What are some secular arguments against gay marriage?

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>>133578283
I guess just the most simple that it really goes against logic. In that human beings need to mate with the opposite sex to survive. It offers no benefit to the human civilization other than people self proclaiming themselves to have a weird sexual attraction. And more so lately a culture that fixates really on forcing this stuff down peoples throats. Idk how old you were in the 90s or 2000s but back then anti gay marriage was considered the norm and the most liberal position was usually oh well let them be and things like pedos were never accepted at all. You probably would've gotten your face bashed in for even bringing up the idea of letting some sicko who molested a young little girl so idk. Really i guess the secular argument is that its Literally the biggest virtue signal ever. Seriously the biggest virtue signal i've ever seen.

>>133578283
So when people make the argument for the slippery slope i generally can agree and see where they're coming from. Even if i was in support of the lgbtqppit culture i'd still say yes the slippery slope is a thing cause gay rights didn't magically appear it happened over years of chipping away. I think there was a recent article about how three lesbians in Columbia had a three way marriage. A three way marriage!? Wtf see so yea i personal don't get it.

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>>133578752
>resorting to pedophilia as a straw man

Only to play along - marriage as an institution began to ensure men cared for their offspring, preventing men from wandering and leaving the financial care of the child to the state. Marriage also promoted population growth so that the king could have more soldiers, more farm works, more tax payers, etc. Gay marriage fulfills none of those things. And there are no issues of child legitimacy with gays as well.

>>133579195
Is that the only point you took from that? Nice selective argument you got there.

>>133578283
it's an evolutionary dead-end

>>133578283
I don't really have a problem with gays professing their love and deciding to stay faithful to each other for life, my issue comes down to everything that seems to surround it and it's political implications.

>>133579757
So are condoms

>>133579016
That was actually 3 gay guys who had a three way

>>133579681
We shouldn't have to bear second class kids because you can't deal with your feeling around a word. I want to be married when I adopt or have surrogate kids and not have to fuss with a second-partner adoption.

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>>133580657
Please get off this fucking liberal hell hole cucked planet :*(

>>133579195
>Really i guess the secular argument is that its Literally the biggest virtue signal ever

Ya missed his main thesis

>>133578283
simple: Gay marriage wasn't illegal even before the supreme court or even any states legalized it. Nobody was stopping fags from holding a ceremony and saying "Hey guys, we are husbands now." What we WERE stopping them from is receiving government marriage benefits, such as tax relief.

Here's the root of the argument: Why do governments give handouts to people getting married? So they can have babies and raise them in a good environment. Are fags doing that? I didn't think so.

TL/DR
Legalization of gay marriage is just a way for fags to get gibsmedats

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>>133578283

>>133583090
What is surrogacy and adoption?

Do infertile couples have their tax benefits revoked?

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>>133578283
Homosexuality is degenerate

>>133578283
How about the fact that it is a fertility rite symbolic of a man and woman's ability to reproduce. Why should a bunch of degenerate cocksuckers with arsehole fetishes appropriate and change the meaning of a thousands of year old tradition?

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>>133583230
They do not. Remember the second part of it, and raise them in a good environment. Infertile couples can raise the kids of dead parents or degenerate single mothers so they don't grow up to become criminals.

Fags shouldn't be part of this because they are statistically horrible parents and do things like pic related.

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>>133583529
>statistically horrible parents

>>133578283
destroys social stability

>>133583529
Can you find me a single study saying that they are poor parents when they are allowed to marry before having kids?

>>133583618
Netherlands has had gay marriage for over 15 years and they are doing just fine.

>>133583230
Surrogate is the genetic mix of a man and woman two men CANNOT create life! And why should two men even be allowed to raise someone else's kid? Also why should they revive tax benifits to do so?

>>133583711
Nobody said two men could create life.

They paid for it.

Because everyone who is raising kids gets tax benefits. We don't have a tiered system prizing biological kids over surrogacy and adoption.

>>133583709
In Australia it's still illegal for faggots to marry and we are doing great

The purpose of marriage is to provide a stable environment for a woman to bear and raise children.

Fags have nothing to do with that.

No babies, no family

>>133583657
https://www.statista.com/statistics/676902/child-abuse-victimization-by-sexual-orientation-canada/
first thing that came up

I'm secular and while I'm not against gay marriage, I do think it's retarded to want to have a traditional marriage with a church and a priest and all that. Why get married in a manner that represents an ideology that says you're an abomination that should be killed?

>>133583808
That will likely change soon. It happened in a matter of a few weeks in Germany and a few months in Malta. You are next on the list.

>>133583864
What does that have to do with married gay couples raising kids?

>>133583924
I fully support churches being able to refuse marrying gay couples. A priest has NEVER been forced to perform a same-sex marriage.

>>133583804
Fags shouldn't be able to raise kids because they can't naturally make them
Definitely shouldn't be government funded to do it

>>133578283
Everyone has the same equal right to marry somebody of the opposite sex.

>>133583924
>Why get married in a manner that represents an ideology that says you're an abomination that should be killed?

Not everyone is a biblical literalist.

>>133584005
Government is not funding surrogacy or adoption.

>>133578283
Marriage is and always has been for man and woman.

If fags want something similar, they should find a new name. And married fags shouldn't have the same privileges (tax breaks etc.) as married people. Faggots are mentally ill and cannot give birth to new children, but new children (taxpayers) is exactly what the state wishes to incentivize by granting tax breaks for married couples.

