Why universal basic income is gaining support, critics

>>133879232
>universal basic income
then what's the point of money?

>An explosion in creativity.

An explosion in the lack of proofs.

>>133879232
UBI is just setting the conditions for a mass culling as everyone becomes dependent on it

>>133879232
Did someone say profits?

>>133879303

What's the point of an already established minimum wage based on state?

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>>133879303
There is none.

>>133879232
If they give me a UBI I'll just send it to whatever politicians are fighting against it to help fund their cause.

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>>133879232

>>133879530
>What's the point of an already established minimum wage based on state?

To keep poor people alive for some reason.

>>133879303

Money already is useless. If we lived in a world without money it would be no different.

Yes, more free money for everyone!

>>133879232
A literal nothing because the money for it doesn't exist and it wouldn't work even if it were implemented.

You mean a basic welfare state?

>>133879232
Because leftards rule the media and some people are lazy

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>>133879232
These fucking scum.

>>133879766
>If we lived in a world without money it would be no different.

Actually you would have to produce something to trade instead of making cheap plastic garbage for 7 bucks an hour. Would be great for someone like me who raises livestock but would be awful for anyone who isn't exceptional at anything.

Money is an equalizer because the unskilled would have nothing to trade for goods without it.

>>133879848
>and it wouldn't work even if it were implemented.
that's why it's good

>>133879232

>implement UBI
>Watch every bum and junkie on the continent flock over
>Watch UBI collapse under the additional hosuing, medical and therapeutic care bills ontop of UBI expense

Who will be first?

I bet it will be Ontario.

>>133879303
fpbp

This is going to put inflation on steroids if it ever breaks out of controlled micro-economies

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>>133879232
>UBI

Can't wait. Working for a living is for the birds. Being a NEET will be easier than ever.

> Milk costs 2$.
> Everyone given 5$.
> Now milk cost 7$.

Nice idea, faggot.

>>133879232

Political nobodies trying to up the vote buying ante.

If they are successful and everyone conservative or liberal will have to play by their rules or lose the general election.

>>133879303
jew points will still be redemmable for produced goods, but they will be worth less since everyone will have a minimum.

Millenials have nearly unlimited free time, live with their parents, went to college and have access to the internet. Where's the "explosion in creativity" from that? We got even more trivial narcissism and fetish for consumerism, just like we'd get paying everyone to be some layabout moron.

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>>133879232
>jews promoting communism
what is this, 1917?

>>133879232
Universal basic income is a rather large concept, which doesn't mean much by itself.

A low basic income could be advocate by the right, as a mean to suppress all social insurances.

A high basic income could be advocate by the left, as a mean to guarantee a minimal life standard.

Same concept, two opposite applications.
If we want to discuss about it, we need to know how much would be this basic income!

We've been getting surveilled and social engineered long enough without pay and now I can get paid!?

Count me in! Want me DNA, too?

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>>133879232
>mfw
>WHY free money for anyone who wants is gaining support

Just wanted to say.

I'M SHORT TESLA.

>>133879303
There isn't. It is just another word for hyper inflation.

>>133880217
We already have basic income, that is welfare. Universal just means it extends to every citizen in the country. Find out how much someone in your country gets for welfare, thats what it will be.

>>133879232
>corporations get more consumers
>"middle class" will pay for it
Its a groundwork to let in a billion negroes and have you pay for them.
>we don't need them to work we have robots for that, we let them in because we need to help them
Can literally screen cap it and repost in 2050.

>>133879303
>then what's the point of money?
That... uh... what?
Guy, money is still representative of a finite resource. You use that finite resource to trade for things you may want.
Just because you get an allowance doesn't suddenly mean everything is free and meaningless.

Its just a communist trick.

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>>133879232
>taking my taxes and redistributing it equally
I'll shoot you for that

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>>133879303
To facilitate trade.

>>133879405
This.

I am a UBI advocate, but there are several major misconceptions about its rationale and probable impact. Milton Friedman introduced the concept in the Sixties as a more efficient alternative to current wealth redistribution. If welfare transfers "spurred creativity", American negroes would've developed a settlement on Mars by this point. And the notion that "automation" will render human superfluous in the economy was a sentiment shared by the typesetters union as well as the legions of telephone operators who used to account for the bulk of telecoms employees. People will just do different work. Why anyone thinks recent advances in dick pic tech and fast food dispersion somehow leads to robots doing everything within the next five years is beyond me.

I would also take issue with the fallacy that it will "reduce inequality". It would likely reduce absolute poverty, but that's not the same as inequality.

This is all UBI is meant to solve: you don't have to do in the street from hunger or disease. But if you want a house, a family, vacations, early retirement, and so on, you have to earn it. UBI essentially removes all dysgenic features of our current welfare net schemes while also eliminating absolute poverty and will not cost any more than we're already spending.

>>133880031

UBI will never work if all of Canada adopt it... But if Ontario adopts it first then it is a way of robbing the other provinces of wealth via inflation (which is a form of tax).

Mudslimes in Germany UK France Sweden already on UBI
Have produced exactly nothing except more of them.
The example already exist

UBI means more time for drinking, smoking, fucking.
Could raise birthrates

Is wealth like a pocket full of cash? Or is that just another buzzword for, "I'm owed X amount of dollars so my net worth is Y." because if it isn't the latter then capitalism is greed.

>>133879685
Oh I like that idea, theres even a tax credit for donations so you could essentially even give that tax credit to them. Let the establishment fund the resistance.

>>133879232
Great idea! Let the people endorsing it take the first 95% cut on their assets to pay for the pilot program!

>>133880148

Fan art and furry porn have seen tremendous improvement.

Still plenty of bad art, but you just don't see the scanned in notebook pages like you used to.

The super high level in video games is being occupied by stronger players than ever.

Besides that there is nothing. Almost all of us waste our time and lives on shit and those of us who don't lack the talent to do anything special.

A basic income won't create the next chess master or street fighter god. The people are born from adversity; they improve their craft so they can win enough gas money to make it to the next tournament.

>>133879232
Do your part.
http://archive.fo/lo7EA

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>>133879232
It's gaining support because the rich kikes know that the goyim have been pushed about as far as they can push us
>fake unemployment statistics covering up mass unemployment
>explotatitive wage slavery
>insane house prices and rent gouging
>(((gig economy)))
>(((service industry)))
>(((debt based economy)))
>(((outsourcing)))
>(((mass immigration))) = unskilled cheap labour

If (((they))) don't throw us a bone soon (((they))) anticipate a huge uprising. Remember this fact about (((universal income)))
>because everyone gets it..it will send the signal to business and landlords etc..that prices can go up because the rational will be "everyone can now afford higher prices". This will result in the poor becoming even poorer as their eg £100 a week..will not buy shit. You could give everyone £1000 a week and it wouldn't make a difference..like I said prices would immediately inflate and devalue the currency.
This is ONE of the major flaws with the universal income meme. Even I can figure this shit out and I don't have a degree in economics.
>reform the welfare state instead..cut out means testing and red tape. Save billions in needless bullshit..of corse that would result in more unemployed people..but still you would save billions.

Society will still disintegrate even with a UBI if people do not have some kind of structure to their lives that allows them to contribute meaningfully to society. And by 'meaningful' that doesn't mean just 'consuming'. Those who think that freeing everyone from the need to work for their own economic security will somehow ennoble mankind are deluding themselves.

The problems caused by modern technology and it's effects on the labor market can't be solved by simply writing checks, even in an honest well-intentioned rich-to-poor wealth transfer.

Bitcoin could have been UBI, but someone fucked that up for the rest of us.

Let's just ignore that until it goes away.

>>133880763
>We already have basic income, that is welfare
The welfare and social insurances (in my country) depends on different factors. For example, if you lose your job, you will get some money according to your previous salary.

We had last year a voting on UBI, the proposed salary was lower than most actuall welfare.

>>133880205
IDA is for faggots.

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>>133881077
The problem with your thinking is that it assumes that UBI will replace current welfare and entitlements, when you and I both know it will merely be appended to them. Latonshafonda and her five kids will get UBI to avoid "absolute poverty" (whatever that is, we're assuming that prices don't simply inflate now that everyone is given $X artificially), but assume she mismanages the money and has nothing. She will cry starvation and absolute poverty, the very thing this was supposed to fix, and who will step in to give more money? This is an infinite loop.

