thoughts on capitalism ?

>>133616065

Works great but the government is inevitably shit. Capitalism is a great fucking force you absolutely cannot trust. And inevitably i gets a hold of the government and gets its way until the people get pissed off enough to do something.

Better then a centralized economy though because the government needs less power. Small government is really what keeps you from getting shot.

>>133616065
If you dont have a concious its ok.

>>133616065
Only way to organize production that works.
Must be regulated to avoid degenerating into monopolies and take externalities into account.

>>133616338

You are thinking of the collectivist systems.

USSR logic:
Make everyone poor to defeat inequality

>>133616237
>but the government is inevitably shit
how ?

File: 1500040021198.jpg (98KB, 960x529px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 960x529px

>>133616065
let's be honest here

>>133616478
What's wrong with natural monopolies? They're not even real monopolies and they get to have such a huge market share because they are efficient and productive, why do you want to punish that to force less able companies to fill the demand?

Capitalism mixed with any sort of authority is unbearable, unless everything is decentralized someone is always getting fucked.

IE authoritarian media like the mainstream media fucks over any demographic they just can't reach.

>>133616065
Good idea at first, clusterfuck later.

>>133617262
Because they stifle competition and can eventually use their leverage to lobby the state into making them impossible to remove.

Note that when I say regulate, that doesn't necessarily mean to restrict them that much, just to maintain an healthy level of competition and to keep the barrier to entry as low as possible.

Both sides of that diagram are kind of correct imho. class struggle is a real thing AND there is a minority of predators that exploit everyone else along all class lines.

>>133617072

Governments nature is to turn shitty. You put someone in power and tell them to solve problems. What do they need? Control. Inevitable you end up with some asshole in control because humans are imperfect. The smaller local governments work better because a) the leader sees the problems and people with their own eyes. & b) you can get together with your neighbors and go talk to that person if needed.

The larger the government the more separation. And sometimes this can help a leader be more logical and less emotional about shit but long term the leaders turn shitty and the bigger the government the worse this is.

This is why so many people believe in small local government. Its why the US is a collection of smaller state governments and the states should always be fighting for as much power out of the hands of the fed as possible.

>>133617504
They don't stifle competition, they perform better than the competition. Apple got to a monopoly in music players by offering a product the vast majority of people wanted, what do you think should have been done about that, break them up, force them to under produce and people would have to buy lesser products? Standard Oil got a atural monopoly by inventing new ways to extract oil and making new chemicals to sell. Only government can stifle competition, private companies only perform better. Also the problem with using state regulation is the state, not private companies.

Also whenever government tries to regulate anything, the sleepy bureaucrats aren't the one writing laws, they get "expert" from those industries to regulate the industry, which often ends up being that private companies write the laws regarding their industry and those laws advantage whatever company they work(ed) for and that is what stifles competition, the state isn't a third actor totally unbiased, it is always a tool used by people.

>>133616065
The idea of "free market" is just a way to let the average person think they can make money while in fact it's just a cheap excuse to let few individual get excessively rich and being able to control politics from behind the stage
In other words it's a huge scam, worsen by the fact that any time you address the elephant in the room you are called communists or some shit, while in fact it would be just perfect to be able to run business (no change for the average person) without people getting more powerful than governments

>>133617281
>decentralized

This is the key though. It seems the more centralization in any system the more fucked things get.

>>133616065
...wait what are the fucking axes in this image?

>>133616065
The problem is that this "right enemy" in the picture will always be present in a completely free market capitalist system. Regulations are necessary in order to take the sharp edges off capitalism, so to speak. This is the reason Western and Northern European countries have been so succesful in creating good economic environments for business as well as high living standards for everyone. We are still capitalist countries, but we use free market capitalism as a foundation to build on, not as a perfect and complete system all by itself. It's just a simple matter of realism over idealism to recognise that a lack of rules leads to bad behavior in some.

>>133617100
I was just about to do this

>>133617504

Natural monopolies are something else look it up.

>>133617891
>They don't stifle competition, they perform better than the competition.

At first. I'm not denying that to kill all competitors you have to have something good.

But once they are there, they can basically stop improving and use their power to destroy or absorb any newcomer, even with a better product.

Which is why you break up the AT&Ts of the world, because you need to maintain a certain amount of competition. And don't come up and say that this is against rewarding success because those breakups are usually an opportunity to make even more money.

>>133616065
Thanks to capitalism, I have to get to work almost an hour before the store opens because if I left fifteen minutes later I'd be thirty minutes late to work.

