How is intelligent design not true?

It's not not true. Amen.

>>133493782
>I'm too stupid to comprehend the nature of reality so I'll believe in a fairy tale that offers no concrete explanation whatsoever
y tho

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>>133493782
Why does the bottom one have the shape of Poland?

>>133493782
I predict this thread will be filled with anons that don't even know the claims ID people make. Most of them believe in evolution, they just contend that there are limits to what it can do (often for probabilistic and time constrained reasons).

>>133493782
I don't think you can consider the creation of various pests and diseases very intelligent. Also the fact that genitals and your anus are so close, that's not intelligent either. But sure, believe what you want, it's none of my concerns.

>It just happened bro
>What do you mean what made it happen, it just did

>>133493993
>a fairy tale that offers no concrete explanation

Unlike evolution, am I right?

lmfao

>>133493782
it dosnt have a theory, it is not even wrong

>>133494739
>He thinks billions of years of pressures to survive and reproduce over changing environments is something that "just happens"
And yet these mouth breathers are also the ones that claim black people evolved into another species
Really gets that noggin joggin

>>133494775
Do you understand what DNA is? Do you understand what a mutation is? Do you understand that livings things reproduce by copying their mutated DNA?

I don't understand why you think this is made up. It's all there, the pattern is blindingly obvious. Furthermore, it's available for anyone to look at using genome browsers like the ones here: https://genome.ucsc.edu/.

So are you trolling (LOL I WASN'T REALLY A RETARD JUST TENDING) or are you stupid?

>>133494516
>implying ID denies genetic degradation
>implying physical bodies don't face engineering optimization constraints

>>133495073
>implying they didn't
Name the most common ancestor of all races

>>133495081
>There was no life and then suddenly life just appeared.

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>>133493782
Looks like a benis!

Because its entirely feasible for RNA to form on its own given the right conditions.

creationists are a special kind of retarded
the origin of life might be an uncertainty but evolution is a fact of life

>>133495081
"If ENCODE is right, then Darwinism is wrong."
Who said it anon?

>>133495081

Oh boy, a barrage of assumptions about my character and naked abuse. Am I supposed to be convinced by this garbage?

Why can't atheists just explain how evolution actually works, rather than relying on shame and screeching?

>>133494775
> "Evolution makes no sense"
> "Ooh, look, a Dog"
> Doesn't get the irony

>>133495081
"If ENCODE is right, then darwinism is wrong."
And guess what, ENCODE is right.

It's true, but it's a wishy-washy solution for folks that are too scared to say, "God created life". There was an intelligence, and it was God, Jehovah to be exact.

>>133495379
Because you're too much of a willfully dumb nigger to bother with

>>133495379
Evolution is pretty intuitive and straightforward. Furthermore, evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive. Both can in fact be true aspects of nature.

>>133495444
>implying ID denies genetic degradation

>>133495484
>Life is too complex to spontaneously form, therefore the Bible is the word of god.
Why do Christians push this logic?

>>133493782
if it is, then the designer is a retard
>I know, I'm gonna make humans eat and breath through the same canal... what could go wrong

>>133493782
It presupposes a form of theism or deism which causes butthurt.

It also depends on how you interpret "intelligent design" since it can be so varied. I've seen it used from everything from theistic evolution to creationism. Which one are you thinking of?

>>133495379
Natural selection means the individual which has traits which give it the biggest sexual advantage in reproduction influences the population over time to a point which the species has evolved into an entirely new one due to genetic differences between the original population and the new one.

>>133493782
>1 post by this id

>>133495081

Are you aware the worlds most famous biologist/geneticist that runs Hardvard's Gentics/Biomemtics department believes in ID?

He's the first person on earth to create synthetic life as well. George Church. He even went as far as to endorse Stephen Meyer who runs the Discovery group.


Oh and George Church also owns 23&me.

http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/bizarre-endorsements-of-meyers-intelligent-design-book/

So who's the retard now. Literally the world's most acclaimed scientist believes it -- why don't you -- are you just to intelligent?

And by the way technically speaking it's sort of a science, their first major breakthrough was the discovery of the processes of junk DNA, and then epigentics.

>>133495646
>implying physical body plans don't face engineering optimization constraints

>>133495266
>science doesn't have an answer to a question
>hahahah lmao scientists are so retarded how do they not know Jesus did it? XDDD

>>133495484
But why was there a god? When did he begin existing? Did he go through a life cycle similar to all creatures? Did the universe exist at that time (without matter of course), or was he roaming around in nothing? What made him create all this? When did he create it? What makes you think Jehovah is that god, and not some other deity?

>>133495727
Who cares? He works with genes, not a field of evolutionary study. A single biologist in one specialized field that has nothing to do with evolution means nothing.

>>133493782
irreductible complexity was btfo in the 1980s.

christcucks have 0 arguments that weren't handedly destroyed in the 1970s and 1980s and rely on the public's ignorance to prepetuate their myths

>>133495081

And here's another video where he calls evolution scientist more religious than religious people.

http://bigthink.com/videos/are-science-and-religion-compatible-2

>>133495798
>He believes in a creator therefore he believes the Bible is word of God
Why do atheists push this?

>>133495524
>>133495550
>>133495686

Please answer the question I actually posed, rather than inventing some stupid shit to get angry about:

>>133495379
>Why can't atheists just explain how evolution actually works

>>133495937

Than why is it the worlds most prominent scientist George Church pushing it? Are you aware of the people that push it, and their place in this world. Evolution is the poor mans religion. Quite literally. WE WUZ MUD N SHEEIT.

>>133495937
>irreducible complexity was btfo in the 1980s.
Elaborate please

>>133495766
so god, an omnipotent and omniscient being, designed the sigmoidal curve or my lower back? god is a shitty engineer

>>133495821
>when did god begin existing
nice fedora-tier argument, read some philosophy of god before you use an argument dawkins would use

>>133495996
I'm sorry I thought you wanted someone to tell you what evolution is.

>>133495638
You have the order backwards. It should be, "I believe the bible is true, therefore I believe the explanation of lifes origins as put forth in the bible."

Faith comes first, then the bible account clicks.

>>133495266
Intelligent design is about the creation of life and not the design of it? So why isn't it called Intelligent abiogenesis?

>>133495314
>>133495450
No idea. What is that quote trying to imply? What do you mean by ENCODE being "right"? It's a genomics project, it spits out data, it's not "right" or "wrong" because it's basic research.

>>133495379
I just told you how it works. What is wrong with you???

>>133495727
>>133495955
Who the fuck cares what one person thinks? That's not how science works.

>>133496060
if you want relatively easy reads then go read the blind watchmaker and unweaving the rainbow

the primary arguments for irreductible complexity were the eye and the bacterial flagellum but they were btfo'd by finding intermediaries in nature

>>133495727
>believes

Wow. A scientist believes something.

Not that same as having proven the belief, but since he's a scientist, that's good enough.

>>133493782
Wisdom teeth, the appendix, the backwards orientation of your eyes photoreceptors, junk DNA, cancer, autoimmune disease. All of it speaks of a flawed, patchwork made through random and conflicting selection pressures over a long period of time that is only semi-functional through trial and error. Nothing pre-planned, nothing indicating a set design.

