Anyone else swallowed the blue pill in the 80's?

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Crap I knew I should have gone with a more click bait title and picture. Damn you pol!

>>133727198
>>133728439
It's not the title or the pic both caught my eye, I was born in the early 90s so I can't relate, as a matter of fact most people on this board are going to be too young to have been aware during the 80s if born at all

I too remember the acid rain scare. Much like the current global warming scare, they always need to keep people in fear so thier attention does not stay on the powers that be, and the job they are doing.

I can distinctly remember the Weekly Reader that we had to take turns reading aloud in class. Was like a little news paper for kids. And one section I was called on to read warned that AIDS was likely to become an airborne disease in just a few short years! Of course this was 30+ years ago.

But we still get disease scares every few years. Gotta stoke the fear engine!

>>133727198
They are already doing the same thing with "global warming". It's "climate change" now. So if anything unusual happens, they can blame it on white industry.

>>133727198
I grew up in the 2000s and swallowed the red pill very early thanks to all the shit around my generation

The 9/11 generation will either be very redpilled or complete drug addicts

>>133727198
We introduced sulfur scrubbers in all industrial coal-burning powerplants, you big faggot. The problem was solved because actual scientists described the problem and introduced policy to fix it.

>What is low-sulphur diesel?
>What is a catalytic converter?
They curbed a specific type of pollution which in turn reduced the problem.

Remember the ozone layer stripped on the Southern Hemisphere?

Massive reductions in ChloroFlouroCarbons have allowed the ozone layer to replenish itself.

Guess what? We're still using cars, trucks, coal and aerosol now more than ever. Not everything is a globalist plot.

>>133727198
Yep. Especially pushed in NY. We were shown how the acid rain was destroying our statues. More than acid rain, Global Cooling was the big issue. We were told that a new ice age was coming. How did they get it so wrong in ten years time and why she we rely on the same science telling us about the inevitability of Climate Change? I'm not a denier but I am somewhat of a skeptic having been blue-pilled to think the opposite was true when I was a kid.

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They first used sulfuric acid in Geoengineering ..Now its Aluminum

DDT, acid rain, ozone holes, global warming... what's next?

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>>133729824
No one has done any stratospheric aerosol geoengineering yet, you massive faggot, and sulfuric acid certainly won't be used as it catalyzes ozone depletion reactions. If you look at SAGE2 or AURA MLS or even TOMS output, you'll see that aerosol optical density has only been highly perturbed during the years following Pinatubo (1991 - 1993) when natural volcanic sulfate cooled the surface of the earth by about 2 degrees Celsius while simultaneously destroying about ten percent of the ozone column in the northern Hemisphere midlatitudes.

yea i remember that shit, what a fucking joke. death to jews.

>>133727198

>acid rain

I remember this too. People saying thats why men went bald was due to the acid rain eating the hair way. Of course I was a child and didn't ask "why weren't the womens hair melting away too?"

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>>133729824
And why would they use aluminum? The current state of the art is calcite (pic related). And no, they haven't deployed this in an atmospheric experiment yet.

>>133729071
The 9/11 generation is really redpilled, at least the males, and that's all that matters.

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>>133730885
Ooooooook Dipshit

>>133727198
They moved on and went with global warming, now climate change. Wonder what their next spin will be to steal taxpayer money?

>>133729326
This.

Pollution was much worse during the 80's

Another theory was that leaded gasoline was the reason for increased crime in the 70's and 80's. Direct correlation. Maybe people in urban areas were getting brain damage from leaded gasoline emissions? Probably not, but nobody is complaining that they banned that shit.

>>133731223
is that what happened to the ozone layer?

>>133731223
David Keith the one who proposed spraying sulfuric acid ? google the video Faggot

>>133731365
Midlatitude ozone is recovering but was never highly depleted. The seasonal Antarctic ozone hole still exists and will still exist until 2070 at least because of the long atmospheric lifetime of halons and chlorofluorocarbons and the chinks still releasing huge amounts of dichloromethane because they're chinks. The first Arctic ozone hole manifest itself in 2011... And more are expected as climate change produces a colder stratosphere, allowing for NAT PSC formation.

>>133727198
and spray cans eating the ozone layer

>>133731557
You're thinking of Paul Crutzen. Keith is against spraying sulfuric acid, which is why he's proposing calcite.

>>133728626
grad 2011 here, they're *still spouting that bull bro, not any different...

>>133731742 No I'm not... Yes he is/was

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>>133731261

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>>133731337
You could make a similar argument that the legalization of abortion decreased crime a generation later in the 1990s.

>>133731857
Keith argues that there may come a time when we have to intervene. He states that sulfuric acid would be a terrible thing because of associated ozone depletion. That's why the title of the article was "geoengineering without ozone loss" as in - not using sulfuric acid.

>>133729516
Yep sounds like we could have went to the same school

>>133727198
>So what ever happened to the acid rain story
Manufacturing plants were required to put anti-pollution devices on the exhausts of their businesses to convert the nitrogen (which was altering the Ph of the soil, due to it's acidity.) into sulphur, which didn't make nutrients unavailable to trees by altering soil ph.

Overpopulation was the world's biggest challenge just years ago. As soon as developed nations overcame it, it was time to replace them with a 'more fertile' people.

>>133729516
>Especially pushed in NY
That's because nitrogen was being spewed out of midwestern manufacturing facilites, where it got into the jet stream which brought it east killing the trees. Of course NY would be fucking mad, the Adirondack park was being ruined by midwest manufacturing pissing on their forests, killing them.

>>133727198
Don't forget about, muh ozone layer! Or, muh rainforest, how we gonna breeve with no rain forest? Global warming which turned to climate change is getting stale so my guess is we'll have a new Eco-boogeyman anytime now.

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>>133727198
>what happened?

What is scientific research, cross border agreements, and the Clean Air Act, which established the Acid Rain Program?

>>133732638
>how we gonna breeve with no rain forest
You realize destroying the planets carbon sinks might not be a good thing.

i really dont get this climate denial stuff. obviously hman beings will not die off any time soon but i can see things changing around me and my country. so it is happening. but its not as immediate or dangerous as the doom people say. denying things just because crazies said it is not very smart. the climate is changing the sun is getting hotter so we got to do some thing. no coal no solar may be better non pollutant batteries or safer nuclear tech.

>>133732610
More or less correct, except it was mainly sulfur that caused the problem, not nitrogen. Nitrogen oxides cause tropospheric ozone by rapidly cycling with organic alcohols.. and this causes photochemical smog among other things.

>>133729071
they're very red pilled degenerate drug addicts

it's both

>>133728821
>Gotta stoke the fear engine!
working on it anon :D for you!

>>133732886
I'm actually in favor of protecting the environment by prosecuting polluters and enacting some relations to protect what we can. However, the multi-trillion dollar scam known as the Paris Climate Accord is by it's own creators expected to do very little. So, I'm just being a bit flippant about the issue.

>>133733180
Those asshole are just trying to profit from problems. Never let a perfectly good disaster go to waste.

>>133732547
>Samefag here
...I don't doubt that further overpopulation would cause more problems. Nor that leveling population off isn't a good thing. On the contrary.

In fact I believe we should throw a big celebration for the fact that we've achived it in accross much of the globe and shown that it is possible.

Of course some nations have gone too far in this regard and no boubt that will bring its own challenges. But with automation threatening jobs, one would think this might be a natural fit.

>>133727198
>Acid rain

Good question. The acid rain meme. At one time an unavoidable term. In every headline. Your mention of it here is the first time that I have heard or even though of the phrase in donkey's years. That's funny. Goes to show, doesn't it?