I haven't are anything but boxed potatoes in two days.

My cars low gas light is on, and I know for certain I won't make it back home on the current gauge.

And I am still against communism because of be even poorer and unhappier than I am now, and no doubt angrier.

>>133616065
has to be so

if I raise a cow, I deal with her milk

>>133617262
Correction. They got to be huge through a combination of efficiency, productivity and luck IN THE PAST. The moment they become too big to fail is the moment the whole has gone to shit. Good luck with your "competition" then. It's not like those huge corporations wield any political power or have dealings with organized crime. Nope.

>>133618211

This is factually not true. In the US upward mobility is demonstrably real and people move in and out of the 1% at a high rate.

Democracy needs works to keep the problems at bay but capitalism is working fantastically.

>>133618416
>public utilities
Well then there's even more reason to regulate that shit.

File: main-qimg-5a0cdc23f682bcbae29aa9046e0ab912-c.jpg (62KB, 602x527px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 602x527px

>>133616065
Shit and Good at the same time.

>>133616065
Capitalism is shit, just neo-aristocracy. Equating it with free-market competition is probably the greatest propaganda win ever accomplished. In reality, you just have to read the word, 'Capital'-ism. It's a philosophy of permitting/encouraging extreme wealth concentration (the creation of overwhelming financial powers) in order to create or preserve a class/caste system. Most Capitalists are anti-competitive racketeers and rent-seekers. True believers in free-market economics and competition recognize the need for market regulation.

File: 176238568.jpg (66KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 850x400px

Capitalism is literally the greatest system ever divized by man for distributing resources.

Prove me wrong, communist faggots.

>>133618211
Open any manual of economy and then actually read Das Kapital instead of repeating what you heard.

>>133618211
>powerful than governments

The problem is governments becoming more powerful then people gets a very high body count.

>>133618603
Imports niggers
Erodes cultures
Puts women into the workforce
Pushes for more degenerate culture so it can sell more

There just off the top of my head

what's wrong with rent. it provides a service.

File: IMG_0359.jpg (339KB, 777x728px) Image search: [Google]

339KB, 777x728px

>>133616065
Best economic system

>>133618560
>Most Capitalists are anti-competitive racketeers and rent-seekers.
you're not wrong

>>133618479
Yep

>>133618560
>implying capitalism has to be laissez faire to be capitalism
You've got your definitions all wrong anon, capitalism is just the idea of using banking to create more money than actually exists to finance new ventures fast enough to create and sustain high growth.

You can be for regulation and capitalist, like socdems for instance.

>>133618626
>>133618653
>>133618517
? I'm not addressing anything in particular and I'm definitely not a communist or a socialist
the shitty italian situation opened my eyes. A democratically elected government, which should be the utmost rapresentation of democracy, sort of bends knee in front of multibillionaire people who should have absolutely no saying in politics (like Soros, but he definitely is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak), whose NGO can change the tide of anything he wants like he did in the ukrainian crisis
During 1992 we had a huge political crisis in italy, "mani pulite", where tl;dr every politician (literally, EVERY one) was proven to be corrupted to the bone. One of our biggest firms in Italy (Enimont) corrupted everyone with a super bribe of 140,000,000,000 of italian lire, so that no politican would try to investigate or stop their trafficking. That's extremely dangerous and a society where this is possible is not democratic

>>133618528

Natural monopolies are supposed to have regulation. More then just normal business which should be the minimum to keeps shit from blowing up. Things like fire codes and no lead in paint.

Public Utilities are bound by a hole other level of regulation which is why there are constant talks about comcast and at&t and net neutrality and shit. This is already a thing in capitalism.

And the government constantly fucks it up which should give you a good clue about what would happen if the government had more power. Essentially natural monopolies occur when something in the world stops you from having a free market that works. For data utilities the idea is that a bunch of companies do not have the interest to lay all the wires just to get some of the customers.

Honestly though this needs to be weakened. I wonder if we could have the local government lay the lines and have private companies compete to maintain them. And then let the utilities compete on the hardware that is owned by the city/town whatever.

>>133618874
sounds like he knows what's going on and you're a slave.

stay a while and listen.

>>133618211
Capitalism and free markets are about economics, you commies always bring in government and politics because you don't understand that it's separate, unlike communism. If government is corrupt, why blame the economic system?

>>133618388
Unfairness will always exist, along with bad people, the best way to deal with it is to punish them after, not strangle the market before something has happened.

>>133618421
Funny you bring up AT&T, they got to where they are by using government and with government being impatient with the laying of telephone lines back in the day. Not by offering good services. So you blame natural monopolies like Windows because of government monopolies like AT&T.