>>133495996

>Why can't atheists just explain how evolution actually works

Well to be fair there really isn't much of an explanation it's a series of inferrences. In reality evolution started off as a way to make people scientifically racist as to go over the moral evaluation - have you ever seen the book from the scopes trial by chance? It makes Mein Kamp feel like a Jane Austen novel by comparison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_Biology

Here's my favorite chapter...... Parasitism and its Cost to Society. – Hundreds of families such as those described above exist today, spreading disease, immorality, and crime to all parts of this country. The cost to society of such families is very severe. Just as certain animals or plants become parasitic on other plants or animals, these families have become parasitic on society. They not only do harm to others by corrupting, stealing, or spreading disease, but they are actually protected and cared for by the state out of public money. Largely for them the poorhouse and the asylum exist. They take from society, but they give nothing in return. They are true parasites.

>>133496051
>Than why is it the worlds most prominent scientist George Church pushing it?
appeal to authority

>Are you aware of the people that push it, and their place in this world.
bandwagon

>Evolution is the poor mans religion.
false analogy

>WE WUZ MUD N SHEEIT.
strawman

do you only speak in logical fallacies?

>>133496136
The context to ENCODE is regarding junk DNA, which was believed to exist but was found that it probably doesn't exist at all.

>>133494235
must suck to live in lesser Poland.

>>133495646
Initial life was perfect, but we've devolved. Are we not men? Seriously, through entropy, the DNA is becoming more and more corrupt.

>>133496173
Thanks, I'll give it a look

>>133496083
The concept of God's beginning is a valid philosophical argument. Calling it fedora tier because you can't answer it is just childish

>>133496083
>nice fedora-tier argument
so you aren't even gonna try explaining? come on man, you people claim to be all sorts of enlightened ad superior to non-believers, so why not enlighten me as well?

>>133496205
>junk DNA
remove this from your list please. many uses for "junk" DNA have been found already. one of which includes modulation of the physical space between genes which changes the physical conformation of DNA which has epigenetic effects

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>>133495963
aliens created us

it doesn't make us divine

also, then who created the aliens? HMMMM?

because muh billions and billions of years

>>133495081
You're explaining what DNA is, but not proving ID is wrong.

>>133494516
>implying having your buthole fingered and taint licked isn't god's plan

>>133496261
Junk DNA is worthless DNA. They found that the DNA they thought was worthless isn't, so they stopped calling it Junk DNA. They figured out the function of something they didn't understand before, that's called science.

I don't understand your argument at all.

>>133496272
>Seriously, through entropy, the DNA is becoming more and more corrupt
Nice Freshmen Philosophy student statement.

>>133496201

>Not that same as having proven the belief, but since he's a scientist, that's good enough.

This is like saying Niels Bohr was just another physicist - this is the ONLY man on earth to have created life that wasn't created by itself or god.

If that is just a scientist, than I'm just Jesus. Pardon me.

Seriously google him. He's literally the number 1 biologist professor in the world. He's the first biologist to teach biomemetics.

>>133496407
>because muh billions and billions of years
this but unironically. the human mind is completely unable to imagine even 1000 years let alone 6 orders of magnitude above that

>>133496205
>appendix
used by immune system

>backwards eyes
optimizes trade off between blind spots and acuity (blood flow)

>junk DNA
doesn't really exist, see ENCODE

>cancer, disease
>implying ID denies genetic degradation

>>133496205

Junk DNA is a complete hoax. Good lord that was debunk over a decade ago after the completion of the human genome. Did you go to uni in the 1920's?

>>133496272
>Seriously, through entropy, the DNA is becoming more and more corrupt.
... but energy is being added to the system that DNA is a part of. Have you taken thermodynamics, genetics, physical chemistry, or molecular biology?

>>133496443
Because it's impossible to prove wrong. And impossible to prove right. Because it's not a theory that explains anything, it's a theory that's not even falsifiable.

I was a hip atheist until I took doctoral level histology, embryology and physiology. I garner that the overwhelming percentage of humans have no clue the scale, both small and big, of our inner workings, how intricate they are, how "automated" they are, ect. It gets to a point where, like the size of the universe or astronomical scales, our brains biologically really can't comprehend it.

Laws of physics will force anything that doesn't work to just not work.

I'm not sure what is so fucking hard to understand about it.

All matter is being subjected to tests at every moment of every second.

It inst' so much that the universe has 1 chance at 1 moment at the very beginning to come up with life that then evolves and spreads, but that each interval of time produces a new universe arrangement with new chances.

Anytime somebody says "lul probability says it can't happen" just remember that each planck length of time produces an entirely new universe. When you can fully understand that implication, you will see why probabilities shoot up to near 100% for even a random brain being spontaneously forming from quantum fluctuations in the middle of nothing. If you are interested in this phenomena, look up a Boltzmann brain.

>>133496446
hmm, maybe that's what god's been up to these past 2000 years or so...

>>133496269
People from Greater Poland must make fun of those rubes.

We are actually a 5-D beings 3-D antfarm.

>>133496624
>it's a theory
it's a hypothesis, not a theory. a theory must be supported by falsifiable evidence and intelligent design has 0 evidence

>>133496362
I'm not talking about regulatory sequences. There are introns clearly produced through duplication and mutation of working genes that serve no functional role.

>>133496747
>that serve no functional role.
this is incorrect. the mutation and shuffling of introns will change the levels of expression in some gene(s). they may also serve a function of producing novel genes or regulatory regions.

>>133496745
Whatever you want to call it. It doesn't explain anything.

>>133496747
Actually some introns do serve functional roles. Some can be processed into miRNAs and such.

>>133493782
How is such a mess intelligently designed?

Miracles are inherently non-verifiable, and it is impossible to determine if the inexplicable is simply without adequate explanation or genuinely supernatural.

That is not to say that miracles do not exist, but simply that they are not unreliable. If God created reality, it is in our best interests to discover and repeat his methods.

>>133496901
>Some can be processed into miRNAs and such.
this too. RNAi is still a relatively new field of study

>>133496269
>>133496724
Krakow is beautiful.

>>133496252

>appeal to authority

Doesn't make it wrong, I'm just saying that if you want to talk about what "smart" people believe than you're dead wrong.

As for an appeal to authority -- THATS THE VERY THING YOU DID. And why I responded. But I digress.

>do you only speak in logical fallacies?

I speak only in what I believe. I think you're being an awfully bit too defensive - would you like to debate the reasons for ID and the actual biological process that cause for the question to arise?

Let's start....

Can you name a single process in which to create adequate enantiomers for a basis of gene production that can also conversely code for DNA without an outside hand?

In fact can you name a single point at anywhere in our reality where intelligence has been created without an outside force?

IF you cant - than what makes you so sure of abiogenesis?

>>133495996
I'm not an atheist faggot, I'm not a Christian either. We live in a simulation. The creators created this simulation to deduce what genetic traits are optimal for survival in various environments, furthermore the simulation of intelligent life involves memetics and which ideas are best suited for a given environment.

>>133496971
I'm glad we can be excited about reality in a thread about fantasy.

>>133496458
The point is that scientists used junk DNA as evidence for blind evolution for decades. One even said that if there is no junk DNA, then evolution is wrong. Now that we know there's no such thing as junk DNA, it's still magically evidence for blind evolution.

So the pattern isn't blindingly obvious because they get it wrong all the time, and move the goalposts because blind evolution has to be true.

>>133496242
>Well to be fair there really isn't much of an explanation it's a series of inferrences.

Bingo.