>>133727198


This is how stupid half of this "Redpill" stuff is.

"Hurr Durr, the cataclysm didn't happen so it was all a lie"

No, you fucking moron. Before the left in the US went full crazy they were and still had key issues where they stood for principles of the sane. Acid rain was one of them. The people demanded a change in which chemicals were able to be pumped into the atmosphere in terms of sulfur content and low and behold: The government regulated their use and the cases of corrosive acid rain drastically decreased. We still get some rare cases but its not nearly as common place.


There is a reason that every intellectually honest non-AnCap crazy right-winger says things like:

"My grand-dad was a staunch Democrat but today he would be an Independent or a Moderate Conservative" The Overton Window simply shifted.

just another government scheme to make their friends rich
the problem with libtards is that they are so fucking stupid they don't see it
all you have to do is appeal to their emotions, throw in a few celebrities, and bam, they can't stop talking about it.

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>>133727198
Oldfag here born 1972
I remember the acid rain crap
I always thought it was scary when I was little thinking it would literally rain super corrosive acid that would eat my flesh
And then the coming ice age due to man made global cooling
I also grew up not far from Love Canal so that was huge news but I don't remember too much propaganda about that
That was just stupid planning

>>133727198
acid rain was still a topic when I was growing up mid-90's

>>133728626
Really? I was born in '95 and I got taught about acid rain and I remember being pretty concerned with it and then it was never, ever mentioned again

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>I don't know what sulfur dioxide is
>I don't know what nitrogen oxides are

It's like this thread is sponsored by a coal mining company. Kek.

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>>133733466
>That's funny. Goes to show, doesn't it?
It goes to show environmental issues can be fixed. It's important not to let the "elites" use the environment to bleed us. Just think of how things went from derision (treehuggers) to serious (the paris accords) they try to find social causes they can profit from because they have "the will of the people" behind them.

>>133734224
same

probably havent heard of it since the 90s

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>>133734111
The "acid rain crap"... what does that mean? are you denying that acid rain was occurring? are you denying that the steps taken to reduce sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides resulted in less acid rain?

>>133734422
If it's really so cut and dried the they ought to make more of this. As a morale booster, general shot in the arm. Might go some way toward countering the hopelessness that a lot feel with regards to government. Although I'm not sure if elite tiers in society want to encourage input from the masses.

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>>133734467
Lets be real, Cletus probably thinks Chemistry is a liberal arts degree.

>>133734422
>it goes to show that environmental issues can be fixed

through scientific research, public pressure, regulations and international agreements?

>>133734111
>Love Canal
>That was just stupid planning
No that was corruption.


NIAGARA FALLS — Thirty-five years after Love Canal’s oozing toxic waste scared away a neighborhood and became a symbol of environmental catastrophe, history could be repeating itself.

New residents, attracted by promises of cleaned-up land and affordable homes, say in lawsuits that they are being sickened by the same buried chemicals from the disaster in the Niagara Falls neighborhood in the 1970s.

“We’re stuck here. We want to get out,” said 34-year-old Dan Reynolds, adding that he’s been plagued by mysterious rashes and other ailments since he moved into the four-bedroom home purchased a decade ago for $39,900.

http://nypost.com/2013/11/02/love-canal-still-oozing-poison-35-years-later/#

>>133727198
Basically what happened was American scientific illiteracy. Acid rain is a real thing. It happens, it's because of pollution, and it has devastated plenty of eco-systems. However, unlike the American-idiot's misconception of rain that melts your face, acid rain actually means rain with a low PH balance (acidic), and the primary damage it causes is to water systems and infrastructure built with concrete.

It is a giant problem. It's affecting soil, fresh-water fish, sidewalks and buildings. It isn't something that is easily noticeable, because it takes years to have an impact. And neither you nor I can tell the difference between acidic rain and not-acidic rain.

>>133729150

That and also the ozone hole.

>>133727198
I was born upstate NY at the foothills of the Adirondacks. Half the park was dead/dying in the 90s, the whole Adirondack Northway was lined with dead swamps on either side because of the acid rain.

While the overall look has recovered quite a bit due to the efforts of the NY DEC (Dept of Environmental Conservation) and the pollution laws enacted, they still have to manually stock game fish multiple times a year in every lake/river, damn fishing license costs have increased 500% in the past decade.

If the pond/lake isn't easily accessible (like beautiful remote lakes at the end of a hike) it's essentially dead aside from a few hearty creatures like frogs or sunfish. The Asian Carp (introduced by retard in the 1800s) is resilient to pollution and has had zero competition, which really makes it incredibly difficult to get those gamefish populations back up, even though the water quality has recovered.

>>133729516

Climate will always change. Thats why they dropped Global Warming for Climate Change.

>>133728439
Lmao what the fuck, how would that work? It only rained in those small areas?

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>>133729150
>>133734721
>>133734405

>>133735185
Incorrect. Global warming is measurably occurring and caused by humans. American conservatives, forced to address the issue, began referring to it as "anthropogenic climate change" because Americans are stupid and things that are technical-sounding are easy for them to ignore, because they're too stupid to understand. Scientists and people on the left agreed with the conservative, more-technical description, and simply embraced it. That's why the term changed.

>>133730885

Guy at MIT just got prrmission to use 25 gulfstream jets to spray some sulphur aerosol for a geoengineering study.

>>133735185
nobody denies that the climate always changes. Why don't you actually read what people are saying instead of thinking you're smarter than everyone?

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>>133734734
Here is an idea...why don't all of you lazy fucking humans pick up one bag of trash off the planet a month. 84 billion bags of trash a year, a trillion over a decade. It doesn't require any government intervention, it would shut them down and confuse them until they figured out how to take credit for it.

>>133729150
So when are we going to stop describing the problem of global warming, and start throwing money at engineers that can actually fix it.

>>133735236

Those are swamps/marshes, while they do act as sorts of filters water doesn't pass through them as quickly as a lake/stream and so they become overwhelmed quickly and essentially choke out the plants/vegetation.

>>133727198
>So what ever happened to the acid rain story?

We did something about it, and now it's not as as bad as it used to be.

>>133731337

Lead absolutely has an effect on criminality.

>>133734987
>And neither you nor I can tell the difference between acidic rain and not-acidic rain.
Sure you can, collect it and test the Ph anon.

>>133735495
It's a complex problem. The post you're responding to is literally an example of exactly what you're asking "when" on. So the answer is "since the 1980s." It's a big problem without a single, magical solution.

>>133727198
Yeah aside from acid rain, we had mysterious "Waldsterben", an ever expanding ozon layer which would give everybody cancer and grill the oceans. All whales will go extinct by the year 2000 (nobody foresaw the whale epidemic, kek). The Sahel zone will grow so large that agriculture will become impossible in africa.

and many other classics

>>133731709

They banned those aersols and use others. Ozone hole not an issue any more.

>>133729150
>>133729326
This. I'm glad at least some people on /pol/ are not complete and utter retards.

>HURR DURR REMEMBER THIS PROBLEM FROM A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO?
>IT'S NOT SUCH A BIG PROBLEM ANYMORE
>I GUESS IT WAS A GLOBALIST SCARE TACTIC, HUH?
>I'M SO FUCKING REDPILLED!

>>133735139
Oh yeah? I just got back from Queensbury yesterday. I was born and raised in Saratoga. I love the Adirondacks and I don't want them ruined.

>>133735576
Well sure. I just meant "acid rain" isn't something green, gooey and face-melting that smells like plastic and brimstone. It's just rain with a low PH balance. And, in the 80s in the USA, yellow-ish journalism sorta failed to make that clear because the headline wasn't exciting enough. Because scientific reporting isn't great.