>>133618507
How so? When is it too big to fail? That idiom only comes from government stepping in the market, not from capitalism.

>>133618874
>banking to create more money than actually exists to finance new ventures fast enough to create and sustain high growth.

That's fractional reserve banking and it existed prior to capitalism, capitalism is simply an economic system in which there is a free market.

>>133618603
Capitalism is just the lesser evil of communism. They both fucking blow.

Until we develop a system where government actually has more power than finance and the true will of smart british people is represented. Not of those brainwashed liberal sheep, 20 year old children, people who vote for stupid reasons etc.

Democracy was a mistake, we should only let those with reasonable opinions vote. People of today would hate it, until they see the results it brings.

>>133617891
more Hayek, less Rand, faggot

>>133618707
These are the complaints of an ethno-nationalist Natsoc. While I'm not saying you're wrong, on a purely economic sense capitalism is using those things to grow. Again, government intervention and a merging of federal power into economic models exacerbates these problems into crisis. Trying to compare National Socialism and Free market capitalism is tough since there arent many examples to compare against. Unless we consider the Nordic countries but that again goes back to my statement about the government abusing it's power concerning economics.

>>133616065
Looks accurate just move the slice completely over to the left hand side where it belongs

File: 9e5e3707fad7f54766a56cf9b62900c0-imagepng.png (305KB, 2550x3300px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 2550x3300px

>>133616065
Works better than Communism, but there is a better way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vMypCinkRk

>>133619051
>That's fractional reserve banking and it existed prior to capitalism, capitalism is simply an economic system in which there is a free market.
Depends on who you ask. There are multiple definitions, I'll give you that the commonly accepted one is when you have both private property of the means of production and a free market.

>>133619041
Sounds like you don't have much of an argument.

>>133619000

Agreed but thats not the economic system its a problem with democracy. And honestly a problem with human beings. In the west we have gotten decadent and lazy. I hate to bane post but success has defeated us. The people allowed the government to do that shit.

There is hope though. And Trump is proof of it. He may not be a solution but he is proof the people can still say fuck you. And if that is possible maybe the people can actually fix things.

>>133618742
"Rent" is money earned in excess of service provided, in economic theory. Say you inherit an apartment building from your grandfather, and a property management company takes care of it for a fee and sends you a check in the mail for your cut as the owner. The property management company is providing a service, you are just getting a check in the mail for free every month

File: 1500027653037.png (526KB, 1453x862px) Image search: [Google]

526KB, 1453x862px

>>133619499
>flag

Could it be...?

>>133619555

No you are getting paid for the use of your property. That is your building you are just centralizing the management of it with a company. You still need to watch over it and its still your property you could and would do something else with if you didnt get paid rent.

File: 70e.jpg (29KB, 567x565px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 567x565px

>>133619652
I kinda like that faggot, but iirc his economics are uninformed at best.

>>133616065
Capitalism is the Aspergers of ideology, with communism being the full blown retard. When you keep it in its own little corner and let it do its own thing it can produce amazing shit and improve everyone's lives as long as you have someone overseeing it. When you confuse this autistic 'super-productivity' with all around value and decide to make it run things, everything goes to shit and everything becomes a warped degenerate mess.

>>133619885
He's a somewhat decent way to introduce yourself to economic theory. Anyone who sticks around after maybe a few months is just restricting themselves. Far better ways of getting into economics mind you but normies don't like books it seems. E-celebs are the new hotness

I wish I could punch every pro-capitalist right in the mouth

>>133616065
Diagram is true

Leftist like to pretend that poor people are virtuous. In reality, many poor people are complete evil psychos and wouldn't be any be better if they had money. Also, a number of rich people are quite decent.

The most important thing Venezuela showed, is that leftists can't tell what economic policies will destroy a country. To emphasise that point: Chavez and Maduro pursued a range of economic policies that were all applauded by leftists at the point they were introduced, but in the end, the economy is terrible, completely separate from the political repression. Leftists across the world were literally unable to tell which of their brilliant policies destroyed a country until it's too late, and would still be unable to.

>>133619885
Here, since you don't seem to be completely here to shitpost. What are your opinions of Macrons economic policy.

>>133617100
underrated

>>133620189
>In reality, many poor people are complete evil psychos and wouldn't be any be better if they had money.

See

>>133620153
>I wish I could punch every pro-capitalist right in the mouth

Tolerance? Understanding? Enlightenment?
The poor virtuous man who eats cheaply whilst struggling with his studies? No, just animalistic angry shit. Leftists and poor people have a personality problem in addition to any money problems.