Atheists can't explain evolution because there is nothing to explain. It's just an idea that makes sense in lieu of something better. There is no mechanism they can point to or predictions they can make with "the theory of evolution". It's as useful as saying that the universe began with a big bang, or that global warming is caused by humans. There is no connection between the claims they make and what they are actually capable of demonstrating.

But most atheistfags can't grasp this, because the vast majority of them are of subnormal intelligence and have taken on this "evolution" thing as some sort of spiritual crusade. It really would be best if these people stopped embarrassing themselves and simply went to back to church.

>>133493782
Prove the existence of the intelligent creator.

Oh wait, you can't. Just saying "shit is hard to understand, therefore god did it." is just another religious fag cop-out.

>>133496692

Mud creates a 4 dimensional coding language, and a biological technology that is 1000's of years past sentient beings with modern technology.

Pass the bong bro.

>>133497119
nice strawman

>>133496933
It clearly isn't. They are beautiful structures, but so very far from being functionally perfect.

>>133495963
Autism or pigeonholing like a leftist I guess.

>>133496370
Aliens cannot be compared to God.

>>133497073
So you're saying that one person was wrong about junk DNA and its role in evolution, so the entire theory is debunked?

>>133496745

Yes, it is a hypothesis, and what do we know about dealing with multiple hypothesis from Bio 101? The one with the least amount of assumptions, is almost always right.

>>133496083
You have no way of knowing if whether God has his own God, much like we cannot know if our creators are in a simulation themselves.

>>133497228
No, I'm saying you can't use "just look at DNA, it's obvious that evolution is true" as an argument.

ID people don't deny that evolution is true, they just dispute its limits.

>>133497014
>Can you name a single process in which to create adequate enantiomers for a basis of gene production that can also conversely code for DNA without an outside hand?
begging the question.
unnecessary buzzwords
irrelevant and incorrect use of technical jargon

3 fallacies in one sentence. you do only speak in fallacies

>>133497045
I agree. I'm a biomedical researcher and I do some genetics work and RNAi is cool shit.

>>133497015

So in other words you don't believe in god, just a "creator" programmer. Essentially a secular god, that doesn't pass judgement. Clever.

>>133497014
>Can you name a single process in which to create adequate enantiomers for a basis of gene production that can also conversely code for DNA without an outside hand?
>In fact can you name a single point at anywhere in our reality where intelligence has been created without an outside force?
>IF you cant - than what makes you so sure of abiogenesis?
Why do you assume that the person you're replying to knows everything in the universe? How could you expect them to explain a process if they simply don't know about it? What if we haven't even discovered the process?

Do you think that knowledge doesn't get discovered on daily basis? What is medicine then?


>>133497073
They were wrong in the past. They did more research and figured out that they were wrong. They updated their theory and now, they are more correct than they were before. You're calling that a failure? That's the whole thing, that's science. Is this literally the "Science is a LIAR; sometimes" sketch from IASIP?

Look at one organism. Look at the next. Compare their DNA, and the truth will be right there, plain and simple. We are all related, every living thing, and evolution explains how.

>>133493782
looks gay

so much for intelligenc lmao, fag

>>133497338
oh wow you're so smart you just refuted millennia of philosophy

>>133493782
you underestimate nature, simply as that. The moment your mind can't comprehend things you simply use "God" as the answer that Trumps everything.

sad.

Very telling of one's intelligence.

>>133497208
you can't prove that god created us

it's just as feasible that aliens created us

The logos designed this?

>>133495266
>When Scientists put this forward as their best theory it is absurd
>When Christians put this forward as the objective truth it is obvious
Really makes me think

>>133497441
>Why do you assume that the person you're replying to knows everything in the universe? How could you expect them to explain a process if they simply don't know about it? What if we haven't even discovered the process?
I have read his question at least 10 times and it means nothing. It's a trash question meant to confuse and obfuscate and to appeal to the scientifically illiterate "wow look at all thems big words." I'm a biomedical researcher and I do genetics work and I've had a passing interest in evolutionary biology/genetics and read about that stuff in my free time and how he worded that question is so slimy and confusing.

>>133497139
>Haha you had an informative post and almost made me have to use google but did you know you smoke marijuana?

>Better luck next time!

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>>133497139
One would think that a self-selecting and mutating thing would get pretty complex in 3 billion years.

The thing you call ''mud'' is organic molecules. Provided there is the right conditions, materials, external energy, luck, and a lot of time, I don't consider it a miracle that at some point it the molecules gathered in a self-replicating way.

>>133497547
I'd go so far as to say that the alien theory is even more plausible than the god theory.

>>133497701
this is true lmao

>>133497380

>ID people don't deny that evolution is true, they just dispute its limits.

No, they completely deny macro evolution - IE wholesale of species evolving into a new species. There arguments for this is despite the fossil record being as complete as it is there has never been a single transitional fossil ever found - not 1. Not a single trace of 1.

The argument against this usually is bacteria/virus evolution - but they never really actually create new species - just variations within their own genome.

This is actually a paradox of thermodynamics - anyone that is claiming their is evoltion has to answer a major question: which is that if you look at biology like any other closed system in order for a system to evolve their must be more energy input in the case of evolution where is that extra energy coming from. Each step would require more and more. In other words we should be devolving, not evolving.

>>133497208
If I wanted to set up a chain of events.

>God creates universe and divine species.
>Divine species desire to understand the entirety of God's will.
>To do this they create simulations of their universe and all the variations that could come about from it.
>Simulation 3275491024729472893723823: Ape like creatures attain sapience on a planet they call "Earth"

>>133495444
>oh look!
>something influence by something intelegent

>>133494775
the only reason you can eat food the way we produce it is because evolution exists.

>>133497539

At least we get it. Glad we live in the best country of Europe.

>>133493782
>intelligent design
>use same pipe for air intake and for food intake
That's some godlike intelligence right there.

>>133497441
Can you read? I'm not calling that a failure. I'm saying you can't use "it's obvious" as an argument.

And once again, ID does not deny evolution in general or common ancestry in particular.

>>133496525
>Used by immune system
Hardly. We can't even eat raw meat because of how limited its function is.

>optimizes trade off between blind spots and acuity (blood flow)
Optimizes my ass, all I'm hearing is that "God loves squids more than humans", considering their vision is just as acute yet they have no blind spots.

>doesn't really exist, see ENCODE
Genes are rife with genetic errors and non-functional duplications. It's far from 90% estimates, but they still exist and code for useless proteins.

Also, way to ignore wisdom teeth entirely.

>>133494739
>thinks simple life is too complex to exist on its own
>thinks an all powerful, all knowing being created the universe and magically just always existed

>>133497441

>Why do you assume that the person you're replying to knows everything in the universe? How could you expect them to explain a process if they simply don't know about it? What if we haven't even discovered the process?

Well, I assumed the way your swung your beliefs around you knew what the fuck you were talking about. I guess you're just faithful than that you hope you're right?

>Do you think that knowledge doesn't get discovered on daily basis? What is medicine then?

What I asked you was a simple egg, and chicken analogy - you cannot create something from nothing. Energy has to come from the outside.

>>133497380
Are you making strawmen here? Anyways "blind evolution" doesn't work due to the simple fact that natural selection plays a major role in evolution. The environment for the most part shapes the path of speciation and evolution for populations. If you're ID in the way that you dispute abiogenisis then I don't see your points here aside from mentioning past mistakes.