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none

one could argue there's gays due to gays usually being forced to marry to evade getting the shit kicked out of them or killed. they'll phase themselves out of the genepool eventually

that's the most redpilled approach

>sure, get pegged all you like
>400 years later people read about men pegging each other and hooting\hollaring about accepting it
>well we accepted it
>now they're gone by their own choosing
i don't even think that's cynical or messed up, nor do i hate gay people. but if you(OP) don't like them, that in my opinion should be your mindset but who the fuck am i to tell you what to think

>>133584081
>due to gays usually being forced to marry to evade getting the shit kicked out of them or killed.
I mean at any time before our century in other parts of the world other than US

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjPQ_jVlEnQ

Here's some more interesting secular information about faggots

>>133578283
Being gay is a mental illness by definition. The high correlation between homosexuality and mental disorders like depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc. is not due to coincidence or the "bulling of their community" as they would have you believe (the majority of them have dozens of supportive outlets).

Basically by allowing gay marriage you are breeding society to have mental illnesses.

>>133583999
oops, that one showed that gayness is caused by being raped as a kid, heres a better one
http://dailysignal.com/2012/06/11/new-research-on-children-of-same-sex-parents-suggests-differences-matter/

>>133583999
>>133584337
here's another one
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/drt/2016/2410392/

happy now degenerate fag?

>>133578283
Well honestly I like to say that it causes unneccesary societal division, as in Australia they already have access to civil unions, and allowing gays to "marry" just causes more trouble than its worth with those who do't like it

>>133578283
>What are some secular arguments against gay marriage?
It's fucking gay.

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>>133584081
>>133584173
and i actually mean that without a smidge of prejudice, i think all the racism and prejudice here waters down some of the dank opinions and redpills here (while conceding justification of such is debatable, doesn't mean i have to agree if it is justified, i'm a christian leaning agnostic and try to have integrity even as anon)

>whoever shared this webm today mmm yes thx

>>133584485
No none of this is about gay married couples. And the Regnerus study classified people as gay parents when they weren't even:

But in scrutinizing Regnerus’ data, Cheng and Powell determined that of the 236 respondents whom Regnerus had identified as having been raised by a lesbian mother or gay father, one-tenth had never even lived with the parent in question and an additional one-sixth hadn’t lived with that parent for more than one year. Still more had provided inconsistent or unreliable responses to survey questions, throwing their reliability into doubt. That means, Powell says, that over one-third of the 236 people whom Regnerus classified as having been raised by a lesbian mother or gay father “should absolutely not have ever been considered by Regnerus in this study.”

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/new-research-further-debunks-regnerus-study-on-gay-parenting/

>>133584485
>https://www.hindawi.com/journals/drt/2016/2410392/
That guy is literally a Catholic priest who mainly has a job of making studies the Church can use in court cases against gays.

>>133578283
Remove all marriage laws for equality

>>133584788
>Making a character attack on the creator to try to disprove the evidence. Fuck off

>>133584907
Are you saying it isn't possible to manipulate survey data to make gays look bad? We know that Regnerus did it why should I expect this guy has motivations any different?

>>133585004
I mean you have Regnerus and Sullins on the one hand, and then you have mainstream science:

http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

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>>133578283
Homosexuality is bad for society.
Tolerating homosexual marriage allows the behavior to perpetuate.

Homosexuality is NOT "just a different preference". It is an adverse condition/ mental illness that causes self-destructive, antisocial behavior.

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>>133585089
Is it really just "normal" behavior?

>>133585061
>>133585004
I love you guys but I do think it's an advanced form of promiscuity. All my friends who are gay tell me that there was a time "when I thought I was straight."

As for the child molestation stuff, early sexualisation of children makes them more promiscuous

>>133585061
http://archive.is/C7DJF

But just because some studies support this finding doesn't mean it's true. In fact, many, many more studies reached opposite conclusions. "Research ... has developed a scholarly consensus that shows that children raised by same-sex couples are at no important disadvantage," wrote Stanford University sociologist Michael Rosenfeld in an email. "There is a noisy fringe of academics who claim that children raised by same-sex couples are in disastrous peril," a viewpoint which "has little or no credibility within academia."

From an academic perspective, there are a number of flaws in the design of Sullins's research. To his credit, he used a large sample of data compiled by the CDC to test his hypothesis, looking at kids who were living with same-sex parents at the time of various surveys taken between 1997 and 2013. But "what Sullins's paper does not show is that these children were actually raised by the same-sex couple," wrote Rosenfeld in an email.

Reading the paper, it's impossible to say whether the kids in question spent most of their lives with heterosexual parents who then got divorced, for example, or a single parent who had multiple partners over time. This family history matters: "We have decades of research showing that family instability and divorce takes a toll on children," Rosenfeld wrote. Because of this constraint, he said, the paper cannot speak to the way being raised by same-sex parents affects the well-being of children. In an email, Sullins disputed this criticism, pointing to other widely accepted studies on emotional well-being and family structure that rely on the same data.

>>133585281

But there are other objections. In an interview, Abbie Goldberg, a psychology professor at Clark University, pointed out that the situation of gay couples in America has changed a lot since 1997, when social acceptance of homosexuality was significantly lower; kids surveyed at that time were probably more likely to have had a gay parent who divorced his or her opposite-sex partner. Scholars must pay to be published in the journal which accepted Sullins's paper, the British Journal of Education, Society & Behavioural Science, which is run by a for-profit company and not affiliated with any academic society. And although the paper ostensibly went through an "open-access" peer-review process, as University of Maryland professor Philip Cohen pointed out in a blog post, that process is pretty thin.

>>133578283
Having babies is contributing to keeping society going. Financial/etc marriage benefits should be for this reason only. Gays cannot have children, so they can not contribute to keeping society going, so they should not receive benefits.

>>133585268
https://youtu.be/ir8BO4-7DkM

>>133585313
Surrogacy and adoption. Would you rather the kids be raised in orphanages?

>>133585333
yes, LGBTs fuck up kids

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>>133585231
Are we just being "close-minded"?

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>>133585320
Gross.

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>>133585382
Is this child some sort of.... "bigot"?

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>>133585479
Are Christians really the problem?