>>133616065
I think the "right enemy" side should be describing a curve that expands at the top and bottom, and thins greatly in the middle. Very poor people and very rich people are more likely to be predators than very middle wealth people.

>>133616237
Capitalism that gets "a hold" of government isn't capitalism anymore. That's statism, corruption, cronyism, etc. Capitalism is an antigovernment position. Moreover, capitalism does not claim (as communism does) to require an intermediate government position. To create a capitalist order... release controls. Stop regulating people, stop restraining people. Whatever people do when uncontrolled, THAT IS TRUE CAPITALISM.

>>133620215
He's going for a supply policy, so he's giving incentives to invest (and I probably will use some of those myself actually) but it's pretty standard fare.
Given the current trend is going back to slow but steady growth, it might actually work and I think it's not that bad.

My main concern is that he might not use the right levers and end up giving away tax payer money on useless measures (I'm a bit dubious about the CICE for instance).

But you'll probably hear people screaming about how he's only in it for the rich because he's a banker and so on. I've read the guy and I'm fairly certain that it's not true.

His real test is going to be the coming reform of labour law, unemployment and worker rights are the real issue of France these days, the rest will recover in time.

>>133618874
While I agree with your sentiment, I think using banking as a defining feature of capitalism is wrong. Capitalism means using capital to create more capital. Capital doesn't have to be money, you can use for example human capital to create political capital. In capitalism, power is in the hands of those who have the most capital. As you correctly pointed out, you can be capitalist and still be for regulation. That's because bankers do not necessarily have all the political capital in a functional capitalist country. Now, of course they can use financial capital and convert this into political capital (for example through lobbyists). That's where regulations come in, to limit what you can actually do with your accumulated capital. Without such regulations, capitalism inevitably leads to complete domination of every aspect of life by one organization. This is because capitalism is inherently based on growth and doesn't inherently provide limits to this growth.

I like to use an ecosystem as an analogy. Think of a reef for example. The species living in the reef are individuals, and the reef itself is the country. What looks attractive to people, is a reef full of diverse life, all flourishing. If you get one species which thrives so well there that it uses up the resources that the other species need to survive, and completely dominates the reef, we would consider that reef ruined. Similarly, we want a capitalist country to be a country where there are many different businesses owned by many different people. Therefore, we need to limit how much the individual's capital can grow. Otherwise, again, all aspects of life will inevitably be influenced by one conglomorate, and you end up with the same end result for the people as in Soviet communism. The only difference in that case is that in Soviet communism the conglomorate is called the communist party, and in the failed capitalist state it's called Google or General Electric.

>>133616065
The system itself makes sense at surface level (the amount of money you make is dependent on the quality of work, managing competence, and relevance of the product you are selling/ producing) but unregulated it has grim consequences on humanity since "profit > everything". It grinds what ever beauty there is in art such as music by mass producing dull, repetitive instrumentals with subversive lyrics. It lobbies for free movement of all peoples, especially third worlders who will work for scraps, and loose to no border control at the expense of displacing the native population since it means cheaper labor wages for Mr. Shoahstein at Shoahstein Farms.

Those are just a couple of examples. Marxism fights human nature, unregulated capitalism fights humanity.

>>133620746
How about the handling of the migrant crisis? Unfortunately it is as much an economic strain as much as it is a social one

>>133619051
How do you envision punishing them after instead of strangling the market throught regulations? Based on what laws would you punish them then? Would be just haphazardly decide what we like and don't like, and expect businessmen to accurately judge how people will feel about their actions?

>>133621212
*through
*be=we

File: 1496246935124.jpg (9KB, 338x332px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 338x332px

>>133617100

>>133620659
>Capitalism that gets "a hold" of government isn't capitalism anymore. That's statism, corruption, cronyism, etc. Capitalism is an antigovernment position. Moreover, capitalism does not claim (as communism does) to require an intermediate government position. To create a capitalist order... release controls. Stop regulating people, stop restraining people. Whatever people do when uncontrolled, THAT IS TRUE CAPITALISM.

If you got rid of all control there would be no government to gain control of. Any point where the business sector has to too much influence on government is not capitalism.

I dont think we can be without a government but I dont blame the governmental problems on the economic system. I do think our large governments have too much control right now. The US fed should be fought for every inch the states can get. And the local governments should fight their states. Power only moves up if we absolutely need it to. And the EU should die before it gets worse.