>>133497547
Alien-creation theory is a possibility, I understand. Weak but, eh.

>you can't prove God
We can reasonably infer God as a likelihood if you actually bother to do some effort into reading into it. There are plenty of resources on it. You just have to, well, put the effort in.

A lot of people won't because they don't want to be wrong; others don't want to feel as though they're accountable for their actions.
Aliens don't oppose God though.

>>133497761
Would still involve God.

>>133493782

Intelligent design is true. Dr. Peter Gariaev is a Russian scientist who took eggs that were laid by a frog and then zapped those eggs with a laser light that had gone through eggs laid by a salamander. When the 'frog' eggs hatched, salamanders emerged from them - not frogs. The only thing that is necessary to rewrite DNA is wave information, which means that evolution can occur not through millions of years but instantaneously.

The agricultural division of the Ciba-Geigy corporation (now Sygenta) discovered that existing plant seeds could be transformed into extinct varieties, simply by zapping them with a weak electrostatic current. This process generated stronger and faster-growing wheat, extinct fern species, and tulips with thorns. Italian scientist Pier Luigi Ighina energetically transformed a living apricot tree into an apple tree, actually causing the fruits on the branches to metamorphose from apricots into apples in only sixteen days. Ighina also zapped a rat with DNA-wave information from a cat, and this caused the rat to grow a cat-like tail in four days.

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>it's complicated
>there for it must be magic

I literally have no words to describe how stupid this is.

>>133497756
>No, they completely deny macro evolution
No they don't. I personally know several of the big names in the ID movement. It's not as black and white as anons would like.

>>133497665
No you didn't have an informative post. You had a post that is regurgitated propaganda from freshman biology in high school. Informative would imply you've added something new to the conversation.

>>133497756
>there has never been a single transitional fossil ever found - not 1. Not a single trace of 1.
you're so wrong here it hurts. there are transitional fossils everywhere. you're just outright lying here to try to win an argument

>This is actually a paradox of thermodynamics - anyone that is claiming their is evoltion has to answer a major question: which is that if you look at biology like any other closed system in order for a system to evolve their must be more energy input in the case of evolution where is that extra energy coming from
WHAT IS THE SUN

jesus christ you're stupid

>>133493782
If god wanted to make humans he couldve just made them run on god magic, no need for all this useless and error prone complexity. As it happens it all works exactly the way one would expect from a system created by natural evolution.

>>133495081
According to the Bible, things came into existence as their own kind. They did NOT evolve.

>>133498109
why do you invoke thermodynamics and biology as closed systems but you neglect the existance of the sun?

>>133497844
Your problem is not with evolution. It's with abiogenesis. I offer no explanation there because I don't know what happened because it's difficult thing to figure out.

>>133497970
So because I or he or you any human on earth doesn't know something, that thing can never be known? Nothing is ever discovered, everything that can be known already is? I'm just trying to be clear, is that what you're saying?

>>133497761

A scientific hypothesis does away with the most assumptions. It doesn't add them like it's writing a JRR Tolkien novel. That isn't how it works.

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>>133493782
It doesn't matter if god made you piece by piece or assembled a rube-goldberg machine (the earth and solar system) to do it. God would be immensely more intelligent than anything we could comprehend. You don't need to resist science.

>>133498176
>it's difficult thing to figure out.
that means god did it, didn't you know?

>>133498126
So? Why are you treating a history book like a science book?

>>133494775
Evolution is a theory based on the observable world around us you dumb fuck. Religion is people making up stories to try to make themselves feel better about the harsh nature of the universe.

>>133493993
Don't you get that's how we feel about atheists?

>>133498248
why are you taking life and scientific advice from a book written by people who didn't even know how rain worked or didn't know of the existence of microorganisms?

>>133494516

They are 2 exit holes where else should it have been? now the anus under the nose then we can agree stupid design

>>133498294
pretty much this

>>133498312
there is 0 evidence for any religion

>>133493782
if god was intelligent he would have given women penises so they didnt have to depend on the patriarchy

but god is intelligent, so does that mean men are actually women?

am i a women?

>>133498220
This. The argument is that, when backed into a corner, I'll label what I don't know or understand "God" and be done with it.
>>133498322
Wrong replier, read my ID!

>>133498109
LEL, you think Boltzmann is high school biology?

Holy shit you are an adorable snowflake.

>>133498248
In what way is the Bible a history book? It's supposed to give information about our reality and the world around us, and God and Jesus. It provides explanations for all of this, just like your "science" book.

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>>133497810
Amen my cheesefaced friend.

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>Creationists

>>133497847

So in other words an organism that rules the earth and is in space is bad design.... Did you dad beat you as a kid, or do you just have no respect for him.

I'll give you 20k in bitcoin if you can design a better biological creature in DNA from scratch. Ohhh that's right - you can't do that. In fact you have no fucking clue of what you're talking about.

I love how on one hand evolutionist talk about how great nature is, and the second you bring up design they all of a sudden remember in 2nd grade about tonsils, and other things they don't fully understand.

Up until about 8 years ago they though the appendix was useless -- turns out it's literally a DNA reboot disk for when the body is dying.. Huh, who would of thunk it.

>>133497116
I believe you have issues with it because you are not even bothering to try and understand. Much like some high school wimp that yells "But I'm not good at math!" and proceeds to not even try to comprehend what is being told.

If Intelligent Design is true, then why are animals full of sub-optimal design?
Example: The recurrent laryngeal nerve.

>>133493782
>How is intelligent design not true?
I think you're missing the point. It, like Neo-Darwinism, is a model to explain SOME aspects of nature. It's not a matter of either of them being "right." It's simply a question of how well they explain the facts in a given instance. The questions that follow ID are: Who or what designed this organism? What else did that designer make? Where is that designer now? Where did that designer come from?

ID is just scratching the surface of a far deeper mystery, assuming it applies in any instances.

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>>133495073
(((billions of years)))

>>133498328
I guess you never saw "wrong hole" videos, then you'd understand why it's not exactly intelligent design. Unless of course you don't think anal sex is absolutely disgusting.

>>133498070
>flag

>compendium of IRL shit posting on an international and scientific level

This checks out

>in our eyes the light sensitive cells are behind the blood vessels rather than in front, like in squid which have better eyesight
>in our intestines there's a dead-end cavity which can spontaneously get blocked, inflamed and fucking kill you
>you may have a few extra teeth which develop years after you already have a perfectly fine set of teeth. these extra teeth generally have too little room to develop normally, impact, maybe even damage your already existing teeth and serve no purpose other than making your life miserable

>>133498433
So it's an encyclopedia? Why it it written like a novel or book of poems then?

Don't give me "you just have to read into the meanings". How can the meanings even truly exist after being passed through so many languages over 2000 years?

>>133493993
/thread

>>133493782
Everyone who studies DNA comes to the conclusion that evolution is stupid.

>>133498501
don't ignore my question, faggot

you invoked thermodynamics and called biology a closed system where entropy should increase but you neglected the gigantic amount of energy harvested by life from the sun. why did you do this? it's very intellectually dishonest

>>133493782
Because in reality its not intelligent design its actually "good enough to pass on genes" design.
Or to make it more obvious what purpose do male nipples provide or that your windpipe goes through a fucking loop (happened when we learned to walk on two legs)

>>133497946
>you're so wrong here it hurts. there are transitional fossils everywhere. you're just outright lying here to try to win an argument

Ok, simple then. Post evidence... It's that easy right? I mean there has been millions of different animals on earth - surely there should be multiples of that number do to the random nature correct?