A worse case would be having some kind of UBI based only on food stamps or "you can buy only this" with the money, because then people would either sell the vouchers on a black market, you'd give zero benefit to people who are not in absolute poverty, and you'd further inflate the prices of those subsidized things.

It's shit, Desu, though you are absolutely right about automation and the failure of the present welfare system.

>An explosion in creativity

absolute fucking bullshit. People are not creative when they are comfortable and have all of their needs met. They are lazy degenerate pieces of shit in that condition. If you want creative people put them under pressure.

>>133881442
There is already a law against landlords from increasing a persons rent by more than 4% in 1 year.

>>133881442
>UBI will cause the storm to cease.
No it will seperate the wheat from the chaff. Anyone only complaining because they get enough gibs will quiet down. Those who are truly tied of this punch and Judy show will become more agitated. It's a ploy to grease the squeeky wheel I don't want a bone, I want people to have dignity and self respect. If accept gibs for any reason other than crippling disability you are pathetic.

>>133881077
>UBI essentially removes all dysgenic features of our current welfare net schemes
Don't you think that an handicap person should received more than a person too lazy to work?
I think yes and that's why I am against UBI.

UBI is profitable for businesses, both big and small. Loan sharks are just itching at the opportunity. Convenience stores will begin to sell items that people on UBI will likely buy. Foods will become packaged into bundles that people on UBI will buy. The number of bank accounts being up will go up, the number of NSF fees will go up. More debt incoming. Suddenly people on UBI realize it's not enough. When the gibs will never be enough gibs because we let our capitalist state benefit from all government's actions. Not a commie, but UBI is stupid for regular working class citizens who will pay for UBI anyhow.

>>133879232
Here's the real reason, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0

As the available jobs get eaten up by automation the availability of new venues to create fortunes increase but the available jobs for the low IQ people will reduce steadily up to the point where over half of the population will have no available jobs for them.

The question is if we will reach the point of post scarcity before or after that happens, if before we will be seeing some extremely troubled times.

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>>133881755
If your talking about Irish (((law))). There is also a law about discrimination against people in welfare...but this is how well it's being enforced
>exhibit A check the date of the story

>>133881617
Arts is very free-time required. Other types of creativity (invention) do require pressure. (Necessity) People get creative because they want to be lazy... lol.

In practice, UBI is Jews bribing niggers with white people's money.

Are Jews promoting UBI is Israel too? or is this just another (((theory))) to test out on the goyim countries?

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>>133882090
>Exhibit B..
Screen cap taken yesterday with adverts 28 days old

>>133879232
Do they actually think people will give a shit about being anything if they can get the "minimum wage" for free? Are they retarded?
People will just become the nowadays neets that doesn't do shit, except progressing in games.

I personally think it's pretty obvious that the elite knows that AI will handle ~90% of the jobs in a few decades and they need the people to just.. be there, to consume the things they produce. Which will all-in-all completely demolish the normal people's ability to WANT to get anywhere in life.
Expecting normal people to be more "creative" when their daily needs are met without having to even work for a living, is laughable.

>>133881617

I agree. It will do nothing to improve art and creativity. At least in the long run though it might help superficially in the short term.

Ultimately it will just create a hedonistic society that is morally empty and filled with infantilized people.

>>133879232
These people have no fucking idea what human nature is, or they are purposely plotting to destroy society.
We already have a tumblr full of idle hands making mischief without universal income

>>133881857
>Don't you think that an handicap person should received more than a person too lazy to work?
It's not about need. The UBI is blind to need.

The handicap person should be entitled to the same amount, and the charity and goodwill of his neighbors. With a UBI there may be more charity and goodwill to go around.

>>133882366
>the elite knows that AI will handle ~90% of the jobs in a few decades
This is absolutely retarded and it should be mocked whenever someone casually throws it out as fact. Why didn't mechanical automation replace 90% of the jobs in 1900? Could it be that the types of jobs, industries and endeavors are not static, and new skills will be required as they arise?

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>>133881552
t. hopper / macfag. IDA for life.

>>133882119

They say it's free time required but that is a load of shit.

If you can afford the time to watch the news then you have hundreds of hours of free time each year. You can become proficient in any skill within those 300 hours. You just have to do it.

UBI at the price of freedom of speech.

>>133879232

All is well until the state presents those faggots the bill. And it wont be cheap.
All of a sudden they would back down.

Mark my words!

>>133879953
Which category is botched sex change operations in? That's the one that will explode following universal income

>>133882525
>The handicap person should be entitled to the same amount, and the charity and goodwill of his neighbors. With a UBI there may be more charity and goodwill to go around.
My income and the income of other people is not fucking charity and goodwill. It's the result of our risk and our labor and our commitment to our own families. You aren't "increasing charity" by removing money from the people who actually make money to give to people who can't manage theirs. You are going to get significantly less.

>>133879232
>quietly let us replace you with immigrants, I MEAN ROBOTS, and we promise to pay you money because obviously its cheaper for us to spend billions on robots and then pay you a living wage rather than just pay you a living wage and give you a job ;)

you gotta be a dumb goy to fall for this shit.

>>133879232
>Give people enough money from the start, so they don't need to improve not to improve their skillls to improve their skills.
Brilliant. *clapping*

>>133880531
Inflation not even once happened in history because of poor people getting money, especially not hyper inflation.

>>133882595
You are so simple minded its unbelievable.

>>133882366
Incentives need to be added, things like awards, titles, etc. Rare things.

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>>133881561
I don't doubt at all that's what the left intends, but they will never get that in the US. Moreover, unless it is implemented exactly as Friedman prescribed, it will produce only disincentives and price distortion; in other words, the same shit produced by Welfare State 1.0.

The sad thing is this the best opportunity the right has to eliminate the dysgenic social policies that favor the left and they're gonna scotch it. If imposed in conjunction with massive immigration restrictions and sensible family planning policy (i.e., no government restrictions in abortion and birth control), we'd probably see the spic and nigger populations almost halved in 50 years.

>>133881857
Well, of course. That's what medical insurance is for. I'm also a single-payer advocate, on the obvious grounds that it costs half of what we currently spend on healthcare.

In truth, I do believe a person too lazy to work should simply be executed. The reality is we have a lot of people who are just too stupid to do anything productive, primarily blacks. I'd like to see them at least sterilized, but that's not likely to happen. In reality, UBI (alongside a couple other common sense and noncontroversial policies, all of which basically already exist) is the best chance to end the dysgenic impact of the welfare state. If you pay some dumb nigger just enough to not starve, and ensure his access to some means of birth control while also refusing to subsidize in any way his family creation or expansion, the impact of those policies is far fewer niggers in a couple generations and the left has no grounds on which to complain at all. It's win-win.

>>133879696
Glad I'm not the only one who remembers that episode of Futurama.

whatevs, as long as i make equal or more than what i do with autismbux i'm fine.

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>>133882841
>its

not an argument

>>133879232
In the case that Trump himself fails to implement basic income within the time of his second term himself, the future president of the USA would then be the one who has basic income on his agenda.
And this person most likely will win with a landslide indeed.
If 7 years from now only one candidate will have basic income on their agenda, expect his or her or it (A.I.) to win >70% of the electoral seats.

>>133879303
Money is an artificial construct of behavioural patterns (like any economic or financial ideologies) that can be modified or replaced in its entirety by something/anything more beneficial to humanity at any time.
Money does not matter,
Debt does not matter.
Only behavioural patterns do.

>>133879456
I see basic income as a transitional step/period during the complete liberation of the human psyche from the concept of money and economic doctrines.
Food, water, shelter, healthcare needs to be liberated from "finance" sooner or later.
The things I mention are not dependent upon any ideologies. They are only dependant on behavioural patterns.

>>133882673
It's not a load of shit though. Anything of real value takes time. Things that are fast are cheap and have less value.

>>133882767
They are alrdy testing this in The Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden. Many more eu countries will follow.

