Where did God come from?

>>133685345
I wonder what he was doing before creating the universe

>>133685345
Our imagination

>>133685345
The big bang

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I like to think God is a Boltzmann Brain that came into existence "before" time. Time did not exist so starting up "before" time means you technically always existed. It's hard to wrap your head around but you can begin and simultaeously always have existed in certain time scenarios. Say time was cyclical for instance. If you are in cyclical time you were there before at every point and you'll be there after at every point, it's cyclical. If you were going to go somewhere you'd never have entered that place to begin with.

>>133685345
He has always existed. He did not "come from" anything because the very concept of coming into being can't exist without God. He exists outside of limitations like "where" and "when" and simply exists in all places and times simultaneously.

>>133686048
not even memeing that really made me think

>>133685682
He existed for and rested for one day before creation of the universe. Day of rest is secretly the first day of the week.

Going made from eternal loneliess and the curse of self-awareness. It's a good thing the infinite amount of time be spent like that barely started when he created everything.

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>>133685345
Anime

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>>133685345

>>133685345
Everything that exists has an essence. However something does not need to exist to have an essence. Thus in concept all things have always had an essence but did not exist.
Now therefore what is the one thing that must have existed prior to the universe. The concept of existence itself. The universe could not come into existence if existence itself did not already exist. Thus the concept or essence of existence must be the first thing to exist. Therefore "God" is the essence of existence itself and is present in all things for it is he/it which gives everything its existence.

>>133686048
Could God be the result of retrocausality? God was born after he already existed? We know this shit is possible, we've literally done it in labs. Fucking with photons microseconds after we've already measured our fuck up.

Can anyone answer the question while also explaining why God is uniquely able to cause itself/exist before existence, but precludes the ability of anything else to do the same thing? Without the second part, there's no reason to favor the idea that God created Himself over particles creating themselves to cause the Big Bang, or any other theory of existence that requires something to spontaneously exist.

>>133685345
God created himself

>>133688529
>here's no reason to favor the idea that God created Himself over particles creating themselves to cause the Big Bang
>he thinks God follows physics

>>133685345
a chicken

>>133685345

MUH DICK

>>133685345
An eternal being, beyond our understanding. Something that has power over different dimensions since it was able to create the universe and the realm that demons/ayylmaos come from

>>133688920
ayylmaos aren't real

>>133688657
I don't think you know what physics is.
Anything and everything follows physics. If God appears to break the rules it means one of two things, either he isn't and we're to stupid too realize it or he can make whole new sets of rules on the fly. Same reason proof of ghosts wouldn't really be supernatural, it would mean ghosts were natural all along and we just didn't realize it.

>>133685345
another dimension. it collapsed and most stuff ended up smashed into its basic parts on the trip to this world. he got tangled in a few dimensions of our reality which allowed him to side step time in advertantly. he slept frozen in time and his dream caused reality to destabilize which caused the big bang.

technically matter was already here in subatomic form thanks to the other dimension collapsing but this flash fried everything and gave it energy to form larger structures like atoms

he woke up at some time and wiggled free but i hear hes stuck in a higher level of our reality. most modern travelers who slip through to this world dont get stuck so i guess he tore up that area of 1D space that was interwoven in this dimensions space time

>>133685345
Moses had a psychotic episode, seizures ("lighting strike").

>>133685345
Everything came from the brain.

>>133686048
Shut up White People.

>>133689027
I know.

>>133685345
God has never and will never begin or cease to exist. Heaven is outside of time. We are within time and are totally unable to understand infinite timem

>>133688920
If God can conceivably be eternal, why can't something less complex, such as the universe, also be eternal?

>>133689358
I guess I kinda see what you're saying but the big bang doesnt follow physics at all

>>133685345
The God factory. Built by singing God elves

>>133685345
We created god to control ourselves

>>133689934
see
>>133688657
>>133689934

Also God wasn't made of matter then

>>133689829
>Heaven is outside of time
What does this mean?

>Implying a God that is described in the Bible for example would be limited to our dimension.
If you believe in multi-dimensionality (1D,2D,3D,4D,5D, and so on) as described in the video below for example I find it hard to believe that any God would not be able to operate interdimensionally.