>WHAT IS THE SUN

So the sun is our update programmer?

Do you comprehend what I said?

>jesus christ you're stupid and all of your arguments have been destroyed in the 1980s

What can I say about this... Nothing.

>>133498633
>Everyone who studies DNA comes to the conclusion that evolution is stupid.
I study DNA and I know many other researchers and you're wrong.

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>>133498603
The Bible is The Lord's true word.

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Poland sucks.

>>133494999
>it dosnt have a theory, it is not even wrong
That assertion is clearly incorrect. It is a testable hypothesis.

>>133498573
oh shit, here comes the flat earth and muh satan and sheeeit... as if this thread wasn't filled with enough bullshit already

>>133493782
It is true

Atheism is for degenerates to justify their sinful ways. It's akin to sticking your head in the sand.

>>133498594
Gut flora paradise and humans used to lose way, way more teeth. Can't address that shitty retina though, but I'm sure there was some pressure or lack thereof that caused it.

>>133498583

You must be a virgin or retarded in a normal relation ship you dont go in the wrong hole with sex

>>133498764
No, it's not. Explain such a test.

>>133493782
Because the odds of something to complex and advanced as DNA happening by chance are as good as the chance a tree will grow in to a Victorian era carved dresser, complete with drawers.

>>133498715
>So the sun is our update programmer?
>Do you comprehend what I said?
yes. you called biology a closed system but you neglect the fact that life gets its energy from the sun and is thus not a closed system. you mentioned energy, not programming. stop trying to obfuscate your non-arguments

>Post evidence
homo habilis.

>>133498718
I know rule number 1 is never to argue with flat earthers, but still, what makes you think that's true?

>>133498667
Because the sun can't code - did you assume by energy I mean literally energy? What I meant by that was input - as in new genes require MORE, and NEWER code. Just as a program that has errors needs a coder to sit there and go through it. Biology doesn't have that ability. It only has the ability to fix the system it came with.

>>133498603
It's not an encyclopedia. The Bible contains plain explanations for natural phenomena and reality, but also contains stories that teach morality and history and information about God's laws, salvation, etc. The Bible is based on ancient manuscripts that are 99.9% identical, so we know that the Bible is the true word of God.

>>133493782
intelligent design is the new dominant theory for most scientists.

>macro evolution is literally fucking retarded af and has NEVER been observed nor will ever be

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>(((intelligent))) design

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>>133498718
>2000 year old book that has been translated and retranslated to hell and back is infallible

>>133498718
herp de derp de tiddly diddly derpe dum

>>133498919
>Because the sun can't code
>what is natural selection
are you scientifically illiterate?

>>133498950
>intelligent design is the new dominant theory for most scientists.
wrong.

>>133498950
>retarded af

Thanks for clearing it up. You sure sound like you are a smart man.

>>133498881
It's still a possibility.

>>133498929
So nothing has been learned since then? How are we communicating right now?

Or were the information for building electricity, computers, internet, etc. all in there?

>>133498210
From a scientific standpoint my argument is falsifiable. The core axiom is:

1. Simulation of intelligent life is possible

If such a thing is true, then it is more probable that we live in a simulation than not. If it is false, then we are certainly not in a simulation. I just made up a sequence of events in which the possibility of an actual God can exist, how our creators came about is something we can't really figure out, or at least I can't conceive of a way just yet.

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>>133498718
>Evidence that faggot man wrote all of the bible with all of his misunderstandings of reality thrown in.

Let me guess, all space missions are faked, satellites are fake. and the Earth is flat?

>>133498812
Atheists always use the argument, "I can't think of a good reason this is designed this way, therefore there is no good reason it is designed this way, therefore there is no designer."

I don't know the answer about the cephalopod eye either. Would need to read further.

>>133495081
>I don't understand why you think evolution is made up.
That's a straw man. Many of us in the sciences recognize that it fails in certain key areas. Overall it may be correct, but there are some weaknesses. For instance, there are bacteria that reproduce every twenty minutes. We have taken them and placed them in a mutating, environmentally selective situation, waited ENORMOUS numbers of generations, and evolution has FAILED TO PRODUCE A NEW SPECIES. Something is wrong. Species will only distort about so far and then they stop. They won't cross that boundary to being a new species, and the "give it more time" argument doesn't work with the bacteria.

So what is that missing piece? And I'm not saying I know what it is, but the evolutionists are so dogmatic that they will not admit something is wrong with their model. It does not work. The fossil record should be overflowing with intermediate forms, but they are exceedingly rare. Why is that? They won't let us ask.

I really, genuinely want to know.

>>133498950
>Something that takes longer than the entirety of human evolution hasn't been observed yet.
No shit, how could it have been?? Think about what you're implying before you post.

>>133499179
I said there IS a good reason, that I don't know about. Read what I type.

>>133498898
Which is a hell of a lot more probably than some timeless space dude making everything. How did god come to be? Is god an atheist?

>>133495727
If he is a christian and also a scientist thats fine. That doesnt mean the mountain of evidence for evolution isnt there.

>>133493782
>Life is too complex for me to understand, therefore jew god

>>133499179
>Atheists always use the argument
No we don't. You do in your strawman all atheists are one person arguments.

>>133499121
Of course we have learned new things since the Bible was written. I thought we were talking about evolution, which the Bible addresses and clearly talks about. It claims that all life and creatures were created as their own kinds, and did not evolve from other organisms. It doesn't talk about electricity, internet and computers as far as I'm aware.

>>133499236
>FAILED TO PRODUCE A NEW SPECIES
Someone clearly has not googled "observed instances of speciation".

>>133499110

No

>>133495646
>if it is, then the designer is a retard
That might well be. ID does not assume the designer is "God." Contrary to the claims of Neo-Darwinist straw man arguments, ID is not a religion. It's just a scientific model that may or may not fit some situations.

The reactionary nature of the Neo-Darwinist response shows that they are more religious in many cases than ID proponents are.

>>133499292
I'm not arguing with you.

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>>133499156
>Let me guess, all space missions are faked, satellites are fake. and the Earth is flat?
Yes. NASA is Fake News and should be shut down.

>>133499327
Isnt it prayer time down at the mosque?

>>133494775
Evolution offers plenty of concrete explanations, the fact you are too stupid to grasp them doesn't mean they don't exist.

>>133495266
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
Yes it did.
We know "how" since a long time already now, the question we can't answer and will probably never be able to as humans is "why".

>>133499412
I'll be less shorthand about it next time. It's too easy to bundle everyone up on pol

>>133498919
> Biology doesn't have that ability.
Not at all, see genetic engineering. We can already edit genes, this is a result of biological evolution culminating into sapience.

>>133499455
You dont understand, the premise of intelligent design is that the being that made it did so intelligently. The fact that we can look at biology and see horribly structured mechanisms and retardedly inefficient systems shows that life was not guided in its design by an all knowing, or even partially knowing hand

>>133499508
>not knowing it's ineffective to launch rockets straight up
>buying into the flat earth psy op
just fucking end your miserable life

>>133499236
Please, please understand me when I say this. We don't know everything. We won't for a long, long time, if we ever even will.