>>133585061
I ask with a neutral tone - would you be satisfied with any study by any respected institution that concluded children do better with a straight couple than a gay couple, all things being equal? I'm happy to disregard any flawed study. But I'm curious whether there'd ever be a study that you wouldn't dismiss as flawed. I'm not asking whether there are such studies. I'm asking would you ever accept one that concluded such

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>>133585596
Why are there STILL gay pride parades... didn't they get completely equal rights already?

>>133585313
I'm gay and I agree with this. Our fight for civil rights has grown greedy and now seeks special privlages that we don't deserve.

>>133578283
Ask them "If people can be born homosexual, can people be born pedophiles?"

Watch them switch up the rules over and over.

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>>133585699
Where do we draw the line? Pozzing?
I mean....who are we to tell these fine people how to live?

>>133585605
Absolutely if it compared married gay couples to married straight couples. Most research I find against gays is published by Christians to try to squash gay rights in courts. If I had a study by a University or a legitimate secular source I think it could absolutely inform the argument.

The problem is none of the Christians publishing anti-gay research are looking for ways to improve the prospects of kids raised by gays (which will happen regardless of gay marriage legality). They are trying to delegitimize gays as family people when I think the gay community needs and benefits from the civilizing embrace of marriage and families.

If we are forced to marry heterosexuals I think that is overall worse for the children and of course research cannot cover closeted gay parents who only have gay sex in secret and are outwardly heterosexual. I think research against gays just tries to poke us with a stick back in the direction of the closet when what matters is the best outcome for children and equal child-rearing rights.

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/lgb-parent-families-july-2014.pdf

>>133578283
Marriage as a legal contract was meant to relieve families from tax charges.
People who don't plan to have kids should not marry. That goes for most gay couples

>>133585981
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/26/same-sex-marriage/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/212702/lgbt-adults-married-sex-spouse.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

http://www.sheknows.com/love-and-sex/articles/1133556/gay-married-couples-better-health

>>133586163
The study, published in The Gerontologist, involved researchers surveying over 1,800 LGBTQ adults (of all genders) over 50 in the U.S. They found that gay people in a relationship, whether married or in a long-term partnership, showed better health than single people. But people who were married did even better socially and financially than unmarried long-term couples.

>>133578283
The fact that marriage in general is retarded.

>>133586163
What part of what I said is contradicted In the articles?
Change the tax relief and other benefits from married to with children.
How one of the parts in a divorce is entitled to compensation if his/her job was not to grow kids at home?

>>133579757
>>133583090
>>133583504
>>133583804
>>133583862
>>133584005
Until artificial wombs get sufficiently advanced

>>133583856
This is true for male fags, but lesbians can accomplish this if 1 is the preggo femme and the other is the breadwinner.

>>133586238
Surprise surprise, having responsibilities makes you responsible

>>133585089
>Homosexuality is bad for society.
In what sense? In your pic, these things mostly only affect fags themselves, not broader society.
>Tolerating homosexual marriage allows the behavior to perpetuate.
How? Do you also think violent video games cause violence?

>>133586616
Well, namely that the percentage of gays who have children is increasing as a result of the adoption of gay marriage as federal policy.

Infertile couples do not lose tax benefits so the benefit of marriage is about their being 2 people, not kids involved.

>>133585840
faggots need to fucking die. at least they're killing themselves off

>>133578283

It's an oxymoron

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>>133578283
it's gay, only faggots do it and it's infested with aidsbugs.

>>133585951
This 100%. You have more patients than me to get this far anon. Thank you.

>>133585951
you don't have to get married. marriage is a religious ceremony that you deserve no part of. you've destroyed the sanctity of marriage you fucking fag

>>133587636
Marriage existed prior to Christianity and has had a civil option for decades. If marriage was solely a religious ceremony then Christians should have made sure you could only qualify if you had it in a religious space. That wasn't the policy prior to the advent of gay rights, so you can't claim that now.

>>133583709
t. hiv faget

>>133583709
True, adoption is still a bit of an issue though I think. I know this straight married couple that wanted to adopt but couldn't because the guys brother was a pozzed homo.

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>>133587853
>white gays
>hiv

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/19/aids-diagnosis-down/12887823/

LOS ANGELES — There is some good news in the fight against AIDS: The rate of diagnosis for HIV infections has fallen in the United States by a third over the past decade, a study finds.

The report, released Saturday by the Journal of the American Medical Association, can be seen as a sign that the AIDS crisis, which first hit the U.S. in large numbers in the 1980s, is starting to subside.

Coates says most of the young men getting infected are African-American. "Access remains a problem," he says. "Even with the Affordable Care Act, this is a population not used to having access to care. We need to make sure health services are available."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/22/fall-in-hiv-among-gay-men-could-spell-end-for-britains-epidemic-say-experts

In the year beginning October 2015, HIV diagnoses fell by 32% compared with October 2014 to September 2015 among men who have sex with men (MSM) attending five of the biggest London sexual health clinics.

>>133588174
Archive or screenshot please

>https://theguardian com/society/2017/jun/22/fall-in-hiv-among-gay-men-could-spell-end-for-britains-epidemic-say-experts
https://archive.is/FwahI

>>133588009
They wouldn't let them adopt because the brother had HIV?

>>133586801
>do violent videogames cause violence

I would generally agree with your reasoning; however, there is a spike in trans cases suddenly popping up, just as the left takes on trans as it's newest pet. It's not a coincidence. It's unusual to go from 1 in 200,000 to 1 in 2000 in just a few years. And, yes, I'm aware that trans and gay are different.

>>133588217
Guess they didn't want to risk him having a creepy uncle with HIV. Be a shame for the kid to get pozzed so I kinda understand. Anyway, this makes me think it would be hard for gays that are active in the gay community to adopt a kid, since they probably know people with HIV aswell.

