Realistically, UBI will show people that the labor that they sought to never do again was their lone bargaining chip in an environment where they had little power to begin with.

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>>134013399
> There is unlimited demand for labor at the right price

That's completely meaningless.

You could hire everyone if you only had to pay them a dollar a day, sure, but nobody'd be able to afford basic necessities, let alone purchase goods.

>>134013927
>but nobody'd be able to afford basic necessities
If production is cheap then they will be able to

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>>134013901
> UBI will show people that the labor that they sought to never do again was their lone bargaining chip in an environment where they had little power to begin with.

I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that, can you elaborate?

The US already has close to a universal basic income, it just doesn't come for without strings. Thats what the military industrial complex is, even if you aren't signed up for it. When congress orders a few billion dollar jets, they do it so that congressmen will get business in their districts to build the parts all across the US. If your the age to sign up and can't do to a physical condition that prevents you from serving, you can sign up for disability pay. Thats the real reason we are always at war and always staffing bases the world over.

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>>134014034
Production of goods has gotten cheaper and cheaper due to outsourcing and some automation, and yet our living standards have gone down the shitter because of a net loss in jobs, specifically unskilled jobs.

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>>134013626
assuming US welfare is approximately a trillion a year (VERY large estimate)
US population (including kids) is about 300 million

1,000,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = 3.3k per person

Assuming US welfare is 400 billion (taking out medicaid),
400,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = 1.3k per person

>much money
>such benefit
>wow

>>134014390
because welfare is keeping prices up

>>134011016
The military is the reason you sleep safe at night, you dumb fuck. I'd rather corporations get welfare anyway, they bring us innovations, jobs and provide us with products. What does fucking unemployment welfare give us?

>>134004705
>WHAT IF WE MADE MONEY COMPLETELY WORTHLESS WOULDN'T THAT BE COOL?!?!?!!?

>>134014657
>The military is the reason you sleep safe at night,
Nobody is going to invade us

>>134012834
If 10% of the population signed up for UBI, you'd need $550 thousand millions, over half a trillion dollars every year just to fund it.

If 25% of the population signed up, you'd have to come up with $1.38 million million, or $1.38 trillion dollars a year fund it.

If 75% signed up, that's $4.127 trillion dollars a year.

It's not feasible.

>>134014107
>I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that, can you elaborate?
Not the same poster but what I think he means is that the one thing that gives the average joe any power over the government is that ultimately they control the production of goods, including necessities like food.

So if government owned machines did all that work then we have absolutely no power over the government.

More world welfare for america to pay

>>134014781
Because of the fucking military.

>>134004705
A few more years of advancement in automation and it's going to have to otherwise the plebs are going to slaughter the corporate aristocracy.

>>134004705
UBI will never work because value is relative. All it will do is inflate currency.

>give $25k to all 250 million adults every year
>costs over $6 trillion
>get $2 trillion back in taxes
>increases deficit at least $4 trillion

that should answer it

>>134009812
How?

>>134004705
Oh, you mean socialism? They've tried that, its failed in pretty much every country its been tried in, so you want to fund it on a worldwide scale?

>>134008241
this

>>134014988

Canada doesn't have anywhere near the military of the US and I feel safer here then I think you are.

Your military is just a huge system to take your tax dollars, and feed a small number of companies that make a small group of people very rich, and in tern prove slave level jobs for otherwise uneducated and unemployable people. Which you could argue is better then those people rotting in ghetto's.

But the US could do much more if it spent its money on the middle class and not just keeping the rich - rich.

>>134014864
>So if government owned machines did all that work then we have absolutely no power over the government.
Unless of course, you owned some of those machines as well.

It is an idea whose time has come. It will replace all inefficient subsidies, socialised schemes etc.

>>134015605
the reason you feel safe is because your country has the godly luck to be next to the US and share western values, you don't need a big military BECAUSE the US has such a strong one that our mere proximity to you scares the ever living shit out of any organized rebellious organization from forming in your midst. We are only less safe because that large military makes us more of a target. But keep telling yourself that your countries success has nothing to do with a lack of need for a military to spend your tax dollars on.

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>>134015469
>How?

If the monetary system went to absolute shit where would you get your food? Electricity? Where would you put your waste? Where would you do anything? You wouldn't, you would go crawling to the pedophile ridden authorities and suck their blood child rinsed cocks for help because you are a helpless and dependent piece of slave garbage.

>>134014781
Wow this guys is brick-brain stupid. Holes and everything.

>>134015632
>Unless of course, you owned some of those machines as well.
Perhaps, but the government would definitely own the majority of these machines. So if any common folk who decided to rebel against the government by turning off their food making machine, their efforts would be in vain. If the government has hundreds upon hundeds of machines, who cares if regular people stop producing.

Since the government also completely controls the flow of money since nobody is working and nobody can work, they can either cut funds or make it so you only have enough money to afford basic necessities, so you would never be able to get one of these machines in the first place.

This is all entirely speculative and assumes a lot of things about the socioeconomic condition, but I'd say this theoretical future gives the elites way too much power.

>>134004705
UBI is just a meme to cover the fact that your governments are giving your hard earned tax money to muslims that they are importing to replace you. It's never going to be a thing. It's just a way to sell wishful thinkers the idea of doing UBI 'experiments' aka FREE CASH TO NEGROID MUDSLIMES.

>>134016178
An occupation force in the US would be too costly to maintain for any length of time, our strong military presence and an ocean between us would make it incredibly hard to create a launching point to operate out of that we wouldn't simply turn to glass if it grew to big.

UBI would actually save money

imagine taking all the money spent on education, health, transportation, electricity, welfare etc
then dividing it into equal parts for each citizen
afterwards you could fire millions of government employees and people could buy whatever services they wanted from the private sector.