Just because YOU or ME or ANYONE ELSE does not understand something doesn't mean we can just make up an answer. If evolution is overall correct, and you find a few small observations that don't jive with it, it is YOU that doesn't understand something. Maybe the theory of evolution will be updated slightly when you figure out why those observations are the way they are, but it in no way means that the rest of evolution is garbage.

Please understand that we don't know everything so we can't give you every explanation yet. We've given you so, so many explanations that ARE valid.

>>133499425
Then, there's nothing stated in the bible that we later figured out was wrong? Literally nothing?

>>133499474
Sorry, got a little hot.

>>133493993
All human belief if fairiy tale. Within us believing in evolution is no different then believing in intelligent design. I think evolution happened but I don't pretend my belief ends up being different and only helps if it can benefit through application. Science is a religion and an ideology. Its just that it takes human flaws into account and loops upon itself never allowing anything to be beyond scrutiny.

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Stars and planets are lights on the firmament not objects in outer space.

Genesis 1:14-15
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Real Stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ukxGhX0w0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afjcaJpMWyc

Just watch this its only 2 mins to see how its not really intelligent design but just design thats good enough to spawn another generation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oLLzmNmrfo

Watch the full evo playlist if you are getting interested;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_jyHp3bmEw

>>133498901
>yes. you called biology a closed system but you neglect the fact that life gets its energy from the sun and is thus not a closed system.

You're sort of right, but you fall apart at the point that you don't understand what a closed system is.

Is a computer a closed system it get's it's power from electricity which is outside it?

I'm going to assume you don't think the earth is a closed system either?

>>133499508
The irony considering I've actually viewed the ISS through a telescope before.

I'm sorry your genetic line failed you so horribly.

>>133499572
From what I remember they discovered that Urey Miller did not actually resemble early earth conditions. There might be one experiment that does though not sure.

>>133499431
>Someone clearly has not googled "observed instances of speciation".
Someone has clearly not googled "observed instances of speciation debunked."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You're just willingly believing your own religion.

https://evolutionnews.org/2016/07/alleged_instanc/

>>133499509
Coming from America? There are more mosques and muslims per capita in your country.

>>133499236
The fossil record is not some infallible bible of dead species, idiot. It's pure fucking luck that we have ANY fossils at all. Nobody was out there sticking dead shit in mud, it was and is pure chance that any animal was unfortunate enough to entomb itself.

There is NO reason the fossil record "should" include those things you want, that's not how it works.

>>133499832
It is remarkably fast, the bugger, but it is nice to see it tracking through a dark sky at 4am in the mountains. A pale white dot. Laughing at creationists from above.

Intelligent design as it's understood by a deeply religious but well educated scientist VS how it's promulgated by scientifically illiterate flat earth YouTube educated retards are different things.

Sorry ID cucks, but you aren't articulate or informed enough about the things you speak of.

>>133499768
Sure. But what reason do you have to believe evolution? Mountains of evidence that we've found in the last few hundred years. What reason do you have to believe ID? The words of people that lived thousands of years ago, that keep being passed around.

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>>133499892
Wrong

>>133500000
>digits
no

>>133493782
The real question is why is pol in general so skeptical but when it comes to evolution they won't even investigate other possible arguments.

>>133499737
It could make sense if humans themselves simulate humans. They would have to make them humans with all their imperfections.

>>133493782
>How is intelligent design not true?

then why do we eat through the same hole we breath and reproduce tgrough the same hole we piss?

>also pimples
why would god greate pimples if he wasnt a complete retard

>>133499892
it's hard to beat sweden but the US is a candidate

>>133499935
'Its just a hologram reflecting off the firmament bro.'

I'm waiting for it.

>>133499824
>I'm going to assume you don't think the earth is a closed system either?
it's not because it gets energy from the sun, among other things

>>133499778
what happens if someone decides to send nukes up to the firmament and detonates them?

>>133499764
>Just because YOU or ME or ANYONE ELSE does not understand something doesn't mean we can just make up an answer.

And like you, I'm not saying I know the answer either. I'm just saying something is wrong with evolution. I don't know what. Overall I think it's an elegant idea, but something is still wrong.

ID is not "making up an answer." Dogs were, for the most part, DESIGNED BY HUMAN BEINGS. That is, intelligent designers, starting well over ten thousand years ago, artificially selected them to create the forms we see today.

CAN YOU DETECT THAT?

Do you see how ID is indeed a valid scientific viewpoint. Intelligent Design has indeed happened on earth. Being able to detect it would be a valuable attribute of science. What if we aren't the only intelligent designers here?

>>133499875
William Dembski was laughed out of court for this, as he would not testify under oath.
He tried to debunk 2 species, and was presented with literature on thousands. Turns out, he could not even debunk one. Stop larping, you can't be this dumb.

>>133500084
Wow. A camera doesn't have focus on an object light-years away? Fascinating.

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>>133500084
There is more evidence of The Firmament than there is of a (((spherical Earth)))

>>133493782
Intelligent design is flawed in the premise that mutations are driven by some external force for an intended outcome.

But evidence supports that genetic mutations are entirely randomized and the ones that pass on are ones that fit inside the parameters of the environment in "natural selection".

Of course, many people who argue "secular evolution" get it completely wrong, too.

t. worked on genetic engineering research in university

>>133497857
the creator of laws of the universe isn't bound by those laws aboboi

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>>133500122
>through* create*

>>133499764
>Then, there's nothing stated in the bible that we later figured out was wrong? Literally nothing?
Yes, that is correct. The Bible is correct because it was literally written by the creator of the universe. As far as I'm aware, nothing that the Bible teaches has been "disproven".

>>133500214
>Intelligent Design has indeed happened on earth
[citation needed]

>>133500084
>he doesn't know what oxygen does to light
>has clearly never tried peering through the night before

What you are looking at is a very shitty astronomer with a very out of focus video.

>>133498501
>So in other words an organism that rules the earth and is in space is bad design
I can use a hammer to open a door, but that doesn't mean there aren't better options. Like using the knob.

What I'm really getting at is that in "designing" humans, we have a lot of glaring errors that would have been easily prevented given any amount of foresight; errors that make sense in other animals that aren't human.

>I'll give you 20k in bitcoin if you can design a better biological creature in DNA from scratch
Give me a few billion years, I'll be happy to take a shot at it.

>Up until about 8 years ago they though the appendix was useless -- turns out it's literally a DNA reboot disk for when the body is dying.. Huh, who would of thunk it.
Wow, gee whiz, that's almost as exciting and useful as being able to eat uncooked food when you're starving in the woods.

A human's appendix is far more useless than other animals. Why is that the case for God's chosen?

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>>133500185
they already tried it was called operation fishbowl

>>133493782
>>133493782
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean someone smarter than you invented it.

>>133494448
Yep, typical reddit. I bet halfback these people don't even know what image I posted

>>133500281
>why a rainbow is shaped like a dome
it's because of your perspective. they're actually circular

>>133499911
>The fossil record is not some infallible bible of dead species, idiot. It's pure fucking luck that we have ANY fossils at all.
That's a bullshit excuse. Evolution is supposed to be continuous. We know perfectly well what fraction of fossils we find should be transitional forms and we aren't seeing anywhere near that many. Something is wrong and the Neo-Darwinists, like you, start shrieking the second someone points out this reality to them. It is their religion.

Again, I'm not saying evolution is crap. I'm saying we're missing something important.