>>133620926
The situation in Syria is going to stabilize and even though people meme about it, France is pretty strict with migrants. The social service strain exists, but it's pretty slim compared to Germany.

That said it's nowhere near the huge problem unemployment is over here.

If anything the wider problem will come from EU borders when the next immigration wave eventually comes, but I think Macron wanted to put money on the table to solve that with the Germans.

>>133621464

Syria will only stabilize if the fucking Neo cons dont get an excuse to make more intervention happen. And Turkey is looking to fuck shit up.

File: rigtwinglpidiots.jpg (41KB, 754x382px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 754x382px

>>133616065
fuck rent seekers

>>133621537
I'm fairly certain Turkey is going to go to war with the EU in the coming decade. But that's all the more reason to get our armies ready.

I'm not too keen on giving the german some of our nukes tho.

File: 9f9.jpg (28KB, 613x533px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 613x533px

>>133618560
>the free market needs market regulation

That's some war is peace-tier doublethink faggot

File: marxandfriedmanonthesamepage.jpg (61KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 640x480px

>>133618603
capitalism lacks a method of dealing with common resources. In fact it doesn't even recognize the commons.

>>133621656

I would be very much surprised if the EU doesn't cuck to them especially Germany. The recent shit with Turkish politicians visiting Europe to campaign was a real eye opener for people. There are actual colonies no one wants to admit are colonies in Europe.

How the hell could you go to war with that inside your boarders. Europe is going to either have to cuck or go through some real shit fighting their way out of this.

File: TkkrWa5.jpg (54KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 640x480px

Georgism fixes capitalism's flaws

>>133621601
I also noticed a lot of people who cry about "property being theft" will defend usury.

>>133618218
Funny that ignorant historians credit centralization to most of human achievement.

We really do need a revision of history to show the truth of whats really responsible for human flourishing.

>>133616065
>Rent-seekers

God forbid that you be expected to pay someone for using their property

>>133621601

>hey check out this rare anecdote and how it should determine policy

Fuck off commie.

File: propertyrights.jpg (517KB, 1637x866px) Image search: [Google]

517KB, 1637x866px

>>133622027
Ive noticed a lot of people dont know what self ownership and natural rights actually imply. Read pic related and maybe youll understand. I dont support Proudhon or that notion.

>>133616065

>HOW DARE YOU RENT A PROPERTY

Fuck off mate. Rental market has to exist because some people will never earn enough money to buy a house in the area of their choice.

The options are:

1) A private rental market
2) Government owns all housing and moves you around as it chooses

Your shout.

>>133621601
That comic has lots of holes.
>never visited property
>sanding next to property to talk to a tenant
>never visited property
>built a house on the property for the tenant to rent
>never visited property
>built a windmill on the property
>never visited property
>landscaping is clearly done

Leftist memes are retarded.

>>133621924

Though Ill add that a real war up close with some nationalism driving your side might actually get people to integrate. Everyone mocks American pride but it fucking allows immigrants to be part of something. It allows people to join together.

>>133622027
>natural rights
Show me these natural rights.

>>133622074
The difference between being a property owner who rents and a rent shark is how much you charge or do really fucking shifty things to exploit your tenets.

>>133622303
I meant to reply to >>133622156

File: game-design-3-638.jpg (66KB, 638x479px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 638x479px

>>133622171
Call me a commie again faggot! Im advocating for Georgism witch is one of mans greatest defenses of capitalism. Here are some of the best parts

>Georgeism reconciles common land rights with private tenure, free markets and modern capitalism.

>Those who got the upper hand by securing land tenures would support public services, so wages and commerce and capital formation could go untaxed.

>To pay the taxes, landowners would have to use the land by hiring workers (or selling to owner-operators and owner-residents). This would raise demand for labor; labor, through consumption, would raise demand for final products.

>To pay the workers, landowners would have to produce and sell goods, hereby raising supply and precluding inflation. Needed capital would come to their aid by virtue of its being untaxed. Thus, George would cut the Gordian knot of modern dilemma-bound economics by raising demand, raising supply, raising incentives, improving equity, freeing up the market, supporting government, fostering capital formation, and paying public debts, all in one simple stroke.

>>133621898
>have capitalism
>define some areas as commons, like a commons park in the city or a commons national park
>wow, we have capitalism and commons

it's amazing what is possible in this day and age

>>133622074
Rent seeking to trying to use government influence to gaurentee income, like through gov enforced monopolies or occupational liscences.