>>133735477
>here's an idea
>just pick up garbage
>there's not too much garbage, we just need more garbage dumps

I pick up garbage all the time jackass. Not going to do a lot to keep the fish in the lakes edible if the local mill is emitting mercury into the atmosphere.

see>>133735272

>>133727198
In reality, it wasn't that big of a problem and the measures required to curb it were very simple.

We're lucky that we acted so soon, because acid rain wasn't a hoax like global warming.

>>133734467
Didn't your parents tell you not to be a retard in public?
I was replying to the op
Read the fucking op
When I was a kid I thought the story was that acid rain would eat me alive. I now know what it was.

>>133735742
I would be okay if acid rain just meant rain that had lsd in it.

>>133735477
What problem would that solve? 84 billion bags of trash a year still have to go somewhere. The problem of pollution isn't reducible to seeing a plastic wrapper stuck on a tree, you fucking retard.

>>133733719

This. Toxic identity politics destroyed the left.

>>133735777
Why does it require an international agreement to handle your shitty mill? Stupid leaf.

>>133727198
Acid rain is an example where environmental regulations actually reduced pollution and solved the problem in Europe /USA.

The problem activists face now is that industry is so clean, that they need to start making up problems and labeling beneficial gasses like CO2 as pollutants.

Yes, about 1990 noticed a drastic change in our teachers. Learned about the rainforest and how we were going to lose the entire rainforest in Brazil by 2000. For almost an entire year solid indoctrination. Also learned about AIDS, LA Riots, Gays before they were ever called (((LGBTQETC))) Indoctrinate at young ages, most probably never recovered.

>>133727198
Acid rain stopped being an issue because all the factories moved to China. Also, scrubbers on coal burning power plants

>>133734963
Again another retard.
I was posting what I saw as a little kid. I know what happened now. But back then I was a little fucking kid only worried about playing with my new Atari 2600.

>>133735863
>I was replying to OP!
>>133727198
>Acid rain was a big issue back then. All trees
and fish would die if we didn't do something about our environment.
(You):>Oldfag here. I remember all that acid rain crap

>>133727198
Acid rain, ozone layer, peak oil, it was all bullshit.

Everyone talking about the Clean Air Act isn't addressing the actual fact that acid rain wasn't a big problem to begin with. It was inflated to fuck and back for shackles by the Retarded Left.

>>133735742
Journalism in the 80s didn't really see the harm in exxagerating sciency stuff if it got people to "do the right thing".
Unfortunately that mentality leads to science doubt and general ignorance, as lying to people isn't very good scientific practice.

>>133735863
>When I was a kid I thought the story was that acid rain would eat me alive. I now know what it was.

So you were a dumb kid?

>>133735985
And since the 1990s we've had massive public-policy pushes to save rainforests and halt the HIV epidemic. The LAPD reformed.

It's not "indoctrination," you drooling idiot. It's working to solve problems.

>>133735882
>What problem would that solve? 84 billion bags of trash a year still have to go somewhere
Yeah...you're right...it's better to just leave it where it is, that's the practical solution, do nothing, because it's working so well and then let the people who caused the mess force legislation making you and I pay for the threat of an invisible gas, lol.

>>1337360
>>133736115
Kinda like 75 percent of the posters here? Yes

>>133727198
Hell as 82 kid I remeber this stuff beeing shown even here under commie regimie and in early 90`s.

Fucking CAPITAN PLANET ... when I look at its multi cultural cast now, fuck disgusting.

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>>133735919
>wind does not blow across national borders
>mercury emissions, sulfur dioxide from U.S. can't affect Canada

>>133736124
>the LAPD reformed
No, the Asians just left LA. They learned the truth about California politics the hard way.

>>133732610
>Adirondack park was being ruined

Actually acid rain makes lakes and ponds really nice to swim in - clear and sterile like a swimming pool. Much nicer than all that pond scum and weeds

>>133735985
>LGBTQETC
okay /pol/ same page time LGBTQAP NEVER FORGET THE (((P))) FOR PEDOSEXUAL.

>>133736210
>i don't understand scale: The post
The earth isn't as small as you think it is, leaf. No reason for large and invasive international agreements for you to deal with your fucking mills.

>>133728439
>acid rain.
You've come here because sulphur is the new pollutant of choice THEY are going to poison us with?

>>133736254
>Acid rain makes lakes like swimming pools, and that's a good thing
Kys

>>133736254

>Let's ruin an integral water environment to make it like a pool! It will be great!

>>133736216
That's not accurate. The Asian population of LA continues to grow. Korea Town is right where it was in 1992.

And actually it did massively reform. Read about the Rampart scandal. The LAPD in the 90s was ultra-corrupt. That show The Shield was based more-or-less on fact. The anti-gang units were fucking crazy.

>>133728821

It's been well proven that fear makes the populace consume more.

Fear is created to bolster the economy and make the rich, richer.

Acid Rain is a real thing, just because you didn't die from it doesn't mean it's not real.

>>133735391
Harvard will be using a balloon-borne drone to spray 1 kg of water, 1 kg of H2SO4, and 1 kg of calcite. MIT isn't in the game yet.

>>133736037

>Again another retard.
Says the fag with the Atari.

>>133727198
It was solved with scrubbers

Acidic coal exhaust, is bubbled through calcium carbonate to make gypsum

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>>133728821
>>133727198
>acid rain
>global warming
>peak oil
>labor shortage
>overpopulation
>immigration
>homosex


just a small part of Rockefeller & Assoc. manufactured hysteria to cull the population and profit

>>133736181
Your poor English makes us look bad, fellow Polak. You need to apply yourself or nobody will ever treat you seriously.

>>133736124
I didn't tell you the context of how any of those subjects were taught. It wasn't about finding a cure for HIV but teaching us that people with HIV are our new heroes.

>>133736472
Comodore 64 master race here.

>>133736101
It's not a scientific practice at all. Science is supposed to be about facts and details arrived to by a methodical and particular line of inquiry (the Scientific Method). A liar is by definition not a scientist.

>>133736327
The mill example was actually in response to a post about not requiring regulations; that all that was required was for me to pick up garbage.

But in fact, acid rain was a huge cross border issue, and led to cross border agreements between Canada and the U.S.. And mercury emissions to the air are a global problem.

>>133736552
Me too.

>>133728821
>Mexican flu
>pig flu
Oh yes, I comprehend the disease scare.

>>133736516
Give me fucking break today. Got rid of my wisdom tooth and still eating painkillers like candy.

>>133736634
>be burger
>get rid of wisdom teeth 15 years ago
>still taking painkillers like candy
>because still hurts

>>133736398
I'll admit my comment was a bit hyperbolic. Still, I don't think it is entirely accurate to imply their "reforms" solved the core issues that started the riots, which were race relation influenced.
I'm more of the idea that the Koreans wised up to the environment they found themselves in and either got political or got the fuck out.
Then again, the LA riots is what started the militarization of our police force. Can't really focus on one caveat of such a big event, I guess.

>>133736547
You don't have to tell me, retardasaurus--I was there. We focused on and worked on those issues.

>>133736181
>CAPITAN PLANET .
Hoggish Greedly.

>>133736366
Don't forget acid rain kills pests like mosquitos too. Mosquito and black-fly free crystal blue Adirondak swimming lakes... who says we can't improve on nature?

>>133728821
>>133727198
Didn't anyone tell all you people about the Hole in the Ozone Layer scare?
They passed a bunch of laws banning different chemicals only to find out later that holes in the ozone appear naturally and it was all nothing.
But I'm sure the people that invested in the newer 'environmentally safe' replacement chemicals made a fortune.