>>133879232
inflation would gobble all of it up and the end result is the rich get richer. it wont help any one at the bottom and is a boondoggle for any nation with a active military like the united states

gdp would be negative for each year with a universal basic income. this will kill the dollar. the people at the top dont care. im sure zuky jokes about moving to shanghi when the shit hits the fan

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>universal basic income
>with open borders

>>133879232
it sounds good in theory but why would anything have any value if money is given away for free?

also too many selfish people, the same reason communism doesn't work, humans are flawed.

The problem Jews have is one of intelligent productivity. Jews are fanatically working to populate the world with essentially low intelligence, non-productive people.

One only need look at the countries from which third world “refugees” are fleeing to see their productive potential in today’s high tech world. It’s a real conundrum for Jews because they cannot tolerate intelligent, productive people with the capacity for understanding their predatory methods. Yet those people who make perfect slave classes will not be intelligent or sufficiently motivated to continue developing and producing products required to maintain a fast moving, high tech world.

>>133882366
Becoming creative doesn't happen over night. I can speak as a former vidya addicted NEET. After about 3 years of mindless gaming, I just kind of woke up out of the haze, and my mind was craving something to do. My new addiction is learning, I can't stop eating up as much information as I can. This will happen to others too, you can't just sit inside all day with your brain off forever.

>>133883136
At least you have enough money to run away from shitskins like rich people and don't have to live in basement.

Despite their self laudatory claims of brilliance, Jews are really not all that bright. While, as a race Jews are perhaps masters of cleverness and cunning, the only area where they rank appreciably higher on the IQ scale is in verbal skills and while one may “eat their words”, such a diet will not sustain the body. Therefore, Jews require their slave class to have IQs in the range of the average African Negro.

However, I don’t think the Jews really care about technology as much as they lust for Jewish supremacy uber alles and if that requires a new dark age with a backwards, medieval type society, they will move in that direction.

The Jew’s Old Testament story of the “Tower of Babel” pretty much lays out the future scenario. Nimrod’s culture was a homogeneous, high tech culture with the ability to build towers that reached the heavens. Towers high enough to threaten the “Lord god’s” power over the earth. The “Lord god’s” answer to this untenable situation was to mix Nimrod’s culture with people from different, disparate cultures of “different languages”. These cultures are no doubt of a lower intellectual capacity than the homogeneous people of Babel, otherwise they too would have presented a threat to the Lord god’s power.

>>133882206
Housing market in the UK and Ireland a fucking joke.
> No smoking
> No pets
> No children
> No students
> No DSS (welfare claimants)
With all this bullshit you get a shack that hopefully has all 4 walls, but you cannot be sure.

The deranged government also wants to make landlords check immigration status of tenants, and I bet
> No immigrants
is coming soon.

>>133883021
>>Money is an artificial construct of behavioural patterns (like any economic or financial ideologies) that can be modified or replaced in its entirety by something/anything more beneficial to humanity at any time.
>Money does not matter,
>Debt does not matter.
>Only behavioural patterns do.
t. postmodernist fool

The end result is Nimrod’s advanced civilization is “scattered” among the less intelligent populations, leaving the Jew’s “Lord god” victorious commander over a primitive culture. This new “confused” culture will now breed a less intelligent class of people incapable of building or maintaining the technologically sophisticated civilization required to build towers that might reach “heaven” and threaten the “Lord god’s” power.

In the very same manner, those people now flooding Europe will produce a race of bastardized idiots that can never present a real threat to the Jew’s far more sophisticated military power base created by white man’s technology. Essentially, the emerging slave class will only have the intelligence to pick up sticks and stones in opposition to Israel’s nuclear power. This very scenario is now being mirrored in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians.

Star Trek faggots need to learn what hard work is.

>>133883294
Kek. That's all I'm askin for...

>>133883021
Rich people's sons like on 100 times the UBI since day 0, they also enjoy Socialistic schooling which goes like this: i got a job, i know my job, now Socialistic government just needs to teach me how to do it aka their private schools which are like government owned schools in Socialism where people owned them, in case of rich people they own the schools.

I just lost my job, so for the moment I'm down.

>>133883369
>does not understand that money is created ex nihilo

It's pretty simple...give people a choice between working and x amount of money for doing nothing.
Let's say a figure is set at $300 a week. You can take that OR get a job.
>the government would need to set caps on basic things Iike rents and essentials. To stop runaway inflation and price gouging.
Everyone who opts for a job..will either have a good career OR will do low skilled work simply out of pride..
>low skilled workers however will become highly valued and their wages will shoot up due to their scarcity..as most low skilled people will take the gibs. In fact they will match highly skilled workers salaries and will gain a whole new level of social respect..

Win/win

Workers cannot be paid a universal income because it would have a negative effect all round.

>>133883369
Money is a social construct and is racist.

>>133879232

The right doesn't like creativity. When one explores their creativity, it opens their mind and they typically become more liberal due to it. Conservatism hinges on being close minded and falling in line.

For social welfare countries like western europe this might actually be great. it's a great way to abolish all social programs (gibs, housing etc.) poor people can't and will never learn to handle their money but there's no tax money wasting bureaucracy to help them anymore. So they will end up on the streets where they belonged in the first place.

>>133883659
>implying memes don't explore creativity

>>133879232
>universal basic income
I get up 5 days a week at 5am and get home at 6pm for a shitty minimum wage
If I get the same for just being alive then fuck working

>>133883565
and it's actually worse too: debt with interest.

>>133882931
It's not though, it will exacerbate every social problem we presently face. The idea we'd somehow get free money but restrict abortion, immigration, and impose family planning along with it is totally nonsensical, especially when Occam's Razor is just to remove the funding and bypass all attempts to both give money to and control the spending of the populace.

>obvious grounds that it costs half of what we currently spend on healthcare
You're wrong on several fronts here, but it's worthwhile to discuss. Our system is not good but single payer is worse. Even if your "obvious" truth was actually the truth (it's not: https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/06/13/if-universal-health-care-is-the-goal-dont-copy-canada/&refURL=&referrer=), you're trading cost (the most dynamic and efficient force to control price) for rationing (the slowest and least efficient and most prone to corruption).

>the left has no grounds on which to complain at all
this will literally never happen. People in ghettos get iPhones so now we need to force boys to get their cocks chopped off because they saw it on a cartoon show.

>>133883671
You don't want people on streets, this is the whole reason why welfare exists, since streets rebel. Welfare is the minimum possible to keep you from streets, welfare is suffering, but it's enough you aren't dangerous for government.

>>133883799
Checked. Archive time https://archive.is/7EvLK

Entire populations completely dependent on their governments to survive, what could go wrong?

>>133883756
Salary per month?

Money is the bridge between church and state.

Burning money is illegal.

You do the math.

>>133883322
Yes it's an absolute pisstake here.
>homelessness epidemic
>Government took property assets from bankrupt developers in 2008 under a bullshit body called NAMA, which has held onto most of these buildings and done nothing with them OR has sold them off at huge discounts to ((((American))) vulture funds.
I could go on and on

>>133883866
Don't forget about the robots and AI too...
Theoretically it could be great for everyone, if you remove the humans...

>>133883906
3k AU

>>133882595
>Comparing AI robots to mechanical automation
First off, it did take people's jobs for obvious reasons when it got more advanced and spread. But since it wasn't meant to replace the most typical jobs out there, the people could just get new jobs.
We have been losing manufacturing jobs to robots for years now, how have you been missing this?

Secondly, you can't compare the future AI that will do the work of pretty much every human rather than just a few sectors of our society like the mechanical automation did.
You can read an article written by any company that are currently working hard to developing "humanlike" robots. They are all claiming that a majority of humans in certain societies (a.k.a western world) won't even have to work for a living because they won't need to.

>>133883565
This is a myth, and a non-sequitur.
Second one first: The invention or existence of money isn't the same as the creation of more money.
As for the creation of money, it does not (and really cannot) exist without debt and collateral. It's still a scam, but that doesn't make money some arbitrary bullshit you can whip up willy nilly. Even bitcoin started out as a curio or game before it was actually used as a money.

>>133879685
I'll just keep working and use it to buy guns and ammo.

>>133879232
Universal welfare never has nor will ever work. It's impossible to keep a civilization running when you pay everyone to not work. Every civilization since the Roman empire found that out the hard way.

>>133883056

Talent is born in. Someone with the right talents can ascend to an amazing level quickly. Someone without talent can spend their life playing and be shit.