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>>133578283
>Made of DNA with pre-coded layout on how to make more of yourself

>Ignore your building blocks and put dicks up your butt

>>133588467
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/autism-rates-are-it-really-rise

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kyle-simon/is-there-a-link-between-autism-and-gender-dysphoria_b_3896317.html

A study conducted by a team of British scientists in 2012 found that of a pool of individuals not diagnosed on the autism spectrum, female-to-male (FTM) transgender people have higher rates of autistic features than do male-to-female (MTF) transgender people or cisgender males and females. Another study, which looked at children and adolescents admitted to a gender identity clinic in the Netherlands, found that almost 8 percent of subjects were also diagnosed with ASD. That figure is nearly four times higher than the rate of ASD in the general population, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Turkish researcher N. M. Mukaddes suggests that this number may even be low, citing the fact that individuals with lower levels of language may be unable to communicate their feelings of dissatisfaction with their assigned gender.

A core theory of autism is that it is an exaggeration of the typically male characteristic of systemizing with a low level of empathizing, considered a female characteristic. Called the extreme male brain (EMB) theory of autism, this theory developed from a body of research that found that males typically exhibit higher performance on tasks designed to test systemization, and lower performance on tasks measuring empathy. The British researcher who originally published this theory, Simon Baron-Cohen, applied it to individuals on the autism spectrum, observing that individuals with ASD generally perform even higher on systemization tasks than do neurotypical males, hence the term “extreme male brain.” As bizarre as these findings may sound, they have been supported by several other studies looking at sex and ASD.

>>133588644
I find your story hard to believe that an adoption agency in the Netherlands would refuse to permit a heterosexual couple to adopt because one of them has a brother who is HIV positive.

>>133588467
One could argue it was the same with autism, more attention/awareness means more people hear about it and realise they have it. I personally think porn-addiction plays a major role.

>>133588700
They told my aunt that is why the adoption fell through. Maybe they lied, but I don't see why they would.

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>>133588795
>porn addiction

man that is an old time chesnut

I think transgender is mostly autistic homosexuals who were unlikely to reveal themselves before.

>>133588931
Well the Netherlands has a law against sexual orientation discrimination so I doubt they would say that, but if they did still, seems farfetched to me. I think your Aunt is lying to you.

>>133589009
I think you hope my aunt is lying to me. Also, HIV is not a sexual orientation.

>>133589205
Well but if they denied an adoption for a commonly gay-related reason other than the ability of the parents to raise a child they might raise the possibility of a lawsuit so I have no idea why they would do that. Also just doesn't sound likely.

Maybe the brother spoke ill of your aunt's ability to parent and she is bitter or something.

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>>133578283
It really depends what their pro argument is, I'll give some examples with answers.

>Love is love, anybody can do whatever they want with their body.
Counter: So can emos commit suicide, are we legalizing bestiality, will we normalize abnormal sexual behavior? So answers can be yes or no, where you now have control on the argumentation, because any No = His first argument is false or incoherent, any Yes however = unscientific, therefore unreasonable.

>I was born like this
Counter: You accept his statement, and then you have to proceed,"So, if being gay is decided at birth, then it has to be biological, thus it is a disability due to the reproductive complications homosexuality creates" Once again, any No = his statement is false, if any yes, then any other "gender" is false, because is not a social construct, and if it is biological it could be considered, disease, condition, etc. so quarantines on homos could apply, and epidemic status too.

>Everyone has a preference
Counter: You can say, that you could have a preference to kill faggots, yet is not "correct" (I disagree) so, imply that even if it is a preference it might not be correct, if asks,"why?" there are multiple statistics about STDs, Childhood trauma, Serial killer statistics, pedo stats, that all have higher rates on faggots, so basically present proofs.

After placing your arguments of homosexuality being bad, unreasonable, and/or dangerous, you have to follow up with a simple question, "What is marriage for?" answer by law definition: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/marriage

Then you state, "the marriage exists to give new obligations to an institution, to avoid conflict in relationships, so if we know that as high 43%* of serial killers are homosexual, why put them together under an institution that is suppose to prevent conflict?" and well, what is left to say? After all of that you should be on a really good position.
*http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html

>>133589307
My aunt doesn't know the brother. Also, since there is a health risk unrelated to sexual preference (kid biting uncle for example) I would imagine that if the brother had been straight and had HIV, they would not be able to adopt either so there is no discrimination. It makes a lot of sense not to place a child in a home where a potentially lethal bio-hazard comes by for dinner once a week.

>>133578283
Gay marriage is the most useless thing ever. Being a fag is a sin. Sinners can't get married.

>>133589757
Wait so he comes by for dinner once a week but your aunt doesn't know him?

>>133589831
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-gaymarriage-idUSKCN0X81EW

OSLO (Reuters) - Norway's Lutheran Church voted on Monday in favor of allowing same-sex marriage, becoming the latest of a small but growing number of churches worldwide to do so.

Last year the French Protestant Church allowed gay marriage blessings, while the U.S. Presbyterian Church approved a change in the wording of its constitution to include same-sex marriage.

In a vote at the annual conference of the Norwegian Lutheran Church on Monday 88 delegates out of 115 in total backed same-sex marriage.

"Finally we can celebrate love independently of whom one falls in love with," said Gard Sandaker-Nilsen, leader of the Open Public Church, a religious movement within the church that had campaigned to change the rules.

Under the new rules, priests who do not want to marry a same-

>>133588954
>I think transgender is mostly autistic homosexuals

Oh my sides. If you are correct, that is hilarious. I almost want you to be correct.

>>133590098
I was speaking in a broader sense, meaning that if I was an adoption agency I would not place a child in close proximity to someone with HIV. Stop trying to be clever. If you don't believe me, come to the Netherlands and try to adopt.

>>133582654
You do realize we're not all autistic right? Can you relay your thoughts without resorting to some half backed regurgitated ad hominem?

>>133590435
I just don't think a relative having HIV is reason enough to deny an adoption. I think your story is fake.

>>133590509
I have no way to prove it to you, but you could probably find out if you tried. I just think you want it to be fake.

>>133579198
This.