>Where did God come from?
To answer your question from the approach that God must exist within the interdimentional bounds and obey the laws of all know quantum mechanics and assuming the many-worlds interpretation is correct God did not come from any single place but exist within all dimensions simultaneously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

>>133688529
He isn't, the Bible acknowledges the Gods of Egypt as beings YHWH punishes and makes them distinct from the people of Egypt. The truth is the Bible makes it clear as fuck the Egyptian gods existed. Additionally death is not Satan and death is often regarded as it's own being having it's own consciousness that eventually God will imprison. Since judaism probably emerged from zoroastronism it adds up, implying that God has a brother.

Hell if you're a redditor who regards Kek as a real being as opposed to an excuse to post doubles you can assume these beings are spontaneously manifesting even now. That's an example of something called a Boltzmann brain, something >>133686048 mentioned which is a conscioisness that just appears out of the result of random quantum fluctuations. It's something that would basically almost never generate a single atom, let alone an eternal consciousness but given long enough times scales has to happen eventually.

>>133690538
No it doesn't retard

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

>>133690067
Since heaven lasts forever (infinite) you can't apply any unit of time towards it. Time happens when things start and stop. Heaven always is. Heaven doesn't start or stop.

>>133690067
Yeah that doesn't make ant sense

>>133685345
Chistfags' ass.

>>133689934
That's actually a great example. I find it funny that religous people are offended by the big bang when the big bang shits all over all our understanding of physics more than anything else. Energy is created which is supposedly impossible, time and space are also spontaneously created.

We're clearly wrong about something somewhere, we just don't know what. Shit like that is why I would consider the existence of a God possible, even likely. We don't know anything.

I don't know. Where did ANYTHING possibly come from originally? It's a mystery that may never be solved.

>>133690805
How would anyone know this?

>>133690805
>Heaven doesn't stop
That's where you're wrong kiddo
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

But sererioisly when 1 second passes in earth 1 second passes in Heaven.

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>>133689921
The sheer fact that our material world is able to be manipulated in various ways, if it were eternal it would be unable to be changed.

>>133690918
also about the physics thing if God can do anything then why would there even be laws of physics when it would be literally anything?

>>133687517
Most concepts"essence" exist within the metaframework of the human mind which is itself more complicated than we can understand.

There is no essence without human beings and there is no intelligent life without billions of years of materials eroding and altering till certain structures last longer.

Life is self replicating to perpetuate itself longer, that's why life is still around.

Stars last a long time and can be born from nebulas of dead stars.

Substances that are better at existing continue to exist longer.

Material precedes essence.

>>133685345

A higher dimension where our concept of linear time doesn't exist.

>>133690693
>no it doesn't retard

>Jeremiah 46:25 I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods.

>Acts 14:11-12 The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius...

>Exodus 12:12 And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment...

>Exodus 23:13-33 KJV And make no mention of the name of other gods, Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

You know by now you'd think you faggots would just assume anything you quote from the Bible is contradicted somewhere else but you don't. It doesn't matter how often it happens. You unironically post Bible quotes to back ip your retarded beliefs, get ither Bible quotes quoted at you, and just fling shit at each other without a sliver of self-awareness or a single thought towards why the Bible seems to contradict so much. Other gods were ALWAYS a thing in Bible times. Just because you pulled an ISIS and started referencing those quotes instead of these after the fact doesn't change the facts.

>>133685345
K FAG GOATS
"Where did god come from"
Yall bitches should use occam's razor.
Whole E Fuchs(porsche master race).

Occam's razor "The hypothesis making the least amount of assumptions is the best one"
INB4
>God explains everything zo E exists!
Hypotheses(and theories) that explain away things but rely on many assumtions are useless. Something with only a few assumptions- or none at all- is best and simplest.

God is explaining away the universe by having something more powerful and more complicated than the universe.
Utter futility.

>>133691027
You can look up official doctrine of almost any Christian denomination (I didn't make this up lol.) The Creation story in revelation is an analogy in which heaven is on earth, but doesnt work when humans, who have free will, sin. The story is meant to explain why humans have free will, and how existence would be pointless if we didnt have to choose to love God. Thus, heaven and earth are different and separate realms.

>>133691753
As in he'll tear down what thise gods stand for

>atheist trying to interpret the Bible
heh

>>133691027

> But seriously when 1 second passes in earth 1 second passes in Heaven.

Nope,

> 2 Peter 3:8
> "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Time beyond our reality is not linear.

>>133692289
Then time still exists its just faster

>>133692010
You can't honestly say with any certainty which is right or wrong. If the Bible were simple we wouldn't have protestants.