Melee players today can learn to play at a level that would have won them mlg''s during the MLG era. They can reach this level in a year just because of superior understanding.

https://youtu.be/4y21uwFUgkE

Focus, dedication, training, and talent matter. If this guy wasn't trying to make a video, he wouldn't have done as well. The drive to not look like a putz made him elite in a hurry.

>>133884112
Some day we will be immortal and we will laugh at mortals of past.

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>>133879232

Sage

>>133884174
>(((they))) want it to work
Goy, I...

>>133879232
>Others see it as a way to reduce income inequality or to create a more efficient, less stigmatizing safety net than our current mishmash of welfare benefits.
Can't wait for it, cooperation with people here is impossible and it's not rewarding at all to try to earn money so UBI is a good alternative to still have stable income.

Wealth is a carrot on a stick.

Is UBI perfect? No. But let's see your bright idea for keeping people from rioting in the streets when AI causes 25%+ unemployment.

>>133879530
at one time it was to keep employers from shortchanging laborers when such as when they had to use company currency at the local trade store in the past, now it's a means to keep labor cheap as people are less willing to drive the wage up through attrition, much like Robots are still slow to roll out because of the expense of the unit and foreseeable maintenance, though with more units the cost offsets eventually making them simply better than paying shaunday 15 dollars to fuck up a 6 piece McFuckit.

>>133882769
Well, the idea behind the UBI is, if it replaced all other welfare, then it would actually require less tax revenue. That's not hard to believe; Social Security and Medicare are absolutely strangling the budget. Every acts like a $500,000,000,000 national defense budget is a problem. No. It's very modest compared to the TRILLIONS in entitlements, which only grows every year at a pace that makes the US Defense Dept blush.

>>133884102
You'd never that as the basic income or such

>>133884174
What about the bored people who will volunteer to work, for something to do?

>>133884410
gas chambers. most of them will be shitskins.

>>133884470
>get that*

>>133882673
I think a commonly accepted estimate is like 10000 hours to get good at what you're doing.

>>133884410
Sadly this.

>>133884112
I will preface this by saying that I have a PHD in Computer Science and you are vastly overestimating the degree of advancement in AI technologies right now and projected in the future. For AI to truly replace human activity at the scale you are talking about, they'd need to perfectly comprehend language, vision, and speech, and that's simply unforeseeable in my lifetime, though the advancements made have been impressive.

Look at where the manufacturing jobs have moved to and tell me that robots are the reason. China's factories are not full of robots. Suicide nets are needed to prevent robots from jumping. China is throwing piles of humans at these sectors. These are political decisions being masqueraded as technological ones.

UBI sets a standardized price for a human life.

Bring on the biometric RFID chip, I can't wait to earn a buck for every calorie I burn.

>>133884181
I'm not sure what you wanted to say with your video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA

>>133883021
> liberation of the human psyche from the concept of money and economic doctrines.
Yeah, that's what they'll call it when they liquidate the masses who can't justify their existence.

>>133884486

They don't.

40% of people not in the labor force and places struggle to find volunteers.

There is persistent and immense demand for foster parents that could be met by retirees. These people insist that they get lonely and sad, but they won't take in foster children who could use a stable home. Hell, retirees would be perfect since they won't be burdened with a regular 9-5 like most foster families are.

>>133884174
It's clear there's a very substantial portion of humanity that is not happy with basic sustenance. They will always strive for more. In a world with enough inequality, they would be able to afford keeping the billions afloat. There would probably be some form of population control if space travel hasn't made it possible for people to seriously exodus by then. In the end, Terra is probably going to be a planet of welfare cucks, and humanity's future will be in the stars. The last homesteaders.

>>133884663
>I can't wait to earn a buck for every calorie I burn.

Who wants you to live healthy?

>>133879964
Money is a time saver, for everyone. That's literally first day economics 101 stuff. Any society that relies on a double coincidence of needs will not be efficient.

>>133884428
>if it replaced all other welfare

it won't, see:
>>133881561

The only way it would EVER replace all other welfare is if you can look someone in the face and say "you spent your money, you starve now," or completely control your population from cradle to grave in some authoritarian nightmare state.

>>133884181
No argument there. There are always prodigies etc. But through perseverance a over a long period comes mastery. There is no substitute for time. Some things cannot be rushed. Somethings take a lifetime of dedication to learn and truly master.

>>133879741
People are people.

It is the obligation of humanity to ensure as many people live and thrive as possible. To do otherwise is anti-human.

If UBI is backed up by a large autonomous economy like machine-to-machine where humans can't participate or where it simply isn't economically viable then I don't see how that is a problem.
If it's funded by debt it will collapse eventually ofc.

Also all those fancy jobs you feel save from automation will die without the large solvent customer base. So going all Stalin on your own people won't help either.

Imo the more important issue is how to keep incentive to contribute to society (construction, engineering, science,etc.) with no monetary benefit.

>>133879232
Daily reminder this will be used to push the mark of the beast : you take the chip in your hand, and we will give you free money.

>>133884663
That's an interesting idea actually. Do you really think it would be possible to use financial incentives to create model citizens?

>basic income pays for food and housing
>earn extra from a job
>earn even more extra for physical fitness, smart purchases, saving for retirement, having an appropriate number of children, etc
>docked for committing crimes, doing drugs, irresponsible purchases, etc

Orwellian, but it just might work.

>>133884611
Yep.

>>133879232

That's a good way to make no one work.

I don't think people understand that the majority of individuals are painfully lazy. They would like a Mercedes, but they're sure as hell not going to work for one.

The only motivation for lazy people is fear of death. It's the only thing that makes them work.

Ironically, the more you work, the more you get motivated to work more and eventually you stop being lazy.

UBI kills that.

>>133884781
You know if people knew they going to get good salary they would all try very hard. If you have a shitty life and bad salary you will never try hard. Proof: every Latin American country.

>>133884778
>There is persistent and immense demand for foster parents that could be met by retirees. These people insist that they get lonely and sad, but they won't take in foster children who could use a stable home. Hell, retirees would be perfect since they won't be burdened with a regular 9-5 like most foster families are.
Have a child sometime and see the energy it demands of you. Older people can't go without sleep and they can't run around to chase children without jeopardizing their own health.

>>133882673
>>133882119
I required a bit of pressure to learn how to program (self-taught). Now that I already know how to program, I work much better without pressure, my programs have less bugs and more features.

Thoughts?

>>133884548

Arbitrary number by some random guy who never meant it to be serious. It was 10,000 hours to master it.

Hour per day after work, 2.5 each weekend day and you get 10 hours per week. 1,000 weeks, about 20 years.

Yet we still don't see very many virtuosos.

>>133885022
>That's a good way to make no one work.
>implying the majority of people will be content to live in a cuckshed eating beans and rice all day

>>133884794
It could just be a smart watch you wear on your right wrists.

Like the a togglable version of the mark of the beast instead of a permanent version they inject into while you sleep.

It's gaining support from the rich because it means more people with less money -- you think they'd be OK with $80K in basic income? No; it'll be a little above the median, if that -- and more reliance on the govt.

>>133884617
>Suicide nets are needed to prevent robots from jumping.
[citation needed]

>>133880205
>Communism

Implying you even know what that means

working 9-5 for 20 years has killed my soul and destroyed any hopes or dreams I have ever had. I worry too much about little crap to enjoy life and I want to die every day, but if I do then my kids starve.

>>133884132
Stop treating all of this like a "law of nature"
It blinds your judgement and impedes upon your imagination so greatly that you won't be able to even imagine a state without it's omnipresence.

>>133885177
*aren't

>>133885177
Whoosh

>>133879232
>universal basic income
>no more homeless
>hungry
>those without healthcare
>everyone is free to do whatever!

In reality
>everyone except the elite live in ghettos
>due to hyper inflation, people can barely afford food
>no one is willing to work, drugs and crime increase dramatically
>everyone has healthcare, but it's the worst possible medical attention and no one can use it
>class mobility is dead
>education is purely indoctrination daycare
>government asigned employment that is not optional
>pay taxes on our government issued money

The elite want their slaves back.