>>133733719
You forgot all jobs went to China

>Environmental regulations limit our freedom
>Slow down business
>Need less regulation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/static.theintercept.com/amp/new-teflon-toxin-found-in-north-carolina-drinking-water.html

You fucking Trump hacks miss the forest for the trees. Big business- Trumps specialty- is gonna fuck the remnants of the American dream in the ass with no lube

>>133728821
>But we still get disease scares every few years. Gotta stoke the fear engine!
During the recent Swine Flu hysteria Obama gave police powers to local health departments, just so you understand the real end game here.

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>>133736773
>who says we can't improve on nature?
Nice strawman; kys

I even remember some crappy 80s sitcom had an episode where some dumb cunt washes her hair with natural rain water and it turned green as a result. Hollywood at it's finest I guess.

>>133727198
acid rain was drempt up by nasa. it was to cover for the tree line receding . the atmosphere is thinning and as a result the highest point that plants can grow lowers over time. mountain climbers had started to notice a clean straight line of dead trees on some mountains.

the ph balance of the soil on the mountain sides hadnt changed however. this was proven like 2 decades ago

nasa has a growing list of things they have lied about. from jumbling the background radiation image of the big bang (there is a face in it . random chance or divine presence who cares they jumbled the images distributed to the public), the mid atlantic magnetic field anomaly which a few years ago even produced a aurora seen in florida and the anomaly was detected like 5 times by different research groups. its growing and at this point has reached america and last but not least oxygen level measurements. nasa claims there is no difference now at sea level EVERY one else says other wise

>>133736582
So how does agreements between bordering countries rationalize global agreements in Paris and Kyoto?
Why does France care about mills in canada/north US.

I understand your point and generally agree, I just am aware of how such agreements can be manipulated by people to gather power, using environmental concerns to convince the public to follow along.
There are too many people today who are willing to completely trust officials when they talk about environmental regulations, and those same politicians use this fact to slip corruption right under the people's noses.

Such environmental problems should be handled locally, with elevation only to the levels necessary. There is no need for Texas to be involved in a pollution dispute along the northern border, for example.

>>133736502
we were told that we passed peak oil more than a decade ago
>the rise in oil prices over the last decade was a result of the peak oil crisis
>shale oil utilized, price does not decrease
>already way past peak oil and Saudi declares it will dramatically increase oil supply, indefinitely
>shale business goes bust
>oil prices decline rapidly

all of a sudden peak oil propaganda magically disappears. we can close all the shale business and just rely on Saudi increased production once more.

i heard that the gov't actually subsidized production and purchase of gas-guzzling SUVs that get 10 miles per gallon. it is ironic that the increase in production and purchases of SUVs coincided with the peak oil crisis with dramatic rise in gas price.

it is absurd to see US going to war "for oil" because of "peak oil", "oil shortages", "oil price increases" and yet, at the same time they increase production of gas-guzzling SUVs, becoming the most common car on the road. The gov't even funded and subsidized purchases of SUVs for the population.

and at the same time: magically stop shale oil production, magically increase Saudi oil production, magically have dramatic oil price declines..

The bastards are at like 80% storage capacity in the Cushing storage facility despite shutting down almost 800 rigs. They've tried to keep those prices up, hard, shutting down rigs, "refinery maintenance", labor strikes, the works. Fuel prices are still up compared to crude.
All of this without even considering all the new crude found and the abandoned projects.
It was all a ruse and the Saudi's showed they're willing to fuck everyone over market share.


Oil/Energy Crisis ruse

California electricity crisis, also known as the Western U.S. Energy Crisis, was a situation in which the United States state of California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by market manipulation by big corporations like Enron

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>>133737060
>drempt up by nasa
>drempt
>acid rain was drempt up by nasa
Invasion of America when?

>>133727198
Acid rain was real. The regulations that forced catalytic converters on cars and more strict emissions controls on factories and coal fixedit.

The hole in the ozone was real, then regulations on chemicals fixed it. Ozone is naturally replenished by lightning.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty red pilled when it comes to politics. But holy fucking shit most of /pol/ seems to be completely fucking retarded when it comes to anything involving science.

So what is killing the trees on the Massachusetts-Connecticut border then?

Both evergreens and deciduous are dying.

>>133737141
Nobody said it was going to wipe out all life. But if you fail to see how it could be a pandemic that could kill many thousands of people you are being willfully dishonest.

Are you seriously suggesting that Ebola isn't dangerous?

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>>133727198
Remember when Ebola was this horrible disease that was going to wipe out life on earth, but then it's no longer an issue and we also must import more african "refugees"?

>>133736502
We need to dig him up and kill him.

>>133727198
>Acid rain, climate change..
All b.s. to cover up the Aerosol geo engineering they have been doing since the 60s. In their little science meetings they admit doing it. But in the outside world your a fucking tin fill hat for even saying they spray, figure that one out. In conclusion anyone notice they are not doing it as much lately? The Sky is bluer and not that silver shit color that it has been for the past 10 years?

>>133736739
Ummm....nevermind...

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This digusting lake has been ruined by gross, slimy organic life due to a severe lack of acid rain

>>133737459
It is, but not as bad as they were advertising, otherwise people today wouldn't be importing aficans to europe like there is no tomorrow

Either that or they just want a pandemic to happen

>>133737270
Those times of crazy expensive oil were due to China building their cities. A lot of the materials they were buying were petrol products, so of course when such a large country starts building at that pace, the international market will take notice and adjust.

The fear mongering was just a way to distract from the deals with China, as well as keep the "threat" of China alive in people's minds.
Their massive rate of building isn't that scary when the people learn it is off of the back of international commerce, as well as being unsustainable. Easier to make good profits selling oil products to China, and then turning around to convince your people the oil is running out.

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>>133736873
>holes in the ozone appear naturally and it was nothing

What the shit are you even trying to say. The halogen-mediated catalytic depletion of ozone is one of the best-described chemical processes out there. A natural polar ozone hole has never been described and would only be possible with extremely high perturbations in atmospheric halogen content from a large asteroid (>150 m) impacting the ocean or an unusually halogen-enriched volcanic explosion.

The fact is, every year since 1983, there has been a seasonal Antarctic ozone hole - and there will be until at least 2070, because humans released gigatons of chlorofluorocarbons, halons, and other halocarbon substances into the atmosphere. These chemicals aren't destroyed in the troposphere, so they tend to mix into the stratosphere, above the ozone layer where harsh UV radiation breaks the apart. At this point their halogens are liberated and are able to engage in the catalytic conversion of 2 ozone molecules into three oxygen molecules every cycle. The average number of cycles a single chlorine atom goes through is 100,000 before it is removed from the stratosphere.

It's well known, there's a clear chemical cause, and it's still happening. Because of the Montreal Protocol, it is no longer growing. Where the fuck did you read some bullshit about it being natural?

>>133729824
This

>>133737228
Of course one international agreement does not justify another; that would be a stupid argument. They would have to be evaluated based on the case. In the case of Kyoto and Paris it's about carbon dioxide emissions not sulfur dioxide. Whether those agreements are/were effective is another discussion.

I don't think we disagree. But very often the environmental consequences are something that are externalized to other jurisdictions.

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The green energy meme really fucked Belgians over.
>Belgian government promotes solar panels
>get benefits if you buy and install solar panels
>some companies figure out solar panels+benefits >>>> cost
>they install solar panels on every square cm of their property
>gigantic unexpected cost for the government
oopsie
>new tax introduced
>every household has to pay 190 euro per year extra
>working class families have to pay back the solar panels of some companies that are keeping the profit of those panels
>today solar panels got cheaper and no government benefits are even needed to install them for profit

a-at least we have green energy now, right? :)

>>133736873
CFC's Chlorofluorocarbons, the made up styrofoam containers, the propellants in aerosol cans, the sandwich clamshells quarter pounders and big macs came in...