>>133685345
ignorance

>>133692453
Please understand figurative language in the bible

6/10 shill

>>133685345
if something came from somewhere, then its not god, and yet you're still left with the prime mover problem

>>133691753

Other "gods" existed, not God. Only God is eternal, all other deities are demons deceiving their followers or a figment of man's imagination. God never stated that there was no other living being worshiped by mankind, God only stated that their power is nothing before Him, their false teachings lead to ruination, and they are unworthy of our worship.

>>133691753
I really really REALLY hate to ruin this thread by bringing up (((them))) but the acknowledgement of other gods, while a thing that did happen, was almost exclusively and rather ironically a jewish thing.

>>133685345
From Imaginationland

>>133692478
the Bible is simple to understand on most things and the mostly on slavation

>>133686135
If She always existed, then there's infinite time before She created anything.

>>133692655
Kinda this. I don't think there are any other gods but them being demons may be true. Like how Muhhamed and Joseph Smith said they were visted by an angel when it was probably Satan.

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

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>>133685345
In the beginning, men created God in his own image.

>>133685345
As man now is, God once was:
As God now is, man may be.


>but le magic underwear amirite guys?

>>133692453

No, friend. What it's saying is that to God, time is not linear; it doesn't follow the set pattern our perception of time does. To an omniscient God, that is, existing simultaneously in all points of time, the passage of time is inconsequential, and God's perception of time follows that.

"One day is as a thousand years, a thousand years is as one day." Time is all the same in God's sight, as an eternal being existing in all points of time, the passage of time has no effect on Him, thus, applying measurements of time to Him is redundant.

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>>133693162
other way around dude

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>>133692720
Not even surprised desu

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>>133685345
Ignorance, fear and hatred

>>133688529
Take the law of identity 'A=A' for example. It's always true no matter what.
Take another statement like 'today is Monday'. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not, it's made true/false by other things like time.
Why shouldn't existence work like that?

Since the big bang did happen we know particles/energy/spacetime don't have to exist, they aren't in the A=A always exists no matter what category, they're in the depends category.
There are various reasons why people put God in the A=A category of existence, one is if God is perfect he can't be changed, if he can't change he can't begin or end.

>>133693230
I see what you're saying but for I still believe time will exist

>>133693416
for man

>>133693291
>Foundation of world.

I didn't realise you could fuck so many things up with just three words.

>>133689921
So much this. It blows my fucking mind when people can't grasp my concept that matter has possibly always existed.

>>133685345
Where did the pear earth come from? God speaks and creates and has no creator. Christ also existed with Him from before the world. You think with your stink fingers too much

>>133691581
>tl;dr .jpg

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q1_A10.html

This is the argument that Aquinas made that made turned me off him:

"It seems that in Holy Writ a word cannot have several senses, historical or literal, allegorical, tropological or moral, and anagogical... I answer that, The author of Holy Writ is God, in whose power it is to signify His meaning, not by words only (as man also can do), but also by things themselves."

>The author of Holy Writ is God.
He just goes ahead and declares this, no argument. This being in the face of the psalms clearly listing court poets and even King David as the authors. This is not God authoring. Thomas Paine observes this, too:

"All the remaining parts of the Bible, generally known by the name of the Prophets, are the works of the Jewish poets and itinerant preachers, who mixed poetry, anecdote, and devotion together—and those works still retain the air and style of poetry, though in translation." "The imagery in those books called the Prophets appertains altogether to poetry. It is fictitious, and often extravagant, and not admissible in any other kind of writing than poetry."

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>>133685345
well when a mommy deity and a daddy deity love each other very much they ah....... well........ "talk"
>Pic related

>>133693919
>mommy deity
Get this isis shit out of here

>>133685345
Which one?

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My dad works for God and he says that in the new Mario game you can play MINECRAFT

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>>133693974
I'm sorry would you care to repeat that

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>>133694118

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As much as I'd like to be a stubborn militant I like that there are creative discussions trying to dissect the internal meanings of the Bible.

>>133693905
>It seems that in Holy Writ a word cannot have several senses.

For a good argument on the contrary, Thomas Paine discusses the word "Prophet":

"There is not, throughout the whole book called the Bible, any word that describes to us what we call a poet, nor any word that describes what we call poetry. The case is, that the word prophet, to which a later times have affixed a new idea, was the Bible word for poet, and the word 'propesying' meant the art of making poetry. It also meant the art of playing poetry to a tune upon any instrument of music."