>>133885025
>If you have a shitty life and bad salary you will never try hard.
>Proof: my ass

I had a less than ideal life. I'm no orphan or anything but my father was am alcoholic, who broke my mom. and they neither were very good at instilling values or even earning a decent income. we took welfare and still lived like paupers. all in all a poor showing.

from this i made a life for myself that was still just retail but i have a place, a car paid in cash, etc. i have my shit together, largely by forgoing children.

>>133879232
I would support UBI only if all other types of government welfare are removed.

>>133879232
this is way to early for its time, we should wait till we get technologically advanced where work isnt really a thing, fuck with it now you will crash shit hard unless your gonna make it a welfare system but you still gotta work atleast some hours for it if they want you to. Or this is a (((goal))) to devalue the dollar again and make it go up like a rocket, our economics are retarded who the fuck made Keynesian economics

>>133884987
Why not?

I'm not fuckin capitalist, do whatever the fuck you want.

>>133885106

>implying you haven't been around HUD, inner cities. and Appalachia.

Lol, you're retarded. You probably say this as you're content with being a virgin, staying in your mom's basement, and not working out.

It's the same mindset. Why bother?

>>133885022
What are illegal workers and fat Americans? Germany and USA bosses work absolutely nothing, they hire illegal Mexicans who work more than 8 hours, they are motivated because they still get more money than in Mexico. You are digging your own grave. 100% of people become high IQ workhorses when they have a million dollar salary promised.

>>133879232
>compensate for the traditional jobs with benefits that will be wiped out by robotics, artificial intelligence, self-driving vehicles, globalization and the gig economy
Then why does it have to be universal? Even when this happens, which it won't for a long ass time, why not make it so that only those who lost their job will receive the money for a set period of time until they can get another job?
Or better yet, let the companies train their employees to operate such machines/AI?

>>133884410
If robots really does create existing goods for no labor then you'll barely need an income anyway. That particular problem will solve itself.

The main problem is what to do with idle humans. It'll be tumblr on fucking steroids

>>133884915
>People are people.
You clearly haven't met enough of them.

>>133879232
>Universal Basic Income gets implemented
>people end up wasting all the money in a short period of time
>starts bitching about UBI not being enough and asks for more.
>big gov increases UBI
>inflation ends up making the money even more useless.
>rinse repeat

>>133880148

The explosion in creativity is the thousands of Pepes here ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAExa9P7hME

>>133885219
Who are you quoting there?
Money didn't come from nothing, and can't.
Economic laws exist. Deal with it

>>133879232
Looks like a perfect way to implement the mark of the beast..

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV
'16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.'

>>133885059
You program because you desire to do it. (Self taught) you enjoy it so you learn it and do it without needing pressure.
Pressure is required when a job is not desirable to do...

>>133879232
If it happens I'm taking full advantage of it.

>>133885241
You made, wow, how did that happen? Somebody paid you money. You really that naive that you think you going to get salary in Latin America for excellent work? You think they care to give you salary? No, you didn't had it hard.

>>133883021
Liberated from "finance" with the reigns handed to whom?

>>133885452
thats the point of this, tear down our entire economy, and either become isolationist or make the dollar rise up again. Its literally how retarded it is we make the dollar go bottom barrel then make it rise to strength then do it again.

>>133884987
I want a containment area for model citizens to live seperate from drug users and criminals.

>>133885539
Unless they want to mark me.

>>133885334

What are you talking about?

Do you live with your parents?

I love how 4chin thinks people will work when most posters are NEET themselves and can't see that most people don't want to do shit once their basic needs are met.

>>133885059

Internal pressure is better than extrnal pressure. A boas breathing down your neck sucks and is worse than pressure that comes because you want to perform well for a video/tournmaent/whatever.

External pressure still is better than no pressure. No pressure and you do nothing.

>>133880148
>Millenials have nearly unlimited free time, live with their parents, went to college and have access to the internet. Where's the "explosion in creativity" from that?
summerfags, tumblr, and internet blogs on fat shaming

>>133885424
kek

>ubi
>welfare
>social security
Just call it what it is, socialism. The thing about ubi is ppl think the an replace majority of the existing programs to make it more efficient but it'll never happen. When you give ppl ubi they won't give up food stamps.

>>133879232
UBI is just nonsense.

Creativity? Man will cease to innovare and create when he no longer works or faces strife.

>>133885424
under-rated

>>133885323
>HUD, inner cities. and Appalachia
The difference is those are shitholes with two things:

>culture of laziness
>no immediate opportunity anyway

Welfare or no, these people would be doing more or less the same thing because there's nothing there and they do not have the skills/education to succeed elsewhere regardless. And that's assuming they have the money required to escape those shitholes in the first place.

>>133885452
Meanwhile drug prices drop through the floor when Medicare is no longer around to pay $50 for your daily xanax.

Pro tip: pills don't cost $50 to make.

ITT: conservashits think they understand the economy

>>133885539
The mark would be a wearable smart watch.

Hardly satanic.

>>133885735
Why are there so many retards on this thread?
Pills cost $50 to develop the next pill you moron

>>133885057

I have four. Foster to my niece and nephew, and I picked up their neighbors too.

Children are easy. They choose what you want and you can feed ten the same thing. It doesn't require extra work to add another pound of beef to the spaghetti sauce.

You can even boss them around and make them help you.

Same people that said children are hard to raise are the ones who said algebra was hard, those people are retards.

>>133885595
I am saying that Americans and Germans work the least hours, that's all i am saying, you aren't efficient, you are bunch of warmongers that haven't produced anything, you stolen everything, you ruin everything, you are so fat you can't lose weight, don't tell me you work hard. Every low IQ transforms into high IQ when it gets promised million dollar salary. You know who works hard? Greece. Americans haven't worked hard a day in their life.

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>>133879232
I have an idea.

How about we cull everyone that refuses to work and then we just don't tax people that much.
Or we still cull people and spend all that extra welfare money on this that are actually useful and can help bring about jobs.

>>133885726

That's total BS. There are opportunities if they wanted to start a business, pursue an education, or move.

People are just fucking lazy for the most part.

Threat of starving is what keeps most people working. Without it, you get no services or goods being made.

>>133885820
>The mark would be a wearable smart watch.

You don't wear a watch IN your right hand.

>>133885735
maybe if drug companies would stop showing adverts that show a list symptoms with the line "if you have these symptoms you need our drug" people would be less likely to go out and beg the doctor for a prescription.

>>133885878

>25% of the world's GDP

Stop trolling.

>>133885932
You sound like one of the robots

>>133879232
Once everyone on basic income everyone become slave to (((them))). Of course (((they))) are pushing it.

>>133885932
we need to cut foreign aid as well

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>>133879552

Trust us, goy meatbags.

>>133884893

In reality if you don't have the talent you'll never amount to shit no matter how much time you put in.

It didn't take long for Magnus Carlsen to become Grandmaster. It didn't take long for leffen to become a god, even after others had been playing for a decade.

Fact of the matter is if you can do it you can do it quickly if you can't do it you'll never be able to do it.

>>133885855
Only if you're including FDA vetting requirements which are inordinately expensive as development costs. Actual development is not that amount.

Do you REALLY think there is no profiteering at work here? The government is guaranteed to provide certain pills to the public. It's like the fucking railroads. They are going to pay for it whether it's $5 or $50.

proof: a guy without insurance who sometimes buys medicine at price from a pharmacy.

>>133879232
I'm a neet with money in the bank. If I Got a universal income I'd use it to start a business. Knowing that I'm not gonna end up in the gutter gives me confidence to use my creativity.

>>133879232
look how hard people on welfare work. They spend most of their day avoiding work to get their free check. Fuck this bullshit. Capitalism resembles the animal kingdom where only the strong reach the top and thats how it should be. Be happy with what you have in life. We all dont need to live in mansions and drive fancy cars.

>>133885980
That's why I sarcastically suggested the RFID chip first, but a smartwatch would be just as effective.

Unless you want to get a QR code to a bitcoin address tattoo'd on your right hand.

>>133885940
>start a business, pursue an education, or move
With what capital? Empty Mountain Dew bottles and crushed beer cans?

>>133879232
>basic income
>creates worst hyperinflation since the clusterfuck that is Zimbabwe

What a myopic, petulant, utterly worthless concept

>>133886124
Even if you abolished the FDA (which I support) you would need safeguards to prevent people being used like fucking test rats. Developing drugs will never be cheap.