>>133737752
>the Australian ozone hole is entirely man-made
Not really, it was only seem to be increasing because of the aerosols. Australia has always been an area with high UV pollution, which can be seen by the color of the continent itself.

Ever wonder why mars and Australia are the same shade of red? It takes a lot longer than ~30 years to cause such a change.

>>133730885
They admitted to it you moron. There are a fuck ton of YouTube videos of them admitting to it during their closed door meetings. Wtf dude...fucking seriously.

>>133737692
Ebola isn't from all regions of Africa, Einstein. It's limited to a small regions. Despite the media uproar it was really only tens of thousands of people who were infected. I don't defend the muslim immigration into Europe, I am staunchly opposed to it. But you are grasping at straws here. Ebola is a serious threat and could kill lots of people if it ever reached a dense urban area.

Luckily it is only passed through direct bodily fluid contact so most educated people who understand how germs work can avoid infection. It's only totally uneducated 3rd world people who don't even grasp or believe in microorganisms that really suffer.

But if it were to evolve to be airborne or more easily transmitted then it could be a horrible pandemic. Ebola is one of the most deadly diseases known once you are infected. Luckily it is not transmitted very easily, for now.

>>133737801
>carbon dioxide vs sulfur dioxide
Funny you mention that, as I think this not-so-small difference is a very important fact that people are missing.
Sulfur is quite the corrosive chemical. Carbon, not so much.

>>133737685
Run off of fertilize from peoples lawns into ponds and rivers m8 it's a thing.

>>133731942
Look at me I look at random correlations then infer a politically pleasing causal relationship.

>>133737717
the reason why you are only allowed 1 small carryon and charged up the ass for checkin baggage is because of the peak oil scam

also the food shortage scam that hyperinflated food prices was all part of peak oil scam of Rockefeller & Assoc

the food shortage scam led to the arab spring.

they had to temporarily reverse their peak oil scam in order to destroy russia

>>133727198
>told
Kek

But yes, all kids believe their teachers etc...

But if you still believe them once you get to about 14 years old, you're a retard and you will become a liberal.

In the 70s we were told we were headed for an ice age. Then in the 80s, we were told we created holes in the ozone layer (which were already there), it's one thing after another, and they're all lies. And teachers are actually extremely dumb people on average, so they also believe the lies they are teaching their students.

>>133737010
I thought green was good...I remeber a penn and teller bullshit! episode where they asked people about dihydrogen monoxide-water.

>>133737685
Acid rain isn't what prevents that. Controlling nitrate runoff is what prevents that. A combination of fertilizer and pesticide runoff is what causes the algae blooms. Algae is a plant, it loves fertilizer. Combine that with pesticide runoff that kills all the insects and microscopic water life that keeps algae in check and you have a runaway situation.

>>133738194
>Carbon dioxide is not corrosive, therefore can have no effect.
Interesting logic burgerbro

>>133738064
>This is what happens when you think YouTube videos are real

There are plans for the first field mission in 2019. No one has done shit yet - NSF didn't even want to consider funding it until 2015.

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>>133738258
And more acid can solve that problem! We can do this!

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>>133727198
>>133729150
>>133729326
>>133733719
>>133734467
>you guys are retarded because we said something would end the world and it did not happen, RETARDED CLETUS BAKA xDDD

>>133738062
Wat

>>133738594
You have no idea WTF you are talking about.

>>133738626
People said junk food made me fat. I stopped eating junk food and now I'm not fat. What a fucking scam. Where is the evidence that junk food was making me fat?

That's the type of logic people use in this thread.

>>133738538
The proposed effect is quite silly once you realize that what they accuse CO2 of doing, water does more than 10 times better.
But the point of my post was pointing out that the pollutant attributes of sulfur aren't shared by carbon. Sulfur pollution caused very noticeable effects. Not so much with the "carbon pollution".

>>133737270
>purchase of gas-guzzling SUVs that get 10 miles per gallon
I bought Subaru Forester in March, it is a zero emissions vehicle. I grow enough plants to offset the carbon footprint of me my finacee and our cat and dog. I recycle. It's so easy to do.

>>133733053
Philosophers?

>>133729071
Don't worry, I'm already fat and alcoholic.

There's not a lot keeping the will to live for me.

>>133738643
The ozone hole has been there for a very long time. The aerosols didn't create the hole, but they were affecting it in some ways.
The red soil is a result from millennia of UV bombardment, and the same phenomena can be observed on our res planetary neighbor, who also has very weak ozone.

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>>133737305

>>133739046
>red planetary neighbor*

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>>133738690
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/08/000814021041.htm
"Wisconsin Lake Study Shows Persistence Of Acid Rain Effects

"The acidified lake became almost crystal clear in the process, and ultraviolet light penetration increased, he says."

crytal clear!

CRYSTAL CLEAR!!!

>>133738626

Ah, you are a mouth-breathing idiot that doesn't understand when preventative action prevents something then environmental regulation was successful, not unnecessary.

You can just tell the rest of the thread up-front that you are a moron that should be avoided. Saves us all time.

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>>133738822
>>133739342

>it did not happen because of some measures that contained it a little
>it doesn't matter there are more industrialization in the world then at the time making those measures meaningless
>it doesn't matter it still exist but it is actually a non-issue that we had to scrap

Eat shit, oh wait you already consume this con art.

>>133738163
Zaire, lol.

Every ten years or so the the left comes up with a new crisis that absolutely requires the diminution of individual rights and and/or the stifling of free enterprise and nationalism.

Overpopulation - promoted by a gentleman named Paul Rosenberg-Ehrlich. He might have been a little off because now we must import migrants due to the underpopulation crisis.
Pollution - Industry will destroy the planet!
Nuclear weapons - No Nukes! Disarm now!
Nuclear power - these power plants will burn a hole through the earth to China! (the China Syndrome)
Global warming - CO2 will fry the planet. In 1900 during a heat wave we said "Fuck it's hot". In 2000 we said "Ya see!? Man-made global warming!"
Climate change - scratch that; CO2 will cause the weather to change.

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>>133738594
Look at what it's doing to the trees...

>>133739300
>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/08/000814021041.htm

Did you even read the fucking article? Just because the water cleared up doesn't mean the lake is healthy. Mercury levels in fish rose and many species were killed by the acid.

Using your logic a car is in mechanical good shape if you give it a good wash on the outside. As long as it looks good on the most superficial level then everything is OK...

>>133738968
Well cut the shit...the self destructive tendencies is causing the mortality rate to offset medical advances, at least in white people.

>>133739516
>>it did not happen because of some measures that contained it a little


You disingenuous sod, it did not contain it "a little", it made the issue so marginal that you have idiots such as yourself saying it wasn't that big of a deal

>>it doesn't matter there are more industrialization in the world then at the time


Literally L I T E R A L L Y no-one you are responding to is saying that, in the least. We are saying that not only were the regulations effective they should be the status quo. Only the OP and the morons in this thread that think like him are saying otherwise

>>it doesn't matter it still exist but it is actually a non-issue that we had to scrap
>That we had to scrap

How is this a "non-issue? The environmental regulations that protect the populous from the major effects of acid rain are still in effect and protecting Americans as we speak. The OP is against said regulations.

If anything: You should be pushing for other new industrial powers like China and India to take up the same regulations to protect their people as well.

>>133739300
That's because everything is dead, lol.