"We read of prophesying with pipes, tabrets, and horns—of prophesying with harps, with psalteries, with cymbals, and with every other instrument of music then in fashion. Were we now to speak of prophesying with a fiddle, or with a pipe and tabor, the expression would have no meaning, or would appear ridiculous, and to some people contemptuous, because we have changed the meaning of the word.

>>133685345
>Who created the being that created the concept of creation?
What made water wet?

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>>133694345
>I like that there are creative discussions trying to dissect the internal meanings of the Bible.

That's much of the very history of Christianity. Hell, it's a human thing to do.

>>133693291
Assuming prophet means poet, it's not as much blood as you think.

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>>133685345
God is a being, energy or whatever that created time as we experience it so therfore always existed.

>>133690918
since God exists outside of time he would also experience it in a completely different way that we would.

What is a "day" to God? I asked when I was a kid and the answer got stuck with me.

"imagine a single crow sharpening his beak on a rock that is 1,000 mile high and 1,000 miles long every year. Now imagine the little bits of rock that fall off every time he does. A day to God would be the amount of time it takes for that crow to wear that rock to dust. It took God 7 of those to create what we see today, and now he's resting."

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>>133693291
Sure is!

>>133685816
Don't cut yourself on that edge

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>>133689592
Where did the brain come from?
>>133689921
Conceivably the universe could be eternal. But the evidence says it isn't, it began in a big bang 14B years ago.
>>133690174
>assuming the many-worlds interpretation is correct
It's not tho.
>>133691318
>Material precedes essence.
Does material have no essence?
>>133691768
>God is complicated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_simplicity

>>133695144
>energy
If God is energy, is there a finite source of him/her/it via Laws of thermodynamics?

>>133695144
2 Peter 3:8 8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Trump Tower

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>>133689027
Yeah we are the only life to ever have existed in all of space and time in this current cycle of this specific universe.
Because god could never have created other life.
Because god thinks you are just oh so speciam.
Because god couldn't create a universe where life could randomly generate.
Because god made us all in his image, this is why we are all exactly the same.
Because god didn't already make other "intelligent" life on this planet.
Because god didn't already make non-carbon based life that exists in the ocean around volcanic sulfur vents.
Because God just could not possibly have created infinite fluctuating "realities" with unique laws that dictate infinite concepts so absurd that even he can understand them.

>>133689526
Damn this makes no fucking sense anon

>>133685345
A god is born once a being is worshiped. As long as someone has one worshiper, they are a god.

Presumably with more worshipers comes greater power, beyond the numbers you may now command.

>>133688647
Yeah but don't we all?

>>133689526
>>133695463
Idk, I feel like I could track that pretty easily. I would imagine all of us get a turn as god at some point in whatever god perceives as time. Although I can't say it sounds like fun being a bodyless thought form. I would wonder if he is even aware of his existence, or if it is all some kind of painful inebriation. Guess I will find out when it is my turn.

>>133685345
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNGHidnZZCw

How creepy is it that we can comprehend what is 'behind the veil so to speak? whatever it actually is, god or ayy lmao's or something else entirely. some force caused this expansive universe with all its complexities to exist. the fact that we can even be cognizant of such an awesome mystery gives me goose bumps.

>>133695259
Hey now. The big bang says all matter and energy was condensed into a single point before expanding and creating time. It doesn't say that the universe isn't eterna.

How could you even measure time(a subjective force) with just a single point anyways. There is nothing to relative to compare it to. It could have been condensed for a long "time", a short "time." It could even have been a non fixed point moving about before expanding. There would be no way of knowing, even if you were looking at it.

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>>133693401
>Take the law of identity 'A=A' for example. It's always true no matter what.

>>133685345
God was raped

>>133685345
read the book of enoch

>>133696294
Why does it have to have been caused though? Just the concept of infinity would mean that all things are correct.

>>133696476
If you believe in infinity than you mist believe that god was raped and has raped infinite times, as well as he has never raped or been raped.

>>133692947
>She
That's the equivalent of calling a bolt female. Creative force is positive, hence male.

>>133696434
If time was created in the expansion how could it be eternal?
>doesn't say that the universe isn't eterna
Doesn't prove it isn't but strongly suggests it, and there's nothing that suggests it is eternal.
>>133696460
When isn't it true?