File: adamsmithisageoist.jpg (67KB, 960x480px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 960x480px

>>133622171
>George's proposal enables us to lower taxes on labor without raising taxes on capital. Indeed, it lets us lower taxes on both labor and capital at once, and without reducing public revenues.

> Georgist tax policy reconciles equity and efficiency. Taxing land is progressive because the ownership of land is so highly concentrated among the most wealthy,'8 and because the tax may not be shifted. It is efficient because it is neutral among rival land-use options: the tax is fixed, regardless of land use. This is one favourable point on which many modern economists actually agree, although they keep struggling against it
> Georgist tax policy contains urban sprawl, and its heavy associated costs, without overriding market decisions or consumer preferences, simply by making the market work better. land values are the product of demand for location; they are marked by continuity in space. That shows quite simply that people demand compact settlement and centrality. A well-oiled land market will give it to them.

>>133621898
Property rights are the only way to resolve the tragedy of the commons and create a peaceful society. I'm not sure you guys realize just how much private property & freedom breed peace where it's easier to buy an apple than to steal one, its got all the right incentives but its not our fault evil men & women are always trying to leech & piggy back off of propersity.

>>133622041

Connection through trade is the biggest driver. The problem is people pull a slight of hand thing to turn that into centralization of power. You see this currently any time someone from the EU speaks. They try to pretend that the inevitable part of globalism demands their existence when in reality nation states can work out trade on their own.

>>133622074
That's not rent seeking.

>>133622171

If that's your only criticism of the comic then its point still stands. Also you don't have to visit a property to rent it out anyway, you can get other people to do that shit for you.

>>133621656
An EU army is the last thing to help. Putting that much power in the hands of the officials in Brussels is just asking for annexation. Strengthening national armies is a great idea as well as reinforcing alliances but an extra-national army under a federated state of unelected officials isn't a good idea. This is coming from a burger mind you so I'm not really the best opinion here, just my two cents.

File: locked.jpg (151KB, 500x651px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 500x651px

>>133622171
> Georgist tax policy creates jobs without inflation, and without deficits. "Fiscal stimulus," in the shallow modern usage, is a euphemism for running deficits, often with funny money. George's proposed land tax might be called, rather, "true fiscal stimulus". It stimulates demand for labor by promoting employment; it precludes inflation as the labor produces goods to match the new demand. It precludes deficits because it raises revenue. That is its peculiar reconciliatory genius: it stimulates private work and investment in the very process of raising revenue. It is the only tax of any serious revenue potential that does not bear down on and suppress production and exchange. As I have noted, George's fiscal policy takes two problems and composes them into one solution.

> George's land tax lets a polity attract people and capital en masse, without diluting its resource base. This is by virtue of synergy, the ultimate rationale for Chamber-of-Commerce boosterism. Urban economists like William Alonso have illustrated the power of such synergy by showing that bigger cities have more land value per head than smaller ones. (Land value is the resource base of a city.) Urbanists like Jane Jacobs and Holly Whyte have written on the intimate details of how this works on the streets. Julian Simon (The Ultimate Resource) philosophizes on the power of creative thought generated when people associate freely and closely in large numbers. Henry George made the same points in 1879

>Georgist policies encourage the conservation of ecology and environment while also making jobs, by abating sprawl. It is a matter of focusing human activity on the good lands, thus meeting demands there and relieving the pressure to invade lands that are now wild and marginal for human needs. Sprawl in the urban environment is the kind most publicized, but there is analogous sprawl in agriculture, forestry, mining, recreation and other land uses and industries.

File: AnarchismTree09.gif (37KB, 586x378px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 586x378px

>>133622171
>Georgist policies strengthen public revenues while in the same process promoting economy in government. Anti-governmentalists often identify any tax policy with public extravagance. Georgist tax policy, on the contrary, saves public funds in many ways. By facilitating the creation of jobs it lowers welfare costs, unemployment compensation, doles, aid to families with dependent children and all that. It lowers jail and police costs, and all the enormous private expenditures, precautions, and deprivations now taken to guard against theft and other crime. Idle hands are not just wasted, they steal and destroy

>>133621886
No, it's not. Not all free market philosophy is meme-tier ancap bullshit. Quite the opposite.

>>133622328
>>133622464

Again the problem is a government that allows them. This is not solved by pretending there is something wrong with rent. Its by either shrinking the government or kicking people out of office for allowing this shit to happen. Social media gives the people alot more power then we have figured out in the current age.

>>133622626
I agree whole heartedly

>>133621993
>to society
if only

>>133621993
Unless you are sitting on goldmines and oil wells, it doesn't really sustain much. Georgism could work back when physiocratic thinking wasn't just for simpletons.