>>133731942
>>133735575
Yep I believe it was exactly that book I read that from.

Only way to be sure causation =/= correlation is through a series of unethical medical studies,

As always, I'm a firm supporter of abortions. Unwanted kids that the parents resent will never grow up to be people we want to have alive anyways.

>>133739664
the left is actually a tool of Rockefeller

>>133736502

>>133739664
>Overpopulation
The flaw is people in the west having fewer children doesn't effect the explosion in China and India.

>>133727198
People used to not believe the government. Not trusting the government made people happy and kept the government in check. Now the kids can't suck the government's dick hard enough, and they are going to suffer big time for it.

>>133739046
Oh, I thought the red soil was due to the absorbance spectrum of Iron (III) due to D-band splitting. You know.. the basis for crystal field theory and everything.

I guess it's just from no-mechanism-described UV radiation bombardment. My bad.

>>133739968
Why, I'm not gonna be able to reproduce anyways. I'm sure the people who want to fight can do much better than me.

>>133740227
We are all going to suffer...the pathetic thing is they are unaware their perceptions have been managed to the point of eternal predictability. Using psychiatry and bullshit.

>>133738827
You're right. The effects of the two compounds are different, as is the visibility of these effects.
>water does more than 10 times better, therefore CO2 does nothing
interesting logic again.

>>133740420
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES

All addicts have them. The difference between successes and failures is how much energy one is willing to expend to achieve their goals.

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>>133740014
>Literally L I T E R A L L Y no-one you are responding to is saying that, in the least.
That is the very key point of what I said, moron. You faggots dismiss this fact.

>new technologies that help older ones be cleaner
>same thing as government regulations
>meanwhile proposes like Trump's to make clean coal facilities/technology are dumb and impossible

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>>133727198
I was told this as a child but I don't remember the issue ever being brought up after the 90's. I haven't thought about it in years,.... really makes your noggin nig.

>>133740604
>therefore CO2 does nothing
400 ppm of naturally occurring co2 is not catastrophic, not even close.

>>133739101
Danke

>>133740844
Cool story bro. Send me your research paper when you publish it.

>>133735733
Oh shit, I'm from Saratoga (county). Toga is a gem of a city, shame people commercialized it, now it's all condos.

>>133741037
I don't keep notes, my ideas are trade secrets to me, like the recipe for KFC or Coke.

>>133740821
>>same thing as government regulations

The technology was developed and the government mandated its usage. Do you honestly think the industry just bought the scrubbers out of the kindness of their hearts?

>>meanwhile proposes like Trump's to make clean coal facilities/technology are dumb and impossible

Coal is dying and is being outpaced due to technological and supply advanced in other energy industries :- Coal Industry CEOs.

>>133741090
Yeah, they are turning it into mini NYC. It's ugly as shit downtown (off broadway).

>>133738827
>What is biogeochemical cycling
The average lifetime of a water molecule in the atmosphere is about 9 days. Each molecule of water you add to the atmosphere can contribute to warming for 9 days before it enters another reservoir.

The average lifetime of a single molecule of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 250 years. Each molecule of carbon dioxide you add to the atmosphere will contribute to warming for 250 years before it enters another reservoir.

So: 1 molecule H20 * (9 days / 91250 days) *(10 molecules CO2 / 1 molecule water) = 0.00098 molecules CO2.

Each molecule of water you add to the atmosphere has the same heating effect as one one-thousandth a carbon dioxide molecule. In other words, it takes 1000 water molecules to warm as much as a single carbon dioxide molecule.

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What is the best faction and why is it the Romulan Star Empire?

>>133741374
>Each molecule of carbon dioxide you add to the atmosphere will contribute to warming for 250 years before it enters another reservoir.
If you ignore the effect of plants converting it back into oxygen.

>>133741374
That logic doesn't make sense. Just because the water cycle moves faster doesn't mean the warming from water is less. What matters is the net amount of water in the atmosphere at any given moment. If it is being replenished as fast as it is being removed then the time it spent in the atmosphere is irrelevant.

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did anyone else take the "don't marry young" meme pill in the early 2000s? basically everyone that I went to school with that married their HS sweetheart a majority are still together.

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>>133741143
Our loss I'm sure.

>>133733053
This

>>133741641
Uh no. 250 years is the average lifetime of a CO2 molecule in the atmosphere. This includes timescales of plant respiration as well as Carbonate-Silicate weathering.

>>133741144
Do you think any scientific advance but military is done with government gobbling up money. They want to gobble up money till a private scientist come up with a solution and they have to find another scare monger tactic to grub money.

>muh coal industry CEOs are behind this
>because there totally isn't inefficient alternative industry CEOs wanting to take over

>>133741823
I know tons of people who got married young and divorced. Like 20 couples just from my personal acquaintances.

>>133741942
*alternative energy industry

>>133741942
Federal grant funded science provides a mountain of scientific knowledge ever year. I'm willing to bet you have never read a single scientific journal in your life.

>>133741943
Weird It's the exact opposite from my school. Only a few of all the ones I know broke up

>>133741703
We are talking about changes in total number of molecules in the atmosphere. Ignoring the fact that water vapor tends to be constant over short time periods:
A one-time change in atmospheric water (impulse) has little effect on the radiative forcing budget because recovery is so quick. An impulse of CO2 has a much greater effect because it takes so long to recover.

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>>133741910
>>133742083
mfw someone on pol knows what they're talking about.

Acid rain / global warming might be flukes but we will eventually have to come face to face with the consequences of basing our entire religion and society (materialism cloaked in science) on the idea of infinite growth in a finite plane.

When that happens, the powers that will be will either kill off all the excess human resources or keep clunking head-on into mass die-offs, ocean acidification, air that makes Beijing rush-hour look like a picnic, shortages of vital resources and subsequent mass famine/disease/plague and war.

Forget maintaining the materialist living standard, that will have been stripped away long ago, as we're seeing now by importing immigrants en made to keep competition, prices and consumption artificially high, while keeping wages and negotiating power artificially low.

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>>133729326
Thank you. I used to come to /pol bc I thought of it as the land of non retarded conservatives. The last few months have just been conspiracy theories and cuck threads it's awful

>>133741910
>250 years is the average lifetime of a CO2 molecule in the atmosphere
The UC Davis researchers found that the chemical bonds did indeed break in other ways, and were able to turn carbon dioxide back into oxygen and a single carbon atom (they also describe the discovery in Science).

Suits and Parker explain it in their analysis like this:

These CO2 results may be an example of roaming, a particularly striking class of reactions that has emerged in recent years, in which an excited molecule begins to dissociate by simple bond fission, but instead, an intramolecular reaction takes place that leads to unexpected products.


https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wnjpew/scientists-turned-carbon-dioxide-into-oxygen-by-zapping-it-with-a-laser

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>>133737752
Okay, so why do the ozone "holes" appear far away from the civilizations that caused them? And why is it mostly the southern hemisphere affected, and not the northern hemisphere where the vast majority of CFCs and other offending particulates originated?

I'm honestly curious. The chemical equator means that CFCs should be concentrated in the northern hemisphere just like CO2. Even if CFCs disproportionately act on the southern hemisphere due to the cooler natural temperatures, the concentration of CFCs should (based on the purported cause of the concentration, i.e., aerosols, AC units) be much much higher in the northern hemisphere for obvious reasons, but we don't see this whatsoever.

>>133742083
Not from the US and I doubt most of the money taxed in fact go to research.

>>133742549
It's r d and the general normalization of pol's shock politics that used to keep people holding to common misconceptions out.

Now you get a lot more of the FOX and CNN crowd, like you get a lot more dads in YouTube comments and Facebook unironically using the term "mgtow".