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>>134013626

oh and in case >>134014575 wasn't enough,
US welfare is payed for by tax money
so your system would literally be socialism
>but muh "real socialism" never been tried

>>134016484
Argentine. Bad at math. All those 'fired government employees' would be receiving the UBI too, thus canceling out any savings. It's so obvious Argentina is not white, from flag comments alone.

>>134016621
UBI is practically nothing compared to what government employees get paid.

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>>134016167

Thats exactly what I'm telling myself and what most Canadians believe.

We spend more of our tax dollars on our middle class then the US. Not large corporate welfare programs like the military.

As a result we have more of our population in the middle class. We don't have the extreme poverty you see in the US.

Your military is so large that you basically have to find excuses to justify its existance....re: world police. Which makes you more of a target, which makes you spend more on the military - circle logic.

>automation
>"""progress"""
Not working goes against human evolution. Always prioritize human nature over expanding human 'rights'

>>134014988
>>134016178
good luck occupying a country with 300 million guns

>>134017055
when we come for your water, just know you could have bought a gun or two, instead of flooding your country with Chinese pacifists. i wonder if your high and mighty attitude will counter my 7.62 as well as you think it will?

the world needs pawns, nice to have a stable right next door...

>>134016178
no one can invade us, you turbo faggot. only nuke us, and hopefully we can figure that out in the next few decades. the entire world could barely land on Normandy and that was luck that it worked.

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>>134019239

All I got out of that was that you admit that your 1% corporate overlords left unchecked will destroy your environment to the point that you'll have to steal the resources of other countries who were responsible.

Their is a reason the rest of the world is pulling away from the US. The rest of us are getting closer to the point where its more attractive to have economic and political relationships with China/Asia and the EU.

>>134004705
You talking about miniumum wage or is this a new leaf meme?

>>134004705
no but the government might start paying people to go to school and do things like that instead

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>>134004705
Sure, as long as you’re cool with mass forced sterilization

>>134004705
Even if you had mass automation and higher than 10K a year UBI by ignoring the third world, businesses wouldn't be able to easily finance expansion with all the money they pay in taxes, there would be less money left over to loan to entrepreneurs and they'd have to rely solely on UBI for seed funding which doesn't make up for their cost of living plus leftovers for financing a new product or service. As less people work, less people pay taxes, so the few rich will have to pay even more than they previously did to make up the slack. Many people might live on hobbies alone with machines doing the real jobs, but inflation will kill what UBI affords and suddenly the small rich will have to pay yet again higher taxes to support this. It might work for a while but it's not set up to sustain economies, being worse than Socialism without automation.

Without UBI and with massive automation, jobs would shift away from practical work and would instead be hobbies that entertain the wealthy like full time YouTube, Twitch, Patreon, or other services like these which spring up for people to catch a bone off of the wealthy with money to throw around voluntarily based on who entertains or teaches them things the most. You might argue that there would be a small 1% handing out a small portion of their wealth to e-jesters, but without heavy taxes, small businesses can grow, and entrepreneurs can still grow their wealth by providing the market new products, services, or platforms which grow the number of rich naturally and hence increase the number of voluntary handouts while simultaneously decreasing the amount of people needing handouts.

>>134025480
I wouldn't mind that. People need to stop breeding

>>134004705
No, because it would just create an underclass. All the elites want is to replace all human labor with robots, then subsidize the unemployable masses with UBI, which they would spend right back with the corporations.

It would be a dystopian nightmare. That's what Cuckerberg wants.

>>134027420
For the second bit, it's trickle-down economics realized because the rich directly fund the poor in the way of whatever e-gig interests them, but it's exponentially potent because the amount of rich are allowed to grow while the poor decrease.

>>134004705

I like the idea that UBI is a backdoor to destroy the ails of a welfare state.

>>134004705
>In a few years, would universal basic income work?
It definitely will not work. People do almost nothing when they are not compelled to. Moreover, economics shows that wealth normalizes to the mean. Basically, you will be making whatever your base income is become the new level of abject poverty.

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>>134004705
Stop being lazy you fucking leaf.

Universal Basic Income is just repackaging of welfare. It CAN work, but you've got to keep some things in mind like dropping minimum wage, possibly to zero, managing the freeloader problem, managing immigration and birhthrates so that your society's great people reproduce and not an explosion from morons.

>>134004705
>will communism work

no

>>134027730
You first friendo, hope you are taking your hormones and have your SRS scheduled

>>134006716
The incentive for having a job is to make more money and being better than poor people, just like it used to be before the welfare state. Only difference is that women might finally leave healthcare and all other important areas because most don't have the drive, as evidenced by their infrequent promotions and low working hours.

Apparently it also saves more money than the current welfare system does, because it replaces all social programs and you can fire most of the useless civil servants used to administer them.

>>134004705
Why don't we teach people to produce their own food by ai-control vertical agriculture, to produce their own electricity over solar roofs, we also have to abolish tax on property. Governments have to go, but instead they want to become the only provider. That's the key to tirany.

All the NEETs on the Internet salivating at the mere thought of receiving free money for sitting on their worthless asses all day.

>>134004705

Oh yeah lets make us more and more like communists until we suddenly blink and there it is.

>>134004705
Yes, because it furthers the goal of making humans reliant on the state for everything.

This is the Mason's "great work" - so you can count on it at some point.

>>134031121
This guy is absolutely correct.

>>134004705
Hypothetically UBI is possible but not desireable.

But it won't happen in the next 10 years. Too much debt that needs to be payed. What's left of capitalism can't produce the necessary wealth.

Also governments would rather democide than waste resources on useless eaters.