Marriage was never about love. Always about parenthood and legacy.
Homos CANNOT marry. Period.
A law does not change that. It just legalize a pathetic parody.

>>133578283
No such thing as "gay marriage".

Feelings can't have rights. End of the story.

>>133591000
And why should gay people who adopt or hire surrogates be forced to be illegitimate parents?

>>133591041
>feelings can't have rights

I would argue religious beliefs are feelings.

Better bake that cake, bigot.

Gubment shouldn't have any hand in the institute of Marriage in the first place.

>>133591053
Mentally ill degenerates should not be allowed to get close to children.
And if they try, bullet in the head.
Does it answered your idiotic question ?

>>133578283

Since it is not factually established whether it's genetic or developed behavior, or both, by normalizing homosexuality you are risking the youth becoming homosexual when in other environments they would not.

But above only matters if heterosexuality is preferable. Yet, no one has ever presented a serious argument in which homosexuality is preferable over heterosexuality, while many can be presented in favor of heterosexuality.

There you go.

>>133591329
>just shoot people in the head if they disagree with me

Do you honestly expect to be taken seriously?

>>133578283
Homosex should be executed because it's bad image

>>133591438
Answer :
Children are sacred. Filth has no right on them. And any mean is legitimate to protect them.
Homos are threat to their well being.
Ergo...
Kys.

There is religious marriage
and
the contract between two humans called
civil marriage, for which one buys a license to have that contract notarized and held up by the state, like any other contract.

One is not the other. If you are married in the eyes of Cthulhu, your civil license is academic.

If you have a civil license, that entitles you to the many embedded benefits of that contract which cannot be replaced completely by any other contract.

Which marriage is being discussed ITT?

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>>133591103
>belief = sexual arousal

Then again everything equals everything else lin libbie logic. Categories are bigoted and stuff...

>>133591640
>muh gender-neutral legal abstractions

>>133591495
well said based kim flag

>>133591901
>>muh gender-neutral legal abstractions

So contract law. Some people confuse the two.

>>133578752
>life has no purpose
>hurr derp but my subjective view is legit xD

>>133578283
There is no need for it. Why do gays want to get married? The reason for marriage is to cement ties between family's and make sure there is repercussions for cheating so the kids you should be having grow up in a stable home. I mean if gays want to get married fine but whats the point? I think they are just being drama queens as always. "Muh look world I have a disability pay attention to me!"

>>133594146
Are you saying you WANT gays to cheat?

>>133594231
No it is just there in case the person you are with is a piece of shit. A lot of marriages back in the day where arranged.

>>133594231
You guys only want to get married because you like to make a big show about how fucking gay and effeminate you are. I know gay guys who you would never know are gay. Larping as a women has nothing to do with being gay. You should not be aloud to have kids so there is no point in being married.

>>133594553
No, being married is about societal status and tax benefits.

>>133594604
OK fine I guess, but those tax benefits are only there to encourage people to have kids. If you don't have kids you should not get those benefits. Gays should not be aloud to have kids because they need both a male and female to raise them properly.

>>133594146
we need anti-gay laws in the west, this lgbt degeneration and minority victimization has gone too far.

"you're gay? either 5years labor camp or electroshock therapy for you"

>>133594806
Then they should be denied to infertile couples.

>>133578283
It's fucking pointless, like incestuous marriage or child marriage or allowing a man to marry his dog

>>133594820
Feel free to move to Iran.

>>133594839
Infertile couples should still be allowed to adopt.

>>133594820
Nah I think if you still act like a man then you should be OK. I still think we should look into a cure though.

>>133594889
What if they choose not to?

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>>133578283

>>133594839

I agree, but only if the infertile couple dose not adopt.

>>133594925
>16 to 19

>>133594921
Then they get no benefits.

>>133595033
But they currently do and stripping people of rights is difficult, unpopular, and unlikely.

Now that gay marriage exists you are stuck with it.

>>133595081
>But they currently do and stripping people of rights is difficult, unpopular, and unlikely.
no it's not. we do it all the time.

>>133595081
I think it is ludicrous that people get to scam the system because they choose not to have kids or because of their sexuality.

>>133594851
dude, im the majority, you the minority.

how about u stick that pride partying up your butt and stop promoting your shameful behaviour? if someone needs deportation to iran its you degenerate lgbt folks

>>133595081
The west is going down the shitter because people are allowed to scam welfare ect. This is no difference. It has nothing to do with being gay that law was put in place so people would get married and have kids. Gays should not be allowed to have kids (unless they are bi and had kids from a previous marriage and even then the mother/ father should get full custody.).

>>133595206
The majority approves of gay marriage and that number is only increasing.

https://www.thelocal.de/20160128/large-majority-of-germans-for-gay-marriage-marriage

Slightly less than a quarter (24 percent) of respondents remained opposed to same-sex couples being given legal equality.

With 68 percent in favour, support has grown by around 3 percent on this issue since YouGov last conducted the poll less than 12 months ago.

Across the political spectrum, Germans said they wanted to see a change in the law.

A total of 61 percent of voters for Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative Union said they were for legalization, suggesting that the Chancellor’s opposition to gay marriage is now out of step with her own voter base.

Support on the left of German politics was expectedly high. Social Democrat and Die Linke (left party) voters both gave 79 percent approval to same-sex marriage, while 87 percent of Green voters were in favour.

US too:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/210566/support-gay-marriage-edges-new-high.aspx

64% of Americans say same-sex marriage should be legal

For the first time, majority of Protestants support gay marriage

Support for same-sex relations has also climbed, now at 72%

>>133578283
It fundamentally undermines the basis of marriage being the creation, protection, and promulgation of life via the family unit. This is the most basic building block of any society. Men and women unite with each other by necessity to survive (women need providers and men need women to convert their resources into their family via bearing and raising children).
Gay marriage undermines this because it turns marriage into a sort of socially oriented action rather than a more basic and fundamental biological act.
It is a symptom and a potential cause for the downfall of civilization.
There is no defense of gay marriage if there is an objectively effective way to promulgate life.
This isn't so much a defense of biological inclination as much as it is of civilization being a product of certain biological inclinations.
If you want civilization you are against the ideas that predicate and precede gay marriage.