>>133742820

Just stop, really. You have made it clear you have no clue of which you speak and should just walk away from the keyboard.

>>133735272
>when you vote for a president who increases EPA's funding but they then proceed to spill millions of gallons of mining tailings into the Colorado river, the media then only mentions it briefly only for it to be lost to the history books

>>133727198
Because it was fucking problem that was identified and fixed. Just like the ozone layer and KFK gasses.

>>133742976
Why don't you answer my other post if I don't know what I am talking about.

>>133742730
The ozone hole is formed due to what are called heterogeneous reactions. That is gas molecules interacting catalytically on surfaces. These surfaces in the stratosphere are polar stratospheric clouds, which only form at temperatures below 190 K.

Halogen atoms from CFCs species aren't actually kept in a reactive form. Instead, they're bound in what we call chemical reservoirs - HCl and ClONO2. These reservoirs are broken apart on aerosol surfaces to form Cl2, which then photolyzes to form Cl radical.

Cl + O3 -> ClO + O2
2 ClO <-> ClOOCl
ClOOCl + hv -> 2 Cl + O2

The cycle repeats.

You also need to have what we call dentirification. Aerosols tend to do this in a process called reactive uptake:

ClO + NO2 + M -> ClONO2
ClONO2+ HCl aerosol -> HNO3 + Cl2

So once NO2 is gone, there is no longer a reservoir and all halogens are in their active ozone-depleting form.

It's really the aerosol that causes this problem and the aerosol forms (and denitrifies) only in the winter polar vortex, which serves to isolate the chemical mixture from the surrounding air masses.

>>133743313

You were already answered by another poster

>I doubt most of the money taxed in fact go to research.


Yes, limited tax money goes into scientific research. It is almost as though some faction in the government wants to dismantle organizations like the EPA and acts like the CAA and has been screwing over their funding year after year.

Also: regulation =/= taxation in all cases.

You are skirting the primary issue, that corporations were causing acid rain and government regulation mandated they curtail their pollution. You are doing it by attacking government on a fundamental level by trying to force taxation into the issue disingenuously because you have no counter to the fact that government regulation is what prevented an acid rain epidemic.

>>133742730
You're absolutely correct about source regions. But the lifetimes of various CFCs are about a century, allowing for homogeneous mixing. Additionally, gas phase only ozone-depleting reactions are slow and do not result in ozone holes. It's really just an unfortunate mix of heterogeneous chemistry (polar stratospheric clouds), unique meteorology (polar vortex), and chlorine availability (CFCs) that allow for it to happen.

>>133741853
Not really it comes out in my work which I sell.

>>133736502
>Ontario

I hate how all this SJW nonsense has festered in Canadian Universities and everyone blames americans for it. Fucking canada

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>>133742706
I'll shut up after this. The image here shows the total available halogen loading of the stratosphere for (left) air in the midlatitudes and (right) older air in the poles. Brewer-Dobson circulation results in air rising near the equator and subsiding at the poles. Because CFCs need to be activated, that means halogens in stratospheric parcels over places like the USA aren't fully activated to begin with.
You can also see that we aren't expected to recover to pre-ozone hole levels until about 2070 (though other factors may exacerbate/limit ozone hole formation as circulation patterns change)

Newman et al., 2007, Atmos. Chem. Phys.

>>133744053
You pretend regulations means the same as new technology being discovered. The money don't go to what they meant to because that is what they do, governments are corrupt and inefficient and just search for problems to scare mongand stick their hook noses till someone finds a solution to it (ie new technology).

>>133735985
GHWB NWO

>>133745538
GHWB is a Rockefeller Associates

President Richard Nixon appointed Bush as Ambassador to the United Nations,

Bush was leader of Intelligence

The Eugenics movement was big in the US between the World Wars. American backers, Rockefellers, Carnegies, Bushes inspired the movement abroad. Including funding to build a central research facility, the Wilhiem institute in Germany, with the assistance of Adolf and American money.
The Bush family, as you said tried to install a regime inspired by Hitler's 3rd Reich before WWII but got BTFO as you said. But during the war the Senator Prescott Bush was involved in military intelligence. And after the war was responsible for setting up the CIA and helping get his close friend and buisness partner Allen Dulles, named as Chief.
The same people are involved with each other before, during and after the war.
Bushes and other Americans helped formulate the Nazi policy and plans for a master race.
Then after the war gave them safety.

>>133737872
We had a similiar developement in germany.
In essence, the return of investment on solar panels, was higher than the interest rates of the banks - so any companies that had some money lying around, built some solar panels on their roofs. Plenty enough private persons did so, too.

Well, just like in belgium, the government suddenly wasn't able - or willing - to pay the increasing cost of the green energy. So they cut the benefit.

>>133744892
The point is...recent research shows...Consider the proposal as a chemical reaction: CO2 plus energy yields carbon and oxygen. This formula essentially reverses coal combustion (carbon plus oxygen yields CO2 and energy). If energy from coal were applied to drive the decomposition reaction, more CO2 would be released than consumed, because no process is perfectly efficient.

Another option would be to harness a carbon-free energy source to drive a reaction that does not merely undo the combustion process but instead uses carbon dioxide as an input to generate useful, energy-rich products.

old faggot here,

acid rain was fucking real as fuck and it went away after we made drastic cuts to emissions

I used to make money asa teenager buffing cars to get rid if the spots

>>133744983
>You pretend regulations means the same as new technology being discovered

I did not at any point do so, you blatant liar. I said the technology was developed and the government mandated its usage.

Again, for the second time: Do you think the corporations bought the relevant scrubbers out of the kindness of their heart?

Stop trying to pivot this to taxation, literally no one is making that an issue except you. This is about regulations now in effect protecting the American public that China and India should adopt. The OP and his ilk are pushing that said regulations should not exist because the issue is apparently a conspiracy according to them.

>>133732268
> Manufacturing plants were required to put anti-pollution devices on the exhausts of their businesses to convert the nitrogen (which was altering the Ph of the soil, due to it's acidity.) into sulphur

Transmute elementary nitrogen into elementary sulfur? Now that's a trick I'd like to see :-)

The problematic byproduct is nitrous oxide and the anti-pollution devices break that up into elementary nitrogen and water.

>>133747347
We're talking about ozone...

And I don't know where you're trying to go with this, but the economic and efficient reduction of CO2 to form alcohols and esters is an active area of research. It's typically done on solid surfaces, and sometimes in a photocatalytic context. Promising avenues include nanoporous coinage metal catalysts

>>133745934
the secret history of america...

>>133748624
>We're talking about ozone...
No actually we were talking about breaking co2 down into oxygen before you and that dude started going off about ozone holes which are caused by cfc's breaking down and recombining chemically with ozone, which then converts it to something that no longer protects the earth's surface from dangerous UV light. I forget the exact science because the scientific knowledge I have been using isn't atmospheric it's biological. The make up and concentrations of certain greenhouse gases are necessary though...like co2.

acid rain was fucking real and caused mostly by manufacturing in the Midwest and coal bring powerplants in Appalachia.

It's not an issue anymore becuase of regulations enforcing nitrogen and sulfur dioxide emissions and the mandatory scrubbing and catalytic converters on cars and factories/plants.

Sadly we may have an issue with it again if trump is really adamant about bringing back a dying coal industry that should be left to die a peaceful death only to apease backwards uneducated people in Appalachia.
Which is bullshit too becuase most of the coal is mined out west anyway.