>>133693919
Best post
Thoth has confirmed

>>133685345
A stork dropped him down the chimney

>>133696634
It doesn't necessarily but even something such as the concept of infinity and the cosmos being part of something eternal still speaks to some wonderful mystery. There is so much I'd love to know

>>133697215
Because "time" is relative to movement.
Movement is relative to two or more points.
You need at least two moving points to measure time.
If you have only one point, any amout of time could pass, or not pass, and it would be immeasurable either way.
So that single point could have existed for any amount of what we perceive as time. This would make 1 second amd 1000 millennia the same thing.

>>133696984
Do you really think go would have need for gender? Or that god couldn't exist as both? Or neither? Or in some state where gender is simply inapplicable?

Does sand have a gender?

>>133698308
So the compressed point at the origin of the universe could have been there for 0 time or 1 second or 1000 millennia or eternally before it banged and we wouldn't know the difference?

But if it's like that why would it suddenly bang after not banging for a literal eternity?

>>133696764
you must have a lesser number than infinity in that argument and being raped precludes not being raped dumbass.

>>133691768
>"The hypothesis making the least amount of assumptions is the best one"

It TENDS to be the best one. Remember how people thought the Earth was flat because there was a horizon?

>>133699040
You obviously don't understand the concept of infinity. If you exist infinitely, than you are raped and not raped a number of times equal to infinity.

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>>133698635
>muh biological question
The example I gave was an inanimate object.
A creative force is male. That doesn't mean said force has to have a penis, it just means that it's existentially positive as opposed to negative, binary, etc...

Sand is rightfully female (Latin)

>>133699605
no you don't get it
if something exists it already happened in infinity once and there's no way the alternate can be true even in infinite time

>>133699033
Well we don't know how long it sat there. Could have been infinity, could have been less than a nanosecond.
We also can not assume that it had not been uncondensed from its single point befor collapsing in on its self only to expand again.

It is also interesting to take blackholes into acount, as the share some of the very same seemingly unanswerable qualities as the "beginning" of the universe.

>>133699810
But females create babies. Are they male now?

>>133699829
Ok. Fair enough.

Then the answer must be that all things that can be raped have been raped infinitely.
I suppose one of your requirements for your idea of god is that he can not unexist, so I will not bother arguing that he would exist infinitely being not raped separately for his infinite existences of being raped.

>>133700182
Eggs are binary, think menstruation
Seed is what fertilizes and thus creates

>>133685345

Ask yourself, "Why do electrons stop existing in one electron shell and start existing in another shell when they change energy states?" You'll get the same answer, namely, "Who fucking knows?"

>>133685345
he didn't he was always there, to speak into darkness there must be light first.

>>133700507
>Then the answer must be that all things that can be raped have been raped infinitely.
not quite
That must be a lesser number than infinity in order for a non paradoxical statement

>>133685682
i bet he was bored, or he was in war and needs more soldiers, or made other kind of human race but were not good enough

>>133700513
But you are wrong. Women possess the genes to make sperm, and can self procreate. Men do not poses the genes to male eggs. So a women, with proper tech could create, makeing her both a 1 and a 0.

However I do think we can agree men most likely made the tech she would use.

Separately, the slave god is no friend of mine. I do not wish to server him in his fight with his own self created enemy. I wish him luck in solving his schizophrenia.

>it's easy for athiests to swallow that time and outer space have always existed before Man.
Hypocrisy and Double Standards does not a good argument make.

heres all you need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Gotl9vRGs

>>133685345
i just was there

>>133700978
No, infinity is non-ending, and in itself paradoxical. In an infinite line of binary the number of both ones and zeros would be themselves equal to infinity as they would never end.

>>133695506
You mean, as in the self being that procreationary combination of both parents?

>>133695253
This. Only retards cut themselves on blunt edges.

>>133701687
I see myself less as a bodily excretion of my parents and more as a collection of my own thoughts and choices. And to be honest I would assume that we all exist both before and after our lives from a 4th dimensional standpoint, where all of time exists as a single continuous image.

>>133695253
>>133701863
Why underestimate our imagination? This is only his interpretation of the concept of god.

>>133701385
You are assuming time does not exist and the infinity is not still progressing towards infinity.
Where everything that happens is not still moving towards results. its ok to say infinity is numbers that never end, but it is not ok to say that a number which already happened will disappear from ever happening in the fullness of infinity. it still existed once and cannot be different. Nor is it ok to say that because infinite numbers exist there must be infinite copies of those numbers. Who's to say where it begins or ends?, yes, but in between infinity as a structure there are finite laws and rules for the concepts and lesser structures within.