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>>133579757
Evolution doesn't exist but I see what you're saying

>>133595472
No most people in public will state that they do to look like they are virtuous people, but behind closed doors they at least have some reservations about it (this includes gays I know). Gays should get married but should get no benefits from the government for it.

>>133595472
Your victory is our death, and yours. You think you can support your lifestyle without the State or the Community? Can you support yourself at all without them?
Do you think Islam will be sympathetic to you?

You are chipping away at a dam and reveling in the leaks.

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>>133595714
Stay on topic.

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>>133583602

>>133595842
This.

>>133595837
What about gays who adopt or hire surrogates?

>>133595874
see
>>133584723

>>133579757
>>133580544 (non-sequitor)
>>133595714
Don't even need to be an evolutionist to be against it. All you need is to defend civilization. There has never been a single civilization to exist without monogamous heterosexual marriage as its primary building block. There is nothing stronger than the family unit.

>>133595963
No because they need the women to stick around an nurture the kid. In ancient society gays would not have kids period. It is not natural for tow men or two women to raise a child.

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>>133578283

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>>133595994
>No because they need the women to stick around an nurture the kid. In ancient society gays would not have kids period. It is not natural for tow men or two women to raise a child.

It’s no different than a necrophile marrying a corpse.

>>133578283
There really is none, certainly none in this thread that make any sense. I have no problem with them getting married, doesn't affect me what they do in their personal life.

>>133595994
That isn't the same one. And he's posted shot like this before and the article he linked was against what he said. Also you could just not be a retard and gays are way shittier people.

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>>133596133
We are having a real discussion for once GTFO.

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>>133596133

>>133596205
That is definitely the same one.

The study measured how broken families are, not how gay married parents do. It also misclassified many subjects as having been raised by gay people when they were not.

>>133596188
The retarded live and let live approach is one of the main reasons why the west is dead.

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>>133596293
How are you gay if you had a kid with some one else?

>>133596420
Some gays do marry or have kids with women.

Also, bisexuals.

Also, surrogacy.

>>133596293
Gay men larping as women is a social construct, same goes for dikes acting like men. They should not have full custody of the children because it confuses them.

>>133596097
>>133596163
are you drunk fellow canuck?

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>>133596568
Transgender is a straw man. We are not discussing them.

>>133596569
No I just woke up kek.

>>133596357
Can you give an example of why?

>>133596507
Well you have already agreed that broken homes are bad for kids period. So if bi daddy leaves mommy for a dude its is going to be just as bad or worse than him leaving the mother for another women. Surrogacy look after the kids growing up?

https://youtu.be/jjPQ_jVlEnQ

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>>133596188
It does affect you, as I assume you consider yourself a member of society. The LGBT agenda is an extension of post modernism. It's all about subverting traditional values and spreading degeneracy. It may once have been a rights issue, but that day has long past, much like feminism and its original goals. Video related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7T6qU16fT4

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>>133596753
READ THE WHOLE FUCKING THREAD OR GTFO!!!!!!!!!! KEK

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>>133596753
trannies being accept
pedos being more accepted

>>133596779
That's why equal marriage is so necessary to prevent us from feeling forced into entering unhappy heterosexual marriages.

Surrogacy means a gay couple hires a woman to get pregnant with a donor egg and one of their sperm.

>>133578283
because the original purpose of marriage was codification of a religious practice, if you take the religious aspect out of it the substance of the institution is gone and you're left with pointless formalities.

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>>133596881
or you could just not get marreid ir have a kid

>>133596972
this

Ephesians 5
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

>>133578283
Pedophilia and child development.

>>133596753
It’s the core value of Liberalism. You can justify necrophilia with it btw.

>>133578283
Faggotry is disgusting. Disgust is the way how nature tells us what's wrong and what's right.

>>133596881
Yeah but you need the women to hang around and help raise the kid or they will be fucked in the head. Gays should not have kids, its not natural.Gays did not have kids before technology so its not how we evolved. The kids feelings should come before yours, your an adult.

A smart nigger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrD8zvCUtWc

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>>133597041
>or they will be fucked in the head

If you support faggotry let alone faggot marriage don’t even pretend that you are right-wing/conservative.

>>133597028
you missed the point you fucking kike worshipper, go lick some rapefugees foot bitch

>>133597088
His daughter is a lesbian.

>>133597113
I don't need to cite this how did gays have kids before technology? In nature both a women and a man raise the child.

>>133578283
AIDs

>>133597167
So?

>>133597186
You need to cite that kids need parents of opposite genders or they will be mentally abnormal or whatever your claim is.

>>133597237
see: >>133595874

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>>133578283
It will raise the cost of Healthcare, due to all the visits to proctologists after 20 years of bored desperate buggery reduce every married Faggot's colon to a loose Weeping jellyfish donut that they are forced to carry around in a backwards jockstrap with a zip lock bag in it for a liner.

>>133597306
And I already explained that that study has been debunked.

The patterns from these reanalyses offer evidence of the fragility of these conclusions—so fragile, in fact, that they are due primarily to the methodological choices made by Regnerus. Or to put it another way, when equally plausible and, in our view, preferred methodological decisions are used, a different conclusion emerges: adult children who lived with same-sex parents show comparable outcome profiles to those from other family types, including intact biological families. That this revised conclusion is consistent with those reported in most previous studies and inconsistent with Regnerus’s findings illustrates how the accumulation of research decisions throughout the research endeavor—and, in particular, measurement decisions that overlook inconsistent information within the data—may lead to questionable conclusions, even with a population-based large sample.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/10/new-criticism-of-regnerus-study-on-parenting-study/

He massaged numbers till they fit his desired conclusions.