>>133748258
>>Transmute elementary nitrogen into elementary sulfur? Now that's a trick I'd like to see
I have an anecdote if you will humor me...there is a paper mill on the edge of a town I used to live in, Finch Pruyn, and it fucking stunk up the entire end of town. When the regulations about pollution particulates and the anti-pollution whatever they are were put on the exhausts of the buildings, it went from smelling like industrial waste and a brackish dark grey color to a rotten egg smell and exhaust that is mostly (90%) water vapor. It stinks, but the particulates in the air have been reduced drastically. Purely anecdotal but I experienced it.

>>133749743
I don't think the plan is to burn it, I think the plan is to export it for profit.

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>>133749337
>We aren't talking about ozone

Then why did you respond to the thread in which we are discussing ozone.

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>>133750739
I didn't I replied to the thread I was talking about co2 in, you're babbling about ozone which has nothing to do with acid rain if you want to nitpick. I just chose to respond to a different, newer post. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you with the assumption you could carry on two simultaneous but different subjects.

>>133747622
>>133747622
The you know what OP and us are talking about? Scare mongering campaigns. The purpose of this? Taxation.

And we are talking about the truth behind these campaigns, and the truth is that decades later that shit was a bluff when there is still pollution and even more factories than before.

While the nowadays apocalyptic claims says similar things and dismiss new technology to make older ones cleaner as something impossible, while you use this argument to defend your old idiotic claims, as I said before.

fyi scaremongering does have its purposes in moderation
Pestering industry to utilize or develop tech to control NOx/SOx has been a net gain.

>>133729326
Actually the hole is still there, seems to be a naturally occurring cycle and the original hypothesis about CFC mediated ozone depletion in the troposphere doesn't actually hold up. CFC levels are down, absolutely, but when they finally floated high altitude weather balloons over the Antarctic to directly measure the ozone depletion reaction they found that the reaction rates were much lower than predicted in the lab. The entire CFC hypothesis was predicated on fairly good science centered around lab recreations of upper altitude conditions - it's just that they decided this was a big problem and they acted before they found out the lab conditions were not in line with the actual upper atmosphere.

The worst part about the whole CFC episode was that it provided a false blueprint for the current climate change hustle.

>>133727198
There's lots of acid rain in places still.

But its the same story as the Ozone hole, when we actually admit it's a problem we can fix it.

The ozone hole is on its recovery and the west has gained control of the acid rain problem for the most part.

CO2 climate effects are still happening because we haven't done shit about it

>>133727198
>So what ever happened to the acid rain story?

We fixed it by environmental intervention. We also fixed the ozone hole problem (sort of, it exists, but over Antarctica, at least it didn't get bigger).

These are positive changes. Environmentalism is conserving the environment. Conservatives used to be all for this, and there's even a biblical precedent set in being "stewards" of the world you've been given.

I'll never understand how the right fumbled the ball so completely they let retard greens and lefties own the topic of environmentalism.

> blue pill

Conserving the environment is hard and requires hard choices. There's nothing bluepilled in this topic. Greedy cunts and retard lefties are everywhere trying to fuck it up. The right wing tries to deny science. The left tries to act like we can just give up on progress to save the world.

There's precious few rational voices on environmentalism. We need energy and drastic changes in population to cope with the future. Globalism is poison. Carbon credits is a scam.

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>>133742288
Now if only you knew what you were talking about that would be another step forward.

>>133727198
You obviously haven't seen any church or old town hall in the 1980s with sandstone ornaments and statues. If you did, you'd have witnessed the effect of acid rain first hand. And you've obviously don't seen a dead forest at that time. Again: Witness the effect first hand.

I have and I did. Acid rain was real.

>>133751438
Oh you're the one who is confused by that article on dissociative electronic states and selection of a higher energy pathway. That has nothing to do with atmospheric carbon dioxide.

Normally when you pump CO2 into an excited electronic state, the following happens:

CO2 +hv -> CO + O

Now this O atom will react with anything it finds for example:

O + O2 -> O3

(If this happened in the atmosphere this is the most likely reaction since O2 is most prevalent reactive reaction partner in atmosphere)

What they did in that paper you linked an article about was this:

CO2 + hv -> O2 + C

Now where is that C going to go?

How about C + O2 -> CO2

And that's what you linked to me.

What's actually interesting are reactions like:
CO2 + reactants -> CH3OH, HCOOCH3, etc.

This is an actual way to draw down CO2, but it's energetically expensive and without free power, will generate more carbon than it converts.

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>>133753584
>>133727198
>>>133729326
>Actually the hole is still there, seems to be a naturally occurring cycle and the original hypothesis about CFC mediated ozone depletion in the troposphere doesn't actually hold up.

The ozone layer is in the stratosphere. That said, halogen-mediated ozone depletion in the troposphere does exist, for example look into "bromine explosion", which is an autocatalytic enhancement in reactive BrO and is entirely natural.

This isn't stratospheric ozone depletion.

>CFC levels are down, absolutely, but when they finally floated high altitude weather balloons over the Antarctic to directly measure the ozone depletion reaction they found that the reaction rates were much lower than predicted in the lab.

The ER-2 was flown, not a weather balloon, and the chemical cause of polar ozone was determined. This was the so-called smoking gun as published by Jim Anderson in the late 80s (pic related).

CFC levels are declining; however they won't be down to preindustrial levels until the end of the century.

>The entire CFC hypothesis was predicated on fairly good science centered around lab recreations of upper altitude conditions - it's just that they decided this was a big problem and they acted before they found out the lab conditions were not in line with the actual upper atmosphere.

They found that gas phase reactions were too slow to account for the ozone hole. Heterogeneous reactions occurring on polar stratospheric clouds accelerated loss by enhancing reactive chlorine while sinking reservoir formation rates.

>The worst part about the whole CFC episode was that it provided a false blueprint for the current climate change hustle.

The worst part is the fact that skin cancer rates have increased by 50% since the 1980s and a lot of that is due to enhanced surface UV-B flux.

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>>133755582
>The worst part is the fact that skin cancer rates have increased by 50% since the 1980s

Cancer now more common than getting married or having a first baby or the flu
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/07/09/cancer-now-common-getting-married-having-first-baby/

>>133755937
Yeah. Skin cancer is mostly preventable. It's a fucking travesty that melanomas are still so prevalent.

>>133743066
>when you vote for a government that increases the police department's funding but then crime happens anyway

anything that isn't 100% successful is just a scam to steal my tax dollars

Hey science anon, you know stuff about stuff, here's a question for you:

Using calcium carbonate to sequester ocean-bound carbon, are there any knock-on effects? Same for iron fertilization, I suppose.

>>133756701
I don't know much about the oceans - my PhD was in stratospheric processes.

I can tell you that ocean iron geoengineering will result in the massive production of what are called very short-lived halocarbons by marine plankton. These substances will eventually make it to the lower stratosphere and enhance ozone destruction rates. If the sea surface gets warmer, we could end up with a much thinner ozone layer than we thought, even after CFCs have decayed.

Adding calcium carbonate to the ocean sounds like a buffering process. The problem is that the ocean isn't anywhere near carbonate capacity, so you're not gonna force the equilibrium substantially, and there's a much slower process of benthic mixing. There's a lot of room for carbon dioxide in the deep ocean - it hasn't gotten there yet. That said, I don't know much about this so take what I said with a grain of salt.

>>133757203

I have zero formal training in this, so even your adjacent knowledge trumps mine. That said, insofar as I understand it, the upper layers being saturated with carbon creates an issue with the ocean being a reliable carbon sink for the atmosphere, because water pressure means that rather than mixing, the carbon-rich water just kinda hangs out on in one discrete layer.

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>>133757898
That sounds reasonable. You'd probably have to add gigatons of CaCO3 to the ocean though.