>>133885384
They'll need incentives.

>>133882206
Hey, I used to live in Rathmines. Good times.

>>133885591
Good idea. Like beach front property.

>>133886003
Maybe if psychiatrists and medicine in general weren't pushing for more pharmacology, people wouldn't be on so many pills. What you're describing is just the government requiring them to list all side effects for commercial advertisements. It's industries reaction has been both effective and provides good meta humor. Nothing like dying with flowers and puppies in the background.

At any rate, most drugs are good and will save lives. But people are turning to mood drugs too often to resolve social ills.

>everyone suddenly has a basic guaranteed income
>everyone starts spending more money
>scarcity of items as production lags demand
>prices go up
>basic income no longer covers necessities
>more basic income is needed
>everyone gets more money
>everyone starts spending more money
>scarcity of items as production lags demand
>prices go up
>suddenly the amount of extra money gained from actually working is rendered not worth it
>skilled and high education job numbers plummet
>supply falls in critical markets like healthcare
>prices go up

>>133886038
>GDP
lol, yeah, 30% white currently, because constantly employing illegals. Capitalists don't work, they exploit until there's nothing more to exploit. Capitalists just talk about how hard they work, when all their fortune is based on 3rd world cheap materials where they lowered money values and GDP so that their intermediary business men can buy every material cheap. This meme that capitalistic bosses work hard is getting old, especially when countries are full of illegals niggers. Literally doing nothing else but exploiting.

>>133882768
auto

>>133886317
Incentives to do what?!

>>133879232
>Take money from small part of population
>Give to majority of population.
Gee I wonder why that's popular.
Look at us for a good example of that logic, even someone who earns our equivalent of minimum wage pays over 50% in taxes, of which about 20-25 is hidden.
If you've got a good job you pay upwards of 80%. Then the left complains about people moving away -.-

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>>133886314
>genetic waste shouldn't be used for the betterment of the species

>>133886248

Are you dumb? They still can get bank loans. They still have universities. They still have schools.

Wtf are you even talking about?

>>133879232
So if i make 10k a month currently, they will give me more money on top of that?

It's interesting how all these rich guys wanting to increase taxes/start generous welfare systems rarely include wealth taxes in their schemes.

>>133885940
Ever try starting a business in NY? I don't recommend it. Better to be on welfare, sadly.

>>133879232
>drop in homelessness
>implying new units won't be rented out at prices adjusted with UBI in mind

>>133881857
Then go and give money and help to the handicapped person yourself, instead of voting to have other people perform charity in your stead.
UBI is about an optimal redistribution system, not about muh feeling.

>>133879232
I'm sympathetic to the idea of UBI and think it is a solution to a good number of our problems (though I do have reservations), but seeing Zuckerburg back it just makes me want to oppose it entirely. The guy is just toxic to whatever he gets involved in

>>133879232
>increase the height of the floor by X metres
>everything that was sitting on the floor also raises in elevation by X metres
Well, metaphorically speaking, it will allow poorfags to buy 1 unit of necessities rather than having 0 units, even though you really need to get a job and obtain 100 units of necessities to live.

>>133886421
Prices would only go up if government borrowing increased.
What's actually going to happen is people who want to earn more than the UI will leave the country

Yet another ploy by (((Globalists))) to get the masses hooked on the government teat. With a global banking system already in place, all that is needed is the global government to go along with it. This is why we're getting buried in debt, eventually each countries government will be asked to cede power to a global unelected cabal in exchange for debt forgiveness.

>>133886417
>to list all side effects for commercial advertisements
>symptoms that the drug treats
fellow burger, you shame us all.

>>133886314
We are already used as test rats, amigo. There are no long-term studies on many drugs on the market taken daily by millions. We are operating on the assumption that these are not dangerous in the short term, and there's little to no suggestion they are dangerous in the long term.

But short-term human trials should be allowed, as long as the participants are adults who consent. Give them compensation for taking a risk and releasing the company from endemity.

Consumer watchdog groups do the rest.

>>133886522
No, infact you'd be one of those people they'd demand 12K a month from to pay for everyone elses welfare, that's how it works.

>>133884744

A coreographed scene from a man who was an exceptional talent and died young, well before he was able to gain a lifetime of experience.

https://youtu.be/3dR4MEUDHa0

Its fake m8. Even if it wasnt, he didn't train for thousands of hours to be able to do this, you sent me a video about talent over time.

>>133886576

Start a business in a low cost of living area.

>But but muh living standard!

Tough shit.

>>133886117
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point my friend. I will say that there are many types of Mastery, and yes, there are always prodigies.

>>133886421
>skilled and high education job numbers
Hahaha, goyim, that's why we're pushing for open borders! All the lazy white goy don't want to work, so we'll import Doctor Ahmed as a janitor.

>>133879232
The moment you give someone something, you disincentivize them actually working on their own value to support themselves.

Where as the smart people, the ones who go on to be wealthy, constantly invest in themselves and make more money year on year.

if you want to lower the wage gap you have to help the poor people actually increase their value, giving them money literally doesn't help.

The moment you give loads of money to poor stupid people, rich people find a way to get them to spend it on useless shit.

>>133886666
Umm wtf, so i have to give up all my money so some lazy nigger tier people can get money for free? LMFAO, good luck getting this shit to go through

>>133881077
Sounds good on paper, same argument were used for all other welfare before it. I have a suspension that it'll back fire spectacularly.

>>133879232
Isn't welfare de-facto an univesral income?

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>>133883799
>get free money
That's not how this works. Please develop an understanding of government finance and monetary economics, particularly central bank monetary operations, before voicing long-disproved flat earth theories of government debt financing.

>wrong
I'm the opposite of wrong, though. Despite the countereconomic opinions of the Forbes editorial board, single-payer systems produce the same health outcomes at half the cost of the American system of enriching Jew-owned insurance companies. What you're mistakenly calling "rationing" is imposed cost competition and in fact not rationing in any way at all. The data on this is so widely available and well-known I'm baffled anyone would dispute attempt to dispute it, especially in particular pharmaceutical pricing.

>cartoon dick chop
I have absolutely no idea what in the fuck you're attempting to communicate here, but the notion that welfare reform is impossible is flatly incorrect, and the notion that altering family formation incentives is somehow government-mandated dick-chop control is so stupid I can only presume you're fat.

>>133886657
If you're saying commercial advertisement is the problem per se, I would disagree. Ultimately it's the responsibility of doctors who provide perscriptions. They are the ones with people whispering in their ears. Advertisements are out in the open. Trying to bar advertisement is just statist censorship, so instead, advocate people turning to community instead of pharmacology.

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Where all this is headed

>>133882818
Neck yourself, you uneducated monkey.

>>133886652
ayy lmao!

>>133886623
>if
m8, that's guaranteed

>>133886522
Of curse everyone gts a basic income :^)

But you'll just have o pay more than it back because that's fair

>>133886459
Develop new ideas / skills to advance us even further.

Can we just abolish wellfare and let the poor die out?

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>>133886780
>a suspension that it'll back fire spectacularly
>a suspension

>>133884617
Jobs didn't move to China because chinese people needed work, they moved to China because it's cheaper to produce there and the laws against shitting in the nature is close to non-existing.
China are working hard to push the advancement of manufacturing robots because it pushes down the labor costs and increases the production speed. Just look at the new factories being built in China by Tesla, Ford, etc etc. They are FILLED with hundreds of robots while they employ like 20 human engineers to make sure everything works fine.

Also, the most common jobs in for example america are, cashiers, waiters, janitors and cleaners, customer service, salespersons, nurses, stock mover laborers, bookkeeping, truck drivers, etc etc.
Are you saying that the AI won't get advanced enough in your lifetime to handle a majority of those jobs? (based on the idea that you're under 30). That's ridiculous.

>>133885648

But short of launching EMP attacks on every major city, that's the direction things are going, like or not. As automation makes menial jobs (even customer service- it's already happening) redundant, there are just fewer and fewer jobs for unskilled labor.