>>133596881
You've been liberated from the pussy jew and you want to be tied down to somebody? You're a retard.

>>133597472
I would like to have kids in the context of marriage and most would like to be allowed that right if they so choose.

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>>133597113
because they'll molest them

but hey maybe they'll become the new richard dawkins that you jerk over

>>133597538
Again, citation needed.

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>>133597145
>go lick refugee feet
im not catholic

>>133597508
the kids are going to be fine without you, somebody else will adopt them, you're not even fulfilling the biological imperative yet you're taking all the downsides

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>>133578283
I don't think I need to comment on this.

>>133597199
That's also why surrogate mother stuff should be illegal

>>133597437
Liberals will "debunk" any scientific evidence that disputes their utopian views. You can find peer reviewed articles that "debunk" basic concepts of our biology pertaining to race and gender. I'm not saying that study is perfect, but to suggest that the data is entirely fabricated, and not based on reality in any way whatsoever, is an extraordinary claim that I simply do not believe.

>>133597437
>washingtompost
Reddit is to the left

>>133597599
I wanna know how the jews can look at this and not decide to backtrack on everything they've done. It's one thing to be degenerate enough to do this, but to be the one that caused it and allows it to continue? How could a human do this?

>>133597576
check the thread i posted the pic earlier

and a great portion of lgbbq people were molested or raped

>>133583090
What about fags who adopt kids?

>>133597830
Read the whole thread.

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Romans 1

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

>>133596827
Sure, post modernism and it's social justice counterparts are problems in society.

But you're equating a gay couple who want to get married with an entre post modernist agenda, and those 2 things aren't the same thing. There's plenty of people who are simply gay, want to get married because they love their partner. Those people may even hold otherwise very traditional views.

>>133596832
I have.

>>133596851
Is there any evidence that the acceptance of gay marriage leads of more acceptance of trannies or pedos?

Again like the above poster, you're equating individual gay people getting married for their own personal reason,with an agenda of SJWs/post modernists.

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>>133597769
Also don't forget that these disgusting faggots target children.
>pic related

Because there's no logical need for it.

The entire point of Government being involved in religion is to relegate married couples to a separate tax bracket. This should really only be used to incentivize having kids, so that a) there's a next generation and b) There's tax benefits to having kids inside a marriage.

Poverty is linked to single parents, economic mobility is higher among kids with 2 parents. This trend exists regardless of race, religion or culture.

Therefore there's a logical reason for the government to support marriage, but no logical one to support same-sex marriage as they cannot have children.

Anything else is just muh feels > reals

That said I'm a libertarian and think the government should fuck off so I really don't care what happens either way.

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>>133597965
Wrong pic meant to post pic related. But fags do fornicate like crazy which is another reason they should be put down

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Marriage is an a church institute, therefore should not be accessable for gays and lesbians (as they are prohibited to marry by holy scriptures, thus by should by any christian church)
Otherwise it loses it's value, you shithole niggers

>>133597987
>There's plenty of people who are simply gay, want to get married because they love their partner. Those people may even hold otherwise very traditional views.
Are there? 75% of gay men admit to cheating. Monogamy and commitment are alien concepts to the vast majority of gay people and most of them do not get married (I live in Toronto where gay marriage has been legal for over a decade). This is one of those situations where we're changing the very fabric of our society in ways that we can't even predict, just to account for the <1% of the population who it would truly benefit, which is completely irrational.

You can say it's "just" about rights all you want, but it's not. You can't separate the stated goal from the overarching societal consequences, many of which we can already observe.

>>133597987
>there any evidence that the acceptance of gay marriage leads of more acceptance of trannies or pedos?
It's called not being a retard and have been paying attention to the west since obama got into office

>>133578283
You can't reproduce

I know most people don't like Dennis Prager but he is right on this issue, the culture isn't ready.
When gay marriage becomes legal it sends the message that gender doesn't matter in marriage, which is a somewhat fine statement.
The problem is that due to the LGBTTTQQIAA being a leftist echo chamber that pushes propaganda about "gender not mattering" WITHOUT using the distinction "in marriage", so to most people it would mean that gender doesn't matter at all.
From a legal point of view I totally understand, but we shouldn't legalize gay marriage yet, not with the Post Modernists still being around.

>>133598221
Gay couples can have surrogate children or adopt.

But I'm the same, I'm a libertarian, I think the more government meddles in the family unit, the more damage it does in general. We're in this mess not because the evil gays want to get married, we're in this mess because the only way government can solve social problems is through force and coercion which is what leads to this whole mess.

>>133596357
The live and let live approach mixed with Post Modernism is why The West is dying. The live and let live approach wasn't made to encourage behaviours that stray from the cultural norm, that's what Post Modernism does.

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Fuck faggot mother fuckers. When the Muslims conquer the west, I will convert from atheist and help them kill you all. I will pretend to believe in a fairy just so I can kill every last fucking last one of them. I will relish hanging jews as well.

Gays and leftist loves muslims, I agree, let them in. They will help us kill them. They must be eradicated like the rats they are.

>>133597690
Read the actual study. He asked people if their parents had a gay relationship. He got about 250 yes votes. He also asked if they actually lived with their gay or lesbian parents. He got 80 no votes out of that 250. Meaning 1/3 of his dataset is invalid.