And it's not like landowners never invest time and capital in developing their properties; it's really not apples and oranges like the graph seems to suggest.

File: billbo.jpg (44KB, 400x252px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 400x252px

>>133622161
>Rental market has to exist because some people will never earn enough money to buy a house in the area of their choice

this is because of the government granted land monopoly that allows for speculation. What we need is a system that gets land competing for man

>>133622464
My mistake, I thought "rent seeking" was referring to statist bullshit like>>133621601

>>133622568
I've never read the works of this type of thing (Georgism) but it always seemed to me to be pretty reasonable.

controlling the excesses of capitalism is very important and making sure that the vast majority of people in a country aren't permanently indebted to a tiny "land-owning class" that just sits on land and grows fat by it seems to me to be a good idea for society as a whole.

>>133622161
The earth's land is very finite so with the constant (((growth))) capitalism requires, prices will continue to spiral out of control until all the land is owned by a select few oligarch rent collectors and the rest of us are slaves

>>133616065
yep
rent seekers, cronies and FUCKING SPENDING
There are two types of spending:
spending to the commons: widespread infrastructure and roads that benefit all
and SPENDING TO THE INTEREST
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT HOW
NIGGER OBAMA
TRIPLED THE NIGGER-FUCKING DEBT
BUT DID SO
BUT MAKING ALL SPENDING
THE WORST TYPE OF SPENDING
HOLY SHIT YOU NIGGERS
50 YEARS OF THE INTERNET AND YOU STILL WILL HAVE NEVER READ THAT NOT ALL SPENDING IS EQUAL
THE NIGGER
RAPED
THE
FUCKING
COUNTRY
OH: anarchocancers are CUNTS
fuck you cunt
you analrape commie

>>133622471
In the USA, lots of land is owned by poor and middle-class people. See farmers.

expose jewry freemasonry police, lawyers, clergy rule over goyim. scarlet book of freemasonry

File: commonvsstateprop.jpg (778KB, 1695x961px) Image search: [Google]

778KB, 1695x961px

>>133622875
This picture might help you better understand common vs state property

fun fact Marx was a contemporary of George and absolutely despised him; he called georges ideas "capitalism's last ditch". George was no fan of Marx either calling him the "prince of the muddle heads"

>>133622415
>criticizes retarded leftist meme
>believes i called him a commie
>being this bad at larping

>>133622601
Are you literally retarded? By very definition a regulated market is not free, I'm not necessarily saying that I don't support market regulation but calling it free market economics is like calling The Vatican City a secular nation

>>133622987
not the valuable land

>>133617262
none but certain actions must be monitored:
but with corruption, how is anything possible?
from the corruption of the thought of the idiots who replied to you
to the corruption of those overseeing this
they cannot leverage monopolies
and they cannot create from gov handouts
this is the greatest of all evils

>>133622415
>>133622471
>>133622541
>>133622568
>>133622599
>being this autistic on a korean sewing chatroom

>>133622471

There is a never ending fight about land taxing in the US already. The government not taxing investment land that passes from generation to generation. Allows rich people to dodge taxes. The government taxing gains in land value as the land moves from generation to generation fucks farmers who havent made much profit for a long time. And have land that increases in value.

See the estate tax or death tax depending on who is talking about it.

File: 798.png (306KB, 593x540px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 593x540px

>>133623301
>ancap flag
>calling anyone else autistic

>>133622541
>Also you don't have to visit a property to rent it out anyway, you can get other people to do that shit for you.

You can pay other people to do that for you and then you need to watch them instead of the land. You do not have a point. If they were not renting the land the free market for drive them to do something else with it. You pay rent because you are using someones thing anon.

>>133623334
Their land value is only increasing because of sprawl and an LVT would control sprawl. The LVT would also help farmers by eliminating all other taxes they are forced to pay on labor, equipment, ect

>>133621212
Under a state, create laws punishing defrauders and the like. It's hard to envision a law against a potential criminal when the actions aren't even defined. Which exactly are the people who should be regulated out?

Rent seeking for the illiterate are things like Taxi cartels lobbying to apply taxes/levies to Uber to subsidize their failures or Elon Musk pushing an environmentalist crap to get tax payer funded grants rather than producing something for voluntary pay, not literally renting ir trying to raise rent. Ya fools baka desu.

The only system of economics worth a damn.

>>133623183
It has some value. The owner of low-value land may pay less than owners of high-value land, but still more than non-owners.