>>133500122
>Zork lets simulate a planet with a bunch of bipeds that eat and breathe through the same hole, it'll be hilarious

>>133500077
Probably because its happenign right now with us and all around us.
70 years ago basically no one could drink milk from cows. We now have issues with virus because they have such a short lifespan that they evolve so fast and become immune.
Even humans with all the comforts still evolve people in africa have a much higher resistance to aids than westerners.
And the list goes on and on. Not to mention that nothing in nature could be explained literally nothing without evolution and natural selection.

>>133500281
>that picture
shit-tier arguments, bruh

also, what makes you think the flat earth isn't a psy op?

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>>133500423
>Americans are mouth-breathers
You heard it here folks!

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Stop taking the christcucks' bait.

>>133495081
Science > Books written by sandniggers

>>133500215
>William Dembski was laughed out of court for this, as he would not testify under oath.
Now you've switched to ad hominem fallacies. Why is that? Did I tread on your religion?

>>133500547
i am torn between baiting and stupid because he keeps invoking thermodynamics and calling biology and earth closed systems

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Also why are people arguing about whether evolution is real or not? Fucking lmao

>>133499737
Choas and order. Light and dark. Good and evil. As you see shitty genes and mutations are a part of the process. I don't see how you've disproven some kind of sentience beyond our grasp by pointing out that there is bad and worthless aspects of the natural order.

>>133496083
>>133496292
>>133496303

God is never discussed as the kind of being that had a beginning. Always as eternal, existing necessarily. Sorry for being an edgy fag about it.

>>133493782
>How do you prove a negative /pol?
Burden of proof you fucking mong.

>Slide thread
This shit isn't even politcs

>>133500214
>I don't know what. Overall I think it's an elegant idea, but something is still wrong.
It's great that you have a feeling, but feelings can't be proven or disproven. Use your words, express your thoughts and ideas. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a part of science too!

>Dogs were, for the most part, DESIGNED BY HUMAN BEINGS. That is, intelligent designers, starting well over ten thousand years ago, artificially selected them to create the forms we see today.
Nobody disputes that artificial selection exists. How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?

How can you accept that we humans, a powerful force of nature, selected dogs to change them but fail to accept that nature itself, a more powerful force than us (because we are part of it) selected all life to change it?

>>133500350
I don't know how to respond.

>>133500617
>earth
>closed system

what is the sun?

>>133500372
no evidence it ever touched or even got near the firmament. You'd assume the firmament is higher up than just a mere 80 km, considering the size of the earth if it's flat.

>>133500617
>earth is a closed system
Wait what? Has a motherfucker ever looked up at the sun?

>biology is a system than can be closed
Whew, I'm losing IQ here.

>>133500414
>Evolution is supposed to be continuous
It is, but punctuated equilibrium still occurs.

Transitions are often rapid and shortlived. Fewer organisms/duration means lower chance of fossil formation.

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>>133500350
>nothing that the Bible teaches has been "disproven".
tip top lelling kek

>>133500355
>[citation needed]
If you're too fucking stupid to be aware of artificial selection in animals by human beings, I really can't help you. Why would anyone need a citation for this? What a fucking retard! Cows, sheep, pigs, grains, vegetables, all manner of species are artificially selected by humans.

>>133493993
MickeyMouselitmeme.jpg

>>133500604
William Dembski lied about all of this in court. This is not an ad hominem. When pressed on it, he could not produce evidence even against a single speciation event (drosilla was his choice back then)

>>133500414
The solution is simple really, we just need to emulate a planet that replicates Earth's conditions and environment sufficiently and then just let it run and see if life comes about and if intelligent beings come about.

>>133500786
that's artificial selection, not intelligent design. nice false equivalence

>>133500786
Selective breeding is not the same thing as intelligent design.

It still involves the development of new organisms via observable and replicatable methods.

>>133500414
>transitional forms

Everything is a transitional form, you stupid fuck.

>>133500763
There are no contradictions in the Bible. Not that I expect an atheist to be able to read and understand the Bible, since you literally don't want to listen to the word of God.

>>133500687
>I don't know how to respond.
Excuse me?

Evolution is the genetic equivalent of a river cutting through a canyon; over millions of years it finds a way to accomplish its task. It's easy to view it as something created, but the reality is even more beautiful

>>133500786
pointing to a few select species that man has evolved alongside and altered to benifit us doesnt proove intelegent design

it just prooves that humans are GOAT

>>133500975
>no contradictions in the bible

Bait confirmed. Even christcuck can't be this stupid.

>>133500687
>It's great that you have a feeling...
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I was talking about the OBJECTIVE FAILURE of the fossil record to confirm the Neo-Darwinist model, and you are pretending I'm having a "feeling." This kind of dishonesty is a big part of the problem with Neo-Darwinists. It is their RELIGION and when someone points out a minor flaw, they go berserk.

>How can you accept that we humans, a powerful force of nature, selected dogs to change them but fail to accept that nature itself, a more powerful force than us (because we are part of it) selected all life to change it?
We were not able to turn them into a new species. I guess you missed that part.

>>133493782
who gives a shit? we're not going to find evidence of god with a microscope or a telescope.

>inb4 yes but if look closer...

File: behind sun AND moon.png (1MB, 756x1314px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 756x1314px

>>133500725
rocket hits the firmament!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAcp3BFBYw4

>>133500975
You are either deluded or you are a liar. Either way, you are wrong and apparently trying to explain that to you is pointless.

>>133501058
>We were not able to turn them into a new species. I guess you missed that part.

Yes we can. Separate two populations of dogs. Inter-breed them enough and eventually they won't be able to breed with another population of dogs and produce viable offspring.

Fucking speciation. Please crack open a fucking bio textbook.

>>133500975
you're bait, i've decided.

>>133495379
>how evolution works
1. One or more reproducing organisms exist in an environment with finite resources.
2. Due to a copying error or mutation during reproduction, an organism results that is in some manner different than its competitors
3. The different organism's difference makes it better able to reproduce itself. This can be from the ability to make better use of the finite resources in its environment, to have more offspring, to kill other organisms, or literally any other miniscule "advantage". We're working on a timescale of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years, so small advantages add up.
4. The organism has now out-reproduced its competitors, and its "different" trait has become dominant and widespread.
5. This is the new standard form of that organism, so it has "evolved".

This applies to bacteria, mammals, whatever the fuck. And it applies to the first "life-form", which was probably some unbelievably improbable arrangement of molecules that formed in the primordial soup and was probably just a simple machine that replicated itself from molecules it encountered.

Please self eliminate from the gene pool OP.

>>133499768
>Science is a religion and an ideology.
No its not, how could you possibly think that?

>>133501058
Stop. Address my content, not my stupid attacks on your character.

I say again: nobody disputes that artificial selection exists. How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?

>We were not able to turn them into a new species. I guess you missed that part.
Because we couldn't do it (ie we lacked the power to do it), that means it can't be done by nature, even though nature is necessarily more powerful than us? What?

>>133500740
>It is, but punctuated equilibrium still occurs.
>Transitions are often rapid and shortlived. Fewer organisms/duration means lower chance of fossil formation.
Seems a bit artificial, doesn't it? The earth has always had new environments to expand into. Population pressures have always been there. All the ingredients of evolution have been there all the time. Why don't we see CONTINUOUS evolution. It's almost as if "punctuated equilibrium" is an ad-hoc explanation made up by Neo-Darwinists DERIVED FROM THE FAILURE OF THE FOSSIL RECORD TO CONFIRM THEIR MODEL rather than predictive of it.