Soon there will be none. Zero. There won't even be cash, if the credit companies get their way (and they will- google 'Visa 10k cashless'. VISA is literally offering cash handouts to any company who goes completely cashless). So there won't be side jobs or shit like that going on under the table- all cash transfers will be electronic, and thus traceable and, of course, taxable. You won't even be able to give a couple bucks to the homeless guy at the party store anymore. You have no bucks to give, and he probably has no way to accept an EFT. He's just gonna starve.

So while a universal basic income is a terrible fucking idea, all the alternatives are even worse. Soon there won't be any place for unskilled labor. And there is no alternative solution, short of a final solution. 'More education is not the fucking answer. The world doesn't need 7 billion college graduates. The world doesn't even need 1 billion college graduates. Unless you're going into law or medicine, most degrees are just so much paper, whose only purpose is to tell potential employers 'Hey, this guy is a tool of the system and is massively in debt, so he'll probably do whatever you tell him because he can't afford not to'.

>the elite wants communism for the poor while they enjoy capitalism

Wow I'm so shocked.

I imagine that there will be people who waste the money and vote for politicians who will compensate them more, leading to a necessity to work if you want a good life.

People say "now that everyone gets money, they can be blamed for their troubles." Is society or the government REALLY going to let that single mother starve? No, they'll take your money

>>133879232
we dont have healthcare, roads, trains or even clean drinking water to a good enough standard, we are never, ever going to provide something like basic income

>>133886830
>it's the responsibility of doctors who provide perscriptions
this is partially true, however, people do try to "doctor shop" for anyone with a MD to give them a script.

>They are the ones with people whispering in their ears
drug companies do the same to the doctors, and pharmacists.

>>133886840
Well its good to here that UBI will never happen, rich people arent fond of giving all their money to lazy fucks.

>>133886690
You didn't answer my question and don't put words in my mouth.

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>net neutrality
>become dependent on the government
>universal income
>become dependent on the government
>universal healthcare
>become dependent on the government

It amazes me people cant see through this shit

>>133886839
>ancom flag
>thinking he has the right to mock anyone else when he is quite literally a drooling retard.

>>133886840
>m8, that's guaranteed
That's the current system, but just saying the increased budget doesn't necessarily lead to inflation. It only does so if there is more borrowing.
It's the borrowing that leads to inflation, and the spending that leads to borrowing.

>>133886838
>implying welfare is getting bigger with bigger inflation
Just more capitalistic bullshit. Greece has no welfare, they don't have money to buy containers for milk for their goats. If welfare is so good, then why do they have to prostitute themselves? Capitalistic fairy tales.

>>133887042
The rich will just make the middle classes and the ones slightly above poverty to pay for it, exactly like they do with welfare now.

>>133886820
>What you're mistakenly calling "rationing" is imposed cost competition and in fact not rationing in any way at all.
And I'm out. That's the most idiotic euphemism I've ever read.

Bro, rationing has never been tried before! It wasn't real rationing!

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>>133887042
You're right, I'm sure we have nothing to worry about.

>>133879696
Underrated

>>133879477
If there is to be ubi it should be when this guys says it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_a5p3WrZOs&t=1476s

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>>133879232
Well I hope you niggers enjoy dying in plane crashes because there is no way I'm going to work 14 hour shifts during the weekends doing stressful maintenance on planes so you lazy faggots can fly around the world on my tax dollars.

>>133886752

I have plenty of evidence of people becoming Masters in very few hours. You aren't disagreeing with an idea, you are disagreeing with a mountain of evidence.

Go look at the poker boom in the mid-2000s. Internet players with almost no experience live were crushing the WSOP. People with decades of experience and bracelets were getting shredded.

Talent is what matters.

>>133881077
automation isn't just "a robot making your car", it's all the changes in organization, like international trade contracts who are now handled by a bunch of automated systems talking to other automated systems. Or things like service industries where the customer now goes through an automated system to order stuff instead of talking to a receptionist.

It's everywhere.

>>133887072

>get rid of all that
>people have to take care of themselves
>most of them fail miserably and end up screaming for social assistance anyway

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that the vast majority of the populace is any more intelligent than the ape in that photo.

All you have to do is look at the fate of most lottery jackpot winners to realize that you could literally hand these pavement apes the world on a silver platter and they'd still manage to spill all the food.

>>133886939
>As automation makes menial jobs (even customer service- it's already happening) redundant, there are just fewer and fewer jobs for unskilled labor.


This is why we need a WW3 or a new epidemic. Or better yet, stop helping useless people. I'm okay with giving aid to those who work and still can't pay the bills cuz companies offer shitty wages but ANYONE with a EBT card that doesn't work for a stupid reason needs to be cut out from existence.

>>133886939
I think we'd appreciate it if you'd develop your thought's a bit more thoroughly, anon.

>>133886931
Yes, service industry jobs will be the hardest to replace because they demand the most human interaction and "inauthentic" interaction is bad for business. Look into how advanced photo-recognition technology is and imagine how to apply it to sensing discomfort or dissatisfaction or identifying theft or something. It's not even close to plausible anytime soon.

I've toured the factories in China, they are not automated on the whole and not any in the markets producing small consumer goods, raw materials processing, or clothing and textiles.

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>>133879232
get rid of ALL social programs and we'll talk

>>133887438
Society would be stronger if we just stopped giving shitty people assistance.

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The future if we go along with this madness (from the movie The Congress)

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>>133879232

Giving people "basic income"(Essentially just Welfare & rewarding/paying people for merely existing) isn't going to matter with Humanity getting phased out for Machines in the long run.

[Threads: http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/]

Phasing Humanity out is part of the Trans-Humanists Agenda(Talked about this in the Globalist Endgame thread) & human life will be very cheap with Artificial Wombs.

>>133887176
I don't see how we can stop at this point. We're not willing to cut anything and just want to keep spending more and more. Even the idiots who say they want cuts end up signing off on more spending.

>>133886939
I have discussed before that the automatuon boogey man is not real.

Yes many things can be automated but the reality is that even some jobs that can are not feasible with automation.

The infrastructure and cost for automation is both ridgid and massive. (Like my dick 'rimshot')

The result is that automation cannot keep pace with trends or market forces. Even the sacred cow of automation 3D printing is unable to priduce goods quickly or cheaply enough to fill any role outside of prototyping and niche fields.

The reality is human based labour is far too flexible to be replaced. Soon what we will begin to see is high tech tool and production planning mated with a new generation of skilled labor beating both large scale automation and large acale manual labor.

That is the future.

>>133887037
>>They are the ones with people whispering in their ears
>drug companies do the same to the doctors, and pharmacists.
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Glad we're in agreement here.

>this is partially true, however, people do try to "doctor shop" for anyone with a MD to give them a script.
ultimately it's up to concerned citizens whether this is a problem. there's been a lot of media about "pill mills" and the supposed epidemic of pain medicine. Frankly I think being free of pain is probably the most noble medical goal right now, absent methods of curing it outright. It's just asinine to crusade against pain medicine in this fashion. The mob literally has no idea what it wants from drug companies. It's all mixed up in populist rhetoric about how they prey on us, how we are less than human to them. Lab animals at best. And yet without them, most of us would die of the first serious disease or injury we receive.

In a perfect world, drug companies would be loved and this lack of animosity would encourage transparency and openness on the part of the company. Accidents would be remembered but forgiven. The road of human progress is littered with bodies.

>>133886939
its literally orwells novel coming to reality well some parts of it we arent off the cliff yet, but wasent fully electronic payments in the novel. Besides that our economic system is already off the cliff but hidden from the public if i presume they will pull the line and everything will explode including china europe and russia, then war might happen then ubi possibly unless they make a world currency then some what of a ubi system but theres a catch you have to follow the rules aka the one cash chip in your hand, dont follow the command it gives you you get a deadly dose of cyanide which you die instantly, im not even making the chip shit up you die they caught them putting cyanide in the chips you dont follow every command you die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoWV52C4HI

>>133879232
I would be fine with this, as long as every American citizen gets the same amount, not just lazy nigs and lazy wigs.

>>133887432
Of course talent matters. I'm not disagreeing with that. I don't know what you're arguing about now.

I person with limited talent, over time, can require mastery. If you disagree, then that's fine. I don't have to prove my point to you.

>>133887487
There needs to be a minimum level of contribution to humanity people must meet otherwise they're sterilized. This would mean most of the 3rd world would go so I'm ok with that.