Georgism might keep real-estate tycoons (Trump-types) and oil barons (Exxon Mobile-types) in check, but the richest individuals are in high-finance or high-tech.

>>133623494
>british flag
>still having a queen in the current year

>>133623494
>anime reaction image
>any criticism

(you)

>>133623647
That's actually a really good way of explaining it tbqh

>>133623505

Land always increases in value. The saying is that land is the one thing they are not making more of. Land always goes up.

And you would not help them much with the taxes on that stuff. They are in a shit position because government intervention to keep the food supply stable since the world wars has basically broken any way to be a profitable farmer on your own. Corporations swooped in and now most of the farming systems are completely fucked. Look up the problems farmers have. They need to bend over to a corp or they wont be able to exist. And the Gov isnt going to want to fix it because of a) the benefits stable and bountiful food have brought us. b) people get pissed if food prices go up and the politicians get blamed immediately c) third the gov uses cheap subsidized food as a means in controlling and influencing other countries. See mexico unable to make its own corn cheaper then buying it from us.

File: landright.jpg (12KB, 327x154px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 327x154px

>>133623828
Why would anyone have a problem with people reaping the fruits of their labor though?

My issue is with unearned community enhanced wealth than never makes its way to the people who did the enhancing.

Georgism is in no way anti capitalist

>>133616065

Pure capitalism is as far fetched as pure communism. You need a mix of capitalistic and socialistic governing to get anything done.

>>133619262
That's the fucking point. Capitalism is inherently flawed as is communism because it is utterly materialistic and cares not for the soul of the volk and of the culture. This is why Capitalism will always lead to Globalism.

>>133624041
I think upon further examination you'll find that an LVT would help most small farmers. The giant agricorps would get fucked though

First, farm land is not particularly valuable land relative to urban land or even land in the center of a small town.

Second, compared to residential and commercial property, it turns out that farms tend to have a lower share of their total value in land, because (a) farming requires a number of different kinds of buildings; and (b) farming requires a lot of equipment, which may be subject to property taxes.

Land value taxation asks us each to pay our share of taxes based on our land value's share of total land value within the taxing entity. It says that the value of the improvements we or previous owners have made to the land are inherently private, but that the land value, which the individual owner can't claim credit for, is fair game for taxation.

Land value taxation is good for farmers in another important way: it acts to slow, and even reverse, urban sprawl. By providing the incentives to put centrally located land to its highest and best use, land value taxation prevents the premature development of land on the fringe. Farmland stays farmland. Wilderness stays wilderness. We don't end up with checkerboard development and long commutes

>>133624236
I'm not disagreeing with you, I just struggle to think that Natsoc is the best option since it's so untested.

>>133618603
Gonna be hard for you to run a business, and harder still to enjoy the fruits of your labor, when gangs of rapefugees and negros roam about.

>>133619885
>not a quick rundown

>>133624460
Don't insult our overlords, they don't have to post here, they just influence the fabric of reality so that people meme their posts naturally.
Ask Macron.

DUDE POLYCENTRIC LAW LMAO

Glad to see youre all Georgists now

>>133624233
get what done ?

>>133625687
dude anarchism
dude natural rights lmao

>>133623571
Doesn't creating a law mean take action against something that hasn't already happened? You said you were for punishing peopke after something happened and against strangling the market before anything has happened. What kind of regulations are you against exactly?

File: image_6.jpg (209KB, 900x968px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 900x968px

Idiot here, cheated my way through economics, economics teacher was a jew who said governments can't survive without debt

Can someone please explain in simple terms what's going on here about the rental market and all?

>>133623114
literal autism. 'free market economics' refers broadly to systems which permit private property and encourage competition as a means of progress. free-market doesn't just mean laissez-faire/ancap, and it CERTAINLY doesn't just mean 'Capitalism' (all three of which are most often just cyncial propaganda used by 'Capitalist' aristocracy).

It separates the strong from the weak from the fagots. It allows for the white race to spread due to them being able to succeed and keeps the kikes, spics and niggers from breeding.

>>133616065
That image only leads to National Socialism, my dude.

>>133622464
>>133622875
'rent-seeking' is just what it says. rents are economically destructive as a rule.

>>133627850
>Kikes bad at business
Really gets the noggin joggin

>>133627217
actual economics debate instead of 'capitalism' vs 'communism' bogeyman. it's probably beyond your comprehension.

>>133616065
>>133616065
Why is porky telling you leftist faggots what to think?

File: 1490728767881.jpg (8KB, 251x201px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 251x201px

>>133617100
I don'[t get