>>133599972
Hey kid, feel free to go to Raqqa right now

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Flights-g1652373-Ar_Raqqah_Ar_Raqqah_Governorate-Cheap_Discount_Airfares.html

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>>133597508
Why should society allow it tho? The LGBT movement has always been anti-establiment, anti-christian, anti-family, marxist, and even pedophilic since it's inception in the early 70s. The only thing that changed was the open support of the pederasty b/c of all the negative publicity it gave them. What efforts have the LBGT community made to distance themselves from the degeneracy that has plagued their community since it's very beginning in order to prove to society that they are as decent as heterosexual couples? They still lead in mental illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, STDs, and have done little to change their degenerate hookup culture. It is no coincidence that heterosexual marriages started taking a nosedive during the same time that cultural marxist movements like gay rights and feminism began their rise in the public conciseness. And what happened when homosexuals were allowed to force their re-definition of marriage onto the majority of the public that disagreed with them (using judicial trickery and maneuvering on the part of Obama stacking courts with activist leftist judges)? Did the majority of homosexuals suddenly change their ways, abandon Grindr and pride parades and commit to longterm monogamous relationships in order to become a stable backbone of the society? Or did they continue on their same old path of marxist destruction of the society that they are in by using the newly legalities of "Gay Marriage" to attack christians and the very basic pillars of society once again?

>>133600138
Read Obergefell vs. Hodges opinion for yourself if you really care.

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>>133600043

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>>133600073


Why would I need to do that, I could just come to your country? It is close to being overrun with muslims. In 20 years you will not recognize your own country. Muslim will conquer your country, because you are a weak fuck who wont stop it.

>>133600194
your group is still a net negative on society regardless of the SC getting it wrong and activists only being able to push it through the courts when they had judges stacked in their favor.

>>133598300
>Are there?
Yes.
>75% of gay men admit to cheating. Monogamy and commitment are alien concepts to the vast majority of gay people
I'm just going to assume this is true for a second, and ignore the obvious problem of the massive amount of heterosexual cheating. And instead ask, So what?

How gay people behave is different to how the rest of hetro society behaves because they're in a unique biological position. Gay men are more promiscuous for example, because men have high levels of testosterone which makes them seek sexual activity, and in hetro relationships that promiscuity to a large degree is curbed by females limiting access to sex.

Where's the evidence that how gay people behave is in any way a detriment to normal hertro couples. So what if gay people are having lots of sex and cheat a lot, that's their business, not yours.

I don't really get why it's considered "changing the fabric of our society", you talk about consequences, just give one and tell me how it's causally related to allowing gay people to have relationships and marry.

>>133598317
>It's called not being a retard and have been paying attention to the west since obama got into office

I don't think we disagree on the observation, I'm asking what this has to do with gay people marrying?

Some of you have real problems with the causal relationship of most of this stuff. You need to stop and actually think for a moment, what is caused by who, and why. Social problems are typically complex and multi faceted, so to do something like blame gay people is just a cop out.

>>133600408
A majority of states (36) already issued gay marriage licenses prior to the decision. They were merely codifying the opinion of the majority of the American people as well as the majority of American states.

>>133578283
Gays are the most promiscuous subgroup of people in any and all countries. Most of aids carriers are gays and, in america and every place where they are numerous, niggers.
Niggers are eligible to marry yet most of nigglets grow up in single parent households. In reality marriage doesnt matter its just whatever the fuck you feel like today. You think when these ultra faggots that attend parades and gay orgies are gonna stop spreading disease once theyre married? Fuck no.
However they should never, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever, be given the option to adopt, lesbians as well, it is incredibly important for a child to have both male and female parents.

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Kill all gays.

>>133600366
At least it won't become america. Muslims are like gods compared to americans.

>>133600499
the majority of American people were against redefining Marriage.

The fact that the law has been used to attack christians immediately after just shows how disingenuous and dishonest gay marriage activists actually are.

>>133600788
Nope, at the time of the decision public opinion was in favor of allowing gay marriage.

Public attitudes toward such unions have undergone a remarkable change as well. A recent Washington Post-ABC poll showed a record 61 percent of Americans say they support same-sex marriage. The acceptance is driven by higher margins among the young.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-will-hear-historic-arguments-in-gay-marriage-cases/2015/04/27/083d9302-ed24-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

>>133600788
If anything Christians have attacked gays since the decision by attempting to pass anti-gay laws in some Southern and Midwestern states under the guise of religious freedom.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/22/mississippi-anti-lgbt-law-hb-1523-bible-446297.html

https://www.rt.com/usa/266686-michigan-anti-gay-adoption-law/

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>>133601091
>article by (((Kurt Eichenwald)))

>christians having to create laws to in order to have their day in court = attacking gays
Just more proof that the LGBT movement is nothing but lies and marxist trickery trying to destroy society.

>>133601719
Here, have another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/04/05/mississippi-governor-signs-law-allowing-business-to-refuse-service-to-gay-people/

>>133601851
eh, not wasting my time or giving any out anymore clicks to jewish trickery. But pls keep thinking you have the will of the people behind you and we are powerless.

>>133600929
>((Washington Post))

Are these the same polls which predicted a Clinton win?

But to answer OP, homosexuals are more lilely to have STDs, be the perpetrator or victim of domestic abuse, and to have mental illness.

The government has an intererst in banning both gay marriage and sodomy in order to keep medical costs down and to protect public health.

>>133602203
Aw cmon you didn't even mention the Jewish author.

Marriage is pointless, it's a legal contract which costs a shit ton of money and if your girl decides to fuck a black dude you lose your house, a shit ton of your earnings and a big chunk of your pension.

>>133600676
>Niggers are eligible to marry yet most of nigglets grow up in single parent households.
This didn't used to be the case, prior to the Great Society movement. The left has thoroughly destroyed the black family beginning in the 30s but it went into high gear starting in the 60s.

>>133579195
Nothing wrong with pedophilia as long as you ain't hurting the kids.

I mean actually physically hurting them , not that "mental/emotional abuse" nonsense. People who say that kind of shit usually have no idea what they're talking about. It's like religious people who fear what they don't understand and think everyone should look and behave exactly like them otherwise the world ain't right and needs fixing.

Fuck off , that's just your opinion.

Only real argument against the non-rapey kind of pedophilia is that you think it's creepy and want no part of it.

Fine if that's the case , but live and let live. I mean , it's not like the kids aren't enjoying themselves most of the time , little pervs.