>>133887587
It's actually the other way around. They need to print at ever accelerating rates to keep the scam going which requires more spending

>>133881617
>well-off people never push themselves hurr durr
Objectively wrong.
Most people who are successful entrepreneur or high-end professionals come from privileged backgrounds, not from the fucking ghetto.

Americans are completely irrational when it comes to that stuff, it's pretty crazy.

>>133882072
Peterson is an absolute don, I've watched this entire lecture series and most of his other videos now. He has a interesting take on his videos that have shifted my opinion somewhat on things like UBI.

In another video he talks about the perils of being too rich. If you live in a world where a huge number of people can't earn a living then they're going to come after the rich people, and rich people will have to spend a very large amount of money defending their wealth, which eventually becomes a losing games.

So it's really a case of do you voluntarily give the unwashed masses a UBI which is just enough so they don't rebel and kill you all. Or do you spend even more money on defending your riches and living paranoid that somoene will eventually kill you or take your shit.

Eventually those 2 numbers balance out and it just makes sense to take the non-violent option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsRLVZTYpGo

This is another good clip of his from the same lecture series talking about the Pareto distribution, something everyone should learn IMO. And about how even a simulation of perfectly even probability trading can lead to 1 person with all the wealth. That is to say wealth inequality is going to exist independent of difference of skills/IQ/ability.

So i'm generally against UBI and min wage as they fuck with the economy, but taken to its logical conclusion it maybe an inevitable thing we have to deal with. And lets face it, most people who are middle class or above already have enough money to live happily. Yet another video of his discusses, this happiness vs money bottoms out really fast, after you've got enough to pay bills and some luxuries.

>>133879685
Gonna fund the WN movement desu

>>133887807
>more printing
and there's more inflation and there's higher prices.

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>>133879232
only one thing can prevent this:

>colonization of mars

>>133887438

Like everything it's a balance, it's great the government can stop niggers from shooting everyone but at the same time I don't want them dominating every aspect of my life.

>>133887416
>flying a plane
What are drones?

Could it work? Maybe. It's just another step of their agenda.

>replace humans with robots
>low costs for the robots
>spend the rest on basic income

Fucked up idea. I really hate the idea of basic income.

Wall-E is not that weird.

>>133879860
Yes a welfare state. After they have brought all the third world hungry mouths

Much automation meme. People want high standard of living without working. This is achieved by taking money from working people who produce wealth. So much for much proletariat, lets just get free stuff.

>>133880793
>finite
Kind of, but not 100%. We're on fiat currency, and a private bank (the federal reserve in the US) just prints as much as they want.

It's just there to make sure that we have some way to track debt, a way to encourage people to do the things they have to to keep our civilization working. It's a way to give people who put in some way of keeping track of what they draw back out.

The finance industry, stock market, all those things are really just extra-- we could *PROBABLY*, (not definitely) do away with a lot of that if we had to, but it would leave a lot of people with highly competitive temperaments (and without any other creative drives or aspirations) with nothing to do.

>>133887270
There is no rationing, though. That's just a thought-negating cliche dreamed up by the insurance industry to protect their monopoly.

Have you ever looked at a medical bill before? $85 for a moist towelette. This is where imposed cost control is applied by every single-payer system: cost + 10%, a fucking HUGE margin which reduces the consumer cost of the moist towelette to about $1. But let's maintain our system of Jew-owned insurance providers, bro! Healthcare economies only produce market failure instead of efficiency due to the principal-agent, monopoly, and adverse selection problems, but let's keep doing it, bro! Rothbard, bro!

Do you know what I do for a living? I'm a bankruptcy attorney. 75% of my clients are middle class medical bankruptcies, people who never missed a premium, never went out and got cancer on purpose, never got hit by a fucking illegal spic drunk driver on purpose, yet all of them will end up losing half of everything they've ever earned because of fucking faggots like you. I honestly hope you get what you want, so I can fucking laugh in your face when you're getting stripped of everything you have by a medical biller. All so some fucking kike parasite can fly aroud the Hamptons in a helicopter.

How would credit and loans work? Under universal basic income is there any threat of going bankrupt?

I know what every negro beast is going to do when the cheques come rolling in.

>>133881077
Listened to a radio program about UBI. The idea is that you can eliminate the 70 or so agencies that dole out free cash. No more medicare, welfare, discount bus tickets, etc. Everyone gets cut a $1000 check at the first of the month. With that, they pay for they're previously free shit.

This will make working a 30hr/wk minimum wage job that much more appetizing. It'd be supplementary income. Less stress, permanent lower class. Middle class would see their $1000 check as the supplementary, so it's win/win.

The overall free monies would be higher, but less agencies would mean less administrative costs. Throw in the social engineering side, and you got an experimental cure to class warfare.

>>133887738
Talent is just 1 factor, it's the ability to do 1 specific thing very well. However most of the high paying jobs are ones in which people are paid to be able to think quickly and adapt to ever changing set of circumstances. And for that you need a good IQ and IQ is one of the best predictors of future life success and also one of the hardest things to improve, it's basically impossible to improve it, it's only possible to reduce it less.

>>133887434
I know what automation is, dude. And I know that a lot of currently existing occupations will not exist in a decade or so, many of them within my own profession (law). I also remember the promises of the flying car and 35-hour work week. People will just do different things for a living. If you would've told anyone 15 years ago that thousands of tramps would pull in six-figures from posting crack shots in Instagram, they probably would've laughed.

>>133887738

I am saying that you have no evidence of this. Nobody notable got there over a long period of time. They are ALWAYS exception talents from the start.

The only time you find someone older is if they started late.

This is important because it's a Crux of the basic income argument. People think that if we have more time we'll have more excellent works of art and beauty. This isn't true because anyone who was capable of making art would have showed prowess from the very beginning, and the adversity would have driven them to achieve more.

>>133887586
Welcome back, Anon5.

>>133887853
>Someone will kill you and take all your shit
Mate, rich people aren't dragons sitting on piles of gold. Billionaires could pay a private army to defend them with the inrerest from thier bank accounts alone. All their wealth is electronic, it literally cannot be stolen. The only people who will get it in the neck are the middle class and upper middle class just like always. The truely rich and powerful will be untouchable. Peterson is ok, but he seems to have only a surface level understanding of certain subjects.

>>133888241
Citibank can't go bankrupt, no matter how bankrupt they are and how many financial crisis they cause, so why should i go bankrupt?

>>133887619
>Frankly I think being free of pain is probably the most noble medical goal right now, absent methods of curing it outright.

problem is that people might be outright lying about their pain/severity, and asks for more and more.

the rest i can agree for the most part, but we don't live in a perfect world. people like Martin Shkreli exist.

>>133881077
>UBI essentially removes all dysgenic features of our current welfare net schemes while also eliminating absolute poverty and will not cost any more than we're already spending.
Can anyone explain a bit more on how it will remove, rather than create more dysgenic effects?

Also, how would it affect "diverse" populations?

>>133888318
>Cutting medicare
The rest makes sense but you can't cut medicare. That $1000 check means didly squat when hospital bills go into the hundred thousands.

>>133887649
>you'd be fine with the accelerated degeneration of our money's value

>>133887837

I promise you that those people don't push themselves either.

The whole process is just simple for them.

>>133888012
>it's great the government can stop niggers from shooting everyone
they can't even do that apparently

>>133888318
As a person who has lived on $750 a month I can say it's entirely possible. Car payments are not. You can't spend almost half of your income on luxury transport, not in a city with public options and walking distances.

I used a bike and my feet for almost 10 years with great success. I have a car now and it sure is easier, but I bought it cash money, one transaction, personal. Leasing, new or used as a poor person is just crazy.

>>133888318
Dude, I totally and completely covered that within my first post. I've read Friedman's C+F. I know exactly what UBI is and why he conceived it. We're long past that point in the convo.

>>133888449
>six-figures from posting crack shots in Instagram
yeah nah everyone won't be a youtuber/Instagram whore. Fame is a very, very limited resource.

>People will just do different things for a living.
People have been repeating that same old tired argument for decades now. How has it been working so far?

There's always the flipside of completely deleting currency with a Barter Escrow Exchange.

A service the enables its users to trade goods and services for other goods and services without the need for subjective quantitative measurements in value.