You do understand the difference, right? They didn't predict punctuated equilibrium and then find evidence in the fossils. Their model failed dismally when they examined the fossils, so they made up punctuated equilibrium to continue claiming nothing was wrong with their failed model. That's not science.

This thread is finished. The average person here didn't even pay attention in high school.

>>133500975
The Bible is simply a serious of writings designated as canon by a bunch of bishops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The fact that there wasn't unanimous agreement, shows that the Bible in it's current form isn't God's word. Is democracy enough to designate something as God's will?

>Thereupon, the debate about Arius and church doctrine began. "The emperor gave patient attention to the speeches of both parties" and "deferred" to the decision of the bishops.[71] The bishops first pronounced Arius' teachings to be anathema, formulating the creed as a statement of correct doctrine. When Arius and two followers refused to agree, the bishops pronounced clerical judgement by excommunicating them from the Church. Respecting the clerical decision, and seeing the threat of continued unrest, Constantine also pronounced civil judgement, banishing them into exile. This was the beginning of the practice of using secular power to establish doctrinal orthodoxy within Christianity, an example followed by all later Christian emperors, which led to a circle of Christian violence, and of Christian resistance couched in terms of martyrdom.[72]

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>>133501043
>>133501253
If the Bible contained contradictions it would not be the Word of God, because the Word of God is perfect and true. I understand that you're not gonna give me any examples of contradictions because you don't know the Bible and don't have a leg to stand on.

>>133501092
Same with you.

>>133501625
>implying creationists finished, let alone went to high school

>>133501353
some organism also reproduce extremly quickly and have many offspring. with the ammount of life thats been on earth bio diversity is a given. everything also wprks off one another. when theres a neich that needs to be filled, something will eventually filp that need. if an animal that eats leaves one a tall tree goes extinct, something will evolve to replace it.

circle of life and all that gay shit

>>133501670
>If the Bible contained contradictions it would not be the Word of God, because the Word of God is perfect and true. I understand that you're not gonna give me any examples of contradictions because you don't know the Bible and don't have a leg to stand on.
Do you really believe this? Or are you trolling? I don't want to believe that you believe it, it's depressing.

>>133501078
>what is a parachute
it would have been crushed if it hit any sort of an obstacle you absolute retard

>>133501739
>english/10 would spell again*

>>133500883
>that's artificial selection, not intelligent design.
I think you missed the point. We INTELLIGENTLY SELECTED to create those varieties of C. lupus. Without us, and without our intelligence, they would not exist.

CAN YOU DETECT THAT? Nope. We need a science that can. ID is an excellent candidate for that.

Again, your over-reaction to my modest suggestion is indicative of Neo-Darwinism being your RELIGION. You freak out when someone points out any bug in it, no matter how slight. This is an emotional reaction.

>>133501078
>>133501531
>>133501645

Christcucks are a special brand of stupid.

>>133501670
https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

>>133501739
ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER

DO YOU SPEAK IT

>>133501881
Respond to me you fuck.

I say again AGAIN: nobody disputes that artificial selection exists. How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that??????

Don't you dare fag out before this thread dies.

>>133501531
>Their model failed dismally when they examined the fossils, so they made up punctuated equilibrium to continue claiming nothing was wrong with their failed model. That's not science.
What?

But that's EXACTLY what science is.
Recognizing flaws in a model, incorporating observed phenomenon, and adapting accordingly.

Furthermore, while clines are good for creating diversity in a population, they are rarely sufficient for instigating speciation. Islands (and I use that in the loosest biological sense) serve far greater to instigate genetic change, which partly is why transitions are less apparent. When evolution occurs, the changes can and do rapidly overtake a population.

>>133494235
Fractals

>>133501670
well of course it isn't the word of god, it was written by men, for men. Why can't you understand this? Denying the contradictions in it won't get you anywhere I think.

>>133500962
>Everything is a transitional form, you stupid fuck.
You should be arguing with your compatriots in this thread who have repeatedly insisted that, as the fossil record shows, what you claim is not true. Species remain static for enormous periods of time. Apparently they are not evolving. We have almost zero transitional fossils. Several claimed transitional fossils are highly dubious, where so much of the example is missing that Neo-Darwinists have taken great creative liberty in assuming the nature of the parts we don't see.

>>133501670
the first two fucking chapters of genesis contain DIRECTLY contradictory information

Why? Maybe the writers put those two chapters next to each other, at the beginning, to let you know to take it all in context and not literally.

>>133501645
What about the First Council? Of course there are disagreements about biblical doctrine, no one denies that. I don't think democracy can decide the Word of God, obviously... I'm saying that we should draw our knowledge from the Bible and base our opinions on that. If you have one opinion based on your reading of the Bible, that's fine, and I can have mine.

>>133501945
What does this mean?

>>133493782
Look up RuBisCo and realize god must have been drinking when he made plants

https://cambridgecapp.wordpress.com/improving-photosynthesis/rubisco/

>>133499508
Play some KSP you utter moron

>>133501670
The Bible as you know it is a culmination of a works designated as "Biblical canon" as opposed to "Biblical apocrypha". Such distinctions vary among Christian sects. Thus, Christianity is a religion in which aggregate personal opinion can designate something as word of God or not. Once Rome made Christianity it's own state religion, all competing sects of Christianity at the time were wiped out. So what exactly do you claim to be word of God? Which Bible is word of God? How do you know that specific Bible is word of God and not another Bible?

>>133502262
No wait, the other thing. Tedious.

>>133499508
>not understanding basic rocketry

Come the fuck on, man.

>>133501773
OF COURSE. Give me a "contradiction" in the Bible and I'll prove to you that it's not a contradiction because there are no contradictions in the Bible.

>>133502058
So you're not gonna give me a contradiction? It was not written by men, but it was written FOR men, by God, and copied by men throughout the ages. The New Testament is the best preserved ancient text in human history. It's accuracy between manuscripts is miraculous, and it's not a coincidence that the Bible teaches that the word of God is pure and will not be destroyed.

>>133502094
How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?
>How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?
How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?
>How do you make the leap from "we designed dogs" to "an infinitely intelligent and power being designed us"? What reason do you have to think that?

>>133502464
Oh. You are being satirical. Sorry, I just got it.

>>133501249
>Yes we can. Separate two populations of dogs. Inter-breed them enough and eventually they won't be able to breed with another population of dogs and produce viable offspring.
You're saying it can be done, but it never has been done. If someone had successfully forced a dog to evolve into a cat, I would not be here arguing what I'm arguing.

Of course because you haven't read what I wrote above, you will claim, "we just need more time," but I pointed out that we have tried this with species that breed much faster, like insects and bacteria, and we have yet to evolve them into new species.

Something is wrong with evolution and getting a Neo-Darwinist to have an honest conversation about that is well-nigh impossible, as the responses above indicate. I'm here arguing based on evidence and reasoning, and most of the replies I get are Neo-Darwinist religious zealots basically shrieking that I'm a creationist. Bullshit! Let's talk about the actual evidence. Transitional fossils are rare and they should not be. The question is why.

>>133502464
>Give me a "contradiction" in the Bible and I'll prove to you that it's not a contradiction because there are no contradictions in the Bible.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
Pick one.